chill-course-criticism - Tumblr blog

[chill-course-criticism]

(Before anyone says I like to revel in old drama/I’m stirring up drama, sometimes I need to read something without actually having to process new information and that’s what happened here. I just remembered something that’s really weird to me and that I thought people should know. Also please keep in mind that my memory isn’t the best, so I’m likely missing some smaller connecting events that lead up to this, though the message stays the same.)

Here’s a little expansion on what happened- keep in mind, this was on multiple occasions, but I’m focusing mostly on the time that I remember the best. There would be times when the conversation in the discourse channel would turn to headcannons and the like. Because of how many Homestuck fans were in the server, this time it went specifically to Homestuck headcannons.

So, they started talking about people headcannoning characters as being of color, more specifically people who headcannon characters as black. Now, this already seems weird for discourse, considering that (from my knowledge of Homestuck, if I’m wrong, please correct me) the characters are raceless and there are infinite universes/timelines, so every headcannon is incorrect regardless of what it actually it.

It got to some people posting art of the characters drawn as black in the chat and making fun of the art, often for ‘not looking like the character.’ Which, first of all, a number of them did, with the main changes being artstyle, skin color, and sometimes hair types (considdering that black hair often grows differently to white hair and is rarely naturally straight by comparasson, it makes sense and was to be expected). 

I know that I’m not the most educated on Homestuck, but I’ve seen the sprites and other art enough that I know what the characters look like and they were all fairly similar. Plus, from what I’ve learned when trying to figure out how to draw some of the characters, it can be hard to get them to look similar if you don’t have a similar artstyle to official sprites and character art.

It gets worse when you cosider that I (someone who isn’t really into Homestuck, so I’m less likely to even come across it) have seen art in similar “ugly” or even “uglier” styles (based off of what seems to be their criteria) but with the characters being drawn as white, light skinned, or raceless that none of them commented on.

-Mod Marsh

sometimes artworks would be sent in the discourse channel to be made fun of, sometimes not even because it was fetishistic to trans men, but just because the art style was ugly. The mods only ever said to cut it out once but it still happened without punishment.

Ahh- an example of the mods not using the abundance of power they have! It’s not okay to insult a piece of art just because the artstyle is ugly.

[chill-course-criticism]

holy shit could you weirdos get a life? Having multiple callout uwu blogs about some random single dude with a private server full of friends is fucking weird as shit. Get a job, or a pet, or a hobby, do something other than this creepy shit

Holy shit could you get a life? Sending hate to someone on the internet is fucking weird as shit. Get a job, or a pet, or a hobby, do something other than this creepy shit

[chill-course-criticism]

sometimes you say or do bad things while you’re in an awful mental place. sometimes you say things that are rude or uncalled for or manipulative. and i’m not going to hold that against you. mental illness is hard, and no one is perfect. but once you’re through that episode, you need to take steps to make amends. you need to apologize.

“i couldn’t help it, i was having a bad episode” is a justification, not an apology.

“i’m so fucking sorry, i fucked up, i don’t deserve to live, i should stop talking to anyone ever, i should die” is a second breakdown and a guilt trip. it is not an apology.

when you apologize, the focus should be on the person you hurt. “i’m sorry. i did something that was hurtful to you. even if i was having a rough time, you didn’t deserve to hear that,” is a better apology. if it was a small thing, you can leave it at that.

if you caused significant distress to the other person, this is a good time to talk about how you can minimize damage in the future. and again, even if it is tempting to say you should self-isolate and/or die, that is not a helpful suggestion. it will result in the person you’re talking to trying to talk you out of doing that, which makes your guilt the focus of the conversation instead of their hurt.

you deserve friendship, and you deserve support. but a supportive friend is not an emotional punching bag, and mental illness does not absolve you of responsibility for your actions. what you say during a mental breakdown doesn’t define you. how you deal with the aftermath though, says a lot.

[chill-course-criticism]

I’ve said this two or three times now, but here we go again:

First of all, I was part of a cult in my childhood and indoctrinated by my own fucking great-grandfather. That’s why this was so fucked up to me, because of how much this reminded me of all of that shit- that’s why I felt the need to say this.

I also said that I didn’t think that it is a cult and even included steps that aren’t shown by anyone involved to help prove that point. If I was really trying to send home that I think it’s a cult and prove that to other people, not only would I have not shown those, but probably made some bullshit up.

Also, to an extent, the server does control the flow of information, but only within the server, as a fucking said.

And yeah, fuck me for being so unsettled by how much I was reminded of my own cult trauma that I felt the need to warn people so they don’t end up in a situation that could be triggering to them the same way that it was to me. I really am a shitty fucking person for being traumatized and trying to possibly protect other traumatized people.

You’re all totally the good guys for jumping on a trauma survivor and former cult member who was just trying to show that things in the server made me uncomfortably reminded of my own trauma. It’s not like you’re triggering cult survivor, like you’re calling us shit people for doing this.

Great job. You’re not being unnecessarily cruel to trauma survivors at all.

The Cult Indoctrination Tactics of Chillcourse

I feel the need to start this post off by stating that I do not think Chillcourse/Chillmeds is a cult. There is no evidence of it being an actual cult, nor would it be productive to do so. However, the server moderators do show some cult-like behaviors and do so enough that it is somewhat concerning.

Again, I am not trying to say that anyone is part of or have created a cult, more so just pointing out that the server as a whole does show many behaviors associated with cults. 

Everything behavior called cult-ish in any way is comparable to accounts from former cult members or psychologists. I am also only pointing out tactics that I have personally seen or ones that are proven.

This post focusses on the cult indoctrination steps that the Chillcourse moderators exhibit. More cult-like behaviors will be discussed in (a) later post(s).

I would also like to add that the server and its mods do not use or explicitly show all of the cult indoctrination steps. However, all of the commonly known steps will be listed to make it more clear how many tactics are used by server moderators.

All of the tactics listed below the cut are said to be used by cults by psychologists, as well as former cult members.

Keep reading

[chill-course-criticism]

Dude what’s the fucking point there’s literally only like 45 people in the discord why’s it such a big deal to you

IDK, maybe the fact that some of these people tell others to kill themselves and that they’re freaks for disagreeing with them, or the fact that Dirk spreads misinformation, never corrects himself, and gets mad when people call him on it, or the fact that a number of server members are hypocrites who hate vague posters and then do the same thing to people they dislike, or-

[chill-course-criticism]

I know that I haven’t been in the server for a while, that’s why I only said that there wasn’t any context that made both the Fanta and slavery issues better and didn’t try to speak on anything else. I also know that I’m not in those other servers, which is also why I only brought up situations that I was sure that I was aware of.

None of us are judging you for not changing in one day. I’m just criticizing you for continuing to show toxic behavior after at least a month of being criticized and given opportunities to change. I even said that it was mostly a problem because these are all things that we’ve been saying for a longer amount of time than we should have felt the need to.:

You also continue to show the behaviors that you’ve been being called our for for over a month at this point. It’s concerning that you’ve said that you’re changing, while continuing to show this behavior and sometimes doing so even more. That’s not just us not saying that you haven’t changed in a day so you’re a bad person (which none of us have ever said), but that you’ve continued to show this same behavior for months and have gotten worse somewhat. There’s a big difference between those.

You also haven’t listened to a number of valid criticisms, seeing as you’ve continued to vague post and spread information about people you don’t like. Saying that doing that is bad, as well as hypocritical, is valid criticism that you’ve continuously ignored. 

I’d also like to know how we’re the bullies and some of your (seeming) friends, when we’re pointing out things that seem like genuine problems to us in the most respectful way that we can, while being called freaks and pieces of shit, as well as being told to die and kill ourselves. If we’re bullies, then you should also feel the same way about the people in your server that have done this to us and other criticism blogs.

Giving criticism is far less similar to bullying and harassment than telling people that they should die/kill themselves and that they’re freaks and terrible human beings.

We’ve also never called ourselves or any of the other blogs heroic. That’s just a blatant strawman argument. We haven’t even called ourselves the good guys. That’s another strawman. 

Considering someone who has a number of toxic behaviors, sits by while people they associate tell people to die, and refuses to grow as a person to be less morally solid than you doesn’t mean that you consider yourself the good guy.

That honestly just means that the person who’s opposing you is far worse than you, rather than that you are (or think that you are) the good guy or even a good person. We can’t stop doing something that we’re not doing.

-Mod Marsh

Anyway, I'm done talking about *that* stuff.

[chill-course-criticism]

How is there any more context needed to either of the linked to issues. You just clearly spread misinformation and shrugged off people’s concerns, seemingly because they didn’t suit you. You’re still clearly doing that and have done so somewhat in this conversation.

I saw what happened behind closed doors back when I was in the server and there wasn’t context or anything that made either of those look better. You ignored people who did was you suggest and came to you directly and spread misinformation. Both of these are things that you’ve somewhat continued to do.

If you have been asking for help, you’re not getting any that’s very good, considering that you’ve continued to ignore any for of criticism and spread misinformation that you don’t apologize for or correct at any point in time. You’re not changing. If you were showing growth, I’m fairly certain that most of the criticism blogs would stop, because what we want is change.

However, because you’ve continued to ignore criticism, spread information, strawman, etc. you’re clearly not changing. People who are trying don’t continue to do the things that they’re allegedly trying to grow from. People who hate fucking up don’t ignore and even semi-attack the people who are trying to point out where they can change and continue to fuck up in the ways that they’re constantly being called out for.

You can say that you’re changing and trying to do better all you want, but you fairly clearly aren’t. You’re still doing a lot of the stuff that other crit blogs were calling you out for from the beginning. That’s not what someone who’s trying to change does. There’s been no change and you’ve honestly seemingly gotten worse.

If you’re actually trying to get better, show it. Stop lying about people and things to prove your position, especially if you’re obviously wrong and what you’ve said hurts people. Stop refusing to accept criticism just because you don’t like the person who’s giving it to you, because that doesn’t diminish our points.

If you’re trying to get better, stop doing all of the things that we’ve been saying that you’re doing for far longer than we should have to have been. You can’t expect people to stop calling things out just because you say that you’re trying, when you’ve shown no change. You also can’t expect words followed by somewhat worsening actions to make up for any of the stuff that you’ve done.

~Mod Marsh

Anyway, I'm done talking about *that* stuff.

[chill-course-criticism]

How do you still not understand that there’s a difference between just being a human being who makes mistakes and constantly doing the same things, refusing to listen to anyone that you don’t like, semi-apologizing and the repeating the same behaviors, guilt tripping people in apologies, etc.

Being human is maybe accidentally saying some bigoted and insensitive stuff, then learning better and apologizing. However, you’ve said things that a number of people from the groups they involve have said are somewhat offensive that you then refused to apologize for because you didn’t like that someone was frustrated with you and said something that you didn’t like.

You also refuse to take even the most well put and calm criticism or concerns, which has been shown here: x

You also spread misinformation, which was easily disproven with a Google search, and then don’t admit that you’re wrong or at all try to correct it, shown here: x

You also can’t forget your seemingly hardline stance against suicide baiters, death threats, etc. that you ignore when it comes to server members.

This isn’t even all of it. Repeated bad behavior that you don’t apologize for nor grow from isn’t normal human fucking up, that’s just you being a bad person at this point. 

You don’t get to pull the “I messed up, I’m only human” card when you don’t listen to the people who give you examples of where you’ve messed up and how you can change. Because you’ve been given a way to get better and you ignore it, which isn’t what people who genuinely want to get better do.

Anyway, I'm done talking about *that* stuff.

[chill-course-criticism]

There are some more that I’ve seen, but these are the specific one’s that I was thinking of. Keep in mind, this is someone that most of us are fairly certain is in the server, seeing as he has the same profile picture on Tumblr as someone in the server with a similar mindset.

~Mod Marsh

I mean some of your followers have harassed people and told them to die but ok :///

And I'm my followers now? Ok. How many fucking times have I said, "don't witchhunt, don't send threats" etc. I don't fucking condone that, get your head out of your ass.

[chill-course-criticism]

Then what was it? Nearly every time in the past month or two that you’ve said that you were tired of something and were going to stop it was about the drama.

Plus, every time you’ve come back, often within a day of saying that you were done with it and/or leaving Tumblr, and started talking about everything again.

If I did misconstrue the situation this time, I will apologize, but I was going off of a pattern that you’ve yet to break.

~Mod Em

Anyway, I'm done talking about *that* stuff.

[chill-course-criticism]

It only took you three minutes this time. If you want to be done with this stuff, then be done. None of us are forcing you to look at our blog or even talk/think about us. You’re doing that of your own volition.

You can’t apologize for bringing this stuff up, saying you feel bad for the witch hunting and what not, and then not only continue to bring these things up when you know that your followers do tend to witch hunt when you bring people up in a negative light, but also do so only three minutes later.

You don’t seem at all sorry for causing witch hunts (especially since you clearly know that you do) since you continue to do things like this. You continue to bring up these blogs and our posts, knowing what your followers do.

If you’re really sorry, then change. Stop doing shit like this. 

~Mod Marsh

[chill-course-criticism]

There are also a number of (to my knowledge) current server members doing this. As well as people who you seem to consider close friends. These are all people you can easily stop associating with. Kick them from the server, stop being friends with them.

If you genuinely hate this kind of behavior as much as you say that you do, then stop associating with people who do this stuff.

~Mod Em

I mean some of your followers have harassed people and told them to die but ok :///

And I'm my followers now? Ok. How many fucking times have I said, "don't witchhunt, don't send threats" etc. I don't fucking condone that, get your head out of your ass.

[chill-course-criticism]

So that was a lie.

Anyway, I'm done talking about *that* stuff.

[chill-course-criticism]

You’re acting like we don’t have religious trauma, which we’ve stated that we do multiple times.

Plus, as we’ve stated twice now, we tagged the posts bringing up cults in any way with cult and abuse tags. If you chose to forgo those warnings, that’s not on us, because we didn’t make you do so. If we did miss a tag, as we’ve also already said, we will take responsibility for that. However, if that’s not the case, there was an out. You were not made to read that post and if you were, that’s not our problem that you were forced to do so.

We were in a cult too, as much as a 3-6 or 7 year old can be. That’s why this was so important to us. If something reminds us so much of our trauma that we feel the need to face this kind of shitstorm to call it out, there’s a major problem that isn’t us.

~Mod Marsh

Anyway, calling members of a private discord server, who have religious trauma, a cult? Makes you scummy. Even if you claim you're not calling us a cult but saying we display "cultish" behaviors? Yeah, ok, let's just trigger my and my friends' religious traumas. I was in a cult. This ain't it.

[chill-course-criticism]

1. We also have cult trauma. We also didn’t tag anyone in this post and did our best to tag for cult triggers. If anyone bypassed those tags, that’s on them, as we did give them an out.

2. I’m fairly certain that the post said that we weren’t 100% sure on the love-bombing. Plus, basic kindness doesn’t normally start to decrease when one even has one opinion (again, non server controlled) that the people being kind don’t agree with.

3. Normally venting doesn’t breed guilt in people, which this has been said to do in a number of former server members. Venting doesn’t start to grow an environment that makes it seem like even having the slightest problem with someone makes you the reason they have poor mental health or makes you a bad person.

4. Again, we said that we didn’t think it was a cult multiple times. Drawing parallels between things doesn’t meant that you think they’re the same thing. 

(this isn’t going to be the best analogy because I’m tired, but the point still stands) Like, if I were to point out some similarities between Full House and The Cleveland Show doesn’t mean that they’re the same thing, nor that I think that. It just means that I noticed similarities that I wanted to or felt the need to point out.

~Mod Marsh

The Cult Indoctrination Tactics of Chillcourse

I feel the need to start this post off by stating that I do not think Chillcourse/Chillmeds is a cult. There is no evidence of it being an actual cult, nor would it be productive to do so. However, the server moderators do show some cult-like behaviors and do so enough that it is somewhat concerning.

Again, I am not trying to say that anyone is part of or have created a cult, more so just pointing out that the server as a whole does show many behaviors associated with cults. 

Everything behavior called cult-ish in any way is comparable to accounts from former cult members or psychologists. I am also only pointing out tactics that I have personally seen or ones that are proven.

This post focusses on the cult indoctrination steps that the Chillcourse moderators exhibit. More cult-like behaviors will be discussed in (a) later post(s).

I would also like to add that the server and its mods do not use or explicitly show all of the cult indoctrination steps. However, all of the commonly known steps will be listed to make it more clear how many tactics are used by server moderators.

All of the tactics listed below the cut are said to be used by cults by psychologists, as well as former cult members.

Keep reading

[chill-course-criticism]

not like hemofagia had the upper hand in the first place bc he insulted and wished death upon others but-

👀

[chill-course-criticism]

Let’s see…

1.

We never said that Chillcourse was a cult, nor server members actual cult members. The whole point of that post was to just point out that there is an uncomfortable number of cult like tactics used within the server. It was stated twice that we don’t actually think that the server is a cult or that anyone is a cult leader or member.

2. If you were triggered, I’m sorry, but that’s not any of our faults. The post was tagged with both cult triggers and abuse triggers. Anyone who could get triggered by that had an out to skip that post and very easily so. You’re the one who exposed yourself to that content, even though we did tag it so this wouldn’t be an issue.

It’s none of our faults that you were triggered because we did our best to avoid that happening to anyone. If we missed a major tag, we’ll take responsibility for that, but we tried to make sure that that wouldn’t happen. It’s not our faults that you may have chosen to forgo those warnings and read the post anyway. That’s on you.

–

The rest of this is under the cut for stronger mentions of abuse and cult behavior to avoid triggering anyone.

3. We are victims of abuse, ritual abuse, and some cult like rituals and behavior. All of these are things that have stuck with all of us from childhood and still affects us now. That’s a big part of why we made sure to say that we weren’t calling Chillcourse a legitimate cult. Not only as to not trigger anyone, but also to make sure that it was known that we’re not minimizing what cults do to people by saying that Chillcourse is a cult.

Part of why we split to begin with was because of our great-grandfather who intentionally abused not only us, but his two biological daughters to the point that we now have DID. This man was also a cult leader who involved his family, including us to an extent.

The fact that you’re assuming that we’re not victims of cults and (to an extent) former cult members so you can peg us as dismissing victims is disgusting. You can’t just assume that people who disagree with you don’t have trauma and are now dismissing yours.

We also don’t hate anyone for no reason (this is in reference to a different post). We honestly don’t really hate anyone, just what they’re doing to people and a lot of the things that they say. There is a reason for us hating all of the things going on- a lot of it reminds us of our abuse. Saying that it’s all for no reason is dismissive.

If something reminds us of our abusers, we are going to call it out so people don’t get hurt, especially to the extent that we were. That’s not to imply that we do think anyone could get as hurt as we are because of this, but to say that things like this can get out of hand and mess people up to an extreme extent. The fact that we were reminded so much of our abuse that we felt the need to go to this extent is disgusting.

We said that we were not trying to compare Chillcourse to a cult, primarily because it would be dismissive to a number of people’s experiences, including our own. All of this was mostly compared to our own abuse and experience with a cult.

I probably missed something here because this whole thing is somewhat triggering for me, but most of the important points were made.

-Mod Marsh

Hey as someone who was pulled into an actual christian based cult at a young age, that cult post is kinda Not Funny like its a big yikes to compare the server to a cult ngl. Kinda dismissive of cult victims thanks. the server really doesnt display any of the ‘signs’ of a cult. Dont be disgusting. Also dont whine about me ‘defending’ the server id appreciate it

That... wasn’t my post, dude, I just reblogged it. And it said in the opening paragraphs it doesn’t think the server is a cult it was just showing similarities. You have no idea if a cult victim or abuse victim looked over the post or helped make it. I’m totally fine with criticism and debate as long as it isn’t what I usually get from you guys (aka insults, mocking, saying misleading things or straight up not reading what I said).