#Sentihuman plot

[familyagrestefanblog]

There is this ongoing thing with Adrien drawing back from kissing Marinette all the time, which at this point in "Collution" doesnt make sense anymore as him just 'backing out'. "Emotion" too brought this up already as legitimate issue Adrinette is going through that after the ending of "Adoration" every single time Adrinette tried to kiss, Adrien stopped it and even ran away.

This is a great opportunity for me to FINALLY talk about this massive subtext plot that started for real with the end of "Adoration" but up til now I didn't know from which angle I should approach an analysis post about it. This kissing detail being back and visually more elaborated on is EXACTLY what I needed!

In "Collusion" we see that Adrien's facial expression looks like as if an older order put in him is lighting up for a second preventing him from kissing her:

I mean, the shot composition is even purposfully leading your eyes towards Adrien's head with the background wall for example. It's clear who you're supposed to focus on the most.

"Emotion" already implied it through dialog but "Collusion" now pretty much proves that the one time on-screen we saw Adrien draw back from Marinette in "Emotion" wasn't merely caused by the damn phone (although this isnt the first time something weird happens with Adrien's phone this season) or an order somehow given in real time as one would assume, every single time after "Adoration" where Adrinette tried to kiss, Adrien seems to be stopped by an order Gabriel gave him after Gabriel turned Adrien into a puppet in the end scene and Marinette was so worried about if Adrien might be in danger in his home, but tried to remain hopeful:

This is something I figured for a while now. That we were supposed to feel exactly what Marinette is feeling here. She has no idea if Gabriel is doing something to Adrien and if its bad. She is the the outside person, she doesnt know whats happening in that house and she can't help Adrien once he's in it alone with his father. All she can do is hoping that there is another explaination.

Though that turns out to be wishful-thinking, because "Emotion" in fact has already told us that Gabriel did something to Adrien on this evening in "Adoration" after Adrien was forced back inside and Gabriel kept on and on twisting and using the ring while creeping backwards where WE know exactly that Adrien has just returned inside. They would have met in the foyer.

There is nothing far-fetched about a conversation having taken place once Marinette was gone and in my opinion it feels more like wishful denial to say that Gabriel 100% totally did not go to talk to his son. I mean, Adrinette was straight up about to have their first kiss right in Gabriel's view and that right after the events of "Protection", the episode right before "Adoration":

Re-enforcing to Adrien through harsher means to not be in a relationship with Marinette seems like a fitting punishment order Gabriel would pull after "Adoration's" horror show ending.

Give me a logical reason for why that wouldnt have been a realistic thing to happen? A reason that please isnt rooted in the logic of "we didnt see it when we followed Marinette's pov and therefore nothing happened". Cause I sure followed Marinette's pov and she ended this episode very alarmed and concerned.

Alarmed and concerned for a very good reason. The entirety of "Emotion" then goes on and on and ON about asking WHY Adrien is acting so weird and WHY he hasn't told Marinette about the Diamond Ball:

This question is a central theme all through the entire episode, and in the end the truth about Adrien's silence gets revealed.

Marinette herself has no idea and everyone else in this episode is also just giving their best guess of what makes the most sense for them. But that doesn't mean anybody actually got this right. And we know that because in the end Adrien outright SAYS that he didnt mention it because his father ORDERED him not to:

And then Adrien's and Gabriel's father son talk elaborates on that further from Gabriel's perspective:

I don't know what to tell you, it's right THERE. Adrien did not tell Marinette because Gabriel forbit it. It was an order Adrien couldnt go up against because it explicitly stated that Adrien is not allowed to tell Marinette specifically about the Diamond Ball. And as we saw in "Emotion" this order manifested in Adrien panicking around Marinette and lying in a way that at least somewhat still contained the truth:

I really find it upsetting when people victim-blame Adrien for not rebelling and "being brave" the way Félix and Kagami do (or even worse, compare him to Marinette who isnt a Sentihuman at all) because unlike them Adrien is not wearing his own amok AND is unfortunate enough to have both his parental figures wear them, so of course there are alot of direct interactions.

But if that one moment in "Collusin", where Adrien talks back at his father, indeed showcased Nathalie giving Adrien the means to really fight back for a moment by having laid her ring hand on Adrien's so one of his amoks would for the first time touch his skin and making it possible to nullify Gabriel's order depending on how passionately Adrien is against it, then this was a first taste of what Adrien would be like if he were given full control over himself:

Nathalie did that on purpose to protect Adrien from Gabriel and enable him to choose his own happiness as Emilie wished, which is what we saw moments before:

Adrien in "Emotion" and "Pretention" was not a 'coward', that is such disgusting victim-blaming against a person who is literally mind-controlled by their parent without even knowing it for their entire life. It's like giving Kagami shit for giving her amok back to her mother when Tomoe demands it, as if Kagami KNOWS that her ring holds her entire mental and physical autonomy. These poor children have it horrible enough being literally almost enslaved to their parents demands from the day they were born for some sort of sick purpose. Cool that Marinette doesn't have that problem at all and Félix doesn't have it anymore so THEY are able to do whatever they want, but they have no business being held as the golden standard.

This is about Kagami and Adrien who are still being taken advantage of and lied to ever since birth from the people who are supposed to love and protect them. Yes, they act weird and nerve-wreckingly sometimes and in ways that apparently dissappoints you because - of course - if you were a Sentihuman half enslaved and kept in the dark by your parent you would just choose to not have those problems, no biggie, but unfortunately Adrien and Kagami arent you.

They're weird and frustrated. Weird, frustrated, exhausted and abused little half-slaves, left in the dark and still minors so they cant escape anyway.

These things matter.

DETAILS matter.

Details like between the ending of "Adoration" and "Emotion" the episode has Marinette tell us that there was a time skip we didnt see in which Adrien has been acting very weird:

New and suspicious extremes MATTER.

Gabriel crossed a massive line by turning Adrien into a literal puppet at the end of "Adoration" seemingly for the first time from a further distance, since this seems to be the first time THIS happened in Adrien's head:

The fact alone that this was the instance where Gabriel crossed such a fundamental line is already a give-away that whatever is about to follow from Gabriel as Adrien's father from this moment onwards will be on an even more extreme layer of abusive. Which we know to be true from all the episodes afterwards.

But even if you wanna ignore all that, Marinette is then increasingly more worried about Adrien's safety in his home and everything regarding his father and has to truly face for the first time her underlying fear of "what if Gabriel isnt just a bad father?" and "What if Adrien is even being hurt in some way?" although she tried to approach it from deflecting angles until Gabriel talked to her in "Pretention".

But more and more Marinette is learning in what hellhole Adrien has been living in for all his life.

Because, you know, that is the case with highly abusive parents and its something one very likely has to face when one enteres a relationship. This is perfectly realistic, just the abuse method is fantasy. Something the show is not yet letting any of the children besides Félix know yet.

But we KNOW that Adrien is a Sentihuman at his abusive father's mercy and "Emotion" tells us that Marinette's concern at the end of "Adoration" was correct. Gabriel DID do something to Adrien but we, just like Marinette, couldnt fully see it because the biggest portion of the abuse happened behind closed doors as most abuse does. And Marinette, just like us, was left wondering what just happened to Adrien when she saw something disturbing happen to him which may stand in connection to his father.

And she, just like us, asks herself if he's even safe living with this man (no he isnt) when THIS is what happend to Adrien just being near his home and father:

And just like Marinette WE were supposed to find Adrien's silence after this concerning. Marinette read this correctly but she doesnt know yet how to properly interpret all of Adrien's types of silence and the family contexts surrounding it.

Adrien didnt tell Marinette about the Diamond Ball because Gabriel silenced his son, something that Adrien himself wouldnt properly recognize as such and only blames himself for as a failure on his part.

Who cares what the other characters' guesses are for why he didnt say anything? The only two people who truly know why Adrien didnt tell her are Adrien and Gabriel themselves because that's the abusive parent and his abused child. And that's the truth Marinette should be after. Not the one she prefers to be true and she is finally making good progress on that front.

And we can take the silencing in "Emotion" even further, because that wasn't the only time skip + silencing situation we had.

Just like in between "Adoration" and "Emotion", there is yet another significant time skip very cleverly handled - and almost hidden - between "Emotion" and "Pretention". We know that there is a time skip because once again Adrinette tells us:

Honestly, no doubt they will go back to these important time skips in season 6 or 7, there is so much important Marinette development for her love-related anxiety alone deliberately skipped before and after "Emotion" because of what it was entangled with. Not to mention everything else!

Optional rant ahead, I need to get this out of my system for a second: "Emotion" still barely makes sense and dont get me started on Félix! When do you think he fell in love with and stalked Kagami besides in the time skip? He wasnt in love with her before he found out at the diamond ball that she's like him, he probably barely made anything of her when he thought her to be a "normal human". Kagami and Marinette were not part of Felix' plan, Kagami he only just found out is a sentihuman too and therefore deserving of concideration for him, and Marinette wasnt even supposed to be there!

I swear, "Emotion" and the time skips before and afterwards are driving me crazy. I have to make a seperate post for the Felix and Amilie stuff alone and Adrien too was just plain weird in that episode with no proper explaination besides for the little amout that was required to make this work for Marinette's outsider perspective who doesnt know what's going on inside those families anyway. Félix apparently was gone for WEEKS and apparently both Adrien and Kagami knew that because they werent surprised hearing that and neither Gabriel nor Tomoe seemed to care that Amilie went off on Gabriel about it in infront of their children.

Félix was gone for weeks. Adrien knew it. And then we see Adrien immediately recognizing Félix as peacock miraculous holder even despite the magic; not being too surprised seeing Felix there transformed and AT ALL when he should be missing and is willing to go to him in a friendly enough and trusting manner despite that being weird too with no context! Félix is a completely new person who suddenly is aware that Adrien has always been a victim caught in a hellhole with Gabriel and what the fuck was that fake miraculous ring from Adrien Felix had?

Screw you, something happened there in this time skip before "Emotion" and we only got to see the tip of the ice berg! And screw this show for barely giving context for anything in "Emotion" yet because we are stuck with Marinette as main character and Adrien didnt wanted to involve her in his family shit because why would he?

*GROAN* I'm turning grey because of this damn show...

ANYWAY

What "Pretention" does very cleverly is picking up the same character goals established at the end of "Emotion" prior and starting this episode with it. But that doesnt mean at all that this is the next day. NOTHING about what Adrinette tells us about how Gabriel now breathes down their necks makes sense if this is merely the next day:

It's at the very least a couple of days and that's being VERY generous. I'm personally putting it at one week. That would mean Gabriel is being increasingly more of an ass for one school week where Adrinette has to get more and more creative (and Adrien ending up knowing when his father is busy) and at the beginning of the second Marinette has had it. One week is also a perfectly reasonable timeframe for the kids to put off talking to Gabriel and Tomoe while its also a realistic point in time where you would draw the line and motivate yourself again to finally do it.

Kagami's dialogue is the factor that very cleverly tricks the audience into thinking it can just be the next day since Kagami is "oh so much braver than Adrien who doesnt dare to talk to his father", which the episode then subverts by showing that Kagami rightfully fears her mother too and shouldnt be concidered less for it because Tomoe is an abusive hardass too who Kagami needs to be protected from as (her) child and Sentihuman who doesnt know she is one & the end of "Emotion" literally showed us Adrien talking to his father right after he told Marinette that he would try to convince him to have a heart-to-heart with her to clear up whatever he has against her:

Adrien did NOT fail to talk to his father after he said he would because we saw him do it right away. What he did "fail" to do though was mentioning towards the girls that he already talked with his father and tell them what Gabriel said - though that's understandable, Gabriel is being an irrational fuck; blaming the fiasco on Marinette when it's realistically on Félix - and to convince his father to talk to Marinette. But even for this Adrien's on-screen talk with Gabriel has the explaination for:

Did you pick up on the pattern too? That as well was an explicit order from Gabriel with the ring.

Adrien in "Pretention" didnt 'manage' to talk to his father again about him and Marinette so they can have a heart-to-heart because prior to that Gabriel forbit Adrien through an order to ever mention Marinette towards him again (and that means, since Adrinette didnt talk to Gabriel yet, Kagami in turn put off talking to her mother too)

So of course Adrien couldnt do it, which is why he went along with the only option he subconciously felt like he had left. Bringing Marinette to his father so SHE can talk to him by his side, forcing his father into a corner. Adrien unknowingly loopholed himself and out of Gabriel's order that's literally silencing him.

Details, time skips and circumstances matter.

So to bring this back to the failed Adrinette kissing in "Collution":

I'm pretty sure that from the ending of "Adoration" onwards we are now going to see a further and further escalation of ways for Gabriel to enforce his power over Adrien. Regularly just as his father (which is already bad enough) and also the ways in which Gabriel can hurt Adrien through the amok ring

- but in ways he can for now at least somewhat still hide from Nathalie, though no doubt this is going to end BADLY where even Nathalie cant help Adrien anymore as it was already established that Gabriel can absolutely do that and still cross so many more lines-

and in "Emotion" that already included silencing Adrien from letting Marinette know about the Diamond Ball and then not letting him talk about Marinette to him at all (for which I'm quite sure Nathalie touching Adrien with the amok ring in "Collution" helped Adrien break through that barrier because that WAS the first time he really talked ABOUT Marinette towards Gabriel since "Emotion" that isnt just him mentioning her name in logical situations or vaguely talking around the relationship topic like in "Pretention").

But I'm also betting that Gabriel odered Adrien to not kiss Marinette after he puppeteered Adrien back into the mansion in "Adoration" or some other variation of an official grand gesture that Adrien is in a relationship with her. Something that... yeah, DID indeed stop after "Protection", didn't it? (Ooh. That explains why the date was made such a big deal for Adrien's story through the parallels to Gabriel's and Emilie's date in the past in "Evolution"; that was the last time Adrien was able to do something like that...)

But poor Adrien of course does not know the true reason for why he's still hesitating to kiss Marinette even now in "Collusion". He must be so relieved that Marinette is reading it as him needing more time with her too to get comfortable enough to kiss. It's so rough watching all these episodes and seeing Adrien beat himself up and think so low of himself when he's literally being abused through mind-control. All I want is for Adrien to finally have his rings on his hand like Félix and Kagami get to. I just want my boy to be free :'(

[chocostrwberry]

Sentimaggedon!!

Sentimonster designs I came up with bc I was thinking about Argos’s debut in my AU! Bc I’m dumb and I haven’t thought too deep about him as a character to the story yet-

They were originally suppose to all be based on the seven deadly sins, especially Gasumptious (gluttony) and Elvy (envy). But I also wanted to branch into maybe Felix’s other hidden emotions, like his deep love for Kagami and his fear of being replaced by Adrien (Bride and Athazagora).

Argos becomes an official enemy when Dragonbug tells him they need to be destroyed. He defends them, saying they’re just “infants” and can learn how to behave properly with time. But a frustrated and exhausted Dragonbug she tells him they aren’t like humans and are created for one purpose: to serve and destroy. This hits home with Argos, and he develops a fear and hatred for Ladybug and swears his loyalty to Madame Morphisa afterwards in order to take her down and prove just how monstrous he can be.

I’m still kinda trying to find a way to make this concept work in my au. He promised to serve her in exchange for the peacock miraculous, and she wants him to use it to take Ladybug’s miraculous. In a novice attempt, he might have just starting creating multiple sentimonsters that he thought were harmless enough (something she did NOT expect), but they quickly spiraled out of control. It’s much easier to make sentimonsters based on others emotions, because you can predict which one you will create it off of. But instead, he chose his own, which makes it more difficult to tell how the sentimonster will act. I think it would show the aspect that these creatures do have a mind of their own, compared to previous Mayura sentimonsters who were easily controlled by their akumas!!

Red Moon

Red Moon is obviously already canon, but her power is instead hypnosis. If you get caught in her light, you stop whatever you are doing to stare at her. The streets of Paris become like a statue exhibit: countless of unlucky citizens are bathing in her glow, staring at the beauty of the red moon.

Gasumptious

As he devours, Gasumptious grows bigger and bigger. He’ll eat anything, so beware! After finishing most of the city, Gasumptious sits atop the Eiffel Tower and gnaws on its metal posts.

Elvy

Elvy lives in the sewers. She can control water and uses it to drain you of happy memories, which she keeps in floating green orbs and guards for herself.

It’s so silly to me how the manifestation of Felix’s jealousy of Adrien is fought and defeated by Chat Noir, who is Adrien ehehehheeh.

She also sounds like a Pokémon!! Probably like a Lapras, or the one that trills really pretty

Athazagora

A timid creature, Athazagora took over the catacombs, and hides in the shadows. You can hear the creaking and rattling of its wooden limbs in the dark as it stalk you. If you can’t escape, it envelops you in its cloak of darkness, never to be seen again.

Bride

The supposed advisor of Argos. She never leaves his side, and is always whispering something in his ear. To protect Argos, she showcases her ability to turn her arm into a long spear/sword, incredible strength and mobility, and that her body is made of an indestructible crystal.

Plus, he can make multiple sentimonsters bc he’s a sentihuman himself (Other people can’t. You can only make one, kind of like how the Butterfly miraculous can only Akumatize one person at a time, unless they share an object. Current excuse I’m going with that makes semi-sense HEHEHE) . So Lila totally wants to use that to her own advantage!

Ofc he fails, but she’s impressed with his resolve (and the lengths he was willing to go, albeit unintentionally), especially after sharing her goal of destroying Ladybug. Lila was feeling the effects of unification and now has a willing minion to do her bidding whenever she pleases.

If I decide to go with this plot, Lila has to end up forgetting Felix because of the curse. But she doesn’t care: all she really needs is Argos. I might need to retcon her revenge against Felix because of this but idm! It wasn’t very important to the plot anyways!

I was considering having Dragonbug in this episode, since she could use Perfection to snipe Red Moon out of the sky! The lucky charm would be like a wand that creates a sticky translucent web to keep the sentimonsters secure so they can go find their amoks.

And a sentimonster I never ended up including, Ava. I just didn’t have a reason to put her in there but I liked the yin and yang style of her design!!

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Kinda relating to your latest post about Lila as a villain/new butterfly:

Honestly, I think it would've been more interesting if the new villain had a different miraculous (let Nooroo rest pls). Or better yet, a TEAM of supervillains. That way there could've been new powers that the hero team has to adjust to. Buuut that obviously would've required better lore and world building like 2 seasons ago so..┐⁠(⁠´⁠ー⁠｀⁠)⁠┌

Also I've seen a theory that Lila is actually also a sentibeing and that's why everyone believes her lies without any critical thinking (or just basic IQ). I think the whole sentibeings thing is the stupidest plot in the show, but in Lila's case I would be willing to accept it because anything would be better than a 15yo mean girl being Ladybug's biggest threat yet...

(Post in question)

I completely agree with everything you said, especially the sentiLila stuff. If sentihumans have to be a thing, then for the love of the gods use that plot point to explain Lila! Something, anything, to justify why she's able to do the absurd things canon lets her do! Plus I'd just like to see one of the sentihumans get special powers because what's the point of introducing magical constructs that can have super powers if you don't give them super powers? I believe that Adrien was literally made from love and yet he gets no love-based powers even though he absolutely should!!! The setup for it is perfect! (See power of love rant for more on this.)

In case anyone is curious, I'll quickly address fixing Lila on a broader scale since I've got posts that I can link to. The sentimonster take would be my path if you wanted to have her use a miraculous and be tied to the Agreste plot, but I personally prefer this fix:

In this AU, Lila is from some sort of evil organization that uses their power for evil purposes (there are lots of routes you can got with this from evil magic to evil company, so let's stay high level and not commit to a path). The organization sees the miraculous being used in Paris and sends Lila to Paris to try to get her hands on the miraculous. Lila is specifically sent because of the Ladyblog. The organization views Alya as an easy in and so they send a teenage member or someone's kid who desperately wants to be part of the group. This new Lila shows up claiming to be a Ladybug superfan, which instantly bonds her to Alya. Marinette's dislike of Lila now stems from Lila wanting to know all of Ladybug's secrets, which obviously raises red flags for Marinette, but not for Alya because Alya wants the same thing. In fact, Alya is really baffled why Lila's obsession rubs Marinette the wrong way because Marinette has always been fine with Alya having the same obsession. We know that the answer is that Marinette trusts Alya, but Lila is a wild card, but of course Alya doesn't know any of that. This makes the Marinette and Alya clash over Lila a lot more complex because it's no longer about lies. It's about trust and Marinette has no way to explain why trust is a factor without outing herself as Ladybug.

This still makes the miraculous the reason for Lila's presence, but you mitigate that by having her tied to some evil group that does evil things without miraculous magic. This evil group would simply like to add a miraculous to their arsenal because miraculous sound quite useful. Defeating the evil group has non-miraculous-based benefits for society, thereby making the miraculous feel like a benefit to society instead of something that should probably be destroyed since they seem to cause more harm than good.

[ilikekidsshows]

I just noticed that some (most?) senti defender mostly think people who hate the senti BS hate the plot because Adrien isn't ...human? Because I saw them comparing Adrien with Nobody, Grimwalker (I think, from Owl House?) and I saw them even quoting Mew Two about the circumstances of one birth doesn't matter and it just so wild for me because they seems to be missing the most important point about a sentimonster which is the fucking remote control!

ADrien being a magical being is the least of the problem here, the one hit kill isn't even close to being as being problematic as the fact that SENTIMONSTER IS A BEING WITH REMOTE CONTROL AND ANYONE WHO HAVE IT CAN FREELY CONTROL THEM AS THEY WISH! Them renamed it to Sentihuman doesn't even erase the fact that they still aren't human and still a magical being with a fucking remote control!!

"But it's good for angst for bodily autonomy!" I saw some people said it. And here I thought angst supposed to have a happy ending to balance it, but what kind of happy ending that a sentimonster can have, who's life is so ephemeral? Who's agency can be overwritten by anyone anytime? Unless Adrien can be like a Pinokio then sure... But at this point I don't think Adrien as sentimonster even matter in Marinette's eyes, until she feels the need to control him for whatever bulshit excuses and justification that she can muster that is. Ephemeral exist as a case of point after all.

---

The argument that people against the ���Sentipeople” concept just don’t like nonhuman characters has been around since the start. It’s a purposeful way of misreading the very first argument for why it was a bad idea: “it would dehumanize Adrien.” The people in support of such a storyline decided that “dehumanize” means literally making him not human, and that was inherently bad, when, all along, “dehumanize” means “deprive of human qualities, personality and dignity” (Merriam-Webster). It’s not the act of making a fictional character not human, it’s the act of depicting a human being as someone undeserving of similar dignity and consideration as what are considered as normal people. Dehumanization can be, for example, ignoring the struggles and traumas of real people, in favor of focusing on a more favored group of people. Miraculous, by turning Adrien into a Sentimonster, turns the focus from his reactions to how he’s being victimized by his parents to why his parents decided to have a Sentimonster kid. And we find out they were unable to have a child, so tragic :’(

This approach to “Sentipeople” was foreseen, by several people, but the fandom supportive of the idea ignored all these explanations and just focused on the word “dehumanize”, because it was the easiest to misinterpret to serve their narrative, which was that the people opposed to the concept are the ones not treating Adrien as human, because they’re the ones saying turning an abuse victim into a literal monster makes him less sympathetic! The writers never said that so there’s no way that could be a real thing that could happen! The idea of “SentiAdrien has very ableist, abuse-enabling connotations” being a statement of fact is inconceivable.

Never mind how the canon has made it blatantly clear that the “Sentipeople” concept will never, ever be tackled from the perspective of our most prominent example of one. The arc with Adrien’s supervillain dad finally gets wrapped up and he doesn’t just sit it out, he’s left oblivious of anything that happened. It’s obvious Adrien being a Sentimonster isn’t actually relevant to Adrien. It was there because the writers desperately wanted more attention and to give Emilie a “sympathetic” reason to use Miraculous with the superpower of creating beings lesser to humans that exist to serve a single purpose and then die, the human equivalent of tissue paper. The most fucked up superpower ever to create the most nightmarish scenario to be born into, and it’s used to excuse why Adrien’s obviously abusive upbringing wasn’t actually his parents’ fault; Adrien was just born different and had to be kept away from normal people for his own good because he’s just so susceptible as a Sentimonster.

The fandom is once again doing the heavy lifting for this show’s writers by creating these imaginary versions of the show where a Sentipeople story totally gets told from Adrien’s perspective and respects Adrien’s agency and humanity, when the canon gives us the opposite. Similarly, the canon is still calling them “Sentimonsters” with the fandom insisting terms like “Sentipeople” and “Sentihumans” be used instead, or else it’s the fans disrespecting Adrien’s humanity.

The fandom just loves to blame critical fans for the show’s failings. The show treats Adrien like the Pearls in Steven Universe, but, if we point it out, we’re the ones stripping away Adrien’s humanity and reducing him into an object to be owned. The show writers did it first, we’re just pointing it out.

Other people are scared Marinette will go through Adrien's phone in the future of the show (again). I'm scared Adrien will give Marinette his Amok as a token of his love, giving her half of his literal being, possibly without knowing he's doing so, and Marinette will have to accept or she'll hurt his feelings by refusing to accept the symbol of his feelings for her, and the fandom will cheer over how romantic it is.

[heidi891]

The Most Disturbing Scene

In season 5 Gabriel does many terrible things, but I find the scene from Pretension when he forces Adrien to go to his room the most disturbing.

Obviously this isn’t as bad as being locked in the isolation chamber while having a horrible nightmare, but even in those awful circumstances Adrien is aware of what’s happening and is able to make a decision. He still has some agency, even if very limited. But in Pretension?

When Adrien and Marinette get to his home, she’s nervous and he takes the lead: he comforts her, takes her hand, leads her to the kitchen and talks to his father.

But then Gabriel, using his wedding ring, forces him to go to his room, leaving his girlfriend alone with his father. During their conversation Adrien is standing at the door in his room with his hand on the doorknob.

He’s shocked and devastated. He desperately wants to go back to the kitchen, but he’s unable to do so. He doesn’t understand what’s happening and why he cannot make the simplest decision to walk out of the room.

Gabriel told him to do many things Adrien wasn’t happy about, but he was able to come to terms with them. But the current order goes completely against his will and personality. Though he’s rather passive and submissive, he’s shown to be brave and protective. In The Origins he fights the villain without hesitation unlike Ladybug, in S2 Reverser he becomes scared of everything (meaning that normally he’s brave) and in S4 Truth Ladybug admits she appreciates his courage. He isn’t brave only as Chat Noir, but as Adrien too, i.e. he fights the villains in S3 Puppeteer 2 and S5 Protection. Now he’s forced to abandon the girl he loves, unable to protect her. It’s heartbreaking.

I’m generally not a fan of “human-but-not-really” storylines, but in Adrien’s plot him being a Sentihuman and Gabriel using his Amok show that it isn’t Adrien’s fault nor choice. He isn’t weak and spineless. It’s literally beyond his control.

I hope no one does that to him ever again.

[my-lady-noir]

I dont know, I don't think I like this sentihuman plot going on for adrien, felix and kagami...

Like, I know that all the imagery and symbolism points to it but I just refuse to believe it and I'm really hoping it's just one of those "theories so widely accepted that they're considered cannon"

It doesn't seem like something that was meant to happen?? like, the show was meant to be modern-day but with superheros and a villain not with the added fantasy element of miraculously created children

it just doesn't seem like something we signed up for in the earlier seasons. and I'm just really disappointed because I love the characters but I'm starting to hate the plot. I guess it just really depends how they play out this part of the plot in the next season

[mamayura]

I wonder if Gabriel (or anyone really) could use Adriens amok object, the ring (both rings?) and be able to cause him to become physically sick or something similar?

Cause If the control object is able to control the physical body and mind of a Sentibeing then, theoretically speaking, the person in possession of the amok object should definitely be able to cause a physical reaction within the body regarding the HEALTH of the Sentihuman/being too. For as long as they want and as extreme as they want.

This whole situation is a damn horror movie plot, I can't get over how fucked up this is in concept

[sweetcloverheart]

Honestly speaking (and maybe a bit of an unpopular opinion) - Felix had way more parallels between himself and Chloe than he did with Kagami (even with the Sentihuman connection) -

Abusive parent who's approval they craved VS Indulging parent with unconditional love (Only Andre's was just another form of neglect while Amelie was doing it out of genuine care for her son)

Hatred of others "Not like them" (Humans/Peasants)

Overcompensates with a dramatic and haughty attitude or being an absolute jerk

Acts like a bully but has moments of kindness

Consistent theme of "control"

Royalty (Felix being of noble blood and the monarchist themes throughout all of Chloe's other Akuma forms)

Having a "Good Twin" everyone likes better who they're always compared to in the worse ways

The one person who they "care for"/treat differently from the group they hate (Sabrina & Amelie)

Always puts themself first when danger arises

Loves Adrien and Hates Ladybug (or at least Chloe starts to in S4)

Frankly, if the writers weren't so obsessed with reusing (and later getting rid of) Kagami as a lovesquare obstacle for S5, they could of used the arranged marriage plotline with Chloe and Adrien to help hype up the former as a legitimate threat/villain (Chloe, unlike Kagami, would be easier to reign in and control for the villains and wouldn't require Amok commands). Felix would try going through with his "Red Moon Murder" plot and plan on getting rid of Chloe first, only to realize she's a victim of Gabe's "perfect world" bs too despite "being a bad human" and try to convince her she's being used so they can take the adults down together

Or you can have them bond over their mutual evilness and form an villain throuple trio with them and Lila who goes around messing up Gabriel and Tomoe's schemes. Either works

If they were going to force Félix into a sudden romance with one of Marinette's love rivals, I wish they had paired him with Chloé instead of Kagami.

[chatsmouse]

In my opinion, Marinette keeping Gabriel's secret from Adrien is one of the best things that came from the leak.

Adrien has a grand total of 3 alive family members that we know of. I am purposefully excluding Nathalie and the Gorilla as they would not be there if they weren't on Gabriel's payroll.

Amelie lives in London with her own life. While Adrien clearly loves her, she's not steady support for him unless he moves in with her.

Felix established himself as the enemy to Ladybug and Chat Noir last season. Adrien is aware of what his cousin did to help Hawkmoth and whether he will ever choose to forgive Felix for the betrayal will be another question yet to be answered. My guess is it'll depend on whether or not the Sentihuman thing comes in as a plot point this season.

Gabriel is all Adrien has. We, as viewers, see Gabriel as emotionally distant and abusive towards Adrien. He gives Adrien everything he needs except for freedom. Adrien doesn't have the same perspective we do. He sees a father that loves him and wants to protect him. Gabriel was probably a lot different before Emilie "went away." Adrien, while unhappy with modeling and being restricted from being a normal child, still loves his father and looks up to him. We see this in the few genuine moments that they have together.

How can Marinette, in good conscience, take that away from him? How can she look Adrien Agreste in the eyes and tell him that his father was the domestic terrorist that hurt her, hurt Paris, and hurt him on multiple occasions? And tell him the reason why?

Chat Blanc and Ephemeral proves that Adrien gets akumatized everytime he finds out and with Marinette still failing to secure the Butterfly at the end of season 5, its safer that Gabriel is given the opportunity to repair his relationship with his child and become a better parent.

THIS is Marinette protecting Adrien, not Ladybug keeping more secrets because of old habits. We've seen Adrien protecting her physically, we see Chat and LB protecting and helping eachother all the time. Regardless of whether there is a reveal this season, Adrien is one of Marinette's best friends (and possibly her boyfriend at this time). Marinette is taking the trauma Adrien would have had with this knowledge. If the knowledge that Gabriel Agreste was Hawkmoth got out, Adrien's life would be altered and there would be no undoing it.

but to be clear: Fuck Gabriel Agreste, hope u die bitch

[familyagrestefanblog]

I don't have much time this weekend which is unfortunate bc I actually really wanna talk about "Derision", but honestly, most of my problems with this episode are rooted in the fact that this episode had no business being halfway through season 5.

Marinette's backstory of being bullied before canon started the way "Derision" executed it is season 2 material, season 3 at most. Marinette is the main character and this traumatic event is not a narrative plot twist, it's vital information about how we are supposed to read her, her behavior and ALOT of other characters, her relation to them, their behaviors and their role in the show.

This traumatic event of the past is not equal to for example the Sentihuman narrative twist. Those are two entirely different story layers. That one CAN be revealed late in the story, but withholding Marinette's crucial backstory, the extent to which the bullying happened which is then also the reasoning for the main characters more problematic behaviors all through the ENTIRE show is not the same. THIS is just a beyond questionable writing decision.

In season 5 this seriously isn't a "Gotcha, Marinette haters!", this is a "Where tf has this information been for the last 2-3 seasons?? Would have been NICE to know while so MANY of those included character and narrative arcs have already passed at this point!"

[dfcfanfics]

So, if _I_ was plotting Strikeback...

Some theorycrafting and general noodling around going into Strikeback and Season 5.

First, assumptions:

1) The show is not about to fundamentally change in any major way that would change its overall tone and storytelling dynamic.

Serial episodic continuity is not going to arrive and allow for more complex storytelling. Episodes will continue to air in a haphazard order as they are completed and translated. The main audience targeted by the show will remain ages 5-11, as Astruc has emphasized. The monster-of-the-week formula will remain going forward. And with that being said...

2) The title "Last Attack of Shadowmoth" is something of a fakeout.

Gabriel Agreste is not going anywhere, being captured, being jailed or being revealed to the world at large as Hawk/Shadowmoth. That would fundamentally end the show as we've known it, that would disrupt Adrien's life in a multitude of ways, and given that a large portion of the final 22 minutes of Season 4 will be Our Heroes battling SpikeBot 3000 and his spawns, there simply isn't time to write the series's archvillain out of the picture for good and set up the many, many repercussions -- not to mention that there isn't a secondary big-bad waiting in the wings ready to pick up where he left off!

But "Shadowmoth" is a specific construct, the combination of the Moth and Peacock used by Gabriel Agreste. And that tells me that one of those three elements is exiting the equation.

3) The Adrien that we know and love is a sentimonster.

The clues are there, the behavior that Felix witnessed in Risk is all but confirmation, and Astruc insisting repeatedly on Twitter that "while I am not confirming any theories, a sentihuman is as human as any other human is, so stop calling him 'feather boy'" hints that there's more to that than "don't call him 'feather boy' because he isn't one."

So, what might we see in my fantasy draft of Strikeback?

1) No one dies.

See above: "ages 5 to 11." Not that death is unknown to the Miracuverse (hello, massive flood covering Paris with water, hello, giant volcano in downtown, hello, Chat Noir dissolved by Timebreaker), but it is reversed whenever possible. The only walking, talking characters I can think of that have been permanently banished were sentis (Sentibug, Sentibubbler, etc.) that were explicitly shown being created for a villainous purpose. Even if Felix and/or Adrien are sentis, they've been established as sentient characters rather than as plot devices.

2) Goodbye, Felix.

That said, Feather Boy #2 simply knows too much now to remain. Lila will figure the cousin-switch out rapidly, and she would betray Felix to Gabe for a ham sandwich or any other specified reward. And if Felix continues to remain on the show with what he knows, he's either going to expose Gabe (which changes the show) or everyone will have to start taking idiot pills each morning.

Does Gabe have the testicular fortitude ([tm] Mick Foley) to simply 'turn off' his only nephew, something that would raise just a few uncomfortable questions from many people, especially Amelie? Probably not. He is not a cold killer, much less towards someone in his own family.

I suspect that Felix will get an unpleasant warning, with the corresponding revelation that the Peacock in Felix's bag is a fake (thus, that Gabe is fully aware of what Felix knows and holds Felix's life in his hands). "Get off the train, never come back, never say a word, NEVER tell my son, or the last thing you'll see is your body turning into bubble soup."

3) A half-reveal is possible... but unlikely. Yet.

We have all seen the screencap of Ladybug blushing hard at Chat and giving him eyes of adoration. It is possible that through her mucking about with Fluff and alternate timelines, she'd realize that Adrien is Chat Noir, and that face is the result of that.

Only half, if it happens. Because I could see Marinette realizing that and feeling fifty kinds of love for him in both his forms but also wrestling with the whole "I'm the Ladybug, I'm the Guardian, I have too many responsibilities, I really can't date him" moral dilemma and having that be a big theme into S5.

But Adrien finding Felix's spy tool thingy at the end of Risk hints at something different. I'm picturing Adrien following in Felix's footsteps, figuring things out, then telling Ladybug (as Chat) "I'm a Sentimonster. I always have been." Then insisting that he's staying in the fight anyway, despite the one-snap risk to his life by battling a Peacock host, "because that's what I'm meant to do. To be by your side."

And she just wibbles.

That leaves reveals for later, that leaves questions in the air (how can she fully trust him if he's a senti, what else does he know, how can Adrien work to undermine and expose his father without giving away what HE now knows?), and that adds up decently for a season-ending cliffhanger.

4) Gabriel stops using the Peacock.

I can imagine a near-miss situation, something where he decides to eliminate Sentifelix and finds out at the last possible moment from Lila that that's not Felix, that's Adrien that he's looking at. That as long as it's around, the Peacock poses a mortal threat to his son.

He's not going to quit altogether; his need to revive his wife is too strong. He's not going to give the Peacock to someone other than Nathalie (like, say, Lila) because that puts life-and-death for Adrien in someone else's hands. Nathalie is still too broken to return to being Mayura. And, as previously noted, the Gabe + Moth + Peacock dynamic has to change in some way based on the arc title.

"Nooroo, give me the power to create a twenty-kilometer-long hole in the ground, right here, and to close it up thirty seconds later."

*drops Peacock in*

Or "Nooroo, give me the power to teleport this Miraculous to a moon of Jupiter," or whatever. Something to take it off the playing field, lest someone else obtain it and have complete blackmail material over him. After all, if not for the fakes he'd planted, that would be happening now.

And we enter Season 5 with Adrien aware that he's a senti and that his father is Hawkmoth, but hesitant to simply expose him because then what happens to his mother? The boy is torn inside. Marinette knows that Chat is a senti and Chat knows more than he's saying, which creates major tensions between LB and CN. Hawkmoth returns to normal operating parameters. And Adrien works and plots against his father, trying to eliminate the threat of the Miraculous that his father no longer has.

So... go ahead, tear that apart.

[flightfoot]

Do you think a senti plot would be good thing for the Show in General? I mean Thomas has to Hammer the point sentis are human nearly daily on Twitter. If adults or Teenager don't get the point or have to ask himself, how would kids understand it. Espacilly with them using more then 1 sentihuman in season 4.

I think kids are more likely to just accept what the show says at face value, so I don't think it would be that big of an issue.

[ilikekidsshows]

A lot of people say that Adrien being a sentihuman was foreshadowed by his feather allergy in season 1 or Adrien being described as perfect, an adjective used for Sentibug and Sentigabriel. How do you feel about the possible foreshadowing ML did for the theory?

That's no foreshadowing, that's coincidences that happened to align well with something that was retconned. Because, here's the thing, if SentiAdrien was planned before season four, each season before it has episodes where the plot makes no sense if Gabriel could instantly Assume Direct Control of Adrien.

Minor details are less important than the literal plot of episodes like 'Origins', 'Gorizilla' or 'Cat Blanc' where Gabriel needed to control Adrien but seemed to have no easy way of doing so.

Adrien is allergic to feathers because he's a cat. It's a joke that was implied in the PV before the show we got even existed. No other Sentimonster has an affinity or aversion to feathers. It's stretching so far I'm surprised people haven't dislocated something.

"Perfect" is a very common word. It means "flawless" or perceiving something to be flawless. It is not an aspect of a Sentimonster (two Sentimonsters called such means 11,7% of all Sentimonsters, so 88,3% of Sentimonsters are not “perfect”), it's an aspect of perfectionism, which is a trait shared by and connected to several key characters in ML, especially the people using it. Gabriel and Marinette are both perfectionists and project their concept of perfection onto Adrien. It makes sense for all three of them to use the word. It's theming and a part of the show's parallels. This one is also stretching it, but it's more understandable than the stupid feather one.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Wait, this means that the ring we saw in "Gabriel Agreste" Winny is talking about here is the one Félix put on in front of Gabriel claiming it's a copy to trick his mother

That brings along very confusing implications ngl.

Because Gabriel right afterwards in Nathalies room reveals that he was able to recognize that the ring Félix gave him isn't Emilies ring, that he can recognize it among thousands

This made me think that the crucial problem in Félix plan in "Gabriel Agreste" was that he didn't know yet that 1) Gabriel is ShadowMoth and 2) that Adrien is a Sentihuman too and the two rings of his parents his amok objects. Meaning Félix plan would have failed here because he didn't know that Gabriel is able to FEEL to amok inside of Emilies ring to know and recognize the right ring, through wearing the Peacock miraculous.

Both of these factors would have been eliminated by "Strike Back" because Gabriel wasn't wearing the Peacock miraculous at the moment of the exchange to check if it is not a fake again and Félix knew that Gabriel is ShadowMoth and Adrien is a Sentihuman at least by "Risk" to make the ring fake out work this time around.

But apparently this is just not the case?

Gabriel recognized Emilies ring through something else than Adriens amok in it and apparently can't feel it at all since Félix just put on the true ring right in front of him but Gabriel didn't know that it was

It means Félix deadass did NOT keep the ring he stole from Gabriel somewhere safe back in London but brought it right back into the Agreste Mansion for honestly no reason? Félix this is not how stealing works what are you doing. Cause even if he merely tried to draw the attention away from the true ring he is wearing on his finger, why would Félix even RISK this? Just leave it somewhere safe man, the drawing attention away from the ring you are wearing would only last for this very day anyway. Next time your uncle sees you he would still have no reason to actually believe that you are not wearing the true one NOW. He knows you tried to trick him.

Is this why Félix wore no ring at all when he came back in the finale?

Was he at least THIS TIME smart enough to keep the true ring away from Gabriels presence? Huh, no he didn't. He just brought it along again for some reason

Why is Félix constantly bringing that ring along with him even though it's such a huge unnecessary risk?

Did he KNOW that Adrien is a Sentihuman like him all along and truly kept the ring as possible leverage against Gabriel, using Adrien basically as a hostage? But Félix was never shown to have used the ring against Adrien, did he ust think that Adriens amok was JUST on the one ring Gabriel wore til "Félix" but then Félix found out in "Risk" that both wedding rings have an effect on Adrien?

But like, if Félix KNEW that Adrien is a Sentihuman like him already back in "Félix" that makes him outright awful again and Félix' actions in the s4 finale are once again despicable with no layer of obliviousness being there to possibly work in his favor.

I really hate sometimes how this show has entire plot lines in a season that only make sense with the context given one season later.

And if the ring Félix wore in "Gabriel Agreste" was actually Adriens one amok ring that means that ShadowMoth put an Akuma into Adriens ring without knowing it

So if Félix had gotten akumatized in this episode what would have happened to Adrien when Ladybug and Chat Noir had have to destroy the ring to get the akuma? Nothing? Something?? You are trying to tell me Gabriel got THIS close to possibly excessively hurting Adrien with no going back and he didn't even knew it? Because for some reason not even transformed ShadowMoth could feel the amok connection the ring Félix wore to his own son?

How did Gabriel recognize the legitimacy of the ring both times in "Gabriel Agreste" and "Strike Back" but didn't notice the ring Félix wore right in front of him?

How does this even work?

So at least now i know which ring it was in strike back gabriel got 🤣

[sweetcloverheart]

Honesty, the writers should have pushed back/saved the Chlolila big bad collab for the finale/S6 and made Felix the main secondary badguy for this one. At this point, neither of the former have had enough interactions with each other or the necessary relevance to the plot to make their scheme in “Revelations” compelling (not at all helped by how much they’re rushing everything). Plus the Sentihuman plot is, frankly, more important to the story lore/main plotline and could have used the extra focus than what it got in “Emotion”.

also honestly this isn't even me being petty i fully think felix should have been the focus from emotion onward instead of lila and chloe . there was so much to extrapolate from felix's speech because just like ladybug found his methods to be the same as monarch's, he also points out that she's just like him in some ways and it's not completely wrong either because right in the next episode we see for ourselves how similar gabriel and marinette are - and the former was just as bright and hopeful as her before all his dreams got crushed or whatever. he wasn't off the mark at all