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what are your thoughts on the Harry/Dumbledore relationship?

hello! so most of my feelings about harry-dumbledore equation are captured in these metas:

A cold blooded walk to destruction

the lightning struck tower

my favourite moment of Harry and Dumbledore's relationship though is captured in the Life and Lies chapter in Deathly Hallows. I am obsessed with that chapter and obsessed with Harry's feelings in those chapters:

here are my notes from the chapter, cutting it down to Harry-Dumbledore stuff:

The chapter opens with the smallness of Harry against the vast sky, a bird's eye view shot to really highlight how vulnerable he feels. On the heels of the chapters where he sees himself and his family immortalised in statues and have their old home preserved, it feels so stark.

The throughline of connection Harry makes from "People don't like being locked up! You did it to me last summer" to Dumbledore's apparent confinement of Ariana. Unresolved abandonment issues from OOTP, Sirius grief all coming to the surface here.

I am especially struck by the image of Harry's angry shouting making blackbirds fly into the pearly sky, and spiral over him. Blackbirds are associated with mystery, secrets and are seen as messengers to netherworld - this combined with the image of pearly white sky (heavens/God) seems intentional.

Harry and Hermione throughout Dh have oppositional positions: faith vs rationalist (hallows vs horcruxes), acceptance vs fear of death, and here Rita's book lies between them, a line on the ground.

"Look at what he has asked from me!: :The image of Harry, arms flung over his head - "trying to hold in his anger" or "protect himself from the weight of his disillusionment" is the thing that stays with me from this chapter. (it is reminiscent of Snape's "you have used me! I have spied for you, lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you" - basically, "why have you forsaken me?" moment. The chapter being set in whiteness and emptiness, reminiscent of King's Cross chapter where Harry does get his answers from Dumbledore is very striking)

Hermione, who has modified her parents memories, can confidently assert that "He loved you, I know he loved you", because her love for her parents, for Ron can also be sacrificed at the altar of greater good, even if it means doing things that would hurt them and dismiss their agency (as is with her parents). It doesn't mean she doesn't love them. Harry dropping his arms when she says this - he wants to believe it, he hopes to believe it but doesn't. But with Ron's return in Silver Doe, Harry will be on his path to be Dumbledore's man again.

From the Silver doe chapter: The discussion on Dumbledore with Ron shows the nature of faith Harry has in the moment: "Dumbledore's dead. He's definitely gone" vs in Chamber of Secrets where he says, "he will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him". With the faith in Cos, he was rewarded with Fawkes and Sorting Hat. Further illustration of where Harry is - Ron not thinking the Grindelwald stuff was a big deal ("he was really young") vs Harry ("he was our age").

Malfoy Manor chapters: In keeping with the faith aspect of the book, when Harry is at his most helpless- he asks the shard of mirror, where he kept thinking he is seeing Dumbledore's eye -for help. Dobby comes through.

Shell Cottage chapters: Harry understands the path Dumbledore laid out for him, but wishes he could understand Dumbledore himself. ( Ron and Harry's conversation about Voldemort - "You really understand him." "Bits of him -- I wish I understood Dumbledore as much.")

By the chapters where Harry meets Aberforth, Harry gains an understanding of Dumbledore's emotionality - "He was never free... never. The night your brother died - he took a potion that drove him mad. 'Don't hurt them-please, hurt me instead' " Harry points out how watching Aberforth and Ariana being hurt was torture to him, and emphasises his commitment to Dumbledore's cause, "Because sometimes you've got to think of the Greater Good! This is war!"

King's Cross chapter - Harry gets his answers. :)

Harry's journey to understand Dumbledore is extremely profound, and Harry's forgiveness of what Dumbledore put him through (with regards to his agency - which is Harry's main issue) comes from a very reflective, thoughtful space. Therefore, he names his second son after the two men riddled by guilt, seeking to atone for the harmful things they had done by committing to a greater cause.

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Tone-deaf Dumbledore singing “You’re So Vain” with Grindlewald in mind for karaoke night I am dead this is too powerful.

For 12: What are the rest of the faves performing at Dumbledore’s (mandatory) “let’s resolve our differences through the magic of song” afterlife karaoke night?

i regret to say that i have taken this and run with it...

[character ask game here; dumbledore the karaoke legend here]

portrait dumbledore’s decision to turn up in the great hall in the middle of the battle of hogwarts and suggest that everyone just calm down and have a nice sing-song is initially met with some apprehension. but then an open bar appears in the room of requirement and the assembled enemies think they might as well…

harry gets things started with a spirited performance of holding out for a hero by bonnie tyler. it’s a hard act to follow, but dumbledore and voldemort manage it with their version of the boy is mine by brandy and monica (released in 1998, so good to see that they were both keeping up with the charts…).

this is a lot of male nonsense - and refereeing a battle definitely isn’t what she thought she’d be doing when she agreed to take a teaching job - so minerva grabs the microphone and delivers a barnstorming rendition of nine to five by dolly parton. the younger generation of women make this point too: ginny with cherry bomb by the runaways; fleur with celebrity skin by hole; and hermione with respect by aretha franklin.

luna, obviously, deviates from this with an uncomfortable cover of jefferson airplane’s white rabbit. backwards. since she claims this proves the existence of the crumpled-horned snorkack. luckily, ron decides to get everything back on track with she drives me crazy by fine young cannibals.

dumbledore notices that the death eaters have been awfully quiet, so he lures them in with an astonishing delivery of blue öyster cult’s don’t fear the reaper, with flitwick on the guitar. never willing to be upstaged, augustus rookwood, antonin dolohov, rabastan lestrange, and corban yaxley take to the stage with motownphilly by boyz ii men.

two death eaters are left out of the performance. lucius malfoy - who’s been in a flop era since the second voldemort strutted out of the cauldron - brings the vibe down with nobody knows you when you’re down and out (the sam cooke version, because that’s the best). it’s taken down even further when rodolphus - who has finally twigged what his wife’s fondness for singing black is the colour of my true love’s hair in the shower means - rages his way through ray charles’ i believe to my soul.

bellatrix literally couldn’t give a shit. she’s on her feet, in a leather catsuit, and bringing the house down with i’d rather be burned as a witch, leaving eartha kitt in the dust.

the trio are impressed and reward her with a version of wannabe by the spice girls (harry’s baby, ron’s ginger, hermione’s scary, draco malfoy is posh, and dean is sporty - seamus was removed from the room for singing come out ye black and tans). they are interrupted just as hermione’s rap begins by snape, bleeding profusely from the neck, staggering in to the opening bars of tubthumping by chumbawamba.

nagini, in an attempt at an apology for the whole tearing snape’s jugular thing, hisses a surprisingly beautiful rendition of al wilson’s the snake.

several vodka-and-tonics in at this point, lord voldemort is prepared to be convinced that maybe this is a better way of spending his time than all the murder. his musical bid for peace? don’t cry for me argentina. obviously.

the night is then ruined when percy whips out a guitar and says, ‘anyway, here’s wonderwall.’

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YOU hate JK Rowling!

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I highly doubt that's the unforgivable thing James do to Severus.

And you believe too much, Albus.

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It was only when he was back in bed that it struck Harry that Dumbledore might not have been entirely truthful. But then, he thought, as he shoved Scabbers off his pillow, it had been quite a personal question.

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Some thoughts about Albus and his lack of emotional connections

I'm listening to GoF on my way to and from work right now (there are very easily findable free versions online, so u don't have to give jkr any more money fyi) and i just reached the chapter during which Rita Skeeter exposes Hagrid as a half-giant. That chapter also has one of my favourite little moments of the entire book: Harry, Ron, Hermine and Albus convincing Hagrid to come out of hiding. Not just because it's funny af but also because it reveals so much abour these characters and their relationships

For one, it's just really funny. Hermione yelling through the door for Hagrid to get his act together and then coming face to face with her headmaster and you can hear her inner goody-two-shoes waring against the growing political activist (which kinda ends in her just blanking completely)

Then you have Harry who is the only one of the trio to speak more then a sentence while they are knowingly in the presence of Albus Dumbledore. He even swears in his presence. And while he quickly apologises ("I've gone temporarily deaf and have no idea what you just said" lol) this reveals a level of familiarity and comfort with Albus that the others clearly lack.

And then there's Albus and OH MY GOD that man is allergic to deep emotional connection. It would be funny (it is kinda funny) if it weren't so sad. They're on the topic of unsavoury family history and how society will judge you for it and how you should not let that teach you shame. This is a topic Albus is intimately familiar with. He started school under the assumption that he was the son of a muggle-hating criminal. And he couldn't even refute that notion because to do that he'd have to reveal the real reason for the attack. Later there were the squip rumours around his sister and then whatever people must have said when both she and her mother died under mysterious circumstances in a span of less then three months.

But does he mention any of this? No. His mind clearly goes there though. Hagrid talks about his shame about his giant-mother Harry replies by saying "look at my family, look at the Dursleys." And Albus goes "An excellent idea", but instead of getting into any of the very pertinente history above he aims for humour and deflection. He brings up a funny and frankly bizarre story of Aberforth doing something inappropriate with a goat (not getting into that can of worms because ... why?? Never understood that one from a doylist standpoint) and then throws in a good dash of irony by implying that Aberforth didn't know what people were writing about him considering he might not be able to read. And then he very quickly leaves.

It's textbook Albus deflection. Here was a real chance to emotionally bond with both Harry and, even more so, Hagrid. Especially considering that I'm very sure one of the reasons he's so fond of both of them is that he does know what it's like in their shoes. He knows them. He can empathise with them. He doesn't, however, allow them to know him, to empathise with him.

It honestly makes me so sad. Because everything we know about Albus and Hagrid suggests that there was a lot of mutual affection there. This interaction however suggests that, like with almost every relationship Albus ever has, he doesn't allow Hagrid to know him. I'm not sure he even knows how to open up at this point. (Until Harry violently demands openness from him at the end of book five. Oh, I could kiss him for that)

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thestral heart

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The three stages of shipping.

Stage 1: NOW KISS

Stage 2: NOW FUCK

Stage 3: NOW BREAK EACH OTHER’S HEARTS AND THEN MEND THEM SLOWLY WHILE TOUCHING EACH OTHER WITH REVERENT, TREMBLING HANDS

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(I realise now I've finished writing this: This post contains extensive discussion about suicidal ideations and suicide in general. Please be careful if you know that that's something you struggle with ❤)

I'm a bit insane about the prince's tale anyway but something that will absolutely not leave me is the narrative parallel that is set up between Albus' and Severus' conversation right after Lily's death and the one after Albus puts on the ring.

When Severus is at his lowest, when he feels like all is lost and he has failed in protecting the person that mattered most to him in the world, he expresses a wish to die.

And Albus, when confronted with the accute suicidality of a young man he's responsible for reacts in a way that honestly, shocked me more upon reading it the first time than anything Grindelwald-related that was revealed about him in DH prior to that.

He asks: "And what use would that be to anyone?"

It's shockingly cold. It's so far removed from anything we've seen from Albus so far.

Imo that's because before tpt we've only really ever see Albus when interacting with Harry. And Harry, a boy he views as everything he wishes he himself could be but never was, he loves. But Severus? In Severus he sees himself. Others have made this point before, so I won't get into it for long, but the parallels are clear: A young man from a broken home, intelligent and socially other (*cough* neurodivergent *cough*) to a point where they have trouble connecting with others, falls in with a bigoted ideology that promises him freedom and then pays by loosing someone important to them. And that's the point at which we find Severus in this scene. Albus knows it and how does he react? With coldness bordering on cruelty.

I made a point about the clear parallels between Albus and Severus and how Albus sees himself reflected in him because I think one can reverse-engineer the way that Albus deals with his own struggles from this. Someone correct me if I'm forgetting something, but besides Severus, Albus is the only person to very directly state a death wish in the books. (One could argue about Harry in the lost prophecy, but that's debatable.) He does so while drinking the potion ("Make it stop! I want to die!" And "KILL ME!") and yes, while the state he was in was clearly caused by the potion, I think the reason the potion worked at all was because it was drawing upon the drinker's preexisting despair. Whatever Kreacher or Regulus experienced during drinking and subsequently expressed would have been different. So I think it's save to assume that at some point or points during his life, Albus was actively suicidal. And the reason he didn't go trough with it can be found in the way he talks to Severus during his moment of deepest despair: "What use would your death be to anyone?"

It's honestly heartbreaking to me, to think of a young Albus Dumbledore, fresh off the death of his sister and mother (they died within about 2 month of each other after all), wanting to die and the only reason why he doesn't do it being that he still needs to be of use, he still needs to make up for Ariana's death, he needs to attone.

And I'm even more heartbroken when I consider that canon shows that he never truly leaves that mindset behind. When he sees Severus, sees himself reflected in his brokeness, he hasn't learned to be kinder. He passes on his own trauma by being just as harsh with Severus as he was with himself. (And yes, there was a strategy to it too, to bind Severus to the cause. But there was also the facette of wanting Severus to come back to the "right path". And how did he enact it? Through judgement, atonement and "making yourself useful", as he's done for himself for almost a century.)

The final nail that seals the coffin of this interpretation for me (does that metaphor even work? whatever) is the way that Albus brings about and then strategically uses his own death. First, the reason he dies is absolutely self-inflicted. He didn’t have to touch the ring to destroy the horcrux, it was 100% his wish to see Ariana again, to finally, again, atone. He says that he lost his head, forgot that it was a horcrux and thus most likely cursed. The fact that he was able to forget at all, though, says something about the value he places upon his own life. It matters nothing, if he can only reach Ariana.

And then, of course, he remembers his duty. He destroys the Horcrux within the stone, he calls Severus. He gets told he has a year.

He immediately accepts that, no bargaining, no grief, no sadness. It's quiet satisfaction and cold calculation from then on out. It's absolutely striking to me that more people don't read this as ... concerning.

The two scenes are some years apart in the timeline but within the prince's tale we read them almost back to back. Albus has just told us his answer to feelings of suicidality: Not until you've atoned. Not until your death is useful.

Well, he's just found a use for his own death. And he'll take it gladly.

There is absolutely room for interpretation here but and I don't think Albus has been actively suicidal this entire time. But I think I've made my case that he was suicidal at one point and that the feelings that were at the root of that suicidality never got properly adressed.

What's my point here? (apart from a characterisation detail and narrative parallel (between Albus and Severus) that makes me want to chew glass)

I think it's that scene within the prince's tale leaves a lot of people, rightfully, angry at Albus. Honestly, it does that to me, too. But I also can't help but feel sorry for him. It reveals to us the contempt he holds for himself reflected in his judgement of Severus. And while he has no right to treat Severus like that (who is after all, his own person) I also can't help but feel an enormous amount of sympathy.

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Lost followers after reblogging that whole thing about JKR being radicalized over the years, and that disturbs me.

Like if you think saying that people can be radicalized and manipulated into hate is somehow justifying it, yikes. And if you think that people are somehow just good or evil and that you are not at risk of buying into propaganda, have I got some very red flag news about that!

Idk if its because I am an older Millennial maybe (most who unfollowed were younger) but I watched a ton of that generation slide from one of the most progressive to the far right before my every eyes. Hell, my dad fought alongside his black friends in the Detroit race riots and now he watches Fox News 24/7 and talks about the border wall. Yet still claims he could never be racist because of how he used to be. He doesn’t even realize what he has become.

JKR isn’t a deluded old woman or innately evil, but in fact THE prime example of how well-meaning ignorance and privilege can be weaponized and encouraged down a pipeline, until it turns into a force of hate, and should be a cautionary tale about why educating and being open about these issues are necessary. Because there are those out there who will use those divisions and ignorance to their own ends. And just digging in our heels and saying “that could never be me!” is the very thing that puts you more at risk. I’ve lost so many loved ones down that pipeline and it is more slippery than most realize.

Stay alert, stay compassionate, stay humble, and make sure you move through life guided by reason rather than reaction. I love y’all and don’t want to see your passion twisted to get used against the world.

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Reblog if you're okay with people coming into your dms or ask box with storylines and rp ideas!

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Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, from a letter featured in The Life & Letters of Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky