#< here. treat for shippers to find. where those two are both nuts for their lines of thinking

[thedevotionaltour]

Daredevil #15 - "—And Men Shall Call Him...Ox!" (February 1966)

Written by Stan Lee Art by John Romita Sr. (pencils), Frank Ray (inks)

[thoughts-on-bangtan]

Memories of 2020 - Initial asks and a small discussion

*cracks knuckles* Here we go.

If any of you have spent any amount of time today on any ARMY sns platform, I’m sure you’ve seen the mess which, as seasoned ARMY, I can tell you was the exact same mess we see...every single time. I can’t particularly say I’m surprised by any of it, especially when watching the entire process, as in the first clips hitting the TL and then the rest slowly following suit like a flood building steadily as the hours went by.

From anon: be ready for insecure vminies 😂

I’m pleased to report it wasn’t actually as bad as I expected, though now that I’m typing this I probably jinxed my own luck and the flood of asks will come soon enough, but maybe not. I’m holding on to the latter.

Based on the cycle in which these things happen every time, as in that the first clips that hit the ARMY spaces are Xkook ones, followed by vmin and other ships, and lastly more OT7 content, I expected our asks to go haywire after that clip, you know which one I mean. But we’ve only gotten two (?) about it, kind of, so I guess most people understood that it was just for laughs and nothing serious that anyone would have to get insecure over.

From anon: Sigh. This is my first memories of bts as army and i'm already tired of how all of twitter seems to be about 1 j*/k*ok moment now. There were so many j*n/kook m*ments and hugs and a sweet h*pe/k*ok backhug moment and a good number of vmin moments including slow dancing so why is the focus always on that one ship?

Here’s the thing, maybe my TLs are just well curated, I don’t know, but on mine no one really focused on that moment? Even non-shipper OT7s just briefly had a chuckle and then moved along to other things, awww’ed at vmin moments, there was lots and lots of talk about J*nk*ok being super cute and there being so much content when it comes to their interactions, there was a lot of chatter about basically every duo and OT7 moment. I know ship specific spaces went nuts, Xkookers butting heads like their lives depend on it, but outside of them?

“All of twt” is an exaggeration and I know, believe me I do, that Xkookers have the ability to make it seem like everyone just cares about their moments because they themselves (the shippers) are loud and seemingly everywhere, but when you look past them, that isn’t the case. Shippers have a tendency to generalize, especially those who follow a lot of their fellow shippers, but when you step outside of shipper spaces, things look very differently.

Like anon said, though I’d like to preface this by saying that I haven’t seen the entirety of Memories of 2020 so I can only go by what I have seen though I’d say I’ve seen nearly everything that was posted on twt or at least as much as I could find (including Xkook things), there were a lot, and I mean a lot, of amazing moments between basically all the members, regardless of who your favorite duo might be, I’m sure there was something for you there. Even those who are supposedly a rarity. And even as vminnies, this time around we had a feast with so many amazing vmin moments, some funny ones, some random ones, some super cute ones, whatever you want, there is something there for you to find. And the same can be said about so many other duos, we even got Yoongi and Hobi FaceTiming each other, and Yoongi saying they look like a couple while looking at the pictures Hobi chose for the coffee truck he sent to Yoongi’s Daechwita MV filming set.

There’s one discussion I’d like to get out of the way below the cut, but after that I will have another post very, very soon in which I want us to just have some fun and look at vmin, namjin and the other moments because there is just so much to find. And this is just day one of people having the DVDs, these discussion will continue for a while because, like I mentioned before, Memories are a treasure trove for OT7 content and fun stuff, and there’s more than eleven hours worth of it to be watched, discovered and discussed.

But, okay, let’s get into that moment since anons wanted to talk about it and know my thoughts on it, so let’s do just that. And yes, other anon from a while ago, I remember you once mentioning how I shouldn’t talk about other ships and shouldn’t “debunk” them and their moments, though I’d hardly call this debunking, but as I said many times since our first post, I’m ARMY before I am a vminnie and namjinist, and our blog is called thoughts on Bangtan and, as far as I’m aware, both JK and Jimin are part of Bangtan, so I don’t see a reason why I can’t show my perspective on it and also voice my grievances with shippers when it comes to that moment. And, before anyone comes into our asks to yell at me for being toxic/problematic or only doing this to make my ship look better or whatever, no, that isn’t the point, like at all. 

“Debunking” moments makes literally no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things and doesn’t affect reality, all I am doing is having a chat just like everyone else. I’m not even asking you to agree with me, you’re more than welcome not to, I can’t and won’t stop you. Also, just so you know, my initial reaction was just to laugh amused by it, no hard feelings, so I’m not the bad guy.

That being said...the Xkook moment.

Here’s the thing, when it first surfaced many hours ago, the moment itself was cut down to show just the moment of Jimin leaning close to JK and JK leaning back and turning his head away so his cheek faced Jimin...and cut, some even cutting off the video before JK turned his head. That’s it. People, as in shippers, freaked out, and everyone else had a good laugh and moved along to other things, even vminnies were joking about it and everything. I saw none of my fellow vminnies getting angry or insecure about it. Then, as time went by, someone else posted that scene but this time also showing the things leading up to it, so putting it into context instead of removing it. With the context suddenly the whole thing looked and felt completely differently since moments prior Jimin was pretending to stab JK with the pointy end of his mic and then acted as though to check if he was d*ad, as in the end of the scene. Turns out it was just for giggles and not some grand romantic moment in a room full of people and a camera close to their faces.

By that time, of course, those who cared most about that moment had long decided what meaning this holds and didn’t care once context was shown. Gifs and art had already been created, the yelling was loud, and the fights between Xkookers were reaching levels of toxicity I hadn’t seen in a while, which was disgusting and fucked up the say the least. But, the thing is, I don’t think the moment itself was the issue. In context and as rational ARMY you know it was just Jimin playing around with JK as they usually do, things we’ve also seen other members do in similar (though not quite like this) fashion, and after eight years since debut and nine of knowing each other, this isn’t shocking or new in any way. No, the issue were Xkookers and the way they treated this moment, some even going as far as taking screenshots and editing them to make it seem like they were about to kiss, as in they changed the placements of their heads to fit their narrative, as well as others making gifs where they play the moment backwards (leaving out the part where JK leans his head away and to the side) and thus they created their own version of the moment which was different from what had actually happened.

That is my biggest issue with this whole thing. The blatant manipulation of moments to create narratives that don’t match reality, twisting them and using them in stupid pointless fights. But imagine vminnies were to do any of that, all hell would break loose and we’d be attacked without mercy because how dare, and yet they don’t follow their own “logic” and “rules”. It’s more than okay to find any and all moments cute, we all do, to make jokes and whatnot, but twisting context, manipulating it and basically creating your own version of it goes too far. 

Take what we are given as what it is, instead of what you want it to be.

So, now that that’s done, please fellow vminnies and ARMYs, don’t be insecure or let people ruin your mood and fun over it. It’s not worth it. Instead let’s check out and have a talk about some of the fun vmin and OT7 moments we got, along with other ones, including my reply to another anon when it comes to namjin. Of course what I will mention in the post (HERE) is basically just the tip of the iceberg since tumblr has a limit on pictures and everything, so just know there is so much more still left to see than just that.

Before I’ll go, for those who still feel a little insecure/doubtful/whatever else, while I was working on this post and the other one, another anon sent in this well timed vmin ask:

From anon: I have to say this as a Vmin supporter. Whatever is going on with Vmin we can rest assure what they is special/untouchable. They graduated HS & college together, going for Bachelors together. Jimin-ah I like you the most. I want to live with my lovely Taehyung for the rest if my life. Their future is together, friends/soulmates or more they said it. I won’t tear down other members closeness (good for them) their bonds don’t erase Vmins. I’m just happy with the moments Vmin allow us to see.

[cyn2k]

Sherlock Fic Recs (mostly lesser-known)

All right, I’ve recommended individual fics from time to time,and I certainly reblog fic rec lists, but this is the first time I’ve tried to assemble a Sherlock rec list of my own. I’m trying to select stories I’ve not seen often (or ever) on other lists for this, and they are in no particular order. Mind the tags. Nearly all are end-game Johnlock, although a couple are more gen.

Since this is my first time writing a fic rec list, please let me know if you enjoyed it.

A Telling Touch - by MikayoToudaiji, 91K, E, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson 

Post-Reichenbach. After Sherlock’s death, John manages to get himself re-enlisted and is sent back to war. But when two series of gruesome murders link home and outland together, John is suddenly faced with more battles than he could have imagined. A Reunion, multi-chapter, case fic.

This is one of my go-to fics. John is grieving the loss of Sherlock and back in the army, this time in Syria, courtesy of Mycroft, when he is called home due to the mysterious death of Irene Adler. Irene was the latest victim of a serial killer, but she has managed to leave John a mysterious message. Sherlock does eventually return, but badly injured. There’s a fascinating case fic, a very different and totally platonic Mary Morstan, Sebastian Moran makes an appearance, and a Mummy Holmes who’s absolutely lovely. I find this story so emotionally rewarding, on many levels.

Follow My Voice - by flawedamythyst, 9K, T, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

Sherlock's voice is all John has.

John is in a coma, and his only link back to the world is Sherlock’s voice. Told mostly from John’s perspective, the payoff when John finally wakes up is lovely.

Meeting Clara - by BlueSkye12, 2K, G, no pairings (pre-Johnlock, perhaps, if you squint)

John and Sherlock have a chance meeting with John's former sister-in-law and Sherlock learns a thing or two about John's return from Afghanistan.

Sherlock learns exactly how much damage John suffered from the bullet that brought him to London and that fateful meeting at St. Bart’s. Clara is very protective of John, even if he’s no longer her brother-in-law.

Bitter Sweet - by distantstarlight, 17K, E, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

Alpha John Watson is a retired army doctor with a chance to acquire an omega mate. He meets the most unusual omega he’s ever encountered.

A somewhat unusual take on A/B/O dynamics, where alphas need to have a use in life, either with a satisfactory career or as a parent to the next generation. Omegas, including Sherlock, are bought at auction, which some may find disturbing, but there’s no indications of maltreatment on anyone’s part. It’s Sherlock who has all the power in this relationship, although he’s deleted the reasons why. John may have to pay the price for that.

The Art of Seduction series - by flawedamythyst, 97K across 6 works, T to E, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, Sherlock Holmes/Jim Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes/many OMCs, John Watson/OMC, Mycroft Holmes/Greg Lestrade

Sherlock ran a website called The Science Of Seduction, on which he gave advice on the best ways to get laid, wrote blog entries detailing the results of his various sexual 'experiments' and generally contributed to the stereotype of 'every gay man is a sex-mad playboy'. John avoided the thing like the plague. AU in which Sherlock treats sex like he does crime in canon. Inspired by Queer As Folk UK, but it very quickly went its own way.

I love this series. Sherlock is obsessed, not with crime, but with sex. John is his flatmate and pretty much the only gay man in London with whom Sherlock has not slept. John pines, Sherlock sleeps with most of gay London, and they all go dancing every weekend. Then Jim shows up and ruins everything. Or does he?

Semper Fidelis - by Blind_Author, 57K, M, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, Mycroft Holmes/Anthea

Written for a prompt. Moriarty frames John and "Anthea" of betrayals which cause both of the Holmes brothers to cut them off. Cue BAMF!John and BAMF!"Anthea" doing their best to clear their names.

John and Anthea go on the run after they are both framed the same day. They protect one another and bond over the idiocy of their respective Holmeses. Both are in established, if hidden, relationships. They bond while on the run.

Evidence of Human Life - by thesardine, 17K, E, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

Sherlock's sanity deteriorates while he and John are stranded on a deserted island.

I basically summed this up in my personal bookmark as: Sherlock and John on a deserted island. They hunt seals, Sherlock periodically goes nuts, and they start having sex.   

This Doesn’t Feel Like Falling - by Dark3Star, 148K, E, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, pre Mycroft Holmes/Greg Lestrade

When he fell from St. Barts, Sherlock knew he loved John Watson. John couldn't love him back (or so he thinks). Now that he's back from the dead things are back to normal... sort of. When a serial killer targets increasingly high profile gay couples Sherlock is on the case. With a, possibly ill-advised, plan Sherlock and John go undercover as a couple to uncover the truth.

Part 1 of a series, although this is by far the largest part.  Your classic “married for a case” trope, taken to the extreme. There’s a decent case fic, a lot of mutual pining, and some interesting wedding planning. Heed the warnings, there are some pretty graphic depictions of violence when they finally confront the murderer.

The Secret Identity of John Watson - by scifigrl47, 27K, G, John Watson/OFC (but don’t let that scare you!)

Taken out of context, John Watson leads a terrifying life. You have to wonder what those poor women he dates thinks of it, especially if John decides to try keeping one away from Sherlock, and Sherlock decides that it'd be best if he could get rid of her. After all, Mycroft's taught him a thing or two about removing potential 'problems.'

Told from the point of view of the bank girl John saves and then dates. Guys, I am a total Johnlock shipper, and so is everyone else in this crack-fest, although they aren’t actually together. Samantha and her girlfriends are an absolute riot, and their impressions of both John and Sherlock are hysterical.

Small Steps - by crossroadrain, 16K, unrated, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

"It's John's birthday and all his army buddies have got him a prostitute for a laugh.

A/B/O fic, where Sherlock is an unwilling omega stripper hired to entertain for John’s birthday get-together with a bunch of his army buddies. When John takes him aside to protect him from his army buddies, he learns something more is going on. The writing is a little uneven, because the writer is not a native English speaker, but the story is quite good.

Endings - by Purple_Slippers_18, 3K, T, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

Fifty years. Eighteen thousand two hundred and sixty two days. It was a long time to be alive, never mind the thirty-four years Sherlock had breathed before he'd met John, which the man in question most certainly did not. As far as Sherlock was concerned, his life – the one whose memories he hoarded like a dragon protecting caverns of stolen gold – began on that serendipitous January afternoon when two strangers met in the research labs at St. Bart's.

Not for those who can’t deal with MCD or find assisted suicide disturbing, but they’re so in love here. Retirement!Lock.

Body Language - by CeruleanDarkangelis,2K, T Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

There is a language to dancing; a call-and-response from one body to another. Even with the poncy kind of dancing I knew he was versed in, the kind that requires classes and counting and rules, there is communication between bodies. Watching him now, I’m more than pleased to discover that he understands my dialect as well.

This is just 2K of absolutely hot dancing seduction. There’s a follow-up fic, Touch Me, about what happens when they get home

Blind series - by inspiration_assaulted, 19K across 3 works, G to T, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

Lt John Watson, 25, will do just about anything to stay in the Army, even if it means marrying a man he's never met. It's only for two years, and he'll probably be in Afghanistan the whole time. How much can his life really change?

Mycroft arranges a marriage between Sherlock and John, allowing John to stay in the army and Sherlock to pay for rehab. They write each other letters, but have never met. I originally read this story on FF.net and loved it. I was delighted to find it on AO3, which is easier on my eyes.

Words of One Syllable and At A Loss- GwendolynnFiction, 101K across 2 works on FF.net, M, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

The landmine at Baskerville leaves Sherlock deafened. Unable to stand living without his friend John agrees to learn to sign, but foreign languages cannot be learned in a void. Sherlock helps John learn to sign by finally learning to talk to him.

This was one of my early favorites when I first started reading Sherlock stories on fanfiction.net. The author has slightly different versions up on AO3, but I find these much more enjoyable, as their relationship just seems to work better. The followup story is what happens during the Moriarty trial and after the fall, when Sherlock has to return unexpectedly after John goes missing.

The Otter and the Hedgehog - by Trinity Fire, 23K on FF.net, T, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, Mycroft Holmes/Greg Lestrade.

Just when John and Sherlock think they have time to rest after a case, they get an unexpected surprise... Unexpected, yes, and fluffy!

This is a little uneven, and has a very awkward, very weird self-insert OC, but Sherlock the otter wandering around the flat tucking John the hedgehog into his scarf to carry him everywhere is just too cute!

Letters to a Soldier - by Pakmai, 70K on FF.net, T, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

Captain John Watson is a soldier in Afghanistan. Sherlock Holmes has just been admitted to a drug rehab facility, assigned to write a letter to an unknown soldier. He doesn't expect to get a letter back from someone as interesting as John. John doesn't expect to get letter from a recovering drug addict. Together they form an unlikely friendship through letters.

I’ll admit, it’s been a while since I read this one, but this series turned me into a big fan of epistolary fics. The follow-up fic, Letters to a High-Functioning Sociopath, finished after I’d stopped reading regularly on FF, so I admit I don’t know how the series ended.

Flare - by iMusicalMinji, 6K on FF.net, T, Sherlock Holmes/John Watson

John has a lot to learn about an elusive species when he ends up living with one. Like how he doesn't have to change under a full moon, how he is fireproof even if he cannot breathe fire himself, and how he loves the doctor. MythicalCreature!AU

A sweet dragon!Lock story, with some parental elements. Sherlock’s hoard made me laugh, and then I thought about it and it made sense. 

[nadziejastar]

I haven’t been the kh fandom long, but whenever I see the old sea salt content (Axel and Roxas) I see fans shipping them romantically and sexually together. And it’s fucking gross. Axel is an adult and Roxas is a child. And I see a good chunk of Axel/Roxas content, which is one factor on why the sea salt dynamic is super popular. Which again, gross.

Don’t forget the Roxas x Axel shippers who thinks it’s cute to ship a grown man and a child together. Like one of the reasons why Roxas and Axel fandom kinda bug me. People who LOVE to over step boundaries and do gross shit

Oh, yeah. I’ve been a fan for a long time, and it’s always bothered me. It was so big, especially after KH2. Honestly, I never understood why. I think the trolls I get are shippers. They’ll send me angry messages about how much they HATE seeing my posts in the tags all the time. You think they’d just…ya know, block me if that was the case? It’s really not that hard. But no. Of course they don’t. They have to personally message me, lol. I guess it makes them feel better?

Being Special

When it comes to what befell our late comrades at Castle Oblivion, ambiguity suits me just fine. But the Keyblade master and Roxas come out and say every little thing that comes to mind. Maybe that’s human, or maybe they’re just special.

I can’t stop anyone from shipping Axel/Roxas. But I honestly don’t know how anyone saw it as romantic from an objective standpoint, especially after Days. In KH2, Roxas made Axel feel like he had a heart.

We don’t have hearts, so we accept the facts we’re given as the truth. But something far more important lies behind that truth. Saïx would laugh at people with no hearts calling one another friends, but that doesn’t make it not so. As the Nobody of the hero of the Keyblade and the Replica of that Nobody, these two are special. Unique in every sense of the word.

But Sora and Xion made him feel the same way. And he didn’t even know Sora personally. I think it was extremely important that Saïx didn’t think people without hearts could be friends. Axel was desperately lonely when he met Roxas and this cannot be overlooked. He and Sora were both special to Axel.

Axel: Love is what happens if there’s something really special between two people.

Roxas: You mean, like, if they’re best friends?

Axel: Well, you can care about your friends, I guess, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

But not in this kinda way. I also find Roxas/Axel gross. And creepy. When I see Axel/Roxas art it just feels so degrading to Axel. He’s SO much better than that. He enjoyed Roxas’ company because he was so pure and innocent. Being romantic with Roxas was the last thing on his mind. The whole idea was that Roxas and Xion are like Sora. He has the pure heart of a child, and can connect to many people. Axel was one of those people. They were special to Axel because they made him remember who he used to be.

Roxas: If I had a heart, you think I could love somebody?

Axel: Once Kingdom Hearts is complete, you’ll be able to do all kinds of things.

Roxas: That’s good.

Axel is not the type of person who would be interested in someone who he didn’t have an equal relationship with. Axel had to teach Roxas basic facts about life and human relationships. He didn’t know what friends were, or what love was. He was 15, but a lot of the time he was more like a little kid due to his amnesia. They were NOT on equal levels. Any romantic interest in Roxas would be exploitative and gross. I was happy with how Days handled Axel/Roxas.

Xion’s Conception

Where did the initial concept for the character Xion come from? Was she perceived before the completion for Kingdom Hearts 2?

Nomura: The name Xion and her background story was thought of and constructed during the production of this title, but we actually had the concept for a girl character like Xion drawn up since Roxas’s defection from Organization XIII. Therefore during the production of this title, we just worked on expanding on the ideas we had for that girl character and wrote Xion’s story around that concept.

Nomura said they came up with the idea of a girl around the time they imagined Roxas’ defection. Personally, I think one of the reasons he emphasized this point was because he was taken aback by the Roxas/Axel shipping. I think the huge popularity of the ship made Nomura and the team uncomfortable, since it’s not really…appropriate. I definitely think he wanted to distance himself from that interpretation, since he loves Axel, and that was not the impression he wanted his character to leave. I think Axel was always envisioned as a lonely guy, who had a tragic life history. He was an assassin, after all. But he was cool and decent. He wasn’t like all of the other members. He wasn’t supposed to come off like he was a sexual predator interested in a kid. That’s not cool.

How did you come up with Xion, who became such a key person in the storyline?Nomura: We showed how Roxas left Organization XIII in KH2. At the same time as we were polishing off the KH2 project, we had assumed to a certain extent what Roxas’ movements were during the time period when Days happens, and thought that “Roxas definitely left the Organization because of the influence of someone close to him.” And, we thought that “someone” should be a girl his own age. Flowing from that, we began to construct the storyline, beginning with Xion’s existence.

They thought a girl his own age should be the main influence causing him to leave. Roxas/Axel being the only important people in each others’ lives would send the wrong message. Xion was a necessary member of the trio to send the right message. 358/2 Days went out if its way to distance itself from the shippy interpretation of Axel/Roxas.

Xion’s memories were really Sora’s. But the form she had taken was reminiscent of Kairi. And that was because of Sora’s memories inside Roxas—the memories that knew Kairi as someone precious to him. Like Xion had become someone precious to Roxas.

I remember thinking that when I first played it ten years ago, too. It’s not that Roxas didn’t care about Axel. But Xion was special to him. That kind of special. The game was not even subtle about it. Roxas had a love interest and it was NOT Axel. He wasn’t broken up when he parted with Axel like he was with Xion. Their scene was really intimate. Roxas cried. Their Mystery Gear is “Aubade”. An aubade is a morning love song or poem about lovers separating at dawn. It’s the morning version of a serenade. And since both Roxas and Xion were influenced by Sora and Kairi’s memories, it made sense that they were the primary couple. Sora’s memories of Kairi are his most precious. That’s what Roxas and Xion’s whole relationship was about.

Roxas likes Girls

Xaldin: All the servants speak highly of her. It’s only fitting someone so well regarded would be given such fine lodgings.

Roxas: She’s pretty, isn’t she?

Roxas was like Ventus.

Merryweather: Stop, you get away from her!

Ven: Wha– Oh, I’m sorry. It’s just, I’ve never seen anyone so beautiful.

Unlike Axel, he noticed pretty girls. He didn’t express any interest in Axel that way (thank God). But he took a particular interest in Xion right away.

Axel: Did something happen yesterday?

Roxas: Nah, it’s nothing.

Axel: …Girls sure are complicated, huh?

Roxas had girl issues. Axel was amused by it. He knew Roxas liked Xion and he couldn’t have cared less. Because he didn’t look at Roxas that way.

Roxas: How did you know that’s what I was thinking?

Axel: Because you’re not so complicated. But don’t take it personal. Most Nobodies aren’t.

Roxas: You mean…real people are more complex than us?

Axel: Well, sure! Especially if they’re real and female. That’s like a double dose of complicated.

Axel thinks he’s not complicated. It’s his way of saying that they’re not on equal levels, psychologically. As an adult, Axel can’t relate to Roxas in the necessary way to have an intimate relationship.

Axel: Well, just give her some time.

Roxas: Why?

Axel: Because if you rush in there and try to fix things, you’ll just press more buttons.

Roxas: Fine, whatever.

Axel: Ha ha. You’re all right, kid.

Roxas: Don’t call me “kid”!

Roxas: Stop laughing!

Axel even calls him “kid”.

Ven: What does THAT mean?

Terra: You’ll find out someday, I’m sure.

Ven: I wanna know now.

Terra: You’re too young to know now.

Ven: Quit treating me like a kid.

Like Terra did with Ven. And he hated it just as much as Ven did. It was clear to me that Terra and Aqua were on the same level with each other, and related to Ven differently. Roxas and Xion were on equal levels, and related to Axel differently.

Roxas/Xion & Sora/Kairi

Axel: Roxas… Xion is like a mirror that reflects you.

Roxas: What?

Axel: The Organization made her to duplicate your powers. She’s a puppet.

Roxas: Have you gone nuts? Xion’s a person, not a puppet.

Axel: She’s smoke and mirrors, Roxas. And when I looked in the mirror…It wasn’t you I saw.

Roxas: I don’t know what you’re talking about, but Xion is Xion. You can’t expect her to be me.

Axel: That’s not what I mean, Roxas. It was only a matter of time before somebody had to break the mirror.

Roxas got angry when Axel fought Xion.

Roxas: You mean destroy her. Answer me!

Axel: Roxas, if somebody doesn’t, you’ll… You won’t be you anymore.

Roxas: I’ll always be me! Your best friend–just like Xion!

Axel: Roxas, you’re…you’re not seeing the bigger picture. Any of it.

Roxas: Ugh, forget this.

Axel: Roxas! Why can’t you understand…

He wouldn’t listen to what Axel was telling him, even though Axel was trying to save him.

Xion: What, did you two have a fight?

Roxas: I can’t believe that jerk would actually attack you.

Xion: So he’s a jerk now? Roxas, I wouldn’t be sitting here with you if Axel hadn’t done that. He’s your best friend.

Roxas: So are you.

Even Xion defends Axel, and tries to explain that he just did what he had to do. Roxas won’t even listen to her. He can’t think clearly when it comes to Xion. It was like Sora in Castle Oblivion. He wouldn’t listen to Donald and Goofy when they tried to reason with him about Naminé. And since both situations involved memories of Kairi, this made sense.

Xion: Here, I brought you this. It’s a seashell. I’ve been picking one up every time I go out on a mission. Hold it up to your ear.

Roxas is sentimental about the seashells Xion left him. He put them by her bed too, when he was afraid she wouldn’t wake up.

Xion: It’s too late…for me to undo my mistakes. But you can’t let Xemnas…have Kingdom Hearts. You can’t. Good-bye, Roxas. See you again. I’m glad…I got to meet you. Oh…and of course, Axel, too. You’re both my best friends. Never forget. That’s the truth.

It was the only thing she left behind after telling Roxas to never forget. He sheds a tear for her.

Xion: Roxas, don’t be sad. I came from you and Sora. I am you…the same way that I am Sora. You’ll forget me, but the memories themselves will never go away. Memories of you and me will always be together…forever, inside him.

It all suggested to me that Roxas had romantic feelings for Xion. The seashell thing was special—something meaningful only between them. It was very personal, related to their memories of Destiny Islands. Something only they would understand about each other. They’d never forget each other. Like Sora and Kairi.

Axel’s Memories

However there were two parallel stories in Days. Roxas and Xion’s connection to Sora was one. But Axel’s connection to Sora was the other. Xion was born in Castle Oblivion. And Axel changed after coming back from there. He told Roxas Sora rubbed off on him. Sora’s memories of Kairi formed Xion. But his memories of Kairi also had a connection to Axel, too. Axel and Sora had parallel character arcs in Castle Oblivion. He had special memories of his own that nobody else would understand.

Axel: You will need to follow your memories. Trust what you remember and seek what you forget. Then you will find someone very special.

Goofy: You mean King Mickey and Riku?

Axel: You will just have to give some more thought to who it is that’s—most important to you. Our most precious memories lie so deep within our hearts that they’re out of reach. But I’m sure that you can find yours, Sora.

Axel started off trying to manipulate Sora.

Riku: And as long as they’ve got their hands on Sora’s most precious memories–the ones of Kairi–I don’t think Sora will recover.

Sora’s most precious memories were of Kairi. These were going to be the key to manipulating his heart, using Naminé. All of his memories would be replaced, and he’d be under the Organization’s control. But Axel was impressed by the strength of his heart and changed his mind.

“I mean, Demyx doesn’t have a heart, but he’d go nuts if you took his sitar, wouldn’t he?” Roxas tried.

“Huh…you’ve got a point. So, okay, say you don’t need a heart for things to be important to you… Maybe the closest thing we Nobodies have is our pasts. It’s the memories that give things value.”

After coming back, when Axel is asked what’s most important to him, he says it’s his memories of the past.

Day 150: Too Precious to Lose

Xion didn’t come to the clock tower again today. She and Saïx had some kind of argument. Axel and I talked for a while about the things we can’t bear to lose. Axel thinks that for Nobodies, it’s our pasts, because that’s all we have to remember the pain of losing something.

They’re too precious for him to lose—his weakness. Just like Sora’s memories of Kairi were.

Marluxia: In this place, to find is to lose, and to lose is to find. That is the way in Castle Oblivion.

Sora: Castle Oblivion?

Marluxia: Here you will meet people that you have known in the past. And you will meet people you miss.

They are all that’s left to remember the pain of losing something. Which was what Castle Oblivion was all about.

Goofy: Don’t worry, fellahs! We might forget about where we’ve been or what hings we’ve seen, but we won’t forget who are friends are.

Donald: I don’t know…

Goofy: C'mon, Sora, when you turned into a Heartless, did you forget about me and Donald?

Sora: Of course I didn’t!

Goofy: There ya go! No matter what happens, you won’t forget your friends.

Sora: Huh… You’re right. Thank you, Goofy.

Donald: So, if there’s nothing here that can make you forget about your friends…then we have nothing to be scared of! Let’s go!

Axel was intrigued that Sora retained a sense of self after becoming a Heartless. It was because of the strength of his heart. He never forgot his friends. Kairi was even able to change him back because she couldn’t forget him.

Lea: I want everybody I meet to remember me. Inside people’s memories, I can live forever.

Isa: I know I won’t forget you. Believe me, I try all the time.

Lea: See, I’m immortal!

Axel felt the same way in the past as Sora did. He remembered who he was thanks to being in Castle Oblivion.

Sora: Why me?

Axel: You have lost sight of the light within the darkness. And it seems that you’ve forgotten that you forgot.

Axel knew that Sora’s memories were going to be distorted and he’d forget Kairi.

Axel: Nothing lasts forever, man. Least of all for a bunch of Nobodies. But you know, we’ll still have each other…even if things change and we can’t do this anymore.

Roxas: Yeah?

Axel: As long as we remember each other, we’ll never be apart. Got it memorized?

But it was really Axel who had forgotten that he’d forgot.

Axel: Would you like me to give you a hint?

Sora: I’m gonna figure it out for myself. If you’re in my way—

Donald: Don’t worry, Sora! We’ll protect you!

Axel: Good answer. Just what I’d expect from the Keyblade master. But be forewarned… When your sleeping memories awaken, you may no longer be who you are now.

He told Sora that he’d no longer be the same after his sleeping memories awakened. 

Naminé: No matter how much I change his memory, Sora will never forget Kairi. Memories of me— More false memories of me will just make his feelings for Kairi even stronger than before. Because…I’m the shadow of Kairi.

But Sora was able to stay the same. Naminé changed sides, and his memories were restored. He wouldn’t even remember Castle Oblivion afterwards.

Talking to Roxas and Xion always brings back memories of my human life, back when I was a kid. It’s a weird sensation. I ought to be able to share all this with Saïx, but I just don’t feel like it anymore. It’s strange, but I’m content with just missing what’s gone. I’m not the one who changed. You did.

Axel’s words were foreshadowing himself. After his sleeping memories awakened, he’s the one who changed. But he really just went back to being his true self. Axel’s memories of Isa were the equivalent of Sora’s memories of Kairi. Sora slowly forgot who was most important to him. Axel slowly remembered who was most important to him. It’s sad that Lea’s relationship with Isa was so underrated, and got treated with such little respect. If the popularity of the Roxas/Axel ship had anything to do with it, then that is just sad and pathetic.

[balladedutempsjadis]

On the state of the ship ...

Apparently, Nikolaj has said some things in post-finale interviews that are upsetting my fellow J/B fellow shippers. Now I am no stranger to being frustrated, angry and upset with this show, and specifically with how it has treated Jaime, Brienne, and Jaime/Brienne.  Those of you I’ve only recently “met” may not know this, but I rage-quit the show after episode 4.10, when Jaime does the exact opposite of what he does in the books, and has sex with Cersei in the White Sword Tower. At that point, I became 100% convinced that there was absolutely nothing romantic ever, ever, ever going to happen with Jaime and Brienne, and that the same was either true of the books, or it was a minor story that D&D felt they could cut out (like Arianne Martell, like fAegon/Jon Connington) because it didn’t really matter to the ending of the whole tale. 

I only started watching again nearly two whole seasons later because I saw all the GIFs of Riverrun on Tumblr and Nikolaj talking about it afterwards, and man, I fell down the rabbit hole again so thoroughly I may never find my way back again. I’m mentioning this to establish my salty-as-fuck non-show-loving credentials, so that perhaps what I say next may help those of you in despair over the non-happening of J/B in season 7. I’m not worried. I’m really not! I have faith in GRRM and to a much lesser degree D&D (because see above re: 180, and the time Jaime has spent with Cersei long, long, long past his quitting time in the books) that they are going to finish the story they have set up since Jaime’s and Brienne’s journey of bonding and pain together in Storm of Swords/Seasons 2-3. (And by finish in GRRM’s case, I mean he told D&D the ending for these characters, and it must matter that they are together, and by finish in D&D’s case I don’t mean to imply that it will be entirely satisfying. BUT I do think they are ending up together.)

I agree that Jaime’s journey to being his own man has been excruciatingly and frustratingly slow on the show, but … he is literally at the same place on the show now that he is in the books (far away from Cersei’s crazy because Brienne asked him to do something) and he is way more aware of his feelings and Brienne of hers than their book counterparts.  If, as Nikolaj says, it’s always going to be Cersei for Jaime, there were ways to write, film, and edit the storyline to make that be what we are seeing onscreen. But that is emphatically NOT what they did onscreen

Here’s the thing: they brought Brienne to Riverrun last season and Brienne to KL this season for ONE REASON. Just one. It was to establish that she and Jaime have romantic and sexual feelings for one another, that they *LOVE* one another, but have never been in a position to act on that love and desire. If it were only ever going to be unrequited one-sided love from Brienne for the flawed worthless Jaime who is irrevocably bound to Cersei, they would have had her THINK about him, sigh, and go about her business. 

Brienne isn’t at Riverrun in the books; Jaime handles that entire situation in the same way not because Brienne’s presence gives him a stake in the peaceful transfer of power, but because it’s the honorable thing to do (more on that later). Instead, on the show, they had her come to give Jaime a compelling personal reason to make sure there was no battle in which he and Brienne would be on opposite sides. They had Bronn spell out that this is a SEXUAL attraction by saying that from the way Jaime looks at Brienne and Brienne looks at Jaime, it’s clear they want to fuck each other. That scene, those lines, weren’t to set the stage for her to find true love with Tormund or some other guy we haven’t met yet. I think D&D are somewhat mediocre writers, and there are lots of things I quibble about with them, but THAT is just not something anyone who puts a drama onscreen would do. 

The show framed the scene in Jaime’s tent a certain way that was done for a reason, a reason that was repeatedly spelled out in offscreen interviews, and in commentaries, by the actors, the director, and the showrunners. They want us to know that Jaime loves Brienne and that - at this time - because he also has a relationship with Cersei, and because Brienne serves his enemies, they CANNOT act on that love and attraction.

As disappointingly short as the Dragonpit interaction was, if Jaime and Brienne were never going to be a thing, there was no need for her to be in KL. They could have had her go on the wight hunt as apparently originally planned. She came to King’s Landing because she needed to be there, to be a part of the cascading series of events and people this season telling Jaime Lannister that he needs to nut up and make his goddamn choice at last.  

And to lampshade that, Jaime sits there, watching Brienne, the most honorable person he knows, the person who TRUSTS HIS HONOR to whom he has GIVEN HIS HEART, and WHILE he’s watching her, WHILE she’s watching him, and his sister/lover is also watching him, Jon Snow says that he can’t serve two queens at once (JUST LIKE JAIME CANNOT SERVE TWO QUEENS, OR BOTH LOYALTY AND HONOR.) Jon made his choice; Jaime - who is in so many ways an older, bitterer, more damaged (even though he didn’t DIE!) Jon - has to make the same choice.

Again, there’s a reason why BRIENNE is there, why the show focuses on the looks between her and Cersei and Jaime, and the showrunners talk about them after the episode (we didn’t talk about why Varys is looking at whoever he’s looking at, did we?) There’s a reason why the ONLY other person Jaime talks to after the wight-demonstration besides his brother and his sister … is Brienne. The fate of humanity is in the balance and Jaime talks to THREE people, the three people whom he loves: Brienne, Tyrion, and Cersei. There’s a reason why BRIENNE tells him “fuck loyalty”; after all, the last time they met, she said “honor compels me to fight for Sansa’s kin.“ 

Sidebar: in the lead to “fuck loyalty” I almost got the impression Jaime was not only shielding Brienne from Cersei by his gruff antagonism towards her, but shielding himself too. How painful that he’d let himself almost hope that he and Brienne could be on the same side - the right side, for once in his life - and … then that all got yanked away from him. That’s why he’s so angry at Jon; because if Jon had only been diplomatic, maybe Cersei would have said "yes." 

That’s why he calls Jon a dolt while at the same time, Jon’s words about not serving two mistresses strike at the heart of Jaime’s dilemma. “So many vows, they make you swear and swear …” He served Cersei because of his loyalty to his family and to the woman whom he loved and who bore his children; he wants to serve humanity, and he needs someone to tell him what he knows deep down: some vows matter more, some causes matter more. The thing is that Jaime did that once: he tried to save a portion of humanity at the expense of the loyalty he vowed to Aerys. And that did not turn out so well for Jaime personally. 

Jaime can’t let himself act on his feelings towards Brienne, or even let himself feel what he does, or to think tenderly about her, because he thinks they’ll be killing each other, in a situation over which - unlike Riverrun - he has no control. Or perhaps even worse, Brienne will be off fighting this army of the dead, and will die far away from him.  So he puts up his walls to deal with her and the feelings he doesn’t want to feel, and then she blows up those walls with two words, and he’s got to face that dilemma again, and make the choice that he knows is right. 

And the reason Brienne is there saying these things is that she is the only person Jaime will listen to this statement from: Cersei and Tyrion are too devious, and have their own agendas. Brienne is the only truly honest person he knows. And also he will listen to her because he LOVES her, and it’s clearly devastating to him to think of being on opposite sides of a battlefield from her. (Look how relatively happy and calm and at peace he is when he’s talking to his commanders about the troop movements - he’s finally fighting for a cause that he believes in, and he’s finally going to be on the same side as Brienne.) And there is a reason why this is framed not as "Brienne asks Jaime to do something and he does it” but as “Jaime becomes his own man and Brienne is a huge part of that, because she made him want that, but she isn’t the ONLY reason he does this." 

 At Riverrun, where, in the books, Brienne never makes an appearance, Jaime did something (relatively) good because of Brienne’s being there; in the books, Brienne comes to Jaime at Pennytree, and he leaves with her, letting Cersei face whatever her fate is alone, which is kind of what he does at the end of ‘The Wolf and the Dragon.” They flipped Riverrun and Pennytree from the books, basically, and it’s because - and I FIRMLY believe this - in order for Jaime to be Brienne’s soulmate, to be worthy of the love that she has bestowed on him, he needs to be his own man. In the books, the order was different; he was already well on his way to fashioning himself anew at Riverrun; he didn’t need Brienne there to remind him of his honor and his vows, because he remembered them perfectly well by himself. Do I prefer the book version? In some ways, yeah. But on its own terms, the show version of the breakup also works for me. 

I guess I just don’t think there’s really that much cause for despair right now. Jaime left Cersei; Jaime LEFT Cersei. Brienne played a huge role in that choice, because Jaime chose to be the honorable man Brienne believes him to be, when she wasn’t even there to witness it. Let me say it again: HE LEFT CERSEI. He left her because he made a pledge and he intends to keep it. He left her because everything Brienne and Jon and Tyrion said sank in - he’s a slow learner but he got there in the end. 

Jaime’s lonesome departure from King’s Landing at the end of his s7 arc is giving a DIRECT lie to what Tywin told him in Season One: Tywin told Jaime ONLY his family mattered. But in fact, ever since he met Brienne, Jaime has been on a trajectory to understanding that individuals, their choices, and their actions, not their blood or breeding, are what truly matters. Jaime matters because he is JAIME, not because he’s a Lannister of Casterly Rock; his actions and choices - as an individual -  make a difference and have done since the moment he acted as an individual to save Brienne from rape. That’s why it’s so important that he left KL, alone, as one soldier in the war for the dawn, not as the General of all the Lannister armies.  Earlier this season, Olenna Tyrell said that Cersei, who is guarded literally by a dead thing, who chooses not to help the living fight the dead, would be the death of Jaime; well, Jaime left his death behind in King’s Landing and rode off to find his life, in the person of the woman who recalled him to life when he wanted to die. 

[therandomwatcher]

Sherlock Season 4 Review

There will be spoilers. You have been warned. There are some really in-depth reviews out there. This one won’t quite be that, but I will touch on some things that stood out to me. First off I would like to address Johnlock. I know there is a very dedicated section of the fandom that ships it like FedEx. That’s cool. I respect all ships even though I’m not a shipper of anything myself. That being said, it’s really not fair to the writers to accuse them of queerbaiting if John literally yells out “I’m not gay!” in more than one episode, and later turns out not to be gay. One of the redeeming features of this season I think is how many scenes are available as Johnlock fodder now. That’s some serious fan service and didn’t have to be there. If you are a Johnlocker, break out the fanfic and deviant art and go nuts! But don’t blame the writers for not doing what they said they wouldn’t do, that’s not really fair. Now that several readers have probably left in irritation, let’s get on to the episodes. If there was a theme to sum up season 4, I think it would be “No matter how smart you are, you always should study the night before the test.” Steven and Mark are very talented writers who have given us some absolutely outstanding episodes. But they were not at their best in season 4. The Six Thatchers

This episode I would say was the strongest of the 3. It was a straightforward case, with a few attached to the side for interest and wrapped up some interesting points about Mary’s past. But there were a few glaring issues. -John text-cheating with the Woman from the Bus There was zero development for it. You can’t write a character who fails spectacularly with the ladies for all of Season 1 *and* 2, and then try to turn him into 3 Continents Watson. It just doesn’t work. 

-The Aquarium Scene Boy, where to start with this one. Vivian has shown up and clearly has a gun in her purse. She has already had several people killed on her orders so it’s not a leap to believe she brought it here because she thought she would need to use it and is capable of doing so. The episode tries to pin the blame on Sherlock for “winding her up”. Except it comes across more like Sherlock is trying to distract her into shooting him instead of Mary since she’s got the gun on both of them. Perhaps Mary will be able to use her assassin skills to take Vivian out while she is busy shooting Sherlock. It’s not a great plan, true. But it’s about the only way left for him to keep his vow of trying to keep her safe in this situation. The London police are apparently worthless. Their idea of dealing with someone threatening two people with a semi-auto handgun that holds an entire magazine worth of bullets, is to stand and wait until they actually shoot the victims and then move in to arrest them...even though there are still several bullets left in the gun and they aren’t any safer for having waited (to say nothing of the victim). What the actual fark was that? 

The big one of course, is Mary being literally faster than a speeding bullet. I quite honestly laughed here. It was so ridiculously fake. We’re talking 1950′s serial tv show fake. Even if i were to believe that it is reasonable to expect someone to move faster than a bullet traveling at over 1,200mph, the fact that Mary, being closer, was able to jump in front, but Sherlock wouldn’t be able to jump out of the way, is not playing honestly with your own movie physics. There are quite a few completely understandable conspiracy theories out there now thanks to this scene.

The fabulous acting during the actual death scene was the only redeeming point of this entire scene. Shout out to Amanda especially!

Beyond that, we have the death of a character who they spent nearly all of season 3 developing, and then they just shuffle her off with the excuse that it needs to be about “the boys”. Except John has a baby now, and as anyone with a baby will tell you, you have zero free time to be running around with your best friend solving crimes. Mary could have easily filled the “I’m finally enjoying a normal life you need to go out and get some excitement” hole here, with perhaps the occasional professional opinion thrown in for fun. But no, they managed to make John’s situation actually *worse* in terms of being able to spend time with Sherlock.

The Lying Detective

-Sherlock being high the entire episode did it no favors. It got annoying after a while trying to figure out what was “real” and what was not. Nobody is watching Sherlock because they want to question reality. They watch for brilliant deductions of small minutia. This is literally the opposite of that.

-John in explicably blames Sherlock for Mary’s death. Sherlock inexplicably agrees. Regardless of whether you think Sherlock “wound up” Vivian, Mary leaping in front of the bullet pretty much absolves Sherlock of his vow to keep her safe. Neither of them are apparently capable of respecting her individual choice.

-Smith is a creepy farker. Props to the actor for that. It was a relief to see the listening device in the cane, some glimmer of “Sherlock” is actually showing here.

The Final Problem

I’m sorry, but this entire episode was teh suck.

We had an episode that was 2 X-Files episodes and a healthy dose of Firefly. I love both shows, don’t get me wrong! But when I order steak, I’m not happy to get pizza...regardless of how much I like pizza. I’m here for Sherlock...not X-Files or Firefly. The age gap is also a problem. The entire series runs without a “viewer discretion is advised” except for this episode. So anyone who might not be into darker shows has to decide if they will watch and find out what happens after years of waiting...or risk seeing an episode that will have a potentially very negative effect on them. That is profoundly not cool and I was very disappointed in the production staff about this. Evil River Tam is apparently Sherlock’s secret sister. Who is insanely smart, and was shipped off to a government facility after she killed his best friend when they were little. But she’s too useful figuring out terrorist attacks and such so they give her “treats” in exchange for her cooperation. Sherlock, utterly traumatized, has since blocked her out, and concocted a family dog in place of his friend. It got “put down” in the mind palace of His Last Vow, and now has drowned. This makes no sense without playing the ‘nothing is what it seems card’ to the point where you literally are telling the audience that nothing they saw up to this point is really part of the plot. “Things aren’t what they seem” as a plot device is a solid option, but don’t go full “Lost”. It is a serious disservice to the viewers who spend their time watching the show, to tell them that they have wasted a large chunk of it on something utterly meaningless.

While it wasn’t quite as bad as Mary leaping in front of a speeding bullet, we have John and Sherlock leaping out of glass windows and falling 2 stories onto pavement without any injury during an explosion. Such a far far cry from Molly coldly explaining how a bullet doesn’t hit with a spurt of blood and drama. (Oh wait, it did for Mary didn’t it?), it was disappointing to see them dive so far into movie physics after making the effort to *not* do that in other episodes.

We then get a tour de force of the “Pusher” X-Files episode where talking to someone makes you do what they say. And “Beyond the Sea”, with an unrepentant psychopath murderer that our hero wants to talk to for some unknown reason. Pity we didn’t have an equally awesome scene with Sherlock threatening that if John dies, to throw the switch and gas her out of this life.

Instead we get a hug, and that miraculously cures her of wanting to kill John. Who then uses a rope to climb out after gnawing off his own foot to free it of the chains....or something. The chains are gone somehow, we’re not told how even though there isn’t really enough time with the water level for John to unlock them easily. (Sorry, I really had to bite my tongue during much of the episode or MST3K/Rifftrax would’ve come out. My internal monologue had me chuckling a time or two though.) I won’t even touch on Mr and Mrs Holmes being absolutely unrealistically written characters now after learning that so much family trauma happened. It’s a minor detail that most people (except those who have been unfortunate enough to be somewhat familiar with) would not understand and so pales compared to the other errors in the episode. It’s still annoying though. Again, quality acting from two great actors though.

There are good points to the episode, Mycroft’s guilty pleasure watching old film noir detective movies is funny and potentially telling. The sword/gun umbrella is pure fan service and absolutely awesome. There is plenty of Johnlock, Adlock, Mystrade, and Sherlolly sprinkled about for the various ships. Now I know a lot of people are upset by how those turned out, but given the production schedule Sherlock isn’t likely to make any of them cannon. So the best option shippers have is a bit of everything to provide the fandom with countless gifs, drawings, and fanfic stills. There are also some great quotes in here, and solid dialog exchanges. The end of the episode wrap up was nice, but emotional whiplash after the darkness of the show. It did show us what BBC Sherlock *can* be, and we can only hope they will return to form if we get a season 5. Realistically, the absolutely superb acting held up what was a convoluted mess of a plot, that unfortunately crossed the line from complicated interwoven aspects, to throwing stuff together and changing our minds halfway through about what is actually going on. Steven and Mark are capable of taking this plot and doing it well enough not to need a “viewer discretion” or making it into the convoluted mess it ended up being. It would be tough and some of the other seasons still would’ve had some pretty big plot holes, but they are talented enough to do it justice at least. Unfortunately they weren’t at their best this time around and it’s a bit of a tough one for the fandom after all these years of waiting. You guys are still brilliant, but please study before the final next time, okay?