saltoftheearths

[saltoftheearths]

Where’s the case? Where’s Loki?

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I think the reason I feel particularly betrayed and embittered by Marvel is because when the MCU first began, there was just so much potential. 

And I’m not just speaking from a Loki fan’s POV (though it’s mostly from that side), but the way Marvel movies handled every aspect of storytelling, all of their characters were finely written and fleshed out, even the seemingly minor side characters (Agent Coulson, anyone?). The plot was interesting and not too convoluted (*side eyes IW and Endgame*), they made room for both serious drama and witty, intelligent humor (which then died completely with Ragnarok). Everyone had someone they could root for, which brings me around to being a Loki fan. 

When Loki was introduced, and in the following years and movies after, he became an idol for anyone who has been shit on repeatedly by society just for being who they are, and who then refused to take it anymore and began to punch back. 

I mean there’s a reason why the vast majority of Loki fans belong to the LGBTQA+ community, as well as being neurodivergent in some way. And the reason that Loki’s story touched us particularly instead of any other character, was because: 

A. We got to see his fall from grace, and we recognized it as something many of us have gone through in the past. We recognize the little pushes and steps that eventually leads someone down a self-destructive and dark path. And the only reason many of us aren’t still down that path is because we have resources and support systems that, unfortunately, Loki didn’t have access too. But that isolation in and of itself was also extremely relatable, because it’s something we all experienced before we found people who helped us back into the light.  

B. Loki’s struggles and feelings of betrayal and ostricization actually brought out the darker aspects of what that can do to a person. We live in this fucked up society that expects people who are abused and bullied and marginalized to remain Good and Kind and Pure, when in reality (and I am speaking from experience) when you are constantly being victimized and targeted, often for reasons you don’t entirely understand, that causes you to lash out. It causes you to become angry, even violent (even if you’re only daydreaming about causing harm to people). People will back you into a corner and then act surprised when you bite back at them. And then once you do all of that, once you start fighting back, society suddenly decides that you are a Villain/Criminal, and that you deserve the punishment you give. But they don’t even think about punishing the people who made you that way. 

So yeah. The fact that we were actually getting to explore what causes so many villains to become villains, and why so many marginalized people identify with villains, was exciting. It was exciting for me, at least, who saw the same kind of anger I harbored towards the world in Loki. 

We were finally going to get our story told but then…. 

Then…. 

Then Infinity War happened. And Gagnarok. And Endgame…. 

And we found ourselves, once again, pushed into the shadows. 

All of the heroes that comply to what society dictates is a hero get their moment in the sun, and we are once again told that all we’ll ever be are just villains and criminals, unworthy (I fucking hate that word) of redemption or love or a chance to prove ourselves. 

Marvel was supposed to be different. Marvel was supposed to be the thing that gave every single person a chance in the spotlight. But Marvel just… let us down. 

….So fuck you, Marvel. 

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Loki from behind.

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^^^^ This. What an apt analogy. :'c

Short answer: that's why half of the fandom hates you.

Long answer: nothing easier than to ruin and destroy things. It takes skill to actually build and create something and even more to execute someone else's vision the way it was intended to be or bring to life characters that are alreday rooted in fiction and people's imagination. You have to be able to understand it and see what is good about it and why people have loved it and related to it and then carry it on in respectful and interesting way that both preserves what came before and ads some originality to it. And for that you have to know to put your ego aside and acknowledge other people and their opinions and feelings which is something you are utterly unable to do.

Honestly I thought my rant would be longer and I do have a lot more to say but I don't feel like wasting any more time on this clown.

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The Victim Controversy

It seems that one of the problems with Loki is that he isn’t “a perfect victim”. He didn’t quietly succumb to his fate, neatly suffering in silence while treated unfairly, remaining kind and forgiving when taunted by others. 

Instead, he snapped and went “no more Mr. Nice Guy”. He decided to do exactly what he’d seen others do and get away with and why shouldn’t he? “Fuck them, I’ll carve out a space for myself with blood, sweat, and tears and I’ll show them exactly who they’re dealing with.”

This is where sympathy ends for some people.

They can only care about a character who stoically accepts his role as a victim, not someone who turns the game around and becomes a predator himself. To them, he can only be redeemed if he returns to the fold and once again follows the rules. He can only be loved if he humiliates himself and expresses his feelings in a way that doesn’t inconvenience others.

As long as he refuses, such people will deny his pain and the legitimacy of his anger, retcon his history and claim that he’s throughout evil.

Because only the perfect victim deserves to be loved.

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Tom Hiddleston Loki at SDCC 2013, Part Four. (X)

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You guys saw Avengers right?” Hiddleston joked to the cheering crowd. “So he’s still that guy. And just about the last thing that happened to him was he got Hulk-smashed. So there’s a lot of psychological evolution that is still yet to happen. Kevin [Feige] has generally shown me what his plans are. I can’t tell you any of them, but it is one of the most exciting creative opportunities I think I’ve ever come across. This is new territory, a new world, new challenges, and I cannot wait to get started.”

Hiddleston was joined onstage by Feige during the panel and they both emphasized that the Loki in the streaming series is not the Loki who grew and changed for the better and who ultimately sacrificed his own life in a heroic move to try to stop Thanos in Thor: Ragnarok. This is still an Avengers-era Loki, aka the manipulative, selfish and evil villain.

Loki, set to begin streaming in spring of 2021, will also answer the question of what happened after he grabbed the Tesseract during the botched time heist in Avengers: Endgame.

“The question I got asked more than any other question in Endgame was where did Loki go, what happened to Loki?” Feige says. “This series will answer where he went.”

OMG, for the first time I am a bit exited about the series! I am still extremely sad that TDW Loki is lost, but they talk about “a lot of psychological evolution yet to happen”. So maybe we get something that is closer to the pre-Ragnaork era instead of cheap butt jokes! Yay! 

The Logo completely sucks though :( 

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Are you excited for Marvel’s Phase 4 reveal?

Not if it’s anything like Phase 3.

Phases 1 & 2: Establishes Captain America as the Man Out Of Time, leaving his lost past behind as he fights to save the future.

Phase 3: Captain America uses time travel to go back and live in the past.

Phases 1 & 2: Loki and Thor become enemies, but there is hope that the brothers will reconcile.

Phase 3: Thor bullies Loki into submission, then tells him he’s “the worst”, and then Loki is killed by his former abuser.  Thor never mentions his name again.

Phases 1 & 2: Tony Stark is a billionaire genius playboy who lives for thrills and hot chicks, but his love for Pepper and his poor relationship with his dad suggest what he really wants is to be a good husband and father.

Phase 3: Tony gets to have his family for a short time but then is killed, leaving his child fatherless.

Phases 1 & 2: Establishes the Guardians as a group of misfits who turn into a found family due to their traumatic pasts and shared experiences.

Phase 3: Saddles the Guardians with Thor as a new member, even though Thor doesn’t fit in and is obnoxious and aggressive to Quill.  Also Gamora is killed and replaced with another version of her from the past, erasing her love for Quill, friendship with the Guardians, and all of her character development.

Yeah, I’m sure Phase 4 will be a hoot. 

[saltoftheearths]

So, Thor 4

First of all

I don’t even like the fact that there is another movie in the Thor franchise. Why? Let me explain…

The MCU Trinity

Iron man

Captain America

Thor

Iron man - a trilogy (three movies in the franchise)

Captain America - a trilogy (three movies in the franchise)

So why the hell should Thor get a fourth movie?! Then we could’ve had Iron man 4 and Captain America 4. BUT NO! We didn’t. And why do we then need Thor 4?!

Second of all

It is going to be directed by Taika Waititi. I don’t have that much against that fact as long as Loki’s not in the movie and they don’t ruin another character.

There’s no help to Thor’s character because he’s played by Chris H and he’ll portray him the same way no matter who’s the director of the movie.

Third (and last) of all

I couldn’t give less fucks about Thor franchise anymore. Ragnarok destroyed it. I can just hope that Loki stays dead and not mentioned in the Thor 4.

I’m excited for the Loki TV series as long as TW is not part of it.

And of course, thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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MEANWHILE, AT THE VILLAIN’S LOUNGE…

“I hate waiting for sequels. Damn.”

“……..”

“Where is that rude eye-patch guy with the magazines when I need him?!”

**Photoshop. Drew on Hair. Changed some colors and the background.

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TH being the only 1 to have his characters’ name chanted at SDCC is just further proof that Marvel wasted their most popular character/most talented actor on a cheap shocking death that literally everyone hated and the MCU will never reach the heights it could have if Loki had made a return as a hero in Endgame send tweet

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I guess it’s time for these memes now...

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Loki Laufeyson by keelerleah

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I saw this post list ragnarok as an example of "hopepunk". Thoughts?bairnsidhe(.)tumblr(.)com/post/172216156771/ariaste-ariaste-ariaste-the-opposite-of

I am so not the right person to answer this. I’d never heard of “hopepunk” before reading that post. I searched a bit and found more explanation and also an interview from the original writer of the post who is a fantasy author, in which she explained a bit more about it. But I don’t have enough knowledge about this and what I’m going to write is my limited understanding of what I just read. Tagging some people in case they like to chime in and probably know way more than me(sorry in advance if you didn’t like to be tagged): @iamanartichoke @philosopherking1887 @foundlingmother @9ofspades @juliabohemian @incredifishface @nlhollow

Quoting OP from the interview:

Hopepunk responds to this to say, “I don’t agree with that. I think the glass is neither half empty nor half full. There’s water in the glass and that’s important.” It says that people are petty and cruel and mean, but also people are amazing, and that our communities are capable of incredible things, and that we all as much as we have that core of malice and evil, we also have a huge capacity to do good and to take care of each other and to make the world a better place.

I think this has been the core of MCU specially in phase 1(and probably what drew me to this universe). I mean isn’t this the story of the three original Avengers?

Hopepunk says that genuinely and sincerely caring about something, anything, requires bravery and strength. Hopepunk isn’t ever about submission or acceptance: It’s about standing up and fighting for what you believe in. It’s about standing up for other people. It’s about DEMANDING a better, kinder world, and truly believing that we can get there if we care about each other as hard as we possibly can, with every drop of power in our little hearts. 

Tony was a war profiteer who scoffed at idea of peace without having weapons, without a war. “I love peace, I’ll be out of job without peace.” But then he saw young soldiers died with the weapons he created. He got his eyes open and saw first hand, the horrors a war can bring. And then we got to see Tony genuinely and sincerely caring about all the people who got hurt and trying to make up for his mistakes.

Steve’s true strength wasn’t his powers because of the serum, it was him being a good man. Not wanting to kill people, but trying to fight because he didn’t like bullies. Because he wanted to stand up for other people and make a better world.

And Thor, who was arrogant and hot-headed and a war monger, when realized the consequences of his actions, he tried to be better. He had lost everything, his home, his family, his powers but it didn’t stop him from trying. And so he tried to stand up for other people with his life, tried to ask forgiveness even though he had no idea what went wrong.

I think TR on the surface carries the same vibes too. We have this “hero”, who goes through so much, loses his father, is imprisoned on another planet and forced to fight for his life, loses his eye, his home and doesn’t give up once. He brings this misguided people together by seemingly being understanding of them and give them a chance to redeem themselves. There’s also “Asgard isn’t a place, it’s a people”(which is one of the few things I liked about this movie. Although it is not an original concept that belongs to TR. It’s been used many times in stories and it’s most probably inspired by the story of Moses and his followers passing through the see to reach a better land). That’s probably what the general audience see in this movie and that’s why they like it. The intention for hopepunk and the elements are there.

However, it failed to give me this vibe, it failed to convey the hopepunk message to me. And I think the most important reason is that the movie is devoid of emotion. That genuine and sincere caring about sth, the radical act of kindness, it doesn’t exist if you look deeply to the movie. More importantly it doesn’t exist in Thor, the protagonist. Sth that was a crucial part of Thor’s character in other movies. Loki’s alive?Thor is just angry that he was deceived. Odin’s dead? Thor’s angry that Loki caused this. Loki tries to talk to him, Thor dismisses him, gives him the silent treatment. Hulk doesn’t want to help him, Thor hurts his feelings. Valkyrie doesn’t want to help him, then she is a traitor and a coward. He tries to manipulate Bruce. Deliberately hurts Loki’s feelings, manipulates him with reverse psychology, gives him an ultimatum that if he doesn’t change who he is, he will be left alone and leaves him without a care to be tortured for an indeterminate amount of time and vulnerable to anyone who finds him. One of Thor’s most important and lovely characteristics was his love and care for his brother. That radical kindness to forgive and hope even when Loki acts like his enemy and hurts him. That’s non-existence. The sincere care and love for his friends and his home isn’t there. W3 are murdered and Thor never mentions them. His home is destroyed in front of his eyes. He looks grim but you don’t feel anything, no pain or heartbreak. The only thing that he seems to genuinely care about, is being a hero(“because that’s what heroes do.”) and his power(”I’m not as strong as you”). That’s not the Thor I knew. I think TR hides behind a hopepunk mask. But it’s just that, a mask, a lie.

[saltoftheearths]

Well. That took eternity. One of these days, I will learn to work with colour and stop slapping orange overlay on everything. Honestly. 

_______________

If anyone wants a print, shoot  me an ask(US only).

Prices 

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Dude everything about end game bugged me I hate that Loki got like what 3 minutes at most screen time and Thor saw him and just was unaffected by it? You really expect me to believe that Thor would not care about seeing his dead brother who he was mean to the last time he saw him? No way it’s dumb they do Loki so dirty all the time

Right??? I’m honestly just so bewildered by how the Russo Brothers seemed to have had absolutely no idea about what to do with Loki because like… he’s the fucking trickster god!! He can pull feints on people, pretend to be dead, read people’s minds, make their pants magically fall down, he is like THE best character type for a writer to make use of when it comes to snarky humor, plot twists, and whatnot. They should’ve been EXCITED to make use of him when it came to infinity war and endgame. Plus he’s a fan favorite!! And yet… nothing. They literally killed him off in the first 5 min and then threw their hands up in the air and were like “well that’s that”. And they couldn’t even be bothered to give him a meaningful death (like Natasha) or even one that kind of made sense for his character. The only other character who I thought kind of got screwed over was Gamora but then THEY BROUGHT HER BACK in endgame and it was like…wow…you guys… really don’t care for Loki do you??? (cackles humorlessly into the night) 

It’s just such a shitty exit for Loki and I’d already set the bar so low given how infinity war went and yet they somehow managed to go even lower?? by not having Thor mention him AT ALL. Some people have been pulling up Chris Hemsworth’s interview where he says he had a lot of input in Thor’s characterization in Endgame and that if he had to choose, he wouldn’t bring Loki back, and I just??? I don’t want to put too much stock in written interviews where statements can be taken the wrong way (plus mcu actors often have so many restrictions on what they can say) but if that’s even half true then I’m just… baffled. 

And like that’s the thing! I’m not even sure if I’m upset or pissed, because I’m mostly just so confused on why they’ve ignored him so much!! He was so instrumental in the first Avengers movie, it doesn’t make sense that he was erased so much in the final chapter. And as a writer I can’t help but wring my hands at all the missed opportunities!! Imagine 2012 Loki realizing that Tony was from the future and then offering him some information on Thanos in return for his freedom!! Imagine Asgard Loki seeing Thor, seeing that he’s changed and has been through a lot, and giving him the comforting encouragement he needed. Imagine Loki being able to communicate or share memories with his alternative timeline selves (like Nebula but with magic)!! Imagine Loki working with Nebula and Gamora to weaken Thanos!! Or just imagine, in the final battle, Thor struggling with Thanos with no access to his weapons. Thanos’ blade is at his neck, but just as he seems to fall, he sees… a snake. Bam! Loki appears out of thin air and stabs Thanos with relish (with a much bigger and magically cursed sword this time), before getting them away before he gets back up. “I told you Brother…” he says, “the sun will shine on us again…” 

Like ugh they really couldn’t even be bothered to try.