#Anti Shigaraki

[violetlunette]

Things you hate about Hori's writing?

Before we begin, I want to state that I don’t think Hori is a bad writer. I think he has strengths and weaknesses like all writers. I also know that Hori is under a lot of pressure from fans, his editor, publishers, and whoever else is involved with making a manga. I’m also aware that writing a manga is different than book writing, which is what I’m trying to study, so I may not understand a few things. Plus, Hori is under a time crunch which may affect his writing.

That being said, I was asked what I don’t like about his writing, so;

Notes:

*BNHA Critical

*Anti-Shigaraki (mainly how he's written and handled storywise.)

*Take it with a grain of salt

*Keep in mind that these will be writing elements only, not how I feel about characters.

Also, keep in mind that BNHA is a LONG series, so please be polite in your corrections if you feel there's a mistake. Also, the post is a bit rambly, so if you would like me to clarify something I said, let me know.

1: Lack of Build up.

*Now, not everything needs to be built up in a story, however, if it plays an important role, story or character-wise, then it has to.

This especially failed with Midnight, which pissed me off because Hori showed he could do death a scene right with Twice! Twice was built up as a person, we saw his connections with people, we saw him fighting for what he believed in, and we saw him die. We got none of that with Midnight. To anyone who only read the main manga, did you know she was high school friends with Aizawa and Hizashi and that she took in a kitten they found? And that SHE was the one who pushed Aizawa into his teaching job? No, you didn’t. Because Hori failed to tell us that. Also, Hori failed to build Midnight up as a person, show us what she loved, skipped her death scene, and yet expects to get the same emotional payoff as Twice.

2: Not allowing us to learn more about Class 1-A and seeing their internal struggles.

*I hate the LoV but I understand why others may connect with them. One of the reasons is that we get to see their inner thoughts and feeling and learn about their past and why they’re the way they are. With Class 1-A we don’t know over half the class. What do I mean by that? 

Why are they heroes? Tenya wants to be like his brother, Izuku wants to be like All Might, and Ochako wants money for her family and just likes helping people. But what about Toru? Why does she want to be a hero? How did she get in? And so on. What are the students' morals? They believe in protecting people, but what else? Are they chaotic? Lawful? Neutral? What? And what are their struggles? Etc.

Why is all of this important, and why is it a writing failure? Because we need this stuff to care about the characters. This is especially important in the climax where we’re supposed to be rooting for the heroes, but instead, most aren’t. Why? Because we never got to get to know them.

3: Important information is in side materials

*Most of the development of Class 1-A is in Team Up Missions and school briefs where the canon is questionable as they’re written by different authors. But the worst offense is having Aizawa’s backstory in BNHA:V. Why? Because the payoff for that backstory is in the main series. Aizawa’s backstory has no emotional weight and feels out of place in BNHA:V. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t have been the main story. It could have been slipped in while Aizawa and Hizashi are driving to see Kurogiri. This is especially important as it tells the audience of the main series who Oboro is and why he’s important. As of now, without reading the other series, he’s just a few images where he barely talks.

For it is a huge writing failure on the writer's part if I have to buy DLC or go to side materials to get the complete story as those are supposed to add, not fill in plot holes and such.

4: Everything is being shoved into the final climax

*In the climax where everything is supposed to come to a head, we are dealing with the backstories of several characters, plot points that barely showed up, several "twists" and more, making the fight longer than a DBZ battle. Not only does this stretch things out to the point of boredom where everyone is just like, "get on with it!" but it also fails to give us and the story time to build on these points, most of which are important. To be fair, I don't think this is Hori's fault, as he's being pushed to wrap things up if the rumors are correct.

5: Shiggy barely does anything

*Shiggy is the main villain of the series. He’s on the posters, the covers, in the theme song, etc. 

Yet he doesn’t do a thing to push the plot and Izuku’s arc till the end. And even then, AFO’s does most of the work. No, really; after the USJ arc and before the hospital arc, how does Shiggy influence the plot?

He released two Nomus after meeting Stain. Okay. What role does that play in the plot or on Izuku? None. You can take that out and it wouldn’t change the story except for a scene or two. Shiggy “talks” with Izuku at the mall? What’s the effect there? Well, it has them change the campsite but again, that changes nothing as far as the story goes, nor does it push the plot. And Izuku? Again, no change. Shiggy orders Izuku’s death? See above. The scene with Bakagou? Put anyone there, and it would have been the same. And as soon as the heroes show up, it becomes about AFO.

And once AFO is arrested? Overhaul becomes the villain and—correct me if I’m wrong—the other league members play a bigger role than him. And none of his actions affect the plot that much. Like, do the member of the league do anything that Overhaul’s minions couldn’t do? And again, the effect on Izuku, the protagonist; zero.

It isn’t until Giran is captured that Shiggy does something to push the plot forward and that’s defeating Re-Destructo and having the MLA join him. After that? He goes to sleep so he can get a makeover! (Which, to be fair, paid off as his hair becomes nice and fluffy, but still.)

It’s not until the hospital raid that Shiggy not only moves the plot forward AND affects Izuku. And then, almost immediately, AFO takes over. Even in the current arc, I’m not sure if it’s Shiggy fighting or AFO. The most he did was in the USJ arc, and even then, it was the NOMU that affected the characters and plot. True, Shiggy nearly kills Tsuyu and figures out Aizawa's trick, but he's not the one who leaves the damage on Aizawa that persist throughout the series or lessens All Might's time. It's the Nomu. He crushes Aizawa's face and the rest of his body, then stands enough of a threat against All Might that he has to push past his limit. And both these actions affect the plot of the story. None of Shiggy's actions do.

In Inuyasha we barely saw Naraku, however, you can’t take him out of the story and replace him with someone else. Why? Because the story wouldn’t have happened without Naraku being Naraku. Without him, Kikyo wouldn’t have died nor would the drama between her and Inuyasha. (Not to mention the drama with the rest of the party.) The point is that if Naraku vanished from Inuyasha the whole story would fall apart.

That’s not the case with Shiggy. Anyone could have led the attack on USJ and had the same effect on the story and the characters. Anyone could have been possessed by AFO and triggered Izuku’s need to save them. Anyone could be Nana’s grandson and the effect would be the same. And, as Shiggy is the poster villain for MHA, this is the greatest writing failure of MHA. Why? Because a villain's role is to push the plot and the hero's arc forward.

Hell, Overhaul is only around for one arc, and he affects the story more than Shiggy; 

Overhaul's actions caused Izuku to force himself to grow to help Eri, then showed Izuku that defeating a villain isn't enough to save someone as Eri was still traumatized. Mirio lost his quirk, prompting a sense of guilt in Izuku but determination in Eri so she could help him. The bullets Overhaul made come back and cripple Aizawa to the point he has to depend on others. Night eye is killed by him and dies in Ochako's arms, forcing her to rethink her career and install an intense need to save others so no one dies on her watch again. And so on. 

And as for AFO, just like Naraku, the story wouldn't exist without him. Without him, there would be no OFA, All Might's backstory wouldn't have happened, all the nomu plots wouldn't exist, and Shiggy would have nothing. Everything Shiggy has isn't through his own strength but through AFO.

The point is that AFO and Overhaul cannot be removed or replaced by another to make the story function. Shiggy can, and to me, that is a huge failure.

Special mentions; (these are more opinion based)

1: Wasted concepts

*Hori has a bunch of good ideas but due to time constraints or overwhelming himself, Hori rarely follows through or explores the full potential.

The biggest example is the Nomus. I stated this in another post but I’ll copy it here;

“The Nomus are the ones that carry the threat and the emotional impact for the main cast. Kurogiri connects to Aizawa and shows that AFO has not only been stealing corpses but has been eyeing UA students especially, which connects to UA. And the Bat Nomu is a personal connection to Izuku and Bakagou, who are both major players. And we know Dabi’s connection to the plot.”

Because the Nomus are mostly made of dead people, this could have a huge impact on the cast. Forget about Shiggy, if AFO really wanted to get back at All Might he should have used Nana’s corpse in some way. That would have shaken him up and hurt him and the audience more than some kid All Might met once. Plus, the nomus aren’t just dead people, they’re living people that were experimented on. Think of how that raises the stakes for the heroes as they’re not just fighting villains, they’re fighting innocent people who were kidnapped and brainwashed. And every time a hero dies they can end up as one of those monsters. Again, the emotional stakes are raised.

This is especially important for Izuku. Even if the bat nomu disappeared after one arc he would still have made an impact on the story if he had faced Izuku and been revealed who he was. Why? Because he was someone Izuku knew. A bully, yes, but still someone Izuku knew. And AFO turned him into a monster. This gives Izuku a personal reason to fight and train harder while introducing him to the kind of person AFO was. Whether Bat Nomu died or was captured, there’s a personal stake for Izuku.

I could go on, but this post is already gonna be long. The gist is that we got the bare minimum with them and it’s a shame.

But it’s not just the Nomus, there’s also Stain. They introduced a cool villain with a decent concept and half a leg to stand on, but they lock him up right away and don’t bother with him again for over two hundred chapters. And even then he does ONE thing, then vanishes.

There are also a ton of wasted characters like over half the class of 1-A, The UA teachers, the quirkless, the MLA, and Sir Night Eye.

Now to balance this, here’s what I like about Hori’s writing;

1: Decent Concepts *While he doesn’t always explore them very well, Hori does put out fun concepts that fanfic writers myself have fun with.

2: The creative use of Quirks *When Hori shows us the quirks he’s very creative in their uses which is cool to see. And there’s a lot of science and research behind them that I’m discovering.

3: The Characters *Love ‘em or hate ‘em, Hori creates a lot of interesting characters, a majority that people want to learn about. (Shame we don’t but I digress.) (Plus most of the designs are creative.)

4: All Might’s character and arc *Nearly everything about All Might is perfect from a story perspective. Almost everything about how All Might is written is done absolutely well.

5: The setup *The stage Hori set up is very interesting and I like it. I like the premise, the setting, the characters, and more.

6: The Art *I like most of Hori’s designs as they’re nice-looking and creative. Most of the costumes are fun as well. (I love Ochako's hero costume! As well as Stars and Stripes'.)

7: Subtle scenes *This is mainly shown in the beginning, but many small scenes carry many character and story elements without it being overly obvious. But I talked about them in my chapter reviews, so I won't repeat myself.

And that's it! Feel free to share what you like or dislike about Hori's writing elements.

[ainomorimichi]

this is the hot take corner, but to be honest the league of villains are TERRIBLE main antagonists and the plf is the worst villain group in the show.

[shuichi-iguchi]

I'm not saying every Spinner that exists has Shigaraki as the root of their adulthood trauma buttttt /j

[itsnothingofinterest]

You know it’d be funny if it weren’t so sad how many times the villains are the ones to attempt to open some form of dialogue.

Only for the heroes to respond “No. You hurt people. Shut up.” Or perhaps worse; “I just don’t care.”

And then wonder why they keep resorting to violence when there must be better ways available. Surely they, the heroes, take no part in fostering their belief otherwise.

I wonder if this will come back to bite them? Like eventually some of the hero kids are gonna directly ask the League to trust them to act as the next generation of heroes and guardians of society; only for the League respond:

What, you? Mr. “Come home to your abuser”? Mr. “Just be a good role model for the next generation to solve discrimination”? No, its not gonna work that way Ms. “Consequences for your actions”. Because you’ll just say “but what about this or that or these guys who’d be inconvenienced” instead without doing anything. So no, we don’t trust you.

Because really, this stuff does genuinely make them hard to trust right now, especially when it keeps happening. And I want them to grow past that; but I also think it’d be neat if they ran into trouble for having these views at all and had to really prove they grew past them.

[sapphic-agent]

Me when I'm in a getting screwed over by Horikoshi contest and my opponent is any of these characters:

Or, you know, anyone else who isn't Bakugou

[ilovereadingandstuff]

419 Reaction

Those are his real names?!!? OMG!!!! LOVE THEM!!!

You mean make him moan??? Make him drunk to later fuck him? Amplify his hole for you to fill? Fatherfucker bastard. I gonna keep this meme futher into the future, so deal with it.

Isn't he Chisaki?? I may be wrong, but I think that was a pannel from Overhaul arc when explaining Kai's childhood.

Who is saying those lines??? I don't understand. That's AFO talking?

I hope you keep failing.

Wait... Everything's gone? He just got a new body without soul?? Wtf??

Haha, he planificates this day for so long... But he had to kill them both.

Also, did Yoichi just died a second time??? Along with Kudo and the other vestiges too??? OMG, stoooop, they have suffered enough.

"Empty" and "point less" world domination. You're an asshole.

That something so harsh to say to Izuku who is currently quirkless and limbless.... Bakubabe, where are you?? Your man needs you.

[marunalu]

She SERIOUSLY still believes that bakugou is inside ofa, that he and izuku will proclaim their love for each other in the vestige world and beat tomura together as a romantic couple, completly ignoring the fact that its not izukus wish to beat tomura in the first place but to STOP and SAFE him, that bakugou already was given the "honour" to kill the actual main villain (which was utter bullshit!) and so its izukus moment to shine now, that while izuku is losing the ofa vestiges he is literally gaining the afo quirk in the same moment (holes in his hands), because he is fucking afos son and he doesnt even NEED fucking bakugous help in the vestige world and that this is about IZUKU and TOMURA!!!

She even confirmed she knows nothing about tomura to even memorize anything about his character and calls the vestiges, people who care for izuku and always tried to help him "creepy old people", despite that SHE is the one shipping an ABUSER with his victim and having fantasies about two minor teenage boys fucking each other! Why you wonder? Because she already said in the past she doesnt read the chapters bakugou is not in and only reads the spoilers. HOW can people be so blinded by a ship and actually FOLLOW someone like her on xitter, believing the bullshit she is spreading! She will have a VERY BAD awakening very soon and I cant wait for her shitstorm as soon as the manga is finished and that whole bkdk nonsense can finally be put to rest. And you can bet she will blame hori for trolling bkdk shippers instead of just accepting the fact that she COMPLETLY misunderstands izukus and bakugous relationship by not really properly reading the manga in the first place (only chapters with bakugou in it!)

If I were a bkdk shipper I would feel so much second hand embarrassment reading her posts! Huge respect to all the sane bkdk shippers who actually call her out on her delusions!

[broccoliboix5peepeeman]

So, that new chapter, huh?

[punkeropercyjackson]

I love when Hawks riders call LOV stans stupid or accuse us of having double standards when we're okay with the LOV killing people but not Hox killing Jin.Babygirl a bunch of disabled people,one of who is a teenage girl,having excellent points against the in-universe society they live in but also being made into serial killers to 'prove they're actually wrong in the end' are infinitely better and more worth rewriting characters than an ugly blonde guy who grew up being fed lies about minorities and when presented with the reality that we're actually good people choose to kill one of us for being 'too dangerous' yet is friends with a domestic and child abuser celebrity who believes in eugenics because he looked up to him as a kid and thinks he can change based soley off that.I'm not a 'Dabi apologist',i'm immune to most propaganda

[mikeellee]

You know, returning from my work last night made me think how Shigaraki is stupid. Not in the incel/gross way the "stans" like to show in their works(you do you, guys. No hate) but he is canonically stupid bc ...he never get his butt off the couch to do smth.

Think this way: if you rave about destruction and you have decay as a power...what else do you need?

Shig never stop to think for 5 mins on what to do. And what irks me is how Shig is smart...he can be smart...but if he really think for 5 mins it changes the plot.

"Lets kidnap/recruit Bk" if Shig thoight for 5 mins...doubt this would happen.

Also Shig gets things on his lap without earning.

LoV? Was given to him.

The recruits? Giran found for him.

The army? Given to him

(None which ever happen to Izu, but at the same time Shig isnt having a grand time)

Its like Shig cant be smart. Am cant be smart and Izu cant be angry with heroes...bc if they did...the story would change and bk wouldn't be the center of the universe.

[moodyvoid]

Bnha can’t end until we get a panel of Rei and all the kids in a circle kicking the shit out of endeavor. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[violetlunette]

(Ripped off Inspired by this)

[ainomorimichi]

you say that the lov are the worst group of villains and then actively support the mla? smh, yoy have no perspective. they're clearly all awful.

- ducky

i still don’t like the lov and ducky is WRONG >:(

[doodlegirl1998]

Quick question: What are your thoughts on Nana advocating for Tomura’s death?

Ngl, she’s kinda right, there is no going back for Tomura, he doesn’t want redemption or anything.

He just craves destruction and who’s to say that he’ll stop? He’s more powerful than ever and refuses to listen to anyone.

(Also Tomura getting redemption would demolish his character-)

Hi @palesweetscherryblossom 👋

What happened to Shigaraki is tragic but Nana is right to advocate for Tomura's death as he is in canon.

Tomura has a dangerous quirk and is a remorseless villain who is shown to be a threat to Japan as a whole.

Furthermore, Shig doesn't have a coherent characterisation anymore. All Shigaraki is advocating for now is "destroy all" on repeat.

How can you reason with someone like that?

It feels both insulting and forced to have to bring 'little Tenko' into the story to redeem Shig.

Because it does not make sense and Shigaraki is not 'Little Tenko' anymore.

He's shown to not want to listen to anyone who opposes him or wants to save him.

Despite opportunities being there to stop and think about what he is doing, Shigaraki does not even though he is canonically "unhappy."

In fact, despite his apparent 'unhappiness' he has doubled down on his wish to kill all life on Japan.

Who is to say he will stop there unless he is permanently stopped?

TLDR - I like Shig and would have liked to have him written better so a redemption feels more natural.

However, as Shig is in canon right now, he is beyond redemption. Everything to do with "Little Tenko" proves that Hori feels this way as well, Nana is not wrong to suggest prioritising the lives of the rest of Japan over Shigaraki's.

[itsnothingofinterest]

I actually find it funny when people will say the heroes need to kill more villains instead of arresting them when, from where I'm looking, every instance of the heroes killing a villain(s) has led to some consequence that would've been avoided had they just been taken in alive. (Which evidence has often shown them quite capable of doing.)

Lady Nagant was made to kill loads of people, driving her crazy and leading her to kill her boss and deprive the hero side of one of it's best. Her case feels like a big reason why killing on the regular would be incompatible with the rest of the hero shtick; 'cause it turns out people with lots of blood on their hands have trouble using them to then shake the hands of children.

People say All Might should've killed AFO; but you can tell both from All Might's dialogue in Kamino & from how AFO regrew his head that that's exactly how their first fight ~7 years ago ended. AFO's brains met the pavement that day. And I can only assume this allowed his body to be easily recovered & revived, letting him lay low for the next 6 years to mould Tomura into a successor and orchestrate a good portion of the conflicts we've seen in this series. Just saying, that sounds much harder to do from Tartarus. And at least the heroes knew when he broke out of jail way faster then when he broke out of the grip of death. Heck, it could easily be argued he only broke out of jail thanks to that 6 years of set-up.

Oh and where to start with Hawks killing Twice? Maybe how it enraged Toga & Dabi to make them more crazy & dangerous, maybe how it affected people's trust in heroes? Oh but the big one has to be how leaving Twice as a corpse let his blood be collected for Toga to get a parade off anyway; one the heroes were unprepared for too, which distracted a lot of the pros meant to keep AFO in Gunga. All of which could've been avoided if Hawks had just taken Twice in alive. (Which I must reiterate he easily could have done; I mean his quirk was shown pretty easily countering a Parade.) The heroes wouldn't have had to deal with a Parade in this war at all if Twice was sitting pretty in a jail cell next to Compress & Geten.

I can't help but think those last two cases could be a surprisingly common occurrence too if heroes killed as much as some readers say they should. Like, could you imagine if every dangerous villain in Japan's history was killed and then just dumped somewhere for a guy like Dr. Garaki to get his hands on them the same way he got Shirakumo?

So anyway, between the mental health issues it causes, combined with how villains keep finding ways to perform necromancy; I'm just not seeing a lot of evidence that things go well for the heroes when they kill villains, or that they'd go much better if the heroes were kill-happy soldiers of the war on villainy all the time.

[sapphic-agent]

Me at Horikoshi right now. What a horrible time to be a fan of Izuku, Tomura, Nana, and basically everyone that isn't Bakugou