syscourseside

[syscourseside]

Imagine showing this to someone in the 1600s

since you've been dragged into this already im telling you my mlp syscourse headcanons.

pinkie pie is a candygenic gateway transplural. she used to be a tulpamancer but then she realised it was racist. she didnt like change her behaviours or anything she just calls them thoughtforms. she believes CDDs should be demedicalised bc having disorders isnt fun and being plural is fun

twilight sparkle was an anti-endo turned into a pro-endo radinclus by pinkie pie's propaganda

rarity does her best to stay out of it but she's pro-endo if asked. pinkie is constantly trying to convince her she's plural because of her rapid mood swings. raritys starting to believe it

rainbow dash has DID but because of pinkie pies influence doesnt know the difference between DID and non-CDD plurality. shes trying to demedicalise her own disorder snd refuses professional help

fluttershy is secretly a violent anti-endogenic who hates all endos so much. she cant be alone with pinkie pie she'll literally kill her&

applejack doesnt believe in mental illness or plurality but she does believe in tulpamancy because she likes being racist

(to avoid further misunderstandings these are all jokes btw)

- brony anon

Remember that one research paper out of goddamn Stanford that actually talked about bronies?

I do

I'll never forget

[syscourseside]

The banner is so stupid and immature. I have no problems with DNIs and respect them completely up until someone CHOOSES TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER COMMUNITY.

You can't just post about an entire community, tell them they're not allowed to talk to you, and then get pissy when they defend themselves. It's like if someone posted something homophobic and then said "lesbians DNI!" As a lesbian, I'm still going to interact with that because you chose to criticize an entire community.

It's very obvious that they're just using the banner in order to avoid criticism, not because these discussions are actually upsetting to them, otherwise they'd enforce their own boundary and just block and stop talking about it. Instead they're throwing a hissy fit about their banner and massive ego cock or whatever they think they're doing with that because they think saying the community they're choosing to post about can't interact somehow shields them from any criticism.

Let's look at the progression of events so far:

@problemaddtic said sysmeds deserve medical trauma and malpractice, despite the fact that it's a community largely made up of heavily traumatized, vulnerable people looking for safety around their disorder, and that the majority are not necessarily anti endo

They got called out for said crappy post

@problemaddtic then makes a post that sysmeds (but not just sysmeds, because many systems struggle with dissociation) are just jealous of how much they DON'T struggle, and hides behind a banner

They got called out again

@problemaddtic then makes a post about their throbbing cock, rather than address any of the criticism or apologize to the systems that they're hurting that aren't sysmeds, and throws around the banner some more

I make fun of the banner

And I'm leaving the bad taste in people's mouths?

Really?? Why is the biggest sysmed in syscourse the only one telling endos to stay safe?

Sorry, I'm not blocking, I'm not moving on, this is the purpose of my blog, this is what I do.

Sorry I'm more worried about your community than you are.

You should feel bad, person who left that comment

[syscourseside]

Here's a reminder that trying to harm people you dislike by being bigoted towards them impacts people you do like.

A relavant example is that flexing about how not disabled you, are and treating being disabled as a bad thing hurts the disabled people in your community as well.

Especially when you are conflating a certain ideology with being disabled, you are villainising everyone with those disabilities for having those disabilities. Even the people with those disabilities who have done more to help your community than you likely ever will.

It does not combat anything or help anyone to be bigoted to people you oppose. Not only does it not help, it actively hinders. It makes people care less about the genuine points people in your community have, because all of their hard work is now tainted by, "You make community with bigots."

You do not do anything productive. If you set out just to hurt people, it is going to hurt those who care for your opinions (as in, people in your community) far worse than those who do not. I feel sorry for the marginalised people in your community that you view as a justifiable collateral in your plight.

[syscourseside]

Just saw that you're a minor so I'm not going to engage in this after this because I'm assuming you're behaving this way because of your age. I'll try to approach this more kindly because of this. I'm also blocking because your assumptions about me are kind of uncomfortable especially as I was very cautious not to make any about you. I honestly believe you are experiencing the symptoms you claim, I have no reason not to, and I genuinely truly hope that you're able to get help if you're struggling. We will probably unblock once we're more comfortable with it in case you'd like to ask us to take it down, I used to get quite anxious with any online discourse as a teen so I understand if you end up deciding this seems like too much for you at all. Genuinely wish the best for you.

The DSM doesn't list it because of dissociative amnesia. Many patients don't remember trauma so it can't be a criteria. And the science does say that, I've talked to multiple DID specialists about it and read as many studies on the cause as I've been able to find. Every single study on the cause I've ever read in my life concluded it was trauma.

You're the one who's tagging things as anti-endo. My tags are literally all related to DID, I made this blog because I want us to have our own space. If you don't want to be involved in the traumagenic community I'd genuinely recommend not interacting with us, I'm not trying to be snarky with this at all. If it makes you uncomfortable you have the right to set boundaries and not reblog posts or tag things anti endo. Block people you don't want to talk to. You're allowed to curate your online experience to what makes you comfortable, and again I really wholly mean this as genuine advice.

Idk what you mean by this, sorry.

Yes, because many patients don't remember trauma. Dissociation happens because of trauma. That is considered the psychological cause of dissociation. The majority of studies on it indicate this. I prefer to listen to what the science says.

Yes, but to act like it's the fault of people who believe DID is a trauma-based disorder is shifting the blame. There's a huge stigma toward multiplicity in general, and not enough therapists know how to recognize it.

It's harmful because it undermines everything we know about the disorder. It's actively going against everything we know about how it develops and why. It's also just generally quite offensive imo to tell someone who had to split because they went through horrible childhood trauma that you have the same thing as them when you didn't experience that. Again, idc if people identify as endo, but please don't claim to have the same thing as us because we had to develop this out of necessity.

You don't have to claim trauma. I was told I had it before every disclosing trauma. Psychologists are aware of the fact that many patients are not aware of their childhood.

It does not mean that. 20% do not report physical abuse ALONE. 10% do not report sexual abuse alone. Only 4.8% report to not have experienced either. That means only 4.8% don't report physical AND sexual abuse, but many DID patients do report other traumas. If you're interested in the studies on it, there are quite a lot on google scholar.

I'm not trying to say endos don't exist, I'm simply saying they do not have DID and shouldn't claim to. We went through hell in childhood and deserve to have our own spaces. I never said anyone wasn't important, everyone is. I think it's completely possible that there is a such thing as something similar to DID without trauma, I simply think it's completely rational for us to want to be able to talk about how our disorder formed with people who understand us in our own community. You have a right to yours.

TW for not graphic mentions of childhood trauma and kind of aggressive language lol, I'm annoyed

"DID isn't a trauma disorder, it's a dissociative disorder."

Uh huh, so we're going to ignore that dissociation is literally inherently associated with trauma? That when you Google literally any dissociative disorder, even more "mild" ones like dpdr, the main cause is listed as trauma on the majority of sources? That over 90% of DID cases report CSA/CPA alone, not even taking into account other forms of trauma like EA, neglect, medical trauma, etc?

There are a bunch of mental health conditions that are thought to be genetic, like many mood disorders, but they're not going to be classified as genetic disorders because the main symptoms of the disorder are associated with affect, not with the root cause of the disorder.

It's a dissociative disorder because the primary symptom is dissociation. That doesn't mean the cause isn't trauma. Dissociation happens when something is too upsetting or stressful to be fully present for. Be serious.

[syscourseside]

The science says that DID/OSDD is caused by trauma. Point blank period. If things change, I'm completely willing to listen to that, but the facts are not on your side if you're arguing that it's not caused by trauma.

I'm not pushing myself to see anything, I've done my own research and listened to my therapists. I honestly find it insulting that people are so unwilling to let trauma survivors who had to develop this to live through childhood have our own community. I honestly don't even care if people identify as endo, just leave us alone and stop acting like you have the same thing when DID patients literally have gone through years of horrific trauma.

I literally didn't say anything against people who are unable to get a diagnosis. I was in therapy for over five years before receiving my diagnosis and couldn't go to therapy for my entire life before that because of my family issues and financial situation. I know first hand what it's like to experience that. Idk why you brought that up tbh because that wasn't at all the point of the post.

Just because you can be diagnosed with DID without disclosing trauma doesn't mean it isn't caused by trauma. It's not in the diagnostic criteria because the nature of the disorder means many patients won't be aware of their trauma. However, if you read the full DSM-5 description, it actually does acknowledge that most patients do report abuse specifically, which doesn't even take into account other forms of trauma.

The studies showing that multiples have to wait between 5-12 years (not 16, I have no idea where you got that number) in the psych system were done on TRAUMATIZED PEOPLE WITH DID. Idk why you're acting like only endos are being affected by that because it's not even close to true.

Also, honestly, you should not get a diagnosis just because you want it. That's absurd to say. Yes, everyone should have access to mental health care and proper diagnostic procedures, but you should get an accurate diagnosis. Not the one you want.

Again, I HAD TO WAIT OVER FOUR YEARS. It's not an endo thing, people with DID and OSDD are the ones being affected by this.

Imo, endogenic rhetoric is incredibly stigmatizing and is hurting the trauma survivors who have to suffer with this every day. You are not the solution, you're the problem.

TW for abuse statistics under the cut:

Over 80% of DID patients report childhood physical abuse.

Over 90% report sexual abuse.

Over 95% report both physical and sexual abuse.

This study didn't even take into account any other forms of trauma (emotional abuse, neglect, systematic oppression, bullying, poverty, etc,) and still almost 100% of patients reported just that trauma alone. That seems like it's caused by trauma to me.

TW for not graphic mentions of childhood trauma and kind of aggressive language lol, I'm annoyed

"DID isn't a trauma disorder, it's a dissociative disorder."

Uh huh, so we're going to ignore that dissociation is literally inherently associated with trauma? That when you Google literally any dissociative disorder, even more "mild" ones like dpdr, the main cause is listed as trauma on the majority of sources? That over 90% of DID cases report CSA/CPA alone, not even taking into account other forms of trauma like EA, neglect, medical trauma, etc?

There are a bunch of mental health conditions that are thought to be genetic, like many mood disorders, but they're not going to be classified as genetic disorders because the main symptoms of the disorder are associated with affect, not with the root cause of the disorder.

It's a dissociative disorder because the primary symptom is dissociation. That doesn't mean the cause isn't trauma. Dissociation happens when something is too upsetting or stressful to be fully present for. Be serious.

[syscourseside]

That actually makes sense. I have noticed many people don't seem to know that healthy multiplicity actually requires integration (not fusion), and that alters will be closer together in any form of recovery because the dissociative barriers have to come down at least somewhat in order to function better. They both require integration, processing, increased communication, etc.

final fusion isn't a dirty thing. final fusion isn't a dirty word. final fusion is a healthy goal to work towards and tagging it makes no sense because it's a form of recovery.

in fact, there are multiple people who've achieved final fusion and it's going great for them. some of those people are on tumblr, right now.

trigger tagging integration and fusion and final fusion is hurtful to those very people. i'd go as far as to say it's ableism actually

[syscourseside]

Tom Holland stans in the rbs refusing to even think about the fact that the DID community as a whole has been calling this out is actually so gross and ableist. The stereotype of people with DID as violent has been perpetuated by multiple movies and TV shows, we hardly have any accurate or even remotely sensitive portrayals of our disorder in media. Trying to defend it just shows that you'd rather watch a show with a man who doesn't even know you exist than even bother to listen to actually mentally ill people who are directly impacted by this. If you've seen people with DID talking about how and why this is harmful and you still defend it, you're objectively ableist imo

I hope everyone fangirling over tom holland’s new series The Crowded Room remembers that you are getting this cost at the lives of real fucking people living with DID. You are watching a romanticization of a man who threw the DID community under the bus by winning a case of “my alter did it” which people have spent decades fighting against. You are letting the man who turned the serial killer alter into reality, who turned this disorder’s stigma REAL.

I hope you know that while you’re excited for you celebrity crush’s new series, we are getting mocked and harassed by citizens and medical fields alike. That we are getting driven to suicide and being murdered because of the fearmongering. This is the cost that comes with it.

You have blood on your hands.

[syscourseside]

This is a great list of sources and analysis of what the majority of research has concluded, wonderful research compilation 🙏☺️

The research on the other potential causes for dissociative identity disorder

The thing about people who don't think that Complex Dissociative Disorders are trauma disorders is that they seem to think that researchers just saw the first connection on the board (dissociation being connected to trauma) and automatically assumed with no other evidence or research into other options that Complex Dissociative Disorders are only trauma disorders. They think that researchers and professionals didn't look into other options first before deciding that Complex Dissociative Disorders are trauma disorders.

This is an absolutely insane notion that people seem to believe and this belief is evidenced by people only having read parts of the DSM, seeing that DID is in the dissociative disorders section rather than the trauma and stressor related disorders section, and by them claiming that other options haven't been explored.

This is false. Below are screenshots of citations of 18 different papers that I gathered on the subject of alternate causes for complex dissociative disorders and/or otherwise looking into the general phenomenology/epidemiology of complex dissociative disorders.

I gathered all of these sources from looking at two papers that examined complex dissociative disorders and the empirical evidence behind them and/or disproving common myths about DID, such as it being a disorder unrelated to trauma. Imagine how much more I could find if I expanded my looking into this subject into the references sited by the papers I mention here.

Researchers have tried to look for other causes for DID, for a variety of reasons from not believing in the existence of DID, wanting to cover their bases, or not believing that trauma could be this severe and prevalent towards children.

The verdict in the end is that the other theories don't hold up to the clinical evidence gathered over the course of decades.

Non-traumagenic DID is not possible. There is no reason for one to dissociate to such an extent that they have to disown their own life experiences repeatedly until the consciousness divide between the life experiences they do own and the ones that they disintegrate become separate identities.

At its core, pathological dissociation is a failure of integration of life experiences. This happens due to intense stress and trauma that a person experiences, and when they experience this stress and trauma during the formative experiences of their lives (i.e. childhood), these deeply traumatic and formative experiences are so unacceptable to them that there is no way for them to integrate these events into their autobiographical memory and sense of self, and have to say that these experiences happened to someone else: to someone who deserved it, to someone who could handle it, to someone who likes it, to someone who can't feel it, etc.

Alternatively, as a protection mechanism and/or an internal self self harm mechanism, they can own the actions of people perpetuating abuse against them and form an internal identity that is based around the perpetrators so that the trauma/abuse doesn't happen more, or to have some kind of internal control over their trauma/abuse.

They also form identities that do not remember, own or aren't affected by the memories of the trauma so that they can continue on in daily life with minimal effects from the trauma, where these parts may disown, try to disprove or otherwise heavily avoid the trauma, triggers for the trauma memories, or anything else that reminds them of the trauma.

This is how complex dissociative disorders cannot be anything other than trauma-based in nature. They are caused by trauma, and primarily exhibiting the symptom of dissociation to various extents.

Dissociative Identity Disorder is a trauma-based disorder, end of.

Further Reading:

“Boysen GA, VanBergen A. A review of published research on adult dissociative identity disorder: 2000–2010. J Nerv Ment Dis 2013;201:5–11” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 268)

“Şar V. Epidemiology of dissociative disorders: an overview. Epidemiol Res Int 2011;2011:404538” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 268)

“Brand B, Loewenstein RJ. Dissociative disorders: an overview of assessment, phenomenology and treatment. Psychiatr Times 2010 (Oct);27:62–9” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 267)

“Ross CA, Miller SD, Reagor P, et al. (1990b) Structured interview data on 102 cases of multiple personality disorder from four centers. American Journal of Psychiatry 147: 596–601.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 416)

“Ross CA (1997) Dissociative Identity Disorder: Diagnosis, Clinical Features, and Treatment of Multiple Personality. New York: Wiley.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Rodewald F, Dell PF, Wilhelm-Gößling C, et al. (2011a) Are major dissociative disorders characterized by a qualitatively different kind of dissociation. Journal of Trauma & Dissociation 12: 9–24.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Reinders AATS, Nijenhuis ERS, Quak J, et al. (2006) Psychobiological characteristics of dissociative identity disorder: A symptom provocation study. Biological Psychiatry 60: 730–740.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Putnam FW (2006) Dissociative disorders. In: Cicchetti D and Cohen DJ (eds) Developmental Psychopathology, Volume 2. New York: Wiley, pp. 657–695.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Myrick AC, Brand BL and Putnam FW (2013) For better or worse: the role of revictimization and stress in the course of treatment for dissociative disorders. Journal of Trauma & Dissociation 14: 375–389.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Middleton W and Butler J (1998) Dissociative identity disorder: An Australian series. Australia and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry 32: 794–804. Modestin J, Ebner” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“McDowell DM, Levin FR and Nunes EV (1999) Dissociative identity disorder and substance abuse: The forgotten relationship. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 31: 71–83.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Martínez-Taboas A (1991) Multiple personality in Puerto Rico: Analysis of fifteen cases. Dissociation: Progress in the Dissociative Disorders 4: 189–192.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Lewis DO, Yeager CA, Swica Y, et al. (1997) Objective documentation of child abuse and dissociation in 12 murderers with dissociative identity disorder. American Journal of Psychiatry 154: 1703–1710.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 415)

“Kluft RP (1993) Multiple personality disorder. In: Spiegel D (ed.) Dissociative Disorders: A Clinical Review. Lutherville, MD: Sidran Press, pp. 17–44.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Kluft RP (1984) Treatment of multiple personality disorder: A study of 33 cases. Psychiatric Clinics of North America 7: 9–29.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Brand BL, Classen C, McNary SW, et al. (2009c) A review of dissociative disorders treatment studies. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease 197: 646–654” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 413)

“Coons PM (1994) Confirmation of childhood abuse in childhood and adolescent cases of multiple personality disorder and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease 182: 461–464.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 413)

“Coons PM and Bowman ES (2001) Ten-year follow-up study of patients with dissociative identity disorder. Journal of Trauma & Dissociation 2: 73–89.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 413)

“Coons PM, Bowman ES and Milstein V (1988) Multiple personality disorder: A clinical investigation of 50 cases. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease 176: 519–527.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Dorahy MJ (2001b) Dissociative identity disorder and memory dysfunction: The current state of experimental research, and its future directions. Clinical Psychology Review 21: 771–795.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Eich E, Macauley D, Loewenstein RJ, et al. (1997) Memory, amnesia, and dissociative identity disorder. Psychological Science 8: 417–422.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Forrest KA (2001) Toward an etiology of dissociative identity disorder: A neurodevelopmental approach. Consciousness and Cognition 10: 259–293.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Ellason JW, Ross CA and Fuchs DL (1996) Lifetime Axis I and II comorbidity and childhood trauma history in dissociative identity disorder.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 414)

“Şar V and Ross CA (2009) A research agenda for the dissociative disorders field. In: Dell PF and O’Neil JA (eds) Dissociation and the Dissociative Disorders: DSM-V and Beyond. New York: Routledge, pp. 693–708.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 416)

“Şar V, Yargiç LI and Tutkun H (1996) Structured interview data on 35 cases of dissociative identity disorder in Turkey. American Journal of Psychiatry 153: 1329–1333.” (Dorahy et al., 2014, p. 416)

“Carlson ET. The history of multiple personality in the United States: I. The beginnings. Am J Psychiatry 1981;138:666–8.” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 266)

“Loewenstein RJ. Anna O: reformulation as a case of multiple personality disorder. In: Goodwin JM, ed. Rediscovering childhood trauma: historical casebook and clinical applications. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Press, 1993; 139–67.” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 266)

“van der Hart O, Dorahy MJ. History of the concept of dissociation. In: Dell PF, O’Neil JA, eds. Dissociation and the dissociative disorders: DSM-V and beyond. New York: Routledge, 2009:3–26” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 266)

“Dalenberg C, Loewenstein R, Spiegel D, et al. Scientific study of the dissociative disorders. Psychother Psychosom 2007;76: 400–1” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 266)

“Sar V. The scope of dissociative disorders: an international perspective. Psychiatr Clin North Am 2006;29:227–44” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 266)

“Brand BL, Loewenstein RJ, Spiegel D. Dispelling myths about dissociative identity disorder treatment: an empirically based approach. Psychiatry 2014;77:169–89” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 267)

“Brand BL, Classen CC, McNary SW, Zaveri P. A review of dissociative disorders treatment studies. J Nerv Ment Dis 2009; 197:646–54” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 267)

“Ross CA. Epidemiology of multiple personality disorder and dissociation. Psychiatr Clin North Am 1991;14:503–17” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 267)

“Loewenstein RJ, Putnam FW. The clinical phenomenology of males with MPD: a report of 21 cases. Dissociation 1990;3: 135–43” (Brand et al., 2016, p. 268)

[syscourseside]

10000% agree, especially people who trigger tag fusion but not healthy multiplicity. They're both forms of healing and recovery so why act like one is triggering while the other isn't? I feel it discourages people from final fusion when it can be the best option for many systems. We don't even plan on final fusion, at least not for a long long while, but it's so insensitive toward the people who have accomplished final fusion.

final fusion isn't a dirty thing. final fusion isn't a dirty word. final fusion is a healthy goal to work towards and tagging it makes no sense because it's a form of recovery.

in fact, there are multiple people who've achieved final fusion and it's going great for them. some of those people are on tumblr, right now.

trigger tagging integration and fusion and final fusion is hurtful to those very people. i'd go as far as to say it's ableism actually

[syscourseside]

So annoying how people will see systems with multiple psychiatric disorders as proof of malingering even though it's more common for people with OSDDID to have a lot of disorders than not. Research papers show people with DID have on average 5-6+ axis-I disorders alone, but people will still shit on systems with large amounts of diagnoses and be like "Omg they're collecting mental illnesses like pokemon cards what a faker!!" I'm getting real sick of ignorant ass fakeclaimers not doing 2 seconds of research.

[syscourseside]

TW for not graphic mentions of childhood trauma and kind of aggressive language lol, I'm annoyed

"DID isn't a trauma disorder, it's a dissociative disorder."

Uh huh, so we're going to ignore that dissociation is literally inherently associated with trauma? That when you Google literally any dissociative disorder, even more "mild" ones like dpdr, the main cause is listed as trauma on the majority of sources? That over 90% of DID cases report CSA/CPA alone, not even taking into account other forms of trauma like EA, neglect, medical trauma, etc?

There are a bunch of mental health conditions that are thought to be genetic, like many mood disorders, but they're not going to be classified as genetic disorders because the main symptoms of the disorder are associated with affect, not with the root cause of the disorder.

It's a dissociative disorder because the primary symptom is dissociation. That doesn't mean the cause isn't trauma. Dissociation happens when something is too upsetting or stressful to be fully present for. Be serious.

[syscourseside]

Sure. I'll hop on this trend.

DID isn't just friends in your head.

While yes, I love my system like family and we have good times together, that doesn't mean that these good times are the whole experience.

DID is having alters that don't know how to express that they care about you due to never being cared about themself.

DID is having some alters who hate themselves so deeply that its hidden from who they are on the surface.

DID was having to do horrible shit just to keep yourself alive and now living with severe survivor's guilt.

DID is being more prone to migraines.

DID is remembering a life no one else seems to remember.

DID is not remembering the current life you're living.

DID is having some alters who don't know how to cope with their trauma so they bury themselves in drugs.

DID is having some alters who don't know how to keep living. Genuinely thinking they'd be dead by now.

DID is being naturally selfish and mean because its what you had to be to survive.

DID is being a clueless child within your own mind, unsure why your friends break down and sob for no apparent reason.

DID is being excluded and punished for trying to simply exist with other people.

DID is not only not recognizing your own body, but not recognizing your own species.

DID is thinking you've got all the trauma figured out only for more to resurface.

No one should WANT DID. If you want DID... no you don't. You want a community. You don't want to live like this. I live like this because I have to. It was necessary for me to survive.

[syscourseside]

I literally want nothing more than for people with CDDs to have our own community/terms/etc without appropriation and invasion from endos lol, idk why they're acting like anti-endos are going to be like noooo come back.

Also imagine spending $45 on this.

SO, here's the scoop

Local endo that likes to send anon hate tries to incite violence over syscourse

highly questionable wording used to stay under the radar, product looks like crap on every available item

$45

$20

$30

Guys, don't be fucking assholes and send this person hate, it's literally just giving them life

[syscourseside]

Endogenic systems, a Masterpost

Endogenic systems have been a controversial topic in the system and mental health community for several years. The term "endogenic" refers to individuals who believe that they have multiple alters, but not caused by any trauma or abuse. These individuals often claim that their system is innate, and not a result of any external factors. However, the currently widely accepted theory of structural dissociation contradicts this belief, suggesting that endogenic systems are not possible. A large amount of people say that they are harmful, and this Masterpost will go over, and explain why they are, the history, and how to deal with them.

Although the topic of endogenic systems has been widely discussed, it is important to highlight the potential consequences of holding these beliefs. Endogenic systems have been criticized for spreading misinformation and harmful beliefs about DID and related disorders. These beliefs can be highly problematic, as they can lead to predatory behavior, causing harm to vulnerable individuals who may be struggling with their own experiences.

Furthermore, the term "endogenic" has a controversial history, which is essential to understand. The terminology "endogenic" was originally called "Natural multiplicity," but it was changed to avoid suggesting that systems formed by trauma were not natural. The term originated from two blog sites: "Astraeas web" and "dark personalities." The term was created by someone who claimed to have DID without the disorder and did not relate to disorder symptoms. Dark personalities was run by someone who was diagnosed with DID but was anti-psychiatry/anti-recovery. Both sites were extremely anti-medical, with articles promoting people with schizophrenia to stop taking medication and claiming ADHD is fake.

This history shows that the endogenic community has roots in anti-medical and anti-recovery beliefs, which can be harmful to individuals who are struggling with dissociative experiences. It is important to recognize that not all individuals who identify as endogenic systems engage in harmful behavior. Still, the potential consequences of holding these beliefs cannot be ignored or excused, as they can lead to harmful behaviors.

Moreover, it is crucial to highlight that the harmful behaviors associated with endogenic systems can cause real harm to individuals who may be struggling with dissociative experiences. The spread of misinformation about DID and related disorders can lead to predatory behavior, which can be harmful to vulnerable individuals who may be struggling with their own experiences. It is essential to remain vigilant against these harmful behaviors and misinformation to protect individuals who may be misled by these beliefs. Some of these beliefs include but are not limited to: Demonizing Persecutors, System hopping, Alter death, Hosts being "Suppressors", and alters and the systemhood being a religious thing, or choice "Tulpamancy" or "Willogenic" Systems

Furthermore, endogenic systems have created slurs to describe people who are educated about DID and related disorders, such as "Sysmed," "Traumascum," and "Sysnazi." These slurs are extremely harmful and offensive, comparing being a system to being transgender, people with trauma to scum, and educated systems to real-life Nazis. This shows how the endogenic community can act and treat others, which can be highly problematic.

The history

In the 1990s, a webpage called "Astraeas web" was created by someone who claimed to have Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). However, this person did not experience the typical symptoms of DID, and instead referred to their experience as "Natural Multiplicity" suggesting that one could form alters and System-hood outside of DID,OSDD,PDID. A large amount of people were upset over this. This site had also promoted the idea that people with DID should not seek treatment or take medication, and linked to articles that claimed medication "hid who they were" and that ADHD was fake and used to "chemically straightjacket" children.

This use of the term "Natural" implied that systems formed by trauma were somehow unnatural, which upset many people in the DID community. Additionally, this person's claims to have DID without experiencing the associated symptoms were controversial. Including but not limited to claiming the label was disempowering and a negative thing.

In 1998, another site called "Dark Personalities" emerged, which was run by someone. However, this site was very different from "Astraeas web" in that way that it was run by a individual who had been diagnosed with DID, yet claimed to be anti-DID, while under this guise it was anti-psychiatry and anti-recovery. The website purportedly showed the "dark" side of multiplicity and was considered to be triggering and a negative environment. The website aledgedly ran an anti-DID campaign and discouraged people from seeking treatment or taking medication, among other controversial claims, such as demonizing dormancy. The "Dark Personalities" site also had opposed NAMIS (National Alliance on Mental Illness) mental health screenings, claiming they were a front for child molestation.

In conclusion, it is clear that endogenic systems are not supported by scientific evidence and are often harmful and predatory. Although not all individuals who identify as endogenic systems engage in harmful behavior, the potential consequences of holding these beliefs cannot be ignored or excused. It is crucial to educate others about the truth behind these beliefs and avoid attacking individuals who hold them. At the same time, it is essential to remain vigilant against harmful behavior and misinformation to protect vulnerable individuals who may be struggling with dissociative experiences. Although, I would like to add possible reasons someone may identify with the label, here is some.

Systems who may be in denial of their trauma

Systems who may be mislead to believe that they are endogenic

People with other similarly presenting symptoms misidentifying their symptoms

People with factitious disorders

People who are misidentifying normal experiences, such as acting different around different people or having mood swings

People who think that being a system is 'fun'

Or lastly, someone who is claiming to be one to “troll” others

You may wonder, how do I deal with this. simple. Block them, don't interact with them, respect their boundaries, even though they harm the community treat them as human beings. A lot of the extremist behavior is from an us against them mentality, and be as kind as you can to them, and if they treat you negatively, do not humor them. just block them.

I hope this was informative.

"Astraeas Web." (n.d.). Multiplicity: The New Frontier. Retrieved from http://astraeasweb.net/plural

Schauer, M., & Elbert, T. (2010). Dissociation following traumatic stress. Journal of Psychology, 218(2), 109–127. https://doi.org/10.1027/0044-3409/a000018

Dimitrova, Lora I et al. “A neurostructural biomarker of dissociative amnesia: a hippocampal study in dissociative identity disorder.” Psychological medicine, vol. 53,3 1-9. 24 Jun. 2021, doi:10.1017/S0033291721002154

International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation. (2011). Guidelines for Treating Dissociative Identity Disorder in Adults, Third Revision. Journal of Trauma & Dissociation, 12(2), 115-187. https://doi.org/10.1080/15299732.2011.537247

Nijenhuis, E. R. S., & van der Hart, O. (2011). Dissociation in trauma: A new definition and comparison with previous formulations. Journal of Trauma & Dissociation, 12(4), 416-445. https://doi.org/10.1080/15299732.2011.570592

Vermetten, E., Schmahl, C., Lindner, S., Loewenstein, R. J., & Bremner, J. D. (2006). Hippocampal and amygdalar volumes in dissociative identity disorder. American Journal of Psychiatry, 163(4), 630-636. https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.ajp.163.4.630