bumbled-bees

[bumbled-bees]

I don’t know if you answered this question or similar like it. Based on what you know, do you think Lily is anti-intellectual?

Answered! :)

[bumbled-bees]

Do you thinks there's a connection to Lily Orchard's lack of curiosity and the fact that she sees no problem with spoiling shows and movies for others?

Absolutely — and this is one of those behaviors that seems small on the surface, but reveals a lot about how Lily approaches media, discussion, and other people.

Spoiling shows or movies without warning, as Lily often does, shows a fundamental lack of consideration for the audience’s experience. And when that’s paired with her apparent lack of curiosity, it starts to make a lot more sense. Curiosity naturally makes someone interested in how stories unfold — it makes them value mystery, surprise, and thematic build-up. But Lily has demonstrated, time and again, that she views stories more as tools for moral messaging or vehicles for her own opinions than as experiences meant to be enjoyed or explored.

If you believe you already know everything worth knowing about a piece of media — or if you think your interpretation is the only one that matters — spoilers don’t seem like a big deal. In that view, the ending of a story is just a data point to wield, not something to preserve for emotional or narrative impact. And more importantly, the audience’s feelings about spoilers become irrelevant. If she’s not curious about how others might receive a story, or how they might emotionally engage with it, then their preferences don’t register.

[bumbled-bees]

who how long is the rules list for Lily's discord server? Are there any very ridiculous rules in that list?

I don't remember off the top of my head but I'm sure someone has it somewhere.

[bumbled-bees]

Would asking about why longtime/hardcore fans stay with lily fall into talking about her inner circle? Not asking for specifics on certain people, just wondering why those fans in general stick around.

Not the unknowing youtube crowd who sees Lily's polished version, but the server and twitch members who have seen her poor behavior and even been on the recieveing end of some of the worst of it. I can't imagine sticking around someone who is just that rude in general, has gone on record numerous times to say she hates her fanbase, and probably a bunch of other stuff those deeper in the trenches than I was could shine a light on.

This is definitely a question that starts to toe the line of "inner circle" talk, but I think it's worth answering as long as we keep it general and grounded in patterns, not people. So I’m going to speak from personal experience and from patterns I witnessed when I was on the inside, while being careful not to put words in anyone’s mouth.

To understand why some longtime fans stick around Lily despite seeing (and sometimes experiencing) her most toxic behavior firsthand, you have to recognize the emotional architecture of her spaces. The rules, the tone, the way she carries herself — they all work together to gradually reframe your sense of what’s acceptable.

First is normalization. The more time you spend in Lily’s community, the more her volatility and abrasiveness start to feel like background noise. It stops being surprising when she snaps at people, or condescends to them, or launches into a tirade over what seems like a minor disagreement. You start to rationalize it: She’s just blunt. She’s tired of explaining herself. That person was being annoying. And you internalize the idea that if Lily goes off on someone, it’s not because she overreacted — it’s because they screwed up. That belief is reinforced constantly by the structure of the space: her mods, her rules, her regulars who know how to navigate her moods and often echo her responses like a chorus. Once you're in the middle of it, it stops feeling dysfunctional. It just feels normal.

Then there’s the sunk cost factor. People who’ve followed Lily for years have often invested a lot into her — not just in terms of time or money, but emotionally. They’ve connected with her on parasocial terms. Sometimes even deeper than that, and actual friendships form. They’ve taken her advice to heart. Many have grown up watching her content. When that’s your starting point, realizing she’s not who you thought — or that she might be actively harming people — is painful. It’s cognitively dissonant. You don’t want to admit that the person you trusted and maybe even admired is capable of causing the kind of harm you’d condemn in anyone else. So you justify it, or look away, or dig your heels in deeper, because the alternative is confronting a really painful truth: that you put your faith in someone who didn’t deserve it. And if you’re already vulnerable — already dealing with trauma, rejection, or a need for community — that’s an even harder leap to make.

And yes, fear plays a role. Lily’s communities are not psychologically safe spaces. If you challenge her, if you question the wrong thing, if you phrase something in a way she doesn’t like, you’re liable to be mocked, scolded, or banned. You learn very quickly what the acceptable range of expression is — and it’s narrow. I watched people tiptoe around her in real time, trying to stay on her good side. And I get it. You see what happens to the people who cross a line. It’s often public, it’s often humiliating, and nobody steps in to defend you. Why would they? They don’t want to be next. And when you’re afraid of being cast out of the only community you feel connected to, sometimes it feels safer to just stay quiet and go along with it.

There’s also identity reinforcement. Lily cultivates a space that makes you feel smarter or more morally correct just for agreeing with her. Her brand is steeped in confidence and absolutism: “If you disagree with me, you’re wrong.” It’s seductive, especially if you’re young or uncertain or trying to find your footing in the world. And once you internalize her worldview, any criticism can start to feel like a personal attack — not just on her, but on you. So even when the red flags start piling up, there’s a strong incentive to discredit the critics rather than engage with the criticism.

Ultimately, it’s about control. Lily doesn’t just control the discourse — she controls how people feel about her. She does this through fear, charisma, deflection, and selective affection. You’re either in line, or you’re out. And a lot of people stay in line because the thought of being out — of being painted as a "stalker," a "parasite," or a "bad faith actor" — is scarier than just swallowing your discomfort and sticking around.

I say all of this not to judge anyone who’s still in her orbit. I’ve been there. I understand how someone can get pulled into it and how hard it is to untangle yourself once you’re in. But I do believe it’s important to speak honestly about the environment she creates — not to shame those inside, but to offer clarity and validation for those trying to leave, or even just starting to question.

[bumbled-bees]

You have a lot of thoughts and things to say about the inherent predatory nature of Lily's actions and how she ran her discord, but why do you have nothing to say about how so many responses to her are equally damaging and harmful to potential victims? Why do you ignore when people who are already critical of her are fostering a volatile and hostile environment that dissuades people from leaving?

Because that is not the focus of this blog.

This isn't the first ask of this nature that I've gotten, so let me make this clear now.

My focus is specifically on Lily. Not her critics. Not her inner circle. Lily and Lily alone.

[bumbled-bees]

Why does lily hate apologies so much? I've very rarely seen her do it, most of the time she digs in her heels and asserts that whatever she said was deserved or actually not all that nasty of a thing to say . There was this one time in the discord where she went on a tirade and hurled insults at a server regular for following the rules (the one about not trying to dunk on "stalkers" and just sitting back and "enjoying the show"). Sure, she apologized the next day, albeit a broad apology that wasn't even aimed at the person she hurt. But she then nullified any meaning it had when she made an announcement stating that profuse apologizing would be punished after said server regular had the audacity apologize for angering her.

It's a pattern I've noticed, with the situation I explained above opening my eyes to it. She lashes out at and insults the people who literally pay her rent, gets mad at them for saying sorry, and 999 times outta 1000 refuses to say sorry herself for reasons unbeknownst to me.

I think I was actually there for the Discord tirade you mention! Not only that, if it's what I think you're referencing, I think I was one of the recipients of said tirade.

Around early-mid June of last year? I remember myself and another patron being scolded for "treating her life like a soap opera", and the next morning, a new rule was in place: No excessive apologizing.

Huh. I'd forgotten about that.

Anyway, to answer your question: Lily does have a long, noticeable pattern of avoiding genuine apologies whenever possible. When she does apologize, it’s usually extremely broad, not directed at anyone in particular, and often immediately undercut by her behavior afterward — exactly like the situation you described.

There are a few dynamics at play here. First, apologizing sincerely would mean acknowledging that she actually hurt someone, and that goes against the public image she tries to maintain: that she's always justified, always right, always the most "reasonable" person in any situation. If she admits fault openly, it undermines the authority she works hard to project over her community. Lily’s whole framework is built on maintaining control — and vulnerability threatens that control.

Second, there's the fact that she sees apologies themselves as weakness. You can even see it in how she treats others who apologize: she’ll snap at them, punish them, or accuse them of "making it about themselves." In her mind, to apologize is not an act of accountability, it’s an admission that you've "lost" some kind of personal battle. That's why, even after she lashes out, she often digs in her heels and reframes the situation so that she was the one wronged, or at least justified.

And you're right: it's the people who literally support her financially that she treats like this. People she owes gratitude and care to, and instead she meets them with suspicion, coldness, or outright disdain if they ever so much as inconvenience her emotionally.

Ultimately, Lily treats apologies — whether hers or others' — not as tools for reconciliation or healing, but as weapons in a control game. She demands submission without self-reflection, and that's why you'll almost never see her apologize properly, even when it’s painfully obvious to everyone else that she should.

[bumbled-bees]

(this is a ramble but I promise it goes somewhere) So I used to sit in for Lily's streams, and I was in chat a few times. It's a very weird experience, talking to someone in chat will get you told to stay on topic, disagreeing with what Lily's saying will get your message quietly deleted, and causing too much of a ruckus or being obnoxious like a normal Internet person gets you permabanned. I got banned like 3/4 times, usually for arguing with Lily for too long.

Arguing with her fans in chat is a completely different experience, they have no thoughts of their own they just mimic what Lily says, down to her mannerisms. People like Nooblord or Lexyr especially. It is very fun to poke holes in what Lily's saying because her fans have absolutely no ability to think independently.

But hey her fans get to "hang out" with her, as she ignores most of them, flirts with Lolo, and bans anyone trying to have fun in a way that isn't making cringe Tumblr jokes.

I don't condone bullying, but her fans need people that will be harsh and speak to them like people, not heckin valid small beans. lily treats her entire audience like babies, or peons, so none of them have the confidence to speak up or defend themselves when she treats them like shit.

Yeah, that experience you’re describing sounds very familiar, and honestly it lines up with everything I've seen and everything we've discussed about how Lily runs her spaces.

Her streams — much like her Discord server — are extremely tightly controlled. There's no real room for conversation or normal chat behavior. If you talk about anything not immediately related to what Lily is doing, you get scolded. If you disagree with her, your message gets deleted. If you argue or even just act a little too "rowdy" by normal Internet standards, you're banned. It creates this environment where people are either silent, extremely cautious, or just blindly agreeing with whatever she says.

When it comes to her fans specifically, it's really noticeable how much they mimic her. Same phrases, same tone, same attitudes — because they know that thinking independently is risky. If you don't mirror Lily's opinions back to her, you’re marked as “difficult” and eventually pushed out. So you end up with a group of people who don't really engage critically with her ideas — they just parrot them. And like you said, that makes it very easy to poke holes in the logic, because there’s no real thinking happening, just repetition.

And yeah, Lily herself doesn’t seem to have much real interest in her audience. She’ll pay attention to certain people she likes, but the majority of her chat could vanish and it wouldn’t change how she runs her stream. She wants her streams to be an echo chamber — not a place for genuine interaction.

I really appreciate you adding that note at the end, because I agree: this isn't about bullying or cruelty. It's about recognizing that people deserve to be spoken to like actual human beings, not coddled or infantilized. Lily treats her audience either like nuisances or like helpless children, and that kind of treatment strips people of their ability to stand up for themselves. Sometimes the most respectful thing you can do is to challenge someone — to expect better from them — and Lily's fans have been starved of that kind of respect for a long time.

[bumbled-bees]

Since you used to be in the discord for a hot minute, do you think you can explain why there are so many rules? Most of the servers I've been in just have don't break tos, don't be a dick, and maybe a third thing. But Lily's server just has rules upon rules with sub rules that were, frankly, hard to keep track of and felt like walking on eggshells. Does it have to do with her playbook on controlling her audience?

I've done a post before on Lily's need for control, you can check it out here. I think that's the biggest factor here.

But also, It absolutely ties into the "Lily Playbook" we've been laying out. When I was in her server for that three-month window, it became very clear that the massive pile of rules wasn’t just about structure or safety like it is in most healthy communities. It was about control.

This created an environment where you had to be hyper-vigilant constantly, second-guessing every word you typed. Walking on eggshells is exactly right. It kept people nervous, passive, and eager to please, because at any moment you could be banned for stepping out of line — and "stepping out of line" often just meant "disagreeing" or "being perceived as annoying." It also gave Lily an easy out: if she didn't like you, she could point to some minor "rule violation" and get rid of you without admitting it was personal.

In short, the rules were there to make you easier to control, not to foster a healthy community. It's another classic manipulation tactic: make the environment so exhausting and confusing that people either fall in line or burn out and leave — and the ones who stay are the ones too scared or too brainwashed to challenge anything.

[bumbled-bees]

How come you once claimed you were "staying out of this shit", but then you show up here actually not "staying out of this shit"? Explain?

In all honesty, fair question.

I did say that.

The reason I initially claimed I was "staying out of this shit" is because I wanted to distance myself from the drama that surrounded both Lily and the crit community at the time. It was emotionally draining, and I didn’t want to get caught up in endless back-and-forths or pointless conflict. It's also why this blog was kept anonymous for most of its life.

However, after some time reflecting on everything, I realized that while I didn’t want to engage in drama, there was still a lot of important context and patterns that needed to be addressed. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that analyzing Lily’s behavior and sharing what I’d learned, from being so close to her space, could actually help people avoid falling into similar situations. The focus has always been on understanding how she operates, not just calling her out for the sake of drama.

So, I guess I came back to this space because I’ve shifted away from the chaos and have focused on building something preventative, based on my own experience.

[bumbled-bees]

Sorry, I normally don't feed the trolls but that was... genuinely confusing.

[bumbled-bees]

the hell is bro/sis/sib yapping about i don't even know who you are

Bumble Bee is a liar

For example, she claims to hate fascism, but runs her spaces in ways that are deeply authoritarian.

If you can't understand the difference between authoritarianism and fascism, I'm sorry but you need to get off the internet and go touch some grass. If that confuses you, allow me to elaborate. WWII was won when the authoritarians beat the fascist. There was no liberal democracy there. It was all authoritarianism.

She purges anyone who disagrees, bans people over tiny infractions, and labels any form of dissent as harassment or stalking. That’s not community leadership—it’s tyranny under the guise of protection. She takes no responsibility for the kind of space she creates, even though she sets the tone herself. Everything bad is someone else’s fault. Everything good is due to her strength and resilience.

Looking at your page all you do is harass her. You're blog only exists as a place for targeted harassment against one you-tuber who said the cartoon you liked is bad. So I'm not very surprised that she blocks as much as she does. I looked at your posts for the last six months and did not find a single post that wasn't about her. Worst a good chunk of your posts were dead naming her.

And let’s not forget her hypocritical stances. She claims to be pro-autistic rights, but has expressed disdain for autistic people who “don’t mask,” because she finds masking easy. She has a diagnosed history (Asperger’s, reportedly), yet she has no patience for people who struggle differently than she does. Her default mode is, “If I can do it, so can you,” and when others can’t? She dismisses them. This isn’t just ignorance—it’s that same selfish impulse again. If your experience doesn’t validate hers, she sees it as an inconvenience.

No, there is a large group of people, especially amongst the autism speaks crowd, who decide they get to be assholes because they're neurodivergent. Think of House MD. He thinks he gets to be a miserable cunt because he's smarter than everyone. CD is an absolute cunt, but I don't think she ever blamed it on her autism, just her cunty personality. Respect.

Even her critiques of media operate under this self-centered lens. Her Owl House commentary is a perfect example: Luz, the main character, goes through a guilt spiral and depressive slump. Lily’s response? Zero compassion. In fact, she goes so far as to say Amity should leave her. Why? Because Luz’s sadness is inconvenient. This isn’t analysis—it’s projection. And it reflects the way Lily handles people in real life: she has no time for emotional needs that aren’t hers.

Now you're just lying. I'm not event going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean well.

Luz is the best character in the show. Its really unfortunate that she got relegated to the background because everyone making the show deluded themselves to think hunter was better. Luz's sadness is inconvenient. The writers forgetting that Luz's threat response was to fuck shit up, and change her into this passive character was annoying. She still is the best character at the beginning of the show and the best character at the end of the show. Its just sad that the show runners didn't have enough faith in Sara-Nicole Robles to give the character justice.

You know what. I've been following media personalities for a while now. I grew up wanting to marry Helena Bonham-Carter. My new crush is Tawny Newsome. Moviebob and Shamus Young have shaped more of my media understanding than anyone else in the world.

Yeah, I'm a fanboy. I know what my limits are. If someone tells me to back off and leave them alone, I don't take it as a personal insult. I don't find it offensive.

What I do find offensive, is you calling me a fanboy as an insult, and i find your blog is just a targeted harassment campaign.

I tried to talk to you and gave you the benefit of the doubt. Then I found out the only function of your blog is to harass a YouTuber.

I'm sorry she didn't tongue bath the cartoons you liked. Hopefully one day you'll be able to move past that.

KM

[bumbled-bees]

Would you agree that Lily Orchard is a coward at her core?

While it's a little too speculative to definitively say what Lily Orchard feels at her core, and I prefer to stick to observable behavior, it's fair to note that many of her patterns could be seen as rooted in fear. She silences dissent immediately, avoids engaging with well-argued criticism, rebrands to try and escape her reputation, and isolates her audience from outside perspectives. Whether that's cowardice or simply rigid control, I can’t say for certain—but it does paint a picture of someone who is deeply uncomfortable with vulnerability or genuine challenge.

[bumbled-bees]

I was one of those casual fans that watched her for years. When I stopped watching Lily’s videos it wasn’t for some big revelation or because I learnt about the allegations. I just.. lost interest in the topics she talked about and slowly stopped watching

I was there for a long time. I remember the video where she mentioned Stockholm and though “wow a fanfic by a creator I like, I should read that” but I (thankfully) never got around to it. I was there for the video where she claimed Josh lied about her writing it, but since I hadn’t read it, I believed her. I kind of followed her on tumblr, though I’m actually awful at keeping up with any social media other than YouTube lol

But then I just.. slowly lost interest I guess? I didn’t even notice that I forgot to watch her newest uploads until I had stopped watching entirely. And then like.. a month or two later a video popped up, a video proving that Lily wrote Stockholm. And I thought.. that’s weird? Was it a secret? I mean.. I know she didn’t mention it a lot, she said it outright in a video, did she not?

And then.. whoo boy.. that was an interesting hour or so

Anyway uhm… I kinda forgot where I was going with this? I kind of forgot why I wanted to tell you all of this too haha ^^’ uhm.. anyway, have a nice day!

This is another all too common story, some people just lose interest naturally and never get sucked in. Thankfully this seems to be the case for most casual viewers who don’t really care to get closer.

[bumbled-bees]

Getting Close Was What Set Me Free

(Or: Why I Do This Work)

So I've come to realize that getting close to Lily was what set me free. And by that I mean: the reason I was able to finally see Lily for who she really is wasn’t because I stumbled across some damning document or a big exposé. It was because I got too close to her to keep lying to myself.

I was in her server from June to September 2024. Three months. Not long in the grand scheme of things, but long enough to change everything.

Before that, I was just a casual fan. I watched her videos, nodded along with a lot of her takes, maybe rolled my eyes at a few. But I still trusted her. I still believed in the version of herself that she presents—the version that’s loud, unfiltered, “honest to a fault,” as she might say. Someone who’s rough around the edges but ultimately good-hearted. Someone who "says what everyone else is thinking." That’s the version she wants you to see.

And for a while, I bought into it. A lot of people do. Especially if you’re neurodivergent, LGBT+, or otherwise looking for a voice that feels like it “gets” you. She markets herself directly to us—those who’ve been overlooked, who’ve been hurt, who want to believe that someone loud and confident must know what they’re talking about.

But once I got inside that server, once I was in her space every day, I saw the real Lily. Not the polished version, not the performance. The person.

It started small. Subtle acts of condescension toward her own viewers. Passive-aggressive remarks she clearly expected people to just “get.” The way she acted offended if someone asked a question she didn’t feel like repeating herself on. That kind of thing. It wasn’t abusive in an overt way at first. But it chipped away at you. It created this atmosphere where you always had to tiptoe around her mood. And if you didn’t? Well, you were either ignored, mocked, or quietly exiled.

What really changed things for me was realizing how much effort she puts into controlling the space around her. That’s what it comes down to. Control. Everything is about control—what people are allowed to say, what kind of questions are allowed, what “tone” you’re supposed to use when addressing her. And the more time you spend in that environment, the more you realize that nothing you say is ever just a question. It’s a potential offense. A potential threat. Every interaction with her is a test you can fail, and she gets to decide the rules.

The incest game folder is when I started going back to old allegations, to posts I’d brushed off as “haters” or “drama.” And suddenly everything clicked. It wasn’t just “cancel culture” or “jealous ex-friends.” These were patterns. These were consistent behaviors. And they matched exactly what I was now seeing firsthand.

That’s when I got out. But that’s also when I realized how dangerous her grip really is.

Because if I’d stayed a casual fan? I wouldn’t have looked any of that up. I wouldn’t have believed the claims. I would’ve kept assuming that anyone who criticized her was just bitter or couldn’t handle a “strong personality.” And that’s what scares me most. How many people are still in that mindset? How many people are still where I was?

That’s why I started documenting. That’s why I made this blog. Not to “get back at her,” not to cause drama. But to lay out the patterns. To name them. To put them in the light. Because they are recognizable—and not just in Lily. The same red flags show up in other online spaces, in other creators, in other parasocial relationships. And if this blog helps even one person get out of a toxic space, or recognize that they’re not crazy for feeling like something’s off? Then it’s worth it.

I do this because I’ve been there. I saw it up close. And I got out. Now I want to help others recognize what I did—before they get pulled in too deep.

This isn’t a callout blog. It’s a flashlight. And I’m just trying to shine it where it’s needed.

[bumbled-bees]

Imma be honest, I thought the bee theme was a joke based on the fact Lily is also the name of a flower. And I might be outing myself here but Lily is definitely a spider lily with how toxic they are

Huh, didn't even consider that.

My username has no real meaning, but it's open to interpretation.

[bumbled-bees]

Any particular reason you named your blog the way you did?

Nope! Very little thought was put into it lol

[bumbled-bees]

What This Blog Is—and Why It Exists

Every so often, I feel the need to clarify what this blog is actually for. Because let’s be clear—this isn’t a drama blog. This isn’t about mudslinging, gossip, or trying to “cancel” anyone. That’s not the point, and it never has been.

What I do here is analyze Lily’s behavior. Not to “dunk” on her, not for petty reasons, but because her patterns are worth documenting. The way she cultivates an audience. The way she isolates them from outside perspectives. The way she presents herself as the ultimate authority while rejecting any attempt at accountability. The way she needs a villain in every situation, because the alternative—self-reflection—would mean admitting she might not always be right.

The reason I document this isn’t just because Lily is who she is. It’s because this kind of behavior is bigger than her.

It’s one thing to experience manipulation firsthand and feel uneasy about it—it’s another thing to see it broken down, explained, and given context. That’s what I aim to do here. Because when you can recognize a pattern, it becomes so much harder for someone to pull it on you again.

I do this because I’ve seen how easy it is to get pulled in. I’ve seen what it’s like from the inside. I’ve seen the way Lily makes herself seem reasonable while making others seem unstable. I’ve seen the ways she punishes curiosity, treats her audience like an extension of herself, and makes people afraid to question her. I know firsthand what it’s like to watch that slow erosion of critical thinking—to second-guess your gut because you trust someone to be as truthful and fair as they claim to be.

And I don’t want other people to have to go through that.

That’s why I document these patterns. That’s why I break them down in an easy-to-digest way. Not just so people can recognize them in Lily, but so they can recognize them anywhere. So if someone else—another content creator, a community leader, even a friend—starts exhibiting the same behaviors, people will see the signs and step back before they get pulled too deep.

This blog is preventative. It’s about understanding, not revenge. It’s about equipping people with the knowledge I wish I had sooner. Because once you recognize the playbook, you don’t fall for it again.

That’s what this blog is for. That’s why I do what I do.