#after S4 happened YouTube was... Ew

[inevitably-johnlocked]

Weird q..but i really dont understand why most fans hate season 4, especially the last episode. Why? I think it gave us a deeper look on both sherlock and mycroft! I felt it tells a lot about mycroft how he had to step in and take control of things ever since he was a kid himself. Also he is not a robot or a killer. Also redbeard thing. It was an appropriate deep psychological trauma (cause most shows usually disappoint in that area). I am not trying to impose my opinion. Just want to understand

Hey Nonny!

It’s all good, and I totally respect your opinion and how you enjoyed S4! It’s totally okay! I know that there are quite a few who got a lot of of S4, and who genuinely enjoyed it.

Sadly, I am not one of those people, and I’ll try to be as diplomatic a possible in my response, but PLEASE know that I don’t think you’re “terrible” or “stupid” for liking S4 because I DO get passionate sometimes in my responses, and I’m just merely speaking as someone who studied the series very closely for quite a long time before S4 aired, and as someone who knows Day-One-ers (ie., people who watched Sherlock on its day one airdate) who also are a large majority of the people who did not like S4. This is just me simply stating why I didn’t like it, but it’s different for everyone.

Stating what I DO like: The acting and cinematography of the first two episodes were brilliant for what they had to work with, and I’ve never faulted any of the actors for the flaws of S4. And for TFP, they did the best with what they had to work with.

That’s… pretty much all I really liked about S4.

Now, here’s my problems with S4:

Nothing made a LICK of sense to the narrative that they were telling in Seasons prior. 

This series was always based a bit in reality, and suddenly everything became comic-book rules: X-Men villains, shitty “redemption” arc, destroying favourite characters just for drama, ludicrous physics, explosions that only destroyed one small room in an apt where in previous episodes one explosion destroyed an entire block, etc.

Sherlock was OOC.

Mary was being built up to be a fantastic villain? Ah, nope, here’s the lacklustre twist where tee hee Mary’s just an assassin with a heart of gold that still emotionally abuses Sherlock and John and just won’t fucking stay dead.

And speaking of this, the DVD’s make NO LOGICAL SENSE unless she was planning to kill herself

AND she tries to make her death equatable to Sherlock’s??

Everyone was RIDICULOUSLY out of character in TFP, I’m so sorry: Mycroft is a bumbling coward for the most part, Sherlock disregards John when he gives the Vatican Cameos warning, the Holmes Parents are assholes because Mycroft COULDN’T SOLVE A PROBLEM WHEN HE WAS 12?? ARE YOU SERIOUS???? And that creepy Moriarty / Eurus thing, and LITERALLY they’re implying that EVERYTHING HAPPENED BECAUSE EURUS DIDN’T GET A HUG. Like, I’m so sorry, but that’s lazy writing.

And don’t even get me started on the ridiculousness of the entire character of Eurus. She LITERALLY had X-Men powers, and like… just nothing made sense. Her involvement in the entirety of S4 MADE NO SENSE. Why go back to prison if you can get out?? WHAT IS THE POINT?? AND I repeat: She did all this because she didn’t get a hug. Yes. I’m oversimplifying, but at the base level, that’s what it was, because she wanted Sherlock’s attention. Welcome to the club, kid, stand in line, everyone on the SHOW wants his attention.

The ENTIRE plot of the first 2 seasons got wiped out all because it wasn’t Moriarty who was interested in Sherlock, but Eurus?? What… What about Carl Powers?? Like…. the ENTIRETY of season one and TGG makes no sense now, because of that one 5 minute scene where Eurus “enlists” Moriarty. I… ugh.

The SUDDEN tonal switch from kind-of Sherlock to James Bond, for some fucking reason.

And on that note, how terribly lazy and cheap TFP looks in comparison to the other two episodes. The whole episode looks like it was filmed in a small house with 4 identical rooms.

EVERYTHING that was etablished in 2 episodes prior were COMPLETELY forgotten when Mary was “shot”.

The complete character assassination of one loyal blogger John H Watson in favour of Mary for some fucked up reason, even though AT HIS OWN WEDDING HE COULDN’T STAND BEING AROUND MARY. I’m sorry, but I don’t believe for one damned second that John would EVER forgive Mary for murdering his best friend after seeing what it did to him. That’s not love from her, and that’s NOT John’s character EVER in the ENTIRETY of the series.

And speaking of character assassinations, Molly’s character being devolved to S1E1 Molly, where instead of giving her agency like they were doing with her the ENTIRE series, so much so that Sherlock picked up on her dominance enough to give her a big role in his mind palace in HLV and TAB, only to make her a sad little self-insert Mary Sue pining for the main character, and in turn made Sherlock a TERRIBLE human being for MAKING HER say what she did. It’s gross.

AND speaking of Molly’s character, they’ve been setting up Mollstrade since as early as ASiB, but I guess that plot line got shafted. Look I LOVE Hopkins, and I am ANGRY they didn’t give her more than 3 fucking lines in the entirety of ONE episode after HEAVILY promoting her actress and character, but they essentially reduced her to a piece of ass for Lestrade to chase. AND THAT’S NOT HIS CHARACTER EITHER. EW GROSS.

The constant plot holes being gaped wide open, and the Chekov’s gun moments where they bring up shit but do nothing with it!! 

TD-12? Nope, just a lame reference to a story we like. 

John got shot at the end of TLD with a VERY REAL FUCKING GUN? Nope, it was a dart gun. 

John not suddenly knowing how to be a doctor.

The TGG one I mentioned up above. 

What was in the letter? And who was Anyone??

Moriarty essentially being erased as anything other than a hired thug and had no part whatsoever in Sherlock’s history. 

Eurus… Just all of her character is asinine. 

Everyone in T6T suddenly not knowing John’s the blogger, which is in direct contradiction to literally the entire series. 

The AGRA plotline was ridiculous, in the end.

Baby? What baby? It was only there when convenient.

They dropped whatever plotline they were going to do for Mycroft: He was being set up as either dying, or the villain.

Redbeard. I’m sorry, I disagree with you on that. Mofftiss is trying to tell me that a little boy fell down a well and went missing, and that WASN’T the first place searchers / the police wouldn’t have looked? Sorry, no. And then. AND THEN his parents just… go along with this thing where Sherlock shuts down and they DON’T get him therapy? Yes, I agree the mind is a funny thing, and we can be traumatised into forgetting or dissociating from traumatic events. I GET IT. But… like I don’t believe the Holmes are so heartless as to just never grieve or have memories around about their supposedly dead daughter. It’s another OCC thing for me.

John’s cheating.

Disappearing and reappearing characters, like this scene, and the entirety of the aquarium scene.

Mary and John being terrible parents

OH GOD THIS FUCKING SCENE. That bomb SHOULD HAVE DESTROYED THE ENTIRE BUILDING.

What… who was this girl on the plane? What? Like I know WHO, but if she’s supposed to be Eurus talking to Sherlock, why don’t we see Eurus… talking to Sherlock? I … Ugh.

NORBURY. 

The glass SUPER SECRET GOVERNMENT ROOM THAT NO ONE SHOULD SEE INTO in T6T.

Sloppy camera work that some believe was intentional, but if it wasn’t, jesus c’mon.

The RIDICULOUS amount of 4th Wall Breaking. Like… even the actors didn’t give a shit.

Essentially, everything on this list here and in this blog tag here.

And everything mentioned on these three posts:

T6T: 10 Revealing Things That Haunt You Late at Night 

TLD: 10 Revealing Things That Haunt You Late at Night

TFP: 10 Revealing Things That Haunt You Late at Night

There’s SO much more I can go into, but please go through my “something’s fucky” tag in that last link.

Notice how probably 90% of that has NOTHING to do with “johnlock not becoming canon” because the Johnlockers get MONSTROUS accusations as to THAT being why we didn’t like S4, even though it was, like critically panned by the GENERAL AUDIENCE who have NO investment in the series other than “I liked it in the past”.

Two of my fave YouTubers have interesting (not perfect, but still good) takes coming at the series as casual viewers:

‘The Day Sherlock Died’ by The Closer Look

‘Sherlock is Garbage, and Here’s Why’ by hbomberguy

So it’s NOT just Johnlockers. I’ve talked to Sher1011ies at 221B con who didn’t like S4 either, because most of them realized how shitty Molly was treated in the last episode. So yeah, a big middle finger to those who think I dislike S4 because of  “no Johnlock”. No, I disliked it because I need my stories to make logical narrative sense. I disliked it because I love John and they ruined his character all for the sake of drama and because Moffat has a “hurting Ben” kink. I disliked it because Mary should NOT have been “redeemed” because she was an abuser. I disliked it because Moriarty was turned into a cartoon villain, even though he was already overused in the series. I disliked it because the core of the show – the FRIENDSHIP of Sherlock and John, and their solving mysteries together – did not exist at all. I disliked it because John got sidelined. I disliked it because TFP was a ridiculous episode that, if you replace ANY of the characters, it wouldn’t make a difference, because it didn’t feel like an episode of Sherlock. I disliked it because everyone was OOC.

Anyway. Sorry. One too many accusations my way over the past 1100+ days LOL.

As for your assessment of TFP, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you. There was no growth and actually it implies something far more sinister: That the Holmes are and were terrible parents that gave no shits about their daughter, their traumatized son, and expected their eldest to essentially be a parent. It implies that Mycroft, at 12 years old, orchestrated the ENTIRE Sherrinford thing… Look I can suspend my disbelief, but there’s limits, and this is one of them. A LITERAL CHILD. Perhaps Uncle Rudy had a hand in it somehow, but then why not shit on Uncle Rudy? Why is Mycroft blamed for it all?

Look, I don’t doubt Sherlock had a traumatic experience regarding “Redbeard”. But then why play into the fact that he was a dog? Why bring another character into the series just to have a gotcha moment? Because Mofftiss wanted a “Shyamalan twist”, that’s why. They threw EVERYTHING away for a twist ending either because they GENUINELY thought it was good, or they got tired of doing Sherlock. ALL of TFP is LITERALLY a really bad plot twist because reasons. TFP makes no sense to the ENTIRE narrative structure of the previous 12 episodes. It erased EVERYTHING from the previous episodes, and coated it with a gross closing by a character no one wanted in the series, and then tried to convince us that it’s a new beginning – “a journey they had to go through” – but it SOLVED NOTHING.

Anyway. I have big feels about S4, and the only way I can enjoy it is to watch it subtextually, but even then, I cannot sit through TFP without cringing. 

That said, Lovelies, please do not attack Nonny for enjoying S4! I know you guys won’t, but Nonny came out with an olive branch and they just want to understand why the fandom is passionate about S4′s… whatever it was. We can have a civil discussion about it, and point out – without attacking – why S4 is universally panned. It’s okay to like things no one else does, and Nonny was respectful to me in this ask! 

So with that, feel free, lovelies, to express why YOU didn’t enjoy the series, or why you did! I’m interested in both “sides” / pov’s whatever :)

[bendthekneejon]

Hey any advice on keeping hope? I really want to but with some of these (f)leaks these days I get more and more stressed and I try to avoid them but head just keeps spinning the possibilities. Your list helps for all the possibilities but I just need some assurances if it is not a bother

Hi anon, take a deep breath. Try to examine the fleaks with more reason than emotion, remembering what you know about the characters and the plot. I’m gonna ramble a lot now. 

We’ll start with Dany. Her story is one of empowerment, a source of strength for slaves, women, etc. and a hugely inspiring character for the audience as well. Her arch is one of overcoming adversities, of growing up, of striving to help people.

And madness? She’s wondered a bunch of times in ASOIAF if she’s mad, she’s scared about that. But tbh, haven’t you heard that asking yourself if you’re mad means that you aren’t? Lol, anyway, she’s never enjoyed murdering others. She banned torture ffs. She wasn’t like Cersei who sipped her wine as she smiled while watching the Sept burn to the ground. 

I’ll tell you something that just happened to me. I got into an argument defending Dany on Facebook this week. I was saying how clear Martin has been that she’s a selfless and devoted queen and not a mad one, and that D&D are clearly forcing this “role” into her for the sake of drama. A bunch of book readers came after me to tell me I was wrong. They told me they found book!Dany unbearable and annoying, and that the show had changed her character for the audience to like her better, that they wrote her friendlier and nicer. 

Now, idk if you’ve read the books anon, but when people call Dany annoying they’re usually referring to i. how she usually yells “but i’m a targaryen!” and ii. when she fell in love with daario and she was horny af. Now, I don’t think neither of these are wrong (first, her last name is what she uses to demand respect bc she’s a small girl; and 2nd, she’s a teenager who’s lonely as fuck OF COURSE she’s horny and needs some cuddling and good dick ffs). Anyway I’m rambling. I wanted to get to the following point: for these anti book!Dany dudes, show!Dany was less annoying and friendlier for the audience (even though she’s cute and funny in asoiaf anyway). So I realized they were contradicting themselves. If D&D have made show!Dany more likeable and friendly by omitting certain scenes from asoiaf (eg. when she made out with daario in front of everyone), it’s because D&D are emphasizing the characterization of a good queen. If they wanted her to be the ultimate villain, the “mad” queen, they would have included maybe the time when she tortured the wineseller’s daughter (that doesn’t make her mad though, she banned torture after that), they would have added MORE violence to prove this point. But they didn’t. Instead, they’ve shown this selfless queen risking her life, dragons and armies to save her bf and then the WORLD. They could’ve omitted that. They could’ve made her kill Varys when he told her he wouldn’t give her blind loyalty, but instead, they wrote a line where she tells him: “if you ever see i’m failing the people, you’ll look me in the eye and tell me how i’m failing them”. See my point? If D&D wanted her to truly become mad, they would’ve made an effort to build that progressive fall to madness like they did with Cersei, but they didn’t. 

This quote is important: “So you don’t want anything to surprise you for surprise’s sake. You want everything to feel earned and to look back and go ‘okay, yeah, I could see how they were building to that.’ And from that I know from the final season, it does that.” (James Hibberd, EW’s Game of Thrones Weekly podcast). The thing is, the mad queen bullshit DOES FEEL unearned, because D&D have strived to show the opposite through the seasons. It’s a “surprise for surprise’s sake”, so it makes no sense with this quote. You know those YouTube videos that are called “Every Daenerys Targaryen Scene”? Watch them. Watch her arch, watch for yourself how D&D have built her. 

Now, Jonerys’ plot is also crucial for this mad dany bullshit. Let’s examine the order of events in their love story:

Jon meets Dany and he’s annoyed by her (and she by him), thinking at the start that she’s just power hungry like Cersei and just wants the IT. He even wonders if she really is the Mad King’s daughter when he talks to Tyrion on the cliff.

Jon starts realizing she’s not thaaat bad when she gives him access to the mines.

Jon witnesses Dany risking her life and dragons to save him and his people, which made him realize he had misjudged her.

Jon finally “sees her for what she is” and falls in love with her true personality. 

So, if D&D’s point is that Jon is gonna kill Dany bc he didn’t know her well enough (enough to realize she’s mad), they would’ve had him fall in love with her the moment he met her and then see her true colors of a “mad queen”. But they did the opposite. Jon thought FIRST she was the Mad King’s daughter, and then fell in love when he saw her for what she was. They could have reduced her and Jon’s plot to only physical attraction and sex. But they didn’t. They could’ve omitted Jon telling her “they’ll come to see you for what you are” after witnessing her selflessness. But they didn’t. 

The same goes for Dany. The fact that she fell in love with Jon shows that she isn’t mad–what attracts her is also selflessness and goodness–did you see the face she put when she saw Jon’s scars??? When he volunteered to go beyond the wall to catch a wight? These times when she saw how caring Jon was for his people were the ones where she fell in love with him HARD. If she were mad, if she enjoyed violence and all that shit, she would LOVE Daario much more–a super violent dude–yet their relationship WAS reduced to sex only, and when she said goodbye to him on the show “she felt nothing”, and when she slept beside him in ADWD “she felt alone”. She didn’t love him. Violence does not attract her.

Jon was the one who held her hand as soon as he woke up in the boat, the one who knocked on her door for sex. Jon Snow!!! The dude who used to be a fuckign virgin until he got begged for sex 1000 times!!! Remember. He loves her, and loves her since he saw her for her true colors. He’s just conflicted and confused rn for drama purposes. So the fleak makes no sense. 

On the other hand, what makes perfect sense is the assumption that the leaker got the names wrong (Dany and Cersei) and that Jon kills Cersei bc he COULD BE the valonqar (he’s the youngest brother in his fam) and Dany is the YMBQ. And Cersei has said “what can lyanna’s ghost do to harm us?”  (cheers to @tomakeitbeautifultolive​  and @the-last-targaryens​ for this) and also “how can the Targaryen girl on the other side of the sea harm us?” (not the exact words, but same thing) in S4. Hmmmmmm… fishy. AND the “bells” leak also makes PERFECT sense for Cersei, and zeeero sense for Dany. 

Also: Jon on his own on the Throne would be the most expected and boring ending EVER. Also consider this boy would be MISERABLE in that job. It’s literally what he wants the least. 

And remember: Jonerys IS point of the story. 

Also: this ending has NO single common point with LOTR’s ending. 

And also: read the fleaks omfg the rest of them make no fucking sense. Bronn in the council are you fucjgin kidding me. That ending for bran?? Bullshit. Everything about them is nonsense. Think about them cold-headed. They’re absurd, stupid, they’re fucking comedy material. D&D are stupid too but these fleaks make no sense with Emilia’s interview where she says that the ending isn’t about who’s sitting on the Throne either.

I’m not defending d&d, but conflict is necessary for a happy ending to feel earned. ESPECIALLY inner conflict. So they’re doing all this stupid fucking mad queen shit for her happy ending to have more sense. Look at it this way, we still have TWO MORE MOVIE LENGTH EPISODES ahead. If the ending would be tragic, they would introduce the tragedy muuuch later, not two movies before it’s over.

FINALLY, please take care of yourself and this stress you’re going through. Eat fruits and vegetables, work out and sweat out the stress, and try to remain active during the day to take your mind off this if it’s making you this anxious. Your wellbeing is first. 

[targsdaenerys]

let me tell you all a story. a story of my experience with ouat.

2012.

in fourth grade, i was watching american idol. during commercials, i viewed a promo consisting of a dragon and unicorns. now, at the time, unicorns were my ver y favorite, so of course, i was intrigued. i told my mom that i heard about a show with unicrons, but that i didnt know what it was called. she told me how she had heard of it and wanted to check it out. after watching the season one interviews between red and snow, she believed it was too old for me. i agreed. no unicorns. not what i was expecting.

2013.

a year passes. fifth grade was a blur, and all i know is that we went to disney. i had no idea what would change since then.

2014.

my friends are suddenly starting to talk about this kid’s eyebrows. how they are “so hot” and “sexy”. she showed me a picture off of robbie kay’s instagram and i laughed. ha, peter pan? whatever.

but then, it started to reoccur each monday, they would talk about it. i actually started to look forward to monday lunch periods. i begged them to discuss what they thought of the episode. once again, i was intrigued. 

so of course, i wanted to see what the fuss was about. whats this big deal with peter pan? and who the hell’s rumple after only a few clips, i suddenly loved snow and charming. i needed more. i needed to watch.

so i tried. desperately.  i only had an ipad, and was unaware it was on netlfix, so i tried to watch the first episode of the series by typing in “once upon a time season 1 episode one online free to any platform.i actually was able to find it and went in excitedly the next day to tell my friends. that was when i learned it was on netflix and thati could not wait to get home and watch it. so i did. but the thing is, i was only there for snow and charming scenes.  i literally only skipped to their scenes. thats how i watched the show.

but then, as i was scrolling around youtube one day looking forsscenes for them, i came across “Emma and Hook Kiss scene” my frirst thought? it was between “ew”and “serioulsy?”

i watched it anyway.

and to behonest, it was kind of just a “okay, that happened” kind of thing. it wasnt until my friend told me after the season 3 finle that emma and hook kissed again before i got alitle excited. not much more, though.

then months pass, and suddenly, scrolling around netflix, i come across the hunger games. i held a grudge against the series since it became big with the popular group in my school that year. but i was thirsty for romance. and i heard it had some.

and thats how i fell in love with everlark. one night. the next morning i started following pages on instagram. i look up the ship on googlge. and tumblr posts pop up. i make a tumblr.

i start to follow pages on there with everlark, but then i start to see things on both platforms. emma and hook. and then, i slowly started to fall in love. not much. i just watch a couple of their scenes during season three, come across their second kiss. getting really, really excitated for the fourth season.

at the point, i had written about two everlark fanfictions. i wanted to write one about emma and hook, but i had no i dea how. or what .

but then tumblr inspired me. to the point where i started to freak out over every episode no matter how small the scenes were. in october of seventh grade, i wrote my first captain swan fanifction. i also drew my first drawing that i never thought i was able to do. sure, it was with a sketchbook my aunt got me in second grade and a #2 pecil, but i believe its still beautiful. it wasnt long after i actually found the name, captain swan, rather than using “kemma” or “killimma”.

2015.

and from there, my obsession sky rocketed. i stayed up until four every night after an episode, despite schol the next morning. i wrote little drabbles that arelong since gone ever since my laptop broke. i drew more drawings, i rewatched every scene until thats all that was in my head.the s4 finale was as hard on me as everyone else, and i tried to write a specualtion fic to the s5 premiere. i neverfinshed. although, looking back at the writing now, i can still feel the pain i was in by it.

and then season five started. again, i freaked out as much as everyone else. every episode. i still remeber the week after the first episode, we lost someone int he fandom. we miss you, love.

and then it was late october.saturday the 22nd, my mom came into my room to ask me if id seen my friend alyssa that day. she was a year older than me, afreshman in highschool. i didnt, so i told her. i didnt ever think what might have been.the following day, i was working at the food pantry when my mom caled me.they had found alyssa. but she wasnt okay.maybe in her mind she may have been the best shes ever been, but to us,she wasnt.

no one else knew, and i had to walk home in silence. i didnt cry because at the time we werent as close as the year before and it didnt hit me.but then my mother’s words repeated in my head. “Alyssa died, sweetie.” it was asentence i never forgot.

im not the best at keeping my emtions with myself. i always think people will judge me and call me selfish if i cry, and i didnt want it to be like that. so i kept it in.i kept the tears in for so, so long, even to the point here i didnt even cry at her wake where she looked like an angel although the scarf around her neck was something shed never wear. and what kept my sanity? once upon a time. it was then when i realized it was my anchor. 

2016.

back in 2015 my mother made me audtion for a vocational school. earlier that year i had found its dance program and wanted to go, but along the way my intrest dwindled. she told me to give it a shot anyway because i had a very low chance of making it in due to my grades at the time. 

i made it in. 

the following months were the worst of my life. every day on the way home from dance wed fight about which high school was better, and although she was right about me going to the vocational one, i wanted to stay in my district. lets just say the only thing that kept me from following alyssa into the darkness was dance competitions. oh, and what else. the damn once upon a time episodes.

she forced me to go to that school, by the way. sure, i enjoy it now, but the people there suck and i still do not like how she went at it.

that fall, i take my friend to our first convention.since i started watching oneupon a time, i wanted others to watch it, and my one friend agreed to. until the end of the neverland arc.  and peter pan died. no more ouat for her. but, since robbie was going to be there, lets go. she got a picture with him, i got a picture with bex. yayay.

2017.

last week, we experienced the best sunday of our life. a wedding we never really thought would happen. it was unbelievable. emma got her happy ending(or beginning) aand we got ours. it was so thrilling that even my friend who stopped watching in season three was excited. but as much as it was unbeliable the night, the following morning was too.

that was the most giddiest i had ever felt for school. every more we have a forty five minute bus ride and the but whole time i listened to the musical on repeat. but then, as i looked down to pause the music as we pulled into school, i saw my friends text. Jen’s facebook post.

i was in a daze all day.

it wasnt until lunch, the last period since it was a half day, where i just broke down. people asked me what was wrong and i explained as best i could, but shitty people have shitty outlooks on things and they didnt understand. it was the loneliest ive ever felt.

my mom kind of comforted me, telling me how she felt the same when parent hood ended and that ill find a new show ill like just the same, but one upon a time is special. no show can replace or even add onto what kind of mark it had left on me. it was what started my career in wririting and drawing. in someways it kept me alive. and what did people do when i told them this? they laughed.

it was tuesday night when i ran down stairs, telling my mom about convention tickets for colin and jen photo op i found on sale. we had them in mind for awhile, but never got them. she told me wed look into it. we missed the sale.

so here we were, here i was, aall i was able to think about was how id never meet the people who played the characters that shaped me and my future. until the next morning, my birthday, where i was given the tickets.

and today,to night, was pretty much the end of the storybook. im not going to go into it because i have it on a post from about an hour ago. but thank you everyone, for helping me be me. and thank you for this blessed oppurtuniy, in which i had never and will never take for granted, to be a part of such a magical communtiy. because of this platform i have aspired my career of writing, drawing, and fulfilling my dreams of being a princess by being able to contact disney about the program.if it wasnt for this damned, beautiful fucking shwow, i would probably bedrastically different. this story we created is timeless, a neverending fairytale in both real life and on screen. the story contiues for ever and ever in our hearts and writing and drawing and all of the incredible talents we all have.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Another Fairy Tale Template for TD: Snow White (Apple Theory)

Okay Everyone. Today’s post will be quick and, you know, soul-rendingly tragic.

So this comes again from @wdway. She and I have been discussing symbols and hashing things out. We started talking about the apple motif and discussing instances of it. She actually came up with a few I was unfamiliar with. Let’s talk about them.

Season 4:

4x04: Indifference: The one apple reference me and the FB group came up with from S4 is the apple house Carol and Rick go into. In fact, in the past some of us have affectionately referred to it as the “apple house.” 

There is a lot of Beth stuff in that episode. It’s the episode where Daryl tells Bob (BOB) to use the red and green wires to start the minivan. (Battery Theory). Sam and his girlfriend also are a foreshadow for Beth and Daryl in many ways, most notably because they’re on their own without a group and talk about having gotten separated from their group (like Bethyl in 4b). Plus the girl’s leg is messed up. (Beth hurts her ankle.) And the Sam ends up at Terminus (like Daryl) where his girlfriend doesn’t (like Beth). The girlfriend also talks about a greenhouse in the episode with a hole in the roof (kinda like Beth being shot in the head) where there is fruit growing (life) where there really shouldn’t be. See what I mean? It all happens in the apple house.

Season 5:

So here’s a big one: @wdway pointed me toward an interview on YouTube where Scott Eisse interviewed Norman Reedus. Long story short: when he talks about Beth, he calls her an apple to Daryl’s starving man:

“It’s like being lost in the woods for miles and miles and starving and finding an apple tree with an apple on it.”

Now in this interview he also says the thing about Beth being the light at the end of the tunnel and about how Daryl didn’t go into the situation with Beth thinking romance. He was attracted to her goodness but didn’t understand his feelings for her. All of these things are things he’s said many times. And with them, we have him comparing her to an apple. He starts talking about Beth right around minute 8.

5x06: Consumed: On the board behind Carol at the temporary housing, we see this quote: “Now if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to ruin I would still plant my apple tree.”—Martin Luther

Thing is, this is a really positive, optimistic quote. In Consumed, neither C@rol nor Daryl was really in that mindset. But they are looking for Beth in that episode and Carol especially is fighting through her darkness. So it may be ironic in terms of Carol’s arc, or it could indicate Beth. They are searching for her in this episode, after all.

5x11: Aaron talks about apple trees and applesauce. I especially think it’s interesting here that Aaron had an aversion to it. I’ll explain why in a minute.

Also in 5b, we heard them talk about Carol using applesauce in her cookies.

Season 6: 

6x15: East: We saw Richonne eating an apple, and the clock in the room matched the clocks we saw at Slabtown with one hand between the 7 and 8.

Season 7: We’ve seen both Sasha and Maggie eating apples at Hilltop, and then there was the apple pie, so the theme has been present.

So, @wdway’s theory is this:

We’ve seen a lot of classic story and fairy tale templates make appearances in TWD. Hansel and Gretal, Little Red Riding Hood, The Wizard of Oz, Tom Sawyer, Beauty and the Beast, to name a few.

But what fairy tale is most associated with apples? That would Snow White, right? The poisoned apple? 

And what does that poisoned apple do when our sweet, kind heroine eats it? It puts her, basically, into a coma. And no one knows how to wake her up. All her friends assume she is dead. Interestingly, Snow White isn’t even buried traditionally. They put her in a coffin, true, but it’s a coffin of glass. (Kinda like car windows maybe?) because her beauty remains. That is, of course, because she isn’t really dead. *coughs Beth* And what wakes Snow White up? That would be true loves first kiss. All together now: Awww.

Think of it this way:

Snow White (Beth) falls into a coma (after Coda) because of an evil witch (Dawn) and is then presumed dead.

Holy Freak, Guys! So AFTER writing up this theory, I was looking online for a random pic of Snow White and the poisoned apple (I settled on the one above) and look what I found! This is insane:

Forget Beauty and the Beast. Beth is Snow White!

So will Daryl wake Beth up with a kiss? Probably not in the way you’re thinking, but here’s where you’re gonna get the major feels. This is @wdway's head canon, and I have actually shared it in the past, but I’ve just never linked it to Snow White.

So we’ve all discussed at length how, at the suggestion of leaving Beth’s body behind, Daryl probably went ape shit. But especially if they were planning to come back and bury her later, he would have seen the necessity in leaving her so they could run from the walker horde and live. But I’ve always figured that when he placed her in the car, it would be really heart wrenching. Obviously he would cry, maybe kiss Beth’s forehead, say something tragic. Stuff that’ll leave us all sobbing for days.

But connect that now with the Snow White template. @wdway wonders if we’ll see Daryl kiss Beth, just on the forehead or something, and then when they leave her there and all take off, we’ll see her eyes flutter. So his kiss would literally have awakened her then.

Yeah. If that happens I’m gonna be a puddle on the floor. Forever!

It would do two things for us (besides the feels, I mean). It would make the apple symbolism very clear.

(Oh, remember what I said about Aaron. He does function as a proxy of Beth from time to time. He did so in 5b when he was out with Daryl and then again with Rick at the houseboat in 7x08. So I think it’s interesting that he “hated” applesauce. It almost feels like the writers having fun with it. Because Snow White eats a poisoned apple, Aaron, her proxy, is like, “Ew. Get that away from me.” ;D)

The second thing it would do is establish that Daryl is Beth’s true love. Because Snow White can ONLY be awakened by her true love.

And of course this is totally a head canon. Complete conjecture. But given all the apple symbolism we’ve seen, the Snow White template really could be a thing and if that’s the case, even if doesn’t play out as I’ve outlined above, it may still play out in a Snow-White-ish kind of way. Just saying.