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[saturnianoracle]

Tropical vs Vedic/Sidereal astrology

In my first post, I spoke a bit on how astrology works scientifically, and therefore why I use the tropical system. This post will go a little further into why, but I will re-paste the relevant parts from my first part here.

First, however, I would like to make it clear that when I am referring to Vedic astrology, I am referring to the common understanding of vedic astrology today which is the system which uses sidereal positioning. But Vedic astrology DOES NOT necessarily equal Sidereal. There are Vedic astrologers (though few, and will be expanded upon later) which use the tropical system. I am, however, using this post to explain why I do not use Vedic astrology as it is largely understood today; based on Sidereal system. I am simply not proficient enough to talk about Vedic techniques and principles as understood removed from its popular Sidereal understanding. So to reiterate, this is not a post against Vedic techniques or Vedas and such, but why I do not follow how it is commonly perceived and practised today.

Sidereal vs Tropical rundown

✎ Sidereal astrology accounts for the precession of the equinoxes, i.e. it relies on where the actual constellations have moved to from our perspective on earth. If you use a sky map app and point it to the sky it will tell you the exact constellation above, that is sidereal positioning.

✎ Tropical astrology does not do this, it uses the divison of the ecliptic exactly how it was thousands of years ago of where the sun was at the vernal equinox - Aries. It is thus based on the seasons.

The science behind astrology - why constellations do not matter (excerpt form my main post):

: ̗̀➛ Astrology has NOTHING to do with the physical constellations. Astrology is based on the signs on the ecliptic (the path of the sun amongst the constellations, which is the plane of the earth's orbit).

: ̗̀➛ The equator has 15 constellations, and the ecliptic has 13. So why do we have 12 zodiac signs? This is because babylonians divided the ecliptic into 12 equal segments of 30 degrees each thousands of years ago. The ecliptic was divided into SIGNS. 12 constellations were just used to identify where in the sky each sign would be, at the time for ease of astronomical mapping/calculation - it is merely symbolic. This is why Opphiuchus is not the 13th Zodiac SIGN, although it is a constellation.

: ̗̀➛ Another reason why they are not based off the physical constellations is because the actual size of the constellations vary massively in size. Below is a representation of this:

: ̗̀➛ As you can see, Virgo, for instance is huge, and on a literal view overlaps into the next segment because the constellations do not all equally fit a 30 degree division. Yet, we do not give scorpio like 5 days for its season, because the physical constellation does not dictate anything meaningful.

This gives us the tropical zodiac, which is to do with the earth's seasons:

: ̗̀➛ The solstices are therefore reference points for Capricorn and Cancer (tropic of capricorn and tropic of cancer), not the constellations themselves. Accordingly, the spring equinox is marked by Aries (with the sun entering the segment of Aries at 0 degrees until 29), and the autumn equinox by Libra. Even though in the Southern Hemisphere, the sun entering Aries is an autumnal equinox, ithe fact remains it is still about the seasons (i.e. what the sun does, maintaining its universal application).

: ̗̀➛ The precession of the equinoxes, are therefore irrelevant to astrology (and this is why vedic/sidereal is, in my opinion inaccurate). The slow change of the direction of the earth's axial tilt, over around 26000 years, cause a precession of the equinoxes. This means, the segment of the sky that used to be identified by the Aries constellation from the earth's position at the time, is now looking at Pisces. But as we know, astrology has nothing to do with the physical location of the constellations. Vedic astrologers use sidereal positioning, aka taking into account the precession of the equinoxes, yet they still divide the ecliptic in the same way. This causes problems, leading to many branches in vedic because few agree on where aries actually even starts.

The problems with Sidereal positioning - its all about the sun!

✣ As described in my first post ( i'd really recommend u read it ngl lol), astrology is symbolic, and its entire foundation is based off the sun. It is the sun which gives us life -> therefore it represents our vitality, creativity, identity etc (as opposed to the rising sign which is our personality, who we are, etc and filtered through our chart ruler). Everything comes back down to this SOLAR-based system -> equinox to equinox. Nothing to do with the constellations.

✣ Moreover, the signs are grouped into the 3 modalities, which all represent the suns status (symbolic significations are interpretated separately depending on the sign but generally the groups represents what the sun is doing). The sign which it currently objectively is passing through bears no significance. E.g:

-> Aries, Libra, Cancer, Capricon = Cardinal = sun is crossing the equator when crossing Aries or Libra. When crossing cancer the sun is moving from setting north to south, and vice versa when going through Capricorn. Moving forward, fresh change. -> Taurus, Scorpio, Leo, Aquarius = Fixed = sun is in the middle of the season it is in, it is 'fixed' and maintaining. -> Gemini, Sagittarius, Virgo, Pisces = Mutable = sun is transforming by going through the end of its season, undoing and release before the next season starts with the cardinal signs.

✣ Because the position of the constellation depends on where on earth you view it from, there is no obejctive consensus on where Aries even starts. This had led to varying branches of sidereal astrology such as Lahiri, Raman, Krishnamurti Paddhati, and some western takes on Sidereal positioning like Fagan-Bradley. These branches are symptomatic of being overly pedantic by concentrating on the constellations themselves.

✣ Finally, Vic Di Cara is a famous and rare example of a modern day Vedic astrologer who uses the tropical system. Seems blasphemous, but he delves into some irrefutable points on ancient India's use of the tropical system which I will paste below but I really encourage you to read it. Tldr it is still about the sun (surprise suprise):

"The foundational texts of Indian Astrology unanimously and explicitly define the zodiac based on solstices and equinoxes (i.e. tropical). On the other hand, they also unanimously define the nakshatra based on stars (i.e. sidereal). The current difference between the two - the solstices (ayana) and their marker stars - is described as "ayanamsha." Problem: For many centuries Indian astrologers have applied ayanāṁśa to both the nakshatra and the zodiac - fuseing the two and divorcing the zodiac from its tropical anchors. Solution: Reform... which requires patience, clarity, contemplation and humility from all parties."

CRUCIALLY:

I hope this cleared up any confusions on sidereal vs tropical astrology, and has helped informed your decision on choosing which system to use! I will advise, though, not to mix the systems. This is a common belief for good reason; you would not mix two different languages in a sentence.

[saturnianoracle]

How to learn real astrology: what it is and is not

As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul.

It is VITAL that if you want to understand astrology properly, you come in with an open mind and forget everything you think you know. Especially, remove yoruself from the belief that astrology is some occultic mystical spiritual practice, and/or that it is solely some psychological tool.

I used to be quite the hater of astrology. None of it 'resonated', and it seemed like wishy washy hippie shit. In lockdown, astrology stuff kept coming onto my feed, and some of it made sense, but most still did not. I then initially wanted to debunk astrology. But when I properly stated looking into it, the deeper I went the more accurate it started to become. Equally, parts still remained highly inaccurate. But this was due to a mismatch of how 'influencers' out there synthesised and understood the traditional foundations of astrology and modern information. Thus, I committed myself to truly understanding astrology, and my life has significantly improved for it and I've only just started.

As an introductory post to what astrology really is, I have formatted it into the following sections: i. the problem with pop culture astrology, ii, the history of astrology, iii. how astrology works, and iv. where meaning in astrology comes from.

The problem with pop culture astrology

This is the type of astrology we see in newspaper horoscopes, online articles, tiktok viral posts, instagram horoscopes, etc.

This is borne out of the allure astrology holds for desperate individuals seeking an easy and quick answer to their life problems, and using it as a form of confirmation bias for hating their ex (for example). But this misuse of astrology will undoubtedly hit for most people, due to the barnum effect, but is ultimately inaccurate and those who think it true have now misleadingly correlated the pop culture reasons for why X happened to what astrology is.

The new moon in your 7th house is not a sign that your crush will leave his partner for you. Being a gemini sun does not mean you are a two faced, loyal-less individual. Having your sun sign the same as their venus sign does not mean you two are compatible. And so on and so forth.

Here are some key things to understand about astrology:

✎ Stop using co-star, and those websites which give you your astrology information like this:

-> This does not tell you anything remotely significant aside from standard archetypal and superifical meanings of having a sun in Sagittarius or whatever (which you might not even 'relate' to, because of a multitude of other factors this does not show). Your chart instead, should, at the very least look like this:

-> Even better, make a chart and add in decans, asteroids, and considers more aspects. Viewing your birth chart like this is essential for gaining a better understanding. Aspects are what brings everything in your chart together to give it more significant and individualised meaning, the houses and the angles are also explicitly identifiable this way. Also, always make sure your chart is in whole sign houses, I will make a post on this later on why, but you will have to go to settings for this as popculture astrology has made placidus the default (as well as other inaccurate takes).

✎ Sun sign is astrology is fake, no matter how much you think it resonates with you it is the wrong footing to base your understanding of astrology off of. Astrology is extremely complex, one thing might resonate for one person and not for another, because of house placements, condition of the planet, aspects to the planet, etc. Consequently, all basic and simplified delineations of a chart are unhelpful and will put you on the wrong footing for future proper readings you might wish to do. This is how astrology can be so inaccurate.

✎ Astrology is not about resonating. Although, this is a part of how we can test astrology, it is linked far too much with resonating with personality. Your birth chart is not a map of who you are specifically, we evolve all the time (as the universe, so the soul), it is a map of your entire life. It is a map of the sky and its energies the minute you were born. Some things you think you do not resonate with is because those energies have not yet played out in your life.

✎ Astrology is not a psychological tool, although it can give us insight into psychology when used and understood properly. Again, it is the blueprint of our life.

✎ Astrology is not spiritual. It is not a belief system, either. Although, one can use astrology to advance their spiritual practices.

✎ Free will exists. I will likely go into this in another post but the energies of our bith chart, solar return chart, profection year, progressed charts, transits etc, are merely indications of how things are likely to unfold. The energies are malleable within their themes' ambit, and it is up to us to decide how we choose to interpret what is/will happen and what to do with that information. A transit might indicate difficulty in a law suit, ok, how can I mitigate that then? What other charts, energies, and transits can I use? If I did not know of this then I would not know how to alter my behaviour to yield a better results, even if it might not mean a completely opposite result.

✎ Your natal chart will not show you everything. There are relocated charts, progressed charts, solar return charts, profection years, etc. All this goes into a holistic assessment. Your natal chart, however, will always remain the anchor of it all.

A brief history

Astrology is not some woo-woo, spiritual, new age, belief system. Astrology's history and use goes back to the Babylonians. It used to be intertwined with astronomy; Galielo and Kepler, for example, were simultaneously astrologers and practised it widely (even as court astrologers). People in positions of power have always consulted astrologers to time events, in the modern era many Royal families, celebrities, and politicans still consult astrologers. Carl Jung, JP Morgan, Nancy Reagan, and Roosevelt are examples of this. Of course, it might be argued that just because famous people have used/use astrology does not give it any more credit to which I say: ok please read my post below pls and ty xo.

Astrology's history has been relatively tumultuous, however. I have condensed this timeline from an article I found below:

- Astrology was a widely accepted practice but, in Europe, after the fall of the Roman empire and much of Europe, it fell into decline along with other disicplines. - The middle ages saw a renaissance of intellectualism with a particular focus on science and thus the astronomy part of it. This was largely due to the Church who viewed astrology as divination and going against free will. - However, in other parts of the world astrology was still a crucial element of daily life, and those in power would use astrologers to time events. - Astrology did re-enter the curriculum, though, in the 14th century, with a focus on being used for medical astrology in part due to the recently available Hippocratic Corpus. These texts were crucial to advancing our understanding of medicine, but Hippocrates emphasised that "a physician without knowledge of astrology has no right to call himself a physician". Astrologer still had a healthy dose of criticism back then, though. - Astrology was a major field of study in universities in Europe, well ingrained in daily life. - It died out in the 17th century, mostly due to the increasing emphasis on science being increasingly and misleadingly viewed as separate from astrology, the church, and astrologers falling into disrepute due to political involvement. - Its resurgence in the 19th century saw an oversimplified, and largely 'spiritualised' version of astrologer. This is because this period also saw an increased interest in the occult and mystic. - Since becoming conflated, astrology has become even further diluted, but this is not to say that every new discovery has been wrong; modern interpretation is crucial to informing the bigger picture of astrology and how we can utilise it. But it is vital to be critical and separate it from pop culture nonsense, aimed at lost and desperate people looking for quick answers and confirmation bias, and have some media literacy.

So, how does astrology work?

: ̗̀➛ Astrology has NOTHING to do with the physical constellations. Astrology is based on the signs on the ecliptic (the path of the sun amongst the constellations, which is the plane of the earth's orbit).

: ̗̀➛ The equator has 15 constellations, and the ecliptic has 13. So why do we have 12 zodiac signs? This is because babylonians divided the ecliptic into 12 equal segments of 30 degrees each thousands of years ago. The ecliptic was divided into SIGNS. 12 constellations were just used to identify where in the sky each sign would be, at the time for ease of astronomical mapping/calculation - it is merely symbolic. This is why Opphiuchus is not the 13th Zodiac SIGN, although it is a constellation (and has always been known).

: ̗̀➛ Another reason why they are not based off the physical constellations is because the actual size of the constellations vary massively in size. Below is a representation of this:

: ̗̀➛ As you can see, Virgo, for instance is huge, and on a literal view overlaps into the next segment because the constellations do not all equally fit a 30 degree division. Yet, we do not give scorpio like 5 days for its season, because the physical constellation does not dictate anything meaningful.

This gives us the tropical zodiac, which is to do with the earth's seasons:

: ̗̀➛ The solstices are therefore reference points for Capricorn and Cancer (tropic of capricorn and tropic of cancer), not the constellations themselves. Accordingly, the spring equinox is marked by Aries (with the sun entering the segment of Aries at 0 degrees until 29), and the autumn equinox by Libra.

: ̗̀➛ The precession of the equinoxes, are therefore irrelevant to astrology (and this is why vedic/sidereal is, in my opinion inaccurate). The slow change of the direction of the earth's axial tilt, over around 26000 years, cause a precession of the equinoxes. This means, the segment of the sky that used to be identified by the Aries constellation from the earth's position at the time, is now looking at Pisces. But as we know, astrology has nothing to do with the physical location of the constellations. Vedic astrologers use sidereal positioning, aka taking into account the precession of the equinoxes, yet they still divide the ecliptic in the same way. This causes problems, leading to many branches in vedic because few agree on where aries actually even starts. But, I will write an extension of this segment in a future post on tropical vs vedic/sidereal astrology.

Where does astrological meaning come from?

As explained above, constellations do not give us meaning, the planets in the signs do (of which the signs' names just derive from where the constellations were at the time, i.e. are merely symbolic).

Astrology operates in a heliocentric context, in that its setting is derived from the solstices (as the sun is what gives us life) and the ecliptic etc, but is geocentric in function in that the meaning comes from how the celestial bodies going through the signs affect us on earth; it is all about OUR relation to the planets, not constellations.

Returning to the quote above (as above so below...), what happens up up there reflects its energies down on us below. For thousands of millenia, astrologers have developed an accurate pattern recognition framework which aligns with the maths and astronomy. This was done using the ephemeris, which tracked the trajectory of celestial bodies against the context of worldly (mundane), or natal events. Eventually, this knowledge could be used for predictions, (to understand transits, or for electional and horary astrology), by utilising the knowledge of how the trajectories of the planets and their interactions with eachother in what sign and house affected what.

Why does it affect us? Well, all the things that happen above us radiate energies. But when I talk about energies, I do not mean it in some spiritual sense, it is quite literal. Everything has frequencies. As mentioned above, astrologers, since the Bablyonian times, have studied these patterns and created an objective framework to align with it. Physical energies or not there is direct causation. The moon for instance, affects the tides on the planet because of its gravitational pull. We are 70% water, there is little reason to deny that the moon cannot affect us either (it does). Perhaps you might understand your broken leg as because of being hit by a car. But astrology can assess the chart of the event, and transits to your own chart to provide further explanation of why you got hit by a car in the first place, and why it caused a broken leg etc. Subsequently, the energies of what happens above relate to the themes found in planets, signs, houses, aspects, asteroids etc - but these energies are not set in stone as explained above.

Ultimately, it is disappointingly small-minded to think that there is nothing 'greater' than the physical reality we tether ourselves to. We are in fact part of something bigger; and again I do not mean this in some culty spiritual hippy sense. It is literally a fact, the world and cosmos at large is so vast, mysterious, and beautiful, how could anyone deny the interconnected web we are all collectively a part of. We might never fully understand the mechanisms of the universe, but what we can do is use the information we do have to make use of it and help inform us on how to live better lives. The fact there is something 'greater' inherent in our lives, connecting everything, which is objectively difficult to truly grasp, is not a reason to reject it. A lot of people who are averse to astrology (which used to be me) are those who pride themselves on rationality and objectivity, yet are restricting themselves to a very particular interpretation of what rationality and objectivity means.

With all this said, I hope it has helped someone understand and appreciate astrology better. There is such a fascinating rich and deep history to it, spanning various cultures and eras, making it difficult to at least not enjoy learning about even if one still chooses to not practise it. I would like to reiterate, however, that to truly embrace astrology and its millenia of knowledge, evidence, and practice behind it, one must divorce its concept from pop culture astrology.

[saturnianoracle]

⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆THE 9TH HOUSE⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆

Welcome to my blog...aka the 9th house! I've named it this as my chart ruler, mercury, is in my 9th house which represents many important themes in my life such as: → travel/distant places → culture + foreign things → wisdom + philosophy → astrology, mysticism, beliefs, religion → dreams → higher learning/knowledge + education I am very saturnian, however; saturn is conjunct my ascendant, and my chart ruler's ruler is also saturn - hence my username ♥ ✭∞∞∞∞✷∞∞∞∞✭ So essentially, I've decided to finally make a place to info dump all the word vomit I hoard in my head; ramblings, vents, and most importantly - astrology stuff (my latest hyperfixation, especially since pluto entered my 9th house lol). So yeah, mostly a place to catalogue all that stuff for myself, but it would be nice to get to know other people in the tumblr community too.

ׂ╰┈➤ NAVIGATION

✣ABOUT ME

✣ASTROLOGY MASTERLIST

✣MUSINGS

p.s. this is your only tw;

some of my posts might contain talk of heavy mental health shit. I've been diagnosed with bpd, ednos, adhd, and some other shit. So expect that I will be venting about it and my life in general, and that it may come up in astrology posts.

[saturnianoracle]

⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆MUSINGS⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆

Archives of my never ending stream of consciousness

things to come hopefully? need to post more stuff here instead of twitter or my diary lol

Poetry

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Thoughts/ramblings

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Vents (tw)

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[saturnianoracle]

⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆ASTROLOGY MASTERLIST⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆

◦ I started properly getting into astrology in 2023, after superficialy dabbling in it since 2021. Iniitally, I looked into it to debunk it. However, through approaching it with a critical lens, I came to realise the truth and significance behind it. What previously closed my mind off to ever taking astrology seriously was the garbage pop culture astrology permeating the internet, and its modern day link to spirituality and understanding it solely as a psychological tool (more of this will be disucssed in the first post). ◦ As I've been learning, I wanted to create a place to consolidate my thoughts, hence me creating this blog. The information derives from an amalgam of different sources, and I will try to cite where necessary/possible. I consider myself a forever student, however, and it is still very much early days in my astrological knowledge. ◦ Below is a list of the content I plan on writing about as I continue to learn. The titles will be clickable links when they are done. ◦ P.S. I use the tropical zodiac, whole signs, traditional rulerships, and practise by using a blend of traditional and modern techniques and ideas. All my information is taken from various sources e.g. reddit, tumblr, tiktok, discord, websites, youtube etc.

·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙˚·̩̩̥͙＊•̩̩͙

Just for fun, I have a:

ׂ╰┈➤ pisces sun, virgo moon, gemini rising, aquarius mercury,pisces venus, aries mars, cancer jupiter (rx), gemini saturn, aquarius neptune, aquarius uranus, saggittarius pluto, gemini north node

Introduction to astrology:

✦ How to learn real astrology - astrology as an observable science; what it is and is not.

✦ Tropical vs Vedic/Sidereal astrology - why I use tropical

✦ Whole signs vs Placidus house system - why I use whole signs

✦ Traditional vs Modern rulerships - why I use traditional

✦ The different and important astrology charts

The foundations of chart interpretation:

✦ The 12 zodiac signs

✦ The planets

✦ The houses (angular,succedent, cadent)

✦ The houses (1 - 12)

✦ How to interpret empty houses

✦ Modalities

✦ The nodes

✦ Aspects (major and minor)

✦ Essential dignities

Delineation:

✦ How to read and interpret chart transits

Astro ramblings:

✦ The debate of free will in astrology

[saturnianoracle]

⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆ABOUT ME⋆⁺₊⋆ ☀︎ ⋆⁺₊⋆

INTRO

✎ name: harlyn

✎ age: 22 (2002)

✎ pronouns: she/her

✎ sexuality: bi

✎ location: england (but I am east asian)

✎ cognitive functions/mbti: intp

✎ enneagram: 5w6

✎ ♓︎☉ ♍︎☽ ♊︎↑

ᐢ..ᐢ hobbies: reading, philosophy, travelling, listening to music, video games, hiking, history, mythology, geography, politics, languages/linguistics, psychology, collecting as much info on my interest as possible, films, staring into space and doing nothing

ᐢ..ᐢ top artists: lana del rey (top 0.5% bitch xo), deftones, radiohead, clams casino

ᐢ..ᐢ fave tv shows: adventure time, bojack horseman, the owl house, sherlock, rick and morty, over the garden wall, david attenborough stuff/documentaries in general, TLOU, fleabag, invincible, atypical, haunting of bly manor, beef

ᐢ..ᐢ fave films: donnie darko, the fight club, requiem for a dream, lotr series, hp series, interstellar, inception, girl interrupted, parasite, dune series, eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, trainspotting, v for vendetta, stardust, narnia series, hereditary, a monster calls, everything everywhere all at once

ᐢ..ᐢ fave video games: hades, silent hill 2, resident evil 4, halo, night in the woods, the witcher 3, fran bow, little miss fortune, undertale, life is strange, TLOU, ni no kuni, stanley parable, the beginner's guide, detroit become human, horizon zero dawn, assassin's creed series, devil may cry 5, bayonetta, hellblade,

ᐢ..ᐢ fandoms: basically all of the above plus: percy jackson, eragon,

if anyone got through those fat (and actually condensed) lists, then good job - i just took this an opportunity to list some of my favourite things so i don't forget and can look back lmao, which means i'll be updating it as more, hopefully cool, stuff comes out