#aangmarble

[loopy777]

1/2 I got the paperback version too. I always wanted the hardcover version, but that one came with ridiculously high shipping costs D: Anyway, that's a vast collection you got there. There's some stuff I didn't even know existed, like the unofficial water tribe volumes. From a quick google search, it looks like a fancomic about Zhao? Was it popular back in the day? Then you have stuff I wouldn't have expected you to own, like the Zuko graphic novel, or as I like to call it, the atla manga xD

The 'Water Tribe' comic is, technically, a fan-comic about Zhao, but what distinguishes it is that it's written and drawn by a storyboard artist who actually worked on both AtLA and LoK, and did official comics for AtLA. It's been contradicted by Zhao's cameo in LoK, but the look and feel are IMO the closest you can get to the original animated series, so it goes on the shelf with my official Avatar comics.

I actually got it signed at the same time as the Zuko graphic novel, as Johane Matte and Benjamin Wilgus were sharing a table at NYCC. I had brought my own copy of Zuko's Story and purchased the Zhao comic there, but Wilgus got confused and thought I had purchased everything just then. So the original note hopes that I will enjoy it. But then Matte clarified the matter after I started walking away, so I was called back by Wilgus to get a post-script added with a correction to hoping I enjoyed it. So that's something unique.

Also, I forgot to mention before that Wilgus did a sketch of Cartoon Zuko in it, which is pretty much how everyone was treating the comic at the time- an AtLA prequel manga that for some reason had Zuko and Iroh drawn incorrectly but that's easy to ignore. XD

As for the manga itself, I think it has its ups and down, most of the ups being the bit with the Guru you're going to mention in your second part. It's not something I would recommend to anyone but the serious collector. ;)

Continued:

2/2 I remember liking the interactions between Zuko and the guru in that one. But the thing that surprised me the most was your signed copy of the comics. You mean to tell me that you willingly asked your archnemesis Gene Yang for his autograph? Are you truly Loopy777? xD Regarding the Avatar Legends game, can't you play with your brother? Or is he not an atla fan?

Hey, Yang was sharing the table with Hicks. I may not like his comics, but it would have been super awkward to just bring books for her to sign when most of the line had beloved copies of American Born Chinese with them! XD For the record, I think ABC lives up to the hype, and in fact I've loved all of Yang's original graphic novels that I've read. So I was able to have some pleasant conversations while waiting in that line.

However, one of the people waiting in line with me offered to get the rest of my Yang comics signed for me since she just had a couple of books for each author. I declined, saying I'd be happy just getting the first volumes signed since for me it's more about supporting the author and getting a nice thing for my collection. I did not say I didn't care that much about it that I wanted to bother someone else. XD

But yeah, here's the proof.

As for Avatar Legends, my brother and I find it hard to align our schedules enough for what would have to be a several-hour session, and he's never been much of a serious role-player. It would probably also be kind of weird just to play one-on-one, rather than in a group, as this system especially seems to be about collaborative storytelling. But yes, he's a fan of the original AtLA cartoon, although that hasn't extended to any of the expanded material or even LoK. For him, it's a show he enjoyed, not an obsession. Which is probably a much healthier mental state for this franchise. :P

[the-nysh]

Has it ever been explained/hinted at why Zombieman seems to be so caring over Child Emperor?

Hmm, now that you mention it...

Ever since the ova (hot springs murder case) they’ve seemed to have this endearing, professional sense of mutual respect. It’s quite heartwarming how Zombieman praises and holds CE in such high regard. :’) I’m not sure if it was ever formally explained why, but perhaps some other fans might know more?

[swordbending]

The scroll :)

the scroll: do you prefer to have a teacher to teach you, or learn on your own? it depends on how good the teacher is lol but i’d probably prefer to have someone teach me

thanks for the question!

send me avatar asks from the list here!

[linsbeifong]

New atla blog and im looking for some blogs to follow...what are your recs?😊

Welcome to the Gaang, anon!  Let me see....

@aangmarble ; @avatarparallels ; @avatarsymbolism ; @azulas ; @atlaworld ; @daily-toph ; @gayfandomblog ; @justteamavatar ; @kataara ; @kataracy ; @lightningbenders ; @master-katara ; @opalsbeifong ; @otterbender ; @wifeasami ; @wlwatertribe

💓💓💓💓

[wildpokemon]

The scroll, for the ask meme

Thanks for asking!! <3

The scroll: do you prefer to have a teacher to teach you, or learn on your own?

Hmmm, this is tough. I think it depends on how much knowledge I already have about something. If I know at least a little bit, I think I’d usually prefer to research and figure things out on my own so I can go at my own pace. But if I have absolutely no idea about the subject then I’d much rather be able to learn from someone else.

Send me something! 🌟

[loopy777]

The atla movie was delayed from January to February and then from February to October, and the latest update came with the news that Studio Mir is helping with the production even though it was supposed to be done already. Do I smell doom? All jokes aside, my bet is on the movie ranging from meh to fine, although I still believe it never should've been a thing in the first place.

I'm actually a bit heartened by the delays. XD

Sure, a movie being reworked can be a bad thing, but it just as often turns out to be a good thing, so we can't really go by that. And animated movies in particular seem to be a very iterative process, even the ones with relatively smooth productions.

What really had me worried was the original January release- I've consistently seen January described as where movies go to die. February and October are much better, having a few big blockbuster-sized hits released there in recent years, making them little profitable outposts outside of the blockbuster seasons. It doesn't look like there are any other Family Films or even wide-appeal planned for release at the beginning of October, so this movie has a good slot. Paramount/Nickelodeon must think this thing has some potential at least.

But yeah, I don't see a little <=2hr Adult GAang story wowing anyone, least of all fans. I am looking forward to people calling it an "anime movie" and all the anime/Avatar fans get mad about that. ;)

[loopy777]

1/2 A couple of months ago, Amazon became available in my country, and I took the opportunity to order the Kyoshi and Yangchen novels (plus the complete collection of Calvin and Hobbes). When they arrived I realized that even though I've been an atla fan since it first came out, these books are the first piece of (official) atla merchandise I've ever owned. I kinda wanna own more, but other than the original artbook

Continued:

2/2 and the "Beasts of the Four Nations" book that has been delayed for who knows how long now, I'm not really interested in anything else. However, it got me curious: what atla merchandise do you own? Do you have all the comics? DVDs/Blu-rays? Any figurines? Do you keep them all in a shelf specifically reserved for avatar products? :P

Good choices! (Both the Avatar novels and Calvin & Hobbes. I have the paperback complete collection box-set and it's a delight.)

Anyway, fun question! I was going to take a picture, but I realized I have too much stuff to photogenically arrange. I do not have an Avatar display, and in fact I currently am in dire need of extra shelving and only have a few haphazard displays of various things, with most of shelving given to my increasingly-chaotic library. I do have my Diamond Select Aang figure flying over my dresser, so that's nice.

The best way to present it is to probably break it down by category:

DVD

AtLA Season 1 DVD

AtLA Season 2 DVD

Atla Season 3 DVD

AtLA Complete Series Blu-Ray (signed by Grey DeLisle Griffin)

Toys

Mattel Airbending Aang (I found these on clearance for $2)

Mattel Spirit World Aang

Mattel Sokka

Mattel Zuko

Mattel Blue Spirit

Mattel Bumi

Mattel Roku

Diamond Select Aang (Book Fire)

Diamond Select Aang (Book Water)

Diamond Select Zuko (Book Fire)

Diamond Select Katara (Book Water)

Diamond Select Sokka (Book Water)

Diamond Select Azula (Book Fire Finale)

The Loyal Subjects BST AXN Aang (Book Fire)

The Loyal Subjects BST AXN Katara (Book Water)

The Loyal Subjects BST AXN Sokka (Book Earth)

The Loyal Subjects BST AXN Toph

The Loyal Subjects BST AXN Zuko

The Loyal Subjects BST AXN Jet

Comic Books

AtLA Art Book 1st Edition (signed by Giancarlo Volpe & Bryan Konietzko w/ sketches)

AtLA Art Book 2nd Edition

Water Tribe vol 1-2 (signed by Johane Matte) [UNOFFICIAL MATERIAL]

Zuko's Story Graphic Novel (signed by Benjamin Wilgus)

The Lost Adventures 1st Edition

Team Avatar Tales 1st Edition

The Promise vols 1-3

The Search vols 1-3 (vol 1 signed by Gene Luen Yang)

The Rift vols 1-3 (vol 1 signed by Gene Luen Yang)

Smoke & Shadow vols 1-3 (vol 1 signed by Gene Luen Yang)

North & South vols 1-3 (vol 1 signed by Gene Luen Yang)

Imbalance vols 1-3 (signed by Faith Erin Hicks)

Katara & the Pirate's Silver (signed by Faith Erin Hicks)

Toph Beifong's Metalbending Academy (signed by Faith Erin Hicks)

Suki, Alone (signed by Faith Erin Hicks)

Azula in the Spirit Temple

The Bounty Hunter & the Tea Brewer

Dark Horse FCBD 2021 (Relics) (Dirty Is Only Skin Deep)

Dark Horse FCBD 2013 (Rebound) (signed by Gene Luen Yang)

Dark Horse FCBD 2014 (Shells) (signed by Gene Luen Yang & Faith Erin Hicks)

Dark Horse FCBD 2015 (Sisters) (signed by Gene Luen Yang & Carla Speed McNeil)

Dark Horse FCBD 2016 (Friends for Life)

Dark Horse FCBD 2018 (Lost Pets)

Dark Horse FCBD 2021 (Clearing the Air) (Matcha Makers)

Dark Horse FCBD 2023 (Lost and Found) (signed by Amy Chu)

Novels

The Rise of Kyoshi (signed by F. C. Yee)

The Shadow of Kyoshi (signed by F. C. Yee)

The Dawn of Yangchen

The Legacy of Yangchen

The Reckoning of Roku

Prints

Poster of Book 3, Vol 2 DVD art (signed by Michael Dante DiMartino, Bryan Konietzko, & Dante Basco)

Poster of Imbalance Vol 1 Cover art (signed by Peter Wartman w/ sketch)

Korra Turf Wars Cardstock Promotional Print (I think? It's art of the entire cast standing together and Bolin is wearing a cop uniform, which I think happens in Turf Wars.)

Games

Avatar Legends Core Rule Book

Avatar Legends Journal Pack

Avatar Legends Dice Bag

Avatar Legends Combat Action Deck

Avatar Legends Four Nations Cloth Map

Avatar Legends Wan Shi Tong's Adventure Guide

Avatar Legends Adventure Booklets 1-5

Avatar Legends White Lotus Tile

Avatar Legends Quickstart Set

Avatar Legends Dice Pack (2)

As for what I don't own:

I didn't get any of the McFarlane toys because I didn't like some of their sculpts and the articulation was very low. Likewise, I dropped the Diamond Selects line because their sculpts were getting worse, their articulation had never been good, and once the McFarlane line came out I knew I'd have options. The BST AXN toys are the best yet, but they seem to be done with their line and haven't gotten to the Dangerous Ladies, so that's probably another false start. I'd just like a line of toys which collects all the major cast members in a cartoon-accurate standard style with enough articulation to do some martial arts poses. Is that too much to ask?

I also haven't bothered with the Korra comics or art books since I'm not a fan of the animated series. The stuff I've acquired for Korra literally came from someone at a convention shoving the product at me, hence that cardstock art print I can't identify.

I waver on whether to get the Avatar Legacy books, since their art looks nice but they have the 'smell' of non-canon material to them. I'd probably pick them up if something brings them to my attention while they're discounted, or if I receive them as gifts. I have absolutely no interest in the Avatar cookbook since I don't cook and, again, the 'lore' included probably isn't even close to canon. I might be interested in the Beasts book, but I need more info on it; I'd be interested in a real reference book or new material, but not something that just slaps some new art on the info already collected on the wiki. I don't care about the kiddie books.

All my signed items were obtained myself at various conventions and are made out to me by name. NYCC has been a big help there for the books, comics, and posters, although Baltimore Comic Con has pulled its weight, and I have to give big props to my local anime convention for getting me a Dante Basco signature for free, even if I didn't own a Blu-Ray set at the time to get signed. I attended a dual-signing at NYCC one year with Gene Yang and Faith Hicks, but I was the only one with an entire box full of stuff, so I had to narrow down the Yang stuff to just the first volumes of each trilogy in order not to get kicked out of line. And yes, I deliberately left out The Promise; I couldn't even get that one signed ironically.

I have a lot of Avatar Legends stuff for a game I'm never going to play because I have no friends. I backed the Kickstarter out of interest and support for the brand, and then I've gotten a bunch of free extra stuff via giveaways at NYCC, but I don't see the point in buying expansions/adventures for a game I'm not playing.

[loopy777]

1/2 Yeah, those final pages were really sweet. They may or may not have made me tear up a little xD And before that I also thought it was sweet how they brought back that little kid who can throw plates from his hair. I immediately recognized him as the kid from the start of the liberation war arc. Back then I remember thinking his design was too distinct and wondering if Horikoshi had something in store for him or if he had just forgotten about him. Let's just say I was pleasantly surprised

I admit I didn't recognize him when I first read it, but yeah, it's nice to see a callback like that. I also forgot the basement kid who Granny helped had appeared prior to that. And the only reason that I noticed the reappearance of The Funny Looking Guy (who talks with Deku in the first few minutes of the first episode) was because my brother and I had just rewatched that episode. Clearly, I have an eye for the recurring extras. XD

2/2 I have however seen a lot of people who didn't like Deku being a teacher and waiting so long to be a hero again. They used to accuse Deku of being a nepo baby cause his quirk was a "handout" from all might and now they're doing it again cause he waited years until he was given another handout (the suit) to resume his hero work. I feel like those criticisms are disingenous though so I try not to engage

Deku-

-is a nepo baby-

-despite All Might not knowing Deku prior to a demonstration of his character and being completely unrelated to him.

Yeah, 'disingenuous' might even be understating it.

[loopy777]

1/2 Sooo chiming in on the MHA discourse, one of the complaints I see most often regarding this final arc is people being disappointed by the fact that Bakugo didnt die and that he will most likely survive, a complaint I don't get. I agree with what you said about the kids inhereting the world, but what really rubs me the wrong way is how shounen fans want so badly to see kids dying in their favorite manga. I've seen it with MHA, Jujutsu Kaisen, Attack on Titan, etc.

2/2 And when kids don't die or they survive impossible situations, they call the author a "coward." Idk, it's not that I'm against kids dying in a story, but if an author wants to convey an idealistic message and doesn't want to kill a literal child in the process, I think that's perfectly fine. Insisting that Bakugo should die feels a little too edgy and cringy to me

For my part, I'm a little nonplussed by Bakugo's fate because he's already had a big sacrifice-himself-oh-no-wait-it's-a-fakeout moment, and the anime adapted it in the latest season. So we're sitting here waiting to find out whether Bakugo survives, only to be reminded that we just did this recently (in-universe timescale, anyway). So I can see the complaints coming from the repetition.

But yeah, I agree that idealism and not killing kids are not surprising things to be the subject of a superhero story that's done a pretty good job of reconstructing the archetype. Typical shonen stuff kills people off, probably (I admit that FMA: Brotherhood is probably my only other extensive experience with the genre), but in superhero media (which I am much more knowledgeable of), familiar characters dying used to be a once-in-a-decade event. Sure, the 90s happened, as well as the Woman In The Refrigerator trend, but overall MHA has pulled a lot more from the Silver Age despite the violence it indulges in.

But most people watching MHA are probably more accustomed to those shonen tropes rather than American Superhero Comics, so the swerve feels off. And it doesn't help, I'm sure, how much MHA throws around violence and sexualization with these teenagers, so they might come across as more adult characters than they really are, and subject to more adult themes like War & Death & Stuff.

That's one reason why I really liked it when the Ultimate Spider-Man comics would have Peter wearing his school backpack when in costume, and the Spider-Verse movies when Miles wears his hoodie and/or Nikes. The addition of those elements really helps visually sell that these are teenage superheroes, when superhero art otherwise tends to idealize the body so much that it can be tough to convey age.

[loopy777]

Did you read chapter 431 of MHA? I just read it and smiled like an idiot from beginning to end. Made me realize how much I like these characters. And as a shameless Toga fan, I got everything I ever wanted and more. Anyway, I don't think there's an official translation yet, but you can read a fan translation on Manga Trend if you're curious. Without spoiling anything, I think it addresses one of the complaints you had with the ending, but we'll see what you think :P

I was actually curious about how the Toga fans would feel about it, as the Togaraka Shippers had a pretty solid claim on being the canonical endgame ship for Uraraka before 431. XD

Of course, one can be a Toga fan without actually shipping her with anyone, and even finally getting IzuOcha (...is that really the ship name?) was at Toga's memory/ghost/vestige's impetus, cementing her importance to Uraraka, Deku, and the story overall. In comparison, Deku's version is just a quick memory of Shigaraki, which is on a tier much lower than dreamscape meetings.

But yeah, I really liked it. It showed the expanded version of everyone's adult lives I wanted to see, even if it's just a quick subtitle confirming who has an agency and who is someone's sidekick. The interactions were all fun, especially Bakugo's roundabout way of trying recruit Deku to his agency. And of course the people who can tolerate Bakugo are bumbing rides in his cool care every opportunity! I'm still not a fan of Iida's hair, but I suspect that's the point. XD

(There's a big question about why all this is only included in the collected edition. But I guess we're getting a Vigilantes anime and the MHA anime is concluding in a normal final season and not a movie/OVA or other weird release, so I can't accuse them of being too evil.)

And, of course, having a confirmed healthy adult romance does go a long way towards addressing my complaint about the lack of confirmed ships in the serialized version of the story. Heck, even the notable lack of confirmation for KamiJirou (...I guess it flows better than 'IzuOcha,' but I'm not a fan of this either; can I persuade this fandom to embrace "ChargeJack?" It's a lot more fun, at least) was a nice addition, if just to show that it's going to be a lifelong running gag for this group.

That said, as someone who is middle-aged and unmarried, I'm giving the side-eye to the implication that Deku and Uraraka aren't living for themselves and/or don't have anything personal in their lives without a romance. I don't think the story goes that hard on it, since Todaroki's version of the theme is to get super-into his cooking hobby and that of course has the connection to his siblings, showing that hobbies can be really meaningful, too. So I'm not too critical of it, but I'm not fully rescinding my caveat from my original ending analysis that MHA overall is pretty weird about romance and women. However, I think I'll soften it to a "recommendation and depending on who I'm talking to I'll probably include a casually-voiced warning." Ah, anime.

[loopy777]

1/3 Did you like the reveal that AfO gave Shiggy his quirk? Is that the last-second twist you said that you liked? Cause that's like, my only real complaint with MHA's ending. I felt it was so unnecessary. The whole "AfO planned everything" shtick was so overdone that even the story made fun of it when it was revealed that AfO saved Toya. Not to mention that it kinda undermines Shiggy's character? He used to be a product of a flawed hero society that ignored him until a villain found him,

2/3 and the point was that this could've been prevented, that if someone had extended a helping hand to this kid, he wouldn't have become a villain. But by making it so that AfO planned everything from his literal birth, it turns out that Shiggy becoming a villain was unavoidable? And call me nitpicky, but Decay actually being half of Overhaul's quirk is really dumb and forced. Just say that AfO gave Shiggy a random decay quirk if you really wanna go that route 3/3 Anyway, sorry if I sound really negative. Again, this is my only big complaint with the ending. I liked everything else about the final arc and have been defending it like crazy in one of my discord groups xD Figured I'd take this chance to complain for once. Also, I'm not that passionate about Shiggy. He and Spinner are a little too NEET-coded for me to like them :P

Nah, I thought that was dumb, too. XD

I guess I rolled my eyes at it and forgot about it, though, because I'm used to it in the superhero genre. It's so common that some of the more egregious instances have become a meme, and I specifically remember experiencing it in real-time as The Worst Spider-Man Story Of All Time, the infamous Clone Saga, ended with the Green Goblin revealing that he'd been secretly alive for 25 years of publishing and had arranged the whole thing just to mess with Spider-Man, including all the stuff he couldn't have possibly arranged. And then Marvel made people pay for a full explanation. I think I also recall X-Men indulging in that trope quite a few times, and there's a fair chance any Evil Genius villain is going to make a claim towards it whenever they appear.

What's funny is that I love this trope when it's done right. I've found myself using it in my own writing without realizing it, although I find myself more open than most writers, it seems, to letting some things be a coincidence and even allowing the Evil Mastermind to fumble here and there. One of the reasons why the Prequel Era is actually one of my favorite in the Star Wars Expanded Universe is that the writers were pretty good at allowing Palpatine to have to react to the heroes constantly messing up his intricate plans, making him more of a Master Of Plan B than a true mastermind, which actually makes him seem smarter to me than a lot of these masterminds who clearly have to be taking credit for stuff they didn't do. ;)

Anyway! Nah, the twist I like is the last few pages of the epilogue, where it looks like Deku is going to live the rest of his life as a civilian, but then it turns out Bakugo and the rest of the class pooled their money to make him an Iron Man suit so that he could be a hero with them. I really like that for the characters, and also that the new society they're creating will allow quirkless people to be classic superheroes if that's what they want. It's a nice way to finish the story.

When I say "last-second," I mean it. ;)

[loopy777]

Sooo ASN is shutting down, huh. And to think after years of lurking the forums, I finally created an account last year cause I thought the upcoming Netflix series would liven things up. Oh, the cruel irony... Anyway, this is a reminder to archive your posts. You made like 30k+ posts in total, right? I'm sure there's something in there you'd like to save.

Wow, end of an era. This Ask is how I found out first.

Fortunately, it seems that most of the site will stay up in Read Only mode, so the craziness of the Shipping threads -- which were really mostly the General Avatar Discussion And Banter threads -- will remain available for all. I probably have some pretty good analysis on the Angry Spirits space, though, so I should see about archiving that stuff. (I checked my browser bookmarks, and yes, I at least have an Epic Asami-Bashing post that I felt the need to keep track of.)

Mostly, I’m just glad I was able to finish Traitor’s Face before ASN shuts down. I would have felt awkward with that thread hanging unfinished.

Anyway, if anyone still wants to discuss Avatar on a Message Board, perhaps when the Netflix series starts up, @atlafans has some boards that only require a little fixing up.

[loopy777]

For the atla ask game: Lu Ten, Zuko, Azula, Gyatso

LuTen: What is something you have lost recently?

The settings for my Eclipse workspace on my work computer. I just asked for tech support to update the operating system’s environment settings, but the guy took it upon himself to instead wipe clean my Eclipse settings, so now I can’t get the workspace’s virtual servers to start. This is hair-tearing-out frustrating.

Zuko: What is something good you’ve done for someone? 

A lot of people seem happy that I’ve updated ‘The Avatar & the Fire Princess.’ So I guess that’s nice? In real life, I answer questions at work all the time because my team is full of new people and I’ve been kicking around for 15 years, so I know all about our crazy-bad systems architecture. I’m not sure if sharing such information is really good, though...

Azula: Are you a good liar?

Sometimes. I mostly lie about my life and interests to casual acquaintances so that no one knows I’m an adult still in a household with my parents who writes fanfic about a children’s cartoon. I don’t feel bad about that stuff, but I know other people are judgey about it, so I take it upon myself to ease the burden that would be looking down on me.

Monk Gyatso: What is something that gives you nostalgia?

Every year, back when conventions were a thing, my brother and I would go to a local con that would get 80′s cartoon voice actors and vendors who sell toys and memorabilia of properties from the 70′s and 80′s. There’s always plenty of modern Transformers stuff there, but I get a kick out of seeing all the licensed junk I used to be familiar with from stores and commercials and even owned myself.

Also, I recently started going into Youtube playthroughs of bad NES games that I forgot existed. A lot of those complete playthroughs take only 10 or 15 minutes.

[loopy777]

I'd say the good ol' Santa lie has become a little controversial in recent years. There are certainly lots and lots of debates online. Personally, I'm favour of it. Partly because of the generic "it gives children a sense of wonder" argument, and partly because once kids find out the truth, it teaches them not to fully trust anyone, 'cause even those closest to you will lie to you. But maybe I'm just one cynical bastard.

Meh, if you were a real cynic, you’d know that there’s no need for elaborate conspiracies, everyone close to you will eventually lie to you anyway. It can’t be stopped. ;)

More seriously, I do question the common Wonder argument. I mean, kids don’t know anything. They’ll believe anything you tell them when they’re little. Do they get more wonder from believing in Magic Gift-Giving Geriatrics than they would knowing that their parents set out a pile of presents overnight to celebrate a holiday? I mean, 2-year-olds think flushing toilets have a sense of Wonder. And how long do kids really last before they start to wonder if their parents are messing with them? The longest they could possibly go is grade school, when the less Wonderous kids start making fun of everyone who still believes in Santa, and after that there’s always a bit of doubt.

I think a lot of the people involved in any Santa Debate don’t remember being kids.

[loopy777]

Deadpan Snarker, Weak but Skilled, Hidden Heart of Gold

No doubt about the first. I’m such a deadpan snarker that I go out of my way to inhabit the headspaces of fictional characters who allow me to do more deadpan snarking than I’d usually have the opportunity for.

The second wouldn’t have occurred to me, but I think it’s true. One time, when I was seven or eight, I was playing a video game against a friend who was better than me and winning. Rather than lose, I discovered that I could keep pausing and unpausing the game to throw off my opponent’s timing. I’m not proud of that, but I think it proves my nature.

I’m not sure I actually have the classic Hidden Heart of Gold, though. I think it’s more that I have an acerbic exterior, under which I have a hidden good heart, within which I have a cynical and selfish core that I try to work against when I’m aware of it. But then, perhaps that’s what all Hidden Heart of Gold types think. Who knows?

[loopy777]

1/3 Unpopular opinion: from a purely thematic perspective, the Lion Turtle in the atla finale made perfect sense. Having Aang defeat the Fire Lord with a power given to him by an ancient creature who, just like Aang, is the last one of his species and who, also just like Aang, comes from a past that has been forgotten, is incredibly clever. After coming to terms with the fact that the Air Nomads are gone, after seeing the history of his culture either erased or altered to fit with

2/3 The Fire Nation's war propaganda, and after explicitly being told by the Fire Lord himself that his people and everything they stood for did not deserve to exist... Aang defeating Ozai without killing him and taking his powers away with a technique from days long forgotten is the biggest "fuck you" imaginable. It is, unto itself, an statement that needed to be made in a world that was already so scarred and hopeless due to the war. I'll always agree that the Lion Turtle

3/3 could've had a better build-up (things like the Lion Turtle statue in Piandao's manor were not foreshadowing, but mere easter eggs) but the parallels between it and Aang made everything tie in together perfectly, at least for me. Also, Lion Turtles are just pretty fucking cool in general and I want one as a pet. Thoughts?

You’re going to have to try harder to be unpopular with me, because I agree completely.

Well, mostly agree.

You’re on point with the part about it being thematically appropriate. I’m on record (via the Avatar Spirit forums) from before the airing of the finale as hoping that Aang’s defeat of Ozai comes about with some special Air Nomad move that embodies their philosophy. So I was already looking for something like we got, but as you say, bringing the Lionturtle with all its parallels is really clever.

I can understand if people would have liked Ozai to die as retribution for his crimes, as that’s a very human feeling and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t crave some cosmic retribution every so often, but the message of the way Aang actually defeats Ozai is so much better. I have more of a problem with people who try to nitpick the story. Like those who claim that no one will respect the Avatar if he doesn’t establish the possibility of a death penalty, to which I always ask which is scarier: dying, or having your soul ripped out and then being left to struggle through life without even the strength to sit up properly? And those who say that Aang selfishly placed his own spirituality above the safety of the world are completely missing what Aang’s ideals actually mean to him. He acted according to what he really saw as the best solution for everyone, not what would get him to a ‘heaven’ that doesn’t even exist in the setting.

Aang’s solution works both in-universe, and as part of the story.

What I do disagree with is that the Lionturtle needed better build-up or foreshadowing. I admit that the quick references to Lionturtles in The Desert and Sokka’s Master are functionally worthless, but I don’t think that Lionturtles need dedicated foreshadowing. Hei Bai, Koh, the Moon/Ocean Spirits, Wan Shi Tong, the weirdness in the Swamp, and Comet and Eclipse do all the foreshadowing we need, establishing that this world is full of weird, powerful, supernatural stuff that’s constantly surprising our main cast. The Lionturtle isn’t out of place amidst all of that, and it’s not like we’re given reason to wonder why the Lionturtle isn’t running around giving his power away to everyone. It’s established as a power that requires an ‘unbendable spirit,’ and that’s what Aang demonstrates when he meditates for an answer and the Lionturtle comes calling.

I’ve also never understood the criticism of the use of Deus Ex Machina, when ‘deus’ - literally ‘gods’ - are an established part of the setting who have reacted to story events before. So many people in our world pray, and they don’t even expect a response! But we get outraged when a god messes with stuff in a setting where gods get upset with mortals and sometimes rampage like Godzilla? XD

The only problem I have with Aang’s battle with Ozai is the rock that just so happens to hit Aang at the precise spot and Aangle (:P) to unlock the Avatar State. I’ll never be able to get over that one. Deux Ex Machina is great storytelling when done properly; Convenient Stuff is where my suspension of disbelief takes a hit.

Getting back to the Lionturtle itself, I too love the design, and also how little is really explained about it. The Mike and the Bryan have said that the reason Aang couldn’t be sniffed out is because the Lionturtle’s ancient scent covered up Aang’s, but that’s not said anywhere in any cartoon, so I’m sticking with my headcanon that the Lionturtle exists half in the Spirit World. I love how the Lionturtles are used in the tale of Avatar Wan, granting elemental powers and acting as shelters for humanity, still big and god-like and completely unexplained. They’re best left as a remnant of an age that has no surviving history, and showing their origins would risk destroying the impact for fan-service.

The only Lionturtle-specific criticism I have is that I could recognize Kevin Michael Richardson’s voice instantly. Something I couldn’t place so easily would have been better. And with the processing, he was a little hard to understand the first time I watched the finale.