#Ruan Mei character analysis when???

[crystal-cliffs]

Sometimes when I read about how people feel about Ruan Mei it just feels like people going

Low empathy=evil

Which is all sorts of fucked up but whatever floats your boat I guess

(I say feels like, no I literally saw someone say she’s evil because she has low empathy… people who have low empathy aren’t evil.)

[rationaliity]

dr ratio vs. the genius society | an analysis

this'll also be a comparison between ruan mei and dr. ratio so warning for that one too, just in case.

i saw this post by @chronical-lover

and firstly, i just want to say thank you, especially about mentioning how aeons don't care about humans because youre so right. i wanna expand a little bit on the comparison between his character and the genius' that we've met this far.

ratio ultimately failed to be recognized not because he wasn't smart enough, but because he was too human. he's human first, scientist second. he'll always be human first, he doesn't have it in him to act without emotions no matter how much he wants logic to dictate his every move. his entire character is that he believes every one has a human right to be alive, to learn and to grow. he's there to guide them, not necessarily in the nicest way, but still.

i think contrasting him with ruan mei in the story quest was a perfect idea. when you meet ruan mei, she's kind. she makes the trailblazer feel comfortable, even for just a little bit. she offers companionship, tea, and a conversation. but she does not care about the trailblazer or her creations, something painfully obvious in her actions. when the trailblazer was facing up against ruan mei's failed attempt to make a replica of the emanator of propagation, ruan mei was no where to be found. but you know who was, just in case he had to step in ? veritas ratio. even though both knew that the replica wasn't likely to hurt the trailblazer, ratio was there.

" since you're here, i won't intercede. but should you fail, i will be forced to prevent some avoidable misfortunes "

( i hate this man so much )

but he was there. he witnessed the fight, and once the threat was over, it was time to get going ( his words, not mine ). he was there to witness you fight, and should he had needed to, he would've stepped in to prevent us from any actual danger. however, when we approach ruan mei after the fight, and we look reasonably upset from her, we don't get an actual apology. she says she regrets her actions, but her words aren't actually about putting us in danger. she was upset that her experiment fell short, that she had made another predictable outcome.

" you look.. upset, correct ? i regret my actions. there's no defending what i've done. time and again, my experiments have fallen short, and they've always yielded predictable results. i made a clone but it.. doesn't hold a candle to the emanator. "

she did say that she would be there if the danger proved to be too great, but she was not. veritas, however, was. both of them said that they would step in if needed, but only one of them was actually in a position to do so. only one of them took preventative measures to make sure that you were safe from harm. and that is not the genius ruan mei, no matter what her words say.

ruan mei has a flowery way of speaking. not to say that she necessarily minces her words, she's upfront about a lot of things. but she lures the trailblazer into a false sense of security. she's introspective, and questions her own actions a lot. but she's never apologetic about the way that her actions put other people in danger, just that they don't yield the results she wants.

ratio, however, is curt. we meet him originally as a brooding, mysterious figure. he's mean, he doesn't use a lot of words to get his point across. he says what he means, and he's a fan of effective communication. he doesn't have to worry about himself, he knows who he is and how is actions affect himself and the people around him, and that leads to people assuming that he's egotistical ( which he might be , a little bit. as a treat ) but the reality is that ratio cares more about the people around him that he'll ever let on.

and that's where he fails. that's the fundamental difference between him and those within the genius society. ruan mei, herta, screwllum, and the other geniuses do not care about anything other than results. and yet ratio is kind. he's inherently kind, his actions are all for other people. he's saved a dozen worlds with his inventions. he's a scholar within the intelligentsia guild, and a doctor saving his patient's lives every single day. he wants to guide people from the shadows towards the right answer, he wants to make them use their brains and think.

he does not act without considering other people. he can't be a genius first, and a human second. and that's where he fails to gain nous' recognition. it's not that he's not not intelligent enough to be a genius, it's that even in his pursuit of knowledge, he has not forgone his humanity.

and perhaps, in nous' eyes, that's the difference between the mediocre and the genius. to erase every part of you, your emotions, your empathy, your humanity, in the pursuit of knowledge is what separates a genius from the masses. not having those barriers allows you to really dig deep into subjects that would otherwise be considered taboo or dangerous, because you don't care about how the outcome affects people as long as you can study it. as long as you can get answers out of what you're studying, it doesn't really matter what the test subjects are feeling.

ratio is too human, too caring, to ever be considered a genius in nous' eyes.

[s-b-party]

Nous & Mythus: A Cycle of the Known & Unknown

****Honkai star rail version 1.6/crown of mundane and divine spoilers ahead****

After getting another update to the Simulated Universe & w/ Dr. Ratio coming soon, it’s a good time for me to discuss about these 2 Aeons & give my thoughts/analysis on them!

So who are these two?

They are Nous the Erudition & Mythus the Enigmata

We’ll start off w/ Nous so what does erudition mean? A synonym we can use is knowledge although that might be a bit oversimplified

Erudition often has the meaning of extensive learning whether it’s from books, practice, lectures, etc. The implication is that an erudite person or thing has a LOT of knowledge; think of a person who’s well-rounded but also has extensive knowledge in the many fields/subjects they have learned about, they can be considered erudite (this is reflected in how Erudition Pathstriders function in terms of gameplay, normally their specialty is dealing AoE dmg to multiple enemies at once as opposed to just a singular target)

Nous takes the form of an astral computer, they are a machine w/ many dangling wires visible & a red “eye” in the center, very much mechanic all around; as for their symbol it seems to speak to their concept quite well

If we look at the background, the cylindrical shapes can be interpreted as scrolls which are often associated w/ learning & knowledge; in the center, the abstract shapes seem to make an eye (their gaze perhaps) but I think it could also be taken as a flash of light which could represent “enlightenment” which we often think of as a sort of critical point in one’s journey in obtaining knowledge

Is it possible that the center is meant to symbolize the moment when Nous reaches their own enlightenment?

To name a few of their more well-known factions, we have the Genius Society & Intelligentsia Guild, both of which have members whom we’ve already officially met in the game: Herta, Screwllum, Ruan Mei from Genius Society and Dr. Ratio from Intelligentsia Guild

Seeing as they’re 2 different factions following the same Aeon, that means there’s something differentiating them, presumably their approach to knowledge

You can tell based on the name of the Genius Society what exactly they focus on (geniuses) which is a bit of a contrast to what the Intelligentsia Guild focuses on which is the dissemination of knowledge meaning that they believe everybody should have access to knowledge

The Genius Society doesn’t seem to share their knowledge that easily which we can see based on how some of the members tend to work alone, one even became known for killing some of the other members despite being in the same organization (#4 Polka Kakamond), Ruan Mei often sticks to herself when it comes to her research, etc; as a result it’s a contrast to how easily knowledge flows within the Intelligentsia Guild which even goes as far as to view it as currency in their motto

Although we’ve pretty much met only one character associated w/ the Intelligentsia Guild officially & despite how much of an asshole he may be, there are aspects related to Dr. Ratio that are in agreement w/ the belief of the Intelligentsia Guild

The name of his banner is Panta Rhei/Panta Rei which is usually associated w/ Heraclitus & it often translated to “Everything Flows”; Heraclitus was a philosopher whose focus was on the movement & changes that the universe goes through which sounds similar to how the faction wants to make knowledge easily accessible (therefore making knowledge flow through the universe)

Ngl the convo between him & Screwllum at the end of the continuance quest had me lost for a bit but I got the gist of it; to sum it up Ratio ended up rescuing the researchers who got teleported by Duke Inferno, Screwllum was wondering why Ratio would just stand back & observe when he could have prevented the situation from being dragged out any further since Ratio had the Phase Flame; Ratio explains that the best thing when dealing w/ ignorant people (in this case, the researchers in the space station including the people in the chat who were gossiping about the situation) is to stand aside & observe bc according to him foolishness is the most difficult thing to cure; Screwllum deduces that Ratio was attempting to make the employees realize that they shouldn’t be idolizing geniuses so much; Dr. Ratio is in a way similar to Alhaitham; they both think that geniuses shouldn’t be made into such a big deal or overly revered; in both cases the reverence of geniuses creates a gap between people based on intelligence

Another aspect which I find both funny and fitting is that Dr. Ratio as a 5 star will be available to EVERY player; as it is implied in the livestream, it’s his way of spreading knowledge to the mediocre; as much as he can be very arrogant & rude, it’s interesting to see that he still upholds the belief that knowledge should be available to everybody, not just to geniuses, in his own unique way

4. The last aspect of Dr. Ratio that I want to touch upon is the combination of his title & name: his full name is Veritas Ratio, veritas meaning “truth/truthfulness” & ratio meaning “reason” in Latin; the title doctor comes from the Latin verb docere which means “to teach/instruct”

This may be a stretch but hear me out: when put together, the name (not necessarily the person) Dr. Veritas Ratio gives off an impression of someone who is either qualified to teach others about “truthful reasoning” or a teacher who is truthful & rational (it might not sound like it but this kinda falls in line w/ Screwllum describing him as candid). Something I noticed is that based on what we’ve seen, not many people in the Genius Society go by the title of Doctor; what I’m trying to get at is that there is something to be said about Ratio having the title of someone who is qualified to teach while members of the Genius Society usually do not really seem that interested in spreading knowledge to the masses or teaching them

This isn’t to say that the Genius Society is entirely incapable of teaching, they probably could if they wanted to (keyword: wanted), it’s more so their motivations & values that differentiate them from the Intelligentsia Guild

Getting back to Nous, both factions do reflect specific sides of the Aeon: both are interested in expanding their knowledge but the Genius Society overall seems to be removed from civilization/society or at least a bit distant (matched by the quote describing the knowledge seeker as having a cold core) while the Intelligentsia Guild has a more cooperative aspect in terms of having a network of intelligence which can be seen in the meaning behind Nous’ signal which is explained in the entry of the Genius Society (although the signal is more so reserved for geniuses, it’s still an attempt at having a group of people work together to find the answers to the universe)

Now that we’ve looked a bit at Nous in detail, I’ll talk about Mythus; as the Aeon of Enigmata, they represent the concept of mysteries that can’t be easily perceived & their form is quite interesting to look at

Their name is related to the word “mythos” which usually refers to the stories & arts that help demonstrate values, beliefs, & attitudes of societies

*I found out recently that apparently the word myth is more of a pejorative term for mythos bc it’s more often than not used to describe stories as false or not true so there is controversy around that*

Overall they look like a jellyfish w/ the main body being faceless & legless while their tentacles/tendrils dangle out; some parts of their body have a unique effect on them that resembles oil spills or the surface of a bubble which is probably meant to be the fog that accompanies them; the staircases that come from their body seem to never end & even fade out into the darkness of space

Their symbol is very similar to their form; you can see the jellyfish w/ tentacles flowing down & in the background there is a ring of rectangles that overlap each other which may be referring to the stairs that appear in their art

The usage of the jellyfish is interesting; just like how the ocean can carry them along, the jellyfish can symbolize flow & movement, perhaps it’s to establish how mysteries simply exist in the universe without push or pull from outside forces

I can see them using the jellyfish due to its connection to one of the biggest mysteries of the world: the ocean (or at least the deeper parts of it); if we think about it, space is like an ocean of stars and unknown things so I think it’s kind of fitting using a jellyfish form to represent mysteries but it might be a stretch

Now a few known factions that follow Mythus are the Riddlers & History Fictionologists: both are pretty straightforward in terms of their agenda which is to enshroud the universe in mysteries

The Riddlers create mysteries by altering texts & words while the History Fictionologists create mysteries by eradicating evidence of past events aka history itself

It is interesting seeing how these factions actively create mysteries sometimes to the point of destruction (of texts, history, etc) even though the existence of Enigmata should be able to exist as long as Mythus exists bc Aeons themselves are manifestations of concepts; in some cases, Aeons can die while the concepts they identify as may still persist to the current time

So how do Nous & Mythus even relate to each other in the overall world building ? Their identifying concepts might appear as opposites of each other (known vs unknown) but I think there’s more to it than that

There is a readable item written by Fu Xuan called “Glimpses into the Beyond” where she explains that Nous doesn’t necessarily provide answers but they provide many questions & that “answers may only be found by oneself”

We also hear of Nous doing calculations & trying to solve the mysteries of the universe & since the Enigmata exists, Nous doesn’t have all of the answers due to the existence of mysteries

I think that while they do know a lot about the universe & can represent knowledge, they can also represent the learning process/the journey for knowledge

Something interesting is that Nous in Greek philosophy refers to the ability to process & perceive information so if Mythus is meant to be the representation of the things that can’t be easily perceived, does that still apply to Nous themself when they’re both Aeons?

Also where does that leave their dynamic? They’re enemies of sorts bc Mythus is trying to destroy certainty left by Nous but this is also a relationship where Nous is essentially searching for the answers to the universe’s mysteries aka what Mythus encapsulates, making Mythus their “goal” I guess you could say

Life will always have people who desire to gain knowledge & it will always have things that have not been discovered/figured out; there is one particular thing that I do wonder about amidst all of this: with Mythus wanting an uncertain future, I wonder how this will spell out for one of the most important concepts in many HYV games: fate

I guess we’ll have to wait & see if they’ll connect this to fate in the future 👀

*I hope you guys enjoy the first lore thread of the new year! :3

[overdressedcarp]

Aventurine, Dr. Ratio, and Ruan Mei for the character ask! (Love ur Aventio fic btw).

Thank you for the ask! I had fun doing these. (Also I'm glad you're enjoying the fic! I am sitting in my authorial hobbit hole with a big smile on my face.)

Aventurine

Clarifications (yellow boxes):

I don't see as many bad Aventurine takes as I do for Ratio, but I do think his rough edges often get watered down in a way that either justifies or ignores his canonical flaws. So "they got done dirty by fans" and "wow! they are a horrible person" both get soft nods because I think his character deserves to be both sympathetic and kind of an ass sometimes. (The other issue I see is people acting like he's vulnerable and helpless, which is just. fundamentally not true? He's not as secure in himself as he pretends to be, but he is a ruthlessly competent strategist, and he knows how to read people and give them what they want to see. He's a member of the Ten Stonehearts for a reason.)

"If they were real I would be afraid of them" alright let me explain. The 2.1 story did a masterful job of humanizing Aventurine, but his first impressions in 2.0 were fine-tuned to be unnerving, and it was really effective for me as a player. For a while I couldn't articulate why it made me uncomfortable, but @starcurtain did a great analysis on female influence in Aventurine's life, which touched on how his early interactions with the Trailblazer are designed to be intimidating and off-putting in a way that channels the sort of masculine dominance Aventurine has historically experienced at the hands of other men. Suffice to say: if it served his plans for me to be afraid of him, he knows how to do it, and it would work.

Also I forgot to mark "why do they look like that" on the bingo but I do think Hoyo should have given him more melanin considering how deeply Romani-coded his culture is. Everything else about his design slaps though.

Ratio

Clarifications:

"Wasted potential" is subjective because I've loved every moment we've gotten of Ratio onscreen, but damn do I want the game to delve deeper into his backstory and his dynamics with other characters (I'm still sad that so far Aventurine is the only character that has a voice line about him).

"Deeper than they seem" and "not as deep as they seem" exist in a paradoxical state for me because I do think some folks stop at the surface reading of "arrogant asshole" when he's got way more going on in his character stories and his actions in canon... but I also think some people err on the side of taking him too seriously, in a way that likewise takes something away from his character. Like, this is the guy who plays chess with himself and trash-talks from both sides of the table like a goddamn cartoon character. He owns at least one rubber duck and takes a bath with it every day. He likes all of Aventurine's social media posts and replies "Heh." to anything he finds vaguely amusing. This is not a serious man.

"Why do they look like that" okay I need to clarify that this is not a criticism. I love Ratio's design. The neoclassical vibes are impeccable. But it's also extra in a way that I feel morally obligated to call out, considering how much he rags on Aventurine for dressing like a peacock. Sir, you walk around in robes and sandals with an alabaster bust on your head; you have no room to talk about subtle fashion choices.

Ruan Mei

Clarifications:

Ruan Mei gets both "they are so cool looking" and "why do they look like that" because I love the theory behind her design (the DNA elements, the embroidery and floral imagery, the qipao paired with the pearl necklace) but she also has the unfortunate distinction of being a female character in a Hoyoverse game, so the more unique details fall prey to the homogenizing force of the male gaze.

Another case of "they got done dirty by fans" and "wow! they are a terrible person" existing in tandem, but in Ruan Mei's case I think some people reduce her down to her worst qualities without acknowledging the more complex aspects of her character. Her unchecked pursuit of knowledge leads to her doing Objectively Bad Things, but I don't think it's a fair (or particularly interesting) reading to portray her as heartless.

I thought about marking "wasted potential" because imo 1.6 wasn't nearly enough to delve into Everything Going on with This Woman, but it seems like they're setting up something for a future patch, so I'm content to wait and see what the writers have planned. I'm really excited to find out what she's doing with those leviathan fossils and Tingyun's wrecked ship.

Link to the character bingo template

[t4tstarrailing]

looking back, I think one of the most absolutely annoying things about penacony is how everyone in the fandom marveled at Dr Ratio discovering the truth about dormancy and just. not saying anything about robin or firefly doing the exact same thing.

like. firefly is one thing because she knew that she wouldn't die thanks to elio's script. but still, to sneak in illegally and take that chance when you're running away from your early death is fucking. holy shit! that's amazing! why is no one talking about it!

robin probably literally thought she would die going into it. she had no information about dormancy, no one to support her. she just saw it was a threat and said "I need to deal with this to keep everyone safe" and fucking went for it. bravest character in penacony imho, but no one talks about it or tries so damn hard to minimize her contributions to the plot or turns her contributions into something about her brother

Dr. ratio? no risks taken to answer a philosophical question.... which is like, his whole thing. being a doctor of philosophy. and answering philosophical questions. that's not really as impressive as firefly and robin, and yet people were making 10 pages analysis posts about him seemingly everyday, somehow making acheron's personal philosophy all about him while ignoring acheron's character entirely. he was also literally a side character and not even the main character, unlike firefly and robin.

like I knew the misogyny in this fandom existed with the hatred for ruan Mei and Herta. but holy shit, penacony really made some of y'all show your hatred and dismissal of fem characters, even when they're in the spotlight. y'all really out here showing your asses about fem characters and their contributions to the plot. it really kinda killed my desire to interact with the fandom at large tbh

[kasuna-kotonoha]

You know, one thing that grates on me sometimes is when people use terms like "psychopath" or "sociopath" when they clearly don't know the full scope of what those terms actually mean.

While not always wrong, both terms get slapped around as a catch all for "IMO this person is morally reprehensible" regardless of what a character's motivations really are or if it's simply a difference of opinions

(Did I delve into the comment sections on a few different Ruan Mei analysis vids before making this post? Yes. Can this apply to a lot of other characters? Also yes)

[t4tstarrailing]

Dr ratio character analysis thing

Putting this at the very top so no one can ignore/miss it.

No, this post is not about ships. Please do not use this analysis as a way to say “this makes my ship more canon”, because that’s never my purpose with character analysis for Hoyo games. Hoyo likes to make characters that parallel each other, but being parallels does not immediately make them “more canon” or anything like that.

Also, I’m gonna be blunt, and I can say this as a gay transmasc. Some of you are yaoi brained and it’s interfering with your character analysis and interpretation of canon content.

tldr: Dr ratio is just some guy with an ego that doesn't want to recognize that he is just some guy.

So, anyway. Let’s get started.

Penacony is not Dr. Ratio’s story, and I’m seeing a lot of analysis about Dr. Ratio and Penacony, but not actually about the quests where we’re first introduced to him. The first quest where we are introduced to him, who is involved with the quests, and where it’s located really set the stage for Ratio, more so than Penacony ever would to be quite honest. Hoyo loves their parallels after all, and they tend to be established fairly quickly upon a character’s introduction into the game.

Overall Ratio analysis: Academically speaking, Ratio is just some guy. Does he have an impressive academic track record? Yes, he does. But that’s fairly standard for die hard academics like him, even in real life. He even calls himself a Mundanite, after being denied to be gazed upon by Nous. His philosophy isn’t really anything noteworthy, as it’s fairly in line with famous Greek philosophers. And when you’re comparing him to members of the Genius Society, his track record is fairly lackluster (see: the founder of the Genius Society being theorized to have made the aeon Nous). So it’s not really a shock that he hasn’t received Nous’ gaze. Especially when his motivations don’t align with the established motivations of the Genius Society.

And ultimately, on an intergalactic level, Ratio is just some guy. And that’s the whole point of his character story. Some guy being slapped in the face with the reality that the Aeons are uncaring and unpredictable by mortal standards, even after busting his ass to try and earn their gaze.

The difference between the Genius Society and Ratio: Indifference versus ego. The Genius Society works to earn knowledge for the sake of earning knowledge, but Ratio arguably earns knowledge for the sake of recognition (seen where it’s confirmed that Ratio wanted to earn Nous’ gaze). None of the Genius Society members actively sought recognition from Nous, they just happened to earn their gaze. Ratio actively sought Nous’ gaze, and didn’t earn their gaze.

Not implying that he has a secret inferiority complex, just that he has an ego. And canonically speaking, it’s ridiculous to deny it. Ratio is very Greek philosopher-like in this regard, and Greek philosophers were notoriously arrogant with egos.

The Genius Society also breaks barriers with their knowledge and discoveries. Ratio, on the other hand, has many patents and many academic achievements, but it almost seems like he’s “playing safe” with his discoveries and not really breaking any barriers like the Genius Society (see: Ruan Mei’s research on the creation of life, Herta’s Simulated Universe, etc.) The Genius Society’ work also directly impacts history on a massive level (see: Rubert I’s war against organic lifeforms and Ruan Mei’s experiments directly impacting biological lifeforms as mentioned in her character story).

Two great examples of this include Yu Qingtu and Stephen Lloyd: two geniuses that many may argue haven’t achieved much. But that’s the thing. They’re both smart, they’re both intergalactically known…. But they’re using their smarts to do what they want to do, not what will garner people’s attention. Yu Qingtu using her intelligence for her cocktails, Stephen Lloyd using his smarts and love of video games to help develop the Simulated Universe. Hell, Stephen Lloyd has literally created something groundbreaking but just does not care enough to release it to the public, and would rather work at his father’s fruit shop and play video games.

Theory: Screwllum and Ratio are parallels to a degree. Screwllum’s character design theme deals greatly with insects, which is often an indicator of metamorphosis and change in characters. Screwllum also off-handedly mentions that he has the same habit of Ratio in the quest, meaning that he sees a bit of himself in Ratio. Story wise, Screwllum may be Ratio if Ratio had an ego death and ultimately stopped caring about gaining recognition. This would match Screwllum’s insect theme, which is oftentimes heavily associated with change when it comes to character design.

Following Penacony and Screwllum being the one in Ratio’s dreamscape, I’m more inclined to think that this is the correct line of thinking. That Ratio is essentially a pre-ego death and pre-Genius Society Screwllum. It should also be noted that Ratio was significantly kinder in this Dreamscape than in reality, being more like Screwllum than his usual self. There’s a reason that Aventurine wasn’t in Ratio’s dreamscape, and that it was specifically Screwllum.

It’s important to acknowledge that Hoyo likes to establish future parallels with a character’s introductory quest. A great example of this would be Sunday and Aventurine in Penacony. While the parallel wasn’t explicit in the very beginning, it became more and more obvious throughout the Penacony storyline. Some other examples we have of these parallels: Kafka & Himeko (knowing life is predestined versus the freedom of Trailblazing), Blade & Firefly (following destiny and want wanting to die as he should have versus not wanting to die and trying to avoid destiny), Robin & Aventurine’s sister.

Theory: Ratio and Ruan Mei are parallels to a degree. Ruan Mei’s quest is about the Trailblazer forgetting with her serum, Ratio’s quest is about the Trailblazer remembering. Ratio has dedicated himself to a path of Mundanite, while Ruan Mei seeks out Aeonhood. Both are morally gray and their experiments put the Herta Space Station into a level of crisis, to different degrees.

I am not entirely sure where this would lead, but they are certainly parallels character wise with the similarities in their introductory quests and personalities. I am more inclined to believe that Screwllum and Ratio parallels will be stronger because of their constant interactions during Ratio’s first introductory quest.

Overall analysis: Ratio’s story and analysis is found in the Genius Society, not in Penacony and not with the IPC. I also think that his story is one that is similar to Screwllum and, if he becomes a member of the Genius Society in the end, that it would parallel Screwllum’s acceptance into the Genius Society.