#I STILL BELIEVE MEREDITH IS THE WORST PART OF THIS SHOW IN THE LATE SEASONS

[morganas-pendragons]

I’m rewatching the OG days of Greys Anatomy after witnessing Meredith’s catastrophic exit (which is so funny to me lol) and real growth is realizing the best character developments and characters in general are Mark, Amelia, Addison and Lexie.

SHOUTOUT TO ADDISON MONTGOMERY GOTTA BE MY FAVORITE REDHEAD ON TV

[jazy3]

MerHayes Interview Thoughts Part 1

Some thoughts I have on the comments that Krista Vernoff has been making in interviews lately about Meredith, Hayes, and DeLuca. First off, I try to not to read that stuff as it is often misleading, but I had a feeling people were going to ask me about it so I did. I'm glad to see Krista talking about how Meredith and Hayes are equals, how great their chemistry is, and that they are going to be exploring that next season. Makes my heart happy. Based on Krista's comments it's likely that Hayes will be upped to a main character next season which also makes me happy because he's great! I also love that Krista pretty much admitted that while she's still carrying a torch for Meredith and DeLuca because she's the one that put those two characters together they don't work on screen and everything they tried to make work didn't.

If you actually read the articles all of the comments about it being a love triangle or Meredith and DeLuca being a couple come from the interviewers or Krista responding to a direct question where those things are implied or outright stated. This is bad journalism in that it puts the person responding in a difficult position in that in order to be factually accurate they have to disagree with the interviewer or tell them they’re wrong and are forced to adapt their answer to what the interviewer clearly believes. I also noticed that in a couple of the interviews I read that the interviewers kept pushing Krista for a straight answer as to who Meredith ends up with and kept pushing her on points she’d already addressed.

Again, this is bad journalism as they’re asking for answers they know the other person can’t possibly give which puts them in an awkward position. Because let’s face it, if she gave a straight answer there would be no reason to watch next season because we’d already know what happens. Also, no one on the planet can give a straight answer about anything right now because the whole world is on lockdown due to the quarantine. At this point, they have no idea when they’ll be able to film again. No one does. All this to say that I think asking anyone for a straight answer about anything right now is kind of ridiculous and that includes questions about a season that hasn’t even been written yet.

That being said it looks like Krista did her best to answer the bizarrely worded questions she was asked so let’s take a closer look at what she actually said and not what the headlines or the interviewers implied or stated based on their own opinions and the need to generate shock value. If you look at what she actually said it gives me hope. For instance, in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter she talks about how there are many pieces to making television. There's the conversation in the writers’ room, the script you write, and then there’s what the actors do with what they’ve been given to play. She talks about how the storylines that were written for Meredith, Hayes, and DeLuca evolved in a way that they didn’t expect, but that’s a good thing because they wound up way better than what they had originally envisioned because of the way the actors chose to play those roles.

She talks about how when they first envisioned the mental health storyline for DeLuca one of its early incarnations was that it would serve as a vehicle to improve his character and bring him and Meredith back together. That because, “DeLuca has been so heroic and so dynamic in his mental health storyline that, in a strange way, I expected that storyline would illuminate him as a love interest for Meredith and it ironically feels like it's done the opposite.” There are a few things I want to point out here. Notice how she says she thought the storyline would illuminate him as a love interest for Meredith? That implies that she no longer saw him as a love interest for her despite the fact that those characters were still together on the show when they decided on that storyline.

What Krista is saying here is that when they originally wrote the mental health storyline for DeLuca they expected the character to rise to the challenge and address his issues. They expected him to become this dynamic hero and that through this storyline he and Meredith would come together as this great medical team and find their way back to each other, but because of the way the actor chose to play the character that's not what happened and you can really see that on screen. We didn't see DeLuca rise this past season. We saw him fall spectacularly.

This storyline was supposed to bring Meredith and DeLuca closer together, but instead it pushed them farther apart. It was supposed to help resolve their issues, instead it only served to exacerbate them and emphasize why they don't work. It was meant to illuminate him as a suitable love interest, but instead it turned him into this cowering figure and in his place Hayes rose as the dynamic romantic lead that Meredith deserves. Krista goes onto say that it’s been amazing to watch the actor resonate with the storyline and that there’s a part of her that feels like if DeLuca got the right kind of treatment and worked on himself he could potentially become a human being with the kind of life experience that would help him rise to Meredith's level.

Personally, I don’t think that’s possible so my hope for Season 17 is that they’ll find a way to wrap up DeLuca’s storyline with regards to Meredith so that both characters can move on. Krista then talks about how in contrast the character of Hayes rose this season as a great new love interest for Meredith and how Hayes is a man that’s entered Meredith’s life unexpectedly, co-signed by Cristina, and how the audience has seen the pain he's survived and how, in so many ways, his life experience really mirrors Meredith's. Krista calls all of this a love triangle in response to the interviewer phrasing it that way, but what she goes on to describe isn’t really a triangle at all. What she’s basically saying here is that while she still ships Meredith and DeLuca together, she recognizes that they’re not working on screen. They had two seasons to make it work and they couldn't.

I’m really glad that they actors chose to go that way with their performances because to be honest the original incarnation of DeLuca’s storyline sounds dumb. Krista’s comments imply that the mental health storyline was supposed to make DeLuca into some kind of romantic hero and would somehow bring him and Meredith back together. This makes me sad because it implies that Krista Vernoff and the writers of Grey’s Anatomy don’t actually know anyone who suffers from Bipolar Disorder. I have family members that do and there is nothing romantic or heroic about it. It’s a disease. It sucks.

One of the worst parts as it’s been described to me is that so many of the medications you have to take for it make you flat to the point that you go from feeling everything, the highs and lows, to feeling nothing. You’re flat all the time. That’s not to say that people with Bipolar Disorder can’t live full and happy lives they can. But it’s challenging and the medications you have to take can create as many problems as they solve. I know everyone’s experience is different, but the notion that having a mental illness makes you some kind of hero or could possibly turn you into a romantic lead is just insulting to me. I’m really glad they didn’t go that route and that Giacomo Giannotti didn’t play the character that way. While I don’t like DeLuca as a character, I can’t deny that the actor did an amazing job with those scenes. He really sold just how sick DeLuca was and how badly he needs help.

It seems clear from the interview comments Krista has made and what we saw on screen this season that the storylines for Meredith, Hayes, and DeLuca went through several different incarnations and ended up in a different place than originally envisioned. Based on the information we have this appears to have occurred for two main reasons. The first was that the actors’ responded to and played their roles differently then expected and seeing how great that was the showrunners and writers leaned into that chemistry and those performances and ran with it. The second was the sudden and unexpected departure of Justin Chambers halfway through the season.

Chambers was originally expected to be there all season. It seems pretty clear based on what we did see that Alex was supposed to come back to Grey Sloan with the rest of the doctors and head up Peds again. And you can kinda see part of that in the storyline that did go to air. It appears that Alex was supposed to return to Grey Sloan and that he and Hayes were supposed to co-chief Peds together. This was well done from a writing standpoint in that it gave the writers lots of room to play, but also gave them an easy out if the actor they hired to play Hayes, Richard Flood, didn't work out. This was necessary for them to do because literally every single actor they’ve hired to play a love interest for Meredith since Derek died, and Patrick Dempsey left the show, has ultimately fallen through for one reason or another.

This has been touched on in various interviews given by the cast and crew over the last few years. Ever since Patrick left, they’ve been trying to find a new suitable love interest for Meredith that worked well on screen and that fans liked. Following Derek’s death, the cast and crew felt strongly that Meredith should be single for a while as losing your spouse and the father of your children is a devastating loss and should be dealt with tactfully. Ellen Pompeo has gone on record saying that she felt very strongly about this. Instead the Studio forced their hand and made them hire a new love interest.

Why? According to Ellen, the Studio thought the show wouldn’t survive without Patrick and so while she was on vacation in Sicily, trying to relax after the show wrapped for the season, they sent her pictures of men and called her up saying, “What do you think of this guy?" Over and over again. Classy right? Ellen was livid and rightly so. She couldn’t understand why the Studio was in such a rush to replace Patrick and immediately give Meredith a new love interest. The Studio believed that she couldn’t carry her own show so they forced them to bring in a new love interest for Meredith the next season.

Which is a big part of the reason why there’s an episode that encompasses an entire year. Because otherwise Meredith would have started dating right away before Derek was even cold in his grave because the Studio forced their hand. So, faced with a situation that no one was happy with they hired Scott Elrod to play William Thorpe and create a transition point for Meredith. They then hired Martin Henderson to play Nathan Riggs, who they knew and liked because he had worked on another Shonda Rhimes show Off the Map back in 2010. They did their best to make it work, but it was clearly way too soon for Meredith to be dating again and as much as I loved Meredith and Riggs together you can see the reluctance and the anger that Ellen felt in her performance.

As anyone else could have predicted fans were not happy about this either as it was way too soon. And eventually, the Studio got it and gave them the go ahead to end that storyline. And that’s why the write off is so sudden. As soon as they were given the go ahead they immediately wrote Riggs off to go be with Megan and Farouk in California. And Martin Henderson was fine with that because he told them from the beginning he didn’t want to be on the show long term which they were fine with because bringing him in was a temporary measure to pacify the Studio until they finally got it.

Following Patrick’s departure the ratings for the show actually went up and the show continued to thrive which eventually resulted in the Studio backing off with their ludicrous demands and allowed the showrunners and writers to regain creative control over Meredith’s love life. Following Henderson’s departure it was reported by TV Line that the show had cast a new love interest for Meredith to replace Riggs and that this new character would be a hot foreign doctor whose parent was also a famous surgeon. I remember reading about that at the time and being really excited for it. I loved Meredith and Riggs together and I was really sad and shocked to see him go. But then Season 14 came and went and this new love interest never materialized.

They did come close once when they cast Scott Speedman to play Nick Marsh and did a whole episode about Meredith opening herself up to love again and connecting with him. From what I’ve read the cast, crew, and Studio wanted him to be Meredith’s new love interest, but Speedman had just finished a several year run as Baz on the show Animal Kingdom and wanted to try something else before committing to another tv show.

It eventually came out during the summer break between seasons 15 and 16 that they had hired someone to play a new love interest for Season 14, but then the news got leaked to the press and spoiled the surprise. After that they were forced to scrap that storyline and what they had originally planned turned into the Marie Cerone storyline about Ellis Grey and the Grey Method. I loved that storyline, but I was heartbroken when I found out that the information getting leaked to the press was the reason we had to wait so long for Meredith to get a new love interest and why we wound up with the disaster that was Meredith and DeLuca. 

Having regained creative control over the storylines regarding Meredith’s love life they were finally able to do the storyline that they had originally planned in Season 15 with Meredith hiring a matchmaker and going on a bunch of blind dates. I expected based on what they set up with CeCe the matchmaker that Meredith’s new love interest would come from one of these blind dates. But then they started having both Link and DeLuca pursue Meredith. They spent a lot of time showing us what a great guy Link was and how he took the time to get to know Meredith and do nice things for her. In contrast they showed DeLuca to be a bumbling mess, who her friends couldn’t stand, who didn’t know Meredith at all, and was only interest in dating her not being a part of her life.

Which is why I, like a lot of fans, was so surprised when Meredith stood Link up and started dating DeLuca with no explanation given for either. Following that Amelia and Link got together and as I think many will agree they’re great together and are obviously a better fit. Prior to the conference episode Link and Amelia only had one small scene together that I can recall which makes me wonder if they shot a deleted scene together where their chemistry came through and the writers decided to put them together instead.

During Season 15 when Meredith had just started dating DeLuca, Ellen was interviewed at an awards party and was asked about her potential love interests. She said that Meredith had chosen DeLuca for now and that one of the challenges about having a show go this long is that it’s hard to find actors who are willing to be on a show that’s already so established long term. This makes it sound like they were in the process of hiring a substantial new love interest for Meredith for Season 15 and it fell through because the actor was offered a part on a new series or perhaps a movie role. With this context, the about change of face we saw in the second half of Season 15 starts to make sense. A few different scenarios are possible here.

One, they hired Chris Carmack to play Link with the intention of making him Meredith’s new love interest, but then realized he worked better with Amelia and then decided to put Meredith with DeLuca as they had already set that up. Two, they did all of that and then when they realized Amelia and Link worked better together, they decided to have Meredith date DeLuca to create a transition point, before introducing a new more permanent love interest only for the casting to fall through at the last minute.

We’ll probably never know what the real story is, but it seems clear that the only reason that Meredith and DeLuca wound up dating or being anything more than a hookup or a brief fling is casting for Meredith’s new permanent love interest fell through. You can tell that once they decided to go for it, they tried to give DeLuca more depth by giving him part of the backstory that they originally wrote for the love interest that was supposed to appear in Season 14.

As many other people have commented on, while Ellen and Giacomo are friends in real life it’s pretty clear that Ellen is not into the Meredith and DeLuca pairing and that really comes across on screen. They’re both good actors, but they come across as so wooden and stiff every time they’re on screen together in what is supposed to be a romantic way. From the fragments of interviews I did read from Season 15 and the break between seasons 15 and 16 when the showrunners brought the idea of bringing the two characters together to the actors were both really surprised and confused.

Ellen’s opinion on the pairing clearly hasn’t changed whereas Giacomo seems to have really gotten into it which is a shame considering that they have absolutely no chemistry and don’t work at all. When Season 15 wrapped Krista did a post-mortem interview which I read to try and understand the cluster eff that was the second half of that season and it only left me more confused. The show that got described in that article sounded nice, but it had absolutely no relation to the show that actually aired that season.

It appears based on this that during Season 15, the first season not to have Shonda Rhimes’ direct daily oversight as she moved on to other projects, the perception of the cast and crew as to what was working on screen and the reality was wildly off base. It’s also possible that they knew certain storylines weren’t working, but they hoped that if they talked them up enough and gave the fans more time to get used to them they would warm up to them. This might explain why they decided to keep pushing ahead with the storylines they had planned, rather than what actually worked on screen during the second half of the season.

As we saw that straight up didn’t work and it appears that they realized it too because in Season 16 they retconned, changed, and fixed all of the storylines that didn’t work from the previous season. In fact the only two major storylines that they kept were the pairings of Amelia and Link and Teddy and Tom because those were the only storylines out of that season that really worked. As I’ve said before I’m very glad that they did because this resulted in the introduction of Hayes as a character.

While I’m strongly of the belief that Meredith and DeLuca make no sense as a pairing and should never have happened, one of the silver linings of that storyline is that in enabled the show to finally hire a permanent love interest that worked. I noticed that during and after Season 14 every other article that came out about the show was about who Meredith’s new love interest would be. So, in a way it’s not surprising that information got leaked to the press because they absolutely hounded them about it.

After Meredith got with DeLuca the media attention subsided which allowed the show to hire an actor to play Meredith’s new love interest that actually worked and keep it a surprise. I remember when they announced that Hayes would be joining the cast. I remember being annoyed because I wanted Alex back at Grey Sloan and I saw a lot of people speculating that he was a new love interest for Maggie. This redirected attention allowed the show to hire a new actor to play a permanent suitable mature love interest for Meredith without the entire storyline getting spoiled.

Also, you’ll notice that in creating Hayes as a character they used the other part of the backstory they had crafted for the Season 14 love interest that had to scraped. I think these two storylines really showcase how the right casting and the right set up can make all the difference. As my Tumblr friend @onthetrailtohappiness once said DeLuca was never intended to be a love interest for the show’s main character. Suddenly forcing him into that role didn’t change that. The set up wasn’t there and shoehorning in a backstory for him that was taken from an abandoned character to magically give him something in common with Meredith after he’d been on the show for several years didn’t change that and it clearly didn’t work.

The character of Hayes on the other hand was clearly created to be a love interest for Meredith. You can tell from the way they gel on screen that they did a chemistry test with the actors and I’ve read that Ellen herself was part of the casting process. They took the unused backstory that they had and built it into his character from the beginning which is why Hayes works so well. That and the actor does a great job playing him and giving him a depth and a complexity that makes him really interesting and fun to watch. Part 2: https://jazy3.tumblr.com/post/620941935846293504/merhayes-interview-thoughts-part-2

[mittensmorgul]

6.21, Let It Bleed.

>.>

This episode is absolutely agonizing, but provides a tidy encapsulation of Sera Gamble's era of showrunning, pulling on all her favorite themes-- torture porn, basically...

Although I did notice some interesting connections to later canon that I feel merit commentary:

This was the point of no return for Cas. 6.20 may have illustrated the "truth" behind all of s6 to this point, that Cas had essentially been in moral freefall because of his own choices (the road to hell is paved with good intentions), this was the episode that cemented his fate. This was the fulfilment of his betrayal.

Thank heck later showrunners would be able to use this entire mess to ground the narrative of his growth as a character on for the next 9 years, so at least SOMETHING good would eventually come of it. But ugh ugh ugh, I absolutely still hate it on an emotional level within the context of the Gamble Era. She tried to make Cas utterly unredeemable before killing him off... I'm still shocked the show didn't get cancelled after s7, and I'm still convinced that Cas's resurrection in 7.17 was pretty much the only reason it survived, when in much the same way 6.20 salvaged a coherent enough narrative out of s6 to hold the season together, 7.17 salvaged s7 by at least giving the characters (all of them) a chance at redemption after s7 will take pretty much everything from them.

But I digress, as usual.

CASTIEL: You don't believe me. DEAN: I don't believe a word that's coming out of your mouth. CASTIEL: I thought you said that we were like family. Well I think that too. Shouldn't trust run both ways? DEAN: Cas, I just can't... CASTIEL: Dean, I do everything that you ask. I always come when you call, and I am your friend. Still, despite your lack of faith in me, and now your threats, I just saved you, yet again. Has anyone but your closest kin ever done more for you? All I ask is this one thing. DEAN: Trust your plan to pop Purgatory? CASTIEL: I've earned that, Dean. DEAN: (scoffs) CASTIEL: I came to tell you that I will find Lisa and Ben, and I will bring them back. Stand behind me, the one time I ask. DEAN: You're asking me to stand down? CASTIEL: Dean. DEAN: That's the same damn ransom note that Crowley handed me. You know that, right? Well no thanks. I'll find 'em myself. In fact, why don't you go back to Crowley and tell him that I said you can both kiss my ass.

And Castiel's fall is now complete. Only instead of falling from Heaven to Earth as he did in s5, he bypassed Dean entirely and dove straight to the basement. And this makes everything that happens in the rest of the episode (from Dean's perspective) just as much Cas's fault as Crowley's. They're one and the same, equally morally at fault (and by the end of 6.22, Cas will surpass Crowely in fault, betraying even Crowley in their partnership and taking the full weight of what will come in s7 onto his own shoulders. Big Bad Status Achieved.)

Something happens in 6.21 that has gained an interesting new significance in Dabb Era:

CASTIEL: I'm sorry. DEAN: I don't care. It's too little, too late. CASTIEL: Okay. Well, regardless, I didn't come for you. DEAN: Meaning? CASTIEL: (he walks up to Lisa and places his hand on her forehead, healing her) She's fine now. She'll wake soon. Dean, I said I'm sorry and I meant it. DEAN: Thank you. I wish this changed anything. (Dean is visibly upset.) CASTIEL: I know. So do I. All else aside, I just wanted to fix what I could. (Castiel starts to walk away.) DEAN: There's one more thing you could do for me. [...] SAM: (sighs) Dean, you know, you've pulled some shady crap before, but this - (he shakes his head) - has got to be the worst. (he scoffs) Whitewashing their memories? Take it from somebody who knows - DEAN: If you ever mention Lisa and Ben to me again, I will break your nose. SAM: Dean. DEAN: I'm not kidding. (Sam is about to protest, but Dean looks at him and he sees the tears in Dean's eyes, so he nods. Sam closes his door and they drive off.)

And this specific variety of mental torture happens again in 6.22 (Kripke's final episode...), with a more sinister intent:

BOBBY: Oh, Ellie. What have they done to you? ELEANOR: (chuckles) Everything. The demon I could've handled, but when the angel stepped in, I - (sighs) I told him, Bobby. They have enough to crack Purgatory wide open.

Dabb era has given this trick of Castiel's some rather horrifying new context, yes? Thank you, Meredith Glynn! From 13.14:

CASTIEL: The spell to open the gate—you gave us the wrong ingredients. DONATELLO: Duh. CASTIEL: But you know the right ones. DONATELLO: I might. But like I told Sam and Dean, you’re wasting your time. [CASTIEL nods, as he takes off his trench coat.] CASTIEL: Well, I’m not Sam and Dean. DONATELLO: What are you gonna do? CASTIEL: I am going to do something that I promised I would never do to a human being without their permission. I’m gonna strip the spell from your mind. DONATELLO: You—you—you—you can’t. I—I’ve absorbed too much power. Y-y-you’ll fry us both! CASTIEL: I might. [CASTIEL raises his hand and places it on DONATELLO’s head.]

Like we can now assume was a direct parallel to what Cas did to Eleanor in 6.22. Sam and Dean may have tried conventional interrogation techniques, but... Cas has the Advanced Interrogation "strip information directly from their minds and leave them in a vegetative state" power.

Now if anyone was unsure of how Dabb Era regards Cas's role at that point in the narrative, even Bucklemming recognize the horror of this specific power, and specifically condemn both it and Castiel's past actions using it in 13.22. In fact, they heavily imply that this specific power was actively the downfall of ApocalypseWorld!Castiel-- in part because it broke him, and in part because our Castiel condemns it himself, judging and killing his AU self:

AW-CASTIEL I haven’t seen many like you. But... [He walks around behind Charlie. Ketch and the angel who was beating him are watching from across the room. Ketch is still chained to the ceiling and the angel looks gleeful at what is about to happen. AW-Castiel leans over Charlie’s shoulder to whisper into her ear.] AW-CASTIEL But you have to understand that everyone has a breaking point. [Charlie swallows nervously and Ketch looks on intently. AW-Castiel walks around in front of her again and begins to remove his gloves. He is calm.] AW-CASTIEL (as if considering a theory) A...point of pain. Particular, primitive fear, maybe. But it’s a nerve so...raw that your will -- grit, they cease to be factors. [AW-CASTIEL leans forward again as he talks, until he is right in Charlie’s face.] AW-CASTIEL And then all your little secrets, they flow from your mind, to mine...until your mind no longer exists. [His last words are hissed into Charlie’s ear. His eyes begin to glow blue and he grabs Charlies head in both hands. Charlie begins screaming in obvious agony. Ketch is watching, tears pouring down his face at the fate of his friend. Just then the lights go out. AW-Castiel stops his torture and he and the angel who had been torturing Ketch look around in confusion.] [...] AW-CASTIEL You align yourself with the h-humans. CAS I vastly prefer them to angels. AW-CASTIEL Don’t think that you are better than me. Well, we are the same. CAS Yes. We are. [Cas stabs AW-Castiel with the angel blade. AW-Castiel screams and then dies with bluish-white light coming from his eyes and mouth. Cas lets the body of his doppelganger fall to the ground. Cas looks at him for a minute before leaving.]

So I mean, when you have the entire writing team aligned, even Bucklemming, all agreeing that this is the ultimate condemnation of s6 Cas, and even allowing s13 Cas to finally fully reject that path by murdering the version of himself that gave into it completely, it makes for a rather striking moral commentary from the current era of the show back to Gamble Era. I don't really know what else to say about it, aside from "Yes, Castiel was absolutely the Big Bad of Gamble Era, and refusing to accept that horrific narrative turn as the truth when every other writer currently still working on the show has accepted it and done everything in their power to demonstrate that Cas has not only repented of these horrors but gone so far as to structure the next nine years of his own character development around understanding himself and his place in the universe, and actively rejecting every possible path that would lead him to that sort of ruination..." well, that's willfully missing the whole entire point of his character arc.

Unfortunately for Cas, things still have to get worse before they can get better... and on that note, I'm on to s7. >.>