#I can't believe people still don't see the difference between byler and all the other ships

[whyyamihereagain]

how can people compare byler to johnlock, sterek, destiel ... when st*eddie is right there

[chirpsythismorning]

Will Won't Believe Mike Has Feelings For Him, Until Mike Unpacks EVERYTHING!

In season 2, almost every touch between byler was initiated by Mike. Literally two episodes in a row at the start of that season, the camera focuses on Mike wrapping his arm around Will's shoulder warmly, only for us to never see this gesture from Mike again until s4, except this time it's with El (feat. Will in the background).

This is important because it means Mike went from initiating touch with Will in the earlier seasons, to not initiating it in the later ones, and conveniently right after he started having a relationship with El.

After holding back from initiating any contact with Will all of s3 (the same season almost all contact between them was initiated by Will for the first time), it's not until the end of the season that Mike lets go of his ih right as Will is about to leave for California, falling into his arms.

And then it takes the literal apocalypse, at the very end of s4, for Mike to wholeheartedly initiate contact with Will again (after yet another season of Will initiating most).

And so it makes sense why Will would be confused.

Because at the end of s3, Mike gives him the impression that he didn't want Will to join another party, with Will basically admitting that was the whole point of him donating the dnd game, because joining another party would literally be impossible for him, so like what's the point?

Will's feelings aren't going away. Whether or not Mike feels the same, is beside the point. Will still wants to be in Mike's life as his friend and he would be ecstatic to be best friends like they used to, entirely platonically.

After all, Will used to attribute Mike's behavior in earlier seasons as platonic, whereas bylers arguably viewed it as romantic. So Will's idea of romantic vs. platonic may very well be different than Mike's (and perhaps ours).

We tend to view those gestures as romantic, especially because Mike went from being able to do them nonchalantly, to now looking like a deer in headlights any time Will so much as slightly grazes his arm.

This is why I think Mike and Will's personal experiences with ih intersect and overlap. It affects them both differently, and that's probably because they had their realizations at different times, but it’s also probably because it started in environments that don’t resemble the exact same circumstances and experiences.

I do think because of Lonnie and because of Will's experiences growing up being bullied, he is understandably scared of being a target and that will never go away, it never does for queer people. That trauma is deep for Will and it's why he can't stand up for El in s4 when it comes to the bullies. It's why he freezes. And yet, even still, he seems a lot more comfortable in being who he is in a way that I just don't think Mike is, at least not fully or to the extent Will is (yet).

And it's because they are at totally different stages of their journey, journeys that are going to look totally different even side by side, but still qualify as both being worthy enough for acknowledgment in the end.

I hate the whole excuse regarding the girl in Will's class, because we don't really get much context there. But I'm guessing that Will obviously knew this girl sort of well. They're sitting next to each other in class, and he's been going to this school for about 6 months, so I highly doubt they are strangers.

I also am assuming they talked enough that this girl felt compelled to flirt by playing footsy, as opposed to her just being attracted to him and doing it on a whim. That obviously doesn't excuse her touching him without his consent, but what I'm trying to say is that there are girls that have liked Will for who he is, after getting to know him, who want to get to know him more romantically and he's just.... not having it.

And so if Will was craving normalcy to the point where he wanted to appear straight, dating a girl that is fully interested in him is obviously one of the popular options a person might consider in that situation. And Will's had this opportunity. This was just one of at least 3 in canon occurrences where a girl implied, 'Hey. I'm interested' towards Will. Which means all he would have to do is play along and he could keep his sexuality locked down and ignore his true feelings, by pretending to be happy in a heterosexual relationship.

We even have an unnamed fourth girl in the mix, who Will doesn't even know exists. This girl exists solely to make Mike insecure about his and Will's relationship. Because in contrast to Will, and most people that don't have extreme cases of ih, Mike views romantic relationships as shutting out everyone else, and he's scared that now that Will might be interested in a girl and moving towards a romantic relationship, he's going to shut Mike out and he'll lose him for good.

But Will doesn't have that same level of denial or self-hatred that might lead one to pursue or even simply draw out an unromantic relationship, at least not anymore. You could try to argue that in s2 Will did because he gave in and danced with the girl (at Mike's insistence), but since then, nothing.

Will is the kind of person that is comfortable enough in his sexuality to literally be single for the rest of his life, contentedly, because that would mean he doesn't have to pretend to be someone he's not to fit society's expectations. He's not scared enough about the implications of not having a gf and what people would think of him as a result. He is who he is and he's accepted that part of himself.

Mike on the other hand, has lots of expectations of himself, that he's sort of forcing himself to obey and follow. And he's also well aware of the implications of everything he does, especially when it relates to Will. He hyper-focuses on his actions and it's why he can't be fully honest about how he feels, and this is because how he has been acting as of late, is mostly an act in and of itself. An act that protects him from exploring the truth about his sexuality. An act that allows him to ignore it all together.

Every time Will has confronted Mike about his inability to be a good friend like he used to be, it's literally coming from a platonic place, not from a place of Will expecting Mike to return his love.

That's the thing, he doesn't think Mike could ever love him because he thinks Mike is straight. But he also (unlike Mike) doesn't have fears about Mike viewing his behavior as romantic, he just has fears that Mike doesn't want him as a friend anymore.

And I think that's the difference between Will's ih and Mike's.

Because Mike's ih is attributed to how he's been taught to believe he must grow up and be a certain way, according to bs media propaganda and from his family, along with how all of those ideas impacted him internally, since he has no one to really talk about it with.

And while Will has experienced some heinous shit in regards to his perceived sexuality at an extremely young age (a lot of which Mike witnessed right beside him or experienced himself firsthand) he doesn't apply those insecurities to his relationship with Mike. Even though Lonnie and those bullies and the scum of town broke him down, his mother loves him and his brother loves him and his best friend said asking him to be his best friend was the best thing he's ever done.

Mike doesn't have that kind of support going on for him when it comes to accepting his sexuality. He's scared, and understandably so.

This contrast between their characters is obvious in the way they go about their relationship, specifically in s4.

For example, Will doesn't view Mike not sending him letters as Mike turning him down romantically, he views it as Mike not caring about him at all, even as a friend.

And that's the main thing that made me have this realization about Mike's behavior in s4, and over the seasons in general because, to Mike, writing a letter to Will had romantic implications.

He sent letters to El and literally couldn't give in to send not even one letter to Will, and it's because, well, it would be too obvious (gay).

I imagine it's possible Will called Mike after they were settled in Cali, because he was still fairly certain they were on good terms considering how they left things (he has no idea Mike is spiraling over being recommitted to El again). Will had little reason to be insecure that Mike wouldn't want to talk to him, so I imagine that initially, things were at least fine.

But then it's been about a week and the Byers get a couple of letters in the mail, one for El and one for Jonathan, and... I can't even imagine what Will might have been feeling in that moment.

And then it happens again. And again. And Will is confused, because he thought they resolved things in their last conversation. He thought that they hugged and they were back to the way things used to be.

We even get this moment where Max is writing letters to everyone, EVERYONE, which makes me think Will did get letters from his other friends after the move, from Dustin, Lucas and even Max. And I think this can also be supported by a few other details. Bc if the phone line was busy, I don’t think any of the other friends would have a problem with writing Will a letter to reach him instead. And so by Dustin complaining about Mike was always whining about the Byers line being busy is an interesting choice bc, why wouldn't Dustin also complain? Wouldn't he want to call to talk to Will too.... Unless, Dustin is fully capable of getting his platonic Will fix via letters, EVEN probably ending them with love Dustin. (Will also knew what Lucas’ hair looked like in s4, which he would only really know if he got a picture of Lucas sent to him in the mail, most likely accompanied by a letter catching up).

I'm honestly guessing, that the only person who didn't write Will, not even once, was Mike.

It makes sense that in the time between s3-s4, Will attributed this behavior from Mike as him just reverting back to his s3 ways. He stopped focusing on Will and put all of his energy into worrying about El (again).

And so although Will doesn't make the effort to reach out to Mike as much as he could have, it's not because he's scared Mike will realize his feelings for him if he 'goes too far' or something. It's because he just genuinely thinks that Mike doesn't want to be his friend anymore.

And then the couple other times Mike himself calls the Byers over those 6 months, it's incredibly awkward. Something is off and Will doesn't know what it is or if it's his fault.

And this is why he puts his heart and soul into that painting.

The party was the last thing they talked about when they last saw each other. And that painting and what it represents reminds Will of a time when they were younger, when they could be themselves. Or more specifically when Mike could be himself and show how much he cared about Will, something he has been incapable of doing to the extent he would like to, for quite some time now. Will's holding onto this small ounce of hope that he just needs to prove to Mike that their friendship can still be what it used to be, if that's what Mike wants of course. And he's not scared that Mike is going to see this as romantic, or he's at least not worried about it. Why else would he put a heart on his shield and plan on giving it to him in front of everyone, in public?

Over the next few months, letters to El (from Mike), are arriving less and less over time, but they're still semi consistent. And all the while Will's just working on his painting with the purest and kindest of intentions.

Then, the day of their reunion finally comes and Will is so excited to hug Mike and give him the painting, but then suddenly, Mike is rejecting him. Instead of going in for a hug like he did at the end of s3, Mike makes his way towards Will, only to pull himself back and tap him on the shoulder instead before they can even hug properly.

Will looked very happy to see Mike, just like Mike did initially. However, in contrast, Will didn't hold himself back from the embrace at all, not until he saw Mike doing it.

Meaning ih wasn't in the way of Will in this moment, but it was in the way for Mike.

Mike's inability to simply hug him back like a friend hugs a friend, is when Will thinks, 'okay. so this painting is probably not the best idea.'

And then all day long, Will is moping, not even thinking about the implications of what it could look like. He doesn't care if he looks like a sad gay boy, because he is a sad gay boy.

Meanwhile Mike is smiling (painfully) most of the day, though we know because Mike lets it slip later, that he was too distracted by Will's moping to even enjoy himself. It was all an act. He was internalizing everything he was truly feeling and thinking in those moments.

Again we're seeing Will being quite capable of showing a full range of emotions, without him worrying about the implications that may come with it, whereas the implications of anything and everything Mike does (or even wears) is a guiding factor for why he is behaving the way that he is.

And then at Rink-O-Mania, Will says, 'what about us' and the entire byler community is gasping.. bc i mean, the guts?? the confidence? the self assurance that he must have had to say something so bold such as, 'what about us??', all while Mike is looking back at him fucking starstruck, wishing he had the balls to say something like that intentionally and not by accident.

Mike has started to be extremely careful about what he says, and in turn Will is having no choice but to do the same.

At this moment, Mike is still reeling from admitting to paying more attention to Will's mood than El who was lying straight to his face, and now Will is suddenly revealing to Mike that he missed him a lot and he was sad that Mike didn't call more...

But instead of Mike being like BRO I called. I called you every day for almost a year... he keeps his mouth shut.

This is the moment we finally see Mike's mask start to crack, because in this moment he reveals that he couldn't write to him because, "She's my girlfriend Will!" and "We're friends. We're friends.".

All of which are things Will never disputed as being basic facts.

The reality is Will isn't upset here because Mike doesn't want to do romantic coded things with him, he's upset because things that used to be platonic for them, that are platonic for most best friends, Mike is suddenly viewing as romantic now.

"But we used to be best friends," drives home this fact that Will's insecurities about their relationship are tied to Mike's behavior.

And then Mike's ih and 'detouring back into the closet' tendencies are back in full force, and it's causing Will to also cut himself short. Instead of being honest like he always is, he's stopping himself, because Mike is starting to change his tune.

It's why he walked away after the rain fight, and it's why he keeps his mouth shut instead of defending himself. Because this isn't how things used to be between them.

And that's what I find kind of tragic about their slow-burn, and I haven't seen anyone talk about this, which is that I think their experiences overlap.

I think that Mike's ih is starting to impact Will in a negative way. While Will has been learning to accept himself over the seasons, Mike's been learning to hide.

We've seen them go from a relationship early on where Mike was the reason Will accepted himself, to now being the reason he has to give him a veiled love confession, because at this point, Will has little reason to believe Mike could love him back based on his actions and his behavior.

At the end of s3, right before they hug, Will kind of just stands there waiting for Mike to hug him, like he's down to hug Mike, but only if that's what he wants. Will's ih is only starting to kick in at all now because Mike's has went from nonexistent, to value infinity. After a season of initiating all contact, Will is skeptical Mike even wants to hug him. But then Mike is falling into his arms and it's such a pure moment, because now Will is thinking, albeit bittersweetly, that things can go back to normal for them.

But they don't, with s4 essentially starting out as a repeat of s3.

Will is back to this trend of initiating all their physical contact again. First going in for a hug at the airport brightly (only to be shot down). Poking Mike in the chest at Rink-O-Mania when they're arguing. Grazing Mike's arm in the van when he gives him the painting. Reaching out to tap his shoulder during his monologue. Hugging Lucas with him. Elbowing him subtly to ask about how things are with El. These are all subtle moments where Will goes out his way to initiate touch with Mike, things that arguably Mike used to do with Will, but now only does extremely rarely, and most notably at the last second at the end of the season, after holding himself back the first 8 or so episodes.

I think what's so important about the way they approached this, is that in order for Will to truly accept and love himself, Mike has to accept himself too.

Without even realizing it, a long time ago, Mike made Will accept himself. Will was arguably experiencing a lot of ih in the first two seasons, but then suddenly it flipped, and now it's the other way around, with Will just being confused like I thought you cured me of this bro? wtf??

Will literally poured his heart out to Mike with that painting. He told Mike how he felt. He even spent the last year or so being fairly honest about how he viewed their friendship and about how he feels about him. And while Mike always makes the effort to correct things with Will, a lot faster than he does with anyone else, he's still leaving Will in the dark here.

Because while most bylers are fully convinced s4 ended things in a way that proves Mike is ready to be with Will once that opportunity arises, that doesn't mean Will is going to believe him.

Will doesn't end the season thinking Mike loves him, he ends it thinking the exact opposite.

It doesn't matter that Mike is finally reaching out to him again or that he's even standing right beside him at the end, because Will has already been through this with Mike.

He's already gotten hope that they could go back to how they were.

And even though their reconciliation in s4 seemed to resolve things, things still ended in a similar way to s3, only this time in a more grand way, with Mike telling El he loved her 9 times, and the added bonus that he apparently felt like his life started that day they found her in the woods (the same day Will went missing).

And so somethings gotta give. We cant just have a repeat of s3 and s4.

I think it's going to take A LOT for Will to even consider Mike could not only see him truly as a best friend again, but that he also returns his feelings romantically.

Sadly, despite all the beauty that is byler when it comes to them voicing how much they care about each other, Mike's inability to even want a platonic relationship is why they are in this situation in the first place. Because I honestly think Will is capable of a platonic relationship with Mike, whereas I do no think Mike is capable of having a platonic relationship with Will. And his attempts to hide his feelings have caused Will to be insecure about where their friendship lies.

And so it's going to require Will getting an explanation as to why Mike has been acting this way for so long.

Mike's not going to be able to end things with El and then manage to convince Will that its him who he loves.

This is where I think the letter comes in. I think that Will pouring his heart out in that painting, explaining all the ways Mike makes him feel like he's not a mistake, needs to be reciprocated in a similar way from Mike's end.

After the past few years of him making Will question everything he ever thought about their relationship, both Will and Mike deserve the closure that comes with acknowledging what the hell happened between them.

And I think the best way to do that is for Will to understand why Mike did what he did, because Will didn't personally have ih that gave him the urge to seek out, nor stay in unhappy relationships. Like I'm sure Will's fairly convinced that having a girlfriend is strictly straight behavior, as are most (uninformed) people.

If Mike wants to be with Will, he needs to give Will closure about why they went from best friends to strangers. And that is going to require Mike unpacking his ih in a way that Will is going to understand, once Mike finally acknowledges it instead of beating around the bush. Will is going to be able to be the thing that makes Mike accept himself, and vice versa.

And the way I think Mike is going to do that is IN A LETER (especially after convincing himself letters are romantic? boy! you better prove it!)

Once they finally do that, once they both speak to each other in their own personal love language (Will with his art and Mike with his writing), they'll finally understand each other and where they were both coming from.

And that's when they'll realize that they can overcome all these fears they've had growing up, everything that caused them this big mess in the first place, because they'll be able to get through it together.

And it's going to be so heartbreakingly beautiful and real that not even the ga is going to be able to be mad.

[cluelessbees]

through the whole time I’ve been following you I’ve never once seen you say anything about Palestine before. Since the news broke about Hamas killing Israelis, rightfully so you’ve shared posts etc about it all and it seems like posting about st/byler is the last thing you wanna think about rn. Which is fine! But lately its just seeming like you’re doing it to prove to everyone how smart and informed/outraged you are about the conflict and how dare anyone talk about anything else… in one of your recent reposts you tagged that all the Palestinians that have died in the 75 years shouldn’t be forgotten (they shouldn’t! What’s been done is awful) and fuck anyone who doesn’t wanna read about it bc it makes them feel bad. I would be more willing to agree with you on the things you say/repost if I’d seen you post about it before… but you haven’t. I’ve never seen you talk about Palestine before on your byler based acc (bc you’re here to talk abt byler!) but suddenly it’s like you’re some social justice warrior who can’t bare to talk about byler bc the Israel/Palestine conflict has been brought to attention again on social media. Others who have reposted things have still posted abt things they like in between bc they know the small things they share won’t make a big difference but they want to show they still care whereas yours seems performative at this point.

I'm going to stay as calm as possible here.

Go unfollow me if you don't want to see anything about Palestine. That's it. Point blank. I don't need your validation or your follow or whatever.

Just because I've never talked about the issue before online doesn't mean it isn't an important issue to me. I'm an Arab. I hear news about this every week. I grew up hearing about Palestinians being kicked out of their homes, being bombed, being killed. Every Ramadan I read articles of Palestinians being beaten and killed for praying in Masjid Al-Aqsa.

I have friends who are Palestinians refugees, who can't even return to Palestine. I have a teacher that left my highschool to go back to Gaza to be with her mom. And I have no fucking idea if she's alive right now.

This is everyday for me. And I was so used to the world not caring. Up until a few years ago saying you were pro-Palestine would lead to so much hate.

But the world is talking about it now. And I will not stay silent. I will not let misinformation spread. I will not let Israel destroy Palestine's image. I will not let anyone forget about their lives. They were people. They are my people. They are my friends, my teachers, my family.

Go fuck yourself if you think this is me being performative or me showing off my knowledge. Do you fucking know why I have this knowledge???? Why I know so much?? I grew up with this.

I'm literally an Arab. I can't believe I have to fucking say this so many times. I'm not white or whatever. This is literally all I can think about right now. The Arab community (which I'm a part of) in my university are setting up donations, wearing the Palestinian Kuffeyah in solidarity, talking about this whenever and however we can. This is what it means to be Arab. We are not going to shut up about it.

I am watching my region enter a war. I literally live in the Middle East. I am watching people online call my people terrorists, barbaric, subhuman, animals. What do you expect me to do? Watch and pretend that I'm white or some shit?

OH and because you're thinking I'm just now caring

Here's fucking screenshots of my chats with friends.

Just because I've never talked about it here before doesn't mean I've never cared about the issue. You don't know me stop acting like you do.

Fuck everyone who thinks this way. I don't care if you support or follow my account. I will talk about Palestine until my dying breathe. My love for Palestine is ingrained in my DNA. It is the fabric of my soul.

It's free Palestine, until Palestine is fucking free.

[pinksmonkey]

Update on my anti-Byler bestie

Here's the post if you missed it.

First of all, thank you to everyone who shared their favourite Byler evidence, it made me very happy and it was funny sharing it with my friend.

Now, unfortunately my friend cannot be convinced. I'm autistic and have trouble understanding people's intentions and feelings, so I can't tell if he's being fully serious, half serious, or completely unserious, but to me it seems most like half serious. He's strongly in denial and won't really give me a reason as to why, he just says, "No, not happening."

So there's no getting to him, he believes without a doubt that Byler isn't happening (and said he'll start a riot if it does happen, but Idk if he was serious). And he says he's going to find evidence, but his only proof so far has been, "Nooooo." XD

So I've been dealing with that. It's kind of frustrating because I feel like he's not really listening to anything I'm saying, he just denies everything. And I understand sort of because he actually bet me $50 Byler won't happen in season 5 (I didn't bet anything, he just gets to keep the money if he's right). So he doesn't want to admit defeat to that, which is fair, but it was a stupid bet to make in the first place since he didn't have all the information (the proof for Byler).

Additionally, at lunch today we were talking to a girl who's also in our anxiety support class, and I was talking about Byler stuff (Mike's official playlist songs, the way he looks at Will, their flirty scenes in season 4, Mike using the "we're friends" trope, etc.). She agreed with my friend that Byler isn't a thing and said Mike is so straight.

I can argue with them as much as I want but it gets really frustrating and even kind of annoying that they just don't understand all the evidence. I'm just venting here, so absolutely no hate towards people who don't believe Byler is canon, but as someone who cares so deeply about it, it can make me kind of emotional trying to argue that I'm not delusional.

In the end we agreed to disagree, which is fine and valid and I respect that. But with my friend, it's kind of a big deal, because to me Byler is a big deal. I admit I'm obsessed, Byler has been my biggest special interest since I watched season 4 and found out it was a thing. I can't really help it, I'm just so passionate about it and it gets stuck in my mind. You could say I'm hopelessly devoted to Byler, one of my friends online has even said they think it's unhealthy, but how can something that brings me so much joy be wrong?

Ok this has devolved significantly, but what I'm trying to say in this whole rant/vent thing is that yes, I'm very invested in the relationship between fictional characters, because it's important to me. Representation matters, and even though I'm not a gay man, I still love seeing other groups be represented, especially in a show this popular, with a story this deep. The beauty of Byler's story transcends everything.

So it's frustrating trying to argue for something I care so much about. Byler makes me happy, it motivates me, it inspires me. I'm not going to apologize for loving the things I love and being passionate about my interests. Of course I try to be open minded, respect different opinions, and listen to other points of view. If my friend actually had evidence against Byler, I would listen and respond as constructively and respectfully as I can.

Basically, shipping Byler is valid, and not shipping or even being anti-Byler is valid (unless it's just for homophobic reasons, homophobia is not valid). But I love Byler and it does kind of hurt to have something I care about be adamantly denied and torn apart. And you know, as I'm writing this I'm actually empathizing with Milevens. This doesn't just go for Byler, it goes for all ships (as long as they're not messed up obviously), people should be able to enjoy what they enjoy without others trying to tell them why they're wrong.

There's nothing wrong with analyzing Mileven, talking about why it's unhealthy or not going to be endgame, etc. But that should stay in the proper places, we don't need to constantly remind Milevens that they're ship isn't going to end up together. Just let them be happy, and I'd expect them to do the same for us.

Idk how this turned into talking about Milevens and respecting different ships, but it did somehow. Anyway, back to the point, my friend may be wrong about what will happen in season 5, but his beliefs on it are still valid. I just wish we could talk about it in a way that doesn't make me feel bad about shipping Byler and believing it's endgame. Does that make sense?

This isn't that serious or anything, and take everything I said here as just a random vent/rant, I'm just getting out all my thoughts and feelings, because I need to after all the arguing with people today.

If Byler doesn't happen, I'll be sad, but I know I won't be alone because I have my fellow Bylers, my Byler family and community here. We can all be sad together, and support each other. When I feel bad about something, I like to remember this quote:

That's how I feel about Byler not being endgame.

But on a lighter note, I'm pretty sure Byler will end up together, it just makes sense. So yeah, feel free to share any of your thoughts and feelings about this, I'd love to hear them. :)

I just needed to share some Byler positivity at the end because I'm tired of being surrounded by Byler negativity in my class.

Byler rights forever. 🏳️‍🌈

[will80sbyers]

I don't know if you were really asking on your last post but I'm among the people that don't believe in queer Mike in canon (but still ship byler and read fics and enjoy headcanons and etc but can't really post in the tag cause it is not very welcoming of us to say the least). I think seeing the airport scene as a romantic one is only one of the possible interpretations of this scene and of course if byler ends up being canon, it would be the most convincing one (still not the only one though). As I sadly don't think byler will be endgame (basically to me there are more in script and off script reasons to think they won't than to think they will), I interpret the airport scene as yet another sign that Mike is written as a brave, deeply caring, somehow fighting normativity guy, who is just often socially awkward as a result. In other words, I think Mike behaved this way because they haven't seen and spoken to each other in a while, and Mike only got updates through El (about the painting among other things). And because his relationship with Will IS different than his relationship with the other members of the party, but that doesn't make it romantic in nature, Will is his best friend and has a more obviously sensitive temper than Dustin or Lucas. Again, it's of course left to interpretation, but everything is. And whether or not we believe in byler endgame, our interpretation will necessarily somehow reflect it

I respect your opinion, but I think this choice doesn't make any sense as a narrative for Mike unless it's for starting a romantic plot line between them, it's just making him look like an asshole to the public because they didn't even catch the fact that Mike actually called Will, they automatically thought he was calling El even if it's risky for El to use the phone because of the government possibly listening... and like maybe if it was only that scene where he's acting awkward BEFORE they resolve their miscommunication issues I could agree with you... but the fact is that it is not only that scene, Mike keeps acting awkward after they have already talked about them not communicating as much in the past months and they have resolved that in theory...

I think this is a clear sign that Mike must have feelings for Will otherwise the writing and the framing and the direction they gave Finn on how to act doesn't make ANY sense... this scene would be absurd if Mike wasn't feeling love for the words Will is saying about him

the '' Will is different only because they are best friends exactly like the others, but he has a more sensitive temper'' doesn't hold up for me because in season 1 Mike had that conversation with Dustin where he told him he thought of ALL of them in the same exact way, but we know Will has always been different, and their relationship is more intimate than just being best friends... one of them is in love with the other... like, they could never be really ok if Will got rejected, that would keep hurting Will for a long time if not forever and the end of the show would be depressing and unrealistic if Will just ''got over Mike'' randomly after they showed just how deeply he loves him... and Mike this season he expressed out loud that he felt different and like Hawkins was not the same without Will specifically, he didn't even mention him missing his own girlfriend...? I believe this is because Mike has always had romantic feelings towards Will even if he didn't realize it, it's that type of loving without knowing where he always felt like this for Will, but he never considered what those feelings were until recently

plus we have the scene at the end of season 3 where Mike looks back at the byers home to confirm there is something more to the story of Mike and Will from Mike's side <3

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by Mike loving Will back too! 💕

[will80sbyers]

i was reading your bi mike analysis and i have one question (not related to if he is or not lol i don't think it's that important) you mention you believe mike still thinks he likes el romantically dueing the monologue, and my question is, seeing as the popular interpretation of the s3 ending is mike realizing he likes will the way he thought he liked el, what is YOUR interpretation of the scene ? (i'm genuinely asking ♡ i think it's very cool we all have different interpretations of different scenes)

Hello!! 💜

First of all thank you for taking the time to read my analysis, I appreciate it a lot!! 😊

Here's a video with the scenes I'm talking about for reference!

At the moment my personal interpretation of the s3 finale is that Mike is terribly scared of losing the people he loves and here he's starting to realize how heartbroken he's feeling because both El and Will are moving and leaving him behind and he's terrified of their dynamic changing and of losing them both...

I think for the kiss and the I love you he's simply shocked

by the realization that El did hear what he said in the cabin and he's experiencing a sort of freezing response to that knowledge... because he wasn't anticipating her saying something like that to him!

I also think they were super awkward with each other because they didn't know where they stood in their relationship, they probably had not talked about it because they just... Don't talk about stuff often... I mean, they are 14 so I kinda get it because they are just kids playing at relationships and it is super awkward and overwhelming approaching these conversations when you're this young!

But still, even if they are awkward 14 yo it seems to me that in that scene Mike is feeling flustered because he does like her and wants to be cool in her eyes... but we can already see their relationships problems in s4 from that scene alone because Mike is acting like he is mentally telling himself he's an idiot after this thing he says to her and this particular exchange between them

So we can already see how he feels deeply insecure in this relationship because he thinks that to look cool to El and to impress her he has to be more cool than he is, he has to change his character and become super funny and dress better etc etc, he does want to impress her because he does like her and he feels inferior to her, he puts her on a pedestal...

The reason he pretends he doesn't remember what he said was because he didn't want to tell her anymore... because of what Mike told us in s4 himself, he was feeling scared that if he was open with his feelings this would have just made it more difficult for him and more painful when she eventually would look at him and look at who he is and realize he is just a nerd and he's nothing special and she shouldn't like him... Because in his mind it doesn't make sense that El really likes him or even that she loves him... That is why he's shocked!

...

In this scene I think the narrative was focusing on Mike and Will because it was starting out the byler plot line officially and showing us that Mike does feel differently towards Will, he feels more deeply for him.. and he will miss him more than how you miss someone that is only a friend...

...

This is not a realisation that he's gay or queer to me, this is utter heartbreak... It's like he wants to cry here but he's feeling so empty and numb that he can't even do that.

He's just wishing he could go back so that he doesn't lose him from his life...

this whole scene focusing on Mike and then Will in the car and then Mike again, is showing us Mike's deepest fear of things changing and him losing the people he loves... and how losing Will in particular is breaking him down... (because deep down he loves him)

I think this was showing us that Mike is beginning to feel different towards Will and he's afraid of things changing between them and in general...

That's why in s4 he tries to hard to go back to being best friends and why he wants to fix his relationship with El even if he knows it's not how it was before that summer and he started to realize he is changing and feeling weird towards Will...

He wants to stick to the status quo with Will as his best friend and El as his girlfriend...

but the dynamic is changing he is slowly realizing him and El don't work well in s4 and he wasn't sure of wanting to tell El the I love you, he was avoiding it because of the reason he told us... and that is the truth, but that's not the WHOLE truth deep down... even if him as a character right now is confused about what he feels and believes he is in love with her

The whole truth is that he wasn't sure anymore before Will made his speech in the van and made him believe El knows him like that and loves him like he wants her to love him, like she sees him as the heart of the group too and needs him like he feels he needs her... (A LIE BECAUSE THOSE ARE WILLS'S FEELINGS)

So he wasn't sure before that, he was confused and he was thinking about it in his mind and trying to just find the courage to tell her the ily but like he said:

"I just don't believe it."

He didn't believe it was safe to tell El and be vulnerable with her... Who made him believe it was? Will using his own feelings!

Also the rule for Mike in his head is that he shouldn't lie about things this much important... So if he doesn't feel 100% secure about a thing he WILL avoid it... Until he does feel secure

He also at the same time is feeling super weird and awkward with Will in s4 because he already has feelings for him and attraction to him but he doesn't realize it yet consciously why he feels like this... He is acting jealous and feeling weird things that make him look at Will when he's not looking and then panic in the desert lmao

Hope this is clear!! It's a mix of very deep and complicated feelings Mike has for both Will and El...

with El he does like her and he did have infatuation for her but the relationship just doesn't work because of his insecurities and because they are incompatible

with Will he is slowly beginning to realize he does have feelings for him but he's pushing back because he is terrified of change and it's super hard admitting to yourself that you do see your best friend in a different way and you like him in a non straight way especially in the 80s

But all of this is a tangled mess in Mike's head for now, he's not 100% aware of why he does what he does... He's thinking about it and learning new things about himself this season and he's 14 so it's super normal that he doesn't know how he feels for sure yet

Feelings are a mess and when you're bi I think it's even more difficult because he probably thinks well I do like women so I can't like Will like that because I'm not gay...

So yeah, that's it for me!!

Babygirl is confused 😂😂😂

Thank you so much for reading all of this, as always this is my interpretation of the show if you think differently that's ok!! 💞

[will80sbyers]

Honestly it feels like people take most of the things out of context when it comes to Mike's character especially his relationship with El. I've seen many people talk about how Mike is 'disgusted' by El and doesnt like girls making a move on him, but the scenes they show to prove that are taken out of context because when you go back and watch those scenes you realize he enjoys it...? It's obvious Mike had a crush on El and liked her at some point and that's intentionally written that way by the writers. A puppy crush you'd say, it's something also said by the Duffers regarding El/Mike's romance i think.

I totally agree, I think in the end it's a matter of perspective, some people genuinely think that he doesn't like her at all, but I read their scenes to be pretty explicitly written as romantic...

even in s3 when people say he's removing her hands from his face because he's disgusted by her kissing him I think it's not enough to say that to be honest, especially because it happens once and all the other times he's kissing her normally and seems pretty annoyed when Hopper interrupts them... plus it's right before the actor was supposed to stop the kissing by starting to sing and have what, in my opinion, was meant to be a cute moment between them joking around

I think the intention was to show how codependent Mike and El became in those months after jumping in a relationship immediately... and how they kept constantly kissing mainly instead of talking, and this makes Jim uncomfortable and makes him say to Mike to stop seeing her -> Mike lies to El -> El seeks advice from Max starting her journey to independence -> El breaks free from the relationship and puts herself first and starts having a friend that is a girl -> Mike tries to get El back but is shown not having the same deep feelings that he believes he has... etc etc

in my opinion it was all to show that they are not compatible/not endgame

I have read all the "proof that Mike doesn't like girls" and it was not enough to convince me

what is convincing is Mike liking also boys because of how the camera focuses on the hand touch with Will for example and how the parallels are repeated for byler too etc etc

I also see the parallels between Mike x El and Mike x Will as couples, indicative of the fact that the writers wanted to put the relationships in the same category, both being actual romantic possibilities for Mike.... but with one clear difference of Mike & Will being the true love pairing!

other things that are supposedly proof but that to me is out of context is Mike not liking Max, that doesn't take in consideration the fact that he was still fixated on El, he was grieving her and feeling like this new girl was going to replace her in the group and that's what makes him dislike her and not trust her

him saying "you don't even know her" about Max to me proves that he acted very different with El exactly because he had a crush...

and that's also what Lucas implies in s1 that Mike is blinded because he likes El more than in a friend way so he trust her word more than his childhood friends because of that

the crush is what makes him act irrational and want El to be in the party and want to believe her when he can (of course when he sees the actual corpse of Will he can't believe her in that moment, but he usually does believe her or want to)

Also like... not even straight people have crushes for all the girls they see lmao why would bi people have them???

there are also many other things that people take as proof that to me are not really convincing but again, who knows, I may be wrong and he may be gay in the end, even if I don't really see it in the narrative for now I'll keep this option in mind!