#ai talks and0r

[dasakuryo]

maarva: *dies* [and the show wants to make me believe she’s some sort of martyr]

me, knowing fully well this woman kidnapped cassian as a child, severed all his meaningful relationships, separated him from his sister, talked down and belittled him at every available opportunity, and later unceremoniously abandoned him because all of a sudden she cared about rebelling against the empire, hence hurting him even further after piling nothing but trauma upon trauma on his shoulders:

[dasakuryo]

not to be like ¿pero saben qué es lo que más me emputa? but I cannot believe they chose to make Maarva a fucking martyr and NEVER addressed the fact she literally kidnapped Cassian, and all the trauma that caused him.

[dasakuryo]

What are your thoughts on Andor? Does this Cassian feel consistent with Rogue one to you?

For the sake of brevity, I am going to sum up my feelings about Cassian characterization in And0r with the following: whenever I am watching And0r, I keep wondering who that Cassian-shaped Glup Shitto is, because it surely isn't Cassian Jeron And*r.

(and I am redacting the show's name/character name so this doesn't show up on searches and tags, btw. Don't want anyone who doesn't have any problems with it to come across my rant).

Now that I've made the above clarification, I am honestly mad as hell at what And0r has done to Cassian's characterization. And I don't know what's worse, if people ignoring that Cassian's characterization was butchered in the show, or people twisting whatever backstory crumbs we got in RO and trying to shoehorn them into whatever they did in And0r... it doesn't fit. It doesn't wrap up or complement Cassian's story coherently, it just doesn't.

Another thing that pisses me off to no end about the show is the fact Cassian is basically an afterthought in a show that is supposed to be about HIM. The event that transpire in And0r should be at the service of telling Cassian's story, not the Rebellion's, but instead we got a show in which the titular character is barely the focus.

There are many things that And0r does well and I love the inclusion of those elements (social criticism, political themes, and their connection to RL issues), I won't go into detail about this because many have done so before and they've highlighted how important is that the show puts forward these messages and conversations.

I wish the show had done Cassian justice, instead of using him as an excuse to tell the story of the Rebellion. There are other elements that bug me about the show, chiefly the notion and recurrent theme that Cassian has to be taught to care and how to rebel by a bunch of characters played by gringues/yanquis (which, when analysed in terms of allegories and rl issues doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth, to say the least), particularly when RO established him as a rebel leader and as someone who didn't sit idly by. Like... what happened to SUDDENLY THE REBELLION IS REAL FOR YOU? SOME OF US LIVE IT. I'VE BEEN IN THIS FIGHT SINCE I WAS SIX YEARS OLD. YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO LOST EVERYTHING, SOME OF US JUST DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT (capitals for emphasis).

Apologies for the rambling thoughts, anon. There's a myriad of other things that I don't personally like about And0r when it comes to Cassian's characterization, but all of this kind of sums it all up, I guess. If I feel up to it I may go into more detail tho.

[dasakuryo]

Where are you even getting it from that anyone from Kenari survived? Because all evidence points to the opposite.

So now it's coming on anon into my inbox, I see. Oh, let me see... other from the fact that both Cassian and the sex worker at the brothel mention there was a girl from Kenari there? The fact Cassian hopes she's his sister which implies there is also a chance she isn't, which implies several people from Kenari made it out the planet alive? Or perhaps it's the fact the Empire wants to hunt down any Kenari survivors because they can potentially tell the galaxy what actually went down on Kenari and the atrocities the Empire was responsible of? I don't know take your pick. But sure, there's no evidence that anyone from Kenari survived.

[dasakuryo]

I can deal with cass being quiet and leading people/inspiring people from the shadows because that makes sense with how he is in rogue one. I can handwave some of the choices made for his backstory because they likely wanted diego to play him for the most part instead of having someone else play him for the majority of the first season (possibly bc they were not doing 5 seasons anymore tbh). I can accept that the show did a great job with a lot of things and love so much of it. and I can also pick and choose what I think about as canon lol.

what I cannot accept is some fans acting as if we're crazy for thinking that cassian was being literal and honest when he told jyn that he's been fighting since six. and if any of these fans have talked shit about jyn for running from the Rebellion bc of trauma and are now okay with cass doing the exact same thing -perhaps worse if they literally changed his age to older than 21- frankly I find that to be a little embarrassing lol but that's just me and you'll probably be a lot more mature ai 🤣

The fact some people cannot grasp the fact some of us would be mad and hurt at the fact they chose to retcon the character traits, and little but meaningful backstory, of a rebel leader standing against a dictatorship played by a Latin American man is mind-boggling. There's a reason, actually several ones throughout (LatAm) history, why Cassian resonated so much with so many people, particularly Latin American fans.

[dasakuryo]

ai, i love you for these tags:

Gilroy wanted to tell a story about the rebellion and butchered Cassian's character in the process because let's face it he didn't care about Cassian as a character

because i am SO BITTER about gilroy specifically and the love he receives within the fandom. it's just... you put it perfectly. he doesn't care about cassian as a character and i see it all over the show. thanks for voicing it. ♥️

Aw, Ani 🥺❤️ Thank you so much!

I am BITTER AS HELL that people keep denying Cassian's characterization was retconned (and butchered) in the show. And to add insult to injury, some people act as if anyone pointing that out is delusional. Who is that Cassian-shaped Glup Shitto? because his core traits are nothing like in RO. Cassian is an afterthought in a show that is allegedly about him and I am supposed to thank Gilroy for it? Yeah, no way. Cassian Jeron Andor, selfless rebel, son of Fest and freedom fighter since a very young age, will never stop being canon to me. Y que Gilroy se vaya alv

[dasakuryo]

jj "the first order are n*zis", gareth "I was inspired by world war 2" and lucas "the empire is the british empire" vs tony "I think diego looks like stalin" hello?? 🤢🤮

[dasakuryo]

"fans" are mocking everyone who didn't like the show. people who didn't like some creative choices but still respect the cast and fans of the show don't deserve to be mocked for their valid opinions. it says alot that these "fans" can't even handle people not loving the show as much as them.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's wild how some people seem to be allergic to valid and good faith criticism of the show. I know the bar is already set very low when it comes to Hollywood in general and Disney in particular, but that doesn't mean that everything they do is beyond reproach or criticism just because they are giving us a modicum of representation, or are somewhat addressing certain RL issues.

The way most people online equate valid criticisms of And0r, whether in terms of representation, RL allegories or even canon consistency, with hate is honestly wild. We are criticising and calling attention to these things because we love the SW universe and Cassian as a character, and we actually want all these things to improve and be their best version possible. If we hated or didn't like something we simply wouldn't watch it.

[dasakuryo]

Someone said that because Cassian wasn't adored by his community or didn't inspire them to fight, the show was actually named for Maarva instead of him. That bullshit theory sickens me because I truly hate Maarva. But it's also a huge missed opportunity not to make the character the show is named after the one to rally everyone with a speech and have a more central role. Anyways this show wasted a lot of potential with Cassian and I'm not sure I trust these writers to do better in s2.

Nonnie, I actually felt some of my braincells dying while reading that icy cold take. I feel sorry for you, because you likely stumbled upon it while looking for either Cassian content or And0r content.

Either way, this was supposed to be Cassian's show. I'll never forgive Gilroy for butchering Cassian's characterization and making him an afterthought in his own show, sidelining him at every available opportunity and turning him into an idle bystander (when RO made it clear Cassian was anything but that).

[dasakuryo]

The show didn't address the maarva situation in the greatest way but at least they had clem pointing out taking kassa was a bad idea. somehow the show has more sense than the people hopping on your post to defend what most fans have said was a bad move that the show should've addressed in more depth. the show portrays a lot of real world issues, do these people not realize the "adoption" of children like kassa is one of them too?

Apparently not, nonnie. And let's not ignore the white-saviourism stench of that move, which was never addressed either.

I am still side-eyeing the show for the fact Maarva was never held accountable for all the fucked up things she did to Cassian, and the ways in which she destroyed his world over and over again.

[dasakuryo]

i'm disappointed with mon mothma because i thought she would be a rebel leader. she was one of the few women in IV to VI but the show backpedaled and took away a lot of her agency. despite her forming the rebellion in III with the other senators even before they knew palpatine was evil. it's also sexist that her story had to revolve her family problems when then movies never hint to that being an issue for her.

I'm not a big Mothma fan, tbh, chiefly because of the way recent itinerations have tried to uplift Mothma by shitting on Saw Gerrera, even to the degree of arguing Mothma has the moral high ground... and even though I care little for her character, even for me it was blatantly obvious that the show did her dirty as well. Second everything you said.

Btw, I may dislike Mothma as a character but Genevieve O'Reilly has my heart. Truly an iconic woman!

[dasakuryo]

I’m a bit sad that Cassian left Bix in the end because it feels like there’s no more hope for their romance and he moved on, but only cares about her as a friend now (which is also beautiful). And even before that, their romance already felt so broken with the “on again off again” stuff, it’s like the writers purposely wanted it do be failed, which is upsetting. But I hope he has a good love interest in season 2, preferably a latina and not some white girl :P

Perhaps it's me being raised by telenovelas 😂 but I don't necessarily see the way they part as incompatible with a future relationship, but perhaps that's just me 😜 of course, it'd demand certain conversations, personal growth on both their parts, communication, etc but there's definitely still hope for them, at least from where I am standing🤭

[dasakuryo]

What’s your opinion on the relationship between Bix and Cassian in the show?

It could have been handled better, though I like some aspects of the way it was portrayed. TBH, Bix could have been given more agency, as well as screen time, and the story could have paid homage to Latin American women's history of resistance through her, but alas I guess I was asking too much of Andor. Still, I love their friendship, as well as their past and potential romantic relationship. I hope we see more of Bix in season 2 and that Cassian is given a Latina as a LI (and yeah, by that I mean Bix).

[dasakuryo]

I still have hope for Bix/Cass too! And I feel she was still alive by the time of Rogue One and he did all of that thinking about her and wondering how it would feel to have her by his side on his final moments :( nothing compares to a first love

nonnie, why would you say that?? 😭😭😭💔💔💔💔

[dasakuryo]

Hey Ai! I just wanted do know how do you feel about And0r and the Cassian retcons because I see that many people that have been his fans for years didn’t like his characterization (I’m one of them lol). I understand if you don’t want to say much since people who got in the fandom in the past months are over sensitive about any valid criticism of the show but i’d like to hear your thoughts!

Hi nonnie! And precisely, I am one of those people lol I've been a Cassian fan for years and I didn't like his characterization in the show in the slightest. I've actually voiced some of my (many) criticism of the show, particularly Cassian's characterization, you can browse through my ai talks and0r tag to check those rants 😂 My heart goes out to you, nonnie, because I'm pretty sure from your message that you've experienced some nonsense yourself for having completely valid criticism of the show.