#also just not a fan of the whole trope for characters esp when in reality thats just a façade and they re helpless

[myrfing]

Poyo o/ your recent posts and tags about elidi reminds me of something I've been wanting to ask about, though idk what do I want to ask about specifically lol.

I know from our previous interactions and some previous tags that you don't quite see eye to eye with most ppl regarding elidi, and I feel similar, though I think I chalk that up to being with 14 for far less time than most people (esp asc/ancients fans), and while I've never hated Elidi, I only started loving him as I currently do after getting to panda.

I guess the first thing I want to ask is, how do you read his sending the WoL to the past? People understandably are upset that he had to do it, but the more upset people see this as redemption through death (which I know is a beloathed trope lately). But I never saw his last actions as redemption--i don't think he ever needed redemption in the first place. He was a sacrificial lamb, saddled with a job that was never going to be fulfilled on his own and he is passing the hope he was entrusted with to the WoL ...

YEAH I HAVE NO…I don’t see it as anything to do with redemption either? Just a like, well this is what remains sort of thing. I don’t necessarily think he means to pass us a torch or reconcile with us either, it’s just an…answer I guess? He spent the entirety of his uhhhh swan song very confused and spiraling incredibly hard and we never got an answer as to what the promise he made was or why he had gone with being zodiark’s heart or what exactly lead to this point and I don’t think it’s weird that he, after we return his memories to him, understood something and wanted the person he opposed to the end to see too.

Elidibus is my favorite ascian AS A PREFACE like there were a good few months in postshb pre 5.2 where I for some reason just was er obsessed with him because I thought he was. funny and cute really, but the fact that I loved him changed nothing about what I thought of the ascians as a whole, so sometimes I sound like I’m very harsh on/hate him. (robot voice) I see no mercy when I see him but I like him. I DOOO think some aspects of his writing are silly and contrived (and this made him more funny and amusing to me) but overall i was and still am very very very happy with his character direction cus I was playing with the idea that he was in reality a pathetic, vulnerable, desperate person under the weight of whatever the ascians were doing, defined by the praise and expectations of people long dead, & wanted to see him break down and lose it when he got cornered which is exactly what happened LMFAOOO. I also thought he did have some sort of…pure and sincere wholehearted bravery/nobility under all that, like a hint of who he was before he got hollowed out, that I wanted to see in the end too and I GOT ITTT with THE SEAT OF SACRIFICE THE BEST TRIAL IN THE GAME. YEAH i love the fact he was a sacrificial lamb and while it absolves him of little at the point of the current day imo he’s a person who in my pov never got to live out his youth and also was the tipping point in which ancient society made a choice that corrupted them irrevocably and I loved thinking of a character who had nothing but that empty guilt and meaningless duty to carry on, that he was in a way made to not have a sense of self. I recall most of the fanbase thought back then he was a sadistic and cunning mastermind, and a lot of people were really unhappy with 5.3 as a result, so the somewhat inconsistent autonomy of his decision to send us back might be them jumping back to that and being like oh so NOW that he was sealed in a crystal he suddenly wants to shake hands. and while I don’t think it’s exactly right to be like well he was a young blameless victim of all of this I think a huge thing wrt the end of shb was just like this particular fight is over and everyone gets to go home and stop worrying about their burdens and obligations and the need to say you are my enemy and who deserves what and all that. like he dead bro.

i dont think “elidibus” can be, should be, needs, wants, or will be redeemed, it’s just not relevant to him anymore. i honestly think he stopped having a future a very long time ago and was waiting for him to combust the entire time so I’m not sitting here waiting for the writers to “do more” with him or anything and honestly I think that’s unnecessary. this is just *gestures vaguely* the ruin for him. like if they spend MORE time on ancient shit post ew I probably would be annoyed

[divinemanicstate]

hi im new here and i just wanna ask: you mentioned not liking yun-jin in your pinned post, is there any reason in particular? im just curious but you dont have to answer!

hi anon, welcome!

i prefer not discussing my dislike for certain dbd characters since i dont want to hurt any feelings

however, in short - i dont like her personality

[cisthoughtcrime]

just watched the latest Westworld episode (s3e5) and want to braindump some thoughts about this season as I continue to procrastinate, so spoilers under the divide. if any of y’all watch westworld, would be interested to hear your thoughts too.

ok gonna try to keep this short and not overcritical but probably gonna fail on both counts.

I’m still definitely enjoying watching it and I’m likely gonna keep going until it ends, but it doesn’t feel like it’s the same show anymore so much as a spin-off. At first i thought it was just the fact that so little of it is taking place inside the park and the cast has been decimated, but this episode made me realise that s3 has been so unoriginal compared to the original premise. (again: still enjoying it, still watching on it, not shitting on it for the sake of a superiority trip. There are a lot of derivative shows I really enjoy but Westworld isn’t usually one of them).

the original premise’s underlying subject was subtle and existential and imho was very good about laying out the ingredients for the viewer to draw their own conclusions about what the show was trying to say (from the big philosophical questions like “what is humanity/consciousness/free will anyway?” to the implicit societal critiques like “morality is performative and when no one’s looking humans act different”).

I think what’s bugging me about s3 is that we finally broke out of westworld and we’re in a futurescape i’ve seen a thousand times before in scifi.

The downtrodden ‘different’ (white male) outcast disillusioned with The System and omnipresent surveillance who meets the sexy motorcycle-wearing black-leather-clad badass woman who saves him from his mediocrity and validates his disillusionment and recruits him to help dismantle the system and free the sheeple? Check.

The reclusive European gazillionaire who owns an island, has a seemingly-self-contained tragic backstory that will no doubt have one or two vestigial elements that come into play at pertinent times to blindside the audience and/or main character, and espouses his dream of a utopia derived from his trauma but that isn’t really a utopia? Check.

Everything is automated but people are still empty inside so everything the rich do to poke their ennui with a stick is the same ol’ combination of colourful hypersexualisation/orgies/prostitutes, sadism, and synthetically-made drugs that do whatever tf the writers think will play best visually while brushing off the chemistry of it all with whatever the newest version of ‘flux capacitor’ is? Check.

That’s not to say these tropes are all necessarily scorched earth. I mean, worked for The Matrix and Altered Carbon and whatever. I’m gonna try to wrap this up by synthesising what it is that actually bugs me about this in Westworld S3 specifically:

i said earlier that previously Westworld was good about talking around the core concepts and plot, leaving us to infer the patterns and parallels (which tbh is kinda what i credited for the show’s popularity, ie the fact that there was so much to discuss and so many connections for the audience to make in such a creative world of philosophical and moral questions that ofc people would latch onto it and hypothesise wildly). But eg in this episode, when Dolores sends everyone their profiles, the human-host parallels spoke for themselves and seeing people’s reactions in the streets reinforced so much (base human nature, free will, the validity of the hosts’ emotional reactions, flawed attempts to standardise reality at the expense of individuality) but Bernard softballs it in with “they’re breaking their loops,” which hamhandedly shoves the “ooooooo humans have been the automated drones all along, that’s wack man” down our throats as if that hadn’t been a staple of speculative fiction since before Aldous Huxley and as if it weren’t the sort of blatantly fucking obvious thing you or the person watching with you would gasp aloud after a twist or reveal. Not saying I disagree with the criticism of complacent routine, it’s just... we get it already and we got it since whatever grade school essay we had to write on Orwell or The Giver, no? There’s also the “human over-reliance on tech” critique which has been there since S1, but until now it was kinda baked into the background of the main satirisation of hubris in the face of mortality and self-knowledge; now ‘human over-reliance on tech” is the exact weakness that the show keeps overexplaining has opened the door to human extinction.

sidenote: twice so far they’ve alluded to the human ‘real world’ being a simulation (Maeve in War World and Liam’s stoned friend on that rooftop bar), so if this season’s big twist is that the real world is just one of the ziptillion simulations run by the Serac’s machine I might just stop watching and pretend it ended after s1, esp if part of the twist is that Dolores or Maeve somehow merge themselves into the fabric of the simulation/become one with it. don’t even get me started on if serac is a host bc what a cop-out that would be.

I’m setting aside some of my other issues with the show to focus on how weirdly narrowed/streamlined/hemmed-in this season has been. i really want to like caleb but ffs his whole arc so far is simultaneously far too recognisable and far too self-insert-gratifying when the only new thing added to his stock character is the fact that Aaron Paul is playing him now instead of Sam Worthington or Jake Gyllenhall or whichever from the parade of recognisable-action-actors who are Misunderstood and Pouty until sexy miss unreadable fulfills his call-to-adventure fantasy complete with kiss/sex either during or immediately after a big fight scene.

Now that the rich intriguing world we started in has been largely explained and almost entirely killed off, we’re left with loyalty to a few fave characters in this (admittedly aesthetically pleasing and coherent, but still) standard vision of the future, where we already know Dolores’s story and motives and are kinda waiting for Caleb to catch up, and the only questions left really are kinda linear by Westworld standards (what’s Dolores’s plan, what’s gonna happen to each of the characters, like basic unanswered questions in any plot), and they keep recycling the same plot points (’oh they’re a host too?’ or ‘this host can’t trust their own thoughts/memories/actions because they’ve been damaged or tampered with’ but now kinda cheapened bc the setting is different and no one in the show expects them to be hosts but everyone in the audience does).

TLDR

There is nothing special or specific about this future-world that connects it to Westworld. A futuristic theme park of hyperrealistic humanoid AIs designed to facilitate the consequence-free catharsis of the stunted rich elite could be transplanted into any technologically-advanced future where extreme wealth-disparity and omni-surveillance are still problems, but that describes basically every scifi show that isn’t about space or apocalypse. But that’s part of what made the park such a strong concept, and also why i expected/wanted them to have come up with a more original outside world. If the park can fit anywhere, why did they choose such an uninspired world? It just feels like these creative interesting characters left this creative interesting world, took a wrong turn at Albequerque, and ended up in an extra-preachy Black Mirror fan script.

and again: i don’t hate this season, i’m still watching and enjoying, but i’m really disappointed by the reveal of this world.

[mikeshanlon]

iwwv anon and PHEW OK. I def did not expect that essay and now I feel bad cause I KNOW my thots r not gonna be articulate or right. nonetheless! i think Oliver does qualify as an unreliable narrator cause hes. very oblivious but not like... Richard papen (who is a whole ass clown don't get me started on tsh) but not like addy from dare me(I will support till the day I die that dare me is da like I WILL die on this hill) who sees what she wants to see. 1/?

i think he just... thinks that his friends r diff ppl than they actually r? that doesnt rly make sense but yea. what I mean is that everything the characters do is coated in that empathetic view Oliver has which is usually wrong? so we don't get an objective look into the characters. meredith is my girl like I love the hot popular girl trope deconstruction but at the end of the book she's not at a great place like she's w someone that doesn't love her like she needs to be loved... 2/

I guess the most probable ending is that James never meets Oliver again and that everyone is kinda stuck on what happened but that's soo sad and I really don't want to think abt it. ngl iwwv wasn't like my fave book ever and I really don't understand why people are so obsessed with dark academia sometimes but what i rly liked abt the book is that despite how fucked up everyone is and how toxic they r to each other they do at heart care abt one another...3/

like I rly liked that esp cause at that point the only other da book (other than dare me!) that I had read was tsh and godd every character is so fuckinh annoying and they all hate each other. i was super confused by it till I saw someone saying that it's satire and I felt my mind explode. I feel like this is so long but I didnt rly properly answer all you wrote sorry! I think its a pretty good book tho it has some crazy quotes like hold awn Im gonna look at the highlighted stuff on my copy.. 4/

Were you in love with him?” “Yes,” [...]Yes, I was.” It’s not the whole truth. The whole truth is, I’m in love with him still. LIKEEE PHEWW OK OK OK. WE OUT HERE. that line literally made me go crazy. I'm so sorry for any spelling mistakes or like general mistakes I made here English isn't my first language, it's 1am and I wrote this in the notes app w/o looking it over. so like.. NOT a professional review lemme tell you. 5/5

 Ahh im so sorry I did not see this before I yeeted for a month!!!

Oooh okay first of all dare me as a DA… I’ve only watched the show but like yeah I see the Elements for sure.

Also yeah I can understand what you mean abt Oliver being an unreliable narrator now… Ig my view of unreliable was more like they are purposefully twisting the truth or omitting facts or just literally don’t know shit but I get how personal bias can make the narrator unreliable. I do think the assertion that Oliver thinks his friends are different than they actually are makes sense. He sees James in a very positive light and though I like James a lot and think he is better than, like, Richard, he definitely has darker moments and manipulates Oliver at times (again I’d like to think it’s not the most nefarious thing in the world but like him just being shitty bc he’s in a dark place and he one, wants to do anything he can so Oliver doesn’t figure out he fought Richard so Oliver still thinks of him the same way/bc he knows Oliver would do something stupid like get himself arrested for James; and two, is very jealous that Oliver is with Meredith after Richard dies and has sort of a somewhat positive outcome from Richard’s death versus James being riddled with guilt and anger). And yeah, the probable ending is they never meet but I refuse to acknowledge that so LGNRG. Also that line makes me go CRAZZZZZZZZZZY!!! There are so many great lines, both using Shakespeare and on their own and its like okay give me a moment im going bonkers…

Personally, I haven’t read that many dark academia novels yet (bc for some reason i can barely finish a book rn sigh) but the concept interests me. I think what’s compelling is the setting/atmosphere of like ~mysterious college vibes~, and the idea of a sort of niche, obsessive bond and pursuit of knowledge with a tight knit group of friends (and the like inherent homoeroticism in every single DA elrngenrg). Like Dead Poet’s Society (the film I haven’t read the book) isn’t Dark in the same way most other dark academia is by like, obsession and death and manipulation (though of course there are dark elements with Neil’s storyline), but I think the other building blocks of academia are present there in a more wholesome way and you can see why people are drawn to that idea. As for the more Dark aspects I think it’s interesting to analyze things like group psyche, obsession, manipulation, etc, like what went wrong for everything to take such a dark turn???

 But, like everything else, it really has to be done well or else its just like okay….… I’ve tried to read TSH twice and I may try again but from the 100+ ish pages I read I totally get what you mean. IWWV is so interesting to me bc the characters are all very compelling and multifaceted and I like that they are a close friendship, we come in after 4 years of them spending all the time together and to me that is apparent. Like you said, we can see fissures and problems especially as the novel continues but there is care there between them. That also makes the decision to let Richard die much more interesting and sinister imo, as well as how all of them interact with each other after he dies, and how the roles of the group change without their “leader” so to speak. Also, maybe it’s just bc I like Shakespeare, but I think the academia part of IWWV is so much more accessible compared to TSH. Like I don’t know every Shakespeare play or anything so I didn’t understand every nuance or was like immediately like oh this is from Cymbeline or whatever the fuck, but you could understand the gist of things and it made sense that they spoke in Shakespeare lines bc that’s all they’ve been doing for four years and also theatre kids are Like That. Their pretention also provided any Layers to the story, like the parallels between the characters they play and their own arcs, how some of the lines echoed their own thots, foreshadowed, or they were able to say things through Shakespeare (I’m thinking of like, Oliver realized he loved James during Romeo and Juliet, the foreshadowing that James was going to ruin Richard’s life and that he dislikes Meredith/Richard when he quotes Mercutio at the start “A plague o’ both your houses”, the exchange Oliver and James had onstage and had that kiss during King Lear before Oliver was arrested,etc.) (Also I think the structure of some of the dialogue being formatted like a play really helped make it feel more realistic and immersive). Versus TSH which is just so pedantic and dense and hard to follow at times im like I get they are smart but what??? And maybe that’s part of the satire aspect (or maybe im dumb) but like donna I read TGF I know you are pretentious and info dump abt random obscure shit anyways so erglknerg. Like to me there was a Point to all of the academic Shakespeare stuff in IWWV and it was the soul of the book, and M.L. Rio made it very interesting—like the way that the directors reimagined the plays and had Julius Caesar be like a modern political play, the cool mirror shit in King Lear, the Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet performances where they did them at events and interacted with their environments (which were one of my favorite parts of the books bc I just think that concept is so interesting), etc. For TSH the shit they did literally just felt like “okay look at them they’re smart see you can’t even keep up!” like okay… I felt lost a lot and only like snapped into reality whenever Henry (?) was like oh… murder….. and even then I was like idk what this dude is saying but like he’s being darksided LMAO. And I also agree that it’s just like… Richard being thrown in the middle of this group could lend itself to some cool ideas but its hard to believe that he fits into the friendship group and hes just like hell yeah I love Greek so much and lets go kill this guy other than like okay ur gay and stupid and just want to impress Henry or whatever his name was (which he was but I digress). It’s just not as impactful to me as this close friend group falling apart. Ik TSH fans might be angry if they see this (and of course I haven’t finished the book so my perception may be warped but I also kno many ppl felt that way u did) bc I’ve seen ppl say IWWV is just like TSH but “lackluster” or whatever and while I can see some parallels (mostly b/w Richard and Henry and Alexander and Francis), I really think M.L. Rio expanded upon common DA tropes and the interesting parts of TSH but made it her own and interesting and oh yeah there are actually multiple compelling female characters and LGBT characters (and no incest)!!!

[serenagaywaterford]

Cate fan here. Cate and Elise explained the focus on Sofie in The Guardian, and in the ABC article that asks "why is the cast so white" where they call Sofie as their "trojan horse". We fully trust Cate in handling this passion project, especially as she and Andrew, her husband, have experience with working on issues concerning refugees. This series also has the support of Rau's sister and the UNHCR. I believe they picked the best of all approaches given this project's long development period.

Good for you. “We fully trust”??? Wtf dude. Who’s “we”? Some Blanchett hivemind?Glad you PERSONALLY fully trust some actor you don’t even know (who names her son after a convicted paedophile, or just jokes about it. *shrug*). I don’t. Nor should I have to.

Why do I get messages like this every fucking time I post my own stupid opinions on this show?

Look, I am not a Cate Blanchett stan. And I especially don’t think everything any actor does is immediately blessed by God and can never, ever be criticized or have weaknesses. I literally said I am going to be patient and see how this show turns out. And me saying Sofie’s story is the least interesting is ONCE AGAIN not stating it is shit and should be erased! You people take everything so black and white. 

Here is a lesson for fans: not everything is an “all or nothing” situation. When I say Yvonne isn’t a great dancer, I am not saying she is fucking terrible and should never dance–which seems to be exactly what the lot of you heard last week based on the responses I got. I just said she isn’t the best ever at something that isn’t even her fucking job! FFS. I love Yvonne as an actress and think she’s absolutely fantastic, in Stateless and other shows. But that doesn’t mean I have to say she’s fucking fantastic at absolutely everything ever or else I lose my “cool fan” points. I don’t give a flying fuck what other people think about how much of a “true fan” I am.This week I say Sofie’s story is the least engaging and I get this random shit about how great Cate Blanchett is(?) and how Sofie is some “Trojan horse”. That doesn’t even make sense!!! Have any of you (them) actually read the Iliad? Being a Trojan horse isn’t a GOOD thing. Unless I guess you’re Achilles, lol. Generally speaking, it’s this: “Something that initially seems innocuous but is ultimately bad or malicious.” Maybe be more careful with words, lmao. I think maybe they meant “conduit”, or something similar. Unless they are actually insinuating that Sofie makes everything way worse for the detainees and is part of the problem. No, they mean she’s a trigger for recognition that something is very wrong in these places and she “brings down” the system–which is all idealistic, revisionist bullshit. Cos while Rau’s story made some big waves, it didn’t stop anything. Sure, SHE got out and so did the Palmer report, which changed some aspects of detention, esp for Australian citizens... And it unearthed like 200 other cases similarly brutal, like Vivian Solon. 

“In politics, the precise relationship between cause and effect is usually unclear. Some of the things that happened in the six months following the release of Cornelia Rau would certainly have happened anyway. Some, most likely, would not. What is clear, however, is that the case of Cornelia Rau shaped public opinion about the treatment of asylum seekers in a way no previous episode had. The Cornelia Rau affair taught the public that the lazy trust it had placed in government – not to inflict on innocents serious harm – was unwarranted. It was able to do this, as almost everyone immediately understood, because the person who had suffered false imprisonment and neglect was not a swarthy, dark-skinned, Islamic outsider. She was “one of us”. If, in February 2005, it had been discovered that a mentally ill Australian woman of Iranian descent had been wrongfully imprisoned, the transformative effect on public opinion would almost certainly have been immeasurably less.”

But activists and doctors are STILL fighting the Australian government over conditions and the mental health concerns of current detainees. Which is what I assume Blanchett and co. are trying to inspire reaction to? Which is a good thing and absolutely nobody is saying it’s not. I am not saying: “Sofie fucking sucks! This whole show is garbage and doesn’t have any compassion for the refugee crisis! Kill her off and just focus on everyone else!” I am saying, of all the stories, hers is the least interesting and the least relevant to the issue of detention camps at this moment (in the show, in history). Obviously. I don’t even understand why this opinion bothers people??? Like, it’s just objectively true that it’s the least relevant to the real crisis and plight of actual refugees jailed in these prisons for years on end. The Rau case happened 15 YEARS AGO. The problem right now is not what happened to her, it’s what’s continuing to happen in other centers--currently.And if you want to talk seriously about mental health issues of detainees in a fictional sense, using a character who IS ALREADY MENTALLY ILL to highlight how these refugees end up suffering serious, chronic, and sometimes fatal mental illnesses is not the best way to do it. Like, jfc, it’s just… okay, I will need 50 pages to explain why this is not the best approach if you really want to talk about mental health in detention centres. You can’t use a rich white girl who had a devastating pre-existing illness that caused her to BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE as your mascot for “Look, how terrible this place is! Everyone goes crazy!” She was already fucked up, she was already so, so, so vulnerable, and this made it a million times worse. The stories that are important are the healthy, perfectly capable refugees from war-torn countries that end up there for NO reason and gradually through constant imprisonment, abuse, neglect, isolation, lack of privacy, and stress DEVELOP illness, and it goes unnoticed and untreated until you have a prison full of broken people, especially children who are trying to kill themselves. And a lot of this is due to the guards and government employees who are actively awful, or merely wilfully blind.

So, excuse me, for stating that SOFIE isn’t the most important character to focus on, or the most interesting. All Sofie’s story does is highlight how oblivious the guards/officials/etc is to the mental welfare of their prisoners, and the inherent problems with the system. Which, yes, is important to a degree but if you can’t get people to care about refugees without insisting the story revolve around a white person… I just… I dunno what to tell you.

Oh, wait, am I stepping on the precious toes of Cate and Yvonne stans? Whatever. Boo hoo. I don’t care. If you’re gonna make a show about such serious issues (including the portrayal of mental illness based on someone’s ACTUAL LIFE!!!), be prepared for people to get critical about the lack of nuance and sensitivity, and the use of TV tropes. And how fucking WHITE-FOCUSED it is. Because, guess what–if it wasn’t and if Cate/Yvonne/Jai/Asher wasn’t in it–you all wouldn’t even be watching this. How about we all just admit that? It has so much attention not because of the story or the issues (that I assume Blanchett wanted to address), but because of the cast and the focus on the white people.

I do not care how much a massively privileged, white, Hollywood star has worked with refugees. That doesn’t absolve them from having bias, making poor decisions, or falling prey to tropes in their film-making. They are HUMAN BEINGS, an especially human beings that live in a very strange otherword of celebrity, constant validation, narcissism, and money. So much money. They can seem like the most grounded people ever but they are not. Anybody who’s spent even 10 minutes in Hollywood knows this. It’s a thick BUBBLE completely detached from the real world we all live in. So, quit acting like these ACTORS are suddenly experts on foreign policy, immigration, governmental processes, politics, law, sociology, economics, mental health, and whatever else. Especially not bigger experts than critics who have spent their whole lives involved in these issues. (I’m not talking about me. I’m a biologist lol.) She is producing a FICTIONAL TV SHOW to raise… awareness? I guess? To me, as of right now, it’s just using “Sofie’s” real story and vaguely touching on some of the issues. And without all that much depth either. Yet.And pardon me if I don’t really care for Rau’s SISTER’S support of the show. It’s not her sister’s story to tell. Sorry. This is about Cornelia herself. (Yes, I have read Rau’s article.) And OF COURSE the UNHCR is supportive. They are supportive of anything that helps raise awareness in a positive way. And, PLEASE NOTE: I once again never said this was a shit show that needs to be cancelled cos it sucks so bad. It does serve a purpose but I have issues with the NARRATIVE STYLE AND DECISIONS they’re making in order to do that. It has nothing to do with the actual issues.Yet. Like, I’ve said a million times and nobody seems to hear, YET. It’s only 2 episodes in and it has plenty of time to get really into the deep issues. They’ve only just brushed over them right now, so I’m happily waiting for the big pay off.

But let’s not all act like this is the first ever attempt to bring awareness of this humanitarian crisis to mainstream Australians and Blanchett is some sort of national refugee activist hero. Like I’ve said before Safe Harbour (in terms of (sometimes soapy) fiction) and Chasing Asylum (in terms of documentary) and even Go Back To Where You Came From (lol reality tv) have all attempted this, and with some stellar results. Go watch any of those and tell me what Stateless is doing that is so amazingly unique and affective. Stateless is just bringing big Hollywood names to the issue, and trying to bring awareness. AND, amazingly, guess what! It doesn’t even have to be a GOOD show to do that. It can be mediocre and still reach the people Blanchett & Co. clearly want to reach and get people thinking. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And me criticising little bits of the programme (like Yvonne’s dancing/accent/choice to have her speaking English all the time, or the lack of focus on actual refugee stories, ffs) is not me saying the whole thing is boring, useless garbage and a waste of time. So, y’all need to hop off my dick for two seconds and not just assume that me talking about my opinion of its small weaknesses is saying I hope your faves choke. Gimme a break. And just in case you all are still pissed off about my complaints that Sofie’s story isn’t the most important focus ever, I’ll just dump a few links here:

‘Begging to die’: succession of critically ill children moved off Nauru

Australia: Reverse Cruel Refugee Policy

'Australia is a bigger cage’: the ongoing trauma of Nauru’s child refugees

How Australia turned its back on the world’s refugee crisis

Mental health crisis in Australia’s refugee camps

The mental health of asylum seekers in Australia and the role of psychiatrists

Christmas Island detention centre’s conditions stoke tension, detainee says

Australia blocks asylum seekers held offshore from seeking medical care in the country

Nauru: MSF report shows disastrous mental health impact of Australian refugee policy

‘Someone needs to say, enough’: Mental health on Manus Island

Nauru asylum seekers’ mental health as bad as torture victims, doctors say

Nauru detention centre: Abuse and trauma reports leaked

Australia’s man-made crisis on Nauru: Breaking Women

The Nauru files: cache of 2,000 leaked reports reveal scale of abuse of children in Australian offshore detention

Australia: Appalling Abuse, Neglect of Refugees on Nauru

Australia to reopen Christmas Island detention center after defeat on refugee policy

UN body says Australia breached human rights laws and needs to review Migration Act

And yes, most of these are offshore centres (some of which have effectively closed now), but it’s not even counting the ones actually in Australia itself, many of which are still operational: List of Australian immigration detention facilities

And yeah… The unknown story of Cornelia Rau. Just as a reality check of what Sofie’s story is meant to be. It’s absolutely horrifying, devastating and incredibly sad, and not something to be glamourised or sensationalised for woke points. 

So, sorry (NOT SORRY) for saying Rau/Sofie’s story isn’t the most important part of this whole MASSIVELY COMPLEX thing, nor is it even close to the most interesting aspect of the crisis. I do get why they chose her story as a vehicle to unlock the issue for all the other white, middleclass Aussies (and others) watching but I still don’t think it’s the most interesting aspect of the SHOW. That’s all. I’m not saying it’s pointless to tell “Sofie’s” story, or that I don’t like it, or it’s entirely irrelevant. Just it’s not the most important thing to me.

I can’t believe I have to say this again but just so we are all on the same page:

I HAVE NO BIG PROBLEM WITH “STATELESS”. I DON’T HATE IT. IT IS A GOOD, WELL-ACTED, WELL-PRODUCED, ENGAGING, DECENT SHOW THAT IS ATTEMPTING TO TAKE ON A HUGE, COMPLEX ISSUE IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK IT’S ADMIRABLE THAT EVEN MORE ATTENTION IS TRYING TO BE BROUGHT TO THE ISSUE AND GOOD FOR BLANCHETT FOR PUSHING FOR IT. I JUST WANT MORE FOCUS ON THE RELEVANT ISSUES TO THIS TIME PERIOD.

What’s the point in raising awareness and putting heavy focus on something awful that happened 15 years ago and has been resolved (more or less, cos nothing is ever totally resolved in politics)? Let’s focus on the terrible shit that hasn’t been resolved yet. Acting like Sofie’s story would happen today is just so far from reality when you are aware of all the changes made and results of the Rau situation. Any criticisms I have of the show or its actors do not mean I hate the show and think it’s stupid and pointless. Just, if it was my show, I’d do it slightly differently. THAT’S ALL. But it’s not my show and I could never produce TV so don’t get all your knickers’ in a twist over my personal opinions about trivial shit. No need to come into my inbox on a weekly basis and try to school me about Yvonne, Cate, etc. I can have opinions on actors/TV shows, even if you think they’re stupid. If you think my opinions are wildly misinformed on politics/storytelling/etc, that's fair. Maybe they are. Tumblr is certainly not the best platform for me to lay out all my thoughts in a coherent way. But so far I don’t have anybody coming at me about the actual issues, just getting butthurt that I’m not kissing your fave’s ass. (Keep in mind, Yvonne is one of my fav actresses too. I’m just not insanely obsessed with her.)

God. I am turning off anon cos every week now I say anything even remotely, mildly critical of some minor aspect of Stateless I get bombarded with this kind of condescending shit from rabid stans of the actors. If you can’t put your name to it, I’m not interested in your thoughts anymore. Sorry. I’m tired. And my inbox is tired lol.

[halfgap]

This is such a tiny (& likely pointless) quibble that’s been bothering me for a long, long time, way before I got into CR. Basically writers and fandom (esp. recently) are really, really into the whole “found family” or “families of choice” trope, and like. So am I, 100%. But a lot of the thought/language surrounding it -- in all areas of fandom -- tends to veer in a direction that almost always makes me uncomfortable.

Below the cut bc this got rambly & senseless fast lol

Like... it’s sort of this popular fixation on assigning kinship terms to each individual or non-romantic relationship within the “found family” unit. Like, “oh this is the dad of the group, this is the mom, this is the weird uncle, these two are siblings, etc.” And obviously in some cases it’s very appropriate or even comes directly from the writers/characters (which is another issue of its own tbh but.. later). But it bugs me that so many people are so keen on categorizing these relationships through this rigid kinship terminology in the first place. 

(And I know I’m looking at this from a very unfortunately Eurocentric perspective, since there are so many cultures that don’t base their ideas of “kinship” on biology at all and don’t automatically prioritize blood relations as “true” family, which is why my weird specific quibbles on this may be entirely pointless, and I’m open to hearing thoughts. But I also suspect that most of the people participating in this popular trend/habit I’m talking about are coming from a similar cultural perspective as mine...)

Anyway, I can’t really articulate why this has always annoyed me so much other than to say... I feel like people refuse to let the word “friends” just be, and be important & valued? And it’s good that people are re-defining the word “family” so that it can function independent of any blood ties, but this obsession with like, “dad, siblings, the vodka aunt etc” to me still feels strongly tied to the older ideas of kinship through blood & marriage, basically this.. strictly defined family tree sort of deal. If people want to push forward the idea that the platonic bonds we choose & create for ourselves can be just as important or even more important than biological bonds or romantic/sexual ones, then why do we have to insist on these older kinship labels that both implicitly continue to privilege older ideas of family (by people “upgrading” relationships from “friends” to “siblings/parents/etc”) and also bear the same limitations? Like, a great fucking thing about these chosen bonds are that they don’t have to be defined or boxed into any one predetermined social role, they can be amorphous and intense and transcend the language we currently have access to.

Like, when people kept asking Ash and Taliesin on TM if Yasha and Molly considered themselves siblings... That made me uncomfortable, especially after they both conclusively said “no.” Ashley’s made it clear that Molly was the most important person in her life after she left Xhorhas, he’s a soul mate and a friend and a confidant and a buddy but she clarified that Yasha doesn’t see him as “a brother, exactly..” Partly I think it’s because there is a potential dimension of some form of romantic bond within their intense platonic love, but even with that they’d never consider themselves dating or anything like that, either -- or they can also ‘just’ be read as 100% platonic past & present & future, depending on where you’re coming from. Like, it’s ambiguous & amorphous & intense & loving & good, and I like that it defies categorization, I like that the best way to describe them is “they’re very close friends” and that doesn’t mean less than if they were lovers or “adoptive siblings” or whatever. The whole circus was kind of the same way, and Tal even said that Molly didn’t consider any of them a “parental” figure when fans asked about Gustav, but decided that Gustav was the closest to that role if we had to look at things that way. But we don’t!!!!

People also asked several times if Beau and Molly considered themselves siblings -- again, no!!!!! (But I feel like that’s probs bc the cast are also largely used to the idea we get from so much media & stories where a friend/comrade is “upgraded” to a “brother/sister/whatever” after a certain degree of trust/intimacy that Beau and Molly didn’t have yet... but still, I don’t think Beau and Molly ever needed to develop into siblings in the first place!! Ahhhh!!!) Weirdly a funny related example I can think of is that one Community episode when they were like “This study group is like a family!!” but then a lot of hidden trysts and scandals and feelings were discussed/debated, and at the end Jeff admitted that maybe they weren’t like a family, exactly, maybe it was more complicated than that. And it is!!! But that doesn’t mean that group bond matters less than family!!! (Also the ‘wholesome as the family on the Brady Bunch’ -> ‘incestuous & dysfunctional as the cast of the Brady Bunch’ joke is hilarious).

Also!!!! In Leverage when people are so fixated on calling Nate the dad, Sophie the mom, Eliot & Parker & Hardison the kids, or like one weird youtube comment I saw acknowledging how Parker & Hardison are dating, well, now Hardison is just the daughter’s boyfriend!! Like ?????? What? Nate has really dad-like interactions, Sophie sometimes has really mom-like interactions, and I love it all and it’s funny, but they’re not equivalent to a mom & dad. Sophie flirts with Eliot, Nate & Sophie can both be really dumb & competitive with all of the other 3.. Eliot has sibling-like interactions with Hardison and Parker sometimes, and he also has love interest-like reactions, and he also has Best Friend-like interactions, and they’re all good & important & only part of a greater, harder to define whole that forms their bond.

And like, I realize that y’know, ultimately all these words aren’t real, like.. language is constantly evolving because all the ‘meaning’ (denotive & connotative) of these words are something we construct as a society in an effort to best reflect what society perceives as reality/truth... And that probably every individual gets a slightly different meaning in their mind when any given word comes up anyway.. Which is why ‘family’ now doesn’t really frustrate me as much when used in the same contexts as I was just ranting about with ‘mom/dad/brother/sister/etc’ but I dunno. I’m just suspicious of what feels like people trying to re-imagine these bio-family words so they can encompass non-biological bonds, rather than maybe instead trying to just? Keep words like friendship and platonic and whatever and push them until they gain a connotation of importance as much as ‘family’ (& related terms) and ‘spouse’ or whatever has? Because if we don’t want bio families to take precedence over chosen families in any way, then I think our language has to reflect that, and people need to stop fckin dismissing friendship in the first place. It weirdly reminds me of some people trying to get literary arts & humanities etc added to “STEM” bc they believe science shouldn’t be viewed as more valuable than the arts, but then in those very attempts to ““elevate”” the arts, they’re just??? Already playing into this assumption that STEM is higher, more important etc?? And treating arts as some form of science just limits it & removes a lot of the dimensions of art that makes it valuable - & different from science - in the first place? Which was what I was saying before about people trying to cram relationships like Yasha’s & Molly’s into a defined familial one?

Okay I realize this is just incoherent unhinged rambling at this point but I’m just trying to parse my inexplicable frustration on the go here lmao. If anyone who might have perspective on this wants to?? Help me out here, it’d be great to hear your thoughts. Am I just being overly suspicious & nitpicky??? Maybe!!!!! But that’s why I called it a quibble!!!!

anyway tl;dr the M9 are a group of friends, best friends even, and that can be just as important & prioritized as family/romantic partners, but if you really want to say the M9 are ‘like family’ or a family then I guess I’m ok with that too, but for some reason anything more specific than that tends to grind my gears bc I’m Weird

[flockofdoves]

wait ok maybe a bad time to start this at 1:30am (<- started this post last night lmao) but i’ve been thinking so much (for a long time but this week i think maybe prompted by jonny saying stuff in the s5 q&a part 3 about fanon character designs getting more homogenous as the fandom gets bigger its really been on my mind again) about my thoughts on the magnus archives character design stuff

(this turned into such a fucking long post my god sorry lol. just writing this for my own purposes really but i feel ridiculous i spent like a good portion of the past day writing this out dkjfhgfd)

like i already said on that other post character design stuff is full of so much under the surface both really silly and almost nonsensical (like ‘oh this character just feels like they have a lot of triangles incorporated into their design’ or the slightly more connected to reality arbitrary ideas people have about what type of character might wear glasses) and stuff thats incredibly loaded and very much connected to real life systems of oppression. so its like. idk. i like drawing people and fashion and harmonizing shapes and the idea of coming up with people who dont exist through abstracted drawings that somehow click and that can feel cohesive even with different angles/expressions/poses/etc is really fun to me conceptually but Character Design(tm) as a thing even outside of established tropes and schools of it that really lean into elements that can uphold gross shit as shorthand just inevitably theres so much to consider in the implications of making a person (visually) and ascribing traits to them (or i guess in this case largely the opposite)

so thats not something id call fun its just important and inevitably a big factor if i’m going to put any of this to words and can only hope i do so non-clumsily when i wanna talk about this on the whole just bc i find the process of how fanon designs get homogenized interesting (and the purpose of it understandable and maybe a bit inevitable in certain contexts) but also regardless of any actual potential problematic implications in any of that just bc i like the creative process of coming up with character designs i like trying to see when it comes to practicing that through applying it to characters in non-visual media i care about how i can break my guides for what they could look like down to their bare essentials between canon description, things i vibe with personally, etc so that if i have all that written down for myself it can be a good starting place for just experimenting with designs (i dont have any desire to settle on any one design for these characters but its just good general practice for this stuff) and maybe pushing a bit against some things that seem to be generally defaulted to mix things up or w/e. so yeah i’ve just wanted to write all this out for myself for a while, so after that long fucking intro fdkgh here goes!

jon!!!

ok so canonically hes born about 1987 and is like roughly 28-31 throughout the series but looks older to the point where he straight up lies and says hes a decade older at one point, he has graying hair, has been described as looking like he hasnt slept in weeks

(this bullet point contains spoilers up to early s4) depending on what part of canon youre describing him in he canonically has scars from worms probably all over his body (post ep 39), a burn scar on his hand (probably right and probably roughly shaped like a handprint) (post ep 89), actually i’m checking on the wiki now and it specifically says melanie stabbed him in the shoulder? but rereading the transcript and another couple parts that i thought potentially could mention it i dont believe it ever actually specifies (maybe the person who wrote that is conflating how both melanie and daisy’s first injuries from the slaughter are on their shoulders? so even if not canon good guess i guess that his scar from thats on his shoulder) (post ep 125) plus also probably on his throat from daisy (post ep 91), somewhere from michael stabbing him (post ep 47), and who knows maybe even something from mike crew (probably not it was just the height part of things not a lightning strike but i saw fanart of him getting a lichtenberg figure scar once from that which was interesting) (post ep 91)

has been described as ‘scrawny’ and ‘little’ which may just be more of a insult but because of that i support manlet jon lol. also because of that tend to think of him as skinny and not very muscular but i’m def not opposed to him being fat i think its really fun when i do see interpretations of him as such esp in juxtaposition with martin its nice having stuff sometimes where its two fat characters in a relationship. but if i’m leaning on every little word to narrow down character design i’d say hes most likely thin and probably short too.

getting into stuff with no real canon basis, i am a fan of him having long hair like a lot of fanon has him with. its a very tangential justification because i know its more the specific events surrounding this this was describing but when he was described as a “grubby jesus” that helped lol

but! my jon hair opinion that seems to differ from fanon is that i think maybe itd make sense with him being described as looking older and stuff to give him a bit of a receding hairline

not sure about glasses either way i think it just comes down to the specific design whether it looks good or not. there is something conceptually funny to me about giving an avatar of the eye glasses and debating whether that “makes sense” or not lol. one time i saw someones design where he stopped needing to wear glasses later on and i thought that was kinda fun

i don’t really care for like. idk. glowing green eyed jon or multiple eyes or w/e. like i get it. idk probably somethings happening when hes doing like the ceaseless watcher thing or like that one scene where he forced a statement out of that person who described him as “all eyes” like the phrase but maybe not just that as a phrase. so that plus the cover art of the show being green and making people probably theme stuff on that color i guess i cant blame people for doing that but idk just like. it feels kinda just Blah and not that novel to see a lot of the time and a bit too tropey or w/e for my personal taste unless people mix it up a bit. so i tend to prefer him just looking like some guy even later on usually. also with just like brown eyes or w/e

okay so this next part is for both jon and martin because i cant fit this into either of their sections because i feel like i cant adequately talk about this without doing it in juxtaposition to one another

this post summarizes basically anything i’m reiterating here far better but basically by nature of this being a podcast written by a white person for whom most of the first characters voiced (who included most of the most frequently appearing characters outside of those described by others because they were reoccurring avatars or w/e long before voice appearances) were from a small pool of people at a majority white company and their family members, even if that wasnt “intentional” of course that pattern happens so much and more productions should be conscious of that from the get go and reach outside their immediate circles to cast more actors of color from the start of their productions if they have the resources to properly compensate them. so basically from there theres no real totally satisfying solution for portraying “aracial” characters acted and written by white people’s race, because the situation just isn’t ideal in the first place

so like, with that in mind, i know its a bit of a mixed bag with jon in fanon being pretty consistently either ambiguously a person of color or specifically south asian, because i know people of color who were excited from fanon going in for him to be a person of color only to realize hes written and voiced by a white guy and has no canon race (which might just somewhat default to him being written as white since theres no active thought to how him being a person of color, let alone any specific race or ethnicity, might affect anything), but then on the other hand, characters with no race given being defaulted to being portrayed as white is absolutely another common issue in fandoms of things like books and podcasts. so personally because of that i would feel weird portraying him as white in my own designs in contrast with how consistently hes depicted as a person of color, but i would be interested in potentially depicting him as other races beyond the default fanon of him being south asian too (although theres def stuff to consider there that doesnt prevent any interpretation but just is there regardless like his dynamic with daisy in like s4)

and then this post expresses things better than i could ever rehash, but because of the stuff outlined in there in my own attempts at character designs i try to avoid making martin white because of the juxtaposition between that and making jon a person of color in their dynamic. not as pertinent and not something i’ve taken in from any fan of color saying it so i’m definitely not dictating this just talking out my thought process, but by extension of this i’ve also tried to consider how colorism in juxtaposition between them might make it sit better to have martin have darker skin than jon. this does get a bit weird though when balancing how martin has a couple really goofy lines implying ignorance about police abusing their power (i guess charitable interpretations could be that hes plenty aware but nonetheless vocalizing shock in the moment of it actually happening in front of him), so even if as one of the few characters i’ve posted designs of before i drew him as black, when i remembered those lines i guess its just an issue of an “aracial” character being defaulted to being written as if hes white, so even if he certainly could still be black (or any race besides white who might not have the luxury of ignorance about police brutality) it just makes clear that by him being written the way he was nothings ideal because theres not necessarily much depth that can be taken from canon to make certain depictions of him as satisfying or well fleshed out as they could be. oh also so inconsequential to the rest of this and i dont care about this at all beyond just latching onto any scrap to base things off of but the fact that martin maybe knows at least some polish i feel like thats not a language most people just know from school (esp as someone who didnt go to college) or w/e so maybe his mom is polish so probably hes part white at least to wildly extrapolate from there? idrc tho its just one more thing to note on the subject depictions of jon and martins races

martin!

canonically the same age as jon (so approximately born 1987 and roughly 28-31 throughout the series)

theres at least like 4 things in canon that can be used to say hes canonically fat, and some of those lines also more just generally describe him as “big” or w/e so while i dont care about sticking to this as much its easy to argue hes tall too (esp that one point where he says a worm “jumped literally 6 feet through the air at my face” which i guess could be approximate or the worm like. arcing lol and also iirc jonny says he doesnt remember writing that line but regardless its another thing to latch onto to narrow down design stuff)

melanie!

canonically has a scar on her shoulder (as of late 2016), probably on her leg too (if not by early 2017 then by early 2018/ep 125), and is described as skinny

(spoilers for late s4) (also eye trauma mention) post ep 155 she’s blind but trying to research what exactly she might look like like would the results of the damage she does with the awl after going to the hospital would her eyes need to be eviscerated vs enucleated? idk. thinking about lydia saying in a s3 extra in retrospect talking about this where shes like ‘it wouldn’t work like that with [an awl]!’ bc . lol yeah idk. or like would she have scarring on her eyelids or anything, would she have glass eyes, would she feel a need to wear sunglasses to protect her eyes or as a visual cue that shes blind (bc idt shed be the type to just wear it to hide her eyes) or not, etc. i’m not sure! one thing i do know for sure though thats a pet peeve in art is that people make her cane have a red stripe on it when it the UK especially a red striped white cane is for deafblind people, so her cane is most likely just plain white (also theres different styles of white canes but from researching i think shed probably make use of a long cane imo)

my biggest non-canon appearance thought about her is just. melanie king butch 💗

i do think its fun when characters get drawn with unnaturally colored dyed hair for no real reason and do think people should have fun with that more but simultaneously the contrarian in me gets annoyed with how common blue grown out roots straight hair bob melanie is. like the fun of the novelty of being ‘fuck it dying this characters hair’ gets sucked out of it from it being so consistent in fanon. also while she def could be a long haired butch or w/e regardless i just wish fanon of her was way more masc for my own self indulgent reasons

basira

i think the only canonical appearance description is the implication that shes not thin by jared when describing her, melanie, and martin, distinguishing melanie as “the skinny one”

hussain specifically as a surname spelled that way while i’m def no expert, from people i know personally and looking online too seems to be most common specifically with pakistani, indian, and bangladeshi muslims so it makes the most sense to have her be depicted as south asian. considering her VA, her being part black could make sense too but also i feel like its kinda a Thing in a lot of media where they’ll barely have black characters but when they do they’ll make them cops so like idk that’d def require more thought to it.

definitely not on authority on this of course this is just me talking through my own thoughts but i feel like maybe the common fanon of her being a hijabi feels a bit just like . theres not much thought behind it for a lot of people doing it? like it feels like ‘she has a muslim name’ -> ‘she’s muslim’ -> ‘she wears a hijab’ and not much else. like theres just like a whole lot that would need to be unpacked with any main character being religious in this series and actually specifically iirc theres a part in season 5 or something where her and jon reflect on the implications of all this on human religion? and both seem a bit agnostic in their approach. and of course theres people who wear hijabs who arent particularly religious (just like obviously vice versa) but for adults in places that arent majority muslim i feel like a main motivator for that would be connection with ones wider community? but basically all of the main characters in this story like necessarily with the themes and how all this was able to happen to them they feel pretty atomized from any real community (she specifically is paralleled with martin in how she latches onto daisy) none of this is at all to say she couldn’t be practicing islam and/or a hijabi but just that if thats how people want to depict her i think it deserves more thought than just drawing her as such (like for one example of how people have done cool things with making characters muslim i appreciate this artists comics about muslim jon (1, 2, 3)) but yeah! idk just something i’ve been thinking about but very much is not something i can act like an authority on of course. because being a hijabi is something stigmatized i do nonetheless feel slightly weird if i were to go against that fanon but idk

part of me is like ‘we dont need more butch cops’ but then the other part of me just defaults to wanting to make every woman gnc lol. for w/e reason i tend to picture her dressing pretty practically in like khaki cargo pants and hiking boots and flannels and such

daisy

canonically theres here starburst shaped scar on the back of her shoulder

(spoilers for mid s4) i dont care to find it now but i feel like once she was described as scrawny or skinny or whatever (not sure how much focusing on muscle vs thinness if so) but if so that was after she came out of the coffin so i dont think that really implies she always looked like that and i think maybe even by contrast could be implying she was muscular before

def think it makes sense to make her white. generally i do see her similar to fanon depictions of her although i do kinda wish in juxtaposition people would make more women look butch besides her. i think when i first pictured her before seeing fanart or anything it was pretty similar in build and hair color and demeanor such as most of fanon but i pictured her with like . you know like the tight bun women in the military wear lol. so its more ambiguous if her flavor of powertripping “tough” white woman is gay or not. but idrc regardless i dont plan on making much art of her

tim

uhhh i think the only canonical description of him beyond his worm scars (post ep 39) is that basira called him hot in comparison to jon and martin lol

ever since i started listening i keep defaulting to picturing him vaguely like tim from marble hornets lol. so like idk i think its fun when he has defined eyebrows and sideburns and stuff. but not even that i’m really Set on i think theres a lot of fun potential designs for him

sasha

canonically has long hair, is tall, and has glasses

(spoilers for either end of s1 or end of s2 depending on if you’ve figured out something. if you know you know lol) like obviously theres weird stuff in juxtaposition if you make not!sasha a different race than her. i think probably regardless theyre the same race considering melanie didnt note that when describing what sasha looked like. idrc about figuring out what not!sasha looks like ig if i ever make art of her i’ll just figure it out

i think this was the first art i ever saw of her like right around the week or so i started listening to the show that was posted and a mutual reblogged it so i think from basically the start thats how i pictured her essentially. but the main parts of ‘long dark hair, glasses’ i internalized from that are so close to just canon so maybe not saying much

georgie

uhhhh i dont think theres any canon description of her? and i dont have very many opinions on what she does look like honestly except that i think she looks very bisexual lol. i like the idea of her presenting pretty gnc but still maybe having some fun with feminine aesthetics too, but honestly making her present totally masc is really cool too

oh also wrt body type stuff. part of me is a bit tired of how sometimes it feels like fat characters only get to be in romantic relationships if its with skinny characters and rarely are there character designs of two fat people together and melanie is canonically skinny (which doesnt really matter i Could ignore it but i like latching onto descriptions just to narrow things down) and jons maybe implied to be which makes jon/martin like that too. but on the other hand idec i care more about just having fat wlw characters so if melanie in all i project on her cant be that then georgie will be

oliver!

only canonical description of him i believe is “tall, black and careworn, deep lines of worry etched into an otherwise handsome face”

uhh beyond that idk.. not really set on this at all but i feel like maybe he dresses like. business goth lol. like idk. well put together casual clothes like nice quality short sleeve button ups and chinos or nice cuffed jeans but maybe darker colors and a bit of a vaguely edgy but not tacky flair (like fucking idk. raven pattern button up or something lol)

i saw some art of him once where he had long locs and also just idk he was like doing that ominous floaty thing which included his hair and that had a nice rhythm in the art together with the black tendrils in the background so i could appreciate him having long locs/braids/twists or something. but def not set on that and ofc theres like a lot of years to depict him between he could have various hair styles

this is hard to really judge but ive seen posts where people are like ‘haha i draw oliver just like i drew kravitz in the adventure zone’ which is like vaguely annoying to me idk lol. but of course i cant Really know if thats what people are doing from depiction alone bc theres no set appearance for kravitz himself but sometimes i get the Vibes thats whats someones doing and its just like. whatever idk. branch out and design another character!!

there are literally soooooo many more characters i really thought i could make a short-ish thing for each character beyond a few necessary addendums but god even on inconsequential shit this post is already SO fucking long lol so i’m giving up for now i’ve done most of the main people plus my favorite side character so its fine i can get back to this later if i really want to