#BUT i have my favourite duos. you know. the Apollo gang.

[nysus-temple]

What about Hermes and Dionysus? 👀

DEPENDS if you're asking about sources OR my ideas. Because i can talk for HOURS about both of those. Hermes and Dionysus are just soooo......... They mean so much to me it's stupid at this point.

I'll stick with the sources for now and summarize them the best i can, and then some ideas that i hope i can summarize too; so i talk about both since you didn't specify and i would hate to leave you without an exact answer nskdnfk

Out of all the gods, when Dionysus arrives to Olympus (post-reincarnation), it's Hermes the one who is trusted the most to take care of him. He saved him from Hera's wrath a couple of times. Like Apollonius of Rhodes mentions in the Argonautica, he saved him from FIRE. FROM FLAMES.

Our good Nonnus of Panopolis also talks about this episode ! Saying Hermes traveled around with him for a while, and during that time he also asked several groups of nymphs to educate him. He even played and spend time with him alone, i think we all know this sculpture of Praxiteles, one of the few Greek originals that have survived to this day:

AND when Dionysus was a young man, not an infant anymore, Hermes left him with Rhea, who educated him in relation with his powers, like for example, being incapable of getting drunk.

Not only that, but there's also the fact that we all know, of Hermes being the psychopomp of Hades. I've always liked to imagine it's him, by Zeus' order, who took Dionysus to Olympus when he was Zagreus, after Persephone gave birth to him. Since in the Orphic Hymns, Persephone takes care of him AFTER he's reincarnated, not when she gives birth to him.

Nonnus of Panopolis also specifies in the end of his Dionysiaca that Dionysus sits next to Hermes at Olympus <3

Remember the Minyades shenanigans Dionysus had? Out of ALL the gods, it was Hermes who took pity on them, it was Hermes who was with him-

I think it's really funny that, like, Hermes was there when Ariadne and Dionysus had children, like, look:

What is he doing there lmao. "Hey do you two need a second dad-"

AND NOW, BEHOLD, MY STUFF ! Some random concepts and ideas i had of them, go down if you wanna read them or skip if you were here for the sources only.

i've always felt that Hermes has a hard time showing Dionysus how he feels about him. Why? Because he's really good with words, but not gestures; and Dionysus only finds appreciation though gestures, not words. That's due to his way of thinking that everyone is always liying to him, how no one told him about Persephone and Semele, about Gaia's feelings towards him, about how many people were going to treat him... Bad. No one advised him that. They educated him, took care of him and... Lied to him. He died. He was killed. And yet, no one had the courage to tell him. So Hermes thinks it's... Wrong, to tell him that he loves him. That he always cared about him. That he always sacrificed anything he had for him. That didn't matter how many times he reincarnated, for him, he was still Dionysus, his Dionysus. But the other just, well, doesn't feel anything when hearing that. So used to actors and mysteries, that he's incapable of believing him, even if he wanted to.

"Ariadne hugs me. Mother hugs me. Artemis hugs me. You hug me. What's the difference between you all?" that gesture just doesn't reach him.

i just love how Hermes is... Always looking at Dionysus when they are represented together? How he's always next to him? How he's always like... Feeling bad for the way Dionysus ends up being due to their own mistakes? He feels everyone should have told him the truth about his origins, but the rest insisted in not letting him know.

I KNOW I KNOW there are no actual heights for the gods and they all look the same BUT BUT in human form, Dionysus is taller than Hermes and LOVES to pick him up because it bothers Hermes, since, well, when they were younger it was the other way around, Dionysus was the small one... How the turn tables.

They're both gods and they both had to do things that we might not like to see from a human point of view, but i love how they execute them so... Differently. Hermes seems to try to be more, like, peaceful, when ending someone's life; yet Dionysus will give them the most horrorific and violent punishment a mortal can recieve. Perhaps that's why Hermes took pity on the Minyades.

Hermes LOVES dropping hints towards the rest, because they always laugh and get them, but Dionysus can't !!! You need to tell him JUST what you wanna say, he does NOT get hints !! And that's hard for Hermes because he doesn't express "i love you" by saying it directly. He's SCREWED.

i've always adored the fact that Dionysus is a god so focused with fertility and insanity and whatever that he forgets how sexual themes actually work and. and he. doesn't get that kind of jokes either. You know:

Dionysus: Hey, your legs look great in those clothes. Hermes: You should see me without them. Dionysus: Hermes: Dionysus, confused: Why would you take off your legs??? Hermes, snorting: That's not—

After his own travel around Greece, Dionysus changed a bit. He was always a little different compared to the rest, but due to the resentment he holds now, he doesn't like being asked about what he does much. And Hermes knows that, so whenever someone does it he inmediatly goes "NOPE NOPE NOPE CLOSE YOUR MOUTH I APPRECIATE THAT YOU'RE ALIVE"

i love to imagine Hermes jumping behind Dionysus' back when he arrives back at Olympus, and that startles him because doesn't matter how many times Hermes does it, he NEVER remembers it.

Hermes is very clingy due to Apollo educating him in order to be like that, but Dionysus isn't. Not that he dislikes it, just as i explained, he has a hard time understanding what you truly mean OKAY he's had a rough life OKAY he was born three times OKAY

Hermes has rams as very important animals in his whole symbolisms and all that AND i associate Dionysus with rams. i know he was more associated with bulls and goats but RAM HORNS are a metaphor for a LEADER and that's how i view Dionysus. So anyways i just think he would hide between Hermes' rams, but Hermes doesn't get startled because he already knows he does this lmao

"Really, Hermes, what do you even see in that guy" Hermes: he has so many issues and he has me enamored with that

HEAR. HEAR ME. One of the few ways Dionysus actually learns to connect with the other is by DANCING. A very important part from his festivals. And he dances in a different way depending on who is the other. And for Hermes. He's. Elegant, graceful, decorous... He really feels like a LIBERATOR for Hermes. Like. Someone who isn't connected to his duties, because even the twins, who are precious to him, remind him of that somehow. But Dionysus doesn't and everytime they dance Hermes feels so good. Dionysus is just. Chilling. He knows what he's doing for once.

Persephone is Dionysus' mom, and after being separated from him for a long time, she has some fear for the rest of the gods getting near him. You know. Just like Demeter. Persephone was kidnapped from her AND Dionysus was taken away from Persephone as well. So Persephone doesn't, you know, trust Hermes that much. She loves and appreciates everything he does, she doesn't hate him, she can't, he's very dear to her ( just like Hades for Demeter ) BUT she has that resentment feeling tormenting her everytime she sees them together. uuggghhh

After Ariadne dies Hermes has even a harder time to connect with Dionysus. He doesn't know how he feels after that. Due to having various mortals around him (Semele, Ariadne, and others perhaps) die since, they're mortals, he doesn't know how to stay near him without making Dionysus feel he's taking advantage of him. That hurts him a lot, because those aren't his intentions. But he also wished that he learned that, he needs to learn the consequences of getting attached to mortals. Consequences Dionysus never accepts.

Dionysus can act very distant with the rest, BUT he always ends up being gentle with Hermes. He will hold his hands with care, lean on him carefully.

Hermes: [Talks a lot]. Dionysus: [Listens].

Hermes is a master at lying but HAH you can't lie to Dionysus. He's very, VERY good at reading people's minds. Which is even worse for Hermes since almost NO ONE can read Dionysus' thoughts.

HNNNNNNN I'M SO SORRY THAT'S SO MUCH......... If you've read this far ilysm with my entire being ty for listening to my ramblings. Dionysus and Hermes make me sick. In a good way. Biting the air again.

[lemontrash]

Epithets; the Pros and Pitfalls

Ok gang, so recently the topic of epithets in fanfic has come up and this is a topic I have been thinking about a LOT for A LONG TIME so I figured maybe now is the time to share my thoughts on phrases like ‘the braided baka’ and ‘the ebony-eyed Chinese pilot’ and what some of the pitfalls are in using epithets to enrich your writing. 

NOTE: I am not slamming the use of epithets! I am not coming into your fic from 25 years ago saying ‘shame!’. I am only maintaining that these are tricky to get right, and to raise awareness of how epithets can be a really useful, powerful tool of description but also a double-edged blade. 

What is an Epithet Anyway?

An epithet is a word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an actual or attributed quality, in addition to or instead of their name, and which are used to identify. 

On one side of tradition, they are poetic. Homer, writer of the Odyssey, was a big fan of these. ‘The wine dark sea’, ‘rosy fingered Dawn’, and ‘Nausicaa of the long white arms’ are some of his most famous, never mind ‘Apollo, destroyer of mice!’. In his works they were generally descriptive, or talked directly to the schemata (the perceptions and understanding) of his audience. 

Everyone knows Achaeans are super hairy, right? You know that. 

On another side of tradition, they are identifiers. If you have a populace named virtually nothing but John, Richard and Henry and you’re not used to using family names, then calling this John ‘Long John’ and that John ‘Little John’ helps direct attention to the right person. Or to acknowledge their good or bad deeds/attributes (Peter the Brave vs Stinky Pete, for example) or their lineage (Aragorn son of Arathorn/ John of Gaunt). They can be used for comedic purposes as a device to make purposefully similar characters more amusing (Wee Jock, Big Jock and Smaller-than-Big-Jock-but-Bigger-than-Wee-Jock Jock all agreed to steal the sheep. The Pirate with the Peg Leg and the Pirate with the Clothes Peg boarded the ship.)

But notice that many of these epithets still use people’s names or are direct substitutions for when a name isn’t known. And they are largely subjective - epithets carry not only description but opinion - the opinion of society at large or the opinion of the individual speaker - and pinpoint value - what it IS about this person we should pay attention to. 

And that means epithets can be used to praise, (Richard the Lionheart), to criticise (Bad King John), and to stereotype (those hairy Achaeans). 

Oh and these are just epithets used for people. Epithets come in other forms, for example:

“The earth is crying-sweet, And scattering-bright the air, Eddying, dizzying, closing round, With soft and drunken laughter…”

The highlighted parts of Beauty and Beauty by Rupert Brooke are also epithets. But i’m going to focus on those used to describe people in this discussion.

In short, epithets always carry meaning in two ways - they focus on what the user feels is perceptively important about the subject of the epithet, and as a result, when we look through the lens of an epithet, our view of a character narrows.  

Why are they Great? 

Because they’re poetic by nature; they add interest and often eloquence. And because they tell us so much about the point of view of the user. They can add new facets to characters and give writers a secondary means of identifying characters to reduce name fatigue, or differentiate between otherwise similar characters. They can be comedic or evocative. They can show the changeability of characters as they develop or when circumstances change. Clever Odysseus, Lord of Men can become Pitiable Odysseus, hated by the sea.  

But because they are poetic, because they carry opinion and because they are inherently narrow in their focus, there’s a whole bunch of pitfalls to be aware of when using epithets. Getting this wrong, well, maybe you just make your story harder to follow. Get it very wrong, and at worst you could genuinely offend someone. 

What’s the Problem with Poetry?

The first basic issue you may encounter is that your epithets are too vague or are being overused.

‘My better half’ is an epithet. But if he (she? they?) has not been introduced in any capacity and you also alternate referring to him (her? them?) as ‘the hardened police officer’ and ‘the sloe-eyed beauty’ I might be forgiven for losing track of how many people are in the scene, how they’re related and how I should be thinking of them. Especially early in a story where i’m still getting up to speed with the setting. Here your epithets are muddying the story and it’s a situation where you should be using names. Even for fanfic where we’re assuming that the characters are familiar to everyone, you should be clearly introducing your version of the characters, because generally readers like to know they’re on the same page from the start rather than get thrown for a loop later on. And also you can’t be sure what your reader is thinking, so tell them. 

Don’t forget that a NAME captures the whole of a person. Epithets only capture a slice.

You may also make your epithets too purple. ‘The azure-orbed golden-haired CEO’ is a mouthful, and may be adding detail that is irrelevant to the scene; imaging encountering that in a scene where Quatre is busy slashing through Leos in a desert battle. Who is stopping to think about that? Why does it deserve a spotlight right here, right now?

The other type of overuse is to pick one epithet that is your favourite and use it for every other mention of that character. Because epithets carry more meaning than names this is a little like shouting that character’s name through a bullhorn. It’s great the first couple of times - Wow! Exciting! Memorable! - but it fatigues faster than using their name would have. The epithet can then become annoying (’I know he’s got long hair, stop saying it!’) or at very very worst it can become othering. You will alienate your reader from the character, and at the absolute worst, this may mean your reader either comes out with expressions of an attitude to that character that you had no intention of courting or encouraging, or they think YOU have those attitudes and go away from your story thinking ‘wow, that was a well-written story but OOF. that guy’s got some uncomfortable feelings about stuff’.

Whose Line is it Anyway?

Epithets can be factual. They can be based on things you know, I know, and (most importantly) everyone in the story knows. For example, ‘The Wing Gundam Pilot’ is a factual epithet for Heero and is based on knowledge accessible and agreed by 99% of people. 

It would still not work if the narrative POV is a character who doesn’t know Heero or doesn’t recognise him as a Gundam Pilot at all. E.G. He’s in disguise and questioning Abdul, who has never met him before.  

And this is because epithets are still directional. They convey an understanding or a focus from the user to the reader, regardless of if the user is a character within the story, or the voice of the author themselves. And that’s where it can get weird. 

Let’s say I’m writing a story from Rashid’s POV. As a person, he is unlikely to be fussed about the colour of Heero’s eyes, or the fact that Trowa is tall because Rashid is too pragmatic to give a hoot if your eyes are blue or not, and literally everyone is a shrimp compared to Rashid. So in that story, epithets like ‘The azure-eyed pilot’ or ‘the tall pilot’ would be strange if not meaningless coming from that character, and in fact would break the 4th wall by forcing the author’s voice into the foreground. 

Effective epithets are either universal and readily accepted (and therefore often neutral/factual, even if they are poetic - rosey-fingered Dawn) or they are naturally biased towards the perspective of the user. Which means characterisation of an epithet used by a person in a story to describe another person in the story goes both ways: When a story in Heero’s POV describes Duo as a ‘violet-eyed beauty’ I may think ‘Duo, purple eyes, pretty boy, yes. check!’ but I will probably also think, ‘wow, Heero’s a massive closet romantic and he has some serious pants-feels for Duo’. 

Or if that doesn’t match my view of Heero as a character, I may well think that this author has missed the point of Heero Yuy: Perfect Soldier and it’s THEM who has the serious pants-feels for Duo. If it’s the middle of a gritty battle scene, I may also think ‘Wow, is this really the time, author? Put it back in your pants’. 

Or maybe in the above example, it’s a 1x2 but this is jumping the gun. Heero isn’t aware of his own feelings yet so this kind of epithet is premature in Chapter 1. Bring it in down the line when Heero’s acknowledging to himself that Duo makes him go all weird and sweaty. 

So use epithets knowing that they will describe the target but also the user, and if those things don’t accord, can jar your reader quickly out of the headspace you were trying to achieve or shout your own voice over that of your characters. 

Distilling or Reducing?

If I take a mint plant and distill it, I will end up with a bottle of menthol oil which I could shove under your nose and declare ‘this is perfume!’ and you, eyes streaming, would have to stand there and generally agree. 

But if i take a mint plant, rip off a leaf and push it in your face and declare ‘this is perfume!’ you’re less likely to agree with me. Because in this case, I am not distilling, i am reducing. 

Epithets can work the same way. At their best, they take everything you want to convey about a character and their situation/personality and condense it into one potent phrase that socks your reader in the face. 

But all too often, they are used reductively and then you actually lose a great deal of what’s important about a character for the sake of showmanship and/or lazy writer’s short-hand. 

Let’s go back to the Odyssey. Odysseus has just washed up after being shipwrecked; he’s naked, salt encrusted, beardy and beasty and savage. Whilst stumbling around on the shore he is met by a princess, Nausicaa. Nausicaa of the long, white arms. That’s her epithet. From a modern feminist perspective, it seems a little reductive, but in the context of the story, it’s a distillation. She plays an opposite to Odysseus in this scene as he struggles to come back to civilisation after his hardships. She is washing rich clothes; he’s dressed in rags. She’s feminine and cultured and graceful; he’s acting like a wild lion. She represents civilisation and ideals with her fragility and her skin that’s been protected from the sun. He’s burnt and has forgotten how to act like a man. 

So whilst the epithet is focussed it tells me a lot of what i need to know and expect of Nausicaa in terms of her role in the story, and the fact that she will compel Odysseus to come back to himself as King of Ithaca. 

However, epithets are commonly based on appearance, status or origin, and can very easily fall into stereotype and tropes. Remember Homer’s hairy Achaeans? Was that a flattering description? Would Achaeans bang their chest and cheer proudly to be described as hairy, or would they be put out? If Achaeans are hairy, then what are Trojans? 

Let’s bring this to a modern context. If I use ‘the American pilot’ as short hand to convey that Duo is brash and loud and reckless...can I guarantee that my reader will agree with that assumption? Personally I know a lot of Americans, many of whom are not brash or loud or reckless. And if Americans in my fic are de facto brash and loud and reckless... what are Chinese people like? Humourless and ill-tempered? Or is that just Wufei? As a British person, I can find it more than tiresome to see myself represented as old-fashioned and endlessly polite; particularly when it gets obvious that the writer hasn’t the first clue about the UK or British culture. I can only imagine what it’s like for minority groups. 

If you start short-handing in this way, it’s the top of a potentially slippery slope into unintentional racial or cultural profiling. This is where epithets can start to raise eyebrows or make readers reach for the back-button. You need to ask yourself - is this lazy description or is this meaningful? Is this from a ‘generic’ POV (IE, mine as the author) or is it quantified by the POV of a character in the story who may carry those biases? Should those biases be acknowledged or explored by the story? Should those biases be carried in character speech only, then, or is it ok to put them into the prose? 

Is there a way I can characterise that without short-handing with a basic epithet? If I’m already saying that Duo flipped the table and threw his hands up in impatience, does tagging on this epithet strengthen the meaning of those actions, or are his actions defining the epithet? 

Did you know that the alternative meaning of ‘epithet’ is ‘a disparaging or abusive word or phrase’? This is loaded description. 

And finally, sometimes the epithet is just plain boring. If the epithet is a universal fact, then it is also a static snapshot of the character we’ve seen before;  and it’s often not even individual. Heero has blue eyes... but so does Quatre, and so do Relena, Zechs, Mariemaia, Treize, Sally Po, Sylvia Noventa and that guy over there. It tells me nothing about Heero as a person and even if we argue ‘but it’s a specific shade of blue!’ Well...sure. It’s still not that unique and you shouldn’t have to dig that deep into the epithet to make the trait stand out. It’s the literary version of a newspaper headline yelling ‘WOMAN WEARS CLOTHES’. 

For example, compare: 

‘The blue-eyed Vice Foreign Minister entered the meeting room’ 

Cool beans. So what? Relena’s arrived but my attention is already distracted away from her looking for something more plot-related. Especially if this is chapter 3 and her appearance has already been described to me 6 or 7 times. 

‘The false queen, Relena Peacecraft entered the meeting room’. 

J u i c y! Sounds like tea is going to be spilled. Who’s still holding this grudge against her? Is she the villain here? I’m gonna keep reading. 

TL;DR

In summary,  epithets carry a lot of personal perspective and can be powerful devices in writing. Used well, they will lift up your writing and make it memorable, vivid and engaging. Used thoughtlessly, you can stumble into a number of pitfalls, some which will make your writing harder to read or unintentionally comedic, and others that could make you look like an asshole.