#also basing infantilisation on what people are CAPABLE OF that's sooooo fucked up

[suncaptor]

Also I just think it's fundamentally ableist to assume whether or not someone is a child or not and deserves to be infantilised based on their degree of neurodevelopmental capability to do things such as walk or talk. to be real.

[trans-androgyne]

I'm so sick of this. Trans men could be fucking like "lets have a discussion about unsavory attitudes or actions within queer communities when it comes to gender" and a bunch of fucking people INCLUDING OTHER TRANS MASCS are like "wooooooow cant believe youre attacking TRANS WOMEN like that this is obviously bigotry. after all theyve been through?? I am going to assume this mild criticism is about trans women (which you never said it was at all even once) and THEN tell you that because transphobia exists any disagreement with a trans woman means you want her to be HARASSED. I can't believe you think harassment is okay. also even though trans women are poor victims (I am speaking on behalf of all trans women) who you arent allowed say anything in opposition to (I think trans women are defenseless and attack people based on the idea that any criticism is trying to ruin their lives) (don't you know its impossible for a trans woman to ever be treated with respect or have a good life ever and in fact they are all doomed to being treated horribly?) (this is me HELPING trans women by the way I'm an ALLY) and trans men are the problem and somehow even though we're all in the same community Poor Trans Women are so oppressed they would be RUINED by disagreements (I am speaking on behalf of every trans woman and I know not a single one wants to have an interesting discussion about oppression or gender) this is me being an ally btw I could never be transmisogynistic by talking like this. also somehow transphobes check what type of trans you are, if youre a trans woman they hate you and if youre a trans man they say "yay you're a man" and treat you wonderfully because if youre a man youre always treated well no matter what other types of oppression you might face I think of this as being progressive.

Sorry for the long rant(?) I have a lot of thoughts. In summary: some people see themselves as such trans woman defenders that they a hundred percent loop around to infantilising them by implying its too hurtful to have a conversation. I've seen this exact type of behaviour as a trans man when it comes to misgendering. someone slips up and instead of being like "oops I mean he" they go some equivalent of "oh my gosh im sooooo sorry i cant believe I did that to you you probably feel miserable have I ruined your day oh my goodness dont cry ill make it up to you I know you have now become an emotional wreck from the horrible thing I did to you im sorry im sorry im sorry I just need to make sure everybody can hear how HURT you are by one misgendering" this is an example of how "being an ally" loops around to calling you fragile and a literal baby. They make it worse even though theyre "on your side" by implying you cant handle anything and they have to "fix it" because you just would collapse immediately at something maybe affecting you.

On the one hand, I understand where a lot of this is coming from. Trans women do get harassment campaigns started against them for small issues. It’s best not to resolve real problems with specific transfems in a public forum. So many have described the feeling of transmisogynistic hypervisibility as a panopticon and that very much applies in these discussions.

But trans women also aren’t made of glass. And they aren’t immune from making mistakes and causing harm. Making posts that contradict some trans women’s understandings of transmasc oppression is not transmisogyny. Pointing out that something they said or did was hurtful or transphobic is not transmisogyny. People act like this is how you treat trans women with respect and it’s very much not. This is not being “normal” about trans women. They are human beings who yes need some extra care and protection but are also capable of talking things out instead of collapsing into dust at the first sign of criticism. I know not all trans women like being treated this way in the slightest. I hope we’ll be able to find ways in the community to still uplift their voices and mitigate harm done to them without putting them on a high pedestal or shielding them from all criticism and intracommunity discussion that does not go their way.