#ML SEASON 4

[ianime0]

Miraculous Ladybug S4 | Ep 26 | We're gonna get them back one by one, until the very last. And we'll make sure this never happens again! You, the best superhero there ever was, them, the people of Paris... And me, your loyal partner.

[gxlds-doodles]

the most happily married-but-not-married evil couple you've ever seen and their weird little dogboy son

[familyagrestefanblog]

What Marinette claims:

"Revealing a secret is the right thing to do when not doing so would put the victim in fatal danger"

What Marinette DOES:

"I would rather risk grieving Adrien than risk facing any kind of personal consequences for my own actions and choices. I will not ask for help despite having numerous people I could involve to find a different solution here than breaking Adrien's literal source of life. But I wont. That could risk people being mad at me and that's more important to prioritize preventing than Adrien's death"

[personinthepalace]

KAGAMI TSURUGI - THEN vs NOW

[lady-de-mon-coeur]

Some parallels about keeping secrets.

[ssoapp]

Zoe has always been queer

Listen, was Zoe planned as a character? Nope, she was 100% added as a replacement for Chloe after they changed their minds about her arc. HOWEVER, there's a specific subset of people that believe that her having a crush on Marinette was forced, which I completely and utterly refuse because her story was a queer allegory from the start. Her first scene with Marinette is literally a meet cute.

But on a deeper level I want to talk about her first conversation with Andre and the specific phrasing she uses. Let's talk first about "I'm good at acting," reaffirming it like it's almost instinctual for her; she's always putting on a mask. Of course she could be talking here about her mean persona, but it's so obviously framed like "I am not being my true self in any regard." This whole conversation is such a queer allegory that there is no way it was not intentional. I suspect that perhaps she had a secret relationship with one of the girls, it was exposed, and she pretended she never knew her.

I do think that they used some ideas from Chloe's abandoned arc for Zoe since it was so obviously subtextual that Sabrina and Chloe's relationship wasn't purely platonic, and perhaps there were some concepts of them being together, but something I will never agree with is that her being gay was just added in.

[passionfruitbowls]

wdym it’s been two years since the kuro neko premiere

[nixthelapin]

Guys… idk how this only just occurred to me now, but in s4: Strikeback, Tikki would’ve known that Marinette didn’t give the Dog to Adrien, because she knows Chat Noir is Adrien. Idk if she would’ve figured out it was Felix, but she definitely would’ve known that couldn’t be Adrien. (Ladybug already saw Chat earlier when fighting Strikeback while under the effect of Risk.)

And she didn’t think to warn Marinette about this?? (When she and Felix detransform to recharge in the sewer.) Like, I know she couldn’t say anything about him being Chat, but.. I definitely think there are easy ways to alert her, even something as simple as “hey, Marinette, there’s something off about ‘Adrien’” and explain it as kwami intuition or whatever. Even if Marinette doesn’t believe her, Tikki could at least get her to watch him closer (at the very least try). Heck, she could’ve told LB to tell Chat Flairmidable’s identity, so then the real Adrien knows what’s up and he can keep an eye on Felix! I know at this point she’s not so big on keeping Chat in the know, but I think she might’ve listened of her kwami insisted on this one specific thing.

Idk the feasibility of these ideas, but damn, Tikki, you coulda done something about someone you know was an imposter!! That basically makes the result of the Felix’s lie/bretrayal her fault in my eyes. Even if it wouldn’t have worked in the end, she should have tried something to prevent a disaster. (It doesn’t matter that she didn’t know what would happen, the fact that someone who lied about their identity and now has a Miraculous because of said false identity is enough to call action)

Though I guess this isn’t Tikki’s fault- she’s not real, she’s a character. The writers let this happen, and made their many-thousand year old character be a moron and let a villain become more powerful. Congrats guys, hope you’re proud!

[toxinoire]

I really hate season 4, 5 and 6 of Miraculous. Honestly. I don't want these children getting shoved into shit. I don't want anything heavy to happen anymore cause I'm tired and the kids are tired. I didn't WANT the creators to make our old theories to be real. And I most certainly didn't want more Adrien infantilzing and Marinette being an adult as a child (unfortunately I'm emotionally attached and therefore obligated to continue watching)

[masodemic]

Miraculous writing peaked around Risk and Strikeback I'm sorry but it's true

There is enough mystery, tension. You see characters devising their own plans to attain their goals, and other characters who are trying to sort themselves out. There is irony and drama. A loyal doggo who betrays. The contrast between a brilliant sleuthing genius and his horrified reaction seeing his aunt's frozen corpse. That trade scene where one demands power while the other asks for his life. Ladybug's overuse of the squad while neglecting the partner who's been with her since the beginning - a trend reaching its worst form and causing devastating consequences. Then of course the rooftop LadyNoir reconciliation in the rain 😭

I enjoyed season 5, and the finale makes sense on a plot level but season 4 finale with the amount of details and subplots intersecting like spider web will always be a favorite for me

[wield-the-mighty-pen]

Can we all just think about what this day has been for Adrien?

Imagine you wake up for the day, excited to have your bi-yearly scheduled lunch with your father, only to be told he has canceled on you once again and when you finally get the courage to speak your mind and talk to him, he interrupts you and tells you that you will be moving away from your home and beloved friends (with a person you hate) for an indefinite period of time. Imagine then, that you head to school, where you share a tender moment with someone who is definitely not just a friend and they give you the advice to talk to your father.

You then get home from school, where you are ambushed by your manipulative cousin, who is offering to trade places with you and help you out with your problem, only to discover he is scheming again. Before you can do anything about that, you have to go save the world with your superhero partner, who you've been feeling a little neglected by lately and for some reason, all those negative feelings seem to be manifesting right now during the fight. She then call in some reinforcements, and this new guy, that she keeps fawning over is giving you bad vibes (it's definitely not just jealously guys).

You save the day and head home, this time with the intent of actually confronting your father, only to be stopped by your superhero partner, who for some reason is looking for your civilian counterpart. She claims that she handed you a miraculous and you very quickly realize that your scheming and manipulative cousin, was scheming and manipulative.

You watch as your partner has a panic attack and do your best to calm her down and help her retain some miraculous. You hear her muffled cries through the door and when you go to check on her, she's gone. You find out that the villain you fight has got a hold of the miraculous and you go to find your partner.

You find her and manager to comfort her, all the while sharing a not-at-all platonic moment with her, and you prepare to fight the villain who has re-monikered himself and given himself new powers.

You see the rabbit miraculous and what looks like a future version of yourself show up and you realize that you will have to go through time in a time battle to reclaim the rabbit miraculous. You are given a rabbit miraculous to use and your very concept of space and time are altered as a result. After a lengthy, convoluted battle, you say goodbye to a good friend and decide to head to London to interrogate your aunt. The interrogation leading nowhere, you decide to head home only to be immediately called by your partner asking you to head to the wax museum and pose like a statue (which totally brings back some memories for you...). You finally get rid of that piece of paper in your bell and manage to capture the villain who you've been fighting for so long.

Except, the plan fails. The villain manages to get away with all of the Kwamis and now you have a weight on your conscious. You have just used against a person the power you vowed to use only for good. You are reminded of the significant power that you wield.

You once more arrive home and turn on the TV to try and distract yourself. Only to see that there's once more a problem that needs your help. You get there and see two people who have similar powers to you and your partner, but there's something wrong. Your partner asserts that they aren't akumatized, but you are wary. You learn that they are a version of you from a different universe, or at least a version of your power. You once more, are reminded the of ultimate destruction you have at your fingertips.

You come to understand that these doubles are in fact your partner and yourself from another universe. A universe, where the villain you are fighting is now your ally. Once assuring your friends are safe, you go after your double to fight them. When you meet to speak to them person to person and talk through your shared trauma. You learn that he too lost his precious mother, but he has no one to help him through it. You relive that loss together. You talk him down from making the wish that a part of you wants to make every single day. You begin to realize the version of you isn't bad, he's just hurting.

After ensuring the safety of other universes and giving a hopeful send of to your doubles, you finally, finally this time head home for the night.

Surveying around your room, you are reminded of the morning that feels like forever ago. You remember what your cousin said, what your good friend said. Emboldened by her words, you decide it's time to face your father. You go to his office where he's working and utter the words you never thought you would: I don't want to be a model anymore

Your father passively assents to this, and finally finally you are free.

You are filled with gratitude and this odd warmth that you don't spend too much time analyzing. You need to do something to thank the person who's advice got you what you so desperately wanted. You decide to call her up and thank her face-to-face.

You call her on the phone, which gets answered by her best friend, and then finally her and you give her your most sincere expression of gratitude, thanking her for everything she has done for you this past year.

As the warmth inside of your chest grows, you tell her you will do your best to pay it. You end the phone call with a smile on your face and a happy sigh.

Finally, with thoughts of your dear friend roaming around your mind, you fall asleep exhausted but happy.

This was all one day.

[liusia-piu]

[bellzsad]

please put your reasonings in the comments!!

[pythagoras180]

Why the season 4 "arc" between Ladybug and Cat Noir is terrible

The Setup

So, what was the conflict in this arc about exactly? It's been years, and I'm still not totally sure. It probably has something to do with trust, or if "Kuro Neko" is to be believed, it's just about Cat Noir's unrequited feelings. Sometimes Cat Noir is complaining about her utilizing other superheroes, sometimes it's about them not knowing each other's identities (even though this season explained why that rule is in place), and sometimes he's just complaining about being in the dark.

I think the reason some people think there was actual substance here is because of how the the show frames it like Cat Noir is actually being mistreated by Ladybug. But the problem is that there's no real moment where he actually is mistreated. One of the cliches I hate most is when writers want there to be conflict between good guy characters, but they don't want one of them to actually do anything wrong, so then the other character just comes across as completely unreasonable and whiney. Honestly, as the season was airing, the argument could have been made that the problem was entirely with Cat Noir being insecure and selfish. But that argument goes out the window in the season finale, which we'll get to later. But the fact is that the only thing Ladybug is "guilty" of is utilizing the resources at her disposal and following a rule of secret identities that protects everyone.

The only exception to this is in the episode "Ephemeral". Ladybug actually does something wrong here, where she decieves Cat Noir into revealing his identity to Luka and Su-Han without his knowledge or consent. And honestly? This comes completely out of nowhere. The Ladybug throughout most of this season does not seem like the kind of person who would do that. It honestly feels shoved in to try to make Cat Noir's actions more justified. The problem with that is that Cat Noir doesn't actually know what Ladybug did, so this is no excuse.

So the fact that the arc doesn't define what the issue actually is or put the blame where it lies means that there's really nothing for the characters to learn here. I mean, the episode "Penalteam" tries to frame it like Ladybug's flaw is she wants to handle everything herself, which completely contradicts the narrative framing her use of other heroes as wrong. It's honestly just pure nonsense.

The Payoff

So the big payoff for this arc is the ending of the season finale, "Strike Back". Ladybug suffers a massive loss, apologizes to Cat Noir for everything, and he chooses to stick with her despite everything. On paper, this looks like an amazing payoff. And plenty of people did find it emotional, even me at first. But once you actually peel back the layers, you'll see that it's completely hollow.

Let's start with Ladybug's defeat. Honestly, the writers completely rigged the situation to make her lose. Ladybug didn't fail because of a character flaw, there wasn't really a way she could have avoided what happened. Supposedly, her flaw was not trusting or depending on Cat Noir. But how exactly would her doing so here have changed the outcome? It's not like Cat Noir offered an alternative solution and she didn't listen. In fact, he disobeyed her orders and made the situation worse. So Ladybug's "flaw" played no part in this defeat.

Next, there's Ladybug's apology. Let's break down everything she says and see why it's nonsense. "I wanted to control everything" When exactly did Ladybug overstep? She never put overbearing limitations on Cat Noir. She acted like a perfectly reasonable leader. "I didn't listen to you" Listen about what exactly? When did Cat Noir tell her anything that she disregarded. "I lied to you" She did, in "Ephemeral". Too bad Cat Noir didn't know about that. And considering her lying ended up interrupted, it's honestly just the intent of lying. "I kept you at a distance" At the beginning of the season, they're actually much closer than they've ever been, as they hang out outside of battle. What exactly is Ladybug referring to here? The only thing I can think of is the Rena Furtive stuff, but there weren't any consequences to this and Cat Noir had no meaningful reaction when he found out the truth. "Every time you offered me a helping hand, I never took it" Like I just mentioned, Cat Noir never offered alternate solutions that she ignored. The only thing this might be referring to is the opening of "Kuro Neko", but it was clearly explained why he couldn't actually be helpful in collecting the Miraculouses, and he was obviously in the wrong there. So, since Ladybug never did anything actually wrong that Cat Noir knew about, this apology doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Cat Noir only ever complained about stuff that wasn't actually bad or her fault.

As for Cat Noir sticking with her, well again, that falls flat because she didn't do anything wrong to him. He'd have no reason to do anything else. And considering how much he complained about the other heroes, he's probably quite happy that they're gone now. Cat Noir is not making a sacrifice, he got exactly what he wanted.

So this payoff means absolutely nothing. Honestly, the framing is very good which is why it tricked so many people into liking it. But ultimately, the lack of any decent setup leads to a payoff that falls completely flat, even if the payoff itself is well written.

The Aftermath

If what I've talked about already wasn't bad enough, this arc also ultimately has no impact on the overall story.

If you're going to make an arc where Ladybug learns to trust and depend on Cat Noir (which she always did, but whatever), then the obvious effect that should have moving forward is that Ladybug should choose to trust him in a situation she previously wouldn't have, and she would benefit because of this. Except, there is nothing like this. Throughout all of season 5, there is not a single moment where Ladybug puts more trust in Cat Noir than before. I know that the moment that most would point towards is the season 5 premier, "Evolution", where she trusts Cat Noir with the Rabbit Miraculous. Hmmm, Ladybug trusting Cat Noir with a time Miraculous. I guess that is a new thing. Wait, no it's not, that literally already happened in "Miracle Queen". So Ladybug is just doing something she already did 2 seasons ago. And there's also no real benefit to this. Cat Noir didn't do anything with it that Ladybug wouldn't have done if she chose to use it herself. So this moment is completely substanceless. This is not a new level of trust, and Ladybug doesn't actually benefit from her "growth". And it doesn't help that this is the only moment that might qualify as the aftermath of the arc. Throughout the rest of the season, Ladybug displays absolutely no amount of exceptional trust in Cat Noir. And ultimately, it probably would have been better if Ladybug instead learned not to depend on Cat Noir, as he ends up playing no role in the final battle, and she has to handle everything alone.

So in the end, the so called arc in season 4 had a poor setup that didn't have Ladybug display actual flaws, a poor payoff that has Ladybug lose because of factors beyond her control, and an aftermath where the "lesson" she learned plays absolutely no part in the events that follow. I genuinely think that the reason this arc exists is just as filler, and to create meaningless drama for fans to talk about.

[familyagrestefanblog]

You know what's so sad about how badly Ladynoir got nuked that it actually turns around to be funny again?

Not only did Marinette telling Chat Noir that she'll never abandon him loose all meaning in season 5 because she left after being told "no" by him once (and she already wanted to leave before Plagg initiated his plan:

I know, its almost like the show is going out of its way to nuke Ladynoir) and proceeded to not think about making sure it's at least Scarabella again who Chat Noir will be meeting after last episode to try and prevent the same "new Ladybug" disaster she said she was sorry for from happening again. And who has to tell him the bad news that this time Ladybug left for good and that it was him saying "no" that caused it.

So exactly all the problems with Hack-San again just for real and WORSE, and even the fear he was talking about at the end - that one day it wouldn't be her and he'll never see her again.

It is incredibly difficult for me to be upset with Adrien for leaving bc of all this. Even if I want to. Marinette's side is just so much worse again

But, no. That's not it!

Even the one and only tini-tiny thing she actually DID manage to remember him for while she threw the darkest red-alert situation at him in "Hack-San", it still ended up ringing pretty much hollow by the end of season 5.

I swear, not a single Ladynoir excuse for Marinette in "Hack-San" is in any way holding up. It's insane.

Cause not ONCE in all of season 4 and 5 does Marinette as Ladybug laugh at anything Chat Noir says. She straight up acknowledged it towards Alya that it makes him happy and she seriously never once does.

That is... genuinely sad. Not sad as in pathetic, just deeply saddening.

And even the few times when civilian Marinette laughs with Chat Noir, I can't remember it ever being at his jokes. It happens when other civilians are bothered by them in the cinema in "Glaciator 2" and in "Elation" when she's having fun at the date in general and later when Adrien tries to be silly while explaining something and then Marinette laughs at Chat being frustrated at himself for not being able to put what he wants to say into words.

But all of these cases are not her laughing at his jokes the way she literally said she knows makes him happy. So she's still not doing it.

Wait, no. When Marichat get the ice cream in "Elation". At least thats a moment where Marinette actively laughs at a joke Chat made. Although, she revealed in "Hack-San" that she would do so, too, even if she didn't think it's funny at all and that unfortunately does leave a very sour taste in my mouth:

Person B being the only one who genuinely laughs at person A's jokes is such a popular trope for a reason and it stings knowing that even that doesn't truly apply here.

The trope was ironically recycled into Adrien thinking Marinette's behavior is funny which he then in season 5 got shamed for by the narrative when he then found out that he was laughing at her trauma responses and he beats himself up for it (what a weird writing decision, honestly)

But Marinette as Ladybug for some reason just continued to be written to not laugh to make Chat Noir happy (even when she was oh so in love with him in the beginning of season 5) and that puts the genuineness of the rare times she does into question bc Marinette is apparently just willing to fake it every blue moon.

But I guess, credit where credit is due. She did indeed do the thing she said she knows makes Chat Noir happy ONE TIME in 52 episodes. Only as civilian, though. And mind you, she left the next episode and previously said that her laughing doesn't mean she actually thinks he's funny.

But one questionable time is better than non, right ?