Leverage Season 2, Episode 13, The Future Job, Audio Commentary Transcript
Marc: Hello, Marc Roskin, producer and director of this episode.
Amy: Hi, Amy Berg, supervising producer and co-writer of this episode.
John: John Rogers, executive producer.
Chris: Chris Downy, executive producer, and co-writer of the Future Job.
John: Uh, this, did this start out of the haunting episode? Is this how the psychic came about?
Amy: The origin of this? No, the um, no I don't think so. Psychic Job was—
John: Was that Dean's?
Amy: No, it was literally a card that was on my board at the beginning of the season, along with Three Days of the Hunter, and Two Live Crew Job, so this was essentially plucked from the well.
John: This was one of the ones that sat there, that sat there for a long time, she was great, what, uh...
Marc: Jen Taylor, local Seattle actress. She was wonderful.
John: But it was Dean who really dug in on this one, because he really liked the bad guy. He really said, you know, ‘I really wanna hammer the fake psychics.’
Amy: Yeah, and he was the one who, sort of, had the vision of, sort of, making this a Parker episode and, sort of, getting to delve deeper into her backstory a little bit.
Chris: And there's Luke Perry.
John: Luke Perry was fantastic.
Amy: He was great.
John: How did we wind up casting Luke Perry?
Chris: I think it was suggested by our casting folks, and I think it was the first one on his list, and he said, Luke Perry would be fantastic for this role. And we all, we were kind of like wow. You know, you didn't really think of him as- as an evil psychic.
Marc: I would leave my wife for Luke Perry.
[All Laugh]
John: Luke Perry—uh, as a director, why don't you talk about working with Luke Perry, Marc?
Marc: He was wonderful. I mean, you can just really, when someone has that much experience working in television, I mean, it's amazing. He was on time, he never left set, he was always talking about character and would take any suggestions, you know, from me as a director, if you wanted to go another way, just let me know; he was just a dream to work with.
John: Now, what was the idea on this particular setting for the psychic, instead of like a formal office, or like, what was the set dec idea on this?
Marc: Well we wanted to have him working out of, like, a home type office, and actually we had to find something that we could build on the stage to work on.
John: Oh so that wasn't a location, that was-
Marc: No, that was just our basic, uh, hospital and Gina apartment set.
John: [Laughs] The Frankenset.
Marc: Shot on the same day as this day, on the stage, in our bar.
John: Okay, cool. Nice shot through the glass, by the way. I didn't know those taps worked. If I'd known those taps worked I would have been up north a lot more often.
Marc: They work. As soon as you request it, Eric Bates we'll start pumping a keg through them.
John: And this actor playing the brother—
Marc: Uh, Eric Riedman, he was great, too. I mean, he really, really clicked with Tim in this scene. They really worked well together.
John: And it was interesting. We were trying to figure out—we had a great victim, but ordinarily our victim has already had the thing done to them, but in the design of this, you needed the victim to sort of be in suspension.
Amy: Yeah, we needed a proxy. And uh, the brother was sort of a great emotional investment tool for us.
John: Yeah. And Portland actor, just a really, really great job. That was a good, 'I hate that guy moment', when we made her pregnant. And uh—
Chris: And taking her house.
John: Take her house, don't leave money on the table.
Amy: I guess we should point out that, uh, I named a lot of these characters - with the exception of Dalton Rand, Luke Perry's character - after the assistants on our show.
John: Oh, this one is the one where we used all the—
Amy: Yeah, it's Wilson, it's Nicholas, and Ryan, and—
Chris: I love that logo there, by the way, that went by.
John: Oh yeah, who designed that? The great Dalton Rand logo?
Chris: Oh they did a great job.
John: It was actually designed by Derek, right? Our computer graphics guy?
Marc: Yeah, Derek Frederickson in Chicago.
John: He banged it up for us. And it is amazing, this is another one where you could assume we are doing one or the other of any of the very sundry famous psychics, but really they all use the same cons.
Amy: Yeah, they really do.
John: And I’ll also say, Derren Brown was a big influence on this episode.
Amy: Yeah, I think you and I are maybe a little too obsessed with Derren Brown, and uh—
John: He is dreamy.
Amy: He's dreamy and he's sort of an—
John: And a powerful, commanding presence.
Amy: And he's an expert in NLP, which a lot of the stuff we talk about in this episode is, and he debunks a lot of psychics and mediums and things of that sort.
John: That's a really interesting way, too, by doing shows that make it look like he has those abilities.
Amy: And Apollo Robbins, our consultant, was helpful in, sort of, submitting some great terminology for us to use throughout.
John: Oh yeah, that's right, the cold reading terminology, yeah. Um, now this, where was this set?
Marc: This was an actual cable access station that they, again, just opened the doors for us. We didn't have to change any of the logos or the numbers, the people working the camera are the actual camera crew—
Chris: Wow, that's great.
Marc: —of this station, they were wonderful.
Amy: They absorbed us into their own productions.
Chris: Just like Three Days of the Hunter, this is another example of Portland opening its doors to us.
Marc: So all those monitors, they had up and running and feeding through our system as well, it was great.
John: Now did you take a look at any of the extant shows, in order to, sort of, see how this works?
Marc: Uh, I did, and a lot of it at first was just to see the set. And everybody—once you start looking at their sets—were like 'oh, maybe ours is a little too pretty.' [All Laugh] Some of them were just like two chairs and an easel, with something leaning against it.
John: 'I'm gonna sketch what your dead mother is saying.'
Marc: And then our construction crew, you know, built the risers, so we can have some depth with the audience. This was a fun scene. It wasn't supposed to be a physical scene, but Eliot and Lathrop turned it into one, so it was kinda fun.
Chris: I love when he gets mad here.
Amy: This was supposed to be a con, and then it turned into something altogether different.
John: He's just really annoyed at that dude up in his face. And you know what's interesting is we- it was a little weird developing this, because all the tricks that a lot of fake psychics use—not the real psychics, of course, with giant lawyers behind them, but the fake psychics use—are actually techniques we use in the cons, and so it was kind of this weirdly recursive thing. It's like, we're kind of exposing to the audience how they do this, but we do it every week.
Amy: Yeah, we're exposing ourselves as much as we're exposing Dalton Rand here.
John: And this is where he goes into cold reading. What was the—and it's interesting, cold reading is a fascinating subject, there's actually a couple great books that Apollo Robbins hunted up, and the idea that just by playing the numbers, just by playing the odds, any one of these guys can hit at about 80 to 85 percent success rate.
Amy: Yeah, it's act- it's basically asking a series of questions, and, sort of, gauging reactions to people without knowing anything about them in advance. Whereas hot reads or warm reads, as they’re sometimes called, are basically doing your homework beforehand, and getting research on the people you're about to meet with and, sort of, using that knowledge to, sort of, manipulate them.
Chris: The hot read is really more what our guy's doing, which is kinda how this thing broke down in the episode, was when we hijack and sort of take it over and hot read.
Amy: Yeah. Well we, the team basically underestimates Dalton here, and he surprises them.
John: They think that once they throw him, they'll get him, and he's able to cold read Parker. Which is also a big thing, not just in anchoring Parker's story into the episode, but the show always works when the nemesis is a bit more formidable.
Amy: Absolutely.
John: And it was kind of important, especially since Luke's kind of a really nice, he's got a nice guy vibe, it was kinda really important to start to hammer in on the fact that this guy is as good as they are. If he knew they were coming, this would be a very different game.
Amy: And I think Tim is great in this scene, because he's playing the audience, he's like, ‘Wait a minute, like, we were supposed to come in and sort of take over this guy, and he's sort of manipulating Parker, and surprising me in turn.’
John: Wow, look at Beth there. She is working.
Chris: Now, how'd you work with her on this when you went into this scene?
Marc: Um, it was interesting, because the scenes we shot first are the scenes later where it was really emotional in the Leverage apartment, where she really broke down, so she was already at that place once, and she just brought it right back, and I think Luke worked really well with her.
John: I also like that beat in the van where Jeri sort of chose, it was a very nice choice, where Aldis has got Hardison really pissed off, and Jeri's just admiring the craft. She's not as emotionally invested in the team, so she can kind of step back and admire this guy's chops.
Marc: And this scene was just such a great scene where all of our actors work so well together in, not only just rehearsing it, but getting Beth to a certain place, you know, where she should be, they were all really emotionally involved in this, and took a lot of time to rehearse—
John: Probably took twice as long as we usually do to shoot this stuff.
Amy: Well yeah, it was the characters being really protective of Parker, and the actors being really protective of Beth, it was really great.
Chris: Well I think it was actually, when it was written, more angry. You know what I mean? And I think seeing the dailies, it was, like, she took it to this incredibly vulnerable place that I don't think it really was on the page.
John: Also big credit to Dean Devlin, because he also had pushed that.
Marc: He did, he did. And this was a great scene, we have all the emotional arc with Beth, but as you guys were just explaining, in the script we explain the hot read and the cold read and we break it all down.
John: Yeah, and this is—again, we are always agonizing over how to explain this stuff, and having someone with a specific emotional response or attitude in the scenes makes a giant difference. And having it be Parker, who the audience is very very fond of, really helps, you know. We're now dumping an enormous amount of exposition on your plate, and you don't care.
Chris: Right, because it's—you know, we're seeing her in this really, just devastated place.
Marc: And we just found out a lot about her past that we didn't know about.
John: And he—I love that look up, just like, ‘Help me out here, I got nothing.’
Chris: Well the thing about it, and we'll talk about it when we get there, but the way she plays the scene at the end, with the brother, really was informed by all this, which was not at all on the page at all.
Marc: Right.
Chris: Like, when she hugs the victim's brother, and we'll get there, it's as if she's hugging her own brother.
John: And also it's interesting, because—oddly, it certainly wasn't intended, but it's just the way TV shows evolve—it helps, sort of, explain her relationship with Eliot and Hardison, you know. That's sort of how she fell into that rhythm, and that sort of proxy family—
Chris: It was not intended.
John: I would like to say, I'd like to say it was a sort of subconscious Alan Moore idea space.
Amy: Speak for yourself Chris, I totally did that on purpose.
John: Like two years ahead, like two years in advance?
Chris: Oh sure. That's what you're supposed to do on these commentaries—
Amy: Yes, many many years.
Chris: —you're supposed to go 'well, you see, I laid these—'
John: 'So this moment, two years earlier—'
Amy: Reason we're awesome, number 427.
John: But here's what's amazing is, we really, we're always like, in the show, could we possibly fool people with this? And then when you do this, this explanation scene, could you possibly fool anyone? They do! This is how they do it! We're not making any of this up.
Amy: No.
John: If anything, we're giving them better tech.
Amy: We're giving them ideas on how to be better at it.
Chris: And by the way, from a technical standpoint, these scenes were very difficult to shoot because we're going from monitors to action—
Amy: To flashbacks.
Chris: —to flashbacks, very hard.
Marc: And they're all green screens on the day we're shooting them.
John: Oh that's right, we didn't have the footage.
Amy: Nothing was on these monitors.
Marc: Nothing is on the monitors.
Amy: All we had was a nice bulletin board.
Marc: Yeah, we had a little bulletin board to show that they had the seating chart. And here, one of my favorite lines is coming up, it's just a great release valve, with all this tension, and, and her emotions—crying.
John: Yeah, you can see her turning, too. There's the sort of old Parker coming back, and the anger kind of building up in her face.
Amy: Yeah it's like, wait a minute...
Marc: And then this line from Eliot. 'Can we kill him?'
[All Laugh]
Chris: I think that was you.
John: Yeah that was, I think that was me. Quite sure. ‘Yeah, alright [Laughs] absolutely.’ I like, and Chris played it just right too, like...
Chris: Just a shrug.
John: And it's interesting, 'cause, that actually was intentional in the back half of the season this year. We really want to remind people, Eliot Spencer used to kill people. I mean, because it's really easy, because Chris is very charming, and he's very funny... yeah he was not a pleasant human being by any stretch of the imagination. And every now and then, you lose it a little, you know what I mean? You lose track of it, because he's such a nice guy. And who's that?
Marc: That is Lana Veenker, our casting associate there in good old Portland.
Amy: How did that come about? [Laughs]
Marc: You know what? We were just reading people and all of a sudden I'm like, ‘Why don't you read?’ 'No no no, I won't. Okay, gimme thirty seconds.' All of a sudden she read and we were like, 'Done.'
John: Done. We're out.
Chris: Didn't we write some pages where they have a long passionate kiss here?
[All Laugh]
John: Yes, we did. We did—actually we didn't write them, you know, they were faxed in, and I don't know where they came from.
Chris: Handwritten.
Amy: Yeah I think it was a Portland IP address, somehow.
John: Yeah, it was a little creepy, to tell you the truth. [Amy Laughs] Ah, no. And this, uh—you know, we need a new name for the assistant who's not a Busey.
Chris: Uh... Well, I mean...
John: Because we've had a couple.
Chris: Lackey? It’s kind of a lackey.
Amy: Do people know—have we explained—
John: We've explained the Busey's on both seasons.
Amy: Okay good.
John: Uh, yeah, he's not quite a lackey, he's more of a henchman.
Chris: Henchman, yeah.
John: For those of you building the characters in Savage Worlds, he would have one wild die. [Laughs]
Amy: Lackies don't have lines, henchmen do.
John: Ah, there you go, good point.
Marc: And this scene as well, the opening scene in this office was shot at like, one in the morning, twelve o'clock at night, Luke's first day—
John: [Laughs] Welcome to Leverage, Luke.
Marc: Yeah, exactly. And he just rocked it out.
Amy: Yeah, he's great.
John: He landed unctuous. It was a pity because it was one of those performances where in the middle you're like, ‘Oh man, I love when we find an actor and we want to bring them back— oh wait, he's a villain.’ This almost never happens with villains.
Marc: Yeah.
John: Drew was the exception, but he was a good guy villain.
Chris: I think he mentioned that he was a—he is a con man here, and that he could always have a twin brother.
[All Laugh]
Amy: Without the beard and mustache.
John: This is, uh, I actually showed up on set, I think this day, or the—I flew in...
Amy: This was my first day too.
John: Yeah, and we arrived and Marc was in the middle of planning the most insane thing ever.
Amy: Well, the thing is, I put this camera move in the script thinking and hoping maybe just to freak Marc out—with no expectation that he could possibly pull it off—as a joke!
John: Oh like the giant blue whale structure.
Amy: Yeah, yeah, as a friggin joke, and then like, he shows me this move, and, like, I nearly died.
Marc: I thought about it, and I was like, ‘Well, can we do it?’ And our First AD David Wechsler and New York AD goes, 'Do you want it?' I'm like, 'Yeah.' He goes, 'Then we could do it.'
John: Yeah, Wex stops traffic in New York; stopping traffic in Portland wasn't—'cause that's what happened, I showed up and I'm like, 'I'm going to the set' and they're like, 'I'm sorry sir, you can't go. They stopped traffic.' 'Well I know, but I'm a writer' 'No no, they're doing some sort of s—' I'm four blocks away! What the hell?’
Chris: By the way, Jeri Ryan here, fantastic look from Nadine—
Amy: Yeah.
John: And she's also got a great character going here—
Marc: She looks fantastic.
Chris: Got a great character.
John: This is a softer character than Jeri usually gets to play, even in the cons.
Marc: A little hippie-ish, yeah.
Chris: The hair was great. I mean really, they nailed this.
Amy: Well Luke even comments on it, “It’s a little on the nose, but [laughs] it works for you.”
John: But that’s the idea, to just kind of you know, not try to overthink it.
Amy: Yeah, it’s great.
John: And it was interesting, again, the—Jeri was great for us and she was really fantastic all year, but you know one thing she mentioned is, she got to play roles that nobody usually lets her play, even within the cons.
Amy: Yup.
John: And there’s another clue for you, where she spent the last—the time before her con career.
Marc: And here comes the shot.
Amy: I’m excited just thinking about it.
John: I’m a little giddy. Yeah, there you go.
Chris: Oh, around the corner!
John: Now that’s all done in camera, so what happens is you have to have everyone within view of that camera freeze. And then the camera man basically runs, we put a steadicam through and then we digitally speed it up.
Marc: Poor Gary Camp.
Amy: Gary Camp!
John: Poor Gary Camp.
Chris: Now that I thought about it, I bet you in the finale that’s what prompted Dean to do that shot with Sterling.
John: Right.
Chris: I bet Dean was like, he saw this and he was like ‘Oh you wanna try and top me with that? Well come and watch this!’
[All Laugh]
John: ‘I start and stop it four times!’
Chris: ‘I gave you your chance!’
Marc: But I don’t know, if you play it back you can see we also put some digital birds that are stopped—
John: Seriously? Like, if you slow-mo it you can see?
Marc: Yes. If you slow-mo it you’ll see two pigeons in the middle and we pass right past them.
Amy: That’s awesome.
John: I like the fact that, again, they’ve electrified the table, and that Nate is on board with Parker. ‘Cause again, that’s one of those little hints that Nate’s… sadism, for lack of a better word? is really starting to overtake his good judgment.
Amy: Yes. He’s—yeah it’s, little by little he’s starting to sort of fall to pieces here and sort of turn to the dark side.
John: Well, what’s nice is we started with the arc with the hospital one with- with the sadism, and then, you know, we had to sort of lean back on it for Gina’s arc. And then when we came back it was nice, that was basically the thrust of the back episodes. This was a lot of fun coming up with what the possible fucking visions could be. Oh that’s… I’m sorry, I’m drinking. [Amy Laughs] They’re used to me swearing on these by now! This really is like making, building a puzzle backwards.
Marc: This was really clever writing, and then to have the ability to shoot it was so much fun.
Amy: Aw. Thank you Rosky.
John: Yeah. We try to keep you entertained up there, after all your—this was only your fourth?
Marc: Yes.
Amy: Fourth episode?
John: Fourth episode, with no notice.
Marc: Yeah.
Amy: How was this episode different from the other three you’ve done?
Marc: It was fun to be in different places, you know, just to new places in Portland. It was fun to have a guest star like Luke to work with. And I loved having the emotional hook with Parker, ‘cause my first episode I did in the first season was a Parker episode, it was the Stork Job.
Amy: Oh! This is like your Parker bookend basically. That’s great.
John: Also it was interesting, watching with the sound off, I didn’t realize that’s one of the longest villain character scenes we’ve ever had. Like just when he’s parked there at the chair and she runs the con on him. Luke was really, really great.
Amy: He’s not bad to look at. [John Laughs] That’s kinda my job since you’re all dudes. [Laugh]
John: Well you know, I can appreciate a nice piece of man flesh as much as the next person. What is in this?
[All Laugh]
Marc: And the coffee finally spills.
John: And did we do the driving stunt there? No the driving—yes, the driving stunt’s after this.
Chris: It’s after this, yeah.
Amy: Yeah, yeah it was, the first part of it yeah.
John: But we shot it that day.
Amy: With the amazing, highly maneuverable Hyundai Genesis.
John: Hyundai Genesis was great. If you’re gonna murder someone with a car, the Hyundai Genesis is the way to go.
Marc: This was another local actor, I mean he just has… what a great face for television.
John: You know what, he looks a little like the British actor Peter Mullan actually, the guy who was on The Fixer?
Amy: He does! Yeah he does.
John: It’s really, I’ll tell you what Portland gave us - good cops.
Marc: Yes.
Amy: Oh yeah.
John: Our cops up there, ‘cause we just look at the Bottle show, and the three guys who played the Boston cops in the background, they’re just grounded.
Amy: This guy smells cop. [Laughs]
Chris: If you’re a cop-looking guy living in LA and you wanna get some work...
Everyone: Move to Portland.
Amy: We’ll employ you!
Chris: Just go! You listen to this right now? Load up the car, get up there! There’s work for you, my friend.
John: After these commentaries come out, people are gonna be on buses. There’s gonna be, like, bus tours for actors. And this was a lot of fun, was coming up—this was actually, I think we’d had the fortune cookie con in something. What was the story? Remember? We’d had it on the board for a while. The fortune cookies, the substituting.
Amy: Oh dude, so long ago; I wish I had the answer to that.
John: A lot of the, I mean that’s the thing is, there’s actually in the writer’s room a board of stuff.
Amy: Yeah.
John: And some of the stuff has been around long enough that it’s like, I know there was a provenance.
Amy: I think there was a fortune cookie con card.
Chris: Mm, I don’t know if a whole… might have been a story beat; it wasn’t a whole con.
John: Not a whole con, it was a story beat, yeah. But the idea of substituting—
Chris: This is a great- Here we go; here it is. [Laughs]
Amy: Look at it shining in the sun, beautiful.
John: And that’s a great—what was the choice on the, like in the moment, in the script it just says, ‘He realizes.’ How did you decide to go to the slow-mo and..?
Marc: I wanted to do a slow-mo in the 360; the world’s kinda spinning on him and just the—
Amy: The camera’s a great touch, too. I like it.
Marc: Yeah, well I wanted the can to just show the proximity of how close he was, how much he’s tempted fate.
John: This was also one of the sequences that—who cut this?
Marc: This was Sonny.
John: This was one of the sequences where Sonny Baskin really, really, really slammed it together because this is always tricky, figuring out how the flashbacks work. In what order, in what pace, at what exact moment in the scene. And I think in the script we played around with showing some of it upfront, and then—
Chris: How much of the dialogue to replay was kind of the trick.
John: Exactly, how much we make sure the audience is following.
Marc: And I don’t think some people were understanding, like, why I took so long to shoot that car sequence when he stepped out. That it does play later, and it does have to have different feels and looks to it.
Amy: There’s two parts to it, yeah.
John: And again, this is another one where you have to anticipate, this guy checks credit reports, we know he checked the victim’s credit report earlier, you know.
Chris: And another thing is, one of the hallmarks of our show is that when we create a character, we don’t always create powerful con characters. We create characters that have vulnerabilities that our bad guys can exploit. So here, we created a fake story of her having bad credit and being in debt for hospital bills.
John: Yeah it’s like Chris in the MMA one, Kane, he plays in a very power-negative position in that. Pretty much every variant of a con character you can possibly find.
Amy: José! The name on the cup.
John: And Chris is ridiculously delighted to be doing this at this point actually. [All Laugh]
Amy: How can you tell?!
John: I think he’s just enjoying stealing—driving a truck to tell the truth. And I love the idea that Hardison would do this and this is just what he does. He spends his weekends filling fortune cookies with fake messages. He does all the grunt work.
Marc: That’s a good shot.
John: That is a great shot. And we’re locked in. And this was also tricky, too, because again, because the victim had not been burned yet, essentially, and it was a preventative con. It’s not something we usually do, and trying to figure out how to accelerate this con, and what exactly Con A was, was really—it kicked our asses to tell you the truth.
Chris: The danger was really the tricky part, when to introduce the danger.
John: And now we knew we wanted to do the maestro Hardison beat in this script. Marc, you had a very specific reference for this whole bit, which was the radio announcer in Warriors right?
Marc: Yes.
John: Though Hardison is basically being a geek hacker—what year was that, 1980… Walter Hill, The Warriors…
Marc: Late 70s.
Amy: ‘79, or something. Around there.
John: Basically Marc reached back, like 35 years, and found himself a really great filmic reference for her side.
Chris: Well the key here is, the writing of it was making sure to go quickly from one, to the next, to the next.
John: Boom, boom, boom.
Chris: Each piece of information feeds to her, and she synthesizes it and comes to a conclusion.
John: It also helps explain how good Tara is.
Chris: Yeah.
John: She’s gonna run this con character as she’s getting all this crap dumped into her ear.
Amy: She’s playing vulnerable to him, but sort of expert to us.
John: I also love that he’s just given up at this point. We had not told the set people to put the orange soda in the fridge, but they just filled it and it just stayed that way for the year. I love that Nate’s just given up.
Chris: Yeah, this is Hardison’s war zone. He’s gonna need to be armed.
Amy: Gummy frogs, always important.
John: Gummy frogs, a call back from the magician episode. And Aldis really dug in there, really great job. Oh that’s Ire!
Amy: That’s Ire!
John: Was our…
Chris: Camera intern?
John: Camera intern, yeah. And she does some acting, and she was fantastic.
Amy: Her audition was fantastic, yeah.
John: Yeah, that was one of the ones where it was like, ‘Okay we’ll audition you.’ At the end of the audition, ‘Wow…you have a career in this.’ [Laughs] But she’s going into camera work. She’s gonna, believe back this year as one of our camera people...
Chris: Oh she’s gonna come back? Oh that’s great.
John: And why the choices on the lights in the- the blue? Just liked it? Just like the set of one color tone?
Marc: Yeah, just liked it. Dave had an idea about it, and it just worked real well.
John: And it stayed consistent through this setting. It’s a very nice contrast with the sort of warm orange and wood tones of like, Nate’s apartment. It helps track locations a lot easier.
Marc: And Beth freaked out a lot of people when she walked on set with that wig.
Amy: Many many people did not recognize her.
John: I know, that’s really odd, right?
Amy: It was fun.
John: It’s a great wig.
Amy: Yeah it is.
John: Hair and makeup did a great job with that, ‘cause you guys sent me the photos and I was like, ‘I have to shoot the season finale. Did they cut her freaking hair?’ No, great wig. And this is hot read, this is our crew doing hot reads on the fly, and it’s a lot like the Bottle show, where it’s like, you can’t do the wire in two hours. In theory, you can’t hot read someone simultaneously as you’re conning them. Well, you know.
Amy: Maybe you can if you’re Leverage!
John: You’ve got the little camera movements here, is that, you tried to track those or do you just assume that Camp and—?
Chris: Yeah, you’re making sure as you move in one direction on one, you move in the other direction on the other?
Marc: Uh, a little bit. We always wanna keep the sliders going, just pushing in at the appropriate moments especially when Ire- I mean she just did such a great performance, and did it in one take.
Amy: One take; it was one take.
Chris: And didn’t you say to her, ‘Save a little bit ‘cause you may need to do this again’?
Marc: Yeah. I said, I said, ‘Don’t let it all out so fast.’ And Luke was so great with her. Knowing that... He’s seen her pulling cable, and all of a sudden she’s in front and having to break down.
John: He was great with her. Now here’s the thing, most people don’t know what sliders are, why don’t you explain what sliders are? Most people know cameras move left and right but they, you know-
Marc: Sliders are what we have on our dollies and tripods that allow the camera head to move, I guess laterally, left and right, in a fluid movement. Just drifting, so always- the background’s moving just ever so slightly, so it never looks too stale or stagnant. There’s my Warrior shot!
John: And I notice you punched in, like closer, closer, til you land on it. It’s very nice. Also, I like the fact that the name of the National Transportation Safety Board—is that, that’s the name of Parker’s friend from… Peggy Milbank, is like the name that’s coming up, that’s Parker’s friend from the first season.
Amy: Yeah, it’s sort of like a little inside joke.
John: And Hardison, ‘Get the hell out of my way.’ It’s interesting, this is a big, kind of, Nate as guardian episode, and he’s not driving it. It’s one of the great episode examples of where Tim Hutton and Nate kind of just ground it, is kind of the center of it. There’s Wade.
Amy: Wade Williams, awesome actor. Perfect for this role.
John: I was wondering how he would play this reaction, because she’s, you know, he’s giving her a line of bullshit, and he’s gotta, he’s in front of everyone.
Amy: Yeah, he knows he’s on camera.
John: That reminds me of that guy who proposed to his girlfriend at the basketball game and she turned him down.
Everyone: Oh yeah!
Marc: Then the mascot walks him off.
John: Just put a- just end it. No, Wade was fantastic, he’d just come off Prison Break? Wasn’t he a guard on that?
Chris: And we had a long search for that part, too.
John: Yeah, we read a lot of guys. Well, because the original dialogue was somewhat baroque. [Laugh]
Amy: It was! It wasn’t exactly an easy thing to pull off, which is why we ended up casting it out of LA. It was just a really meaty part.
John: Nice fight coming up here, by the way. They actually banged the hell out of that van. You had to hammer a dent out, didn’t you?
Marc: Oh yeah. Yes we did.
John: Just every now and then you bounce a stuntie off a van. Jeri mixing it up. Jeri was in there, yeah. Good hit!
Marc: Our local stunt actors and Kevin Jackson choreographed this.
Amy: The moment where he, sort of, notes the tattoo on the guy’s hand.
John: It’s a nice beat. It’s interesting, the Portland stunt guys really dug in. Because we did a lot more stunts and a lot more fights than four or five movies that have shot up there combined, and they really rallied. They were fantastic. And this was the—
Chris: But here’s where he has to synthesize everything. I mean, now, you know, is where he really steps forward.
John: Well this is really where he digs in on the mastermind thing. This is a good, ‘Let me get this straight’ scene. This is a nice- the ‘let me get this straight’ scene is where you just reset for the audience, you know, just reset the stakes, reset the plot.
Amy: Also known as ‘So you’re telling me.’
Chris: It’s a general rule of writing to show, not tell, and the exception to that rule is when the situation is either so absurd or entertaining that you get a second laugh on the retelling of it.
Amy: Just commenting on it.
John: ‘I wanna get this straight,’ yeah. And you can also hide it in planning, or when the characters don’t have enough information. But no, because the episode at this point—
Chris: There it is, I think she just said ‘so let me get this straight.’
[All Laugh]
John: ‘Cause this is the point where the episode becomes an entirely different episode, because the first con worked. Again, because that’s always the trick on these, like, in theory you don’t want something to just fall out of the sky and be wrong.
Amy: Well they basically had Dalton Rand in the bag, and then, a totally unexpected-
Everyone: It worked too well.
John: This was a lovely shot. Marc?
Chris: Oh, I love this.
Marc: This was, I wanted to try and get this in one steadicam shot and just show the energy and movement throughout. I mean we spent so much time in this apartment that it’s fun to try and mix it up again.
Chris: Oh here we go, and up the stairs!
John: Nice, how many takes was that?
Marc: I think we did it in about three or four takes.
Amy: That’s crazy.
Chris: That was it? Now that was planned as a one- or, or was that just the end of the day, we gotta get this shot?
Marc: No, that was planned. That was one shot I wanted to try and do that had a little more energy and fun to it.
John: Marc’s lived at that set for a lot of shots, he wants to vary it up a little.
Amy: Time to mix it up.
Marc: And this, this was an idea that Connell had. When he saw the location and the time we’re shooting at, he said, ‘Let’s establish their faces,’ and then just, she’s walking into darkness.
John: Just bump into silhouette.
Chris: And she’s in boots, so let’s pan out from them, so, let’s be honest.
Amy: That’s what boots are for.
Marc: This happened to be in the paper factory.
John: Is this the The Bottle Job paper factory?
Marc: Yes, it’s just the area that didn’t have paper.
[All Laugh]
John: Now, yes, now we’re basically—yeah, there you go. He’s really digging in on this. ‘Come, come join me!’
Marc: And that was his idea, he said, ‘Get the lady a chair!’
John: This entire speech, I think I did drunk.
Amy: This was me taking notes on a notepad when you were drunk in the writer’s room, reeling off this speech.
Chris: It was a big debate about the- about what we- this guy, what was called in the writer’s room the evil scary guy.
John: Evil scary guy.
Chris: The appearance of evil scary guy. We typically don’t have dangerous villains appear late in episodes. Usually we’ve established them and so this was the idea that we were gonna have evil scary guy come at this point in the episode and you know, put everyone in mortal danger. And you went off in a very oddly baroque manner.
John: Yeah. I really—‘cause what I was doing was actually making fun of the idea. Because I was like, ‘Seriously guys, we’re gonna do this? Some guy’s gonna show up and go ‘Gentlemen, I have a problem!’’ And I basically did this speech with, like, a fistful of scotch, and Berg and Chris sat on the same side of the table and they both looked at me and went, ‘Yeah.’
Chris: ‘Yeah, yeah if you like that. That’s great.’
John: ‘Pretty much. Exactly like that. Thanks gentlemen. Debate’s over.’
Chris: ‘Debate’s done.’
John: ‘Debate’s done. That was entertaining, we all enjoyed it, therefore it is in the episode.’
Marc: This was fun to shoot; we had a circle track with, you know, two cameras and two separate dollies.
John: Wait, at the same time?
Marc: Yes.
Chris: Wow.
John: Oh, Jesus Murphy. So where is the circle track laid down, it’s on the outside of this beam?
Marc: On the outside of the beam, and yeah, just around everybody.
John: Two sizes.
Marc: Yeah, two sizes. And then at one point towards the end we, you know, change direction, just to mix it up a bit. But it was fun to have this type of villain. In the beginning we’re dealing with someone who’s smart, looking at bank statements, and now we’re dealing with a guy with a gun and thugs, who spent time in upstate New York.
John: Yeah, and he really sold it. And also it- the rule is: the villain has to suffer. And interestingly enough, we started Darlton Rand’s suffering really early in this episode. His loss of power here is really, he has just a bad back two acts. And Luke played it very nicely. Like right here, where he’s trying to keep control.
Marc: Yeah, when he’s trying to keep control, and he’s still trying to sell the idea that he’s the psychic.
John: Wade is terrifying. That was nice, picking up around here as she was dropping into it; that was very nicely done.
Marc: Yes, Gary Camp and Dave Connell.
Chris: Now how long did this take? Do you remember how many takes you did with this, with the circle track?
Marc: I think this scene, we… I believe we did it in just over an hour. Yeah, but it’s a lot of dialogue, and Wade did such a great job because, you know, he had to do it so many different times.
John: And there’s a lot of looks in this. There’s a lot of angles in this.
Amy: He just cracks me up.
John: Yeah, he does. He’s so happy. Yeah, you gotta bang them up from both sides, you’ve gotta pick him up talking to them. There’s no good way except a circle track to shoot that.
Marc: Yeah. I think that Jeri sells this really well in this scene.
John: She does. A little distressed, a little—
Marc: Yeah he’s walking in one direction, no, it’s not, this way. And it’s nice seeing, shooting over, oops, too early.
John: It’s always a little too early. A little too early. Timing is a big part of the show. And yeah, fainting damsel never, never fails.
Amy: Best stall ever.
John: Where was this? Was this, like, the storage unit place? Or this was on the road outside?
Marc: Uh, this wasn’t far from our sound stage.
John: Really? Really, we shot near the sound stage?
Chris: We got a lot of mileage within a couple hundred yards of our sound stage.
Amy: Clackamas.
John: Beautiful scenic Clackamas. And this actually, the fake registration idea came from Darwyn Cooke’s comic book adaptation of Parker. The Donald Westlake novel. In the opening of it, remember, he has the thing with Parker and—it’s one of my favorite starts to a novel, Parker’s walking into New York on the Brooklyn Bridge, like, but on the street? And people are—So what happens is, in the 1960s, he goes and gets his replacement driver’s license, and then he ages it. Because… and we spent a little time in the room like, what doesn’t have your picture on it? What can we age believably that, and, yeah that was where the idea came from. And then constructing this backwards to get the series of clues was- was a long afternoon.
Amy: Yeah, that was a tough—but then we broke this episode in one day, so it wasn’t that tough.
Marc: But I wasn’t allowed to break the window.
Amy: Oh that’s right, I remember that. Yeah, we had to, she had to jimmy it open.
Chris: ‘Cause that glass is expensive.
John: Breakaway glass is not cheap. Uh, there’s something creepily sexual about this exchange.
Chris: ‘Can I have your overalls?’
Amy: Yeah, and the look on Tim’s face, too.
John: Yeah, well I think that might not be the matching dialogue with that take, ‘cause I think it got a little dirty in that shot. Now this is a great location. I think we actually broke into a couple of storage units for this. People don’t mind, it’s Portland, they’re totally cool with us doing that. Good stall, and then we finally get Nate into a costume for the stall. Storage units, the anonymity of modern life is the key to Leverage. Storage units, cell phones, instant messaging, email, you know, I don’t think you could do this show in the 50s. And there you go, yeah.
Chris: Here he is.
Marc: Uh-oh. Gun, danger.
John: And, is that Dashiel Hammett or Raymond Chandler’s rule?
Amy: Yeah, Dashiel Hammett’s.
John: Dashiel Hammett. When in doubt, have a guy enter with a gun. And we actually have on the board in the writers room, ‘Man entering with gun > man exiting with gun.’ You have to understand, dude coming in… And Tim has an enormous amount of fun.
Chris: And this is his fumfering bureaucrat.
Marc: This was a fun shot to do. Craning up just to see, and then that’s the CG building that we added in the background.
Chris: That’s right, to set up the ending.
John: Yeah, in the original ending it was all done through remote camera, and then Dean suggested that we actually put it, attached it to it, and since cable access shows are shot in the middle of fricking nowhere, it actually worked out fine. And whenever- Oh, there you go.
Amy: Well I think Dean’s idea of that was just, sort of, to give our villain a bigger comeuppance, if he had to, sort of, face his victims...
John: Face-to-face. And that’s interesting ‘cause we always go like, you need the gloat, but you also need the suffering. And in the non-him-showing-up version, we had—
Amy: It was basically just the gloat, yeah. I mean he still ends in jail, but.
John: We have the people upset, but you know, you don’t get him looking them right in the eye.
Marc: Small spaces to work in.
[All Laugh]
Chris: How was it like, shooting the storage locker?
Marc: It was a little tough.
Amy: I remember this day.
Marc: You know, it was a double, but we just made it look like one, so we had room to always just have the camera on one side.
Amy: Yeah, there was actually another storage locker that opened up right next to this, to the left, so we could have somewhere to switch the cameras.
John: So did you throw up like a half-wall over on that side, or is it just, stack some boxes to feel like-
Marc: We just stack some boxes and just move the camera, but you’ll notice the camera’s usually on that side, looking that direction.
Chris: And here’s where he’s really starting to lose it, ‘cause he does have an arc, from inexplicably baroque, to just completely losing it.
John: No, he totally sold this. There’s no doubt about it whatsoever. And you guys took what was a joke pitch and turned it into a real character. That was just me on a long drunken rant. I’m inexplicably baroque, in the room, often!
Amy: This is, by the way, true.
John: Yeah. And Luke, losing it. Really the whole confession, the whole begging; he really sold it.
Marc: And of course, you know, time constraints. His stuff was shot all at night, hers was all in the daytime.
Amy: Of course. That’s how it works.
John: Really? So looking at Luke, you were looking, you had night behind you looking out?
Marc: It was night.
Chris: Here we go.
John and Chris: Det cord.
[All Laugh]
Amy: Det cord is great.
Marc: Our friend for the back half of season uh—
Amy: Thank you MythBusters for det cord.
John: Thank you MythBusters for showing us how det cord worked and how effectively—
Amy: I think I pulled that from a YouTube video.
John: Yeah, well we started with Thermite, remember? ‘Cause I remember how it melted through the car and you were like, ‘No, that’s too huge’, and you found us some det cord.
Marc: Here I just wanted to have a shot of Eliot’s arms.
John: So here’s a little something for the ladies, as my wife says. And now, this is very flashback heavy, but it’s all in continuity. You did a nice job of making sure we’ve seen just enough of these that we never floated. ‘Cause sometimes it’s like, ‘Oh god, do we know exactly where we are in this flashback?’
Chris: I think we compressed a little of it in editing too. I think there was a little bit more and we kind of just moved it all.
Amy: Yeah, there’s a lot more here than…
John: Ah, the network is unhappy; they’re gonna go get one of these real psychics now, not a fake psychic like this.
Chris: And then we get to see our victim again, and our other victim.
John: The proxy victim.
Amy: And the camera lady’s like, ‘I don’t wanna be part of this,’ backing out of the scene.
John: And the begging and the pleading. There you go. And there’s all the people who’ve been hurt.
Chris: The man from Michigan.
John: Did he stay in a hotel? Why is he still there? He got his reading yesterday. I don’t remember why he…
Chris: He wanted to come back; he had more to find out.
John: I guess so, I guess so.
Marc: This is always fun when you shoot things on two different days, that end, and that end.
Chris: Is Tim looking at a tennis ball, what do you do?
John: Is that like Jurassic Park? Or it’s like this tennis ball on a hockey stick is Chris’ hair. ‘Just track this.’
Chris: You just make sure your script supervisor takes good notes of uh...
John: Look at that, you’re shooting past the car! He’s in the car.
Chris: Nice, I never would have known that.
John: Nicely done. And this is actually, you know what? The president of the network the other day mentioned how much he loves the scenes where they’re all there. Where the guy actually, like, sees the whole- the whole con.
Amy: The family gloat, as opposed to just the singular gloat.
Marc: That’s the way we pull off this show in seven days - cheating.
Amy: Cheating very cinematically.
John: I prefer to call it cable awareness.
Amy: Cable awareness? Nice.
Marc: Now I think this next scene in the bar is, I think, one of my favorite wrap-up scenes that I’ve got to direct.
Amy: It’s one of my favorite, too.
Marc: It was one of these days where it was- there were so many tears on set.
John: We were coming to the end, too; we were getting there. Everyone was kind of rung up and spun up.
Marc: But everyone just, you know, Tim and Jeri and Beth and everybody, our guest actors, everybody just came in so strong and it was great.
John: This speech, by the way, you can really tell Tim’s a dad. That’s really how he lands this speech, it’s like, yeah.
Chris: Well the story, it’s an interesting story because the little peanut butter bit, a very good friend, a writer friend, Steve O’Donnell, who is a long time Letterman writer, and he has a twin brother Mark O’Donnell—also a writer, wrote the book to Hairspray. And I remember talking to him one time about the closeness of the two of them, and he said that they’re so close, that if you laid out peanut butter, that somebody spread on different pieces of bread, he could pick out his brother’s peanut butter. And it always stuck with me that that is something that, when I was writing this scene, that there’s just things that you see in your child that you just recognize from yourself or your father, and it has nothing to do with what you did, it’s all biological. And that was really, it did a beautiful job with it.
John: Nice landing on that. And Jeri there, by the way, she’s got a little glisten going there; she got a little moist.
Chris: And here’s this moment that was not scripted at all. Well, not intended in the script, but just through the acting.
John: But that was nice. Jeri landed the arc. She kind of completed Tara’s arc through there.
Chris: Yeah, she got it.
John: She had gone through all six episodes and she, you know, a lot of actors would come in and take up the space and say thanks for the job, but she really put in the work from [unintelligible].
Chris: There it is. I mean, that’s like...
John: I mean, she’s breaking your heart there.
Chris: She’s hugging her brother.
Marc: And I just gotta make sure that she makes that eye contact with Nate.
Chris: And it was all because that part about her brother was added after that scene was written, but she brought it together in this moment.
John: It’s a lovely beat. We have very, very good actors.
Marc: Then we release the valve and let you chuckle here.
Chris: Yes. We call it, in the comedy business, a treacle cutter.
John: A treacle cutter, yeah. And also Kane really lands these beats. He really- it goes from a smile, all the way to annoyed. He hits both of the crucial Eliot beats here. It’s the grin, and then, ‘I’m gonna kick your ass.’ He really hits all the bases on that one.
Chris: And we kind of end on her surrogate brother here.
John: Yeah. Who she may sleep with. Still haven’t decided that.
Amy: It’s a little incestual.
John: Yeah, you know, all television’s a little incestual.
Chris: Oh they’re all...
John: What, they’re all sleeping together, is that what you meant? What’s going on up there?
Chris: No, that’s—Come on. It’s like Star Wars.
John: Oh there you go, that’s perfectly legit. Anything you want to say to the nice folks?
Amy: Thanks everybody.
Marc: Thank you. It was a great episode to work on.
Chris: Thank you guys.
John: And actually thanks for David Wechsler, ‘cause he came in late and really helped us out on that. Really good job. And hopefully Luke Perry will be back. Less evil.
Chris: As his twin brother.
John: There you go.
Chris: Why not?
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