#TPN 074

[fullscoreshenanigans]

#i cant tell what roleswap scenario would be interesting #Emma and Norman swap places in most ways. Emma wants to eliminate the demons / Norman wants peace OR #Emma goes to Lambda/Norman goes to Goldy Pond HOWEVER Emma still wants peace. and Norman still wants to eliminate the demons #like is their opposite views on demons more so a result of the things they experienced after leaving Grace Field? #or does it rely more heavily on just who they are and how they were raised AT Grace Field #would the experiments at Lambda be able to push Emma into wanting to kill the all the demons? #would meeting Yuugo/Lucas/everyone at Goldy Pond. would meeting Mujika/Sonju make Norman want peace? #i feel like it wouldn't. i think it would change things a lot but i feel like their initial goals could remain the same #i mean ultimately they fit perfectly in the spot of the story that they are in #but its fun to think abt #i just need to figure out how Ray would be changed. i thought abt it too much in the context of Norman and Emma (via @polychromatiica)

#possibly the most interesting direction I’ve seen for this concept #like— Lambda!Emma will have to face moral crises and quandaries that canon!Emma never did #but I don’t think that would be enough to break her idealism (it didn’t really break Norman’s either) #an Emma whose ‘nobody can die’ philosophy and leadership is genuinely challenged?? that’s terrifying to me #an Emma who has to decide whether or not to ‘mercy-kill’ the mass production children— but she’d definitely make that a group decision #in that way she’s healthier than Norman but also crueler and this idea is INSANE #and Goldy Pond!Norman will confront a wider range of demons—Sonju and Mujika but also the corrupt GP aristocrats #he wouldn’t hesitate to go for the kill with Leuvis #and he’d still be surrounded by kids who hate demons and have suffered because of them #BUT he’d have a far healthier adult figure in Lucas (if not Yugo) then he ever had in canon #and he wouldn’t be nearly as much of a ‘savior’ figure this time around #so there’s all sorts of ambiguity with that #and RAYYYYY #a Ray who escapes with Norman not Emma? #he definitely still gets better mentally but it would look so different!! #because I don’t think a Ray who escapes with Norman has been ‘shocked’ in the same way that canon!Ray has #because Ray already respected Norman as the ‘best’ of them #and without Emma’s victory allowing him to fall for the ferocious joy and surprise of her perspective he wouldn’t change as much or as fast #because ‘you don’t have to give up’ comes from Norman but Ray needed Emma to pull him out of his mindset #Emma expands Ray’s world and Norman transforms it (via @esthelle-wanders)

#LOVE THE IDEA OF THIS AU SO MUCH!!!! #it would be such poetic/narrative justice if they went through each others experiences with their respective worldviews still in tact #i can imagine Emma seeing her worldview justified because both human researchers AND demons are at Lambda #so both are equally capable of being human/horrible #while Norman has a much more hostile view of Yuugo like he originally had with wanting to leave Ray behind #it would be so interesting if Emma's mentality while seeing Yuugo suffer was “we have to save him with the kindness he never got but we did” #while Norman and Ray's would be “being kind didn't save the one person who wanted to save everyone so why should we save him?” #it would be SO interesting for Ray and Norman to have a more selfish/grounded perspective in Goldy Pond #prioritizing the info on Minerva and getting out to save their own family and not risking their survival for someone else's (via @graphx)

kinda rushed and also a little bit of a wip, au concept, very half baked, cuz tryna figure out how ray would fit into it is my hugest issue but lil outfit/role swap of emma and norman, mostly just wanted to draw tpn fanart again as its been a lil bit since i have

[fullscoreshenanigans]

When do you think each of the fullscore trio realizes their feelings for each other?

Copying from this post but I generally hold these sentiments:

Sometimes I go back and forth on this with Emma realizing it earlier but keeping it to herself so the boys have more time to digest and put a name to their feelings so as not to pressure them. She has a very acute emotional awareness.

…except maybe when it comes to herself, lol. Feel like the comparative obliviousness on the matter is the final roadblock for most of her ships with her Type A personality. If she’s aware of it and knows it’s mutual, it’s so hard to see her not just going for it, especially with these two with how badly they can get stuck in their own heads.

As for when exactly it happens, Ray realizes Emma and Norman are special to him early on, though he doesn't conceptualize that love to the full extent it would eventually become. Again borrowing from earlier posts, but:

(Chapter 181.1 | Chapter 93 | S1 Episode 6)

He loved them more than he feared the consequences of revealing what he knew to Isabella. They comforted him when he'd have nightmares that left him screaming and crying in terror, even when they couldn’t understand what was upsetting their friend so badly and he couldn’t articulate to them what was wrong.

But he's also the last to act on his feelings after years of self-loathing and his firm commitment to ensuring Emma and Norman survive as a set.

(2020 Exhibition Interview)

One of the immutable truth's of his universe is the two of them belong together, and he would never do anything to jeopardize that, even if it meant remaining silent about how he felt.

Norman feelings for Emma are evident by his eleventh birthday in the fourth story of the first light novel, "A Gift from the 39th Girl."

He admires her deeply, and she inspires him to do better and strive for the seemingly impossible.

(Chapter 14)

With Ray, Norman always had someone he could show his more prideful and impish side to.

(S1 Episode 2 | Mystic Code Book Chapter 2)

I disagree on the wording a bit here because it's not that Norman doesn't show his true nature to Emma, but that the two of them are seeing different facets of a multifaceted person. Emma sees Norman caring for and helping their siblings all the time, and he's not disingenuous in those actions, even if in his pragmatism his mind immediately jumped to just him, Emma, and Ray escaping after being confronted with the truth. Ray was someone he valued and trusted enough to show aspects of himself that he didn't share with anyone else openly at this point in his life.

But it's after two weeks of hating Ray's guts that Norman discovers the true motivation behind Ray's plan at Grace Field:

I adore the way the anime adapts his realization of this, further discussed here:

(S1 Episode 5)

Norman reaching the same conclusion is one of humbling, relief, and grief. Since Krone first arrived at the house, he suspected Ray was the traitor. He hated himself for it, but that didn’t change the conclusion he drew, and he spent two weeks stewing around in those negative, vindictive thoughts. This is the only time I believe Norman ever truly hated Ray as a person. His being aloof and withdrawn might have been annoying and frustrating when they were younger, but he still accepted Ray as he was and didn’t hate him. This development, however, was infuriating. Norman would have been willing to sacrifice Ray, like Ray tells him he should have done, if he hadn’t talked to Emma in the flashback from the manga that instead plays out chronologically here. It isn’t stated by him directly how he aspires to be like her, but it does cause him to pause, reevaluate, and take a step back from adhering to his more rigid sense of morality. And then he realizes Ray’s true motivation and is humbled even further. In the final seconds of the song, the distorted crackling cuts out, and we’re left with the last rueful notes of the string instrument as the camera zooms in on a single child’s drawing, one that we know is Eugene’s based on the chapter 31 extra of the Grace Field House art gallery… …A good use of resources to convey to the viewer the same affirmation Ray had given to Norman: whatever his machinations might entail, his motivation has always, always been his two most precious friends. There’s relief in that realization: Ray isn’t out to maliciously harm them, but there’s also grief in how Ray doesn’t see himself as worth saving. A very humbling experience when just a few hours ago Norman had been so willing to throw him away, just like Ray wanted.

This settles something in Norman—that Ray is once again firmly in the "dear friend who must be saved and protected at all costs" category of his mind, reflected in his resolute stare in these two additional frames in episode 11 of season 1:

Ray intends to die. From what he said, he's doing it so you and I don't get killed. He didn't include himself in the numbers. He's not escaping. Ray has decided to die inside this house. He's going to set himself on fire to distract Mom in order to let us run away. That's his entire plan. But I won't allow him to do that. Not ever.

But it also leads him to begin reexamining what exactly that all entails, and he has over a year to pore over those thoughts in Lambda.

By the time he razes the facility to the ground, he recognizes that he cares for Ray in the same way he cares for Emma (@vinokurinner conveys it beautifully through this comic)

(Chapter 74 | Chapter 129 | Volume 18 Inner Cover | Chapter 145 | Chapter 153 | Chapter 181.4)

Emma's cherished the boys as her best friends her whole life at Grace Field. As they're inspired by her, she in turn is inspired by them.

(Chapter 5 | Chapter 88)

But when exactly she consciously puts a name to those feelings and recognizes them in their totality, I don't have as specific of period for because I like to play around with it.

(Chapter 123)

But there's the beat of pronounced, wide-eyed clarity when Ray mentions Norman's special to both of them.

(Chapter 153)

There's her bold declaration of "I'm never letting you go!" to Norman, firm in her conviction that she'll won't let him sacrifice himself or be separated from them again.

(Chapter 161)

There's the faith that now that she has both of them at her side again, they can achieve the impossible.

(Chapter 180)

And there's the visions she has of them in her dreams after they arrive separately in the human world and she's lost her memories, because not even a god can remove the place they hold in her heart.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

have a emma ratri au in the brain rn so how do you think the escape would go without emma in it? im guessing norman would cut a lot more losses without emma there to encourage him (maybe even escape with only the older kids that can make it) and I really liked your post on how norman was originally planning to leave ray behind!

im thinking norman feels guilty and goes back at the last second to see ray with the lighter fluid but ray sets the fire anyway to make norman go without him. But norman isn't as physically able as emma so he doesn't catch the match and Isabella pulls them both out

then as norman and ray are healing from their injuries in lamba they meet emma ratri (who would do anything for her clan/family in this version) who tries to encourage them to coperate/make them test better for the tifari by making them happy?

don and gilda would meet up with sonju and muijika and be a lot more friendly to demons/knowledgeable about their society (maybe even meet up with ashye!)

thoughts?

[Mentioned post]

Without Emma there as a moral compass, Norman and Ray might convince Don and Gilda that only the four of them should escape and come back for the rest of the kids after they better assess the outside world, with Ray banking on Norman discreetly seething the whole time so he'll ditch him at the last minute, but it's also possible Don and Gilda might rub off on Norman in Emma's place that contribute to him going back to bring Ray along.

Both of the boys ending up at Lambda is very interesting because while there is the poignancy for Isabella in Ray being the only one of the trio supposedly destined to be shipped and gupna'd as normal, I think there's enough breadth to argue that if Legravalima ate her father to become queen and hid Norman away in Lambda from the demon god, she might have tried to push her luck with the promise and steal Emma and Ray away too with how prestigious the trio's reputations were among demon society.

It's also interesting to see an Emma who might feign a similar demeanor to her canon one but drops it when things aren't going her way, either impetuously out of petty anger or as part of a longer con after she discovers someone's tried to cross her, in a similar tone to this exchange:

(Chapter 87)

She likes to think she's benevolent and reasonable, but being raised as a future head of the clan, she's cunning and ruthless, and she doesn't make idle threats.

There's also the dynamics to consider of how the boys would play off her together versus how they'd do apart if they were kept isolated from each other, if they even know the other one is alive, if Emma holds that knowledge as leverage, etc.

(Chapter 172, tweaked)

And then her conflicting loyalties if she starts to grow attached to them.

don and gilda would meet up with sonju and muijika and be a lot more friendly to demons/knowledgeable about their society (maybe even meet up with ashye!)

Assuming it's just Don and Gilda that escaped and not the rest of the canon escapees, there's a variety of potential there too. Like you said, them having more time with their nomadic demon parents, maybe opting to stay with them rather than going to the bunker due to safety in numbers, making them the biggest advocates for demons to humans that puts them into conflict with the older brothers they looked up to when they eventually cross paths again.

There's also meeting an Ayshe who hasn't been dealt the tragic blow of losing her father, and while I still imagine her to be reserved, there is a bit of a lighter air about her now that her first meeting with other humans is much kinder. Her dad could also provide insight into the demon world that Mujika and Sonju couldn't, like the inner workings of farms as a substitute for the bunker's knowledge.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

About your idea of Norman keeping for months at Lambda to the memory of Isabella's last hug. I have better:

Little AU where everything is the same except that, while Isabella hugs Norman to say him goodbye…

For a second, just three little seconds, she let her mask fell and said, in a whisper, a "I'm Sorry" in his ear. Because Norman was her little boy, she has raised him for 11 years. And she knows that this Peter will send him to a slow and painful death, rather than a quick one like all her other kids. She didn't want that to happen to him. She knews he'll suffer, so much, because she heard about Lambda. Maybe norman's shippment to Lambda was planned for months (for his 12th birthday, maybe) and has just be advanced.

For a moment, just a little moment, she feels her heart cracks. So she wisphers "i'm sorry" in his ear. Peter didn't hear her, he was letting her saying goodbye, he thought she was saying "goodbye".

Then he took Norman.

For 15 months, both the hug and the words stay in his mind.

"I'm sorry"

She was really sorry?

"I"m sorry"

She had no reason to tell him that, considering that he was sent to a slow death and that she would never seen him again. She told him she was happy and then….she said she was sorry.

It makes him cry. He hates being emotional about it. Does this hug and those words were geniune? Did she was really sorry? Did it mean that she wasn't happy?

At a point, after the evasion, he asks Vincent.

"Do you think she was really sorry?"

Vincent has no answers. He didn't have someone like Isabella. He wasn't betrayed until the very last moment. He was not as close of her than Norman was of Isabella before learning the truth.

"If she wasn't sorry, why would she tell you that?"

It's all Vincent can say.

A little part of Norman is sure that she wasn't lying, that she was really sorry, thisq litrle part of him hopes so much her love was real and that she was truly sorry, but his ressentment is stronger at this point.

It's kind of hard to pinpoint exactly when Legravalima made the push for Norman to be sent off to Lambda instead of the demon god.

(Chapter 152)

The way I interpret this sequence is that she'd been eyeing him up for years, her gluttony and avarice festering, knowing that he was supposed to be served at the 2046 Tifari after he reached full Grace Field maturity.

(Chapter 7)

And then this could just be early series weirdness because Shirai wasn't 100% sure what reasoning he wanted to provide at this point, but to make up for the extremely lackluster harvest of the other Grace Field farms, in October 2045 Norman's shipment was bumped up to just a few days before the 2045 Tifari in November. Yverk says "that will certainly please The One" in response to Isabella saying the trio's shipments can occur as planned, or "whenever [the demons] like."

He could be lying to pacify the rest of the noble court at Legravalima hoarding the highest grade meat for herself, but it doesn't sound like he's aware of there being another plan to send Norman off to Lambda at this point, and it doesn't seem like Isabella is aware of any other alternative path for Norman and Ray either until she's given the letter and suitcase on the first of November.

(Chapter 20)

There could have been other Grace Field children sent to Lambda, but with how we don't see them among any of the rescued children in the paradise hideout, Adam focusing specifically on Norman's identification number, and how the narrative wants to highlight Norman is special and isolated during this time partially because of how he interprets and internalizes that perception of himself, it seems like a safe bet he was the first Grace Field child to go to Lambda in its less than fifteen years of existence.

(Chapter 72 | Chapter 73)

I have a difficult time seeing Isabella say sorry to him in this moment given how pointed her saying she's happy just a few minutes earlier is with how it's just as much a lie to herself as it is to Norman. If it isn't true, then all the cognitive dissonance she's maintained up until now was for naught, and she had to fight so, so hard to kill the hope she had at opposing the system as a little girl.

(TPN Light Novel 2: Moms’ Song of Remembrance - “The Starry Sky and Leslie’s List” Chapter 9)

Her commitment to maintaining that facade in such a tense moment at the expense of providing the son she's raised for ten years a concession of any sort of sentiment that what he's experiencing is wrong is more interesting to me in how it adds to the emotional climax of the arc.

Vincent and Norman interactions, though, my beloved,,,

It throws a wrench into the carefully cultivated persona of an ice-cold emperor he maintains (like mother, like son), but I do very much enjoy the thought of Vincent being able to provide Norman support outside of his competency in all matters related to the technical side of their plans with how similar they are and Norman losing all the older siblings he had at Grace Field.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

#this was supposed to be like.. symbolic kind of LOL idk if it came out exactly that way tho #like i wanted to portray him as himself ready to die beyond the gates #but then that door he was told to wait in opens and the light is like a depiction of a new opportunity to live #smth like that

Unexpected encounter at the face of death

[fullscoreshenanigans]

ILL BE HONEST every time u mention vowsverse I genuinely do add a few extra words into the doc and its like one scene away from being done (it has been this way for years. I am writing this one scene very hecking slowly)

Me when my nefarious scheme of praise and encouragement works >:3c

Highly recommend Sae's work for anyone that's a REN fan btw. (so what am I defending now?) is *the* quintessential NR-focused REN fic for me that I come back to again and again to sate the void left by that final two-year timeskip and help recenter myself on the trio’s dynamics and characterization.

Beautiful, concise writing containing multitudes, and the recentering of what constitutes Norman's everything with how integral family is to the trio's characters.

Though his desperation is so palpably raw and frantic in the beginning, so vicious and vengeful in his metaphors with how much he must concede in order to fulfill their goal.

And that slipping in of his more arrogant and selfish side that he camouflages in how ends justify means and the toll he unwittingly places on his family in the present.

The nods to how Ray takes after Isabella in the way he frets over and looks after his family, how he's able to do so openly now and how that mends his soul (to say nothing of giving him deep violet eyes that I am always a sucker for.)

That anguished questioning Norman mistakes as pity out of self-loathing and shame but is born out of a deep love and empathy for one of the two people Ray had been willing to sacrifice everything for.

The power in knowing they could close the physical gap between them here but are so secure in not doing so, so sure of themselves and what's between them.

And the amount of times I reference that relief line kfjhsd fucking g o d; love how you can feel that settle deep in Ray's bones after the ache of carrying so much on his shoulders alone for years and believing that after it all, he would never be worthy of that love and that it was foolish to hope for it.

Same with the final line here and how it always, always came back to Emma and Ray for Norman, before he could even consciously articulate the profundity of that connection in its entirety and the solace it blessed him with, but that he intrinsically understood.

It's the always that always get me. 🥺🤧😭 And again, the importance of family for the trio and all the other relationships they have that enrich their lives and make the one between them more fulfilling as a result.

And omfg the ending, the ending that expands upon the dream sequence that Shirai went back and added to the volume release of the chapter.

So central to their characters for me that I cite it all the time.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Norman ratri fuckery or maybe Norman in lambda scenario if im understanding this right!

For an AU with greater canon divergence, I like tinkering with the idea of Peter being more hands on in interacting with Norman to better contrast with Emma and Ray getting Lucas and Yuugo for father figures.

22194 has been a child of interest since he scored a perfect 300 on his first test at age four. Potentially even earlier than that, if, like Ray, the demons kept track of his pedigree and his mother was also a full scorer. Regardless of exactly when it started, he continues to capture the attention of researchers and the demon nobility alike, so by the time Legravalima gives approval for him to be sent to Lambda so she can avoid handing him over to the demon god, Peter was already aware of his general existence.

He's thrown for a loop when he meets him in person though. The only potential photographs he would have of Norman would be from when he was an infant at headquarters. His incredibly light/white hair on its own wouldn't have been enough to give him much pause, but now that his features have had more time to develop, Peter's a bit startled at the Ratri ones he can pick out.

(@bon-nii's comparison of James and Norman from chapters 173, 152, 126, and 154)

(Chapter 74)

There's a bit of vanity in him saying he's too young to be Norman's father (never mind he was eighteen when Norman was born), but combined with the boy's looks, the phrase sits at the back of his mind, nudging him until he can't ignore his curiosity any longer. He looks into the genealogy records at Grace Field headquarters until he can't find any recording of a sperm donor, which isn't more than a few generations back. Odd, given that Grace Field is the top premium farm, but sometimes such documentation snuck through the cracks, and it wasn't unheard of for the occasional scientist to consort with the Sister candidates prior to the refinement of artificial insemination.

It's one of Norman's blood samples that confirms someone from the family—either from the main one or the branch Andrew's from—fathered a daughter with a Sister, and that daughter went on to have a daughter who then bore a son.

Pulling this bit from an earlier post:

…I still have trouble wrapping my head around the idea of Peter knowingly and willingly [putting a Ratri child in the farm system] on the basis of viewing them as an extension of the clan rather than as individuals, so it’s almost like it’s a worse reflection on him not being able to restore the honor of this wayward branch of it by “salvaging” the traitor’s children and raising them “correctly.” He places such great value in being a Ratri and displays such disdain when speaking of the cattle children as food, it’s hard to see him sullying the line in any way by condemning a member to the fate of the latter as opposed to just outright killing them, even if said member was an infant. That’s still Ratri blood—his blood—that would be going into the farm system, and he would never let anyone as lowly as food have any sort of claim to such a noble and prestigious status. […] However, I’m more inclined to entertain the idea of another family member taking advantage of their position as a Ratri to have a dalliance with a Sister candidate, as @officersnickers brings up in this post. It’s not something Peter would ever approve of, but what’s done is done, and importantly there was no explicit denouncement of the clan in this act, which I feel he would take personal offense to. There’s nothing he can do to save these children—the one-drop rule thoroughly entrenched in his mind, and their blood is thoroughly tainted—but maybe their Ratri lineage will win out and they’ll be able to rise above their pitiful status, so he does keep tabs on both as he approves of them being sent on their separate ways in the system.

This is where one has to make the concession that Peter cares more about having an heir and/or believing a child's Ratri heritage trumps their fate of being born into the farm system. Shirai never confirms if he has a partner, but regardless, no mention is made of biological children of his own or if he knows of any potential ones on the way.

And maybe that's getting to him as the thirty-sixth head of the Ratri clan who's going to turn thirty next year, along with this boy looking so much like James. He knew his brother had no children, and despite his traitorous ways knew he'd never father one with a Sister for a variety of reasons. Yet here is this distant relative whose genes were still so prominent even after being diluted with multiple generations of cattle blood (him being vain enough to include Norman's intelligence as being another gift of Ratri inheritance). He decides to take it as a sign and as a duty to reclaim and "salvage" this wayward line of the clan.

Norman knows something's off when he doesn't receive all of the drugs he normally does for the day. Everything else proceeds as routine until dinner, when he's escorted not by scientists or demons, but men dressed in suits to an area of Lambda he's never been to before. They arrive in a lavishly decorated room with Peter seated at a relatively small but well-furnished dinner table. Norman's never seen so much food meant for one person, but as Peter invites him to have a seat, he realizes it's meant for two people.

There's some small talk regarding the spread, Peter's recommendations and whether Norman's favorite dish is there. By sheer coincidence there is some chickpeas and meat stew present, and while Norman is still wary of the entire situation, he doesn't refuse the bowl placed in front of him by the butler. It's the most delicious thing he's ever tasted. Peter makes sure to clarify one of his personal chefs made it.

This segues into a brief discussion about the daily tests Norman's been taking at Lambda. He confirms they're harder than the tests at Grace Field, but he enjoys the challenge, the tiniest bit of smug pride seeping in in the event Peter had any ego tied up in his being bested by one of these tests. The proud tone in the response throws him off before his brain registers the words "as to be expected of a Ratri." Peter then apologizes at the small but still noticeable change in his expression, lamenting how he probably should have started out with that to ease any of Norman's worries.

He goes on to explain how he discovered this, interpreting Norman's silence as positive before moving on to provide a brief overview of how the Ratri clan came to be the mediators between two worlds and then explaining how his life will change now that he'll be staying in the Ratri visitors' quarters for the remainder of his time at Lambda. The process to remove his tattoo and brand will begin the following day, and he'll be weened off the remaining drugs he's been given.

Norman knows it's beyond his consideration, but he still can't believe the gall of this man.

As for what [being a Ratri] would mean to Norman, he’s never indicated any sense of loss related to not knowing members of his immediate birth family or fretting over his origins, but for him to be related to the clan that’s perpetuated this system of abuse over a millennia and with how his rigid sense of morality lent itself to the idea of exterminating every single demon, if he was in a particularly negative thought spiral, it might eat at him on some bad days.

Where Peter expected rapturous or reverential awe at being a long-lost member of the clan, he felt sick. He never knew his birth mother or other forebearers, but imagining everything those women had to endure after seeing what it turned Isabella into, all being said so casually without a hint of guilt over the horrors his clan perpetuated like he's discussing the pedigree of a thoroughbred animal instead of a human being, it's nauseating.

And his neck tattoo…the Lambda brand he wouldn't give a second thought to losing, but the tattoo has this paradoxical sense of kinship attached to it that I briefly go over in this post regarding the children still keeping their tattoos years after being in the human world. Even with it being a horrible symbol of their dehumanization under this system, it's been a familiar sight to him since his earliest memories. It's one of the physical markers of his connection with Emma, Ray, and the rest of his family, and this man will be flippantly erasing that. How easy it is for him having never bore the grief that comes with it.

This is already long but a tangentially related conversation to this eventually comes up with Peter asking about Emma and Ray. On the surface it's to connect with Norman and learn more about his life at Grace Field, but the ulterior motive is to see if there's any information he can glean about these kids to find and capture them quicker. Norman will give it to him for having the tact not to slip and refer to them by their numbers like he's sure he wants to do, but he's still incensed at their names in his mouth. There's also the chance that Peter might reveal a crumb of information himself about their status (because Norman can't see why he would be asking unless he had something to gain from it, so that has to mean their escape was a success and they were all alive. The alternative would kill him), so he entertains the conversation. He tries not to give any tells, but when he talks about them his thumb might have grazed the spot where his number used to be before covering it up with a cough.

Norman's never taken in by Peter's seemingly genial demeanor, but it's odd how personal and almost…amiable the man can be with him. Still, the love he's offering is contingent on Norman's continued assistance at Lambda (Peter sees it as their shared duty to solve the conundrum of faster high quality meat production) and at least the appearance of respect toward the clan. It's not unconditional like Lucas' and Yuugo's.

The clearest hint of this might be Peter mentioning how much Norman resembles James one night at dinner, building his brother up with the same admiration he displays in chapter 173 before lamenting his fall from grace, stressing the sacrifice he had to make by murdering him but still ultimately going through with it because the clan and balance between two worlds takes precedence above all else.

Alternatively, another scenario that's easier to work into canon is the Ratri clan realizing Norman's lineage when the cattle children arrive in the human world, also prompted by the databases at Grace Field sparking further investigation with a DNA test. Once it's confirmed, they keep pestering Norman about leaning into this kinship and actively working for them, along with having his family and friends seemingly on good terms with the clan for some PR optics. Norman finds the idea insulting and revolting, but he can't ignore the benefits that would come with it.

Like some other fans, I greatly dislike Norman becoming a CEO during the final major timeskip, as well as Lambda sickness being conveniently treated with no chronic aftereffects and absolutely no issues with them integrating into human world and being welcomed with open arms by everyone. I understand Shirai wanted to wrap up the series on his own terms after years of dealing with the strain that is weekly manga publishing, and he needed an explanation for how the kids could easily fund their expeditions to search for Emma, but oof, do I hate it lol. All of these remain a concern for the cattle children here, and while the Ratri clan wouldn't outright abandon them if he refused, Norman wouldn't put it past them to drag their feet on certain matters. Their finances and prestige shield them from any misguided resentment some people may hold for them. Their connections are a boon for securing future educations and careers. And god would it expedite the search for Emma.

I like to imagine a late night benefit-cost analysis between Norman, Ray, Don, and Gilda taking place at some point after they've settled in enough. The other three reaffirm that if Norman felt it was going to kill his soul to work for the Ratris, his friends and family would stand by his refusal, but they would be remiss not to acknowledge the pragmatism in further solidifying the relationship (particularly poignant coming from Ray, though not completely analogous situations). The conversation drifts off for a bit before Norman, looking exhausted across the table they're seated at with his hands on his knees, states, "I want her back with us."

Working with the clan would be odd in so many ways with how they would laud his status as a cattle child and how he was taking the lead on amending relations between the Ratri and the cattle children while never wanting to fully interrogate what that meant. There's a hierarchy with Norman at the top and the mass production farm children at the bottom in many of their minds. At one point in private after a publicity event someone says offhand, "you can cover that up now, you know," referring to his ID. Even in the winter he tries to make a point not to wear scarves or turtlenecks when he knows he's going to be around them.

I hate the idea of there being one good and upstanding Ratri member that befriends him just because it's too convenient, and if we're being real Norman would never let down his walls enough and let them into his personal world after everything he's been through, but I do like the thought of him maybe getting along with a few scattered members, probably younger, who recognize the terrible fate that befell the children from another world and are genuinely amiable with him without beholding him to form a meaningful friendship with them. A small attempt at a personal level of atonement that he can recognize and appreciate while still maintaining that mental distance. I also think he'd appreciate the very youngest children of the family who could give him insight into what the adults might really think of him and his friends with their uncensored commentary lol.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

(x)

You can pry the belief of mine that Norman is a Ratri off my cold, dead hands

i know the manga ended but I’ve been with this hope for long enough

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Throwing @hylialeia​’s tags on here too because 👌👌

“I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t change anything. That’s why… at least I wanted to keep living. As a human they couldn’t eat!!”

“Nevertheless… I can still live. And as long as I’m alive, I might be able to see them again.”

~~~

In my opinion, we’re really sleeping on all the parallels between Isabella and Norman, being forced to live in a facility that not only took away their freedom, but also their bodily autonomy. At the tender age at twelve, both are branded and cut open, under the watchful eyes of those who seek to devour them ultimately, in one way or another. Also, mother and son are both so full of spite and desperation to live on, althought they have been told there would be no way out of their miserable life, and still, they continued to keep on fighting and rattling their chains till they finally broke free.

Drawing this last month I was so proud of the outcome, but now… hnngh. Norman’s facial structure look so weird, although I tried to imitate the manga’s style, but yeah… The mirror on the left side was also a nightmare, but I’m still proud of how unnecessarily luxurious it looks like.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

I'd argue the first gif along with sequences like these showcase him thinking and fretting over Ray just as frequently. There's vitriol thrown into the mix because of how hurt he was by Ray's perceived betrayal, but if anything the ferocity behind those sentiments are what propel him to so swiftly and strongly swing the pendulum back to viewing Ray as a dear friend who must be protected and deserves to be saved at all costs.

This in turn influences Ray to see Norman atop the wall during the escape as the final marker of him genuinely internalizing one of the deepest desires in his heart that he had locked away for so long, which I personally put on the same level as Emma having a vision of Norman after Leuvis stabs her in chapter 93 and find interesting what leads one to be played up over the other. I'd also say the focus on Norman voicing how much he wants to see Emma again too, though to be fair the anime lends itself to this as well.

But yes, the way he consistently voices wanting to see the both of them along with the rest of his family again and the facsimiles he'd conjure of them to keep him going 🖤🤍🧡 (already posted these fic excerpts on another post but they're just as applicable here and they own my ass for how foundational they were in my interpretation of the series with their poignant portrayal of the dynamic between the trio so yolo)

(smoke and mirrors by @salsae)

(Between Your Fingers, Between the Lines by honeynpeaches)

And even after they reunite, his thoughts repeatedly return to the both of them as he ruminates on what he plans to do.

(Chapter 129 | Chapter 145)

While desperately wanting to reach out to both of them the entire time for help.

(Volume 18 Cover and Inner Cover | Chapter 154)

Ray TPN

KLJDFKLVDK HIM THOUGH??

(S1 Episode 6 | Chapter 181.1 | Chapter 93 | Chapter 119 | banana_slug_army's A Bizarre Proposal | 2020 Exhibition Interview)

[fullscoreshenanigans]

#I so need Norman boiling with rage in Lambda #because he's sure he could pick open the lock on his door #but can't due to the cameras #so he's trying to figure out how to kill himself with his hair pin in a very desperate moment #preferring to die by his own hands than by Lambda and the demons (via @officersnickers)

I can't see them letting him have a hair pin if he came to Lambda with just the clothes on his back and they're only giving him plastic utensils to use for his meals on top of everything else

(Chapter 74)

It also doesn't look like he has any other writing utensils besides the quill pen he probably uses to write his correspondence with Vincent, so he can't discreetly dismantle that in his bathroom to use either.

(Chapter 104 & Chapter 105 Bonus Scenes)

But there is enough of a gap in security where he's able to pass along and receive those messages at all, potentially thanks to knowing Smee and other Minerva supporters are around on those days who will look the other way and distract the demons and other scientists who might be around, so it's possible he managed to snag something else from the room to use instead.

Back on the angsty side of things, you have to wonder on the days where everything felt so overwhelming, yet he still wanted to hold onto his pride by not giving them the satisfaction of seeing him breakdown or worry them enough to prompt them to send guards in, whether he'd cover himself with a bed sheet and silently cry himself to sleep, or if he'd go into his bathroom and turn the faucet on so they wouldn't hear his sobs

(S2 Episode 8 | Chapter 74)

because hopefully they'd at least afford him enough privacy for that.

headcannon that norman picked up lock picking to help emma in her super secret stealth missions into the infirmary especially when isabella insists people need peace and quiet

(or when ray was having nightmares and needed someone there for him even when he didn’t want to admit it)

i think it’s cannon that he knows cuz he takes apart machines/clocks with ray but that’s not enough angst for me(definitely using this in a fic soon)

*taps microphone and holds it up to you* thoughts?

Yeah you got it; the mystic code book mentions Norman and Ray learned it from taking apart machines together, while Don learned pickpocketing because he read about it in a book and thought it sounded cool.

(Mystic Code Book Chapter 1 Q&A; also mentioned in a questionnaire that I talk about here)

The way it's framed in chapter 1 makes it sound like it's a rare occurrence, or at the very least the boys rarely lockpicked in Emma's presence.

But for fanfic purposes, I think people would be open to him using his skills for covert stealth missions to lift the spirits of sick orphans, and there's nothing preventing him from learning it for multiple purposes.

I'm a bit confused why he would need to do that so he and Emma could sneak into Ray's bed and cuddle him unless Ray is sick in the infirmary and needs the support, though, since there are eight other children in Ray's shared bedroom who need to be able to come and go to use the restroom or get a glass of water. We also see Gilda, who as far as we know isn't able to pick locks pre-escape, going out to meet with Krone after lights out unhindered.

Krone's room has a lock on it since Isabella locks Ray in there, so while I can see all the doors in the house potentially having locks on them for whatever emergency situation might arise, the children's bedrooms would almost always be open otherwise.

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Bonus Norman thinking of Emma and Ray while in Lambda:

It’s not culminating in a singular, pivotal moment for him while he’s physically or emotionally in perilous straits, but they are a regular thought he returns to in his mind to get him through the monotony and torture he endures over the course of his long stay there.

I’m never going to be over Ray and Emma both having visions of Norman when they both desperately needed the comfort of his presence.

I could have gone with manga panels for both of these for uniformity, but yet again CloverWorks takes advantage of the medium shift to add such beautiful nuance to (hallucination!)Norman and Ray’s exchange in the S1 finale—Norman speaking to Ray so, so gently in both the English and Japanese dubs with his final remark featured here, Ray being so overwhelmed by everything that’s happened in the past hour already and now topped with seeing one of the two people who was most important to him reappear, after he thought he’d never see him again, that he nearly cries at his words. I can’t express how much I adore the way they handled this scene.

By turning out to be a hallucination/dream as opposed to a ghost, we’re shown Norman’s departed spirit isn’t actually guiding them as its own independent entity with an agenda in another incorporeal form, but instead how they both internalized his character and personality and, most importantly, how they wished to see him again that manifested his appearance (see this post for further differences between their perspectives of him on this particular night).

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