#Andrew's codependency would be at a very different level

[coffinsister]

What's your opinion on Ashley and Andrew having babies? I don't think Ashley would want kids at first, or see them as just a way to keep Andrew happy, but I think Andrew would go into heat wanting to get Ashley pregnant as soon as he realized it'd irrevocably connect her to him even further and she'd have a constant reminder of who she belongs to

I think they have twins one girl one boy with pink green heterochromia and also I think we have very different outlooks on Andrew lol

I don't think Ashley would want kids in the sense that she has some sort of maternal instinct but I see Ashley as a pretty not calculating perse person but a person who tries to think a lot

At the end her impulsivity wins but she does try to think first

And I see her just constantly thinking about ways to ensure her own survival Andrew is the only social circle she has any access to without him she's done for, so she can either sacrifice never having any sex with anybody at all if Andrew doesn't want to be with her

(Which I totally believe she wants him to choose to be with her, it would be a tactical sacrifice not to)

But if he does want to, then the pregnancy is a really good way to ensure he stays with her.

A really good way to ensure either his love, or that he's guilty and "Bad" enough to not be able to leave her.

Andrew on the other hand, I don't think he would want the kids at all, and I don't think he would ever fully truly connect with them at all.

He loves her, so he will stand the kids, but he doesn't need any sort of proof, or irrevocable binding towards her, because Ashley is already choosing to stay with him at all times. Being there is what she wants.

Plus, he definitely wouldn't want the kids simply because they would be a liability on their freedom.

But he would think it's really hot to dom the hell out of his bratty little sister and put her in her place make sure she never thinks about getting pregnant from anybody else Not like Ashley ever thinks about that either way

[ghost-in-the-stalls]

Woke up this morning thinking about Andreil and codependence.

On one hand, it's fiction so whatever yknow? And also they're two individuals who were not looking for a romantic partner at all. Like they kind of just found each other while they were both in very bad places (like extreme and semi-unrealistic forms of trauma) and they were very important parts of each others healing processes. So naturally they feel stronger towards one another than any of us can imagine them feeling towards anyone else in that capacity.

On the other hand. No relationship can be healthy if both people are (or even one person is) in the headspace of "I will not be okay if this person leaves me. I will never find love again. It will be a whole in my life that will never quite be filled." And I feel very strongly about that. To the point where it is going to be addressed in the fic im writing.

So Andrew and Neil. I personally hc that they are both VERY codependent in their relationship throughout college, and then suddenly having to do long distance almost breaks them when Andrew goes pro. And they work through it! But it isnt easy. And in working through it, they both HAVE to address that codependence.

So let's start with Neil. Personally, it is very hard for me to imagine Neil ever having interest in someone else in a romantic capacity. I think its because I personally hc him as demiromantic in addition to being demisexual. Like the book kind of conflated the two together, but Neil still never mentioned having a crush or anything like that on anyone until the trust with Andrew came into play. I think he just doesn't really feel that way about people until after there's a great deal of trust built. So if he and Andrew weren't a thing, he wouldn't really ever have another relationship unless an Andrew-like person came along and gave him the same levels of support and care and trust. Which isn't super common because damn these two are perfect in that they give each other EXACTLY what they need.

But then Andrew. Let's say he and Neil stopped being together. And he healed enough to not spiral back into the "well it doesn't matter I'm not gonna live past 30 and I can only keep people near me through intense promises and deals". We know he has the physical attraction to others. But he is someone who would have very specific social and emotional needs. Partly due to trauma and partly due to just who he is as a person. So what was it about Neil that worked? A) He was interesting enough to break through Andrew's apathy, B) he was respectful of Andrew's boundaries to a very dedicated and no-nonsense degree, C) he showed that he actually really cared for Andrew and wasn't going to let himself be pushed away, and D) he and Andrew challenge each other to grow. I dont think its impossible for Andrew to ever find another person who meets those requirements. Just unlikely.

And the thing is too. This is all fine. I dont think either of them are romantic people. I dont think either of them really care about whether or not they're in a romantic relationship with someone. But there's a difference between that and "if we break up I'll never love again because there's no one else who can ever compare". And I think finding the healthy balance of "I want us to be together and continue to lean on one another, but if we aren't together im still a whole person and ill be okay".

Because the problem isn't necessarily whether or not they'd ever be able to find a proper romantic replacement for one another, it's more that they lean on one another so heavily that like... would they be okay without one another? Just in their lives? Would they manage to learn to be okay and recognize that they are individuals and that their lives don't need to be completely intertwined for them to survive and heal and be okay? I think that's something they both have to work on tbh

Anyway maybe this doesn't make a lot of sense but it's just something that's been on my mind.

[subtlehysteria]

Do you have any advice on writing a healthy romantic or platonic relationship? I want to make sure they’re not codependent and I found sources, but don’t know how to implement them.

Oh wow, first off thanks for the question! I can’t say that this applies to everyone when they write relationships between people but these are some of the things I’ve sort of cultivated and specialized in during my time as a writer so I hope they can help you as well.

The Two Most Important Things

When it comes to writing healthy relationships, whether they be romantic or platonic, two things are always very important: trust and communication.

Trust

If you’re writing a romance that’s developing you want to be able to show how the characters have earned each other’s trust. It can happen slowly, through small acts of kindness or it can be this big bang boom moment of “Oh my word, you’re doing this for me?” When a character starts to recognize another’s actions they also start asking themselves why. Why is this person so nice to me? Why are they so supportive? Why are they the first person I want to call or feel the most comfortable around? And when your character starts answering that very important why, that’s when the realization hits.

I love writing a character’s big “ah-ha” or “oh” moment when they realize just what their love interest means to them and all the little signs that have built up over the course of their relationship that has lead up to that moment of realization. It’s especially important for characters with troubled pasts. Maybe they’ve dated one too many abusive partners. Maybe they have abandonment issues because a parent ran out on them. Or maybe they’re simply scared of something more. Whatever the case, their “ah-ha” moment is very vital for the relationship arc as it becomes the first step of them accepting this person into their life. But! It can also be tied into their character development arc. For example, the person who always has their walls up finally lowers them for their romantic partner, and in doing so, starts letting others in too which allows for them to make more meaningful connections with others, both platonically and maybe even with estranged family members.

With platonic relationships or healthy sibling relationships, I try to show that whilst these individuals might be vastly different or not always agree on everything they are still there for their friend/sibling when they’re needed most. I don’t talk to my sister every day and don’t share all of her points of view on certain things, but if she were to phone me crying saying she needs me I would drop everything and go to her straight away because at the end of the day I care for her and I want her to be happy.

Things like teasing, bringing up inside jokes or embarrassing moments, soft touches and kisses, both romantic and platonic ones, are also small things to include in interactions that show closeness between two people. It obviously depends on your characters though. If one of your characters is touch-averse then their partner or friend/sibling making them their favourite hot drink or putting on their fav TV show for comfort can work just as well as cuddling on the couch and hugs.

Communication

With communication, your characters don’t need to spout all of their feelings all of the time. It’s more knowing the fact that when you are ready to talk about something that you can go to your partner/friend/sibling and know that they will listen. On the flip side, the partner/friend/sibling perhaps knows that the person struggles to talk about personal things/feelings and so creates a safe space for them to do so. Sometimes simply saying “I’m here if you want to talk,” is enough.

Helping someone find their words or reach the point where they can speak freely is something that needs a lot of trust and work, especially for new romantic partners or maybe siblings who have never been close growing up. That moment where you can finally talk about something that’s been weighing you down or simply been bubbling up inside you but you never knew how to say it until now, with this specific person, is a result of hard-earned trust.

The “Something Special”

What’s also really nice is creating something special between the two people. By that I mean perhaps a couple having a special place they only know about and visit when they want to get away from the hustle and bustle of life, or perhaps a ritual like siblings having sleepovers or spa days when one or both are having a tough day. Maybe it’s getting frozen yoghurt and sitting outside no matter the weather to people watch. Maybe it’s making up stories about strangers on public transport. Maybe it’s feeding ducks in the park or screaming your lungs out at an abandoned beach. Whatever the activity, it’s theirs and that’s what’s most important.

Co-Dependency

Being co-dependent is mostly seen as being unhealthy and with good reason. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t use it as a plot device to help a character develop. Perhaps a plot B arc can be two siblings realizing they need to learn to stand on their own rather than being so dependant on one another. Or maybe a couple who loves each other realises that they can’t move forward as better people until they confront their co-dependency. Sometimes co-dependency can be “good” (and I’m using inverted commas for a reason).

For instance, two characters, whether they be romantically or platonically connected, can support each other like no others can because they’ve experienced similar trauma - maybe they both went to war, maybe they both lost someone important to them through a horrible accident. Whatever the case, sometimes it’s only someone who has experienced what you have experienced that can provide the comfort and help you need. It might not always be seen as healthy by outsiders but for those two characters it just makes sense and it works.

A good example of this is Neil Josten and Andrew Minyard from the All For The Game book series. They’ve both experienced severe trauma in their lives, Andrew being a rape victim and Neil having grown up on the run with an abusive mother. From an outsider’s perspective, their relationship can be seen as co-dependant and maybe even unhealthy but for them it works because they understand each other on a level no one else ever can. They know how to accommodate for one another’s trauma through, you guessed it, hard-earned trust and communication.

This obviously isn’t always the case and taking on a plot arc like that can be tricky and is something that needs to be done with care and a lot of research. But when it’s done right, wow can the results be astounding and profound.

So, I hope this helps and has given you few ideas about writing healthy relationships. Thank you for the lovely ask!

[nastassia1031]

Thoughts on 15x20 after a few days

It’s been a few days now since the finale aired, and I’ve had time to really digest it and think about it. After all this time I can definitively say that I hated it.

On my first watch, I was so caught up in the fact that it was the last episode that the actual content of the episode was somewhat lost under nostalgia. Now that I’ve had time to really digest the episode, I can honestly say that as far as I’m concerned, the show ended at 15x19. And I thought 15x19 was a weak episode.

The main reasons I disliked the episode have very little to do with Destiel, though we are definitely going to discuss that.My biggest complaint is the fact that we undid 15 years of character development for Dean with this episode to regress Dean back to his season one self. Dean spent the entire series learning self-worth beyond his status as a hunter and in forty minutes it was all erased. Dean never got a childhood because his entire existence was protecting his brother. His entire adulthood was spent being caught between a toxic level of codependency with his Sam and a stranglehold of self-loathing. All of his anger issues that boiled over so intensely this season were due to getting the fears he’s had his entire life confirmed, that he was just a blunt instrument in someone else’s plan, that he’d die violently because why else did he exist if not for that.

That could have made him cruel, but everything Cas said about him in 15x18 was true. Everything he did was always for love, even when he hated himself. And Dean was getting better. Telling Chuck he wasn’t a killer showed he was finally beginning to internalize everything Cas said to him. He was starting to get past his self-doubt and trauma. He was applying for normal people jobs (in the first montage there’s a clear shot of a job application sitting on Dean’s desk). He got a dog. Dean Winchester had just found a reason to live, after an entire lifetime of putting himself dead last and throwing himself on every grenade that presented itself. Killing him before he got the chance to enjoy the life he fought so hard for is unforgivable.

The song says there’s supposed to be peace at the end. When you’re done.

Dean wasn’t done.

That’s the biggest reason why I hated the episode, but it’s far from the only reason.

Dean’s entire complex character was reduced to beer car pie. Dean’s speech was beautiful, but it also reduced the brothers right back to their first season selves - codependent far beyond what is remotely healthy.

“Family don’t end with blood” sure got thrown in the garbage. Dean dies and not only is Dean’s hunter funeral empty except for Sam and the dog, but the montage of Sam’s life has him looking utterly miserable. Using a montage was also just lazy storytelling, and only served to make Sam seem more isolated.

Jack snapped everyone back, so what was the reason why we couldn’t have had Sam on the phone with Jody reminiscing about Dean? How about Sam just talking to his brother? There’s not a person alive who doesn’t talk to their dead loved ones. Instead, we get glimpses of a Sam who looks and behaves like a shell of a person, who seems to have abandoned the entire family structure this show spent 15 years building.

Eileen’s utter absence. Why even bother bringing her back if she wasn’t intended to be Sam’s endgame? The COVID excuse doesn’t remotely hold up, because it would have been beyond easy to establish her as Sam’s wife instead of Generic Blurry Woman. That montage of family photos? Photoshop Eileen in a couple. Problem solved.

And then we get to Cas. The fact that Dean was never allowed to respond to Castiel’s declaration is utter bullshit. We’ve seen the way Dean has behaved in the past when Castiel has died. He carried the trench coat in the trunk of his car like a war widow with a flag. He saw Cas everywhere and literally rewrote the narrative in his mind to make it his own fault that Cas was stuck in Purgatory. He was actively suicidal to the point that Billie called him out on it after Lucifer killed him.

For all that I found 15x19 to be a weak episode, we at least got a few instances of illustrating Dean’s grief - Dean drinking until he literally passed out on the floor, his sprint up the stairs when he got the fake call from Cas. But denying Dean the chance to actually pray to him when we have an established history of Dean doing JUST THAT? Not okay.

This episode also ignores the entire narrative structure of the season. Becky is the stand in for the fans, and when we have her reading Chuck’s original ending, she brings up a lot of the complaints the fans have - too sad, no Cas, a generic monster of the week case. All the way up to episode 18, a significant portion of the season was focused on Dean and Cas’ emotional arc. We have their breakup in 15x03, outside characters commenting on the strain between the two of them such as Rowena in 15x8 to Dean’s prayer and their subsequent reunion in 15x09.

To have that much lead-up culminating with Cas’ confession in 15x18, (an episode that was originally titled “The Truth” but then changed to “Despair”) with absolutely no chance for Dean to respond? That’s bad writing. That’s bad storytelling, and it’s wholly unfair to Dean’s character that we got a series of bad montages that cheapened Den’s entire character arc.

Reducing the third lead of the show to a throwaway line that Dean isn’t even given a vocal response to is a slap in the face to Misha Collins and all the work he did as one of the most beloved characters on the show.

I could write an entire dissertation about how Supernatural has a long history of queerbaiting, and Dean’s character has been coded as bisexual and his relationship with Cas hits nearly every narrative beat and trope of a romantic relationship. I could also go into accounts from PAs and other members of the show that have very different accounts of what was filmed for 15x18 and 15x20 than what we actually saw, as well as accounts from the cast of script changes that go way beyond COVID required changes.

But the simple truth is, Supernatural could have done something with the finale that could have been incredible. Instead, we got a disjointed, badly paced mess that is frankly an insult to all three of the leads and a slap in the face to the fandom that kept them on the air for 15 years. Jensen’s absolute silence regarding the finale on social media speaks VOLUMES about what his opinion of it is.

Is this going to change my love for the show? No. There are 326 episodes that aren’t garbage. And give the fans a couple weeks and someone will recut the finale into something passable.

This show means too much to me to allow Andrew Dabb’s shitty writing in one episode and the CW’s bullshit to destroy. Fandom can fix almost anything, and I’m far from being alone in my opinion on the finale.

Sam Winchester deserved better.

Castiel deserved better.

Dean Winchester deserved better.

And most of all, the fans deserved better.

Carry on.

[welcometotheocverse]

💞 Elliot & Henry?

MY BOYS <3

Elliot

1) Elliot and Lorelai: They’re just so soft together and I love the idea of Lorelai being given this neurodivergent child and trying her best to do right by him. She listen to info dump even when she starts only being able to catch one word in 20 and tries to keep up with his interests in different sciences  El just thinks the world of her. And in the earlier seasons they’re just so fluffy ;A;

2) Elliot and Rory: ND Codependent twins ;A;. El and Rory are each other’s best friend and cornerstone. Literally the only time ( s) he’s ever gone against his mother is for her. ( specifically when Lorelai marries Christopher and is calling Rory Incessantly he like literally physically takes the phone away from her because “Let Her Have Space” and is very defensive of Rory’s boundaries) 

The thing that gets me about them is they both think they’re the Looking Out/Protecting Twin like Rory is very protective of El and will raise hell if someone hurts him or acts mean towards him and people think “oh its her being the older twin” but Elliot is just as protective or Rory and her happiness like to the point he doesn’t say anything about his feelings regarding Christopher ( not for a while at least) because he wants to see her happy. They also both read together and infodump a lot together even though they have different interests and listen I’m love them a many.

They also both think the other one’s the nicer twin which everyone thinks is hilarious because “you both have bambi face”

3) Elliot and Lane: They’re a brotp that snuck up on me bc at first I was like “oh she’s more Rory’s friend” but then the more I thought about it the more I’m like “no..no it’s The Three Of Them” and also “okay so not only would El fight Ms Kim in Doose’s parking lot for Lane he also almost got in a playground fight for her”

 Lane is Rory and Elliot’s first ( and possibly only?? Did Rory even Talk to anyone else in SHH in canon??) friend and while there are things she and Rory share that El doesn’t she’s also the one El goes to when he’s frustrated about Christopher or his grandparents ( because no one understand Overbearing and Controlling like Lane) and it’s almost like...the stuff he can’t tell Rory ( being frustrated with his father, feeling like he’s alone being frustrated by his father because Rory all but gets stars in her eyes no matter how many times Christopher lets her down and he loves her okay he loves that’s she’s so willing to hold out and forgive and be patient because she’s Rory  and he would never ask her to be anything or anyone else but he’s...not)

And the thing is Lane gets it. Lane talks about how she has to keep her cds under planks, she can’t tell her mother about  the things that make her happy. She can’t share her feelings with her mother. Her mother doesn’t know her, not really. And she keeps things to herself to keep the  peace and because she loves her mother so so much and she wants to please her so badly. ( and that Elliot gets, keeping things to yourself and swallowing your words because you hate the idea of upsetting someone you love so much even if Rory and Lorelai wouldn’t react badly if he did express himself he just...cares a lot about not upsetting them.)  

They just commiserate a lot together and understand each other on a very basic level. They don’t hang out as much specially after the Yale years pick up but they’re the very definition of “I could not hang out with you for months and then pick up like nothing happened)

Also they’re the founding members of the Protect Rory Squad.

4) Elliot and Luke: Elliot and Luke vibe really easily because they’re both introverted. They can literally just sit together in silence and be okay with that. Also Luke scares people so when Elliot becomes overwhelmed or doesn’t want to deal with socializing ( or answering nosy questions like he knows they mean well but they’re....a lot sometimes) he’s known to hang out there and do homework or read or just do whatever he knows he’s always welcomed there. It’s his favorite place aside from Andrew’s bookstore. Also Luke’s known him since he was a babie. 

At least once someone’s mentioned that Rory takes after Lore but El obviously takes after “his father” more temperament wise when the four are out ( in the season Luke and Lorelai are dating) and Elliot absolutely beams

5) Elliot and Finn&Colin: Literally the top dynamic  and the only one for a while ( like the first image i had of El in my mind was him meeting them i had no plot pre yale I had to work backwards lol) Finn and Colin are the first friends he makes that...hang out with him outside of Rory? Like yeah he has Lane but she still doesn’t see him as much ( as they got older Lane and Rory would do “girl talk or talk about boys and El would kinda..hang back also Ms. Kim doesn’t let him in the house as much because he’s a boy) specially after Yale since they’re far away and “wow the whole Adults Can’t See Their Friends For Weeks thing really bites huh” 

They’re also the first lgbtqa people he meets ( in his canon at least) and it sorta...finally makes him feel less isolated ( something he always felt in Stars Hollow no matter how much he loved his town) Colin and Finn on the flip side basically take one look at him( and recognize that he is isolated and lonely and has never met someone like him before)  and go “we’re adopting you” ( and  like that’s important too, they  approached him not him-and-Rory) and really take him under his wing and Elliot’s very “???” but he also clings to them but fast and they become inseparable like Elliot ends up just walking to  their place whenever  he’s upset or needs company or both ( he goes to their place after the football game at Yale) even as all the drama with Rogan is happening and I’m just really soft for them.

Henry

1) Henry and Jess: Jess doesn’t think he’s a good older brother. Henry heavily disagrees. These two are the only ones who know what living with Liz was like and while people in Stars Hollow are nice Henry really  only trusts his brother. Jess is also they one who’s able to read him best and vice versa and Jess is angry in a very “fuck you all” way and Henry’s mostly scared but  they both will speak up for each other ( Jess will ignore Luke and pop off about “stop tryin to help me” but will also approach Luke because “listen can you save the dramatic rants for when he’s not there? Yelling scares him.” and “you need to Tell him he can grab the food you buy or he won’t know” and really that shows a lot when  you think about Jess’ relationship with communication in season 2 on the flip side Henry often serves as a “Jess translator” and they’re just both very in each other’s corner its ;A;)

2) Henry and Rory: Henry  and Rory bond instantly and I’m v sappy about it like Rory’s never had anything like a younger sibling and she becomes the only person he’ll be around without Jess ( either its her and Luke or Luke then her I’m not sure yet)  for a while and after the whole “Send him back” situation she just up and appoints herself as his older sibling and makes sure he knows that.

3) Henry and Luke: Luke legit can’t say no to him or be mad at him and the fact that he acts as “a Jess translator” means he  sorta tells him a lot about how they grew up and Luke straight up goes “I can’t send  them back these are my kids now.” Luke’s also a lot softer with him because of him being younger and not as angry as Jess and Henry’s a lot more open to having a parent than Jess is and they’re just very soft. Luke helps Henry feel safe and Henry helps Luke learn he can be a dad.

4) Henry and Lulu: Lulu had training (due to her being a teacher ) to spot children with signs of bad homes so she takes one look at Henry and goes “yup” and pays extra attention to Henry which Henry winds up loving her for. She also basically strong arms Luke in accepting her help in re to teaching him about kids because “He’s my student and he needs your help. And to help him you need my help” and is a main factor in Luke and Jess communicating better ( because Jess might not be her student but he’s still a troubled kid) since there’s only so much Henry can do when he’s still scared Luke means it when he rants. ( Henry loves her for this also since it leads to Jess and Luke yelling less at each other) She just becomes a very good presence in his life.

5) Henry and April: Listen Henry  and April are actually close in age ( he’s 8 in season 2 which makes him around 12-13 in season 6 and ever since I realized this I haven’t stopped thinking about how much chaotic sibling energy the two can have and how Henry would just be “Luke’s really good at being a dad right?” and also talk about fantasy books together and just be cute cousins.

send me 💞 + an oc and ill tell you my top five favorite dynamics of theirs!