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The Targaryens Did Not:

massacre a whole race or group of ethnically different people based on their ethnicity or race: they never “targeted the Westerosi for simply being Westori or belonging to a specific group of people or religion”  NOR  “kill in mass specific people such as Northerners or the Dornish people. So, they didn’t commit genocide either”

destroy religious sites or religious totems (weirwood trees)

force Westerosi lords nor peasants to adopt Valyrian cultural practices or habits. they didn’t “beat, tortured and killed the people they conquered for continuing to practice their culture rather than adopting Valyrian customs”

force Westerosi lords to discontinue their own cultural practices and religions, forgoe their house words, etc. just because they felt that Valyrian culture needed to be spread, they didn’t “conquer in the name of their Valyrian ancestry or on the name of Old Valyria” – and those that they did were actually better to have gone or legally abolished or welcomed by Westerosi to be abolished/outlawed: Ironborn raving/reaping AND right of the first night

“plunder resources or money from the conquered people and land to make themselves, Valyrian descendants, more powerful and wealthy to have dominion and subjugate the conquered people”

take and distribute lands previously belonging to the Westerosi lords to other Valyrians (which actually belonged to the Children of the Forest and the giants before the First Men arrived) and leave the Westerosi lords scraps of land to live off of

“force their bloodline onto the people they conquered in order to gain dominance of the conquered people”–Rhaenys the Conqueror (as I’ve come to call her) arranged marriages and there was never a real protest because these lords still wanted influence–if anything, the intermarriages made them reassured that they would have influence and a guarantee of security under the Targs because their children had bloodties and a stake in the Targs……just as ancient and medieval nobles have always done before actual race-based colonialism ever existed in real life

LINK to Inspired Post’s Ask by @kuramirocket

And the Direct Quote:

As I have always said, the Targaryens are NOT colonizers. The Targaryens are conquerors yes, but they did not colonize nor did they commit genocide. And this comes from me an indigenous woc whose people and country have suffered and continue to suffer from actual real life genocide and colonialism; not to mention that we, us, personally have generational trauma and history with actual colonialism and genocide still to this day. We know well what genocide and colonialism is and its negative impacts and consequences because we come from a people that suffered and still suffer from the actions of colonizers and those who commited genocide against us and our people.

But going back to House Targaryen, the Targaryens also never forced their bloodline onto the people they conquered in order to gain dominance of the conquered people. On the contrary, they bolstered marriages between the different kingdoms and their own house to stop the squabbling that had been occurring between the different kingdoms before the conquest.

The Targaryens also never beat, tortured and killed the people they conquered for continuing to practice their culture rather than adopting Valyrian customs. The Targaryens, most notably Dany, actually adapted to the culture of the Seven Kingdoms and the people they have interacted with. If anything, Westeros were the intolerant ones concerning the Targaryens practices - most notably incestious marriages. As a whole, the Targaryens respected and let the Kingdoms continue mostly as they were with their own beliefs and culture.

The Targaryens didn’t plunder resources or money from the conquered people and land to make themselves, Valyrian descendants, more powerful and wealthy to have dominion and subjugate the conquered people. The Targaryens also didn’t conquer in the name of their Valyrian ancestry or on the name of Old Valyria. They didn’t conquer to further extend their own Valyrian power or threshold or create a New Valyria. The conquered people still held their culture, titles and lands.

The Targaryens also never targeted the Westori for simply being Westori or belonging to a specific group of people or religion. The Targaryens didn’t kill in mass specific people such as Northerners or the Dornish people. So, they didn’t commit genocide either.

Honestly, it’s not that hard to understand the difference between conquest, colonialism and genocide if antis actually paid attention to and actually cared about what poc had to say about genocide and colonialism considering we have a long history with real-life genocide and colonialism to this day.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

History of Step

What is Stepping?

What is Step?

Stepping or step dancing is “a percussive dance in which the participant’s body is used to produce complex rhythms and sounds through a mixture of footsteps, spoken word, and hand-claps,” writes the African American Registry.

Step has its origins in Africa, as dancing has been a large part of traditional African culture for centuries.

Calling Step a "bizarre silent dance without music" has to be one of the wilder antiblack racist descriptions I've ever heard of stepping lmao. Anyway if you see the video, it's step!!! They're stepping!! It's a Black American form of dance!!

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

am I the only one who's scared for the upcoming Aegon the Conqueror adaptation...? The Dance is a lost case. It's destroyed, ruined, made into a minced meat and served as dog's food. It's unsalvaegable atp. But HBO wants to do the same to Aegon and his sisters and it makes me both furious and frightened. Mattson Tomlin will be the screenwriter. Ok, so far so good. He seems like a decent guy. He didn't post anything that'd imply he's going to turn this series into his own fanfic. But what next? I've researched the process of making a tv show, and if I'm not mistaken, Tomlin's sole job is to write the "core" of the story (the sequence of events, how it might begin and on what note should it end, a rough draft of dialoques, things like that) And then that script will be passed forward to five other screenwrites who can do with it whatever they want. What if Condal and Hess - the biggest f**cking hacks in the whole world - will be among those screenwriters chosen by HBO?? It's going be a nightmare. Oh god, the villainization of Rhaenys and Visenya while also making them a total weaklings without ambition or agenda. And yes, it's more likely than not that these asshats will make the Conquest, as well. They're HBO's favorites, since they made the ever successful House of the Alicent.

Oh, and I'm sure they gonna fuck the dragons just as much as their riders. Do you want to see Aegon riding a saggy, rotting Balerion with a dropping neck? Well that's exactly what you gonna get.

They hate Targaryens and everything that's associated with them.

Oh no, I'm right there with you anon. I honestly hope this show somehow dies like the Snow show. His perception of Daenerys is extremely telling of his inability to understand the bigger picture of the story.

Him accusing Dany of being "genocidal" in season 3 is fucking ridiculous. He's somehow construing her actions to overthrow a monstrous and oppressive system as genocide. Like, media literacy is just not present apparently. Since Dany shares parallels with the Conquerors, this perception is very... concerning. So, from my perspective, this is already doomed to be another shit show.

Considering how often people in the fandom like to interpret the relationship of the Conquerors as strained at best, I have very little confidence anyone HBO hires will be much different. HBO definitely hates the idea of any healthy relationships, romantic or otherwise, as we've seen in GOT and HOTD. I definitely think Visenya will end up hating Aegon and/or Rhaenys, and Aegon will probably resent Visenya and abuse Rhaenys.

I've always thought the GOT dragons were extremely uninspired. They dulled their colors and made them all look the same. I liked the HOTD dragons a lot more; but I agree that Vhagar looks kinda bad (she looks like a turtle 😭). Since Balerion is supposed to be older than Vhagar is in HOTD, they might go with the same idea for him, which is sad. Especially since they did a good job with Caraxes and Syrax (aside from keeping her the same size the whole show).

It's so sad and frustrating how determined HBO are to just destroy everything connected to ASOIAF. Time and again, they've proven that they just don't understand what GRRM wrote at all.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

I find it interesting how the same people who support literal usurpation are so pissy about how Rhaenyra "got Otto removed" as Hand. As if Rhaenyra had this whole conspiracy in place instead of simply defending herself and her claim.

Otto was already getting on Viserys' bad side due to his constant haranguing to get Aegon made heir. The spying on Rhaenyra was the last straw after two years of trying to undermine her and Viserys' wishes.

TG stans trying to portray this as a massive injustice is another instance of them being insanely hypocritical. Otto wasn't a good Hand, he wasn't some kind of marxist reformer trying to better the kingdom. He was a manipulative and ambitious snake who was constantly plotting to better his family's position and ultimately get his blood on the throne.

Otto was Rhaenyra's biggest political rival by the time of episode three. She knew he wanted her deposed and married off to some lord away from KL, so she took action. He wasn't just harassing Viserys, he was having a teenage girl stalked to try to catch her in a compromising position.

Otto started the rivalry and the use of underhanded methods and he lost, go cry about it. Rhaenyra was protecting herself, but it was Viserys who made the call to remove Otto as Hand. Viserys isn't just a puppet controlled by Rhaenyra, he's the king. He may not be as proactive as other kings and is willfully blind to issues in his family, but he's his own person with autonomy.

TG stans are bitter that Rhaenyra was beating their faction before the battle lines were fully drawn. Otto played his hand and lost, just like the greens lost the war. Aside from that, their anger over Otto's removal from court shows yet another facet of their hypocrisy. They're bitching about an "injustice" while rooting for literal treason. TG stans are unreal lmao

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

US-backed Israhell has been and continues to starve and deprive Palestinian people. Having access to basic necessities like food and water is a HUMAN RIGHT. This is beyond horrific.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

https://www.tumblr.com/the-daily-dreamer/703632217679790080/aemond-and-aegon-should-go-full-uno-reverse-on?source=share

It's hilarious how TG fans don't get how A. Rhae's boys are all legal claimed by THE KING and their paternal grandfather and B. if believed, the king would have had to put ALL OF THEM (including baby Joffery and a five- and six-year-old) to death or exile. While Aemond is a kinslayer of a peace envoy and was a little boy and SUPPOSE to be granted protection from harm due to being a peace envoy.

See I think they do know, they just don't care. TG stans only care about morality and honestly if they can try to use it to make their favs look better.

To them, Rhaenyra daring to choose the father of her children and not getting the punishment they believe she deserves is worse than anything Aegon and Aemond have done. They believe that Luke, a literal child and envoy, deserved his death simply because his parents weren't married.

It doesn't matter that in the eyes of the law, historians, and literally every lord except the greens, Luke is Laenor's son. It doesn't matter that his life and those of his brothers and mother were constantly put in danger by what they were saying. Yes, everyone knew, but no one gave a flying fuck, and that pisses them off. Everyone should follow the same archaic and repressive ideals Alicent adores, except when they apply to men.

It is disturbing that they want to compare Rhaenyra protecting her children from that harpy named Alicent and her monstrous sons to Aemond murdering an unarmed boy. Aemond attacked Luke unprovoked while he was under the protection of Westerosi laws and conventions (protection of envoys and kinslaying). Like mother like son I suppose. Aemond is a mommy's boy, so it's no surprise he'd emulate her blatant disrespect and disregarding of actual laws and the lives of innocents.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

My cat ate my fucking Popeyes, and still had the nerve to jump into my bed like nothing ever happened.

Like if she wasn't so gd cute, I'd kick her out, but....

How could I refuse that face??

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Blood Purity and the ASOIAF Fandom

I find it very ironic how Targaryen antis scream about "blood purity" then turn around and support and play into blood purity themselves. Specifically I'm talking about Stark stans and stansas/jonsas.

The Starks canonically prefer to marry with Northern houses, in other words: other First Men. This tradition gives them a rather small gene pool, meaning that incest is pretty much a necessity for them to carry it on. Uncle-niece, aunt-nephew, and cousin weddings were all allowable, and cousin weddings were rather commonplace.

What all that means is that the Starks practice blood purity. Yes, it's different from how the Targaryens did it, but the only differences are that the Valyrians allowed brother-sister marriages and there are only two other Valyrian houses to marry. The Celtigars barely even count, due to how little Valyrian blood is left in them. Both the Starks and Targaryens did marry outside their preferred gene pools. However, that fact doesn't negate that they both practice blood purity.

Stark stans who condemn the Targaryens for marrying to preserve their Valyrian blood are hypocrites. The Starks prefer to marry other First Men and allow certain forms of close incest, if they had as few options as the Targaryens did, they would probably change their views on brother-sister marriages.

Stansas tend to follow the same patterns as Stark stans. They ignore Stark incest and talk about "super special Stark genes" in an almost cult-like fashion. Stansas will go on and on about how the Starks are very special and their (specifically Sansa's) blood is the key to saving the world. Now, there is magic blood in ASOIAF, and the Starks are the one of the families with this. However, the sheer hypocrisy of Stansas and Stark stans to embrace and cheer on this fact for the Starks while simultaneously despising the Targaryens for the same fact is interesting.

Jonsas, who are all stansas just to be clear, are probably the most hypocritical in this group. Jonsa shippers will espouse both anti-incest and anti-blood purity arguments, especially in regards to the Targaryens. However, at the same time, they will write posts about how the incest between Jon and Sansa wouldn't be wrong and how Stark blood is superior. Just like the Stark stans and stansas, they are unironically supporting Stark blood purity. All three of these groups will also write about how the Targaryen bloodline needs to be wiped out.

So basically: Stark stans, stansas, and jonsas all not only support Stark blood purity, but also the eradication of Valyrian blood in Westeros. The hypocrisy is riveting.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Maybe this Will Put Things into Perspective about Rhaenyra & Cersei's Kids Being Bastards or Not...

Feudalism is an early period or a economic phase of a millennia-managed con against anyone who isn't a noble man, and most men are the active conmen.

Neither set of kids were ever declared bastards. Nor were they ever or "acknowledged" as bastards, because noblemen "acknowledge" a child they father onto another woman. noblewomen, in theory, can, but if their having had sex premaritally/extramaritally isn't already known outside of the household they do not. Because to do without it already being known (like with Alys Turnberry) would publicly ruin her prospects for marriage in the future, ruin her reputation, and likely muddy the family's as well.

Robert probably would have removed those kids from the line of succession had he known (and he didn't) if not outight remove them from the mortal coil. But instead, he got gutted. Therefore, Cersei's kids are not officially or "legally" bastards. That prior declaration is what is required to have them "legally" known as bastards.

Bastardry has always been more of a legal question in its nature than a biological fact of nature. Of course, we the audience and most of ther know that Rhaenyra's kids aren't Laenor's biologically; Ned correctly deduced that Cersei's weren't Robert's biologically. However, he was never able to get his information to matter "legally", or to get it to Robert to make a decision on. Whereas Laenor, Corlys, Viserys all knew and decided to maintain the boys as their heirs. And they made this decision based on the lack of knowledge the public has/what they can control. Which is often what any noble does; once again, GRRM has explicitly stated that the lords of Westeros often take advantage to twist "laws" (customs) according to the circumstances around them & their own desires, and it's is not exclusive to bastards already "acknowledged".

The purpose of marriage as an institution is entirely for the lord/nobleman's benefit. It is an institution that was created and developed entirely for a man's political interests (a father's, a brother's, a husband's, a son's, etc.). And it was made to consolidate/monopolize the noble woman's (or really any woman) body and reproductive labor so as to produce living products to pass on the resources/titles mainly the lord and his ancestors have aggregated. To try to make sure those resources are passed to the people the lord wants passed own to, the sexual purity culture imposed on women and girls works to construct shame & suppress female extramarital and premarital sexual activity, which is an aspect of her overall agency. Her agency is re-confined/socially reduced to her sexual activity because she has no other primary function nor legal privileges aside form being a wife, mother, daughter, virgin, etc. Or sometimes the protectoress of her husband's/son's assets: the castle at times of war/siege when the lord is not present; director of his household's activities and servants by being its head overseer of accounts. Therefore, the lord is literally claiming his wife as his effective property through her womb & this is often why when we see women like Daena sleeping with a man not her husband, it is an act of reinforcing her authority or political agency in spite of how she was raised to see her own body.

Finally, the constructed demarcation of bastard vs "trueborn" offspring in Westeros/real EU medieval societies is also meant to

Think about it: why do we not have a world or society (fictional or not) where even though the wife births a child not her husband's the husband's do not willfully or are "legally" compelled to adopt that child as their own, effectively de-fathering the biological father? Because men want to feel as if they have as close to total ownership over female companionship and labor so they consolidate power to themselves and not to women. Having all these designations of gender and "bastardry" that everyone are compelled to follow makes that easier without expending energy or sharing power. Medieval customs put the social-legal identification of "bastard" from the institution of marriage, its compulsions on women, and their reproductive labor/bodies/uteruses being claimed by the men who are "licensed" to own them. Which is why when we say that neither Cersei's nor Rhaenyra's kids are "bastards" it is true, because the purpose of bastardry is to attempt to reclaim the product of reproductive labor and Viserys/Corlys/Laenor/Robert have already done that. To protest about how Robert didn't know about his kids not being his kids is really to protest how he didn't not get the products of Cersei's reproductive labor in the usual male-prioritized business of objectifying female labor that is intrinsic in this feudal society. Whereas Viserys/Laenor/Corlys accepted the products of Rhaenyra's reproductive labor.

All this is also why I really don't care for the impassioned argument of these women were being "unfair" to the system (Rhaenyra) or to their husbands, fathers etc. (Cersei) or them being "liars" or "destructive". Feudalism is itself an objectifying, unfair, unequal system. It is designed to benefit men and mainly men inherently, and directly at the expense of women who risk death itself while a man fathering any sort of kid never risks death. Men lie and destroy the women who birth their children, manage their household, protect their castle, rear their children....and it is all "licensed" and justified under the constructed institutions of marriage, oath-making, knighthood and principles of chastity, virginity, the different sub-meanings of "honor" for men vs women, etc. Men are themselves already objectifying or making an exclusive economic use of their female counterparts as well as going back on their vows (a deal that is still in feudal marriages, even for men) through their socially-allowed extramarital and premarital affairs producing bastards.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

that you bake of this

I find it interesting how the first poster is accusing groups of TB stans of not handling criticism, when TG stans (particularly Alicent stans) are the ones most often "melting and crying" over criticism.

Pointing out Alicent's hypocrisy and cruelty, the fact that Aegon is a rapist, and Aemond was a coward and cruel are all met with screaming. They flat out deny any facts of canon that show how awful their favs are. I've been told to kill myself multiple times just for pointing out actual canon things Alicent has done. Like, the call is coming from inside the house TG lmao.

I don't deny that there are certain people who claim to be TB but have absolutely braindead takes (namely certain Daemon stans, which is very sad). But the fact of the matter is, those people are a very small percentage. The percentage of insane people who can't stand criticism is wayyyyyyy larger in the TG fandom.

Most of TG stans' so-called criticism of Rhaenyra is just calling her a whore, saying she roll over and take any injustice, and that she's not nice enough. Of course we get annoyed and angry with that, it's not even actual criticism; it's just noise. The few times they actually have valid critiques of Rhaenyra, they still tie it in with calling her a fat whore. Anything of worth they could possibly offer is always completely bound to their intense hatred of Rhaenyra.

No, Rhaenyra isn't perfect, we don't expect people to just blindly worship her. She's not a good person, she's classist, and she wrongfully ordered the executions of innocent people twice. However, she's the rightful heir, that's literally a fact. We expect Rhaenyra to be supported because she's a victim of the patriarchy and misogynists. She doesn't have to be your favorite character, but the fact remains that she's the rightful queen and the Greens are usurpers and warmongers.

As for the whole "team smallfolk" idea: it's basically always used as an excuse to be blatantly hateful towards Rhaenyra. The "team smallfolk" and "team neutral" people never attack the Greens with the same vigor as they do Rhaenyra and her family. In fact, most of them even say that they're "green leaning".

The contradiction in this idea of supporting the smallfolk and the Greens simultaneously is that if the Greens hadn't interfered, the Dance and the deaths of the thousands of smallfolk wouldn't have happened. Rhaenyra and the Blacks didn't start the war, the Greens did. The Greens committed the most atrocities and refused every single offer of peace Rhaenyra offered.

I think the second poster is hilarious though. I don't know if they're TG, I assume so based on the subreddit. I don't know if they meant to, but they pointed out just how hypocritical the first poster's mini rant was. The first poster tacked on "Also they hate "Team Smallfolk," and the second poster pointed out how most of TG also just don't give a shit. Even if the second poster isn't TG and was just going to that subreddit to start something, there are still so many TG stans who admit that the smallfolk don't matter to them. I even had an anon once tell me that the maids Aegon raped don't matter to them as an answer to why they like and support him. I'm not going to say that they're right on not caring, but at least they're not hiding behind that false moral superiority.

Like I said earlier, the Greens were the ones who caused the deaths of thousands of smallfolk, both indirectly by starting the war and directly through Aemond and Daeron. The Greens didn't care about the smallfolk in any way, they only cared about power. Any TG stans who act like they're "better for the smallfolk" are delusional.

To sum up my thoughts: the first poster is projecting. Every single one of their criticisms apply better to their own group. The delusion and false superiority that poster displays are hilarious and frustrating.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

If Alicent Hightower (show) has no haters, then I’m dead.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

I’ve noticed a trend where TG come onto other peoples posts to write a bunch of self righteous horseshit and then immediately blocking the person to stop any further discussion.

It’s very weird behaviour.

The ultimate proof that they don't actually have a valid argument.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

GODS BLESS

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Nettles and Sheepstealer

I think Nettles is Daemon's daughter. What do you think?

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Rhaenys killing smallfolk is so…. Like wtf, and then people be like “Kinslaying is the worst crime there is! She’d be stupid to do it!”, first HOTD never introduces the notion of kinslaying, and killing hundreds of people is a crime too! She is already a criminal for what she did, why stop halfway if you’re going full murderer ? If you’re gonna commit a decapitation worthy offence, then you might as well kill the people who are a legitimate threat to your future great grandchildren and granddaughters themselves.

Them coming out saying that Rhaenys didn’t kill them because it’s not her war…. Lol, it was her war the moment she agreed to betroth her granddaughters to Rhaenyra’s sons. Her family (the little that is left of it) is in legitimate danger and she passed up the opportunity to kill people who WERE ACTIVELY PLANNING ON KILLING HER FAMILY ANYWAYS. (Yes, I know it was mostly Rhaenyra and Daemon but Jace and Luke and Joff would have to go too and Daemon is the father of Rhaena and Baela, the twins have legal claim to the throne, so no ways they letting that slide either).

Yeah, this has been my argument as well. I will never not be angry about this damned episode, esp this scene.

My biggest gripe about this fool of an episode is that if Rhaenys says she doesn't want to "be involved" in "their" war is that in ANY iteration of these events where Baela & Rhaena exist without turning this into a full-fledged AU like sweetestpopcorn's "The Black and the Greens", Rhaenys will ALWAYS be "involved"...

because those girls are DAEMON'S DAUGHTERS and ONE OF THEM LIVES WITH DAEMON AND RHAENYRA!!! And this Rhaenys constantly has said she primarily cares about her own kids and grandchildren, not Viserys, Daemon, or Rhaenyra...so what gives?!

In a world where these strategy-minded people would, you know, think strategy...Rhaenys practically spoon-fed them a public reason to go to war and assume a protective-justice persona!!!

To further paint the blacks as violence mongerers or even just shit-starters, even with those killed being peasants, bc the sheer number of people killed simultaneously who live around you & around your castle who have historically been a part of some Faith-led attacks against the crown (Aenys, Maegor, Rhaena & her brother Aegon--the Poor Fellows) is astronomical. Killing that many smallfolk doesn't pay and rather makes for a larger number of angrier smallfolk with a reason to be angrier than average. You'd think she'd realize that and idk, maybe not kill dozens if not thousands of smallfolk.

Otto will always look to them as possible rivals because of that connection to the person he thinks will likely always contend with him/anyone for power, espe after he includes the younger boys' hostage-taking in his terms in episode 10. Aside from Otto--who had a grip on Alicent's decision-making until it came to Rhaenyra (as if Rhaenyra doesn't come with her kids, who Alicent has accepted the risk of exile or total ruination for 10 years, but I digress).

And Alicent--by the next season's 2 trailers--appears to go back to Otto as a consultant and guide as to how the greens will face the blacks, so we can't argue that she will not escape his influence even with her allowing herself to understand his manipulativeness. She obviously didn't want a war and has tried to stave it off by holding Rhaenys hostage and sending that damned page to Rhaenyra with Otto's terms--that is if she actually sent it--she also sets up a possible war through usurping Rhaenyra in the first place! And Alicent isn't actually fighting against Rhaenyra for the sake of "the realm" but for for her own position as the mother to a possible king/wife of a past king and the lives of her kids.

Even in the book--if you are inclined to believe that she believes this and/or has sincerely taken Otto's fear of Daemon as her own maybe bc similarly to the show he instilled in her that fear of him--Alicent brings up Daemon's supposed bloodthirstiness and inevitable murder of her kids as reason to usurp Rhaenyra ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

As for the kinslaying part, they refused to insert Rhaenyra's lines of that, instead making her grab Otto's pendant and throwing it off the bridge in a much more flaccid version of what she does with Orwyle's chains in the book. Without the context of her giving Aegon that chance to withdraw AND criticizing Orwyle taking the green side and basically going against his own maester code of following traditions and laws, show!Rhaenyra's protests against Otto is more losing the desired cool & careful, wise reservedness that HotD already favors over original "proud" book!Rhaenyra. And I think that it's to give the Dance story this faux measure of "balance" that ozymalek talks about HERE:

People often argue whether HOTD showrunners are biased in favor of Team Black or Team Green. I think the answer to this question can't be encapsulated within the context of "bias", at least not fully. They are biased for both and neither at the same time and it's difficult to explain, but I will try to articulate how I see it. The Dance era in "Fire and Blood" is something that will fundamentally cause the feelings of cognitive dissonance. I think this is why people initially disliked this book when it first came out. It did not provide easy answers, it was written as a historical account, the in-universe historians were clearly biased. People, however, had trouble realizing who the historians are biased for and against. Team Green would have you think that "F&B" is biased against the Greens, because their allegiance as maesters clearly being to Hightowers notwithstanding, they could not evade simple historical facts: that most of the kingdom supported Rhaenyra, that Greens were horrendously misogynistic and that her usurpation was clearly wrong. That's why, approaching it from the "choose your favorite war criminal" point of view, it was difficult for Greens to accept that their preferred side is so cartoonishly evil - obviously bias must have been involved, even though the only pro-Black narrator of F&B is Mushroom, the rest are Greens. The maester's anti-Targaryen bias, however, manages to sneak in and mess with the reader's balance, causing said cognitive dissonance. It's hard to deal with it as a reader, let alone as a showrunner who's trying to adapt a story in which not everything is set in stone. They incorrectly assumed that, because they are constantly forced to question what is happening in the story, the bias is with the underlying idea that there was a correct side. As such, they assumed that all the inconsistencies result from maesters not choosing to view it that way. Ryan Condal repeatedly stated that he does not want watchers to pick sides, while George RR Martin embraces it and even encourages it (and I think that he himself has picked the Blacks). Such is our nature as human beings. So they decided that they have to balance the scales. Because Greens are poorly developed, they added more characterization for them that contradicts their book personas (abused child bride meow meow Alicent who is clueless about the plans that in the books she herself set in motion, for example) while simultaneously taking the characterization AWAY from team Black members. Rhaena and Baela barely have any lines, and though this may be the case of simple racism, it's pretty telling that they ignored the fact that Baela is tomboyish and has short hair. Rheanyra herself is so toned down that she does not resemble her book counterpart in the slightest, making her seem weak, stupid and undecided. Daemon straight up becomes a villain and a wife murderer rather than a throughoutly gray character (book!Rhea Royce unambiguously dies after a hawking accident while Daemon is still fighting in the Stepstones); that's because Team Black was in a desperate need for a corrupting influence in order to balance the scales. But some Greens aren't spared from this treatment either. Otto is made much worse than he was in the books, he straight up pimps out his teenage daughter so that he can elevate House Hightower. While Aegon is also a sex pest in the books, showing him openly rape a lowborn woman was a risky decision (as was the not very subtle implication that he rapes Helaena as well); not to mention that the child fighting pits come from Mushroom, whose entire gimmick is making shit up. So neither side is really spared from being villified and whitewashed, depending on whom we look. The showrunners were fully committed to making choosing sides a confusing process, making the cognitive dissonance of this story to be even stronger. This is why they aren't really biased for or against anyone.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Rhaenys killing smallfolk is so…. Like wtf, and then people be like “Kinslaying is the worst crime there is! She’d be stupid to do it!”, first HOTD never introduces the notion of kinslaying, and killing hundreds of people is a crime too! She is already a criminal for what she did, why stop halfway if you’re going full murderer ? If you’re gonna commit a decapitation worthy offence, then you might as well kill the people who are a legitimate threat to your future great grandchildren and granddaughters themselves.

Them coming out saying that Rhaenys didn’t kill them because it’s not her war…. Lol, it was her war the moment she agreed to betroth her granddaughters to Rhaenyra’s sons. Her family (the little that is left of it) is in legitimate danger and she passed up the opportunity to kill people who WERE ACTIVELY PLANNING ON KILLING HER FAMILY ANYWAYS. (Yes, I know it was mostly Rhaenyra and Daemon but Jace and Luke and Joff would have to go too and Daemon is the father of Rhaena and Baela, the twins have legal claim to the throne, so no ways they letting that slide either).

Yeah, this has been my argument as well. I will never not be angry about this damned episode, esp this scene.

My biggest gripe about this fool of an episode is that if Rhaenys says she doesn't want to "be involved" in "their" war is that in ANY iteration of these events where Baela & Rhaena exist without turning this into a full-fledged AU like sweetestpopcorn's "The Black and the Greens", Rhaenys will ALWAYS be "involved"...

because those girls are DAEMON'S DAUGHTERS and ONE OF THEM LIVES WITH DAEMON AND RHAENYRA!!! And this Rhaenys constantly has said she primarily cares about her own kids and grandchildren, not Viserys, Daemon, or Rhaenyra...so what gives?!

In a world where these strategy-minded people would, you know, think strategy...Rhaenys practically spoon-fed them a public reason to go to war and assume a protective-justice persona!!!

To further paint the blacks as violence mongerers or even just shit-starters, even with those killed being peasants, bc the sheer number of people killed simultaneously who live around you & around your castle who have historically been a part of some Faith-led attacks against the crown (Aenys, Maegor, Rhaena & her brother Aegon--the Poor Fellows) is astronomical. Killing that many smallfolk doesn't pay and rather makes for a larger number of angrier smallfolk with a reason to be angrier than average. You'd think she'd realize that and idk, maybe not kill dozens if not thousands of smallfolk.

Otto will always look to them as possible rivals because of that connection to the person he thinks will likely always contend with him/anyone for power, espe after he includes the younger boys' hostage-taking in his terms in episode 10. Aside from Otto--who had a grip on Alicent's decision-making until it came to Rhaenyra (as if Rhaenyra doesn't come with her kids, who Alicent has accepted the risk of exile or total ruination for 10 years, but I digress).

And Alicent--by the next season's 2 trailers--appears to go back to Otto as a consultant and guide as to how the greens will face the blacks, so we can't argue that she will not escape his influence even with her allowing herself to understand his manipulativeness. She obviously didn't want a war and has tried to stave it off by holding Rhaenys hostage and sending that damned page to Rhaenyra with Otto's terms--that is if she actually sent it--she also sets up a possible war through usurping Rhaenyra in the first place! And Alicent isn't actually fighting against Rhaenyra for the sake of "the realm" but for for her own position as the mother to a possible king/wife of a past king and the lives of her kids.

Even in the book--if you are inclined to believe that she believes this and/or has sincerely taken Otto's fear of Daemon as her own maybe bc similarly to the show he instilled in her that fear of him--Alicent brings up Daemon's supposed bloodthirstiness and inevitable murder of her kids as reason to usurp Rhaenyra ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

As for the kinslaying part, they refused to insert Rhaenyra's lines of that, instead making her grab Otto's pendant and throwing it off the bridge in a much more flaccid version of what she does with Orwyle's chains in the book. Without the context of her giving Aegon that chance to withdraw AND criticizing Orwyle taking the green side and basically going against his own maester code of following traditions and laws, show!Rhaenyra's protests against Otto is more losing the desired cool & careful, wise reservedness that HotD already favors over original "proud" book!Rhaenyra. And I think that it's to give the Dance story this faux measure of "balance" that ozymalek talks about HERE:

People often argue whether HOTD showrunners are biased in favor of Team Black or Team Green. I think the answer to this question can't be encapsulated within the context of "bias", at least not fully. They are biased for both and neither at the same time and it's difficult to explain, but I will try to articulate how I see it. The Dance era in "Fire and Blood" is something that will fundamentally cause the feelings of cognitive dissonance. I think this is why people initially disliked this book when it first came out. It did not provide easy answers, it was written as a historical account, the in-universe historians were clearly biased. People, however, had trouble realizing who the historians are biased for and against. Team Green would have you think that "F&B" is biased against the Greens, because their allegiance as maesters clearly being to Hightowers notwithstanding, they could not evade simple historical facts: that most of the kingdom supported Rhaenyra, that Greens were horrendously misogynistic and that her usurpation was clearly wrong. That's why, approaching it from the "choose your favorite war criminal" point of view, it was difficult for Greens to accept that their preferred side is so cartoonishly evil - obviously bias must have been involved, even though the only pro-Black narrator of F&B is Mushroom, the rest are Greens. The maester's anti-Targaryen bias, however, manages to sneak in and mess with the reader's balance, causing said cognitive dissonance. It's hard to deal with it as a reader, let alone as a showrunner who's trying to adapt a story in which not everything is set in stone. They incorrectly assumed that, because they are constantly forced to question what is happening in the story, the bias is with the underlying idea that there was a correct side. As such, they assumed that all the inconsistencies result from maesters not choosing to view it that way. Ryan Condal repeatedly stated that he does not want watchers to pick sides, while George RR Martin embraces it and even encourages it (and I think that he himself has picked the Blacks). Such is our nature as human beings. So they decided that they have to balance the scales. Because Greens are poorly developed, they added more characterization for them that contradicts their book personas (abused child bride meow meow Alicent who is clueless about the plans that in the books she herself set in motion, for example) while simultaneously taking the characterization AWAY from team Black members. Rhaena and Baela barely have any lines, and though this may be the case of simple racism, it's pretty telling that they ignored the fact that Baela is tomboyish and has short hair. Rheanyra herself is so toned down that she does not resemble her book counterpart in the slightest, making her seem weak, stupid and undecided. Daemon straight up becomes a villain and a wife murderer rather than a throughoutly gray character (book!Rhea Royce unambiguously dies after a hawking accident while Daemon is still fighting in the Stepstones); that's because Team Black was in a desperate need for a corrupting influence in order to balance the scales. But some Greens aren't spared from this treatment either. Otto is made much worse than he was in the books, he straight up pimps out his teenage daughter so that he can elevate House Hightower. While Aegon is also a sex pest in the books, showing him openly rape a lowborn woman was a risky decision (as was the not very subtle implication that he rapes Helaena as well); not to mention that the child fighting pits come from Mushroom, whose entire gimmick is making shit up. So neither side is really spared from being villified and whitewashed, depending on whom we look. The showrunners were fully committed to making choosing sides a confusing process, making the cognitive dissonance of this story to be even stronger. This is why they aren't really biased for or against anyone.