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Hera and Zeus by Erté, 1989

Created by a Russian-French artist and designer Romain de Tirtoff (born Roman Petrovich Tyrtov), these bronze statues of the Greek Deities, Hera and Zeus, are a part of a limited series of 500 pieces. the Gods are depicted wearing elaborate, long deep-blue patterned robes with richly decorated garments underneath. Hera's statuette is accompanied by a bronze peacock.

Photo source: 🏺

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TW: self-harm + blood sacrifice

Skip this post if you don't wish to engage with either of the above topics.

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my fav coworker @ witch shop told me about how one of their classmates in highschool was apparently an Athene devotee, but tried to offer her own blood??

PLEASE.

Did we learn nothing from Tantalus??

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What is your opinion on the syncretism of gods in greco-roman mythology? I know "the Romans just copied the Greeks" joke goes around a lot and i don't agree with it entirely. but I've also seen an increase in people who say you cannot consider myths written by Romans to be a "valid source" for Greek gods. Which doesn't sound convincing to me because aren't a lot of Roman myths, especially about Olympians, found in Greek mythology as well? The same myth but with the Greek god replaced with their Roman counterpart and vice versa (because they were thought to be the one and the same by the Greek and Roman writers). These are my thoughts but I want to hear from someone else in the community . Thank you!

an inevitable reality considering the proximity and interconnectedness of ancient Greek and Italian culture, imo!

people are free to not prefer Roman sources (I certainly prefer referencing older Greek sources), but we must acknowledge that there is a longstanding interchangeability between Greek and Roman gods + mythology.

understanding the differences of these cultures, their interdependent development, and the context behind the composition of certain texts can certainly have an influence on whether or not someone considers a source valid (note that the validity of a source differs depending on what you believe the purpose of it is), but there is no denying that the Greeks and Romans themselves believed their gods to be the same, even in the face of cultural nuances that didn't just change the gods' names, but sometimes their functions as well (e.g., Mars vs. Ares & Saturn vs. Kronos).

people forget that these nuances existed amongst the Greeks themselves on the local level, too, with some instantiations of the gods being completely unlike their mythological or panhellenic counterparts.

also, ovid good. his telling of Erysichthon's hubris made me genuinely sick to my stomach.

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POV: You are trying to explain the greek mythology kiddo who got their information from TikTok that you are an actual hellenic polytheist, that you actually worship Zeus, and that he is really awesome and NOT how he is portrayed in myths.

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Hi, I've finished the Illiad and Odyssey not so long ago, and I'm a little bit confused.

In those texts, characters or narrator sometimes refer to Zeus as "the oldest of gods." I've read these on my native language, so I decided there was some translation problem, but then I've came across couple of English posts also talking about Zeus as the oldest and yes, I understand that posts people write aren't the best source of information but along with what I've read in the poems it made me doubting.

So, are there some versions of the myths where Zeus is the oldest? Or is it simply a translation or interpretation problem, like "the oldest" in the meaning "the strongest/wisest/greatest/etc"?

I will be very thankful for the explanation because somehow, this made me so confused.

No problem! Although Zeus is almost always presented as the youngest son from Hesiod onwards, he is in fact described as the oldest in the Iliad. For example, when he sends Iris with a message to Poseidon:

"I came here bearing a message for you, dark-haired holder of the earth, from Zeus who wields the aegis. He commands you to desist from war and battle and to go among the tribe of gods, or into the bright salt sea. And if you do not obey his words, but ignore them, he threatens that he too will come here to do battle, face-to-face; and he bids you avoid his hands, since he says he is more powerful by far than you in strength and in birth is elder." (Il. 15. 174-182)

One could suspect Zeus is bending the truth or being metaphorical in claiming primogeniture (considering the other more popular tradition) but the Iliad states it as a literal fact, as evidenced by Iris' response to Poseidon when he says that Zeus can snorkel his dongle:

"Is it in this way then, dark-haired holder of the earth, I should bear this harsh and powerful word to Zeus, or will you change your mind at all? The minds of the great are yielding. And you know the Furies always attend the elder born." (Il. 15. 201-204)

Meaning if conflict were to arise the Furies would side with Zeus because he the is older sibling. Hera is likewise here the eldest of the goddesses, and there's no reason to suppose it's not meant literally.

Curiously, quite the opposite interaction occurs in the Odyssey. If in the Iliad Poseidon has to give way to Zeus' bullying because Zeus is the eldest, in the Odyssey it is Zeus who, though still supreme king, gives way to Poseidon because here Poseidon is the eldest:

"Then in turn Zeus who gathers the clouds made answer: ‘What a thing to have said, Earthshaker of the wide strength. The gods do not hold you in dishonor. It would be a hard thing if we were to put any slight on the eldest and best among us. But if there is any man who, giving way to the violence and force in him, slights you, it will be yours to punish him. Now and always. Do as you will and as it pleases you.’" (Od. 13. 139-145)

Ancient authors were not unaware of the contradiction, and there seem to have been attempts to reconcile both traditions, like in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, where it's said of Hestia:

"She was the first-born child of wily Kronos and youngest too, by the will of Zeus who holds the aegis." (Hom. Hymn. 5. 22-23)

No further explanation is given, but it's widely assumed that this is a reference to Kronos disgorging his children in the reverse order in which he swallowed them, ie. rock first and Hestia last (Hes. Th. 500 and Apollod. 1.2.1). The imagery of Kronos "rebirthing" his kids from his throat is... explicitly, used by Nonnos in the Dionysiaca when describing the scene:

"How he [Kronos] opened a gaping throat to receive a stony son, when he made a meal of the counterfeit body of a pretended Zeus; how the stone played midwife to the brood of imprisoned children, and shot out the burden of the parturient gullet" (Book 12. 43)

[Describing a shield that depicts Kronos swallowing the stone] "There he was again in heavy labour, with the stone inside him, bringing up all those children squeezed together and disgorging the burden from his pregnant throat." (Book 25. 553)

"And these dwelt in the city of Beroe, that primordial seat which Kronos himself built, at that time when, invited by clever Rhea, he set that jagged supper before his voracious throat, and having the heavy weight of that stone within him to play the deliverer's part, he shot out the whole generation of his tormented children. Gaping wide, he sucked up the storming flood of a whole river, and swallowed it in his bubbling chest to ease his pangs, then threw of the burden of his belly; so one after another his pregnant throat pushed up and disgorged his twiceborn sons through the delivering channel of his gullet." (Book 41. 65)

Hope I could be of help! And that Nonnos hasn't traumatised anyone too much.

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psa hating monotheistic religions as a polytheist isnt cute. ur just as bad as those people you hate in said religion. its not tolerance, its acceptance we need. make it start with you.

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thinking about how disguise & trickery, smooth talking, and blatant temptation were all essential aspects of seduction in ancient Greece and how that connects back to Zeus's affairs

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Hymn to Womanly Dionysos

I praise the God who runs with wild women, She who takes joy in their forms, Who Herself bears long hair, soft skin, delicate lashes, Dionysos of womanly epithets, Who wore long dresses in Her youth. I praise Dionysos who runs with the Maenads, Who surrounds Herself with ever-present holy wild women, Reveling in their company, Dancing under the sacred darkness at night, By day feasting on wine and honey and milk. Come to me now, O gently blessed one, Whether Your head is laid in the lap of Your beloved wife Ariadne, Who traces Your lips with Her own gentle hands, Or whether You are lying in flowered meadows with maenads, Who themselves rejoice in Your feminine form. Bless me with an ever-present sense of peace, Bless me with the love of women, Bless me with perfect joy in my own gender. May Your gentle cow-like eyes always behold me with kindness, May Your hands hold mine when I sorrow, And when the world raises a hand against me, May I hide behind Your flowing skirts, And may Your thyrsos be raised in my defense.

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This is my very polite and formal invitation for Apollo and Artemis followers to remember who Helios and Selene are. If you're syncretizing that's all fine and dandy but recognize that you're syncretizing! Question your view of the mythology of your religion! Greek mythology varied by region and time, there is no one "definitive" story or version... so of course the interpretation of the "sun god" or "god associated with the sun/light" or "moon goddess" or "goddess associated with the moon" can become blurry and conflated, but like... you think you just feel out of a coconut tree? you exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you. /ref /hj

Helios and Selene are Titans. As far as I'm concerned, they deserve respect. If you're making choices to view Apollo and Artemis as sun and moon gods, I just want to make sure you know that choice is deliberate and there are other (in my opinion cooler - points to Helios and Selene) options. But that's just my rant and personal opinion. Religion is personal and individual, but I will say that it does frustrate me to no end sometimes to see new worshippers babble about Apollo Sun and Artemis Moon and when you ask if they know who Helios and Selene are they stare at you blankly. Now let me say one last time before some rabid Apollo and Artemis devotees start barking - the interpretation of the Twins as solar/lunar deities is not incorrect, it was just not a part of the "original" versions of the gods. If you're reading this as a follower of either Apollo or Artemis and you don't know the Titans I'm talking about... my dear friend it's time to do some research once more. Blessings to you all on this nice summer afternoon. I'm gonna go squint at Helios in my yard now.

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Zeus Aethiops

For the people that come to my blog for the information, the actual post is in non-italics below (pls scroll down quick otherwise I'll look like a dork haha) For the people who have been following my blog for a longer period of time (and those fond of the dramatic) I set this scene:

You open your eyes to a sturdy oak table in the midst of a dimly room that smells of moisture, frankincense, and oakmoss. A deep blue satin cloth, about three feet long, lies upon the table, held down on either side by lit candelabras. The surface is bare otherwise. Pulled out a few feet behind the table is matching sturdy oak armchair with eagle head detailing on each of the armrests, and a royal purple satin cushion. Star-of-Zeus enters, wearing square glasses and holding a old and dusty-looking leather-bound tome that's thicker than their hands can hold stretched to their max, so Star chooses to hold it to their chest wrapped in their arms. Walking to the table, you watch them lean forward to set the heavy tome on the table with a solid, resounding thump before wiping the dust off their shirt and blowing the rest of the dust off of the tome before opening it up. [You, standing on the other side of the table, are subsequently covered in this dust and have to stand there looking like a bizarre snowman while listening] Finally, Star looks up through their glasses after settling in their chair and grins.

"My, my. It seems that it's been three years and two months since my last Zeus Epithets post. Finally ready for the next one?"

Zeus Aethiops is one of my absolute favorite epithets that I commonly venerate, and though this epithet comes rooted in a notion of race that looks nothing like our modern concept, I will take a stand (likely in another post so I can make a full breakdown/rant) against other opinions that I've seen that advise against blending the two (ancient and modern) notions of race when venerating such an epithet, but it will be written entirely from my perspective and experience, so be aware. But I digress - let's get back to learning about this epithet. Some translations I've seen include "of the Burnt Face" or "Ethiopian". Our beloved resource, theoi.com, defines this epithet of Zeus as:

AE′THIOPS (Aithiops), the Glowing or the Black. A surname of Zeus, under which he was worshipped in the island of Chios. (Lycophron, Cass. 537, with the note of Tzetzes.)

If we go to the theoi.com translation of Lycophron's Alexandra, 537, we find the line:

But we have one, yea one beyond our hope, for gracious champion, even the god Drymnius Promatheus Aethiops Gyrapsius, who, when they who are destined to suffer things dread and undesirable shall receive in their halls their fatal guest, the swooping robber, the wandering Orthanes...

The god referred to only by epithets in this line "Drymnius Promatheus Aethiops Gyrapsius" is indeed Zeus - the epithets Aethiops + Gyrapsius are cult-names from Chios, while Drymnius is from Pamphylia and Gyrapsius from Thurii.

So, now that we've established this epithet is from Chios, and attributed to Zeus, let's take a closer look at what the term Aethiops might signify. Merriam-Webster defines Aethiops as an alternate spelling of Ethiops, and defines Ethiops and simply meaning "Ethiopian" but the old Greek etymology of the word is a compound, according to Wikitionary --

From Proto-Hellenic*aitʰiyokʷs, explained since antiquity as αἴθω (aíthō, “I burn”) +‎ ὤψ (ṓps, “face”), though this is likely a folk etymology.

Thus, it wouldn't be outrageous at all to assume that this was a word used to refer to peoples with higher amounts of melanin, or generally those from the ancient region of Aethiopia, which was a geological term used to designate the "upper nile region of Sudan, south of the Sahara, and certain areas of Asia."

But yes, overall the opinion of scholars and historians is that the term 'Aethiops' could reasonably be associated with features that are associated with the Black or African people of today. As an American, I could go on long-winded talks about my experience worshipping a Justice god that is depicted as what I see as Black (not even to mind that I started following this path in 2020, during another round of BLM protests) but that's a topic for a more personal post instead of a research-based one. In the meantime, please look at one of my favorite pictures of Zeus from a Laconian cup, and if you look at me in my beautiful hazel eyes and tell me those aren't locs coming from Zeus's head I'm having Sisyphus crush you under his boulder.

Was Homer's Zeus Black?

Chios is a Greek island off the Western coast of Turkey, and I watched one video that also talks about Zeus Aethiops but makes the claim that Homer is from the island of Chios (which the author provides evidence for from the Homeric hymn to Apollo) and therefore the Zeus that Homer writes about in the Iliad and the Odyssey could be Black. In my personal opinion, they're playing very fast and loose with the Homeric Question, something scholars have been arguing over for centuries, but at the same time I very firmly believe in the mystery of history and the fact that it is incredibly important for people to see themselves in the deities or things they venerate, and at the very least it's great food for thought. The Homeric Question is outside the scope of this post, but I just wanted to share some other resources in case someone wants a longer more video-essay style post about Zeus Aethiops and that perspective on Homer.

But yes. That's all I have to say on Zeus Aethiops for now, but rest assured I will be shouting from the rooftops about him again soon. I'm so happy I finally did a post on one of my (probably top 5?) Zeus epithets, even though there isn't a lot to be found about this surname of his since I suppose it could have been considered minor in the ancient world.

As always, feel free to send in requests for other epithets!

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13 and 23 for the ask game!

13. What is your favorite devotional act? 23. Are there any new deities you want to contact?

13. Currently? EDUCATING MYSELF ON PALESTINE. And the other genocides (Sudan, Armenian, etc.) that have happened and continue to happen and be unnoticed. Justice deity, father of gods and men, it's right there. For His other aspects, listening to the sound of the rain and opening my windows when it comes, taking ritual showers/baths, being kind and friendly to children, there can be so many. The simplest one I've done lately is taking deep breaths.

23. To be super honest, and maybe it's a little shameful to say as a Hellenic Polytheist blog that walks the line between reconstructionist and revivalist, but I don't have any relationship with Hestia. I've been thinking of baking some bread in Her honor, so I might do that.

Thanks for sending in the ask!

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1 and 2 for the polytheism ask game! -kharmophron

What’s your least favorite myth?

What’s your favorite myth?

One that I personally don't care for is the one where Zeus disguises Himself as Artemis (or in other versions, Apollo) to have intercourse with Callisto, and afterwards Hera turns Callisto into a bear as revenge. The myth then goes on to say that Arcas, the son of Zeus and Callisto, almost kills Callisto while hunting but Zeus (or Artemis) intervenes to make both mother and son into the constellations Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. Other versions say Artemis kills Callisto deliberately for breaking her vow of chastity.

Above might be my least favorite myth because, conversely, my favorite myth is one where Artemis is a young goddess when She goes to Zeus and asks Him to grant her a wish. He agrees, and She asks for Zeus to never make her marry and allow her to remain forever a virgin, with nymphs as hunting companions, and a pack of hounds for hunting, and he grants every single one (one with or three wishes, whatever-- He says yes). She then goes and finds four deer to lead her chariot herself (other versions attest that she asked Zeus for this directly in the first wish bundle).

Indeed, Artemis is the first deity I worshipped ever and thus marked my conversion to Hellenic Polytheism, so I have a soft spot for Her and Her lovely childhood myth. She actually only was present in my life for about a month before taking a step back and incidentally making way for Her father (as was His plan, I'm sure) and thus began the relationship between Zeus and I, which continues to this day. :)

Thank you for sending in this ask!

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how we feelin’, Zeus Aithiops devotees?😍😍

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The ways Zeus is characterised in ancient sources is ~ fascinating ~ to me.

The overbearing patriarch of the Iliad who keeps his godly family in check with constant threats of abuse and domestic violence. The conciliatory diplomat of the Odyssey, acquiescent to the desires and honours of his fellow deities. The ideal king of the Theogony, commonly elected, virtuous alloter of good and evil. The frightened tyrant, the cruel tormentor of Prometheus Bound. The all-encompassing orphic entity, who swallowed down and brought forth and is the entirety of the cosmos. The enigmatic, ambivalent, and sometimes undignified figure who refuses to appear on stage. The embodiment of righteousness, of majesty, the ultimate good, the promoter and dispenser of justice, the adulterer, the rapist, the upholder of oaths who perjures himself in the name of "love".

Above all the mastermind, the constant plotter, whose plan and will [Διὸς βουλή] permeate greek literature from epic to philosophy, whether it be synonymous with fate or not.

This is why I generally dislike simplistic takes on him. Sure, almost any way you choose to characterise him will probably have a sourced basis, his multifaceted "identity" almost guarantees it. But the massive loss of complexity is so disappointing imo.

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Just got through reading Secrets of Greek Mysticism by George Lizos. Interesting food for thought.

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Thirded. Maybe I'm 'picky', but I personally dipped out the moment I read the line that went something along the lines of "imagine rain as Zeus's semen showering the earth". I mean, spirituality is individual and all that but WHAT do you get out of thinking a divine being is co0ming on you each time a beautiful natural event happens? Take what you will from that but from me personally that just weirded me the fuck out. I didn't read the full book so I can't give a review on the rest of it so listen to OP and my lovely moot but yeah. Maybe don't read it?

Just got through reading Secrets of Greek Mysticism by George Lizos. Interesting food for thought.

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One of the things I love most about Zeus is that he always tells the truth. I don’t know how to explain but whatever he says happens. Not surprising from the king of the gods, but it’s always so surprising to observe his promises unfold.

He once told me to walk under a pouring storm once a class ended and promised that I would come to where I wanted to be perfectly dry. As soon as that class ended I went outside and the rain stopped as soon as I put my foot outside, and I arrived perfectly dry.

He also has this sturdy, sure presence like a millennial oak that provides people with shade and protection, and he feels really…fatherly if that makes sense, like on a given Sunday afternoon he would spontaneously whip out a grill and cook steaks for the whole family, or read you stories before bed

Zeus is literally so nice it’s wonderful