#OKAY RANT ABOUT THE SP FANDOME SORRY!

[sappy-detective]

[shadowsndaisies]

Where? [s.p.]

Fandom: Riverdale

Pairing: Sweet Pea

WC: 2799

Status: to post

Synopsis: where the reader got her serpent tattoo on her pubic bone and so no one’s ever actually seen it, except FP who gave it to her and Toni whos hand she squeezed while she got it. Both boys are interested and so jughead soon becomes too. Leading to things heating up between longtime friend Sweet Pea and the Reader. Takes place in between seasons 2 and 3.

warnings: nothing much, gets kind of pg 13 steamy towards the end.

masterlist

“What?” you asked as you approached your lunch table.

Sweet Pea, Fangs, Jughead and Cheryl all had their eyes trained on you, Toni was rolling her eyes.

“Are you sure she even got one?” Cheryl asked and your eyebrows furrowed as you set your lunch tray down and sat down.

“She, who? And got what?” you pressed.

“You, babe. They’re talking about you,” Toni told you and your eyes widened.

“Me? What about me?” you questioned.

“Your tattoo,” Toni stated and you held a silent conversation with her.

“As I said, boys, she probably doesn’t have one,” Cheryl stated once more.

“I have one,” you tell her.

“Where?” Fangs cut in and your eyebrow raised.

“Does it matter?” you ask.

“Yes, because how can we really know if you have one if no one’s ever seen it?” Cheryl pressed.

Sweet Pea was silently analyzing you.

“You could trust me? And people have seen it,” you offer.

“Darling, you can’t trust anybody,” Cheryl negated.

“What people?” Jughead jumped into the conversation.

“For starters, your dad. He’s the one who gave me my tattoo, Toni’s the other one,” you tell your friends.

“My dad gave you, your super secret tattoo that no one else has ever seen?” Jughead squinted.

“And Toni’s seen it but not me?” Sweet Pea pressed.

“Toni was with me when I got it,” you shrugged.

“Toni and not me?” Sweet Pea repeated.

“Get over it dude, she likes me better,” Toni smirks.

“You know lunch actually looks okay today,” you divert.

“Nice transition, real smooth,” Fangs snorted.

“Shut it Fogarty,” you mutter, taking your fork and stabbing at the pathetic looking salad on the left side of your tray.

It went quiet for a moment and you had released a soft breath when the silence broke again. “Where is it then?” Cheryl pushed.

“On me,” you answered vaguely.

“Aw TT look she thinks she’s being cute,” Cheryl gave me a blinding smile as her voice dripped with sarcasm and Toni simply shook her head.

“She has a serpent tattoo, end of story, okay?” Toni said once again and for the rest of the lunch period, everyone left the topic alone.

It wasn’t until that evening when we were all at Pop’s getting dinner did the topic resurface. It was just you and the boys now, Toni had gone back to Thistle House with Cheryl for the night and Jughead was off doing the Nancy Drew thing with Betty.

“Here you go, sweetheart,” Fp smiled setting an (f/flavor) milkshake in front of you.

“Thank you FP,” you smiled back bringing the cold glass closer to take a sip.

“Boys,” FP continued setting two more glasses down on the table for the boys across from you.

“Why does she get ‘sweetheart’ and we get ‘boys’?” Fangs asked.

“Because she deserves it, and you’re lucky I don’t call you two by what you deserve,” FP jokes tucking the serving tray under his arm.

“FP our girl here says you gave her, her serpent tattoo,” Sweet Pea cut in and you couldn’t help but roll your eyes.

“This again?” you ask.

“Actually I want to know about this too,” it was the voice of Betty Cooper as she slid into the seat beside you. “All day I’ve heard multiple different people complain about your elusive tattoo,” Betty smiled.

“It exists alright, one of my best works, if I say so myself,” FP nodded, clasping Jughead on the shoulder as Jug slid in after Betty.

“Then show us,” Fangs prompted.

“Boy, this girl has saved your ass, how many times? If she wants to show you, she’ll show you,” FP defended before sending you a wink and walking away.

“Where is it?” Betty whispered while Jughead was talking to Fangs and Sweet Pea.

You couldn’t help but roll your eyes but as you met her blue ones you could tell she wanted to know, and you knew you could trust Betty, she had never given you a reason not to. And she wouldn’t make a joke or tell anyone, not even Jughead, not unless you told her she could.

Discreetly you turned your head and you were about to whisper and tell her when Sweet Pea slammed his hand on the table causing both you and Betty to jump in your seat.

“(Y/n) I swear to god if you’re telling Betty Cooper before me, I will never give you a ride anywhere, ever,” Sweet Pea’s voice was serious and your face sobered before you turned back to Betty and offered her a sorry smile.

“Sorry B,” you shrugged.

Betty let out a little short annoyed huff before crossing her arms and settling back against the booth.

A week went by before anyone else asked you about your tattoo, Toni had mentioned that the boys were still trying to find out, though Cheryl had given up, her attention had moved elsewhere. It was Saturday, and Friday had been a late night. Reggie Mantle and Sweet Pea had nearly gotten into another fight, one you were able to prevent. Then you spent the following 5 or so hours listening to SP rant about “stupid northsiders”, playing pool, and drinking. So when you feel someone shaking you to wake you up you can’t help but groan.

“Leave me alone,” you mumbled as you tried to turn further into your bed.

“Get up, we gotta talk,” It was Toni and her voice seemed to snap you awake.

“Why?” You sighed a hand coming up to rub your face and pinch your nose.

“Is she going to wake up?” you heard Fangs grumbled as his boots stomped into your room.

“I’m up,” you mumbled.

“Jughead wants to know about last night,” Toni told you and you shifted back under your blanket.

“Take her blanket away!” Sweet Pea shouted and you groaned as you felt the plushy dark green blanket being pulled from your body.

Fangs let out a whistle, “Nice underwear (Y/n),” he laughed and you groaned again.

You had probably only had the mental capacity to strip your jeans and go to bed, the fact that your bra was still on and uncomfortably poking your chest was proof enough. Though you were glad you were wearing a rather nice pair, dark green with lace, cheeksters.

“Fuck off Fogarty,” you held up your middle finger as you stretched your arms up.

You should’ve been a little embarrassed probably but honestly at the moment you didn’t care, plus the boys had seen you like this before. Fights where you got cut up, you’d strip from your jeans so Toni or someone could fix your leg. Sweet Pea, Fangs and Toni had probably seen you like this more than a handful of times and yet every time Fangs felt the need to make a comment.

“Holy Shit!” Fangs shouted, “Sweet Pea! I found the fucking tattoo!”

Your eyes finally adjusted to the sunlight and you saw Fangs staring at your side, Toni was rolling her eyes and the sounds of boots rushing towards your door made the pounding in your head a bit worse.

You looked down and realized the way your underwear rested on your hips at the moment showed off your pelvic bone, and right there, clear as day, you could see the serpent tattoo.

“Where?” Sweet Pea asked as he stumbled into your room, Jughead right behind him.

Fangs seemed incapable of speaking and so he pointed and then you rolled your eyes.

“Toni, can you hand me a pair of shorts please,” you asked the girl who was standing by your closet.

She pulled a pair of workout shorts from the second drawer and tossed them to you. Taking them and standing up you slipped them on and walked towards the boys, “C’mon I’m hungover and hungry.”

“It was on your fucking hip, the entire time?” Sweet Pea grumbled as you all slid into a booth at Pops.

“No, it was on my fucking pelvic bone the entire time. That’s why none of you have seen it. And that’s why Toni went with me,” you explain, moving some of your eggs and potatoes around before stuffing your face with a forkful.

“All this time, it’s been there, how have we never noticed?” Fangs asked.

“Well, it’s not like we were exactly looking,” Jughead offered offhandedly.

Fangs continued as if he hadn’t heard jughead, “I mean, how many times have we all gone swimming? Huh? Or what about all the strip poker games and semi-nude streaking?” Fangs was listing just about every little thing that could include your tattoo being revealed and the funny part was that it had always been there.

“Wait, semi-nude streaking?” Jughead cut back in.

“It was a dare,” Sweet Pea grumbled.

“Wait, you too?” Jughead’s eyes narrowed across the table at Sweet Pea.

“Sweets was the one who got dared,” you chuckled. “I was there for...let’s say moral support.”

“How were you only semi-nude?” Jughead asked.

“She still had her bra and underwear on and Sweet Pea had his briefs but that was it,” Fangs smirked, proudly. It had been, after all, his dare.

“And yet you didn’t see the tattoo until today?” Jughead pressed.

“We were never looking!” Sweet Pea exclaimed and a smile flitted to your lips. “It was right under our fucking noses and we never realized.”

“Literally,” Toni giggled and you shook your head.

“I guess you can tell Cheryl now,” you shrugged.

“I can’t wait to hear what she’s going to say,” Toni shook her head.

You turned back to the table as FP came by and refilled your coffee mug, “Thanks FP.”

“No problem, sweetheart,” he smiled.

As you added some milk to the coffee 2 sugar packets were slid over to you, your eyes flicked up and made eye contact with Sweet Pea who offered a small smile. Everyone was in their own conversations and Sweets was giving you a look, one you weren’t sure how to interpret.

“Thanks,” you mouthed tearing the packets open and dumping them into the mug before mixing it with your spoon, Sweets offered a wink in response.

A few hours later Toni was back with Cheryl, Jughead was off with Betty, Fangs was god knows where and Sweets was driving you back to your trailer. As you got off the bike you pulled the helmet off and tucked it under your arm and turning back to Sweet Pea.

“What would I do without you?” you joked with a smile.

“Walk,” He said seriously, “a crap tone of walking.”

You laughed with him at that, because he wasn’t wrong, Sweets had been giving you rides since he could drive.

“What are you going to do with your downtime?” you asked him and he looked around before turning back to you.

“What are you doing?” he asked instead.

“Movies?” you offer.

He smiled turning the engine off before grabbing his keys and following you back into your trailer. You threw your hair up in a ponytail and grabbed your laptop from the counter. Sweets had already kicked off his boots and slumped onto your sofa, his legs propped up on the coffee table. You opened up a movie from Netflix and fell on the sofa, moving your head to his lap while adjusting your laptop to the middle of the coffee table. About halfway through the movie, you became aware of the fact that Sweet Pea had undone your bun and was playing with your hair, you glance quickly to him but realize his focus is still on the screen of your laptop and so you smile a bit before looking back as well. When the movie ends you’re quite comfortable and very relaxed, the way SP was moving his hand through your hair was putting you in a very warm sense of comfort.

“I wanna see it,” he said, finally.

“Hmm?” you hummed, your eyes were shut as you breathed softly, too comfy where you were.

“Your tattoo, I didn’t really get to see it this morning, I’d like to, if that’s okay with you,” he continued and you were silent a moment, in fact, he thought you might’ve fallen asleep.

Really, you were thinking it through, sure Sweet’s had seen you in just your underwear a few different times but this was a little different, this would be purposefully taking off your pants so he could basically stare at your pelvic bone. But this was Sweet Pea, someone you trusted, the one who always had your back, and he was the one who gave any guy who looked at you the wrong way nightmares. So you made your decision.

“ mmkay,” you yawned as you sat back up, his hand falling from your hair. You stood and brought your hands to the waistband of your shorts, you were acutely aware of how intensely Sweet Pea was staring at your hands and it made you feel nervous, he seemed to have picked up on it because his gaze moved to your eyes, and he gave you a look of reassurance and curiosity. He kept his eyes on yours as you pushed your shorts down, his eyes didn’t leave yours until you nodded. You stepped out of your shorts and walked closer to him so that you were stood right before him. One of his hands came in contact with your leg, right above your knee while the other rose to the waistband of your underwear, the way it was now resting blocked most of the design. His eyes met yours once again silently asking for permission. You nodded and the room was silent as he slipped a finger into the waistband to pull it up a bit higher, showing off your full tattoo. That hand moved to hold your hip and you could feel the warmth radiating from him as your skin felt as if it were slightly on fire where his hands were on your body. But both of those places didn’t feel as hot as where SP’s gaze was focused, you blushed under the intensity which he was watching you with.

His thumb grazed over the tattoo, following the design of the two-headed snake and a sort of trill went through your body. Sweet Pea was in your opinion a fine looking man. He was tall, strong, and while not everyone gave him credit, pretty fucking clever. You’ve always had a bit of a crush on him but you were friends and that was something you cared way too much about. But now with the way he was looking at your hip and at you as you stood in a cropped t-shirt and your underwear, this seemed too intimate for friends.

“Fuck,” he muttered.

“What?” you asked, your voice a bit raspy.

His eyes flickered to yours and you swear they seemed a bit darker.

“You’re fucking gorgeous,” he said with no hesitation and you blushed a little harder as his grip on you tightened. “And this, his thumb rubbed over the tattoo once more, the feeling it gave you was incredible, “is so fucking hot,” he all but groaned and you licked your lips.

You made a decision. You were already over the line between friendship and something else, and you wanted something else. He was still gripping you and you moved, suddenly straddling him where he sat so you now face to face, your heart was beating fast and you could feel it under your hand, his was too. The look in his eyes was everything you needed as you leaned forwards hands moving from his chest to his shoulders as your lips met. From his shoulders to his neck as he kissed you back. From his neck to his hair as the kiss became deeper and more passionate. You reveled in the groan he gave as you tugged a bit on his hair, in the feeling on his hands as one stayed planted on your hip, thumb rubbing the tattoo and the other that moved a bit further, closer to your ass.

He revealed in the small sounds you made as he kissed you, in the way your body was responding as he pressed his as close as he could to you. And that’s where the two of you stayed for the rest of the evening, lips meshed together, hands exploring the other and hearts beating fast. And you listened to everything he said in between. All the little praises he gave as you kissed along his neck, especially when you lips covered his serpent tattoo, to his confession of never wanting to let go of you. But your favorite was the rough tone he gave when he warned you that no other guy would ever get to see your tattoo.  

[vaingloriosa]

If it's not too much of a bother can I ask what s/e//lfships-in-sp/a//nish did? I remember seeing her art around when I was into DBH for a bit. (Emphasis on was)

first off, congrats on getting off that dbh juice! very proud of you for leaving that part of your life behind. love that for u!!

i’ve actually been meaning to make a post like this. in order to fully answer your question, there has to be a little bit of vulnerability on my part. it’s something that has taken me awhile to process and heal (i’ve only talked to a handful of people about this) from but i am at a point where i think i am ready to talk about it. please note that i am only answering this for y’all to know the truth; this is not me trying to stir the pot and cause any drama. if you still follow her, i am not the all-knowing moral authority to tell you to stop following her but what i will say is to hear me out and reconsider who you give your support to.

there might be some things that i am missing because i don’t like remembering any of this but i will try my best. i will not be using any names in order to protect these people’s identities, even if some of these people did hurt me. again, i am not here to callout anybody, i am not here to say “officer! this person right here!” because this is not what this is all about. i am only here to give you my experience with SSIS (her username for short). also, i do not have screenshots, i deleted the server, and there is no evidence to support me. i didn’t want to keep such baggage around and wanted to just move on...and i hope you can trust me with what i am about to say.

SSIS and i were like two peas in a pod. when we found one another in the dbh fandom, i looked up to her. i thought she was one of the greatest artists in dbh and i felt so intimated by her. soon, i think she was the one contacted me and from there, it was like an instant click. we got to talking and it felt like we were friends for a long time. slowly, in private messages, SSIS and i were often vulnerable with one another. i talked about the things i have to face as a latina woman, and she talked about her own struggles. i thought i was being open and honest with another woman of color but it wasn’t until way later that i found out that she is a white woman. that is something to keep in mind as we go further down the line.

there were some things that she said about other people that felt like she was trying to persuade me from keeping my distance from. i will not name names of these blogs but they were also fairly popular in the dbh fandom and it felt strange the way she got so angry and heated over people i called my friends. sadly, i was influenced by her comments because i started to internalize her words and became weary of these people since she said that they, too, were secretly talking about her and had their own clique. this is something that has taken a lot to unlearn because words can hold a lot of weight. this really should’ve been my first warning, a red flag, but i kept being friends with SSIS because, well, i trusted her and i considered her a good friend of mine. i wanted to defend her honor, i wanted to stick up for her as she did for me. i thought she was on my side as i was hers.

then i created a server for my mutuals and followers.

things were going great, everyone was getting along, we were all making inside jokes, and just supporting one another. slowly, there were events that started to unfold that truly revealed the true nature of who SSIS is as a person. it started out with when there started to be an inner circle within my server. it was SSIS, three other dbh content creators, and another reader of mine. now, i loved that they slowly started to become really good friends with another. however, it slowly started to feel like they were becoming like an exclusive club where SSIS became the head person of the group. i had my suspicions confirmed when i saw that they created their own personal server which, again, it’s okay to make your own server when you have your own friends. but the thing is...they felt withdrawn from the rest of the group and me. it’s like they tried to distance themselves away from me and me only. now there’s another part that i really...don’t like talking about. this part...it’s something that i never fully...grasped. whenever i think about it, it makes me sick to my stomach. the one person that was a reader of mine is a minor and these four adults friended this minor. again, as long as you are respectful with one another, it’s okay to have a friendship. however, this friendship became a bit inappropriate when they were sharing NSFW content with the minor in the server. they even encouraged such behavior from them....and i remember having a talk with my mods of the server saying how that was super fucking odd and kind of disgusting. i didn’t even wanna know what was going in in that private server. this should’ve been the second red flag, but i gave the benefit of the doubt.

however, this wasn’t the penultimate thing.

you know by now that i am a vocal person when it comes to activism. i do not shy away from hot topics because i want people to be informed and be comfortable in the uncomfortable. some of my mutuals often asked me what i meant when i said “all white people” or when i said that white people are responsible for this and that and i was okay with answering these questions because, hey, you’re not gonna learn if you don’t ask questions. at first, i was willing to teach my white friends about some of the things that contribute to the oppression of people of color and what their white privilege meant but what i should’ve learned sooner rather than later was that i can’t always assume the role of teacher. 

and there are some things that must come from a white person in order for them to recognize their privilege, realize their behavior, and come up with ways to do better, and put action towards that.

sometimes that’s better said than done. some of the white friends that i had in that server were kinda agitated by all my “accusations” of all white people but i kept reminding them that when i say that, i only mean this type or that type...but if the shoe fit? i could tell that SSIS was just not understanding any of that...but she never really said that. but here i thought she was a woman of color because she said that her specific group of spaniards faced oppression. i do want to say that it is partially my part for not putting two and two together that spaniards are europeans and are not considered people of color, no matter the region. however, the way she spoke of her struggles made me want to believe that she was. it’s a stupid reason, i will say that. even when typing this, i still can’t believe i thought she was a woman of color...and i want to try to make excuses but really, i should’ve been more informed. but the more i think about it, SSIS should’ve been the one to correct me, stop me, and tell me that she isn’t a woman of color, that she is european. you don’t lie about one’s identity like that just because you think being called a woman of color gets you some sort of clout. people think that being “hispanic” also covers spainards and i fell into that trap. SSIS shouldn’t have kept up the lie like that. that should’ve been the third red flag but i wanted to attribute that to them learning and growing.

the catalyst seemed to be when notre dame burned. an empty church building, mind you. the way that her and the rest of her group were viciously attacking my friends of the server for making jokes about it, forcing one to apologize for doing nothing wrong, and quite literally foaming at the mouth for some silly symbol of colonization by europeans...i was kind of taken aback by it. i remember being in the car with my sister and her boyfriend and reading the messages out loud and they started to laugh because c’mon! it was ridiculous that they were defending this building! this should’ve been my fourth red flag, but once again, i believe people can change.

it became quiet after that, real quiet. i know some of my mods decided to take a break from the server after such a heated argument that was initiated by SSIS. slowly but surely, the server started to pick up again and for that i was grateful that this didn’t completely severe any trust. though i did notice the absence of SSIS and her little friend group. it became more blatantly obvious that these people have separated themselves from us. the private conversation that i still held with SSIS slowed down to more sporadic messages. however, i still supported her and her art. i donated money to her, i even offered to help her buy a website for her art and merch. the support from those friends dwindled down but i continued to support their content no matter what. i wanted to let them know that even though we may have some differences, we can overcome these challenges and support one another.

gosh, sorry, i started...getting teary eyed from remembering this because it comes to show that internet friends...you don’t always truly know them.

i’m not 100% sure when this started to occur, whether it was before the big fight or afterwards but i slowly started to realize that these people were not my friends. as y’all are aware, i started to have a steady disinterest in dbh and often was vocal about that. given that, everyone is allowed to criticize media so my opinions are my own. i was trying to fight for a better community for the dbh fandom, i was trying to fight for my voice and my fellow stans of color to have their voices and stories heard. i believe that SSIS was on my side because she, too, agreed with me for wanting a better fandom where fans of color are taken seriously and are recognized. i thought she was willing to fight for me because she, too, was disappointed that nothing ever come about my rants and awareness. however, that wasn’t the same tune she and her friends were singing. when i brought up racism in fandom and transformative fanworks, i was met by such a response by one white author (who has her own story with me, but i am not sure if i should talk about but she apparently tried to get in contact with me to apologize but as of today, i still haven’t heard from her) who said that it was up to me to create the content that i want to see...and that is a very racist thing to say. the responsibility shouldn’t fall on me or on the shoulders of my fellow people of color. i could go off on a tangent but...lemme bring this back to what i wanted to say.

when that decline started to happen, i was becoming more and more aware that two people from this inner circle, SSIS and that other white author, were making vague tweets about me. they, too, also started to make vague posts about me as well. they started talking so...horribly about me and the things i felt so passionately about...that these things hurt like hell. fuck, crying again...um, i don’t remember specific wordings but i do remember that they were specifically about me...and they were posting that while i was still following them. that’s what hurt the most...because they knew i was going to read these tweets and these posts...so i talked it over with my mods, cried a bit about it, and they held my hand while i unfollowed them quietly from twitter, tumblr, and instagram. even despite it all, i was so....it was hard to unfollow them. i don’t know why...they hurt me so why did i feel like i was betraying them? i unfollowed everyone from that friend group except for the reader of mine because i gave him the benefit of the doubt, i wanted to believe that he was merely influenced by them to do things he was against, and i hoped that he, too, would recognize what they were doing was wrong. 

then it happened. all hell broke lose.

it started with the white author who posted a public message on the general server channel that i would’ve rather have had her sent that personally to me than just having this out in the open for everyone to see. since this isn’t about her, i will save my commentary and just say that it was kinda hurtful to read. 

then, i guess that white author gave the confidence of SSIS who dropped a very long and personal message on the server that was one of the most vile, vicious, and racist things i have ever read in my entire life. she began the message with “now that you unfollowed me on twitter, i can really tell you what’s on my mind” and typed up one of the most ugliest and most wicked messages...i wish i knew what it all said but i remember reading it....and crying. it broke my heart knowing that this woman, someone i considered my friend, someone i trusted, someone that i shared a lot of vulnerable shit with, someone that i thought i looked up to...someone i cared for....harbored such hatred towards me. slowly i began to see that she kept up a front with me, kept those feelings at bay, and waited until i slipped or something so that she had an excuse to air out what she thought was “dirty laundry”. to this day, it’s one of the most traumatic things that has ever happened to me.

after that happened, i deleted the server as it served as a reminder of what transpired. i apologized to everyone on my server though there wasn’t anything on my part to apologize for but i felt like i had to. all of last year was one of the most difficult years i have ever been through because it made me second guess myself, my abilities, and i became incredibly weary of white women (even more so than before). i lost any motivation to write, i lost any creative spark i had before that time, and just...completely became a shell of myself. it sounds so dramatic and silly of me...but it felt like i was in some sort of weird sad episode where i couldn’t control my impulses. i deleted a lot of my work, i deleted a lot of my content from my blog, even content i was proud of. even outside of the internet, i was...withdrawn. i tried to throw myself into working but i didn’t even have that drive to do that. i wanted to get over it so badly because i didn’t want to give up like that. i became withdrawn from others, i closed myself from speaking up about what happened because it hurt to open up a huge wound like that. plus, i couldn’t really talk about this with my family or my other friends because it’s like “hey, this one internet friend that i had turned out to be a racist snake” like it sounds wild to be upset about that. it felt silly to me because my gosh, this is the internet! nothing is real! everything is so...trivial. but what happened with SSIS last year is something that i haven’t 100% healed from but i have come a long way since april of 2019 and i am proud of myself despite how it doesn’t feel like i have healed much. also i don’t remember most of 2019 if we are being honest. however, just a few days ago i got a notification from a tweet she had tagged me in but instead of panicking, i kinda laughed? about it? rolled my eyes? that’s growth, babeyy!

if you are a follower of hers, you do what you want with this information. like i said before, i am not going to tell you what to do. you are the one to ultimately make that decision. whether you decide to send screenshots to her of this ask, whether you choose to defend her honor in my inbox, call me a liar, block her, idc but whatever you do, please don’t send her hate anons or hateful asks...i do not endorse that behavior whatsoever. thank y’all for hearing me out

[crowbean]

LOL. IM BLAMING YEW @sasusakusss for roping me into this (WELL it’s not like you can foresee my uppity dumbass of zero self-control would write a tangent like that. so, it was entirely my fault. but you’re the trigger.)

Respond to this post

http://sunagakurenosato.tumblr.com/post/178178386806/crowbean-sasusakusss-fineillsignup

@sunagakurenosato

Here, lets talk in my post. Because i feel bad enough for the OP for writing a tangent, when their post is about Yamato.

First Diclaimer : I’m not justifying child abuse with war (I know you didn’t accuse me of that. But just to be safe, tumblr is full of bored people who wants a villain)

Second Disclaimer : I just put it there for anyone who’s so frustrated about “HOW SUCH AN EVIL COULD GETAWAY WITH THIS= MUST BE BAD WRITING”. I put out that reference, to show that bad writing could accidentally be a reflection of our world hence a starting point for a story with real questions. I admit, it was my mistake to put it out there without framing what I meant and it could be misunderstood as me justifying something so inhuman.

1.    To answer your first paragraph (and possibily the last parts??) :

I mean you did wrote “They were secretly given immunity. Secretly. Because it wasn’t right. Because the United States of America wanted to keep that information to themselves and prevent other countries (Soviet Union) from accessing this information.” So are you saying the “means” : that is letting someone who commit such atrocities go scot free. Is justified by the “end” : getting useful information?(which by the way, you really have no basis to say if the US, at that time, just took that information to safeguard it and not to use it to hurt more people for the sake of “fighting the reds”) *i digress, but this kinda show my point how it raises quite a question*

I put that part of reality there because it’s one of those things that makes you think if “justice” is only there out of the convenience for the powerful?  I know it’s stupid of me to think about that kind question for a kids show. But I felt like audience grew up. We all grew up to realize 90% of what Naruto preached is a lie although with a golden heart. And I just want that ideal to be dissected and upgraded. Even though i currently don’t know how, but that’s why I put that reference there. So maybe a smarter, better writer out there could look at that part of reality and churn out some light of “how do we retain ourselves in such a world?” through this fiction that has a parallel scenario of that reference, which is orochimaru’s freedom.

+ I’m sorry that im not making it clear that I see the War crime immunity as a VERY VERY wrong thing. That threw me into an existential crisis when I watched the documentary, I felt hungered to concoct a “light” through the bad show that has been imprinted into my childhood.

2.    About gaara and sunagakure :

My memory is hazy about gaara vs the two goons, but all I remember is he dramatically fight on air when every suna ninja is watching in awe, drooling, doing nothing, because their president is flying, only to fucking try to help gaara when he already fainted, with canons. Creating a useless dramatic firework scene as he was kidnapped.

Okay, fine. You favour the “Why” than the execution, fair enough. The scene’s stupid but it does “redempt” gaara in a way. I get it.

And also the talk no jutsu part… like I said, the message has its heart on the right place. But you have to admit that’s weak writing, especially in these times when we are surrounded by so many depressed people, who do lesser things than “gaara”, that cannot be “talked out” from their illness. But it does could be interpreted as “people who’s mentally ill needs friendship” and okay fine, i could stretch that.

I did wrote “Debatably shit since then” because that part that i deem “weak writing” is one of the part where Kishimoto’s writing is starting to wobble. a telling sign it could go worse in the end. which it did.

3.    About Yamato :

Now.. the ending is the Tumble after that long long wobble Kishimoto has had since the end of part one. Well I don’t know what you can get out of that, maybe I could stretch it like into “people change->orochimaru dun wrong things to help people this time UWU”. + “yamato’s sense of duty”+other bullshit? It’s not the first time audience have stretch kishi’s weak writing into something meaningful. I’m not here to debate if you can or can’t justify that. but we know there’s a slew of people out there that would go to hell and back to justify why Orochimaru deserves redemption (Which, I don’t think he deserves, because.. in my standards, even Gaara redemption should be death, a 13 year old that considers murder as self-expression is just long gone (but no, he’s too hot for death, -popularity polls disapprove))

Look..I’m just tired of how people would go to such lengths to justify some characters, when the some other character they despise could also be justified if subjected into the same mental gymnastics.

I’m just tired of people still ranting about the ending when people with any senses all agreed that Kishimoto dun goofed. He goofed because the inhuman standards Shonen Jump put upon their mangakas, he goofed after drawing/writing/composing/world-building to produce every single week, he goofed after giving half of his life to the manga only to have time for a honeymoon after the series ended, he Goofed and the fandom just kept throwing salt into that wound. 

I just put that reference there, in the hopes that people could just stop complaining about a HUMAN ERROR on Kishimoto’s part (a human error that SP danced with) and either just fucking Ignore it (in favour of better kids show out there) or just turn it into a story one would want to ponder (which I was, in a way, trying to do and share one of the reference I used)

“But there is no examination of things in that scenario, as far as I know (which could be wrong cuz I haven’t been updated), which I believe is important in effective story telling. The why is important. The story can be about wholly problematic things– but if the point it’s getting to is good, reasonable, logical, believable, the audience can be okay with that.”

I’m sorry, I don’t really understand this paragraph?? But I hope I already answered you on my point one

ALso im sorry if i misunderstood what you are saying. I’m sorry if i was digressing too much??  I felt what i wrote is relevant currently, but i often got it wrong :,). im also sorry if im being redundant. I double checked my writing, but there’s a possibility that i wrote something wrong.

[slashers-hell]

Anon: I don't remember what I said exactly from the first two. I pretty much hate how the Sakura fandom making me dislike her character even more because they are hypocrites. You can't blame Kishi, SP, etc. for Sakura, yet at the same time bash Sasuke hell and back because he was an "asshole" towards Sakura. And that Sakura pretty much put herself in that situation in canon; I have no reason to feel sorry for her or ship LeeSaku because "she deserved better". I feel like I'm force to pity her.

Sakura deserves someone better like Lee, yet ignore canon where Sakura legit rejected every guy and chased only after Sasuke. I don’t want to say Sakura deserved what she asked for, but this whole “Sakura deserved better” is just [lol]. She deserved better writing, but I will not feel pity over some fictional character who was created only for the sake of a love triangle. Sakura isn’t the worst heroine in shounen, in my opinion, but she is not a well written character. I couldn’t feel her in Part (3) 

1, she was okay at the beginning of Part 2…until, again [lol]. I still don’t feel her now, even as a single mother. I don’t understand this need for Sakura stans to put her on some throne, when, for me, she hasn’t done anything to deserve it in the slightest. I feel so rude, but I honestly believe that Sakura is a lot of the stans self-insert, considering Sakura is a “blank slate” character; I never meet a fandom that would take multishipping to this extreme (MultiSaku). I’m just so (4)

annoyed with how the fandom is so biased around Sakura and how I can’t even enjoy multishipping. (I was reading a KakaSaku fanfic and they had Sakura bash Sasuke’s face in; I realize KakaSaku ain’t for me with how so many are anti-Sasuke.) I’m like in the corner enjoying SasuSaku, because I know I carry an unpopular opinion. I went off topic, but I just need to rant how the Sakura fandom, yet again, makes everyone but Sakura the bad guy. Like I understand blaming Kishi and SP, but why is (5) 

Sasuke also to blame, when he was also written by Kishi and SP? Like I can understand anti-Sakura fans; this fandom wanks Sakura too hard, and romance seems to the only thing worthwhile about her. I hope my rant makes any sense at all. I just got a bit salty after reading that fanfic (her hate for Sasuke was too obvious). One day I’ll find a critical anti-ending/plot, pro-Sakura/SasuSaku blog that doesn’t ship MultiSaku or UchiSaku and isn’t anti-Sasuke. Sorry for the rant. (6) 

I feel like Sakura is put on too high on a pedestal of “Best Written/Tragic Heroines” when compared to other female characters in the manga, let alone every other series I have ever read, she is mediocre, at best. And that the Sasuke hate from pro-Sakura/SS/KS is only coming from the fact that Sasuke doesn’t treat Sakura as a queen. Even though Sakura herself choose that path in canon, what do they expect? Why blame Sasuke for what she herself had decided in canon? (End)

I agree with you, Anon. Now, I won’t make any judgement on her fandom, but your points are overall very valid to me. Sakura isn’t a badly written character per se; however, the way some people put her on a pedestal is confusing, at the very least. Having said that, I do not feel overly annoyed by that, nor do I care enough to actually put much thought into why people would overhype Sakura. Oddly enough, there are equally as much, if not more, people who greatly exaggerate Sakura’s flaws and portray her as one of the worst characters to have ever existed in manga and anime history. Personally, I view Sakura as a pretty decent character with flaws in development, and if it wasn’t for that, I’d even understand why others might regard her as well-written. The only issue I probably have with the fanatically pro-Sakura side (and mind you, this obviously does not apply to all of them) is that Sasuke is blamed for all of Sakura’s shortcomings. Besides the fact that I love Sasuke, I do not appreciate people who shift the blame onto someone else. Be it in real life or in fiction.

[ugamyrain]

Rain Rants again with her shitty unpopular opinion. (I might be burnt at the stake) This is long.

This is a piece about SasuSaku and NaruHina. Before I start, I should clarify: I have been a fan of both since the chuunin exams and I became an semi active-lurk member on the NF since Naruto Shippuden was released. This is my point of view about the whole ordeal since the fateful 5th of november of 2014 and how I see both fandoms in general now. If you are easily offended or nitpicky, please keep in mind this is only MY opinion and perspective.

Being in the SasuSaku fandom for a really long time has been bittersweet the same way as being in the NaruHina fandom at the same time, due to all the bickering between them when they have no basis to be mad at each other. Like, both of the fandoms became a competition about who is a better woman. In other words: they fight for the stupidest shit. Back then I would’ve sighed and felt conflicted and unable to voice an opinion because both pairing fandoms took it as a personal offense. Okay I am exagerating but most of the time it felt that way. Nowadays I laugh. And I know that I will get some fans offended by what I am about to say because SasuSaku fans are still very sensitive, and NaruHina fans, well I should say some are insufferable.

Both pairings had a lot to prove back then, I understood being defensive against people who slammed the pairings, mostly the hate directed towards the girls. Calling them names, insulting them with the overused insult of all: “useless”.

I could write a 1,500 character essay about my opinion of how Hinata became the untouchable overpowered goddess of the NaruHina fandom -considering the humble begginings of the couple- and why Sakura’s opinion about her character never changed - even though she was one of the most developed secondary characters.

I will not deny that Kishimoto’s writing of Sakura was never the best. As well as the writing for Hinata - it wasn’t the most gracious. The anime didn’t help either.  But what he could not make up for explicit development he tried to compensate it by writing their personality. And I would write another 2,500 essay explaining how this was good and bad for him.

However I can say this: I will not deny that Kishimoto’s cryptic writing, specially of Sasuke’s character, did not help Sakura’s case at all for people who were just watching without analyzing the scenes and panel by panel. Hinata’s case was more direct that’s why the popularity of Naruhina rose as the hate for the pairing did as well.

I understand Kishimoto’s need to retain all the shippers to keep reading and that’s why the red herrings were placed. And believe me, every time a red herring appeared it was hell for both of the pairings. Once the red herrings dissappeared it was clear that both pairings were meant to be. Period.

For fans it didn’t stop there. Both of the fandoms wanted to prove something, what that something was? Stupidity. Sorry but that’s how I felt that whole thing was.  (Imagine being a shipper for both of the pairings at the time. Not only fighting with the antis but also fighting between the pairings because... well they were fighting to see which girl had the bigger pussy- I couldn’t say dick because duh, but it was pretty much the whole fight).

My first bump with both of the fandoms  was with Naruto the Last. For some reason -well, instigated by the antis from both couples and the greatest shipping war there was at the time. And so a grueling 6 months battle began-, no one was satisfied. Criticism of the movie started to appear, but the shipping war got the best of both fandoms. It became infected by the antis with the valid questions: Why would Naruto wait 2 years? Why isn’t  there any Sasuke in the movie if Sasuke was spammed like junk mail in the trailers? Those questions were fair and we should’ve had a conversation as to why they would do it and move on, however at this point both of the fandoms were intoxicated. I tried to voice my opinions but I was one of the few who was seeing things in a different perspective... even the ones who were rooting for both pairings became toxic.

NaruHina fans had 4 reactions:

a- Inside the fanbase people were mad because 2 years it’s a long time, not realistic at all - and well, the development was really natural in the manga and the movie made the characters seem like they never spoke to each other at all after the war.

b- The image from the outsiders made them feel that Hinata was treated like a damsel in distress and the overall cliched plot- so, basically the fandom agreed and  they started to whine a lot.

c- The movie made Naruhina rejoice about the fan service the movie provided, but this also had negative consequences.- The most recurrent essay from the ones who liked both pairings began: “I love both pairings and I am happy for Hinata but...” forcing many of them to pick sides.

d- It all worsened by the attitude NaruHina fans took: “WE have only the best. WE have the movie. WE have the fanservice. WE are the best. Hinata was the queen all along. Hinata is stronger than... Naruhina is better than... Hinata, oh, Heil Hinata.”

I didn’t like it. I had to unfollow people I have followed since the NF days and I kept people who only liked both pairings... but even then...  there was one thing that I liked less.

Because of all of the glory Naruhina was sharing the SasuSaku fandom didn’t get much fanservice. After all the fight, we deserved something, right? Because Sakura went trhough hell to get the guy, right? After all the bickering with other fandoms, right? SasuSaku deserved have more scenes in the movie because of the trailers and moreover because SasuSaku was the main couple, right? Wrong.  

I understood where people came from when they said SasuSaku is the main couple, because well, they share a lot in part 1, it was the most developed from the 2 - well, 3 couples if we count ShikaTema-, at the time, but the truth is, since both couples did not depend one from the other, a plot involving the two would’ve been too convoluted. I guess one could say that it’s not impossible since other movies do this, but it was not a movie, it was a Naruto movie. A plot with Sasuke and Sakura’s involvement would’ve overshadowed the dynamic between Naruto and Hinata like maaaany times before. Kishimoto was forced time and time again to take Sasuke out of the picture for Naruto develop his bonds outside Team 7 not only with Hinata, but she was the most obvious of this technique.

Yes, I do understand the criticism Kishimoto had for overcomplicating things and that an arc in the manga would’ve been more fitting if he wanted to complicate it but it’s obvious that his plan was to leave it open for interpretation like he did at the end of 699. That was the end he wanted and it shows.

Most of the SasuSaku fans didn’t like it and the few that remained neutral regarding the movie were being infected little by little with each negative post. Because a double date movie was more fitting for Naruto: The Last, considering how much Sasuke there was in the trailers. The attitude of NaruHina fans did not help, it only fueled them. SasuSaku fans became extremely pessimistic. This was my second bump.

4 months passed, things were still tense I distanced myself from the fandom. SasuSaku was fighting with everybody. NaruHina was fighting with everybody. Naruto Gaiden came and for some reason... it got scary.

I loved each chapter of Gaiden because of the whole context that may have pushed Kishimoto to write it the way he did. I loved Sarada, I loved SasuSaku moments and I returned to see what SasuSaku shippers were saying, what I found was my third bump.

Whining. Cursing. Dissapointed fans. Negativism. People hating on Gaiden. Unnecesary drama, some fans pointed out.  And I thought “Wait a minute, every single story is unnecesary drama. WTH are they talking about?” “Sarada is an ungreateful child. Unlikable” they chimed. And still I was thinking: “Team 7 was not likable at the beggining either”. “Sasuke was not there? Inconceivable! I hate Kishimoto because it’s impossible for Sasuke to never have seen Sarada.”

They started to pick apart every single panel, every single interaction. The whole thing was an essay by the author of the precious couple to show the ridiculousness he had to endure for 6 months after he ended his manga. With the Thank you pages flooded with nasty messages from other antis. With the online comunity trying to boicott him, disrespecting him, harrassing him, harrassing his editors through twitter, his helpers and even some calls to Shounen Jump. Gaiden was meant to be read as a mocking piece. I saw through it and I was dissapointed that some fans were not able to see that.

At the end people tried to make peace with Gaiden and Boruto the movie came. And everyone was happy with the little interactions here and there. Just kidding. SasuSaku fans started to complain about how Sakura’s body was drawn. “Too skinny, too flat, face it’s too round. She looks like a little girl.” No, nevermind her badassery and cuteness, her body was her problem. “Kishimoto draws her like a woman. SP I hate you.”

Suddenly the problem became Studio Pierrot. Yes, I understood that they fucked up a lot of things but there was one problem the Naruto anime had as a whole especially in the transition to Naruto Shippuden and Shippuuden itself: Naruto became disjointed. The Anime of Naruto is no masterpiece and part of that was not the fillers by themselves, but the fillers in which the directors didn’t give a fuck about the story and fluidity. Little by little Naruto became less a cohesive story and more a gag anime. By the time Shippuuden had its turn to be animated, many of the boring and enraging tropes they commited in part 1 filler hell, was transitioned to Shippuuden.

If comunication is key, in Naruto anime’s case, that key was lost somewhere in the parking lot. Red herrings were glorified, Sakura’s awful personality was enhanced even though we know that in the manga, Sakura had become very fond of Naruto as a friend and was acting like a real friend to him. Sakura anime was a completely different person from Sakura in the manga.

Either way, SP tried to mend something that was completely broken by that point: Sakura’s sweet girl act did not work anymore and it made her look bad and not sincere. But it’s fine, I know directors were just following orders and animators as well. I got mad but tha’s fine, at least they didn’t change anything crucial. Yes, animation was always shitty when it came to animate SasuSaku scenes, but hey, I already knew their bias. But the fandom did not let it be.

Now, with the whole Boruto generations I have found a fourth bump. Until now, Gaiden has been well animated, things that were critized in the manga are being spelled out letter by letter. We are having more explanation, more exposition, better animation, better character designs and more personality from Sakura, and still SasuSaku shippers are negative and point their finger at SP critizing every single error it has. There are a lot of moments in general in the anime that were not shown properly or at all, but in general, the fandom seemed to accept that fact because... well, it’s SP, it’s an adaptation of a manga and has always been a bad one at that. Why is the SasuSaku fandom still negative and pessimistic? I get that we have to be critical of what we consume but.. why are they so defensive all the freaking time.

Sasuke and Sakura are canon and there is no thing an anti can say or do to change that fact. Insulting Sakura’s character or whatever it’s laughable, because despite what people might say, the manga proves them wrong. Kishimoto proves them wrong. We know that. What's the point?

To me, everytime I see a complaint without a strong case like: "this panel was cut, this scene was changed, this was not in that room. Sakura is not flat.", it shows to me what a big inferiority complex the SasuSaku shippers have. Like what the hell? I get that making fun of SP is fun, but there are shippers who are actually mad at it... like, have you not seen what a mess the Naruto anime is and you are complaining about size of Sakura’s boobs or the make up she wears or lack there of? LOL.

I finally understand: The SasuSaku fans are never going to be pleased.

NaruHina shippers: I love you guys but sometimes... ugh.

Sorry for this massive ranting. If you read it all, congratulations. You win cookies.

Have a great day everybody. I was hoping mom and dad would forgive each other already... Not happening any day soon, it seems.

PS. I still love you too SasuSaku shippers but I think you need a reality check.

[shslshortie]

Okay I'm going to make a post because I can't deal with everything that got asked/shat out my way

I am sorry for this rant, but I am legit ready to leave tumblr again. Like I forgot why I hated it so much, but lord is this an unhealthy environment for so many reasons. Mainly, because of discourse/call out culture. And I'm obviously not talking about being "PC" or anything, but just being an all around mean spirited person if anyone says anything that either 1) doesn't agree with you/your views/your fandom, 2) if anything is even slightly false or not entirely fact-checked, or 3) goes against most popular opinions without writing an entire graduate-level thesis about why you believe your opinion/view/observation is valid. Like if you want to complain or voice an opinion about anything, or even joke about something that you think is funny, you could very likely almost immediately be called out or even be sent WAVES of hate that usually is completely undeserved. Especially since people are hiding behind a screen of anonymity or at least behind an online persona, they don't think about the person on the receiving end of it. They don't think how their mean spirited comments or backlash could effect them mentally, and they don't even stop to think what else could be going on in their lives. Yesterday, (was it yesterday? I think it was yesterday, but GOD was it a long fucking day if it was) I made some posts after recapping through the Rost. Cup after I watched each medalist's short and long, as well as all the US skaters, big names, and for the men and ladies, almost all 11 skaters honestly. I love figure skating, and NO, unlike a lot of people wrongfully assumed, am not a part of the "fandom" and did not get into it because of YOI. Was a passion reignited from like a barbeque level flame to a bonfire with YOI's help? Yes. But would it probably have gone to a similar level with the Olympic season going into full swing? Highly likely. But anyways, I made some posts because I wanted to voice some observations, complaints, and things I thought were funny because tumblr is the only place I ever really rant/voice theories/talk about a lot of my interests, since I don't have any irl friends who are interested in almost half of the things I am. So, tumblr is usually the place that I dump these feelings/thoughts. Sure, one of them was a little off-color, and posted without thinking, but after about an hour (and like 3-4 replies I think), I looked back on it, and realized it didn't need to be posted out there, even if I didn't mean it to be mean. Does this mean I owed every single person who "called me out" for being uninformed, or for being mean, or for being whatever the hell I am a reply? No. Did I know that some things were answered over Twitter, or weibo (sp?) or Reddit, or whatever other gd social media that I don't use? No. Does that man I am uniformed and spreading lies or whatever? I don't think so, and that doesn't make me a fucking villain. I also deleted it, because I realized I was wrong. End of story, part 1. But then, the figure skating fandom found some of my posts/commentary/rants. (god forbid they somehow find this and attack me ALL OVER AGAIN, except for y'all that were part of this whole issue. I hope y'all see this, because it's not like I blocked you. Except for one tumblr user who blocked me because of my post? Like you do you, except don't reblog my post and block me so I can't see what you said, presumably about how I am a terrible person). And apparently 1) if you insult/don't like/say Y***** H**** didn't do his best/were disappointed in him, or if you like the person who won over him more... Then you deserve to die. And 2) if you even make a post about YOI or other anime, you are a fake fan who knows nothing. And 3) even mirroring almost the exact words of sports (specifically figure skating) commentators in your posts means nothing? Like it OBVIOUSLY means that you are making up bullshit to hate on skaters that are popular and are misinformed, right??? Or if you say one thing that was similar to an APPARENTLY problematic broadcast group, that nothing (including any commentary from official other broadcasts, because GUESS WHAT: it's hard to find recordings of all of the programs and exhibitions with English commentary, and there are usually 3-4 networks that have it, and SO MANY people upload different ones to YouTube) else you say matters or has any merit. I haven't even read all of the hate mail and submissions I received from this debacle. My mental health can't take it. I literally woke up for school the next morning, saw my notifications and couldn't get myself to stop crying from the anger/upsetness/trauma/depressed thoughts that bubbled up with all of it, and I couldn't even get myself to go to class because I was so shaken. Like visibly, physically shaken, to the point where I couldn't think straight and I literally had tremors from how upset and unstable it made me feel. Tumblr should be a place where I can voice my opinion on something I am passionate about without all this hate. I literally have no other place. Right now, irl, I got dragged into drama (not mine, I swear, I was just a witness and got pulled into the mess) with my honor society, and the girl who started it all is trying to pit the entire organization against me. I can't post anything on my finsta, and God forbid I even tried to post anything in Facebook. (Not like I would). I am already in a very dark place mentally and emotionally because of the trauma this is putting me through, and how unwanted, useless and disgusting everybody is making me feel. I shouldn't be getting that from strangers who just decided to make my life even more miserable on top of it. Legitimately, out of the 30-40 comments/asks/replies/submissions I recieved, only one person even tried to realize where I was coming from or to educate me on what I had done wrong or missed in my analysis. But some of their wording just mirrored all the hate l had recieved, or even other things I had been told in real life that just made me cry even harder and I still can't bring myself to reply to even the person who was civil. My one big point to anyone who sees this is (besides don't be a dick/cyber bully/create and stir up unnecessary discourse) is don't assume that people don't know what they're talking about? Or don't assume that they are fake fans? And don't make people spell every letter of their opinion out for you in a 12 page thesis if it doesn't comply with the tumblr norm. Cuz here are some fun facts about me that I don't normally publicize / post about on tumblr: Yes, I am an anime fan, but Jesus Christ I love/am a huge fan of WAY more than I am in the fandom for. I am honestly only in like 4-5 anime fandoms. Same thing goes for other things I like, such as Harry Potter or marvel. I can like things, A LOT, and be passionate about them without being in the fandom. That doesn't mean I don't like it or I'm not knowledgable on the subject. That doesn't mean that I am an idiot for not knowing a fact/opinion/theory that has made its way around the fandom, that I'm not a part of. YES, I am a HUGE SPORTS FAN. It was legitimately also my fucking career (as a sports reporter/journalist/broadcaster). Do I post on tumblr about Baseball or Football or Hockey? Almost never. Does that make me any less of a fan, or does that make me any less knowledgeable about teams and rules? No. Does that mean that I didn't play/participate in almost every sport growing up? (baseball for 6 years, I still play Intermural football, tennis for 3 years, volleyball for 4, soccer for 1, swimming for like 5 years, I tried track, even karate and some other random stuff.) YES, I AM FUCKING KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT PERFORMANCE SPORTS. I have participated/competed/trained/still watch almost every kind of performance sport. Of course color guard and marching band has been the longest, and the thing I was best at (7 years), but I grew up doing all kinds of dance and I still do lots of dance, as well as TONS of my own choreography. I've done baton and cheer for about 1-2 years each too. I did gymnastics for 4 years — was I very good? hell no. But do I know about it and appreciate it? Yes. SAME THING GOES FOR FIGURE SKATING. I only had like half a years worth of lessons, and like 3 routines that I ever finished and performed with figure skating, but that is because it is an expensive af sport, and I had way more activities and sports that I was better at, more passionate about learning, and were more accessible. BUT did I grow up going to figure skating shows like Disney on Ice or Stars on ice? Did that stop me from waiting in line for hours to get Michelle Kwan and other famous figure skaters autographs? No. Did that stop me from watching almost every single minute of the 2014 and 2010 Olympics? No. Do I still remember watching parts of the 2006 Olympics with my parents and absolutely being ENTHRALLED and wanting to do that too? YES. I still remember watching the 2014 Olympics from my aunt's house when I was staying on a cot in her living room because my mother was in the hospital and CRYING when I saw Y* H* perform, break world records, and win the gold. It was a sense of normalcy and awe because everything else going wrong in my life didn't matter while I was watching these amazing athletes perform. And GUESS WHAT, since I'm not really a part of the Figure Skating fandom (just like I'm not in the musical theatre fandom, or in anything regards to hair or makeup) I don't post about my own hype or plans regarding how excited I am for things to come out. So nobody here on tumblr, or almost ANYONE knew how excited I was for this upcoming Grand Prix season for the first actual competition of the Olympic season. I watched almost every challenger series video, as well as the autumn winter classic and competitions of the like. Even the JGPF events in anticipation. But guess what: I literally have a note on my phone that has all of Team USA's competition schedules, and their scores that they have gotten so far (like at the COR), along with a list of my favorite international skaters, and other new skaters to watch. I was so hype, so excited, and I thought that maybe, since figure skating had boomed in popularity, thanks in part to YOI (but also, helped people be more vocal and open about how much they love the sport even if ex already did) I would be able to discuss the excitement with other people. But no. Instead of being able to say "omg I'm so excited for blah blah blah, I hope they make the Olympic team. But I also love this show concept and this other persons costume, and you also can't count out blah blah blah" and being civil with conversation among other fans... They instead will say " wow you like blah blah blah? But you said this about them, and that offends me so you're wrong, and you forgot this tiny detail from 3 years ago, and you like anime so you OBVIOUSLY only care about figure skating because of YOI. Take your bandwagon fan bullshit away from me and go kill yourself". So now, I am staying the fuck away from the figure skating fandom, I've literally left half of my choreography untouched for almost 2-3 months, don't want to read/finish any of my YOI fanfics, and will probably even have a hard time watching Skate Can this weekend (even though like 6 of my favorite skaters are competing, and I was so excited before). Guess I'll just have to annoy my snapchat friends with videos of skating and me screaming because of skating. Fuck you tumblr, and I doubt I'll make any more original posts outside of APO planning and reblogs in the foreseeable future,

[chattegeorgiana]

I disagree with anon. There's hating a ship, then there's hating the character itself. Even without SS, Sakura was still largely hated across the fanbase for the most shallow of reasons. Some still blame her for Neji's death. I really doubt SS expected Sakura to get shafted to this point; from what I've seen, they are just as angry and sadden by this. At the same time, I'm aware that NH (not all shipper, if they are reading!) really only "supported" SS just to get Sakura out of the way. (1)

Honestly, I never meet Sakura hate so strong from that fandom. I remembered how the majority started acting all haughty with SS after The Last, then outright dropped SS when Gaiden came out. Some were even disappointed that Karin wasn’t outright confirmed the mother and called the manga a waste. For those NH who used to “support” SS, you would think they’ll have some sympathy for their “sister” shippers? (2)

The legit hate for Sakura is honestly so incredulous to me. The only fandom I’ve been in with character hate half as strong was Kingdom Hearts with Kairi. And even then the hate was half as strong, and only within fandom. The hate died down over the years. But Sakura? The fandom, SP, SJ, assistants, editors, hate her to this point? They are absolutely okay with erasing her importance within the manga? Okay with giving Hinata everything they hated in Sakura? The interview with Kishi (3)

comparing Sakura to a secondary character, overall downgrading her importance in the manga made me sad. But the reaction from NH succeed my disappointment in Kishi, and I only felt even more bitterness towards NH and Hinata. (4)

It’s why I can never like Hinata or NH, no matter how much they try and convince me. To be happy that they aren’t force to acknowledge Sakura as a heroine? Was NS that intimidating? Was Sakura that bad? I’m sorry that this small thing turned to a rant, but I felt if Sakura (and Team 7) was in a different fandom than this one. To have hate so strong that even her own creator hates her along with the franchise? To STILL blame her for Neji? I’m just so sad that this is what she is reduced to. (5)

I only wanted better for her, but with this fandom it’s like you have to go above and beyond for her just to get that fandom to like her even a little. On top of that, deal with a franchise that wants nothing to do with her either. Yet they will put Hinata on a pedestal and call her the heroine? The franchise legitimately putting her as a main cast, when she was barely a secondary in Part 2? How did she became relevant and shoved into our face as being better than Sakura? (End)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Granted, that was/is also a factor but it’s the SS that was the fuel to NH by some sort of sick alliance, and then trying to bury every shit Kishi threw at Sakura via Sasuke because of her proximity to Naruto and the possibility of her being with Naruto in the end. But these are old shannenigans.

Granted, Sakura was hated in the fandom because of the most stupid reasons, however when it came down to comparing her with Hinata, if it weren’t for a let’s say very ardent fan of Hinata’s everyone knew and acknowledged the fact that Sakura tops Hinata no matter what. It was basic knowledge 101.

But then Studio Pierrot came and started the stealing. Sakura is a medical ninja? Everyone is a medical ninja.

Sakura has a superior chakra control, even moreso than her powerhouses of teammates? Everyone gets it.

Sakura can tell via her medical ninjutsu where it hurts in the body or it’s a certain problem? Throw that away, make Hinata tell her via her Byakugan because lol Sakura surely must’ve forgotten to do that with only medical ninjutsu via water detection, in order to force down our throats a friendship that never really was there - at most, some respect showed by Sakura to Hinata, never the viceversa. 

Some still blame her for Neji’s death because things were written as such. That was the effect they wanted. While Sakura the medical ninja couldn’t be there when Naruto called for a medic-nin, have Hinata-hime-sama be there and offer him the emotional support he needed (although via Sakura was shown to us what he really needed, but anyway). Sakura was written off at that point to make place for Hinata, all while in the meantime Studio Pierrot via their shitty interventions was already stealing everything from Sakura and giving it to Hinata. SS-ers saw that, they were here with us as well. We were already screaming about the damage control Sakura was taking because of Hinata but most of them didn’t care, as long as it took NaruSaku out of the way…

And dear boy I know I screamed right and left about this because I saw the bullshit they’re trying to pull. I don’t know exactly for how long you’re around the fandom anon, but as I said before, I came from a NH and SS background that went along with NS given the development. And also besides that, what made me distance from NH mostly was their hate for Sakura. I was a NH shipper that happened to like Sakura very much. And so, being accustomed to how these pairings function, I saw the impending shit that was about to come, and screamed about it, but who was going to listen? I was a NaruSaku, to hell with me, despite me saying multiple times that before being a NaruSaku or any other type of shipper, I am a Sakura fan. 

So you see, here it’s a mix of many elements at the middle, and sadly they did have a major contribution to this, sorry to say it. Not all of them, ofc, but…

And it was never a sister ship with them… It was an alliance against NaruSaku. That was the immediate threat to them. Everyone knew that Kishi wouldn’t have the balls to end it with NaruSasu because of the controversy (despite drawing them in also), so the next best thing was NaruSaku - especially given the story’s construction mechanisms - everything was pointing at NaruSaku, no matter how much some still want to deny it. It’s basic storytelling 101 in a piece of literature (more or less).

Hell, they even changed the story triangle. There was one always inside team 7, and now in his newest interview Kishi mentions one that was nonexistent between Naruto, Sakura and Hinata. He literally took all the things that NH were fantasizing about and used them as “logical explanation” when his own story was contradicting him.

And yes, for some stupid reason people hated Sakura because Kishimoto pulled at the heart strings of people with poor orphan Naruto, but God forbid someone points Naruto’s horrible behavior, they must be linched - which Sakura does at the beginning of the story. Naruto was after all a pretty stupid kid that did stupid things. Yes, he had ulterior motives, but does that excuse his behavior? If we cannot excuse the behavior of one, why excuse his, know what I mean? 

And also people aren’t used to look at the broader picture because somehow … reasons. Yes, Sakura told him all those things, but at the same time supported him and his stupid dream with her love for Sasuke and her “horrible” behavior still did much more than Hinata with her love for Naruto.  But then people come with the excuse that she was shy. So we can excuse Hinata of her shyness for NOT helping Naruto when he most needed it, but we cannot excuse Sakura for expressing her pissed self at Naruto whenever he did something stupid DESPITE ACTIVELY doing stuff for him? Hmm, I smell double standards.

And yes, it’s funny how when they take stuff from Sakura and add them to Hinata everyone is okay, because it’s Hinata. This only once more shows the double standards and hipocrisy that lies deep within the collective counsciousness of this very fandom.

And, after all, it’s not the fandom’s fault as much as it is Kishi’s and how he never put his finger on something for certain, out of God knows what reasons… I can only speculate, but some are for certain - he doesn’t have a backbone.

From defending fiercely your heroine to actively replacing her… pfft. Laughable.

If he would’ve had a backbone he would’ve finished the story properly. You know how they say “Stand for what you believe in, even if you stand alone”.

Something he tried pushing with Naruto, too bad he failed miserably.

I wanted better for her too, and actually trusted Kishi he will do better. I created theories about where he’d be going with her, things that eventually come to fruition (her seal, chakra nature and some others), but the thing that disgusted me the most about this was seeing some things that were clearly going to go to Sakura, being used for Hinata, dare I say some ideas I layed down in my theories, being used now, via other means.

At first I thought it’s me being crazy, they couldn’t possibly use that… and then the latest chapter of Boruto comes and they use for him what the NS fandom creates for Shinachiku. 

To answer your question - yes, NaruSaku was that intimidating. That intimidating that they cannot erase 15 years of development, that they now try to steal ideas from the NS fans to burrow us as deep as possible because otherwise we won’t shut up, that bad of an intimidation, that they make it so defiant to NaruSaku fans, so that we’ll eventually shut up and stop being the thorns in their back.

Well, too bad. We’re here and we’re staying. They can steal how much they want. The records showing that we were there with ideas and whatnot long before them it’s here.

For someone who writes about Gods and whatnot, Kishi and his editors should know about the Akashic records. They’re imprinted in the human collective counsciousness, and no matter how much they want to silence and erase Sakura and NaruSaku, they can’t.

And this only pushed me to continue my initial analysis on Sakura’s character. Ohoo, it’s going to be so much fun to demask all the bullshit mechanism behind their actions. SO MUCH FUN!

Anyway, I turned this into a rant and went into deeper stuff myself, I should probably end it here. But yeah, this thing is a mess. A salad, to be more exact. ;)

[schaynotchan]

I've been through all of the anti-SS moments our fandom would poke fun of (and at times when I was a bit "meh", made fun of myself) to cheer ourselves up from our sadness. I've read respectful anti-SS rants. I don't know what happen since the Boruto movie came about (that's when I started notice and distance myself from fandom), but the Naruto fandom in general started to become very spiteful. I remember when some SS shippers drove one of their own out of the fandom because she wanted more [2/3]

SSmoments because of the lack of attention. And I also remember SNS getting intoa meaningless argument over who tops (one I didn't participate, luckily). Andsome NS shippers getting into a debate over RtN and whether it was anti-Sakuraor not. Short: I've seen people arguing and insulting their own shippers overmeaning crap that have never existed before the ending. It became that bad. Istarted distancing myself from SNS during the whole "who tops?"debate, but when 685 came out [3/4]

animated,I couldn't stay. The insults some SNS shippers had towards the SS shipperslegitimately triggered me. My personal story: I have a brother who has autism.My father, when he angry, would always talk down to my brother when he had donesomething very wrong. He would say how much he wish he could send him to amental hospital, "why is so r-slur", "look how dumb he'sbeing"...I know my dad doesn't truly mean it, sometimes life isn't great100% of the time. But man, it hurts, it [4/5]

reallyhurts to hear the names brother has been called, and my brother can't do shitbecause he doesn't understand the insults. It would cause a tear in my housewith my dad, mom and sis; my dad wants to send him away because he can't takeof him. I pray everyday that my brother would talk, and that my dad wouldn'tharbor such bad feelings. So I was WTF! when I see anti-SS, some in my own OTPfandom, call out SS shippers as "needing to go to some mentalhospital" or "how they need [5/6]

therapy",and how "they are so sick in the head". "What's in yourhead", "I only wish the worst for them, tbh". Like shit, thislow class insults over a fiction couple? It triggered me to where I couldn'tship SNS anymore (my bro is always first over fiction) becuase, like this NEVERhappened before (at least I've never seen this throughout my time in SNS,before the ending, and even a bit after the ending). Like I've seen shit withSS, NH, and NS, but it just hurts a lot more when it's [6/7]

comingfrom your own OTP's fandom. I just couldn't keep shipping, and I had to drop.Luckily, Yuri on Ice came out weeks later to cheer me up from the toxic fandom.I mean I still ship SNS (I lurk around to view art then leave), but's its myex-OTP. More so, I'm trying to move on, because the Naruto fandom has turn intoa pile of (tasteless insults, personal stalking and bashing, and at timedoxxing) shit. And to be more honest, I became more open minded to SS because Idid meet cool [7/8]

people.It's one thing I wish from the Naruto fandom; what need do have to resort topersonal bashing just to get a point across? We know how significant SNS wasfor Naruto in general. Since when do we wish for the worst for others who havea different opinion over a work of FICTION that makes them happy as well? It'snot like I've never seen the insults from the pro-enders, but that's why Istayed within SNS. So it hurts when even the place you seek for comfort is nolonger comfortable. [8/9]

I'msorry for the long winded rant. Tbh, you aren't the first shipper I told thisabout in anon, but when I saw your response, I was like "Okay! Anothershipper that isn't blinded to how bad the fandom became!" I mean, I'm herefor SNS Week because it's one of the rare times the fandom is enjoyable; beforethe ending. I wish people would have an engaging debate without the need toinsult; it's one of the major reasons why the Naruto fandom is so close mindedin opinions. If people just [9/10]

respected each other in fandom, had chapter 700 came out, we might havehad pro-enders more understanding on why the ending was flawed or why we seeSNS; we probably would have been more sympathetic towards SS's treatment withSP. But you have pro-enders simply staying so more out of spite against us, andI definitely don't feel that much sympathy for SS for the shit I've been withthem. I hope I didn't give you the idea that SNS is bad; I'm saying that thewhole Naruto fandom is bad. [End]

So I didn’t got the first ask because tumblr ate it. But because I think you send me each part right after writing it, and probably don’t have a copy of the first part I’ll try to answer all that without it!

Oh god, I actually don't really know what to answer. Idon't have any experience with answering such kind of asks. I hope that I canstill give you a more or less good answer. I knew that we and other Naruto fandoms where through a lot of toxic times. I personally didn't experience any of those (where I'm grateful for tbh) because I only joined the SNS Tumblr fandom about a Year ago.  So I can't really talk out of my own point of view, but I knew it was really bad. I know a lot of people left or distanced themselves like you back then. Although I must say... reading all this, with the examples you gave me... sounds a lot worse than I imagined... I'm always shocked when I read about these times.

I understand why you left the SNS fandom and tried to move on, especially with your personal story behind it. You know, I have always support happiness and mental health about everything else, so moving on was a good decision in your case. When I would've been in the fandom back then I probably would've also left.

I think nowadays the SNS fandom is acceptable and non toxic (although it could be better) but I also know that this is only MY experience and that some of my mutuals disagree. As I said in my game reply before, we often only see a small part of the actual fandoms content depending on what blogs we follow. I strictly unfollow people who insult too much or make fun of any kind of deeper topics like mental health, sexuality, ethnic etc. You couldsay that I somewhat turn a blind eye to the unhealthy part of the fandom. Soit's still a safe place for me. But regardingless of what I just said, I agreewith you anon. Especially with this part:

It'sone thing I wish from the Naruto fandom; what need do have to resort topersonal bashing just to get a pointacross? We know how significant SNS was for Naruto in general. Since when do we wish for the worst forothers who have a different opinion over a work of FICTION that makes them happy as well?

I wish the Naruto fandom could prove their pointswithout bashing, insulting and looking down on others. I also wish thatwe could discuss about the positive and negative things about a fictional workwithout dictating other peoples views and what they should enjoy and what not.

As you probably know, I personally am anti ending/anti SS/anti NH, but I respect other peoples opinion. As long as they are happy with their ship and their ending and respect me, they shall have it! I know that some pro Enders actually follow me so I know it is possible to get along with each other even when our opinions don't match. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult for others.  

And no, you didn’t give me the idea that SNS is bad, I was mostly already aware of all that. Even that “The whole Naruto fandom is bad”. I know that the Naruto fandom is one of the most toxic anime fandoms out there.

The thing is, Naruto was a fictional work that did go on forever. A lot of people grew up with it and it became a big part of them. Myself included. If you hold something - fictional or not - so dear to you, for so many years, you want to defend it, you are angry about some parts and you try to push everyone who tries to crush your view about the show away. Because at some point, it starts to get REALLY personal. Your feelings for the stories are real and valid. I believe that that’s one of the reasons why the Naruto fandom is like this. A lot of us take things that are about Naruto really personal and get biased about it.

I still hope that we could get along better with each other. We are all one fandom. And if we can’t get along side by side, we at least could try our best to talk with each other politely. Without insulting one another.

Thank you so much for taking your time to share your story with me!