#and Jiang Fengmian was not evil just beaten down by life

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Hello Orion! I've seen your opinions about JC, YZY and JYL (I agree with all of them) so I was wondering, what about Jiang Fengmian? Just curious about what you think of him and how much JC stans seem to twist him in order to make him and WWX look bad. But then again I'm not quite sure what my opinions on JFM are either so I was just curious about it!

Love ur metas and writing btw! Your posts always cheer me up and I've been through some hard ass anxiety attacks of which your blog helped me through, so thanks a lot! ❤️💕

Hello there, Agnes! And thank you very much for the compliment, I'm glad if what I scatter about on this messy website is able to help others as well, even as I wrestle with my old anxieties before I toss it into the closet and tell myself to be open without worries about my opinions on a book we all have love for (or hate, I get hate reading too, if that's your thing... just please reread before trying to bash with your whole chest)

On to Jiang Fengmian, I think he was a kind man, that was not meant to be a leader, that was dealt a sad hand in life. I think his own passivity and wanting to be someone that just lived, ultimately is what sort of hurt him. His love and sentimentality, in a way feels similar to the quiet love of Lan Wangji, not understood well, especially since he did not get to have a Wei Wuxian at his side and had others he did significantly care for (Jiang Cheng) believe he was indifferent. There is a big reason why his message of being careful of how you express or what you say is such a major theme within the story, since it is his words, that are at the core of what Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji have to overcome to be happy with each other and see that their love and care is reciprocated.

Jiang Fengmian was wise in what he had to say, but his lack of faith in his own place or being able to have convictions in it, is what held him back, and made Yu Ziyuan able to be cruel to him, and their children. He was not able to rise above hardships because of this weakness. And him choosing to kowtow to that all, made him another accessory of saying and doing things that were damaging, regardless of intent. He had failed to follow his own words, and I believe he knew this as he was a worn down man by the time we get one real interaction with him. And he is just a sad man with only little happiness in his life.

He was a parent who wasn't able to speak to his child the way he or Jiang Cheng needed, and he wasn't a parent to Wei Wuxian, out of respect for his old friends, and because of the hate Madam Yu would continue to have in him. He made choices that weren't good for him, or anyone, when he ultimately agreed to a betrothal that ruined generations. I think he did see that, but didn't know how to fix it in anyway, and, went through life without really living it with little passion.

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed Episode 20, part three(!)

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Stuff) (Previous Post)

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

This episode has so much crucially important stuff in it I had to write 3 posts about it! Part one is here, part two is here. 

Don't Start None, Won't Be None

Lan Wangji has never had a real fight with Wei Wuxian before--remember, in their rooftop fight Wei Wuxian never even drew his sword. And since this is going to be a verbal fight, Lan Wangji is going to lose, badly. He's an elegant and articulate speaker, but he's not quick with words, and he speaks directly and sincerely. Weaponized speech is not his area at all, so he's pretty much bringing a knife to a gunfight. A guqin to a flute fight. Whatever. He tries to turn it into a physical confrontation, twice, but Jiang Cheng holds him back.

This throwdown is 100% about religion and orthodoxy; something that is fundamental to both of these young men's lives. Lan Wangji has made it his mission to be as orthodox as possible, doing shit like volunteering to be beaten for drinking when he didn't choose to drink. He's constantly overwhelmed by emotion, and the Lan rules are a source of regulation and safety for him. His emotions around Wei Wuxian are among the most overwhelming he's got, possibly only second to his feelings about his mom.

Right now his feelings are extra overwhelming. 

It's complicated because his relationship with Wei Wuxian literally started off with him punishing Wei Wuxian for heterodoxy. All that time they spent together in the library? Was because Wei Wuxian talked--JUST talked--about using resentful energy for cultivation. Which is precisely the ability he's just shown them, along with a style of killing enemies that's borderline evil and definitely, DEFINITELY unsportsmanlike.

So this is not, Lan Wangji is lovingly worried about Wei Wuxian and Wei Wuxian is pushing him away to avoid an uncomfortable conversation. This is Lan Wangji freaking out because his entire system of belief is being challenged and he's in love with the person who's challenging it.  

Wei Wuxian has shown up to the party wearing an International Mr. Leather tee shirt with a enamel pin stuck to it that says "I get my kicks on route 666" and Lan Wangji just. cannot. deal.  

Never Start a Fight But Always Finish One

Wei Wuxian has a couple of options here. One is to accept, kindly, that he and his friend can't be friends any more because of religion. In this option, in order to preserve his friend's comfortable sense of being right, he would have to tacitly accept that he himself is bad in some way, and allow his friend to keep having his value system, while walking away from him.  

The other choice is to hit so hard that he makes his friend feel really, really bad, and potentially rocks him off of his comfortable foundation. In the short term, the friendship breaks, but if it forces him to actually question his value system, it might lay the groundwork for a new, more accepting friendship.  Anyone who is queer with an anti-queer-religious best friend is probably familiar with this dilemma.

Wei Wuxian chooses the second option, and goes all in from the first moment, calling Lan Wangji "Lan Er Gongzi" and then upgrading to "Hanguang Jun" and even bowing. If it's possible to bow sarcastically, that's what Wei Wuxian is doing. Then he meets his eyes and sticks his chin out, essentially saying "how do you like them apples?"

(more after the cut!)

Lan Wangji's feelings are probably hurt, but he's too busy being mad to show it, and he goes straight to grilling Wei Wuxian, asking him about the killing, the talismans, and giving up the sword, all while Jiang Cheng stands by and wonders what the fuck is happening. 

Lan Wangji is making a fundamental error here, which is he's speaking as if he's an authority instead of as a peer. Wei Wuxian has only ever accepted one authority in his entire life, and that was Jiang Fengmian. Jiang Cheng is the one who, for a change, is approaching as a worried friend, while Lan Wangji approaches as if he has the right to call Wei Wuxian to account.  

Wei Wuxian won't answer his questions and is getting in his face, provoking him in a very quiet and controlled way, and Lan Wangji responds by just being really aggressive. It's interesting to see Wei Wuxian completely mastering his emotions while Lan Wangji is completely....not.  Wei Wuxian pushes harder, saying he's being rude, saying he's being a bad friend.  Which doesn't make any difference to Lan Wanji, who keeps pressing for an answer while Jiang Cheng wonders what the fuck is happening.

Come to Gusu

Wei Wuxian says he already explained, that it's complicated, it will take time to explain, so then Lan Wangji makes the utterly dumbassed demand that Wei Wuxian return to Gusu with him to explain it. What, exactly, is his plan? Bring Wei Wuxian to Gusu and have Lan Xichen (at the very least) and probably also Lan Qiren help him to convince Wei Wuxian that resentful cultivation is bad? How is that likely to work out? Let's have our own flashback, to that classroom interaction that led to the punishment in the library.

Lan Qiren: How will you make sure the resentful energy will only listen to you and not harm others? [Note: he's not wrong, Wei Wuxian] Wei Wuxian: I haven't figured that out yet ["details," as OP's dad used to say] Lan Qiren: If you did, the cultivation world would not allow your existence [i.e. we, the Lan Clan of Gusu, will kill your ass]

Lan Wangji probably doesn't think he's threatening Wei Wuxian with death by inviting him to Gusu, but he kinda is, if Lan Qiren was serious back then.  Lan Wangji is so upset and fearful that he's not really thinking clearly at this point. He loves Wei Wuxian and he's certain that cultivating with resentful energy will destroy him. [Note: he's not wrong, Wei Wuxian]  But Wei Wuxian is beyond fear. He's already been destroyed once.

Wei Wuxian rips on Gusu and then says, in a super-provocative way, that he prefers Yunmeng, which prompts Lan Wangji to say "don't joke around" as angrily as possible. 

This part of the interaction always confuses me because...shouldn't he prefer Yunmeng? He's actually from there and lives there and belongs there and stuff? He's just saying "I think I'll go with my brother" yet WWX and LWJ both act like he said he'd rather go to Demon City.

Lan Wangji takes a big step forward and Jiang Cheng blocks him while Wei Wuxian continues to act unperturbed and puzzled while holding his demon flute out in between them. 

Finally, FINALLY, Wei Wuxian calls him Lan Zhan, and asks him a serious question: What do you really want. Lan Wangji calms down for a second--although he keeps leaning into Jiang Cheng's sword block--and gets to the point, which is that the unorthodox path is dangerous, and harmful to his temperament.  

Kill one turtle together and you think you're the boss of me

So, these dudes are talking about 2 different levels of unacceptable cultivation, in this episode and the next few. Netflix translates these as "wicked tricks" and "crafty tricks," which both sound absolutely ludicrous in English, so I'm going to use my own preferred terms, going forward.  

I think what they are calling "Wicked Tricks," which includes spirit snatching and feeding people to the murder turtle on purpose in order to harvest their resentment could be translated as Heresy--adhering to a forbidden belief or practice; standing in opposition to Orthodoxy.  

Edit: After rewatching Episode 35, in which Nie Huaisang explains why their whole blade thing doesn’t count as “wicked tricks,” I’ve changed my mind about what to call this. NHS says that “wicked tricks” specifically involve the use of humans & human spirits (killing, sacrificing, etc.). Which means Necromancy is probably the better term for this particular type of cultivation, although it is still (also) Heresy. 

"Crafty Tricks," which is using resentful energy to raise and control already-dead people (ghosts and zombies) as well as just generally using resentment for basic stuff like beating Jin Zixuan's ass, could be translated as Heterodoxy--deviating from the accepted belief or practice, but not to the point of complete opposition.

Wei Wuxian laughs while Lan Wangji tries to be convincing, but since Lan Wangji is just repeating what he's been taught, he's not making much headway. Instead of saying "there's no exception throughout history" he could have, instead, gone with his own actual observations, such as "you are acting like a sadistic prick" or "you seem amazingly miserable" or "you aren't hugging your brother, what the fuck is that about?" But no.

Wei Wuxian responds to the charge of heresy by saying nuh-uh, and explains his methods, sort of, while going back to calling him Lan Er Gongzi. Lan Er Gongzi responds by actually literally yelling at him, and saying he's not allowed to decide for himself about what he's doing, as if the words "allowed to" have ever meant a goddamn thing to Wei Wuxian.

Temperament

At this point Wei Wuxian is done. He goes and gets right up in Lan Wangji's face and sticks a metaphorical knife right in his heart, smiling as he does it. "How do others know my temperament?" he asks; "and why should it be their concern?" i.e. you are not in my heart. 

This makes Lan Wangji so mad he calls Wei Wuxian "Wei Wuxian" for possibly the only time in the show, and he also flashes a whole bunch of angry teeth. (Gifset here). In a callback to the JFM-YZY fight back in Lotus Pier before the war, Wei Wuxian just calmly says "Lan Wangji" back at him, and then tells him to go fuck himself.

Jiang Cheng still doesn't understand what the fuck is happening, but this is a sentiment he understands, so he also tells Lan Wangji to go fuck himself, reminding him that Wei Wuxian is Jiang clan property and it's not the Lans' place to discipline him. Adding "and I'm not going to discipline him any way, look how good he is at killing people!"

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji continue to stare into each others' eyes from a distance so close that it really should lead to making out, but they are both much too angry for that. 

Wei Wuxian is as cold as we ever see him, smiling as he silently confirms: I do not belong to you. Lan Wangji glares back, his anger maybe finally giving way, a little bit, to being hurt.

Finish Him!

Wen Chao picks this moment to wake up and crawl over to the trio, begging Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng to save his life, since he presumably knows it's pointless to beg Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian turns around and gives him the EXACT SAME dead-eyed smile he just gave Lan Wangji, and kicks him.

Then he tells Lan Wangji to please leave so he and his brother can finish torturing this dude to death, and caps it with an official Jiang Clan eye roll.  

Lan Wangji, poor bb, just throws in the towel, and turns and leaves, the anger finally starting to leave his face and be replaced with something else...chagrin, maybe? Or maybe just softer anger, for the moment. 

After he's out of sight Wei Wuxian turns and looks after him sadly, all of the cruelty and hardness gone from his expression, while Wen Chao says "forgive me,"  possibly voicing what Wei Wuxian is thinking.

Lan Wangji walks out the front gate, troubled, and hears Wen Chao scream. He stops and replays the most pointed part of the fight in his head - the part where Wei Wuxian asked him, "who do you think you are?" Lan Wangji went into the fight believing he was completely right and was entitled to judge Wei Wuxian, but he's come out of it with his certainty shaken. 

Family Time

The Yunmeng brothers go to the ancestral shrine in Lotus Pier even though the whole "reclaiming Lotus Pier" scene doesn't happen until Episode 24. So apparently they just kind of sneak into the the shrine, and then sneak back out. Or, you know, continuity error.  Anyway Wei Wuxian is nothing if not adept at sneaking around death-related places.

Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng bow and offer incense. It's nice that the Wens didn't fuck up everybody's name plaques when they were in control of the place...or the tassels, candles, etc. 

Wei Wuxian quietly tells Yu Ziyuan and Jiang Fengmian that he did what they asked--taking care of Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli--and they can rest now. Nosy parker Jiang Cheng wants to know what he's saying, but Wei Wuxian just changes the subject. 

They talk about going to Qinghe for the final combat of the Sunshot Campaign. Wei Wuxian says that's why he returned, which...dude, you can't even pretend you came back to be with your loved ones? Ouch. Jiang Cheng doesn't really react to that, but he's happy when Wei Wuxian says he wants to see Jiang Yanli. Wei Wuxian wants to know if she's ok and if she's mad at him, and Jiang Cheng says wait and see, because direct answers are not the Jiang Clan way.

Jiang Yanli is helping tend to the wounded, and we see her telling a particularly fussy wounded dude to suck it up and stop complaining. 

When Wei Wuxian shows up she totally stops paying attention to the wounded dude so that she can smile at Wei Wuxian. 

He looks back at her tearfully, briefly managing to smile but then just trying to hold it together. He has been to hell and back, and doing his very best to hide it, but when he sees the person who loves him most--the person who will NOT spend 20 minutes yelling at him as soon as they see him--he starts to crack open.

[lingzhu]

thanks to the sunshot campaign kids

ca big fucking thank you for lan xichen, nie mingjue, jiang wanyin and jin guangyao for not starting a war and handling politics so much better than those who came before them. were they perfect? no. were they traumatized? YES

this. this is the generation who faught in the sunshot campaign. not lan qiren, not jiang fengmian, not jin guangshan. they were kids and they had to fight a war they never wanted to fight. 

they had to grow up so fast. they were kids what the fuck its so so so bad. 

nie mingjue was an about 25 year old orphan who had to become sect leader too early with an unstable qi and an even younger brother whom he just wanted to protect and be able to live his life. nie mingjue cared about so many people and died because of it in the end

lan xichen was an about 21 year old orphan who had become sect leader too early with an even younger brother who also had to fight in this war and so lan xichen could not even try to protect him. lan xichen had to rebuild a sect after his father’s death with barely any time to mourn. he was still kind in a war and tried to help people all he could and that’s what got him to his end

jin guangyao was beaten down again and again for his fucking heritage. did he always make the right choices? fuck NO he did absolutely not god. but is he understandable? yes so badly. and he cared for people. he did not want to start a war. was he the hero of the sunshot campaign? i mean kind of? what he did to nmj was.. bad. but he did kill wen ruohan and we should be thankful for it honestly. jin guangyao was a broken child who tried to make the world a little better and help normal people (the only other cultivators who cared about that were song lan, xiao xingchen and mianmian) he tried and tried to do right and thats what killed HIM in the end

jiang wanyin lost his core, his family, gained his brothers core and lost his brother and all that in what? two weeks??? he took over a sect at 17!!!! and was orphaned by a war he had nothing to do with. he went on his own to find his brother and rebuild his sect and i think we should all cut him some slack because this man is GOOD with politics. he managed to do a lot of things many people were not able to

also another few people should get probs here. -lan wangji for being a prominent figure in the sunshot campaign and helping jiang cheng to find wei wuxian, for being a traumatized KID who became a strong and good father figure to the next generation and who truly cared about those kids -nie huaisang for being one of the smartest and kindest people who had to take over a sect he never wanted to and managed to do it so well all his people never tried to work against him -jin zixuan for taking lanling forces and joining the sunshot campaign in his own choices despite his father not wanting him to and for trying to be nice to jin guangyao. he did not deserve his end -wei wuxian for all the trauma he suffered from such a young age and for becoming a better person throughout this story and trying his best even while breaking down

thank all the sunshot campaign kids who survived and had to live with their guilt and trauma and mourning without anyone to guide them. thanks to all the sunshot campaign kids who survived for making this world a better place than those who came before them. thank the sunshot campaign kids for ensuring a future for the next generation.

a generation who learned to fight against spirits and evil and will hopefully never have to fight people. compare the juniors to the sunshot campaign kids. they are living a life. thanks to them

[marzaid]

Ok but AU where Madam Yu kills Wen Zhuliu and Wang LingJiao before they could signal for the rest of the Wen troops. This gives the Jiang more time to prepare for the oncoming war that must be waged. Madam Yu becomes the general and steps out in front of her army to lead them and Jiang FengMian comes back only after everyone has already begun preparing for battle. Of course, he aids his wife but Madam Yu is the one largely in control of it. Jiang FengMian dies in battle as they take down the Wen. Wei Wuxian still uses Demonic Cultivation but not because it’s his only option but because he’s been dabbling for a while and so he uses a combo of regular and demonic cultivation. Jin GuangYao still kills Wen Ruohan and the Wen are taken down. 

Jiang Cheng rises as sect leader in the aftermath with his mom at his side guiding him and fighting alongside him. She is even harsher on Wei Wuxian now with Jiang FengMian dead but Wei Wuxian for once in his life keeps his mouth shut and bears it. When the Jin try to round up those Wen who took no part in the war, Wei Wuxian requests from Jiang Cheng and Madam Yu that they do something about it. Madam Yu is strict, cold, and terrifying but she does not believe in hurting or killing innocent people. With the Jiang sect backing him, Wei Wuxian is able to take the remainder of the Wen to Yiling and them up there. He still adopts A Yuan and still uses demonic cultivation but with the Jiang sect standing behind him, there’s not much the rest of the cultivation world can do. Madam Yu might despise that brand of cultivation but she knows that it is what helped them win and is their secret weapon, so if it saves her children and her people she is willing to turn a blind eye for the moment. That is just as long as he keeps it away from her children and doesn’t use it on them which Wei Wuxian quickly agrees to. 

The Jin under Jin GuangShan turn on the Jiang because of this and they try to frame Wei Wuxian for a bunch of crimes and murders. Jiang Cheng stands by his brother and surprisingly so does the Lan Sect. It’s unexpected but welcomed especially because the Twin Jades of Lan are equal in power and strength and ability to the Twin Heroes of Jiang. Jiang Yanli doesn’t fight wars but uses her budding romance with Jin Zixuan to go undercover in the Jin Sect. People think that she’s just pretty and docile but they don’t realize that she’s her mother’s daughter. She is a proud Jiang and will do whatever she can for her family and her sect. Using a secret code, she sends messages to Madam Yu. To anyone else it would just look like she was telling her mother about her romance with Jin Zixuan or the gardens or daily events. But the reality was that those letters held many secrets that give the Jiang and Lan the upper hand in the fight. 

Jin GuangShan dies in battle and Jin Zixuan rises as Sect Leader. Immediately, he surrenders and backs down from the fight which angers some but many more are just relieved to finally have a breath from fighting. After the many months of really getting to know Jiang YanLi, he realized he loved her and understood her cause and that the war between sects really was doing more harm than good for their people. Jin Zixun and Jin GuangYao are still furious about this development. The former because he hates Wei Wuxian with a passion but the latter because that foils his original plan to frame Wei Wuxian and rise to power.  

Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan get married and the Yunmeng bros learn to shut their mouths because their sister is happy. It turns out that Jin Zixuan is actually not that bad when he isn’t trying to prove that he’s the best thing in the world. He loves his new wife and treats her well. Even going as far as to make a lotus pond for him with his own hands. Their romance is not a tragic one this time. They have a son, Jin Ling about a year into their marriage and Wei Wuxian this time around does not kill his brother-in-law on the way to the one-month party. When he goes, he brings the gift that he made that would keep Jin Ling safe from curses and such. He also brings A Yuan, who has dubbed himself Wei Yuan, after being adopted by the man. Ever the sweet boy, he is excited to have a little cousin and tells his family that the two of them are going to be like the Twin Heroes of Jiang. Madam Yu even has a soft spot for him. They do in fact grow up close and have a similar relationship to Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian. A few years later, Jin Ling will have a little sister who he adores above all else and she will become a cultivator too.

They grow into the big happy family that they all deserve. 

Through all of this Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian have sidestepped their budding romance to the point that it’s eventually Madam Yu who steps in. She sits down with Lan Qiren, Lan Xichen, and Jiang Cheng and the five of them discuss WangXian. Since the two clans had such a good alliance in their fight first against the Wen and then again with the Jin, it’s decided that someone from each clan should marry. Jiang YanLi married Jin Zixuan and smoothed over that sect relation due to her love, they don’t really have any options. It’s unorthodox but it’s decided that Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji will be married. The two are happy that they’ll have the other but also sad because they think that the other doesn’t really love them. But they feel that they must do the duty for their sects. 

WangXian get married and A Yuan even takes part in the wedding. Part of the agreement for them getting married is that they split their time between Yiling and The Cloud Recesses. This works out well for a while. Yiling and the remainder of the Wen begin to prosper. People like Jin Zixun are furious about this and he leads a raid on the new town. Wei Wuxian rushes there to try to protect them since none of them except Wen Ning and Wen Qing have experience fighting and Wei Yuan is still a child. He ends up getting severely hurt and Wen Ning and Wen Qing take care of him the best that they can. Lan Wangji eventually gets there after dropping A Yuan with Lan Xichen for protection. When he gets to Wei Wuxian, he sees him beaten and in a coma from exhausting his spiritual power. Night and day he does not leave his side. He plays his guqin for hours on end. 

Wei Wuxian wakes up to A Yuan curled in his arms and a beautiful song being played by Lan Wangji in the background. He also in the background hears Jiang Cheng fighting with Wen Qing about the care his brother deserves. Jiang YanLi comes in with her famous soup husband and kids in tow. He aches and is exhausted but it’s in this moment that he realized he is truly blessed and he can’t help the stray tears that fall. Even Madam Yu glaring at him from the side of the room makes him happy. He lost his parents so early and fought so hard to prove himself but now everything’s come together. It’s after this that Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji finally talk about how much they love each other. Wei Wuxian in halting, stumbling words and Lan Wangji in rushed, flowing prose. 

Evil rises and falls but the extended Wei-Lan-Jiang-Jin family is ready.

[hamliet]

MXTX Ladies Week: MDZS

I did Scum Villain’s awesome female cast last night, and now it is time for my favorite of MXTX’s novels, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation. 

In MDZS, my main critique is that, while all of the female characters do get fantastic arcs, the vast majority of them die (though, granted, their deaths aren’t usually done just for the male characters’ sadness, but often do make sense for their own arcs. So that’s. Something. Still grumbly about it though). “The woman dies” is a similar trope to “bury your gays” and it’s... tiring. That said, I did find all the characters’ arcs incredibly well done. No one is fanservice; they are all complex and human.

I want to talk about the characters whom I haven’t talked about as much before, so that means less on SiSi and MianMian, as well as less on Madame Lan. See here for my meta on SiSi and MianMian, as well as here for my meta on Madame Lan. Throughout all of their arcs, there’s a common thread about calling out sexism. MianMian calls it out directly:

The person replied, “You’re...calling white black no matter how irrational it is. Ha, women will always be women.”

MianMian fumed, “Irrational? Calling white black? I’m just being considerate it as it stands. What does it have to do with the fact that I’m a woman? You can’t be rational with me so you’re attacking me with other things?”...

Holding in her tears, she shouted a moment later, “Fine! Your voices are louder! Fine! You’re the rational ones!”

She clenched her teeth and took off the crested robe she wore with force, slamming it onto the table with a loud bang. Even the sect leaders in the front rows, who weren’t paying attention to this side, turned around to see what happened. The ones beside her were indeed surprised. What she did meant that she was ‘leaving the sect’?

Soon, some began to agree, “Women will always be women. They quit just after you say a few harsh words. She’ll definitely come back on her own, a couple of days later.”

“There’s no doubt. After all, she finally managed to turn from the daughter of a servant to a disciple, haha…”

MianMian is looked down upon by the social hierarchy for being a woman and for being the daughter of a servant. Her lack of power against a sexist world is eventually countered by the fact that she’s one of the women who survive the novel, with a husband who follows her in night-hunting. As I said in my past meta, she steps outside a corrupt society.

Mistreated Wives Mistreating Children: Madame Jin and Madame Yu

Madame Yu is probably one of the most complex characters in the entire novel, which says a lot since she’s a minor character. But she and Madame Jin are said to be best friends who arrange the marriage of their children, and the two women are also foils. 

Both of them are mistreated by their husbands in a sense. Madame Jin has to deal with Jin GuangShan sleeping around and impregnating numerous other women, while Yu ZiYuan has to deal with the fact that Jiang FengMian clearly was in love with CanSe SanRen, not with her, and brought back CangSe SanRen’s child after Wei WuXian was orphaned. To be completely fair, Madame Yu’s dislike of and lack of respect for her husband is completely valid over this. However, what isn’t valid is her taking it out on all three of the kids at Lotus Pier. She abuses Wei WuXian and mentally abuses Jiang Cheng as well, and isn’t exactly awesome towards Jiang YanLi either. She constantly reminds Jiang Cheng that he can’t live up to Wei WuXian (projecting her own bitterness at not being enough to be loved like CangSe SanRen in her husband’s eyes), whom she despises for whom his mother was, and thereby exacerbates Jiang Cheng’s already deep insecurity issues (granted Jiang FengMian is responsible for this as well). But, she ultimately dies to save both Jiang Cheng and Wei WuXian, refusing to cut off his hand when she knows he is innocent. It doesn’t erase how she treated them while they lived, but it does add a level of complexity and tragedy: she knew Wei WuXian was powerless in these circumstances, as she had always felt, and she saves the kids before dying to defend Lotus Pier--with her husband, whom, it’s implied, did care about her but sucked at showing it. Almost like that’s a Jiang family trait.

Madame Jin is no better towards Jin GuangYao when he shows up. She did not object towards a child being kicked down the stairs on the basis of something he could not help, and Lan XiChen notes that she has him beaten regularly after he is accepted in the Jinlintai. Yes, she told off her husband for his arrogance, but she was trapped in her marriage with him and projected her pain onto someone who was not responsible for it (regardless of what Jin GuangYao did, she was abusing him). 

The point of both women isn’t that they’re horrible or that one is redeemed; it’s once again calling out the double standards and corrupt power structures at play. Jin GuangYao and Madame Jin are actually foils in that both abuse the power they have to target children who can’t help who their parents are (A-Song), because neither of them are able to truly demand justice from the person who is actually responsible: Jin GuangShan. 

The Bad Girls: Meng Shi, CangSe SanRen, and Madame Lan 

Or the women whom no one cared about enough to hear their stories. Madame Lan was a murderer and a parallel to Jin GuangYao and Wei WuXian as a result; the only way to save her life was to marry Lan WangJi and XiChen’s father. She’s noted to have been playful and fun, but she was only allowed to see her sons once a month, and she was confined her entire life, which is basically symbolic of how the cultivational society treats people: it traps them and isolates them.

CangSe SanRen is not described in much detail besides that, like Xiao XingChen, she left BaoShan SanRen to join cultivational society. Yet she still continued to flout its rules--cutting off Lan QiRen’s beard and marrying a servant instead of marrying a sect leader and gaining power. Rumors about her--that she had an affair with Jiang FengMian despite no evidence--and that she flouted society are then projected onto her son (symbolic of society’s unwillingness to change its corruption and power system)...

...which is just like how Meng Shi’s having been a prostitute is projected onto Jin GuangYao. People won’t even accept tea from him, believing his skin dirty on the basis of whom his mother was. However, everything we know about Meng Shi suggests she cared deeply for her son and chose to have him despite knowing what it would do to her popularity as a prostitute. Even when the other prostitutes comment about how she was a fool who kept hoping he would return, she still cared for her son and he repaid her by carving her face into the GuanYin temple’s idol. Jin GuangYao also expressly says that his father “wouldn’t buy [her] freedom,” implying that she did not have much of a choice about her lifestyle. Good job, society. Not. 

The Mean Girl: JiaoJiao

Okay, she’s kind of loathsome in personalty, petty and cruel and having an affair with an even crueler prince. Yet in a story that comments so much on privilege, it’s hard not to see her as a victim of circumstance as well; however, her proximity with the (then) pinnacle of corruption in Wen Chao and Wen RouHan means that she too misuses her power once she has it. She hurts innocents in Lotus Pier, she tries to kill MianMian just for being pretty, etc.

However, keep in mind that JiaoJiao’s prettiness is said to be what attracted Wen Chao to her, and it’s said that her family then received favors, such as the creating of their own sect. Her name is also noted by translators to be comparatively unsophisticated, implying that she likely came from a family that wasn’t exactly high up in society. None of this excuses her, but what exactly makes her fear of someone else being prettier than her and thus losing all the power she has (which she knew would happen eventually), and potentially her family suffering for it as well, all that much different than Jiang Cheng’s bitterness towards people more powerful in cultivation than him? Jiang Cheng had ShiJie and Wei WuXian and others to show him love and help him not become as cruel of a person (until she dies and then he does, indeed, torture people), but we know nothing about whether JiaoJiao had that. 

Desperate people cling to what they have. JiaoJiao, Wei WuXian, Jin GuangYao, and Jiang Cheng all show us this. It doesn’t excuse them, but neither does it mean they’re demons. 

Integrity and the Limits of Sacrifice: Wen Qing and Jiang YanLi 

Jiang YanLi and Wen Qing are in many ways the opposite of JiaoJiao: both are brave, kind women, and wonderful older sisters, even if Jiang YanLi is unassuming and Wen Qing bold. Both are inhibited by their power, though: Jiang YanLi’s talents are not cultivational in nature, and Wen Qing may be talented and brilliant as a doctor, but she is limited by her role all the same:

Lan XiChen responded a moment later, “I have heard of Wen Qing’s name a few of times. I do not remember her having participated in any of the Sunshot Campaign’s crimes.”

Nie MingJue, “But she’s never stopped them either.”

Lan XiChen, “Wen Qing was one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. How could she have stopped them?”

Nie MingJue spoke coldly, “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference. She shouldn’t have been so disillusioned as to hope that she could be treated with respect when the Wen Sect was doing evil and be unwilling to suffer the consequences and pay the price when the Wen Sect was wiped out.”

The thing is: she did try to stop some of them, helping Jiang Cheng and Wei WuXian, but Jiang Cheng doesn’t speak up for her. Sigh. 

Both of them are also foils in how they both ultimately sacrifice their lives to save Wei WuXian... and it turns out that their sacrifice doesn’t protect Wei WuXian. Wen Qing tells Wei WuXian the story’s catchphrase “thank you, and I’m sorry” before turning herself in for execution with her brother, but all this winds up in is the BurialMounds being seiged anyways, all her relatives except Wen Yuan being killed, and Wei WuXian still dying. Wen Ning, too, is not killed but is made a weapon. Jiang YanLi, despite Wei WuXian having led to the death of her husband, pushes him out of the way of a soldier looking to kill him, and gets killed instead. But this only results in Jiang Cheng becoming enraged and helping kill Wei WuXian, and Jin Ling being left an orphan. 

However, because MDZS has a pretty nuanced view on sacrifice, it’s neither pointless nor to be admired. Wei WuXian is both Wen Qing and Jiang YanLi’s foil in this: he, too, is self-sacrificial to a fault. The novel pretty clearly implies that self-sacrifice can be a form of self-harm, as it is for all three of them. Yet, all three of them have a defining trait of deep love that ultimately enables them to have legacies that continue: Wen Yuan, Jin Ling, even Wen Ning survive, and Wei WuXian is given a second chance at life. It’s not that their sacrifices were ultimately selfish and didn’t matter or shouldn’t have happened; it’s that, without an unjust society, they should not have had to happen. Wen Qing should not have been condemned on the basis of her name. Jiang YanLi should not have been killed because Wei WuXian should never have been seiged. And Wei WuXian should never have had to feel like he had to prove his worth (keep in mind Yu ZiYuan’s last words to him are literally that he should protect Jiang Cheng with his life). 

The Victims: Qin Su, Mo XuanYu’s Mother, and Madame Qin

In this house we stan Qin Su. 

Talk about a woman who goes after what she wants. She is said to have pursued Jin GuangYao after he saved her during the Sunshot Campaign, rather than the other way around. 

However, during the sunshot campaign, Qin Su had been saved by Jin GuangYao. She fell in love with him and never gave up, insisting that she wanted to be his wife. In the end, they finally drew the period on such a romantic story. Jin GuangYao didn’t let her down either. Even though he held the important position of Chief Cultivator, his behavior was drastically different from his father’s. He never took in any concubines, much less had a relationship with any other woman. This was indeed something that many wives of sect leaders envied.

And yet, again, because of circumstances beyond her control and because of the abuse of power, she can’t have happiness. Jin GuangShan raped her mother (seriously, he’s the very symbol of power abuse in relation to sexism in this novel), who is too ashamed to tell her husband that his best friend assaulted her. We can’t fault Madame Qin for staying silent, and with Qin Su already pregnant, it’s difficult not to empathize with Jin GuangYao for feeling trapped and marrying her anyways--though it is his fault for not telling her, and for killing their son, as Qin Su basically states that the dividing line for her is because Jin GuangYao killed A-Song, not because of their blood relation. 

After a moment of silence, Jin GuangYao answered, “I know that you won’t believe me, no matter what I say, but it was sincere, back then.”

Qin Su sobbed, “… You’re still speaking such blandishments!”

Jin GuangYao, “I’m speaking the truth. I’ve always remembered that you have never said anything about my background or my mother. I’m grateful for you until the end of my life, and I want to respect you, cherish you, love you. But, you have to know that even if A-Song hadn’t been killed, he had to die. He could only die. If we let him grow up, you and I…”

With the mention of her son, Qin Su couldn’t bear it any longer. With a raise of her hand, she slapped him on the face, “Then who’s the one that did all this?! Just what can’t you do for this position?!”

In some ways Qin Su and Madame Qin could be seen as a potential foil for Madame Jin and Madame Yu, in that they both loved children who were forced upon them, who would have been scorned in the world’s eyes, and defend their wellbeing and life. 

Mo XuanYu’s mother was sixteen when Jin GuangShan found her, and she was noted to herself be the illegitimate daughter of a servant--but her father was not scorned for this, yet she was scorned for having a son outside of wedlock.

the elder one was the daughter of his principal wife, looking for a husband to marry into the family, while the younger one was the daughter of a servant. The Mo family originally wanted to hastily give her to someone, but an adventure awaited her. When she was sixteen, the leader of a well-known cultivation family was passing by the area, and fell in love with her at first sight.

...In the beginning, the people of Mo Village regarded the topic with contempt, but because the Sect Leader* often helped out, the Mo family received plenty of advantages. And so, the direction of the discussions changed, and the Mo family took pride in the matter, while everyone else also envied the opportunity. 

She was respected only for the value she could bring a poor village. And then when Mo XuanYu was cast out of the Jin Sect, it’s noted that:

After he went back home dejectedly, he was bombarded with ridicule. The situation seemed like it was beyond redemption, and the second-lady of Mo was not able to withstand the blow, shortly choking to death because of the trauma.

Considering Mo XuanYu’s makeup is of a hanged ghost and the mention of how she died, it’s pretty likely that she hung herself. 

Mo XuanYu’s mother, just like Qin Su, commits suicide in the end to avoid a cruel society that would not respond to plights that were in no way their fault with anything but cruelty. Jin GuangYao notes that Qin Su would be the “laughingstock of the world” and soon after she grabs a dagger in which her soul would be trapped forever--a dagger originally owned by again The Symbol of Abuse of Power in Wen RouHan--and kills herself in a chamber of secrets (literally, a secret treasure vault, because she could not survive these secrets coming to light not keeping them silent). Just like Madame Qin, neither of them have anywhere to turn to for justice or for compassion. In the cultivational world, they are already disadvantaged for being women, and their tragic ends show again how disgusting the society in MDZS is. 

Hope and Bravery: A-Qing

Of course it’s not the righteous cultivator and it’s not the strongest in cultivation who is the hero who finally gets justice in Yi City. It’s the beggar girl who pretends to be blind, the thief, with no cultivation. A-Qing’s ghost may be blind and mute, but she sees and speaks more than any of them. Her empathy enables the heroes to figure out what happened in Yi City, and she is mourned and lauded for her bravery for it.

She has little power in the world, so she lies to get the money she can. But what she does have is love and loyalty that foils Lan WangJi’s (though I don’t believe in any way that it’s remotely implied this love for Xiao XingChen is romantic!) Even after Xiao XingChen’s death, even after her own physical dismemberment and death, she continues to look for justice for him, and this eventually pays off.

Further Hope: MianMian

I addressed this a bit in my meta with her, but MianMian’s happy ending comes outside of society, and includes her marrying a man who respects her autonomy and wishes:

Luo QingYang gazed at her husband, smiling, “My husband isn’t of the cultivating world. He used to be a merchant. But, he’s willing to go night-hunting with me…”

It was both rare and admirable that an ordinary person, and a man at that, would be willing to give up his originally stable life and dare travel the world with his wife, unafraid of danger and wander. Wei WuXian couldn’t help feeling respect for him.

And MianMian still has a keen observation: that society in the world hasn’t changed (which Wei WuXian will also note in the last chapter when they find a new scapegoat villain in Jin GuangYao):

Luo Qing Yang sighed, “Oh, these people…” She seemed as if she remembered something, shaking her head, “They’re the same everywhere.”

But as long as there are people willing to be empathetic, to believe in justice and be brave, who can combine these--like A-Qing, Lan WangJi, Wei WuXian, and more--there is hope for healing, even if it takes thirteen years.