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delicateartisantrash · 4 days ago

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the words themselves, content and creator, i don't rail against them-- but used within the context of how i have seen then being used these days in that specific phrase, it leads me to this distaste of someone not seeing the human behind the "content" they "consume." It feels dehumanizing, in that specific context.

You nailed it on the head, i think;

"And that is, simply that we don’t do it for others, but rather for ourselves and the likeminded people and that others (audience) have no right to demand anything from us because this is, as said above (post) before, a hobby."

I think you're also right that many people hear artist and assume it must be only the visual arts, sometimes they might include music or theatre in that. I was raised to see art in.... Basically everything. Science, dancing, theatre, music, writing, graphic design, photography and film, sculpture. There's so much.

Code and programming? A very specific form of art. Engineering? Art.

What an artist *is* at the end of the day, at our base essence shared despite all differences, is a problem solver. Most usually, to solve that drive of "how do i communicate this thought or emotion?" And that expression can take the form of words, of movement, of colors or physical three dimensional forms, of anything really.

I just get so sad seeing people treat people like they're some empty machine churning out content. I don't even like thinking of big fandom *creators* as different from the everyday artist on a conceptual base level-- the only real difference between a professional producer writing a script for a canon Transformers episode or film is the fact they've got those fancy legal contracts, big budgets, and someone else's fingers in their creative soup as another chef that they have to problem solve with or around, because the fact of the matter is it takes both finances and time to produce certain things, and many times, even multiple people, and it's their job, so they've gotta work within the confines of said job.

i admit, i didn't really get the word "influencer" but that's probably because i only ever see it mentioned when someone is complaining about some seemingly pointless drama or misinformation, which drives me to wonder how they could attach such a word to them. I think everyone is an influencer in the same way i think everyone is an artist. We all just show different levels and specific focuses.

I feel like I've influenced people with my art, to think, to question; to ponder deep thoughts, it simply to bring a laugh into a boring day, or provide some shred of meaningful comfort. Does that make me an influencer? Perhaps, but not in the way the word has seemingly been used to label a group of people who have a very specific range of reach (in other words extensive) over an audience they extend sway over.

There's logistical differences, there's always going to be

But at the end of the day, we're all just squishy mortals and many of us like to create things and share them

I know i say i write and do my other art for myself first and foremost, but i still think about how it would affect someone else, letting it free into the world; i just also know I'd keep creating what i create, whether anyone else wanted to enjoy it with me or not, because it brings me so much happiness and soul soothing content. It's just even so much better to share and connect.

idk how to word this properly but wrt the fanfic thing you reblogged earlier. Why do fanfic writers have such different expectations than any other content hosting platform?

Like lets take youtube as a point of comparison, Engagement like comments and likes largely exists to boost the works place in algorithm, thats why youtubers put in calls to action and other engament bait. Few with decent reach even read the comments and the audience shouldnt try to develop any weird parasocial relationship with the youtuber. Fanfic authors ask for likes (kudos, because the websites gotta use nonstandard language for some reason) and comments despite them not having any impact on an algorithm, and seem to want the audience to try and develop a relationship with the author based on tumblr posts like that one.

Why the radical difference in behaviour away from the norm? And honestly with all the (usually) metaphorical blood spilled online about parasociality why are authors really surprised that the audience tries to keep their distance as is best practice with any other content producer?

okay I am going to answer this as kindly and as calmly as I can and try to assume that you are asking this in good faith. because my friend, the fact that you feel the need to ask is, to me, The Problem.

[this is, for the record, in response to this post]

fanfiction writers are not *posting content.* (I also have reservations about engaging with the term "content producer" or "content creator" but let's put that aside for now, I'll circle back to it.) you say "they seem to want the audience to try and develop a relationship with the author" as though it is strange, off-putting, and incomprehensible to you, when in fact that is the point of writing fanfiction. it is a way of participating in fandom. it is a way of building community and exchanging ideas and becoming closer with people.

if authors wanted to solely ~generate content~ that would get them attention (?? to what end, the dynamic you have described seems to equate algorithmic supremacy as winning for winning's sake, as though all anyone wants to do is BUILD an audience without ENGAGING with them, which I cannot fathom but let's pretend for a moment that is, in fact, true) then like. if that were the case why on earth would they choose a medium in which they categorically cannot succeed and profit, because it isn't their IP?

you are equating two things that are not at all the same thing. to the degree that parasocial relationships are to be avoided, and "that person is not trying to be your friend they are trying to entertain you, please respect their boundaries" is a real dynamic -- which it is!! -- like. you have to understand that the reason that is true for the people of whom it is true is because it is their JOB. they are storytellers by profession, and they are either through direct payment, or sponsorship, or advertising, or through some other means, profiting off of your attention. i don't say this to be dismissive, many wonderful artists and actors and comedians and any number of a thousand things that i enjoy very much go this route but they do so as a *career choice.* and so when you violate the public/private boundary with them, you are presuming to know a Person rather than their Worksona. the people who work at Dropout or who stream their actual play tabletop games or who broadcast on TikTok or YouTube are inviting me to feel like i know them to the degree to which that helps them succeed in their medium and at their craft, but there MUST be a mutual understanding that that's a feeling, not a fact.

however.

a fanfiction writer is not an influencer, not a professional, and is not looking to garner "success." there is no share of audience we are trying to gain for gain's sake, because we are not competition with one another, because there is nothing to win other than the pleasure of each other's company. we are doing this for no other reason than the love of the game; because we have things we want desperately to say about these worlds, these characters, these dynamics, and because we *want more than anything to know we are not alone in our thoughts and feelings.* fanfiction is a bid for interaction, engagement, attention, and consideration. it is not meant to be consumed and then moved on from because we are NOT paid for our work, nor do we want to be. the reward we seek is "attention," but attention as in CONVERSATION, not attention as in clicks. we are not IN this for profit, or for number-go-up. there is no such thing: legally there cannot be. we are in this because we want to be seen and known.

like. please understand. i am now married to someone i met because of mutual comments on fanfiction. our close friend and roommate, with whom i have cohabitated for over a decade now, is someone I met because of mutual comments on fanfiction and livejournal posts. that is my household. beyond my household, the vast majority of my closest personal friends are people with whom I built relationships in this way.

you ask why fanfiction writers want THIS and not "the norm," but the idea of everything being built to cater to an algorithm to continue to build clout, as though the only method of reaching people is Distant Overlord Creator and Passive Receptive Audience being "the norm" is EXTREMELY NEW. this is not how it has always been!! please think of the writers of zines in a pre-internet fandom, using paper and glue and xerox to try and meet like-minded people in a world that was designed for you to only ever meet people in person, by happenstance, in your own hometown. imagine the writers of the early internet, building webrings from scratch to CREATE a community to find each other, despite distance. imagine livejournal groups, forums, and -- yes, indeed, of course -- comment threads IN STORIES -- as places where people go to *converse.* in the past, we had an entire Type Of Guy that everyone knew about, the BNF ("Big Name Fan") whose existence had to be described via meme because it was SO DIFFERENT THAN THE NORM. treating fellow fans like celebrities or people too cool for the regular kids to know was an OUTLIER, and one commonly understood to lead to toxicity.

in the past, I have likened writing fanfiction to echolocation. i am not screaming because I like hearing the sound of my own voice, though i can and do find my voice beautiful. i am screaming so that the vibrations can bounce back to me and show me the world. the purpose is in the feedback. otherwise it is just noise.

does this make any sense? can you see, when i describe it that way, why an ask like yours makes me feel despair, because it makes us all sound so horribly separate from one another?

perhaps I will try another metaphor:

a professional chef who runs a restaurant will not have her feelings hurt if you never fight your way into the kitchen to personally tell her how much you enjoyed the meal. that would, indeed, violate a boundary. professional kitchens are a place of work, and you have already showed her you enjoyed the meal by paying for it, or by perhaps spreading your enjoyment by word of mouth to your friends so they, too, can have good meals. you show your appreciation by continuing to come back. if a bunch of people sitting around randomly happen to have a conversation about how much they love the food, it wouldn't hurt that chef's feelings to not be included in the conversation. however: EVEN IN THIS INSTANCE, it is ADVISABLE AND APPROPRIATE to leave a good review! you might post about how much you like this restaurant on Yelp, and it would probably make the chef feel great to see those positive comments. but the chef doesn't NEED them, because the chef is, again, *also being paid to cook.* that's why she started the restaurant, to be paid to cook!

i am not being paid to cook.

i am at home in my own kitchen, making things for a community potluck where i hope everyone will bring something we can all enjoy together. some people at the potluck are better bakers, some better cooks; some can't cook at all but are great at logistics and make sure there's enough napkins for everyone; some people come just to enjoy the food, because that's what the party is for. and if I, as this enthusiast chef who made something from my heart for this reason alone, learned after the fact that a bunch of people got together in the parking lot to rave about my dish but no one of them had ever bothered to tell me while I sat alone at my table all night, occasionally seeing people come by to pick up a plate but never saying anything to me -- of course that would bother me, because I am not otherwise profiting off the labor I put in. this is not a bid to be paid, because if someone WERE to say "hey, great cake!! here's five bucks for a slice" i would say no, friend, that is not the point and give them the money back. i'm not trying to Get Mine. I am in it to see the look on your face. I'm in it so you can tell me what about it moved you, so that I can say back what moved me to make it in the first place. so we can TALK about it.

because what happened in the first place is this: one time I had a cake whose sweetness, richness, flavor, intensity, and composition moved me so much that I *taught myself to bake.* so I could see how much vanilla and sugar was too much, so I could learn how to make things rise instead of fall flat, so I could even better appreciate the original cake by seeing for myself the effort and talent and inspiration that goes into making one even half as good.

learning to do so is a satisfying accomplishment in and of itself, yes.

but I also did it because at the end of the day we should EAT the cake. and it's a lonely thing, to eat alone when a meal was always designed and intended to be shared.

so, to answer your last question: i'm not surprised, i'm just sad. because somehow two things that were never meant to be seen as the same have been labeled "content," and thus identical. and it diminishes both the things that ARE intended to be paid for AND the things that are not, because it removes any sense of intimacy or meaning from the work.

i hope you know i'm not mad at you for asking. but i'm frustrated we've come to live in a world where the question needs to be asked, because the answers are no longer intuitively obvious because we're so siloed.

#Dat Rambles #Long post #Like really long post now xD

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delicateartisantrash · 5 days ago

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I want to give you a hug so badly because that sounds lonely as heck.

yeah, sure, I don't think i'm gonna change any worlds overnight with my silly little post

but community IS here :P I've found it, and it's growing by the day, I am just so shocked that it's something i've even had to go looking under metaphorical rocks to find and nurture because it *used* to be an overflowing garden. I couldn't go anywhere online without seeing people converse and chatter and people posting stuff for fun because it was fun, and a side-effect of this was gaining 'followers' who liked the same fun you did.

For context, I'm almost thirty years old. I started using the internet when I was in middleschool, so I was about seven years old when I picked up an active presence online, and by active I mean the internet was more or less my social life because i had a weird upbringing and a lot of physical isolation from people outside of school/work. I was online way more than I should have been, and I zipped around all over the place. Tumblr was only one of the websites I participated on.

Things really have, indeed, changed a lot. Some things, for the better. Some things, i roll my eyes and sigh and wait patiently for the fads to run their course because eventually, people realize it's unsustainable and not satisfying, and come right back to what i'll call 'The Old Ways' or at least the part of the things of our past that *are* worth keeping. I've seen this pattern repeated by the former generations and the ones now.

Mostly, I think people at large are just shy and so convinced that they're going to fail, it's too scary to try and succeed (in the context of a social interaction, but that could apply in other contexts tbh).

idk how to word this properly but wrt the fanfic thing you reblogged earlier. Why do fanfic writers have such different expectations than any other content hosting platform?

[this is, for the record, in response to this post]

however.

does this make any sense? can you see, when i describe it that way, why an ask like yours makes me feel despair, because it makes us all sound so horribly separate from one another?

perhaps I will try another metaphor:

i am not being paid to cook.

learning to do so is a satisfying accomplishment in and of itself, yes.

but I also did it because at the end of the day we should EAT the cake. and it's a lonely thing, to eat alone when a meal was always designed and intended to be shared.

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delicateartisantrash · 5 days ago

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THE ENTIRE WEST IS BEING PUT UP FOR SALE AND I AM BEGGING YOU TO CALL YOUR SENATORS

Trump’s budget bill has many, many things in it, but buried amongst it is the MILLIONS OF ACRES OF PUBLIC LAND FOR SALE.

This is the entirety of the Arizona state forests, the entire Cascades mountain range. Swathes of pristine desert around the national parks in Utah. On the doorstep of Jackson Hole.

THIS BILL IS BIG, BUT IT CAN BE AMENDED AND ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT PASS AS IS please.

If you have ever enjoyed the wilderness, we stand to lose it all forever.

CALLING your senators - NOT JUST IN THE WEST. ALL SENATORS, is CRUCIAL.

Outdoor alliance has a great resource for reaching out.

I don’t have a huge following but please, everywhere I have ever loved, the forests I grew up playing in, the land I got married on, is all at risk and I am begging.

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delicateartisantrash · 5 days ago

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#Just one king #Singular #XD

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delicateartisantrash · 5 days ago

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the Internet is a very different place to me now than it was when i was a kid.

Remember when the app stores were FULL of unique games by a whole shitton of indie developers. New things were coming out just because people were collectively having so much fun designing, inventing, and sharing the experience.

Then it got monetized. Then it got *lazy.* now i can't hardly find a game that perks my interest browsing hundreds of titles because... They're all the same game. Corporate business use The framework of one or two games that someone once conceived of and it got popular and hey, when you're trying to make money, you tend to do What's Proven And Works because that has the lowest investment risk. It's logical. It's practical. And it's like the antithesis of creativity, because they operate in such narrow fields that's little room for truly new ideas and renderings. Think of all the farm sims that exist now: its like the most popular game ever type constantly rendered and every time i try one hoping for some new take on my favorite genre,i don't even have to read their tutorial because it's the same game I've played a dozen times prior, and all they changes was the visual art.

I remember when Tumblr used to be a place where people regularly talked with each other. Re logged shit that they liked because that wanted to *share* this cool thing with others and help lift the OP up through that word of mouth. "Content creator" bothers me. This is a new term.

If you call me a content creator because i write fanfiction and publish my art I'm going to scream and cry because I'm not making any of this stuff for you. I'm making it for *me.* Because it's an expression of my love, my thoughts, my hopes and dreams.

I *share* my work because i want to engage with people, and because it means so much to me, how could i possibly want to be selfish and keep this beloved gem am to myself?

I just started leaving comments all over a new (to me , i just discovered their works) author because i wanted to... But also in leaving that first comment i discovered that NO ONE ELSE HAS BEEN COMMENTING JACK SHIT ON THEIR WORKS. a 150,000+ word collection of stories and I'm the only sappy fandom loving fuck who's taken the time to say so much as "of my gosh i loved this because x and it made me feel emotions thank you for sharing this"

I had a person once leave a comment that basically insisted that i was doing wrong because my story "should be for everyone" but they isolated one detail that they decided made it content that was limited. Jokes on them, my stories AREN'T for everyone they're for me, first and foremost. And they're for whoever the fuck likes the same things *i* like and

Holy shit y'all, i was lonely as fuck before i started posting my fanfictions. And i mean LONELY. I'm isolated. I'm physically isolated from people and often spend weeks -- *WEEKS* -- as the only human in my household, not even getting to go to the grocery store on my own because i cannot currently drive due to several reasons and it sucks.

I try to tell myself I'm publishing my stories whether someone ever engages with them or not, and i do think that's a healthy mental perspective for a fanfiction author to cultivate, but the truth?

The truth is I'm lonely and miserably desperate to meet people who aren't just kind, but who *also* share my niche interests and way of thinking. I know a lot of people. Kinda unavoidable, because i grew up in sales with a traveling merchant mom, and i have a worksona, and kept using it as a waitress. It was my *job* to entertain people and make them feel a friendly connection that they could enjoy and love and appreciate--- and then they go home.

And i went home alone.

I didn't manage to make close friends out of those places most times. Connecting with a customer is difficult.

Nothing makes me sadder as an author, than seeing my notifications spammed with likes... And not a single comment. It feels like people walk up to my art, hug it to their chest, proclaim to it how much it means to them and how much it makes them feel and think.... And they never tell *me.*

It honestly hurts when i read those comments saying someone feels x was about my story and how much they love it and they've been constantly gushing to and annoying they're friends with how many screenshots and babbles they've inundated said friend with.

And yet i never heard a peep. I know not everyone has the energy to leave big long winded comments or even those little heartfelt "i loved this thanks for sharing!!!" Or a modern hieroglyphic message made up out of a string of emojis... But it still hurts when i look at the numbers

And see "wow. There's 20,000 unique views, 150+ public bookmarks and who knows how many hidden private ones, and i have two comments on this fic."

It makes me feel like I'm standing in a crowd alone while they're all having fun in this world i built, but never inviting me to participate.

Sure, there's authors who don't want social interaction with their audience for any number of reasons. Everyone will have individual boundaries.

But those aren't the authors who allow comments on their fics, who have their ask boxes open, or who regularly post to social media just *hoping* someone will be interested in taking to them

You can take it too far, too-- is not cool to spam someone no matter how much you like them, with lots of messages that demand response and you guys ain't even said hello and greeted each other. I've had that, too-- and it makes me feel even more like some "content provider" like I'm this organic living ai model who you put input into and get out more fandom content. I'm a person, y'all. I don't ever want to be a celebrity or be treated like one. It's fucking lonely on a pedestal and it's fucking lonely watching the likes come in and never once getting a word of engagement from these people I've supposedly touched the life of in a sacred emotional way.

I *cherish* the friends i have made this last year. Most of them are people who commented on my fic... then replied to my reply. And we began talking. About the fandom, about the emotions that drove me to write and them to read my stories, about life, about things important to us outside the fandom we both adore.

I don't know if people just get shy or if a03 doesn't notify people i replied to them, but it's very rare for conversation to actually start in my comments, and it literally makes my whole day getting even so much as a thoughtful brief message saying they're too tired to write more but loved it. I cherish every comment.

I'm very lucky that I've got a small and growing group of people who engage with me over my fics and through my art. This IS my social life, y'all. I physically can't go hang out at the places where people are or spend money to go do activities where I'd meet people.

When i post art, it's because I'm sharing a piece of myself with the world and hoping it connects with someone who shares my vibe. I put a lot of myself into these stories. One of my best friends is realizing just how much she already knew me before we even met in real life or began talking, because one of my fics is straight up a self insert that i word changed the characters name of before publishing. So if someone likes that character, they're probably going to like *me* because i put myself and my thoughts and dreams and fears and hopes into her. Yeah, she's her own character, i changed a lot of details to make her Herself, but... At the heart of it?

That's me y'all.

If someone likes my stories we're ten times more likely to become good friends, because it's like this filter. We already share a bunch of things in common. And we grow the relationship from that shared commonality.

Okay I'll stop waxing on and on now, but.... Yeah.

Remember that the words you read are written by someone just as mortal and flawed and fleshy as you are. I spill food on myself and trip over nothing sometimes. I make mistakes. I'm human.

Please, i beg: stop taking the life out of art.

idk how to word this properly but wrt the fanfic thing you reblogged earlier. Why do fanfic writers have such different expectations than any other content hosting platform?

[this is, for the record, in response to this post]

however.

does this make any sense? can you see, when i describe it that way, why an ask like yours makes me feel despair, because it makes us all sound so horribly separate from one another?

perhaps I will try another metaphor:

i am not being paid to cook.

learning to do so is a satisfying accomplishment in and of itself, yes.

but I also did it because at the end of the day we should EAT the cake. and it's a lonely thing, to eat alone when a meal was always designed and intended to be shared.

#Yes this is incidentally why DatsChaos my alt account exists #I got so mad at tumble numbers of seeing thousands of likes on a post and like TWO REBLOGS.#I will share the shit out of stuff i love.#Spread the joy #Dat Rambles #Like a lot #Oops

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