#I just... really like the themes of Drakenier

[thesoulshyperrealaslacreatura]

Drakenier: Violence as expression and affirmation - Pt.1

It has become a rather well-known piece of trivia (or at least, well-known within the niche internet circles I flow through) that 2010's Nier Replicant / Gestalt had its overall message thoroughly inspired by well, 9/11 - the discourse that produced it, that came of it, and became it. Although it may not be a direct quote, "to kill someone, you don't have to be out of your mind, you just need to believe you are correct" is a sentiment clearly echoed throughout the game; as the many layers of its central and side conflicts drop alongside the curtains to its second, third (and maybe kind of fourth) playthrough, so does what had, for quite a ways into the game, seemed like a story mostly about finding, nurturing and protecting a community - people to call home.

However, the statement above seems to somewhat conceal-so-as-to-merely-hint-at what I'd argue is a much more complex argument the games lay forth, when looked at as one series. I, myself, have found it difficult in the past to distill both Replicant and the wider series as a whole into one coherent message or thematic frame; partly (and beautifully), because there mustn't be one - this singular reading which eclipses the broad range of experiences that people have come to share with the series - such an idea is preposterously reductive. Still, I think that this mish-mash of "the game is about philosophy and tragedy and nihilism and existentialism and society and humanity and life" and whatnot misses a bit of where the different themes intersect, producing further instances of meaning from the text. I hope to discuss the evolution (were I to sound even more pretentious, I might have used the word genealogy, but I would never stoop to that) of a few central concepts surrounding drakenier's "philosophy of violence" and where they seem to have informed or have been informed by other aspects of the works.

Strap in, because just from writing the introduction I can already tell this is gonna have to come in multiple parts. Hopefully my writing can steer away from boring you to tears throughout all of it.

Spoilers for the whole series!

Part 1: Replicant, and the subjective experience gained from that funky 9/11 fun fact

"Blood is sound, sound is words, and words are power"

This quote, almost a chant from Weiss as the player starts to grasp the gameplay loop of attacking enemies to allow for magical attacks, ties in the game's teaching of that system with what I consider to be the most powerful writing from Replicant (I'm going to refer to it as Replicant for the sake of convenience, obviously Gestalt is included in that). And it is deeply tied to what Taro himself has credited as a major source of inspiration for Replicant in relation to his previous game, Drakengard.

In some ways, Nier Replicant isn't introducing a new, foreign idea over the original Drakengard, so much as bringing out new elements from within its predecessors' critiques of the gaming landscape. Though that only really becomes clear by taking future foresights the series would reach into account; this is the point at which it becomes prudent to ask ourselves one question - how might the game's design regulate the player's interaction with the game world? (A question that, if you're at all even familiar with Drakengard, you probably already know the answer to)

From this, we can extrapolate a lot of meaning from how the original Drakengard was conceived: a game about violence, from the perspective of people who were so immersed in their own awfulness and the general precarity of their world that they cannot enact anything but that same violence. And it is that violence which comes to define them.

I'd also like to do the pedantic thing and bring up the fact that violence can be thought of as more than just physical harm, but also in terms of violation. In that sense, when I claim that Drakengard's characters are defined by violence, I mean it in that their reduction of other people to objects serves as an exertion of themselves - the Dynasty Warriors inspired combat of cleansing battlefields as the only win state reflects back at Caim as his only method of building an identity of his own, one based on strength demonstrated from conquering his enemies. You might find that these 'enemies' are violated the moment they're placed into the game as props that sustain its overall narrative.

In fact, this 'loss of personhood as self-affirmation' theme reverberates into another key factor of the game's story: pacts. They explicitly deprive humans of something of themselves - their ability to communicate, to see, to age, to have hair (sure????) -, and reduces both parties into one shared essence, yet it is what permits its characters to have strength through which they find themselves as able to inflict that dehumanization onto others. Dehumanization becomes their characterization, both from the audience's perspective as well as in-world.

Following that, Nier Replicant does not dispute that destruction of the other simultaneously inflicts upon the self both corruption and affirmation. If anything, it only takes measures to strengthen that sentiment, in light of how the added theme of perspective brings forth a need to now more closely study the subjective experience of perpetrating violence. Thus:

"Blood is sound, sound is words, and words are power"

The gameplay system I've anchored this analysis to comes into play; attacking your enemies gives you the literal strength to continue your offense, by design - ridding them of their life force, their blood, perpetuates the narrative, the words being built, the sealed verses of a prophecy you've set for yourself: that of being a hero to your sister/daughter, friends and general community. This even extends to the lyrics of Ashes of Dreams:

"Are we the plaything of fiends or merely the dreams that we're telling ourselves?"

Though we shouldn't forget that Weiss' comment takes the form of X=Y=Z=W, and it seems I've neglected the 'sound' part of the sentence. As I was writing this, my brain immediately made the association between that and Drakengard 3's focus on the power of Song, which, in fairness, definitely was made with the rest of the series in mind - but, in this instance, that sounds like a bit of a lucky coincidence. Still, what the concept of sound brings to the statement doesn't seem too far off from what meaning could be made at a bit more of a general, rudimentary level, that being: our lifeforce (blood) translates into our ability to be heard (sound), thus effectively giving us narratives about the world around us (words), which gives our actions direction, purpose (power).

From that, we can take a closer look into a lot of different aspects of the game. After all, the reason I proclaimed this piece of writing to be so powerful isn't really because I could - and did - stretch its interpretation to its fullest, but also from the way it manifests itself around the struggles of various characters, while being tied to the game's overall systems and world. Emil receding into his identity as a weapon in order to redirect what he sees as his curse onto those who seek to harm his friends - leading to his sacrifice; Weiss, who also goes on to sacrifice himself, does so in the name of putting an end to this now 5-year mission, grown into his own center of existence; Louise, perhaps reacting to the world around her, saw humanity as something to claim from others, and faced erasure upon perceiving herself as incapable of acquiring it. For better or for worse, the moral codes characters create from their own intentions of living become rigid scripts to follow as self-fulfilling prophecies of their own identities.

We can see that, ultimately, characters across both games tend to follow journeys with a general structure of: bleak circumstances > feeling of powerlessness > violence as a misguided means of reclaiming the power to define oneself > entrenchment in violence becomes overbearing, coming to annihilate the very self which sought to instigate it. From the first Drakengard to the first Nier, this hasn't changed a bit. What changed is a distinct awareness in how the self, or what we might call "us" stands in conflict with the generalized other, "them", and where it uses morality as a catalyst for smoothing out the uncomfortable edges of that conflict.

In fact, the annihilation of the self as, paradoxically, an act of self-affirmation is the very core of ending D for Replicant. And this is, partly, where the inciting 9/11 quote comes into play - given our newfound empathetic understanding of where violence comes from, how do we process it? How do we make sense of it? From the way the world is established, the very act of surviving, for both replicants and gestalts, is somewhat tainted as immoral, and predicated on the erasure of an 'other'. It leaves room for later material to find itself more at ease with this question (and those circle back nicely to ending E from the new version, as well). For now, most of what the game feels comfortable in concluding comes from Kainé, who stands in contrast with most characters by fully rejecting the notion of being a moral agent throughout the entire story, yet the game still offers us the chance to save her - it, mirroring the protagonist, relentlessly believes in her. Not even that "she can be better", whatever better might mean, just that "she can be".

And obviously, finally, we can extrapolate plenty of social commentary from this. Playing off of the thematic material introduced in Automata, we could argue that Replicant's plot is, in retrospect, about slowly building up to the depiction of a certain "Death of God" - which, in nietzschean terms, is not merely society straying from religiosity, but represents an irreparable shattering in the very idea of a centralizing narrative that everyone could subscribe to and fit within. So ends humanity, not just as a species, but as a concept; no longer are people able to identify themselves as containing some unified essence of 'humanity', recognizing the other as a complete self in its own right, as they retreat into the violence that was inflicted against them, which they inflict back at the world - to have your totality reduced to a role in a play that the winner gets to write. And in that sense, I'd argue it captures specific facets of a post-9/11 climate pretty well.

Anyway, gonna make a separate post that's just about Drakengard 3, and then one that's just about Automata, but at a later time!

also, this thesis becomes more relevant when the time comes to analyze automata, but it was still helpful in having me think through the previous games, so I'll drop it here as a reference for now, and will mention it more loudly once we come to specific sections later (not about to be the next target for hbomberguy lmao): http://dspace.library.uvic.ca/handle/1828/14525

Cool that there are people writing about it!! Thank you Xinlyu Tan, the goat!!! Would love to go through more material, but I'm writing this for fun on the side... hope anyone reading this has enough fun with it to go looking for more on their own, go extend the discussion further, blah blah blah. Also hope that I make any sort of vaguely coherent point. And, lastly, I hope you enjoy yourself!

[astralartefact]

NieR Reincarnation The People and the World Amber Spoiler Post & Theory Hour

Mama on Mama on Mama on Mama in this one. And I'm going to look a little bit too deep into that. Far too deep actually.

What can I say. They did a good job with the shitty gacha game. I'm so sorry, but I am once again validated in my opinion that this is the best NieR writing right behind YoRHa:Dark Apocalypse. It's just. Chef's Kiss.

And sure, I still prefer Sun/Moon over People/World as a story since that one just managed to weave the themes so well with the stories and everything whereas this one has certain moments where it doesn't really line up with stuff it has already established (some/many of the stories kind of seem to disregard parts of their hidden/ex stories which feels weird, also where are hina and yuzuki in all of this as rogue cage wanderers, i have a feeling they're not going to address them at all (which imo would be fine but kind of disappointing)), but we're finally getting the lore payoff we know to expect from Drakenier and it feels so good.

And you know, I did notice that all the seasons so far were in two distinct parts that lined up with their name - and as this was obviously the The People part I was wondering before playing this morning what the The World part would be about. But it didn't even occur to me that we could be going to the "Real World"... (Put a Pin in that)

But let's get into it.

Mama meets Accord (who I'm sure somebody has called mommy before)

I mean at this point we know she's coming - we just don't know when and how. I do wonder if these more and more overt mentions of her might be setup for the next NieR/DoD4 because I feel like Accord as a character would be prime real estate for the new big game, but of course it would also make perfect sense for her to show up here, she already has an established presence in the Cage - and I mean she could just do both!

It's interesting to note btw that the coffer that Yudil's story explicitly points out has recently appeared in the most recent Bakuken stage play (the one that's called Finale even though it's not the final one) where a portuguese merchant (The Cathedral City is on the Iberian Peninsula) called Michael (you know, like the Dragon) had it. Of course, they might also just have reused the prop since they made one for the YoRHa stage play Accord appeared in...

Mama meets Mother

She's giving Mother and she's back with a vengeance rhythm game. Amazing. Tens across the board. I love her fascinator head piece.

As the Mother Expert that I call myself I have to point out some things here:

a) What exactly is Mother Mourning? The Watchers have up until now only been described as motivated by a fervent hate of Humanity and anger - the Gods want to claw themselves free of their humanity-imposed seals and devour the world - so why is this version explicitly shown as sad? Her battle dialogue also kind of sounds... betrayed in a way? "Why Protect People? Destroy" and "Our objective. Why?" seem to hint that maybe Mama (points right at the name) was in with Mother this whole time but has now turned against her. And it makes me wonder if the Cage is a way for humanity to enslave the gods they sealed for profit...

But also, given recent Developments in SinoAlice JP's Ending Arc, there's likely something else in the Cage that the Mourning Mother could be talking to. Maybe the thing we saw in that one cutscene is actually protecting humanity?

b) With some of that already in mind I was thinking about her pose and was trying to find some connection to the dance of her Intoner version in the DoD3 Final Boss when it occured to me in a one-two punch: She's shackled. The Cage is for Her. She's what is Caged. And doesn't that sound like a seal that keeps a certain Round Egg at bay that I have an exciting theory for-

Tangent: Mama meets my Round Egg Theory

okay so strap in because it's time to bring up the thing I bring up every chance I get!

We know there's a connection between the Memory Tree and the Moon Server Data through two things:

a) In the Replicant Remaster's new Ending Kainé goes into the Memory Tree's Data to bring Nier back - which of course means that the Memory Tree contains Nier's data. This is important because

b) In YoRHa:Dark Apocalypse (My Love <3) the Red Girls have a Seed (we'll get back to that in a second) - and out of that Seed grows a Tower that contains "Ego Collectives" of People, which is basically the collection of memories that makes up one person.

Now I know that everyone just handwaved that away as a way to have cheap Replicant references as the first two bosses with the Remaster coming up but lol wouldn't that be easy, did you forget who you're dealing with? Because the exact two bosses used (Knave of Hearts and Hänsel and Gretel) means there's only one person this Ego Collective could belong to: Nier, because only he fought Hänsel and Gretel. (let's ignore that Weiss was there too bc that would be a dumb!!! this is much more fun bc of the implications!!!)

And I'm positive that this was intentional because in the remaster ending - in a scene that's eerily similar to the fight in Tower at Paradigm's Breach - Kainé only fights her memory of Gretel without Hänsel, so they knew.

Why does that matter? It doesn't really, I just wanted to bring it up as a little fun fact, but what does matter is that Y:DA establishes that whatever that Seed the Red Girls have recreated is, it also contains all the memories from the Memory Tree, because that's where those memories were recorded. And they were recreating it, which implies there was a basis to recreate. And that was always the big future overarching NieR plot thread that Y:DA left me with - sure, we know this is where it all ends, the Watchers are over now and this time forever through collaboration and power of friendship - but how did we even get here? How did the Red Girls get a Seed to recreate?

And now it fits right in with what's happening, especially now that we know what exactly the Moon Server can do:

The Moon Server/The Cage can peer into different universes - we know that since at least Hina and Yuzuki (Yuzuki knows Reinkane exists as a game but also their EX stories) - but as far as we know the Seeds only exist in Drakengard's Universe. So why do the Red Girls/The Watchers/The Mourning Mother want to get into the Moon Server/Cage so Bad? (It was even sort of highlighted in the Automata Anime where Adam transformed into a giant Reincarnation Mob - implying really hard that the Red Girls/Logic Virus is indeed behind the attacks on the Cage) Well, maybe it's because they want the Round Egg, because they have been separated ever since DoD1's Final Boss and they need it to Dark Apocalypse.

Before this chapter I thought that the entire Memory Tree might have been built from Seeds in the first place and that's why the Red Girls want into the Moon Server to get a basis to copy - I thought it would make sense that humanity somehow got that dimension-crossing technology needed for it out of a Seed - but that would require the NieR world to have Seeds to use for that and we know next to nothing about them so I just kept it in the back of my mind until something else comes along to strengthen it. I also didn't want to base too much on the cross-over one, even if I personally really don't understand why people are so hesitant to call it canon, it's definitely canon, it's one of the few things Yoko Taro is directly credited to have written the past few years and he literally always writes stuff that right away retcons things, so even if it changes details with Automata he has done the exact same thing multiple times now. ("It's not DoD3's Ending A that leads to DoD1, it's the version of Ending A in this specific novella that's basically the same except for one small thing.")

But you know what other tangentially related thing I can bring up that you won't believe I will stuff into this theory? Why yes, It's Yuki Wada's Breakout Hit Voice of Cards: Forsaken Maiden. And fair warning, this is where it gets entirely unfounded. And also spoilers for that game's ending.

I have the long and well-documented theory that the Spirits from VoC:FM might be the Watchers. In that game Maidens need to sacrifice themselves to the Gods so they 'keep humanity save' in return - but it ends with Laty (the female MC) going into an eternal slumber to sort of 'trap' the gods in her everlasting dream so humanity is save without them. And because I always found that very reminiscent of Drakengard 1's Goddesses I theorized that VoC:FM might have been the folkloric 'inception story' of that system, humanity just reiterated on the mechanics of it so it's spread over multiple people instead of one so nobody has to go to sleep forever.

So with that as an foundational thought, what if humanity did that again? What if they extended it again on more people so fewer people have the sort of responsibility Laty or Furiae had? What if they didn't only extend it to a finite number of people - what if they extended it to every human in every dimension that ever experienced any form of prolonged misery (or whatever else the requirements are to end up in the cage lol)

So what if the Cage is the Seal? What if keeping the Seeds locked up is the purpose of the Cage? What if the Cage is a Cage?

And if the Cage is just NieR's Goddess Seals then the Watchers have a really good reason to get in there: The exact same reason as in Drakengard 1.

But I'm not done. Because what if Mama didn't know that. What if Mama just knew there's a server on the moon and basically every single person ever is trapped in it, eternally doomed to relive the most horrible pain and suffering imaginable for some reason - and some figure, a mother figure if you will, told her she could fix their suffering. That she could change the system for the better by giving them hope and respite by giving them an afterlife. But that was a lie. The figure just wanted her to weaken the system built on sin and suffering so she could break through it and reach the Seeds.

What if Mama (points at the name) realised she was tricked by Mother and is now trying to fix her mistakes? And that's why Mother is Mourning, because she betrayed her?

Don't think so. Mama didn't seem all that "remorseful". But maybe something along those lines though.

Depending on SinoAlice JP's ending whatever other being the Library turns out to be might also be involved - maybe the Library is a god that turned away from the Watchers to help humanity and the Cage is instead a way to protect the being that is the Library which in turn protects humanity... That would be a full circle moment to VoC:FM too...

Either way I'm so stoked to find out what's really happening!!!

Mama meets Mama in the Real World

Already talked alot about Mama, but let's just all applaud ourselves for reading the room! We did it! We knew!

Just as theorized she was 10H all along! Probably should go reread her story to see if it still lines up with what I theorized above... And she's pretty. And has almost the same haircut as Hina and Marie. Hmm. Maybe they should have chosen one of the other Marie designs.

(Small correction: I read that last scene wrong, seems like Mama isn't 10H but Pod 006 - but since the character we're getting is 10H I'll still say we were right :3 ...and yeah, we do control the pod in that scene, makes sense, don't know why I went straight to Mama has to be 10H)

What I'm actually more interested in though is where we're going with this. Like what can she even do in the "Real World", doesn't 10H die constantly in her story for disobedience? So she can't be allowed to do all of this, right? I do think a "We rebuild the Cage on Hopes and Dreams" is in order, but the way to get there... ah! Look, it's the Pin I made you keep in mind!

What if they don't go to that Real World. What if they go to our Real World? Hina & Yuzuki - who came from our or at least another Real World - are notably absent from this arc. And that could just be because the true ending being optional makes things harder for the devs to write around and they want the spotlight off of them bc they were the main characters, but still: I would love a chapter or even just a scene of their perspective of what happens to the Cage. I mean what happens to them now that the Cage falls apart? Could Dark Mama and Papa save them just like Mama did with the others? Do we maybe even meet Dark Mama's and Papa's real forms?

But there's another character that immediately comes to my mind when we talk about "the Real World". And it's because of a throwaway line that I never see anybody bring up... mainly because nobody likes Y:DA.

In her final letter to Konogg, Anogg explains that at some point she visited another world (likely when she fell into the Pseudo-Seed) and in doing so she learned that both her and the world are constructs - which implies she knows that a Real World exists from which this world was created. And sure, that could have been a meta-joke about haha video game. But her constructed self also displays several similarities to moments in Noelle's Chapter - which came out vaguely around the same time - and now all of this lines up with what's happening in the Cage. So yeah. What if the ending scene is her emerging from the Cage to save Konogg just like these characters have done this entire arc? All I have to say is #AnoggForReincarnation. She would be perfect. Do it.

[irregularjohnnywiggins]

talk about iron will's importance. now

Iron Will's importance to the series is kinda threefold, tbh.

On one level, it's clearly a reference to the Dragonslayer of Berserk fame, and therefore one of Taro's clear inspirations for especially the first Drakengard, where it appears as Hymir's Finger*.

Consequently, it's also tied in to Caim as the 'discount Guts' of the Drakenier universe***, which is extremely important to the events of Nier. See, I may be wrong about this, but aside from the Nameless Blade you get at the start, Iron Will is I think the only weapon the game... gives you? Like, there's weapons you get in the course of the story, but Iron Will is the only weapon the game itself hands you in a cutscene, and as such is kinda... by necessity relevant? Like, active thought had to go into handing you that sword at that point in the story, and considering that this is very early into Act II of the game, where our protagonist takes a darker turn along with the rest of the story... well, I may be too far up Mr. Yoko's thematical backside (please see next paragraph for evidence of that), but... I don't think it's an accident that you get given a weapon so closely associated with Caim at this point in the story, especially when the conversation immediately following Iron Will's completion ends with Nier resolving to help Gideon's mad quest for revenge purely because he gets to kill a single Shade at the end of it.

On a level deeper than even that load of nonsense, the evolution of the Iron Will as a weapon kinda mirrors the evolution of the series itself? As presented in Drakengard 1, the weapon story is about the weight of death, with the unsettling implication at the end that perhaps the sword has found a wielder who is unconcerned with death, a perfect microcosm of Taro's then-philosophy of 'you have to be pretty fucked up to kill people'. This evolves down to Nier, where the sword begins by boasting of the people it kills, but in the final part of the story admits that it dreams of things beyond its status as a weapon of slaughter. Then Drakengard 3 portrays it as a thing that despises its own existence as a weapon, consumed by bloodshed and longing for something it cannot have - kinda like Zero, eh? And finally**** Nier Automata, where the Iron Will is rusted, useless and abandoned, but dug up regardless to engage in unceasing pointless war, over and over again. That's the inherent advantage of the Iron Will, I think - it allows Taro to present the theme of the games in microcosm, because the weapon itself does not need more explanation than 'Dragonslayer at Home'.

Soo... yeah. I think the Iron Will is really important to the themes of Drakenier, and I'm really exited to kill all of humanity wielding it this time around the Replicant train.

*whose name, incidentally, plays into the 'reverse religious morality' thing that Drakengard 1 has going on thematically - in much the same way that the final two routes are the literal Red Dragon of the Book of Revelations fighting the literal angels of heaven alongside a man named after a literal demon, you do it wielding a sword named after what might be interpreted as either the creator god or the father of evil from Norse Mythology.**

**Which, in a weird way, also plays back into the Berserk influence - Guts in that series is fighting against something called The God-Hand, after all, but we're not here to get into Berserk right now.

***I don't know for sure if it's the sword Caim uses in Drakengard 2 - looking at the video of his arrival now I can't tell if it's Broken Iron or his own personal sword - but honestly it feels like it should be Broken Iron, so I'm counting it.

****I know what the DOD2 and Reincarnation stories say, but Drakengard 2's is about as bland as everything else about that game, and Reincarnation has the inherent problem of being a LiiiiVe SeeeRvICE, so you can't easily sum up the themes of every single story in it.

[noxtivagus]

ffxv ost is still one of my favs mwah mwah 🤍

[toskarin]

overall I think Automata has one of the weaker soundtracks in DrakeNieR overall, but End of the Unknown and Dependent Weakling are weirdly enough some of my favorite themes in the series

honestly I might just really like Adam and Eve's motifs

[thesoulshyperrealaslacreatura]

you know, drakenier lore never really scratched the conspiratorial itch THAT hard for me - learning about how the games and side material are connected didn't really give me the vibe that every piece of it was/is preplanned years in advance, because the connections can honestly be kind of loose? I think what allows the series to get away with it is just being very aware of the ideas it's exploring, so even if a new lore drop might technically come out of nowhere and seem like a strange addition from a pure mechanical level (the series loops now, Accord just exists now, the characters are singularities now), things are usually tied together in ways that resonate with the themes in what ends up feeling more like especially interesting improv.

Like, obviously Drakengard 3 is the start of the timeline - Drakengard 3 is about the way internal and external hatred feed into each other until the point of collapse! Of course the timeline would reset at Automata - Automata is the game about the performance and reenacting of humanity coming to shape and perpetuate what humanity ends up being! Do I think either of these were actually decided all the way back in DoD 1's development? Honestly, no! I just think the series understands itself well enough to roll with it (which is equally as impressive, by the way).

[astralartefact]

Hello, wanted to ask your opinion on the theory I've seen pop around that Noelle and her sisters are the basis for the Attack type androids that Yorha makes

My long standing theory was that she's one of the dragon weapons that are mentioned in some of the timeline nitty-gritty. I actually already wrote a little bit about my thoughts about this before (here) since there is some stuff in YoRHa Dark Apocalypse that hints at some bigger connection - but that was when her chapter first came out so it's a little bit out of date

But inspired by your ask I took a look around her new story stuff on nierrein.guide a little bit - and I found out that Recollection of Dusk actually has stories like the ex stories and Noelle's has just released like a week ago.

My findings:

In short: Kind of. A little bit. In a little bit longer: What the fuck

(spoilers below the cut for like everything, i go into a little bit too much detail here)

Read the Recollections of Dusk story, it's wild (and as always the art is beautiful... the colors they use for the final one? amazing. best art design in all of gaming)

So Noelle is actually a surviving human (probably a clone) that androids found frozen in cryostatis and then modified to turn her into a weapon who is also now able to turn into a red eyed dragon beast person whenever her sister who remains in her mind (probably the original human noelle was cloned from) makes her lose control in order to enact eternal vengeance against the world that did this to her(*put a pin in this).

She is also continually hunted by defense androids that are programmed to kill her ever since she left the research facility - and since they do eventually catch and kill her, it's unlikely that she is a 'prototype YoRHa model' in the sense we would probably think of. Doesn't mean that the androids working on her didn't use their research to develop the defense androids into the YoRHa models (the focus on (passing on) memories that is part of the story has big YoRHa black box vibes to me), but especially since she wasn't even an android to begin with I would call her more of a cousin or aunt to YoRHa rather than a straightforward "this is the next step".

It also basically confirms that she is indeed one of the dragon weapons. It would fit right into that spot in the timeline since humans are dead but androids exist (also Ex & RoD Noelle wear very similar coats to Ex Yuzuki and Hina's Hamelin coats and if I remember correctly Hamelin were involved in creating the dragon weapons) and in one of the RoD story chapters she drives through a canyon - which kind of implies North America to me - which is where the Kingdom of Night is - which is where the dragon weapons are. The only thing missing is the mention of Machine Lifeforms or the Aliens to really solidify it.

There is also something going on with the YoRHa Dark Apocalypse stuff I pointed out in my old post and the Seed of Resurrection Copy from there. I haven't really formulated a full theory yet, but it's likely that Noelle's dragon stuff and cloning comes from a (Pseudo-)Seed.

Now, to return to the point about Noelle's sister in her brain - this actually is also touching on another theory I have, but this time not a lore theory but more of an interpretation theory:

Does Drakenier have an overarching bad guy? The answer is of course yes, the motherbeast awaits freedom not really in a straightforward way, but if we do look at a common theme then maybe we could point out that there are a lot of evil red eyes of mind control in Drakenier.

But Yoko Taro games are always about something. Did you know DoD 1 came out on 9/11 and then Replicant, which is about 9/11, references DoD 1 in place of 9/11? They always have a point - so surely if there is an overarching thing coming back all the time it has to be a symbol for something, right?

The Red Eyes Disease in DoD 1, the Logic Virus, the Legion's Red Eye (which we saw with Yuzuki's Ex story) and now Red Eyed Noelle all are characterized as a manipulation of a human through hatred of the world/society as it currently presents itself. Basically every time a character gets to a point where they just really feel slighted and turn against the world their eyes turn red.

I think - and this is just a longwinded explanation to get to a "duh." level conclusion - that Red Eyes are Fascism.

I had to think about it again since Noelle's influence of her sister that makes her lose control was also mainly rooted in nostalgia (something the story specifically points out) and I remembered that i read somewhere that fascism is also very rooted in that (a 'return to a better time' sort of thing) - it just all fits together =v=

Anyways. Sorry for the ramble and for bringing in topics you did not ask about. But thanks for accidentally making me go on this journey! And thanks for being interested in my thoughts on this kind of stuff :3

[astrxealis]

not sure how long i've had this theme ngl but i might change to one of zero soon >.<