#a parallel to Bran and Hodor etc etc

[marwyn]

Let it be known that I think a likely death for Victarion is Euron skinchanging him and making him blow the Dragonbinder

[jackoshadows]

GRRM has all the set up for an interesting magic system in A Song of Ice and Fire and as a fan of high fantasy, I find it unfortunate that he finds it so hard to develop this part of his story in more detail.

Yes, I generally get in a groove on a particular character and write  several chapters or chunks of chapters at once, before hitting a wall.  When I do hit a wall, I switch to another character. Some characters are  easier to write and some harder, however. Dany and Bran have always  been toughest, maybe because they are heaviest on the magical  elements... also, Bran is the youngest of POV kids, and very restricted  as well because of his legs. At the other end of the spectrum, the  Tyrion chapters often seem to write themselves. The same was true for  Ned.

GRRM SSM, July 14, 1999

The concept of warging and skin changing for example is fascinating - it’s been used in other fantasy, but I like GRRM’s take on it. Like how Jon and Arya are literally in contact with each other through their wolf dreams and yet they are unaware of it. Arya wargs Nymeria and can see through her, same with Jon, and then Ghost and Nymeria can see what the other is doing. So if Jon and Arya took it one step further, they could probably communicate with each other.

The part where Jon Snow as a direwolf interacts with Bran Stark as a weirwood tree is the type of magic that would be so fascinating to explore in more detail and used to move the plot forward. Same with the much awaited Hodor origin story involving time travel that GRRM is again yet to write. Warging/Skin changing/Greenseers/3ER etc. - lacks details and story, IMO. Of the big 5 characters, Bran has the least amount of POV chapters.

What we have for warging in ASoIaF, for example, is a sharp contrast to Robert Jordan’s Tel'aran'rhiod or world of dreams in Wheel of Time. Jordan hints at this parallel world with Perrin in book one and builds it up and then we see another aspect of it with the Wise Ones and Egwene. Both Egwene and Perrin then use it in different ways with how the wolf dreams connects to the World of Dreams. All the well defined rules of the dream world the author sets up to make it dangerous, where one slip and it’s over. How the characters cleverly use those rules in fights based on expertise.

We have Egwene learning and simply being the best and her and Nynaeve taking down the forsaken and Black Ajah. Entire subplots and fights taking place in this world with Perrin and the slayer. The Dreamspike complicating matters. Perrin and Egwene trying to out-compete each other. Battles and ambushes happening there.

Jordan had so many systems and worlds in his books - the portal stones, stasis boxes etc. for ex. - and I think that his background as a physicist helped him in creating this imaginary world. Like in how Rand explains Traveling and Gateways to Egwene as a bending of space and time with time dilation. Which connects to the Theory of Relativity.

Developing those fantastical aspects is what GRRM now needs to do with Bran Stark and Bloodraven and the mysterious Others advancing on humanity. I think this is where GRRM is headed to with respect to the overarching story, but is struggling to write. I suspect that’s part of the reason why the books are taking longer to write as the fantasy component increases.

I am pretty confident that Amazon’s Wheel of Time series is going to premiere before GRRM completes The Winds of Winter. And Perrin Aybara is going to have wolf dreams and there are going to be comparisons to Bran Stark. However, Perrin is a superior version to any of the wargs in ASoIaF because the author has actually developed the magic and world that Perrin plays in.

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

Burn them all

I apologize if any of the following spec is either obvious or stupid!! I don’t follow GoT meta/spec and I have basically been a very casual watcher until super recently.

With only two episodes still to go, I have realized that the final arc of the show is a redux of Robert’s Rebellion and the assassination of the Mad King - with two figures in the narrative spot of the Mad King, Daenerys and Cersei.

In 8x04 we are reminded of Robert multiple times - Daenerys mentions how he took the throne away from her family to Gendry, and then Tyrion and Varys, who now know the truth about Lyanna and Rhaegar, comment on the futility of Robert’s Rebellion, whom Robert started because of Lyanna being “kidnapped” when in fact that didn’t happen.

And, of course, the story brings Daenerys to a point where she has a choice to make: whether to burn King’s Landing.

Daenerys has a difficult legacy that she needs to dispel if she wants people to accept her as queen of Westeros. The memory of her father, the Mad King, is still alive and she needs to prove that she is not like her father.

But, of course, the ultimate “madness” that drove Jaime Lannister to kill him was that he ordered to have the entirety of King’s Landing burned. In fact, the Mad King was to ignite Wildfire placed all over King’s Landing to burn the city down when it became clear he had lost.

Basically, Daenerys is going to face the ultimate test to prove that she is not just another mad Targaryen, by choosing not to burn hundreds of thousands of innocents.

I expect that she is going to spiral into her own “madness”, hatred and revenge and desire for power, for a bit more, but eventually she’ll see the light and prove - to herself and to everyone else - that she is indeed different.

But, on the other side, there is Cersei, that at this point has also spiraled into madness. She already has burned a bunch of people in King’s Landing by using Wildfire, and she could potentially blow the city up with it, just like the Mad King wanted to do before Jaime stopped him.

So here’s my speculation. Warning, I never get these things right.

- it seems obvious that Jaime will find himself in a situation with similarities of sorts from the one he went through with the Mad King. While it makes more sense for him to be involved with the Cersei-as-the-Mad-King-2.0 side of the story, I wonder whether it’d possible that he’ll be involved in the Dany-as-the-Mad-King-2.0 side of the story. Jaime once tried to kill Dany to stop the war, but was prevented in doing that by Drogon. Now, Jaime basically killed the “last dragon” when he killed the last Targaryen king on the Iron Throne, and I wonder if that scene was foreshadowing for him to kill the literal “last dragon”, to prevent Drogon to burn the city. Of course, it could be someone else. But I’m intrigued by the scene where he attempts to kill Dany and Drogon gets in front of him as foreshadowing for him killing the dragon to protect the city. I’m counting this as a wild idea, not really speculation, but why not write it down...

- on the other hand, it is possible that the truth about why Jaime killed the Mad King will come up (only Brienne knows about it, correct?), possibly as a warning to Daenerys that burning King’s Landing is a very Mad King kind of thing to do, which is not the brand of sovereign she wants to be. And now another piece of speculation: this might be where Bran fits in this arc. We know that Bran experienced a flashback to the Mad King yelling “burn them all”, and the scene seemed to suggest that his madness could be in fact related to Bran’s interference as the three-eyed-raven and be a projection of the need to burn the dead, not the living. People have wondered what would Bran’s role in the story be now that the Night King is dead, and I’m wondering whether that scene where he sees the Mad King might come up as relevant now, possibly with some reveal about the guy and/or Jaime, possibly revealing something about his cryptic dialogue with him.

- Now, the “Rebellion” part of the parallel. If Cersei and Dany are both, in different ways (and, likely, final results), the Mad King, who are Robert and Ned? Now, my speculation here goes to the Stark sisters (one’s already been aligned with the Baratheon house, the other is the current Stark-in-charge-of-Winterfell). Now hear my idea out: Sansa goes to King’s Landing to make negotiations with Cersei (don’t get me wrong, I know Sansa wants Cersei dead too, but she looks at the big picture and what she can get out of the situation first: if Dany and Cersei fight, the winner wins all - Sansa cannot let that happen). At this point, we might get a situation where Dany wants to attack the city, and Jon needs to choose whether to obey to her, or not - because his sister(s) is/are in the city (Arya’s going there too but it might be a secret). Jon at some point will need to make a major choice (what to do with Jaime, what to do with the secret of his parentage etc, imo, foreshadowing for a big life-or-death choice he needs to make) and I like the idea of him having to pick between Dany and Sansa in the most dramatic way possible.

Of course, don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting a precise correspondence between key players during Robert’s Rebellion and key players now, especially considering that there are two Mad King 2.0s, one another Targaryen like him but equipped with a dragon, the other not a Targaryen but equipped with his Wildfire. Which leads us to the next point--

- Cersei. Remember how when Stannis attacked King’s Landing she was ready to kill Tommen and herself rather than be captured and worse? It would make sense for her to kill herself and her baby once she has no hope to win. But now she has the Wildfire at her own disposal just the Mad King, and it would make sense for her to want to bring literally everyone else with her, not so unlike the Night King who wanted all life to die. Now, there’s two episodes to go and it seems like very little time so I’m tempted to list “Cersei, realizing she’s losing, blows the entire place up so she dies bringing all his enemies with her. Gendry becomes king of the seven kingdoms because there’s literally no one else left to be king of anything. ser Davos somehow survives again to his great annoyance” as a possibility. In fact, it is a possibility. But it’s probably more likely that she’ll be stopped before she is able to enact the plan, just like the Mad King. Now, it’s possible that she’s killed by Jaime or someone else and her plan dies with her. But I’m also intrigued by Tyrion’s speech to Qyburn in 8x04, where Tyrion attempts to appeal to Qyburn’s common sense and he tells him that he doesn’t want the city to burn and hear people burning alive, and asks Qyburn to help him save the city and avoid carnage. Of course in 8x04 that falls flat and Tyrion goes to address Cersei personally, but maybe it’s foreshadowing for Qyburn eventually intervening to avoid the whole city to burn.

- On the other hand I really, really want a confrontation between Sansa and Cersei to happen (curiously, Sansa was there with her during the battle of the Blackwater so there might be a parallel there - c’mon the Wildfire will come up, it’s a song of ice and fire and the battle is at King’s Landing...). In the latest episode, Sansa reminded the Hound that she is not a “Little Bird” anymore. Back then, Cersei called her Little Dove. Time for her to prove to Cersei she’s not like that anymore. And that she learned from Cersei.

- I mentioned Bran before - if I’m not mistaken he had a vision of the future with dragons and Wildfire back in that intense episode when the previous Three-Eyed-Raven, Hodor, Summer etc died, right? It’s almost like there’s going to be a battle now with a dragon and a city packed with Wildfire right now... Oh, look. Some Wildfire is going to go off. And again, Bran and his powers are going to have some kind of significance, because the foreshadowing exists.

Okay, I think that if I kept musing about this stuff I could go on forever and this post is already long enough, so I’ll just add a couple short points:

- If indeed the circumstances of the Mad King’s assassination become relevant, I’m expecting Brienne and/or him to have some kind of dramatic moment when the conversation they had about it is recalled, and how back then his motivation wasn’t for Cersei, but the people.

- I swear if Jon also dies in the South and never reunites with Tormund, Sam, Ghost & co, I’m gonna personally murder the person responsible for it. *very awkward moment where everyone really digests the realization that the chances for Jon to come back to the North are... thin*

- I’m going to enjoy Euron’s death no matter who kills him.

Let me know your thoughts!!

@bluestar86 @tinkdw @idontdo-marigolds @daughter-of-the-rain-and-snow​

[bulletandsophia]

Some more thoughts, meta, and a little bit of criticism after watching the leaked GoT episode 6. Spoilers again under the cut.

First of all, I love it simply because the North finally takes the limelight. While it’s finally the fruition of (in my opinion) the not-so-thought-out wight hunt, episode 6 brought the intrigue GoT is just known for since it opened up four plot lines I’m sure we should watch out in the next episode and in the next season:

1. Issue on succession/children

2. Sansa and Arya playing games possibly on each other.

3. Jon and D*ny’s relationship

4. Honor/heroism

Children and succession have been brought up one too many times this episode. First was during Tyrion and D*ny’s conversation about “making sure the wheel stays broken”, second was during Jorah and Jon’s scene of passing on Longclaw’s to Jon’s children, third was Tormund dreaming of having kids with Brienne and in which he believes, could take on the world; and lastly, during Jon and D*ny’s scene on the boat where she said her dragons are the only children she’ll ever have.

Note that D*ny and Jon are involved in this flow of thought and I can see why most are predicting a Targbaby coming our way next season after the boatbang. That’s a possibility at this point. Not to mention, as we’ve found out previously, Cersei’s pregnant too and the seemingly strong affinity of Gendry as Robert’s son most likely assumes that he’d like to continue or at least uphold the Baratheon legacy too.

So at this point in time, all Houses are definitely thinking of heirs or continuity, what with the death of House Martell and House Tyrell.

But curiously though, this is happening for all except for one: House Stark.

Since Bran has outright declined the title of Lord of Winterfell, this affirms Sansa’s position as Lady of Winterfell. And if we follow this certain plot flow for the Great Houses, how then can Sansa, a female leader and would likely take her future’s husband name once she marries (i.e. Lady Lannister, Lady Bolton), could continue on the legacy? With Rickon and Uncle Benjen dead, technically, there’s no other man that carries the Stark name. So for House Stark to continue, we all know of these three possible routes: either she makes her future husband take her name, she legitimizes Jon (still unsure if Robb’s will will make an appearance again), or do both. Any which way, House Stark gets to have a move on.

Importantly, this “succession” thought flow as it opens the Targbaby possibility and the death of the Stark name, is another heavy factor Jon has to face in the future and this I believe so fully. As the audience, we know he is both Stark and Targaryen. But until he finds out about this, Jon is still in the safety of being a bastard (Snow). And with his kingship as something he does not want in the first place, succession is basically not his priority for as I see it, he uses his power for the purpose of defeating the WW. So it would be very interesting to see how this would play out for him once the truth is finally revealed. Because more than the crown, this is Jon choosing his identity. And if the revelation of R+L=J next season prevails, then let’s not forget too of how then would D feel about it? Would we see Targbowl? Would D make Jon her heir instead? What about the North? Would Jon leave Winterfell to rule Westeros with D? Would Jon return to Sansa carrying his Targbaby the same way Ned carried him back for Cat to see?

With these loopholes consistently presenting themselves and all the more while J and D get together, I am pretty sure it’s not going to be pretty smooth sailing for them. 

Going into this episode, I also already knew about the heartaches of some of my fellow Jonsa shippers.There were indeed tender J/D moments and D has finally seen Jon’s wounds to prove Davos’ “stab to the heart” speech. But I’m still sticking to my previous meta that while J/D is happening, it is happening based on the superficial, soap opera-ish notions and tones. These are two people situated in a life-and-death, fantastical scenario that leaves their emotions running high. Again, desperation can make or break a man. 

There was an attempt too in the boat scene to create angst as D pulls her hand away from Jon’s hold. This denial has done its work because interestingly, Tyrion has pointed out this attraction between the two earlier in the episode as D*ny complained about the “hero-tendencies” of people like Drogo, Jorah, Daario and “this Jon Snow” and in which Tyrion emphasized: “All these men has fallen in love with you.” D denies and excludes Jon in that list but Tyrion ignores this. So almost into a confirmation, J/D is happening. But again like I said before, not without the bitterness. As I see here, D is finally (or seemingly) humbled by Jon and of the truth he has been saying all along. Probably, this is her changing her demeanor to fall into Jon’s principles as her attraction to him is far more evident than his. I also would not deny Jon that moment of tenderness because finally, he succeeded in catching a wight and convincing D. He also empathizes with the death of her dragon (another reason for D’s vulnerability on this scene) and into which he blames himself because of said (idiotic) wight-hunt. But on this scene, what truly was the most surprising part is Jon giving away the North (”I’d bend the knee but…”–gesturing to his bedridden form) not when D has first agreed to help him. This and just after we saw him deliberately said in the previous episode, “I am King.”

So is Jon doing a Robb? Helplessly and haplessly falling in love with D? Is Jon not caring about honor anymore, especially after Tormund reiterates the number of people that died because of Mance’s pride, almost echoing Tyrion’s first pleas to Jon to bend the knee at Dragonstone? Is this Jon’s big gesture and character shift? Another great point to make here, for the sake of the undercover Jon theory, is that during LF and Sansa’s conversation in this episode, she mentioned about not having any contact with Jon for weeks. With how fast Gendry and Davos were able to send that raven to Dragonstone, curious that they never send word to the North, Jon’s very own kingdom. 

So, I believe it is safe to assume no one in Winterfell knows what he is up to. They truly are waiting, just like Ghost. And the big question now is, why should it be so?

But going outside the formalistic view here, is this simply the writers’ ploy to finally get this J/D plot running to finally make way for something bigger and unpredictable in the next season? Targbowl, Starkcest? It pretty much makes a more compelling storyline compared to this CGI-filled, action-packed, and quite stagnantly plotted season 7. Remember, this is GoT. They time and again flip, break, and destroy plots so cookie-cut and so blatantly displayed. At this point in the story, J/D is the one blatantly displayed. And with this evident (and quite forced) “romance”, it’s very easy to forget the previous episodes where it says to us otherwise (angry Jon, cloakcest, unnecessary hand-holding, multiple parallels, Sansa giving Jon purpose after his resurrection!, “The North is Yours.”, “Jon is king.”, etc.) All very subtle, all ingeniously scattered since season 6. 

Again, I’ll stick with my meta that J/D is the Rhaegar and Lyanna to Jon and Sansa’s Ned and Cat. J/D is the fulfillment of Jon’s prophecy while Jonsa is the embodiment of Jon’s dreams–both of which are seemingly sailing at the same time.

Also, more than anything else, it’s Sansa and Arya’s plot lines back in Winterfell that worries me the most. Both are very much unpredictable with where they want to go. Arya, with all the strength and bravery that she has, still carries with her the issues of past conflicts and mistrusts. Her anger is deeply rooted in Season 1 conflicts that triggers Sansa to also go back to her Season 1 insecurities. I’ve already read some criticisms here and I can see where the arguments and the slight anger is coming from. While this Starkbowl makes a painful scenario, this ties up the loose ends of their relationship during the time they parted. Sansa puts it nicely, “I don’t know her [anymore].” the same way Arya does not know Sansa any longer. Whether the sisters will work together or against each other, is something we have to see in the next episode. I only wish BRAN gets to be involved in this too. But keeping my fingers crossed that Sansa’s Ned speech is her and Arya fighting together, as a pack. 

~~One episode left guys and GoT is running this in full steam. Some of the showrunners’ decisions are definitely questionable for I believe Ned, Robb, Cat, Oberyn, and Hodor did not die for some piece of sub-par writing–and only to benefit Jon and D’s narrative. While I believe they will have that final battle, I surely hope the device to make that happen is not at the expense and deterioration of the other great, great characters already overshadowed by these prophetical Targs. I feel so sad by the way about how Tyrion is basically just on the sidelines now. With the rushed pacing of season 7, I can’t help but feel that this season is only the filler season to establish the Targ conflict and then for a much more intense season 8, where subplots and characters can finally come together, and where loyalties and drastic decisions has to be fulfilled. 

I’m keeping my faith that GoT won’t (continue) to lose its genius after this season. And Jonsa is endgame. :)

[poorquentyn]

Could u possibly link to an explanation of your eldritch apocalypse ? also ik you'd just be speculating but who/what do u think will defeat Euron ? ...Dany ? Sam ... ? Bran... ?

The theory’s evolved over time, which you can see in the link above; it started here, though. As for Euron’s fate: as both Margaery and the Reader tell us, he’s already made committed enemies of Willas and Garlan Tyrell, and given that we have to meet the former and (see Highgarden) at some point and that GRRM has said he has big plans for both brothers, I think they’ll lead the resistance to him on the ground.  After Euron’s “black and bloody tide” hits Oldtown, Highgarden has to respond in force, and we’ve got our Reach native Sam to serve as a POV, one who can tell the Tyrells the stakes of what’s happening given what he’s seen beyond the Wall. 

Meanwhile, it seems likely that there’s going to be an anti-Euron uprising of some kind on the Iron Islands while he’s busy in the Reach. Damphair’s not around to lead his promised revolt, which will probably delay it, as will the lack of POVs there for the moment…but when Theon and/or Asha return, they’ll undoubtedly rally the Reader, Dagmer Cleftjaw, the drowned men, etc. against Erik Ironmaker. 

As for taking down the Crow’s Eye himself and reckoning with the metaphysical consequences of his actions, however, yeah, I think that’s on Dany and Bran. As I’ve said a couple times before, Euron is a nightmarish mirror of both of them, an enemy designed to operate on their level and bring their arcs to a head. 

RE Dany, Euron is closer to the true spirit of the Valyrian dragonlords than she is. His apocalypse is rooted in Valyria pre- and post-Doom: the armor, the chattel slavery, and the desire to bend metaphysics to his will. After all, according to Dany herself, the Valyrians used “sorcerous horns” to bind dragons to their will. He’s linked to her through the shade of the evening, through his plans for her and her dragons, through his presence in her dreams:

Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her…but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.

And no matter what Dragonbinder does, Dany will be moved in some way to respond to the attempt, and Euron will make his pitch. Given the turn regarding “fire and blood” Dany took upon her return to the Dothraki Sea, I think she’ll be tempted, but ultimately reject and burn Euron, marking her turn against the Others he unleashed with the Horn of Winter and marking her break with the worst aspects of her heritage.  

RE Bran, Euron is Bloodraven’s bad seed, the Boy Who Lived Flew…but then chose the Others over humanity. By learning how to save the world and then doing it, Bran will make the opposite choice, because it’s not your abilities but your choices, Harry, etc. Bran loves his family and wants desperately to reunite with them; Euron preys on his family, and they hate and fear him. But as with Dany, Euron is a cautionary tale for Bran, a warning of where he might go if he indulges the worst aspects of his power. Personally, from how Robin is described, I think he was Euron’s Hodor. Worth noting that there are many parallels between Euron and Varamyr, and that while Varamyr escapes his human body’s death, he then gets his ass kicked in a warg-duel with Bran; might be foreshadowing, a minor boss testing your skills before the endgame one. 

[bearbearlook]

Rey/o and Jaime x Brienne

Anti-rey/o rant. Don't click in and say I invaded your tag or bullied you or whatever your mind may conjure up. 

So I saw this post about how Rey/o has parallels with Jaime x Brienne. I was utterly shocked at how the post was just listing what happened to Jaime x Brienne and then adding wishful hopes for a similar scenario to happen to Rey/o. As an ardent JB shipper, I am shocked by how someone can possibly draw out a conclusion that the two ships have parallels. Well the only things I find in common are the initial hate stage. Jaime x Brienne are a ship built on mutual respect and trust. And Rey/o? There's no evidence of that. The pivotal moment for Jaime x Brienne was when Jaime saved Brienne from rape and sacrificed his hand. He also told her the story behind the kingslaying. He trusts Brienne so much that he told her something that he didn't even tell Cersei "ThE LuV oF hIS LiFe". So Kylo, who tried to mind-rape Rey, can totally parallel Jaime, who saved Brienne from rape amirite??? /s Don't even argue with me on how that was not mind rape. If you look at another ASOIAF reference, Bran warging into Hodor was a sort of mind rape as well, (not that he was doing it intentionally, unlike Kylo Ren, bless Bran), because it removes Hodor’s control of his own body, causes pain, etc. Hodor tried to fight back. See: http://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/18091554574/one-does-not-simply-warg-into-hodor Do you think Rey could have lost control of her body, or felt pain, or try to fight back during the interrogation scene? Sorry, the harmful Rey/o ship doesn't even come close to the mutual respect and love Jaime and Brienne share. Not buying it. 

Tips on avoiding entering other tags:

Also when I entered the anti-reylo tag, most posts in the content just typed reylo without altering it. That’s why reylos say we’re invading their ship. Tumblr digs out posts like these even though they’re not tagged reylo. Guys remember to alter the ship name!