#I still like some of the female characters like Nynaeve is great. love her. I liked Lanfear and Moiraine a lot too

[the-hype-dragon]

thinking about plunging into rereading WoT, I think I made it about halfway before I gave up

[halcyon-autumn]

I’ve been thinking lately about the romances in the wheel of time books. RJ gets a lot of (deserved) flack for the romances in his books, but I do think there’s some stuff I really like that I don’t always see in fantasy, especially in the 90s when RJ was writing. Massive book spoilers under the cut

Okay so for all that RJ was Not Good at writing romance build up (Egwene/Gawyn, Nynaeve/Lan, and Thom/Moiraine as maybe the crowning example) I absolutely LOVE how he wrote female characters who were 1.) deeply in love and 2.) primarily motivated by things that had nothing to do with their romantic partner.

Elayne falls rapidly in love with Rand in book 4, and then proceeds to have a bunch of arcs that have little to nothing to do with Rand - hunting the Black Ajah in Tanchico, solving fantasy global warming with the Bowl of Winds, and taking the throne of Andor. Even though Rand tried to “give” the throne to Elayne (which pisses her off), she still has to struggle for it and overcome significant hurdles. Nynaeve’s whole plot of learning to break her block while maintaining her passion and rejecting Aes Sedai serenity has nothing to do with Lan. Same with Egwene, Aviendha, Moiraine, Tuon, and even Suian (and personally the Suian/Garreth Byrne relationships is one of my least favorite relationships in the series).

It’s so refreshing! I devoured book after book as a kid in the 90s and early 00s and the romances were usually SO central especially for the female characters. Even when reading the books, I remember being 14 and going “shouldn’t Elayne be with Rand somehow? Shouldn’t he be helping her take the throne?” Simply because that’s what I was used to. Think of how much weaker the story and the characters would have been!

The crowning example is in aMoL (which I know was written by Sanderson, but I feel like RJ laid enough groundwork and precedent that he still gets a bit of credit) when Rand proposes the Dragon’s Peace and both Aviendha and Elayne have BIG criticisms of what Rand tried to do. They love him! They worry about how it will affect their relationships with him! But their devotion and responsibility to their own people trumps their romantic ties and the narrative *doesn’t punish them for it.* It’s a great scene and one of my favorite Sanderson chapters in the books.

Anyway, I was just thinking how interesting it was that the thing I like least and the thing I like most about RJ’s romances both come from his focus on individual character motivations over his focus on romance.

[onaperduamedee]

Notes on The Dragon Reborn

I went almost straight from The Great Hunt, but never edited my notes. As I am jumping in The Shadows Rising immediately after, I felt the need to clean up my impressions if only to come back to them later.

Full spoilers for The Dragon Reborn under the cut :

Also Perrin arguing with Moiraine that Rand knows what he is doing the day after Rand accidentally caused an earthquake that hurt people and destroyed buildings.

Moiraine: states facts about Rand being both dangerous and extremely vulnerable, is straightforward about her being only here to keep him alive for the last battle

Perrin: this is your fault, you meddlesome hussy, what are you trying to do with him, stop lying, stop manipulating, just be niceee

Me: ????

Regarding this tension between Moiraine and the boys, I wish I understood better the sexist kool-aid the three boys drank, because otherwise I like their POVs and arcs, but every time they so much think about Moiraine or Aes sedai it devolves into resentful post-feminist paranoia. However, their behavior is consistent with the defiance some male students had toward female teachers in High School: they would aggressively challenge their authority, but never with male teachers, even with the ones who were notoriously lax. So it's something RJ really nailed here, even if it can be exhausting to read.

The running gag of Nynaeve having to get angry to heal people or channel is comical, but could have major unwanted implications in the show.

The EF5 really are sharing a single wandering brain cell with Elayne. They are impulsive and reckless to the point of angering Verin, of all people. I do feel this is a very strong argument in favour of Nynaeve and Egwene being ta'veren too: they have such a talent for pandemonium, all of them. The trail of chaos that Rand was leaving behind wasn't that different from Mat, Nynaeve and Egwene's path, although on a different scale.

Siuan… I swear her mind is a kink at this point: she's so sharp and commanding. I am sorry Nynaeve and Egwene, you must be straight, because I would have been on my knees in the gayest sense during the scene where Siuan recruited them against the Black Ajah. I have never been more attracted to a fictional character as I am with SIuan in those scenes.

I do understand her reasoning when it comes to hunting the Black Ajahs (and it reinforces the parallel with young Moiraine and Siuan in New Spring), but Egwene is too damn young to be dragged into this. Also, it makes me a little disappointed we're never going to see them really study as Accepted.

Absolutely obsessed with Perrin prattling in front of Faile and an innkeeper and then cursing Moiraine for not telling him enough. Amazing.

I adore her, by the way

Moiraine: is aware of the general public perception of Aes Sedai, gets repeatedly cursed at by Perrin for not being trustworthy, has Lan not trusting her anymore because of the bond

Also Moiraine: doesn't lift a finger to appear less suspicious, cryptic or uncaring

Perrin walking in on Moiraine half-naked and then having a little bit of a case of MILF panic was weird, but still not as disturbing as the entire contingent of Aes Sedai leering over Rand and the boys in early TGH.

I am at a point where I love Nynaeve so much more than Lan, to say nothing of interest. I hope it gets better because he is inextricable from my two favourite characters. And I do wish Nynaeve wasn't taking love advice from two sixteen-year-old ta'veren-struck lovebirds.

Egwene snapping at Nynaeve about her manipulating as well as Moiraine and Elayne slapping her, while Elayne has spent months with someone as blunt as Nynaeve… After New Spring and TEotW, I remember complaining about Jordan writing women as petty in a way that feels a tad sexist. With women so far, disagreement devolves too often into cattiness. Watsonian hat on, I absolutely see why this scene happens (Egwene’s trauma that gets triggered by Nynaeve’s authority, Elayne who’s been dealing with Nyn and Egwene for weeks, the Forsaken’s influence), but with a Doylist hat on, it’s merely another instance of the books being Like That™ about gender.

It's implied Moiraine did some pretty impressive sleuthing this book and it's so frustrating that we only get the aftermath. How did she know Sammael was in Illian incognito, about Be'lal in Tear? Why was Lan so afraid for her, since she wasn't going to kill Sammael anyway? Why did she have to go alone? TELL ME

The Wild Hunt after Perrin and Moiraine’s group getting balefired was such a striking scene. I hope the show keeps that scene.

Am intrigued by the geographic progress of the characters. With the Perrin and Moiraine group, it's straight-forward enough, but with Mat, Thom, Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne, there is a lot of going somewhere to get information to go somewhere else and yeah, although it feels realistic, it's a tad confounding. Not necessarily bad, but striking enough that I wonder if it's supposed to call back to a circular progression. 

Absolutely in love with the circularity of the girls, more specifically Nynaeve, being convinced they can rely on their strength in the One Power to defeat their enemies and then being obliterated the moment they face Black Ajahs because yeah, Verin was right, there's a reason they cannot use their power like that. No matter how strong, they shouldn't want to hurt people this way and Darkfriends, particularly the Black Ajahs, will always play dirty.

Jabs at Perrin and the girls aside, I believe this may be an underlying theme of the book: the belief that honesty equals knowledge, and recognition of lack of knowledge equals dishonesty. It's particularly blatant in Perrin and Moiraine's dynamic, where Moiraine keeps repeating she doesn't know, doesn't understand yet, and Perrin cannot see it as anything but duplicity, while his straightforwardness must mean he knows better. And conversely, there is a reason why the moment Nynaeve offers a magistral demonstration of knowledge - her Wisdom trade, mind you - it's immediately followed by a comparison to Aes Sedai and accusations of hypocrisy by Egwene.

It's a nice exploration of growing up too, because as I entered adulthood I expected older people to know all the answers and just give them to me. And here, Moiraine, Siuan, Thom, Verin… All of them are trapped in circumstances of their own, hindered by their lack of knowledge. The EF5 get angry at them, even when they find themselves in circumstances they can't control and flail through inexperience. Growing up and taking responsibility for your place in the world means understanding there is no universal answer and the work is never done: power, knowledge, luck - they aren't a panacea, especially when fighting against the end of the world. If you've ever felt utterly hopeless before events beyond your control - pandemic, war, climate crisis, late-stage capitalism, rise is fascism and white supremacy - it's a familiar sentiment.

From the fandom's perception of the Forsaken, I was skeptical about the Forsaken being goofy because the concept is really cool in theory. The fandom was absolutely right and the Forsaken are goofy in the best of ways. They remind me of Grand Guignol theatre, which was a famous French theatre in the first half of the XX c. specializing in gory, over-the-top and dark plays. It has become a term to refer to work of fiction that's melodramatic and horrific, often verging on ridiculous. I get a kick out of such camp characters.

By the light, the payoff for Egwene's multiple ventures in the dream world was extremely satisfying. I am taking back all my reservations about Tel'aran'rhiod. I still could do with fewer dream sequences overall.

On that, Perrin's hunt for Faile in Tel'aran'rhiod felt redundant, even if the narrative lays the groundwork. And I am not fond of Perrin, and Mat, and Lan being deadset on rescuing the women.

I say that and then Lan yet again does not do much to save Moiraine from being obliterated in battle and Moiraine does the saving when it comes to Rand. So there's that.

And, oh, Faile? Love at first sight on my end. I want her to be played by Erin Wu.

Everything in Tear filled me with Joy and not only because everyone was reminded of Siuan. Jordan is really good with worldbuilding. The Wisdom betraying the girls, the Aiel, the Black Ajahs, the Forsaken trying to trap Moiraine, Mat running around with hunters and gleemen... It's too much, but in the most enjoyable manner, like carnival or a Doctor Who finale. Parts of it are delicious slices of cloak and dagger, others pure esoteric gothic-ish nightmare.

If I had a nickel every time Moiraine shields Rand from a Forsaken and then gets obliterated before the final battle while Nynaeve and Egwene are running around and Mat is hiding, I would have two nickels, which isn’t much but it’s funny it happened twice.

So far, this book is the one I enjoyed the most. The pacing is miles better than the first two. The treatment of the different plots is much more satisfying and equal, which goes a long way to improve the rhythm. Rand is almost completely absent from this book, which is an interesting choice given what he goes through, but more on that in another post because it is a very deliberate shift in POV.

Although I still maintain the middle part is meandering, it's thoroughly jolly meandering, like the kind of adventure you could get in Alexandre Dumas' serialized novels. There is so much tension between the characters, but it's mostly compelling tension for now, coming from people being flawed and foolish and human. The final battle is again an explosion of chaos and barely adaptable to the screen as it is, but SO BLOODY ENJOYABLE. At moments the writing veers into straight-up Symbolism and Surrealism, particularly with the emphasis on dreams, and it's often messy but the result is strangely compelling. Like, if the writing stays on this level and above for the whole series, I will be more than content.

[choking-on-roses]

)Rules: List your 10 favorite female characters from 10 different fandoms and tag 10 people

thanks for the tag, @theshinsun! This is so difficult omg. I spent a long time thinking about these and it’s still really hard...mostly because I’ve just kind of been floating in the ether between fandoms for the past couple of years.

1. Lisa Simpson (The Simpsons): I always have and always will adore Lisa Simpson as a politically charged, liberal character on a mainstream TV show. She’s amazing.

2. Katara (Avatar: the Last Airbender): and not just because I recently finished rewatching the series for the 4th time. I’ve loved the show (and Katara) since I was a kid and it was airing on TV. Two episodes stand out to me in particular: the one where she challenges Master Paku, even knowing she’s going to lose, and the one where they’re lost in the desert. She is just so strong, intelligent, loving, and yet also more multi-faceted than the general “mom” female character archetype, as showcased by her drive to fight and the righteous anger she often displays. Getting angry enough at Master Paku’s sexism to challenge him to a fight she knew she couldn’t win, just to get some small satisfaction out of it....Big Dick Energy. I know many people stan Toph the most, but it’d be a slightly different beast for Toph in a situation like this- she isn’t a newbie at bending and would absolutely already know she’s going to win. Having the courage to challenge someone you know you’ll lose to just to make a point? Different set of balls entirely. 

3. Ella (Ella Enchanted): where do I even start??? How about with if you haven’t read this book, READ IT IMMEDIATELY! It’s a book for kids so it’s only like 200 pages and a fun/easy read, but holy SHIT. So it’s an extremely creative re-telling of Cinderella and it’s incredible. Basically, Ella has been cursed at birth to be obedient- if someone orders her to do something, she *has* to do it. The whole book is about her wild, independent spirit and her journey to breaking the curse and the whole thing is a brilliant commentary on women in society while also being full of humour and magic creatures and adventure and fun and it’s my favourite book of all time! 

4. Nynaeve al’Meara (The Wheel of Time): she is very angry and bossy and I adore that. Over the course of a 14 book series, there’s way too much to get into with her, but I love her and her stubbornness. For anyone who hasn’t read the series, she’s a magic-user and becomes incredibly good at healing out of pure stubbornness. Picture a “fuck you, you aren’t going to fucking die because I SAID SO DAMMIT” type of character.

(this is fanart because she’s a book character)

5. Shion Uzuki (Xenosaga): again, stubborn, bossy, smart.....I have a type don’t I hahahaha

6. Leela (Futurama): I’m outing myself as a Matt Groening stan but c’est la vie, I love the female characters in his shows. Leela is a great combo of tough badass/low brain cell count and I love her so much.

7. Starfire (Teen Titans): first of all, I am gay.....and she’s incredibly powerful but also very kind, and I love that combo.

8. Mrs. Brisby (The Secret of NIMH): *cries* precious mother trying to save her kids!!!!!!!! Plus it’s an amazing movie. 

9. Eris (Sinbad): she is one of my favourite female villains. Coy, toying, dangerous. And I suppose this doesn’t have much to do with her character, but her hair design is fucking COOL. I’m gay and we need more amazing female villains that aren’t just there to be sexy.

10. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga): again, I am very gay....I remember buying this game when I was 12 just because her picture on the cover was so pretty (that kid wasn’t straight I’m tellin ya). Anyway she’s the sexy robot archetype- except she’s literally a robot and speaks like a robot and has no empathy and will kill you, and I’m willing to excuse the skimpy outfits she’s put in because a) I’m gay and b) she was canonically designed by a woman (#5′s Shion Uzuki no less) and we are here for Space Lesbians and the gay pining of a woman who wants nothing more than for the beautiful killer robot she designed with her big science brain to become real and Love Her 

(this is REAL, ACTUAL, OFFICIAL art for the game.....can it get any gayer?!?!)

Anyway, I’ve talked enough, so I’m tagging @squirrelmort, @konekat, @editingatwork​, @fanonorcanon​, @pixielle​....I’m not sure who else is into these types of memes so I’m not sure who to tag, so if you want to but I didn’t tag you, feel free to do it! I want to see everyone’s picks!

[ivanaskye]

WoT Reactions: Book 7, A Crown of Swords

Almost halfway through the series, and a lot is happening. Well, except for the parts where it takes forever for something to happen... while a bunch of other things happen. I think this is starting to hit the part of the series that many fans say is poorly-paced, and I can kind of see why...

That’s not why it took a while for me to finish this one tho, that’s mostly because I was visiting family for the holidays.

One of the main themes of this book is the many, many ways in which the Aes Sedai have horribly mismanaged basically everything due to being too strict (read: abusive) as well as too distrustful of each other. Which means that it turns out that there’s ALMOST TWO THOUSAND women trained by them who they’ve kicked out, which is literally more than the people they haven’t. Also some of them are older than they thought any Aes Sedai could get. Also the complete lack of sharing information between Ajahs or even sometimes between individuals within the same Ajah means no one knows anything EXCEPT the evil ones. Amazing.

Anyway, that’s all set to change now that the world is ending, so uh, that’s a plus? Lmao.

Character-by-character thoughts under the cut.

Rand

One of Rand’s most notable developments this book is having sex with Min, then completely losing his mind over it

It’s like. Min: rips off his clothing. Rand, for the next several days: I’m such a monster.

This is also why he flings Perrin against a wall

Bc obviously having SEX proves he’s a MONSTER

Thankfully this gets resolved in less than a week, but still

Also! He and Min VERBALLY confessed their feelings to each other! That’s the best progress this harem has seen yet!

God what else did Rand do this book. Oh right, teleport around a lot and get stabbed by Padan Fain and then let Sammael lure him into Shadar Logoth

Where Sammael “””dies”””

(I will not believe ANYONE in this series is dead until I have SEEN THE BODY)

Meanwhile he does a mercy killing of Leah, which hopefully has broken down his block against killing women, because there’s like, what, five female forsaken who are totally willing to kill him?

Perrin

Gets flung against a wall, leaves to do some other mission

Honestly I don’t have much to say about Perrin this book?

He and Faile still aren’t really communicating, for still-really-stupid reasons?

Sigh

Egwene

Still THE GODDAMN AMYRLIN SEAT

Finds out about Lan, sends him to Nynaeve

Not rly the most important character this book but I love her

Min

As mentioned above, has sex with Rand

Is also absolute MVP for actually communicating with him. And having something that resembles a brain.

Tells Cadsuane etc enough to prevent them from totally triggering his PTSD while trying to save his life

LITERALLY possesses half the braincells in this whole book

Also, total confirmation that Moiraine isn’t dead, Min thinking about how Moiraine being essential to Rand’s success is her ‘one viewing that hasn’t come true’

Birgitte

The other MVP, the only person on the planet capable of breaking down the communication barriers between Mat and Nynaeve + Elyane

This is because she is the only person on the planet who is from a time period (well, several time periods) with actual gender equality, including men and women not all automatically distrusting each other

Mat is shocked to discover he can think of a woman as a person

Nynaeve is shocked that Birgitte can think of a man as a person

A+, good work

Mat

Speaking of,

Maybe actually learns a thing or two regarding his sexism. Part of that is via a FRIENDSHIP WITH BIRGITTE, which I did not expect to become one of my favorite friendships in the series, but here we are

The other part is uh, the getting raped

And like, otherwise assaulted

A lot

By Tylin, queen of Ebou Dar

It’s a real bad time and I feel sorry for him

We leave the book with him being the last of our protagonists out of the city, not quite leaving before a war erupts there, I’m sure he’ll have a GREAT time next book,

Nynaeve

Despite Aviendha making her apologize to Mat, I don’t think she ACTUALLY admits she’s wrong any time in this book? So she’s still only done so once in the entire series lmao

A Mess TM!

Her block is broken now, thanks to a near-death experience WHICH WAS DUE TO MOGHEDIAN, meaning Moghedian is accidentally responsible for Nynaeve becoming more powerful, good job

Ok weirdly her relationship with Lan is actually... super cute in this book, where it WASN’T before, and I think the difference is the part where Lan longs for death even more than usual

You would think that wouldn’t suddenly make a ship cute

But you would be wrong

He’s HOLLOW and HALF DEAD INSIDE and somehow. It works? I don’t know man

Lan

See above

Elayne

More braincells than Nynaeve or Mat, which is to say, she has one (1)

Spends significantly too many pages flailing around looking for the Bowl, but hey, she+Nynaeve+Mat have finally found it, so at least THAT subplot comes to an end

Still needs to actually go be queen

Cadsuane

She’s no Moiraine, but I like her

Badass old lady who fears zero (0) things

Morgase

Still alive, BARELY

Has now been tortured, but OFF-page, which is a rarity in the Torture Porn Series

Also she had very, very coerced sex

Then the Seanchan show up in Amadicia and she’s introduced to something even more terrifying, the concept of slavery, and manages to escape with one of the suddenly-less-bad-seeming religious zealots

Moghedien, Galina

SPEAKING OF the concept of slavery,

Both of these are very evil people we don’t like, who this book now makes us feel sorry for by watching their torture and degradation

Which is very classic WoT

So that’s most of the characters I have specific thoughts on, but there’s something else I wanna say here at the end, which is predictions for the next book!

While I’m quite sure that Moiraine and Lanfear aren’t dead, I don’t think they’re coming back quite yet. For that matter, I’m not sure if Sammael’s probably-not-dead nature will be revealed yet

Instead, I think the main enemy next book is going to be the Seanchan, now that they’ve invaded two further countries

Maybe we’ll get to see Egeanin again???? Pls????

[nonbinarysasquatch]

I decided this time to just copy my review of The Dragon Reborn straight from Reddit rather than copy my not really detailed Goodreads review:

I'm back in the saddle again!

Yeah, my one week to finish this turned out to be a month. Oops. But it sure wasn't because I didn't enjoy this book, oh no.

As a reminder for the final time: I read New Spring first and if you are a fellow new reader who hasn't read it that might be something to keep in mind. That said, I'm not planning on referencing anything to it in this review as I don't feel it has any bearing on my thoughts for this one.

Overall thoughts on this book:

Woo, this series just keeps getting better. Even though this book is the shortest yet it really felt like so much happened. Jordan is really getting a feel for the story he's telling. This felt in many ways like the culmination of a lot of things from the first two books. Rand is the Dragon Reborn and is now embracing that role.

Do I have any complaints about this book? You know, not really. Well, beyond issues with one character which I'll get into below. This was a really solid entry.

Character thoughts:

Egwene: Egwene is starting to fight Nynaeve for being my favourite. I loved how much more brash and harsh she's become. It feels a bit like she's mirroring Rand in terms of becoming more powerful and becoming less nice. She's not at his level yet but she's showing herself to be comfortable with, even enjoying, torture. It's a dark turn but I like it. Complex, flawed characters are always more interesting than safe characters who never make mistakes. I am surprised by how fast she, Elayne and Nynaeve are moving up the ranks in the Aes Sedai but it's not super shocking since if they all spend a decade moving up the entire plot would have to be put on hold which would kill the dramatic tension.

Perrin: OK, I guess, saying that I'll admit Perrin isn't that complex, but I still continue to love him. He's also kind of mirroring Rand, at least in terms of power. I loved the wolf dreams (and all the dream stuff in this in general, I'm weak for dream stuff.) Unfortunately, Perrin's plot has a mark against it but I'll get to Faile further below.

Mat: Heyyy, Mat actually got to do stuff. He's evolved being a foolhardy prankster to being a gambler with luck on his side. I'm a little unclear if it's literal magic luck or just general good luck from being ta'veren. I liked Mat in this one. He's not my favourite but he's fun.

Rand: Sir Barely Appearing in this Book. I thought keeping Rand to a minimum in this book was an interesting choice. It gave the other characters more room to breathe and I also think it highlights how he's changing. And boy is he changing. Rand using the one power to make a bunch of corpses kneel before him is pretty eerie. I also thought it was interesting exploring the effect he's having on the world and those around him by simply existing instead of focusing on how the changes happening are affecting him. This book felt more about the world than it was about Rand.

Nynaeve: Still my favourite for the time being. She did get overshadowed by Egwene in this book.

Elayne: I'm not really super certain what my feelings are on Elayne at this point. I like her but don't have strong feelings about her yet. I just like reading about the friendship between the three ladies.

Moiraine: Moiraine really upped her intensity in this one. Whatever niceness and patience she had before are getting shed. I do feel like the characters should start putting more faith and trust in her. She's saved their lives a whole heck of a lot at this point and been right about basically everything, that should earn her something.

Lan: Not much development for Lan in this but he was great as always. Even the Nynaeve romance only got little mentions here and there.

Loial/Thom: You know, I like both these two but I'm starting to feel like they aren' that important to the plot? Granted, maybe there was just not much for them to do in this book. Thom definitely could've been cut from Mat's plot without losing much. I'm glad he wasn't since I like Thom but I'm not really clear what his and Loial's places are in the overall narrative.

Min: I was hoping I'd get more of her beyond the opening bits. We haven't gotten that deep of a look at her yet. I guess she must've arrived at the Tower at some point.

Siuan: Glad we got a fair bit of her in this. I feel like her fishing metaphors increase with every appearance haha.

Faile: I'm always really reluctant to be negative about a female character. I've noticed in pretty much every fandom I've ever interacted with the female characters tend to... get more negative attention for doing less wrong than the male characters. A flaw that adds complexity to a male character will be seen as something unforgivable when given to a female character.

That said, hooboy, Faile has really tested me. Faile stalks Perrin, forces herself into their group, forces her way into their plans, is inappropriate and creepy with Perrin the entire time, is given numerous opportunities to bail but sticks around because she wants to be part of a good story but then complains the entire time like she's being put-upon even though literally no one forced her into this and then for some reason at the end I guess she and Perrin are in love now? And the saddest thing about that is its somehow the best-developed romance these books have been given so far.

My guess is we're supposed to find all her inappropriate behaviour charming? Perrin's the sweetest, kindest character in these books, what'd he do to deserve this? Hopefully, this is just a rocky start and she'll be toned down in the next book. I can honestly deal with harsh and not necessarily nice characters but Jordan's choices with her are really strange. The way she acts just isn't earned. There's no good reason for her to demand to be a part of this then complain about it as if she were a child.

Apologies to anyone who loves her. Just remember I didn't care for Mat at first either haha.

Ba'alzamon: Well. I'll admit, I'm confused at what the point of this character was. Rand kicks his ass 3 times then we find out he was just a pretender who was this other bad guy that seems to have been built up but now he's dead. It's particularly odd since I didn't think he was the Dark One in the first place. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Robert Jordan's plans for this character may have changed along the way. Perhaps in EOTW he was meant to be the Dark One or possessed by the Dark One but decided that the series was growing longer and having Rand beat the main villain several times would cheapen him in the long term. I'm hopeful that the next book will clear things up since Moiraine didn't have much time to explain things at the end.

Some broad stroke thoughts:

I'm starting to feel kind of numb to all the different inns and innkeepers. I know some of them may come back and be important but 3 books in there really have been a lot of them. I can't really blame Jordan for giving them all names and descriptions but I don't think my brain can really retain that much information haha.

I felt a similar thing with all the different captains in this book. He goes into so much detail about the ships and the captains but it just kind of blurs together. Also, I missed Domon in this book. Kept expecting him to show up. Alas.

I really would read an entire series of books just about the Aes Sedai. I want to read about all the inner Tower politics and the nuances between all the different Ajahs. It's a shame there aren't enough female leads so that we can have one character joining each Ajah. I'm looking forward to seeing which Ajah Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne will join. Elayne does seem to be leaning green. I do hope they all go for different ones just to get the different looks.

The entire climax was so great. For every book the climax has gotten better than the last. Just so many cool pieces with Egwene trying to get them out of the cell, Perrin trying to save Faile, Mat trying to rescue the ladies and Rand being an absolute beast and taking down not one but two forsaken. I love a good magic sword. They might be cliche but Callandor is still pretty rad.

Ohhh I haven't said anything about the Aiel. I'll admit having desert people look Nordic is definitely different. I thought the characters in this were interesting and I'm glad that we're seeing everyone's preconceptions of them being proven false. Given the ending, I assume the next book will have a lot more of them (and at some point Rand will need to dig into his past.)

Adaptation Talk:

Even though this is the shortest book so far, I really feel it's the one I'd want to see given the most episodes. You can easily squeeze the first two books into a ten-episode season but this one might be tough to fit in if you try to put another book in there. But it's hard to say what they should do without having read the next one (and hooboy, TSR appears to be the thickest yet.) I hope the show at least gets a second season so we can get the visual feast of the Heart of Stone battle.

Ranking:

The Dragon Reborn

The Great Hunt

New Spring

The Eye of the World

So far no stinkers. TDR was very, very good with my only real complaint being Faile in general. Starting the Shadow Rising this evening and I actually already have The Fires of Heaven waiting at the library because I just want to keep momentum going and not get sidetracked like I did this time haha.

[joannalannister]

How do you think the Wheel of Time series deals with feminism? On the one hand, we have many female friendships, female rulers, Rands love interests are more than love interests... On the other hand, there are situations in which menare abused by women, and it's treated as something funny (Mat's rape by Tylin comes to mind). And I hate that "man becomes a badass by accessing a power usually reserved to women" trope

Hi! There’s a lot to unpack here. I guess I would start off by saying that Wheel of Time isn’t perfect. For me, the things RJ did right outweigh the imperfections, and that’s why I enjoy it, but I definitely understand that that’s not the case for everyone. 

It’s definitely true that in WoT, men are abused by women. In my opinion, RJ wanted to explore what it meant to have a matriarchal society, where you get a lot of women in positions of power, but you also get some women abusing those positions of power. 

If you’ll let me turn this around for a minute, we could say something very similar about ASOIAF. There are (many) situations in which women are abused by men in ASOIAF, and sometimes, such as Drogo raping Dany, it’s not even critically examined by the text at all. Does that undermine the feminism of ASOIAF as a whole? Opinions vary on that topic. Most people argue that it’s not the presence of abuse in fiction that’s a problem, but how that abuse is depicted. 

I don’t necessarily have a problem with authors who write abuse into their texts. For me, the issue is how an author depicts things like rape or abuse. Note that RJ wrote about rape and abuse happening to both men and women. For example, Morgause was raped repeatedly and it’s treated as something horrific. Rand’s horrible treatment by Aes Sedai is also treated very seriously by the text. 

But like you mention, people like Elayne initially think Mat’s rape is something funny, and RJ could have written that better. However, before Mat and Elayne part ways in Ebou Dar, Elayne realizes she was wrong to think of it as funny, and she apologizes to Mat, and she even draws the analogy back to our own world for the reader, saying something like “Hey, if this was an old widower king doing this to a young girl, this wouldn’t be funny at all” and when I first read that in the late 90s, it made me think more about male victims of sexual violence, and how it’s not really funny. And RJ did this while still keeping it all PG-13 (tbh I think I might have read the Ebou Dar part when I was 12), so it isn’t something that I view as utterly terrible, even though I think that yes, it could have been better. However, I understand that not everyone feels this way about Mat’s rape, and I totally understand if that’s something that turns people off the series.

(I read AGOT maybe a year or two later, and Dany’s rape (which, like I said, isn’t critically examined in the text at all) only made me upset. It didn’t inspire any critical thought on the subject at all. So if you wanted me to rank them, I’d say ASOIAF is worse, given everything that it is and tries to be.) 

I hate that “man becomes a badass by accessing a power usually reserved to women” trope

I’m not sure if I understand what you’re referring to here, but if you’re referring to the One Power, I’ve never viewed it this way. Saidin was always something that belonged to men, and in their hubris and unwillingness to work with the women, they lost this power. Over the course of the series, men redeem themselves and realize how they can’t go it alone and how important it is to work together, and they win it back. If we view the One Power as, like, the essence of life, how is that reserved for women? Isn’t that, like, our common humanity, and everyone should have access to it, and it was a great tragedy on the part of the men that they tainted it, and a great victory when they got it back clean? I guess I don’t understand the criticism here.

How do you think the Wheel of Time series deals with feminism?

When it comes to evaluating a piece of media, I don’t go into it with a feminist checklist, like, 1) Does this pass the Bechdel Test? 2) Does this pass the Mako Mori Test? 3) How many rapes are depicted, and to whom, and how? and so on and so forth.** 

Instead, I ask myself, how does this piece of media make me feel? What does it make me think about? What impact or relevance does it have on my life? Art is a very personal, emotional experience, and that’s ultimately a major part of how I evaluate it. 

Some time in the late 90s, maybe 1998 or 1999, I dressed up as Moiraine Damodred for Halloween. I got a fringed shawl embroidered with flowers, and a necklace from Claire’s that I pinned into my hair, and I raided my mother’s closet and found a blue and green long plaid taffeta skirt that tied with a big bow. I probably looked a mess, but I felt like I could do anything. 

Characters like Moiraine and Nynaeve and Egwene and Elayne and Aviendha were amazing to me. They could be main POV characters in a fantasy story instead of sidekicks or minor characters. They got POVs. (Oooooh gosh, when the little girl I was first got to the Moiraine POV in book two, that was amazing.) Unlike characters like Daenerys Targaryen, Moiraine didn’t even have to be abused first!!!! Moiraine and Nynaeve could literally work to save the world!!!!! And they didn’t even need to be raped first to do it!!! 

I liked reading about all of these characters. They were my friends. I liked reading about women who were leaders in their communities, who overcame obstacles, who grew up and performed miracles. 

Is The Wheel of Time perfect? Fuck no. Rereading it as an adult, some parts of it feel very juvenile and simplistic to me. But hey, RJ was trying to keep it PG-13, whereas someone like GRRM is definitely not. I loved Wheel of Time when I was a kid, and I hated ASOIAF at that age. (Some books have to come along at the right time in your life.)  Wheel of Time doesn’t stimulate my mind as much as it did when I was a little kid. It doesn’t always do well with a lot of issues that are very important to tumblr, because RJ was an old southern baby-boomer. 

But Wheel of Time made me feel good about myself as a 13yo girl, and it gave me some great female role models that I still admire to this day. That’s enough for me. 

*

*

***One of my all-time favorite movies, The Shawshank Redemption, passes none of these criteria. I’m probably forgetting somebody, but the only women I can remember are the pinups on the prison cell wall. It’s probably not feminist at all. But I don’t care. I like the emotions it inspires in me. I like how it makes me feel at the end. That’s all I want. 

ASOIAF is probably more feminist than The Shawshank Redemption, idk. What I do know is that I don’t like how ASOIAF makes me feel sometimes. After reading about so many rapes, and so many dead mothers, and so many women being abused, ASOIAF makes me feel tired sometimes. ASOIAF makes me feel like the fantasy genre is unfair sometimes. 

And sure, sure, we could talk about how ASOIAF is more realistic than Wheel of Time, we could talk about how ASOIAF has more complex female characters, whose problems more closely align with what real women relate to, and yada yada yada. 

But ASOIAF makes me angry and sad and frustrated. Why doesn’t the Unnamed Princess of Dorne have a name, and how can I talk about her politics when I don’t even know her name? Why did so many women die in childbirth in GRRM’s world, when I did the calculations and it’s statistically unlikely for there to be that many? Why isn’t Dany’s rape examined more critically in the text? Where are the female friendships depicted on the page? Why aren’t there more lesbians, and I’m not talking about Dany’s situational homosexuality or Cersei raping Taena or the passing mention of Essie and Sylvenna Sand, and for that matter, why do Dornish women have to be depicted as exoticized and hyper-sexualized???? I’m angry and not in the “patriarchy in Westeros is dehumanizing and you should be angry about it” way that GRRM intended. I’m angry and sad at GRRM’s writing and his omissions and sloppy depictions, and how he could imagine what I consider to be the richest fantasy world I’ve encountered, but he couldn’t imagine things like the Princess of Dorne’s name!!!

Wheel of Time, for what it is, never made me feel that way.

[hyperbolicpurple]

Wheel of Time: The Great Hunt

I keep forgetting to make this post, lol. I’m already halfway through The Dragon Reborn, so some stuff from that might get mixed in.

(anyone feel free to comment or reply, but please don’t spoil me for what I haven’t yet read, please!)

Previous Posts: The Eye of the World

I enjoyed it!

Strong first chapter with EVIL HENCHMEN MEETING. Also, secretly implanted commands that the recipient doesn’t even realize are there = I love it.

My suspicion of Mat continues. I already know he’s going to get healed in the next book, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW, he could turn out to be evil still. INTERESTING that he is the one who blew the horn and that Artur Hawking’s army is now ~linked~ to him. This could be either played for good (for whatever reason the deviation from the norm becomes useful) or eventually bad (Rand vs. Artur Hawking’s army). Kinda feeling the latter. (Also, I did catch on in the first book to the Arthur Pendragon connection. I’m not totally useless at fantasy allusions, yay.)

Early reveal that the Amyrlin Seat is in league with Moirane and they’re all buddy-buddy. Probably could have been delayed for more dramatic tension. (Obviously I have been UTTERLY SPOILED by GRRM for the usefulness of successive limited POV changes. That man is a master.)

Selene = CALLED IT, that witch was up to no good. You can never trust a woman whose power is making dudes fall under her seductive spell, in this kind of story. Curious why she hates being referred to as an Aes Sedai if she’s a channeller. Maybe just offended by the fact that the Aes Sedai are (nominally) on the side of the Light? (Are they? They are, right?)

Egwene being collared as a magic slave was probably the most interesting part of the book for me, but it was so short! I swear, that plot point didn’t start until three-quarters of the way through. Should have been longer. That’s potentially major character-altering stuff and it was just kind of squished in at the end during the timeskip.

One of my favorite sections was Nynaeve’s trials, but the last one fell just slightly flat for me. Like, if it’s the toughest trial, work that shit! Give me more of her fake memories of life with Lan. (I can’t believe I’m actually advocating for this book to be longer. BUT COME ON, BE WILLING TO PUT ON YOUR CLEATS AND STOMP ON MY HEART HERE. I have not-dissimilar thoughts about Egwene’s trials in the next book.)

Then I also loved Rand’s journey through a bunch of successive lives. I EAT THAT SHIT UP. If every single work of fiction I consumed had a section where people experienced alternate versions of their own lives, I would be SO HAPPY, you don’t even know. Loved it.

(Did we ever figure out what happened when Rand entered that house and, apparently, got stuck in a time loop...? It was even mentioned later, so I felt like it was important, but as far as I can tell... zero closure.)

The Great Game stuff in Cairhein was obviously reminiscent of the “game of thrones” but more obviously ridiculous and lolworthy. You just wanna be like, “these freaks having conniptions over invitations, wtf.”

Hi Thom, bye Thom. Sorry about your assistant.

This might have happened in TDR, but Moiraine thinking about how Lan has changed (even though he doesn’t realize it) and wondering when he’s going to ask her to be unbonded made me really happy. Also, great job giving the woman you love a ring for her protection, because that’s totally just your job, not because you love her. Ha. Yep, you fooled me.

Ingtar, didn’t really care about him, glad he got a redemption though. Sometimes I wonder about how the schema of “good” vs “evil” just doesn’t quite work for me in these books. Like, if it’s obvious which power is good and which is evil, and everyone evil knows they are being evil ... that seems to shut out not only the “banality of evil” approach, but also the possibility of people who genuinely think they have a good intention at heart while doing terrible things.

I mean, not totally. You could get people who think they totally are actually in control of the situation and they know what they’re doing!!!, even though they’ve sworn their soul to Ba’alzemon, or people who sincerely believe they’re serving the Light even though they’re doing terrible things, or people who see themselves as basically a self-sacrifice to the Dark and that being worth it as long as Ba’alzemon does what he promises for their people/family/whatever. But we haven’t reeeeeallly had that yet? IDK, I feel the same way about the Light/Dark dichotomy. Not that there’s NO questioning of that (the Aes Sedai being an example of an institution that is “Light” but sometimes suspect, especially in their treatment of people as tools, and obviously Whitecloaks etc, but then if that’s the case, what does being on the side of the Light actually mean?) but ... I want more. I long for more.

Speaking of the magic and moral systems, you’ve got the One Power and the True Power (which are different? who came up with that naming schema? one’s Light and one’s Dark, yeah? is this actually a sign that there is no difference? bc I would be into that), and also the One Power is split into male and female halves, and I have no idea how these things map onto each other? Like, is the True Power also sexually dimorphic? I hesitate to go to a wiki for the answers b/c spoilers.

Next Post: The Dragon Reborn

[fic-dreamin]

Pathetic quality control for CDs I recently purchased all 14 books of the Wheel Of Time in audiobook format, all read by Kate Reading and Michael Kramer (which was published by Macmillan Audio and Audio Renaissance). Go to Amazon

This book is no better or worse than any in the series This book is no better or worse than any in the series. Up to to this point , they all really read like one giant story. What really seperates each book is the major events thay happens in each book as well as which characters the story focuses on as the story progresses. This particular volume focuses the most on Rand, Mathew , and refreshingly Min. I would describe this story as one where many important things are set up to further move along the story - sort of a set up volume. The characters involved are all fun and important characters which is the biggest drive to cotinue reading, but this is not a book where i felt anything super climactic happened- other than what happens on the very last page which i will not spoil in a review . Go to Amazon

Robert Jordan's magnum opus is great overall, but often gets bogged down in character ... Robert Jordan's magnum opus is great overall, but often gets bogged down in character development without much plot advancement. He often links a person's dialogue with a trademark action and a trademark thought for that particular character. "Nynaeve yanked on her hairbraid while upbraiding Mat. Wool headed men! she thought." You get the idea. This makes for rather repetitious reading, especially in this book. Still, the series is a must read. Go to Amazon

Another page-turner! I started reading the Wheel of Time series in the '90s as a teenager, and stopped in early college (around 2000) because I couldn't bear to wait and wait and wait between books. Now that the final book is coming out I am fulfilling a promise to myself, made long ago, to read them all again. It's a very different experience reading them back to back. I feel much less anxiety over the speed of the plot (when will Moraine return?! When will Rand go crazy? What will the three girls do when they are finally in one room together with Rand?!?!!). Instead I am enjoying all the nuances of the story. Also, it is much easier to follow the disparate narratives when you're not taking 2 years off between books. Go to Amazon

Another tasty slice of the wheel; development and setup abound. This is the seventh book in the [Wheel of Time] series; this is already longer than most series get, and it's only halfway done. There are a lot of negative reviews from readers who grew frustrated with the series' length, and it's understandable. It's a serious time investment, and readers have to be willing to make the emotional investment in the characters as well. However, I will object to claims that the writing is any worse. The quality is very rich, with excellent descriptive writing and some very distinctive characters. Old characters develop in a very intriguing manner and new characters add layers to the story. As in the prior novel [Lord of Chaos], this is a fantasy novel that doesn't try to be "all action, all the time." However, if the central story element of [Lord] was political conflict in a world approaching cataclysm, [A Crown of Swords] is all about the people, who are beginning to feel malaise from wars past and fear of a cataclysm approaching. It's interesting to note how much the world changes from the first novel to this one, and the nature of the writing suggests that Jordan intended the [Wheel of Time] series to be about more than a few key characters; this series is about the ending of an era, of the world and the people who inhabit it. Go to Amazon

Amazing and frustrating Took me three years or more to finish because I get so annoyed with the female characters, but absolutely loved it. The story, characters and world are amazing and second to none. Go to Amazon

No spoilers here. Aside from the author's penchant for over-describing scenery and, occasionally, people's clothing, this is a great continuation to the Wheel of Time series. Saying anything more would just spoil the intricate plot line. Obviously, since this is book seven of a 14 book series, anyone reading this is familiar with the story, the characters, and the settings enough to know whether they'd like to continue reading. Since I've invested so much time into getting this far, I will definitely finish the series. Happy reading! Go to Amazon

Five Stars Be prepared it's a long series This book exceeds my expectations Least favorite of the series Great series Five Stars Five Stars Good book Still great! I will still finish the series, I have to find out who wins.

[fic-dreamin]

I will still finish the series, I have to find out who wins. Just a short note, I've read them all up to this point. I've enjoyed all of them, some more than others . Go to Amazon

This book is no better or worse than any in the series This book is no better or worse than any in the series. Up to to this point , they all really read like one giant story. What really seperates each book is the major events thay happens in each book as well as which characters the story focuses on as the story progresses. This particular volume focuses the most on Rand, Mathew , and refreshingly Min. I would describe this story as one where many important things are set up to further move along the story - sort of a set up volume. The characters involved are all fun and important characters which is the biggest drive to cotinue reading, but this is not a book where i felt anything super climactic happened- other than what happens on the very last page which i will not spoil in a review . Go to Amazon

Robert Jordan's magnum opus is great overall, but often gets bogged down in character ... Robert Jordan's magnum opus is great overall, but often gets bogged down in character development without much plot advancement. He often links a person's dialogue with a trademark action and a trademark thought for that particular character. "Nynaeve yanked on her hairbraid while upbraiding Mat. Wool headed men! she thought." You get the idea. This makes for rather repetitious reading, especially in this book. Still, the series is a must read. Go to Amazon

Engaging read As much as I enjoyed this book, I just can't get over his female characters. They are either angry, haughty or in some mental state in-between angry and haughty. I especially cannot STAND that Nynaeve character. I try and speed read through her sections. Go to Amazon

Another page-turner! I started reading the Wheel of Time series in the '90s as a teenager, and stopped in early college (around 2000) because I couldn't bear to wait and wait and wait between books. Now that the final book is coming out I am fulfilling a promise to myself, made long ago, to read them all again. It's a very different experience reading them back to back. I feel much less anxiety over the speed of the plot (when will Moraine return?! When will Rand go crazy? What will the three girls do when they are finally in one room together with Rand?!?!!). Instead I am enjoying all the nuances of the story. Also, it is much easier to follow the disparate narratives when you're not taking 2 years off between books. Go to Amazon

Another tasty slice of the wheel; development and setup abound. This is the seventh book in the [Wheel of Time] series; this is already longer than most series get, and it's only halfway done. There are a lot of negative reviews from readers who grew frustrated with the series' length, and it's understandable. It's a serious time investment, and readers have to be willing to make the emotional investment in the characters as well. However, I will object to claims that the writing is any worse. The quality is very rich, with excellent descriptive writing and some very distinctive characters. Old characters develop in a very intriguing manner and new characters add layers to the story. As in the prior novel [Lord of Chaos], this is a fantasy novel that doesn't try to be "all action, all the time." However, if the central story element of [Lord] was political conflict in a world approaching cataclysm, [A Crown of Swords] is all about the people, who are beginning to feel malaise from wars past and fear of a cataclysm approaching. It's interesting to note how much the world changes from the first novel to this one, and the nature of the writing suggests that Jordan intended the [Wheel of Time] series to be about more than a few key characters; this series is about the ending of an era, of the world and the people who inhabit it. Go to Amazon

Amazing and frustrating Took me three years or more to finish because I get so annoyed with the female characters, but absolutely loved it. The story, characters and world are amazing and second to none. Go to Amazon

Still great! The momentum keeps building Five Stars Cliffhanger A great book to re-establish the joy of the series It's time to toss the dice Book seven Crown of Swords reread Five Stars Good book

[fic-dreamin]

I will still finish the series, I have to find out who wins. Just a short note, I've read them all up to this point. I've enjoyed all of them, some more than others . Go to Amazon

This book is no better or worse than any in the series This book is no better or worse than any in the series. Up to to this point , they all really read like one giant story. What really seperates each book is the major events thay happens in each book as well as which characters the story focuses on as the story progresses. This particular volume focuses the most on Rand, Mathew , and refreshingly Min. I would describe this story as one where many important things are set up to further move along the story - sort of a set up volume. The characters involved are all fun and important characters which is the biggest drive to cotinue reading, but this is not a book where i felt anything super climactic happened- other than what happens on the very last page which i will not spoil in a review . Go to Amazon

Engaging read As much as I enjoyed this book, I just can't get over his female characters. They are either angry, haughty or in some mental state in-between angry and haughty. I especially cannot STAND that Nynaeve character. I try and speed read through her sections. Go to Amazon

Another page-turner! I started reading the Wheel of Time series in the '90s as a teenager, and stopped in early college (around 2000) because I couldn't bear to wait and wait and wait between books. Now that the final book is coming out I am fulfilling a promise to myself, made long ago, to read them all again. It's a very different experience reading them back to back. I feel much less anxiety over the speed of the plot (when will Moraine return?! When will Rand go crazy? What will the three girls do when they are finally in one room together with Rand?!?!!). Instead I am enjoying all the nuances of the story. Also, it is much easier to follow the disparate narratives when you're not taking 2 years off between books. Go to Amazon

Another tasty slice of the wheel; development and setup abound. This is the seventh book in the [Wheel of Time] series; this is already longer than most series get, and it's only halfway done. There are a lot of negative reviews from readers who grew frustrated with the series' length, and it's understandable. It's a serious time investment, and readers have to be willing to make the emotional investment in the characters as well. However, I will object to claims that the writing is any worse. The quality is very rich, with excellent descriptive writing and some very distinctive characters. Old characters develop in a very intriguing manner and new characters add layers to the story. As in the prior novel [Lord of Chaos], this is a fantasy novel that doesn't try to be "all action, all the time." However, if the central story element of [Lord] was political conflict in a world approaching cataclysm, [A Crown of Swords] is all about the people, who are beginning to feel malaise from wars past and fear of a cataclysm approaching. It's interesting to note how much the world changes from the first novel to this one, and the nature of the writing suggests that Jordan intended the [Wheel of Time] series to be about more than a few key characters; this series is about the ending of an era, of the world and the people who inhabit it. Go to Amazon

Amazing and frustrating Took me three years or more to finish because I get so annoyed with the female characters, but absolutely loved it. The story, characters and world are amazing and second to none. Go to Amazon

No spoilers here. Aside from the author's penchant for over-describing scenery and, occasionally, people's clothing, this is a great continuation to the Wheel of Time series. Saying anything more would just spoil the intricate plot line. Obviously, since this is book seven of a 14 book series, anyone reading this is familiar with the story, the characters, and the settings enough to know whether they'd like to continue reading. Since I've invested so much time into getting this far, I will definitely finish the series. Happy reading! Go to Amazon

Still great! The momentum keeps building Five Stars Cliffhanger A great book to re-establish the joy of the series It's time to toss the dice Book seven Crown of Swords reread Five Stars Good book