#and the way gay men express femininity is very unique. its not just tied to sexuality its tied to gender as well

[calebwittebane]

wtf does "i love the way men love" like as in "i preform love in a way that is somehow tied to manhood as a concept" or "i love the way people who are men love" because both is kind of. nonsense

like every man loves differently. maybe im just too binary passing/stealth trans guy with a binary passing/stealth sister and a nonbinary older sibling. and 2 dads (not gay) but just . i don’t get what men as a concept has to do with love. maybe you love in a ""typically masculine" " way but that means 3 billion things to 1 billion people. idgi

it has to do with a poem by ada limón, about love expressed in ways deeply intertwined with one's past, expressed in ways that are hard to perceive or understand without said context. the quote comes from that poem.

the way the post continues on, with its examples, yes, we are talking about love expressed in a "masculine" way, not through words or outward warmth but through gestures that may not appear at first glance as tender but come from a place of worry and care nonetheless. ways that, again, are considered "masculine", because men are, of course, not supposed to express their love and worry softly, not supposed to appear sentimental or "sappy", and instead be pragmatic and hardened and not in touch with such "feminine" emotions

all of that is of course, HARDLY a thing specific to men, in actuality. i mean come on now. first of all the notion actually has very little to do with the poem, really. second of all, with how much its inaccurately associated with being a man, in ways that are clearly rooted in patriarchal notions, it devolves into like. the equivalent of going "its so amazing how men care about simple truth and facts and dont needlessly complicate things or get emotional". like. no? lol

like the fact that the post devolves into genuinely stating that theres some uniquely male way of loving that is especially Genuine because its not Overt and it is Pragmatic is completely absurd. like what is that... im sure someone might come up to me and say im looking for things to be offended by, that im doing a "omg everything is about me" thing, but the thing is my aversion to Blatant Displays Of Corniness is stronger than that

[nightswithkookmin]

still same anon. this was another one of my asks from months ago. basically it was a comment I made about jikook's intimacy. it was from this interview: https://youtu.be/T--BOS8oTec the moment I'm talking about happens from 3:00 minute timestamp onwards. i was saying how despite this moment being "skinship" or whatever, it kinda hit different? there's also intimacy there. bc you see how jimin doesn't have to say anything and jungkook immediately understands what to do and starts massaging his neck. jimin literally threw a glance at him, tilted his neck a lil and jungkook didn't need a second more to know what to do. I wanted to talk to you about it since I know that you're not big on skinship defining jikook's relationship, but I think there ARE jikook skinship moments worth noting and this is one of them imo.

Oh ok. Thanks.

SKINSHIP IN CONTEXT

I think skinship by it's very definition is an intimate act depending on the level of familiarity between the parties involved in the act.

From my understanding of skinship, it's basically interactions that would otherwise be viewed as sexual outside of their culture but viewed as acceptable platonic behavior between the same sex or even the opposite sex.

The objective of skinship is to be intimate with another person on a level that's only next to romance.

I remember my sister telling me how shook she was when she found out for the first time, around 2011 when she first moved to Seoul, how she couldn't even keep her pants on at a 'Jimjirban' because all the gals in there were expected to walk around butt naked in the spa. No towels, no pants, no robes butt nakedttt.

'Mehn, this doesn't happen where I'm coming from' she said to her companion.

A. I'm black.

B. I'm not flat.

C. I'm wearing my pants.

Her very naked friend, a native SK, whom she says she'd only met for like a week, then grabbed her underwear and pulled it down her thighs exposing her deforested vagina to the winds and a dozen other curious gazes. All females.

'For a second, I thought I had been tricked into an orgy of a sort. I was very naked without my consent. Wind whistling through my shy butt cracks. Watching very naked females of varying ages stare on with pride and smiles on their faces as if I had just saved a village or something and when I jiggled when I walked I could hear them gasp, amazed- Goldy, how is this not gay?'

'You think skinship between their men is weird, wait till you see their women. Wait till a very attractive Korean girl is breathing down your neck and caressing your nape and complementing your skin while showing you pictures of her boyfriend on her phone.'

She says it took her a while to get used to the skinship between women in SK and seeing the men interact in a certain way messed with her brains for a while. She said she felt her intelligence was being played with most of the time.

I guess if you want to look at Jikook's skinship as intimate then there's nothing wrong it.

Skinship is intimate at the very least.

But skinship, for all intent and purposes, is platonic and nonsexual in nature. And maybe this is a fatal flaw on my part. Or maybe thanks to my sister, I'm desensitized to this form of interaction but I have a hard time seeing Jikook's intimacy as platonic or even seeing most of their skinship as romantic- in anyway. It will make sense in a bit, hold on.

I have a hard time equating skinship with romantic intimacy. But that's just me.

I wasn't able to click on the link you sent but I'm guessing this is the moment you are talking about?

I wouldn't call this skinship. I mean it is but I wouldn't call it that. Skinship is meant to show how close two people are. How familiar they are with eachother.

This doesn't show how close Jikook are. But It shows how caring and affectionate JK is as human being, as a dongsaeng, and as a boyfriend.

I'd rather we celebrate that. JK doesn't get highlighted enough. He caters to the people he cares about. He is an attentive person.

Hate to be a grinch but I can pull up a couple of times JK has done that very gesture with Jin or Tae or Hobi. Remember Soop? Remember when Jin complained of feeling cold and JK went up to him immediately and 'warmed' him up?

Of course, Jimin kept stealing glances at him like he could throw a shoe at the back of his head if he could but that's beside the point.

The man is an empath. He's said several times he feels a lot of pain watching his hyungs go through it. Fact is, Jk cares about people. He's kind, loving and he shows this aspect of him through gestures like these.

He does it for Jimin. He does it for all the members because as he's said, they are all a family.

It's stressful hearing people claim he doesn't give a fuck about Jimin, that he doesn't care about JM because he shows affections for others besides JM.

At some point we would have to make a distinction between what acts flows from their unique personalities because of who they are at their core and what act flows from them being a couple.

Most people who see Jimin as a natural nurturer and what not are able to separate this identity from his ship moments but JK isn't accorded the same privilege. It is why most people are quick to lash out at him when he interacts with others in the same way he interacts with Jimin.

When JM acts nurturing towards V or RM or Suga he is seen a good, kind person.

When JK does something affectionate it's seen as a beautiful Jikook moment or Taekook moment or Jinkook moment and is soon swept under the carpet, soon forgotten and never tied to the personality of JK- perhaps because most of these shippers don't care to know who JK is as a person and as a human.

When Jimin does something affectionate its 'awww Jimin is such an amazing person' even if that act is merely performative sometimes.

I try not to engage in conversations that perpetuate this horrifying discrimination against either of Jikook. They are both individuals.

There are a lot of Asks sitting in my box highlighting the various ways JM is awesome and kind and amazing as s boyfriend to JK and not a single out of 500 plus posts talking about how empathetic JK really is. How thoughtful he is to even pack motion sickness drugs to go on trips even though he doesn't get motion illness and JM is the one that often complains about motion sickness on trips.

The heteronormative lens, on opposite ends of the spectrum in the shipping community, which dictates we perceive on Jikook as either feminine or masculine is a telltale sign of the misogyny and misandry prevalent within this fandom.

The fandom's heteronormative lens filters Jimin as the wildly feminine archetype, wildly fragile, sexy and womanly right down to the way we praise him as the 'good woman' in his relationship with JK- loyal, faithful, nurturing, kind, silent in that he continues to perform Jikook even when Jikook are not in a great place. etc.

Yet because he is seen as womanly or feminine, the part of the fandom that hates women hate Jimin. That's where all the slut shaming, bullying and harassment stems from- misogyny.

Jk is viewed as the opposite of that. By most, he is very masculine man and as such harbors all the traits of masculinity the modern woman detests- toxic masculinity, cheating, disloyal, fuckboy who treats women like shit. All forms of hatred and intolerance towards men is projected on to him especially by male intolerant people or dare I say feminist women within the fandom.

And you see them in the way they are always fighting for Jimin against JK as if Jimin were a fragile faithful woman whose man don't treat him right thus further perpetuating the heteronormative stereotypes of Jimin.

What's disconcerting is Jikook are both men and yet depending on how their masculinity or femininity is perceived, they are both treated very differently.

You hear Tuktukkers talk about how Jikook is as a result of heteronormativity and thus prescribe Taekook as the ideal homonormative ship- because to them, Tae and JK are both seen as two whole men.

To them Jimin is just not man enough to even be gay- isn't that the foundation of homophobia?

Gay men not seen as men at all?

Whereas amongst Jokers, Jimin's manliness is often forgiven and JK's is abhorred. Jk is too much of a man and men just ain't shit.

This may sound like an over simplification but Tuktukkers hate women, Jokers hate men and either side suck. In my opinion.

Jimin is a nurturer he cares about people including his boyfriend. JK is an empath he feels the pain of those close to him including his boyfriend and is often moved to ease or take away some of that pain.

It's thus annoying to hear people out here yell and complain on every turn each time JK interacts with the others how JK 'doesn't act exclusive' with Jimin or how he doesn't care about Jimin.

Should he not care about anyone besides Jimin just because he is dating Jimin?

It's annoying when they say the same about Jimin. Jimin nurtures everyone ergo there's nothing special or exclusive about the way he nurtures JK.

Nonsense such as these are spewed without taking into account that those acts in themselves speak directly to who these people are as human beings first and foremost; secondly, to how they feel about the person at the recieving end of their affections.

If they are treating everyone the same it's probably because they love everyone too- in a non romantic way of course. It's their love language. They love others with the same heart they love eachother with.

It doesn't take away from how they feel about eachother. JK admiring another member does not mean when he admires Jimin it's nothing. It just mean he admires Jimin too.

Not everything has to be romanticized or given a romantic context. They are each expressing themselves and their feelings for their bandmates. It's about them not their bandmates or their relationship with said bandmates.

Certain moments are just attestation to their love language be it platonic or romantic and it says more about who they are as people than what their relationship with the other person is. It's not all about their relationship.

People need to start treating Jikook as individuals. They are humans first before a ship. Shipping them shouldn't take away from their authentic expressions of self.

That's how they each end up getting cussed out in these streets left and right.

It's ridiculous.

This is JK being JK. Imma leave it at that.

This is from the same interview where Tae was talking about how they love showcasing their bond.

It's ok to celebrate it. Just see it for what it is- as flowing from JK's kind self. This is not Jikook. This is JK. Jeon Jungkook.

Don't fume or act disappointed when you see him do the same kind gesture for another member just because of the meaning you are imposing on this moment. Know what I mean?

That being said, there are certain Jikook 'skinship' moments that crosses the line of skinship right into sexual foreplay.

If 'skinship' leaves you 'sexually excited' it's not skinship. Nobody can tell me nothing.

Make of this moment what you will. Just be responsible with it. I think. But don't mind me. I'm grumpy.

Signed,

GOLDY

[a-new-lesbian-flag-blog]

It’s Lesbian Visibility Day– Lesbians Deserve An Inclusive, Easily Reproduced, and Symbolic Flag to Stand Under!

Oh boy, yet another flag proposal... What’s wrong with the flags that already exist, anyway??

No decently circulated lesbian flag currently meets all of the standards that must be met to make a pride flag great– a pride flag design needs to be inclusive, easily reproduced, and symbolic to be able to become a widespread, representative icon of a community!

What’s wrong with the labrys design? 

The labrys design was created in 1999 by a gay man. Having a lesbian flag that wasn’t even created by a lesbian is a glaring issue by itself, but a second reason many lesbians have rejected this flag is because of its association with TERFs, which stand for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists, a group of people that do not believe trans people are the gender they identify as, and wish to exclude trans people, especially trans women, from the LGBT community and feminist movements. 

What’s wrong with the seven striped pink flag design? 

This flag design is made almost entirely out of very specific shades of pink. These shades are extremely hard to translate into physical dyes, fabrics, and other materials used to create pride designs, causing the flag to be inaccessible to many people. Also, the flag was originally intended to be representative only of lipstick lesbians– many lesbians do not identify with this flag because of the very feminine design as many lesbians do not subscribe to traditional feminine roles and presentation. Also, the creator of this flag has made many racist, butchphobic, and biphobic comments on her personal blog, which is yet another reason why an increasingly large portion of the lesbian community has rejected this flag. 

What about this flag with the orange on top and pink at the bottom? 

I really appreciate this flag for its goal to step away from the exclusive femininity of the ‘lipstick lesbian’ flag and incorporate some deeper symbolism into the design. But there are still some issues with it that remain– one of which is that it does not fix the issue of accessibility/ease of reproduction. The shades of orange and pink are still extremely similar to each other which again, makes it very hard to replicate with dyes/fabrics/other materials. Not even the five-striped variation of the flag fixes this, as the shades of orange and pink are still very specific and are still two different shades of the same color. A pride flag needs to be able to be replicated with limited material options in order for it to be fully accessible and become widespread in the community and beyond. There is also the issue that the two-tone design of the flag is mainly meant to represent butches/femmes. Butch and femme culture is absolutely an extremely important and historical aspect of the lesbian community– but it is not everything the community encompasses. There are many lesbians that do not identify with butch/femme, and this flag leaves those people out. 

What about any other design already out there? 

This is not meant to be a bash on any individuals that have taken the initiative and courage to propose their own designs to the community– the community-wide effort to design a new lesbian flag is what inspired my own! But no proposed flag I’ve ever seen out there has met all three criteria that is needed to make a pride flag successful and widespread, and those are again, inclusivity, ease of reproduction, and symbolism. 

Okay, what’s this new flag look like? 

Many things were considered in the design process of this flag. 

It could not be overly feminine (no major focus on pink, no pastel shades)

It needed to be easily reproduced (no multiple shades of colors, no obscure colors, no complex symbols)

 It needed to incorporate historical and cultural symbolism in every design element (more on that later)

It would not focus solely on one aspect of the lesbian community (not just on femininity, not just on butch/femme, et cetera.)

What do the stripes symbolize? 

Red, embodying passion and bravery– our loud voices and larger-than-life legacies, our bullheadedness and righteousness, our anger and joy and liveliness that is infused in every facet of the lesbian community, and every soul that calls themselves a part of it. 

Orange for integrity and hearth; our wholeness despite the notion that a woman's life is incomplete without a man, as well as the home and sense of belonging we find in our identity and community. It is rejecting the notion that lesbians are cold, harsh, and untrustworthy. This stereotype is especially aimed at butch/masculine presenting lesbians, which is why the stripe also represents butches. 

White symbolizes our inherent rejection of dichotomy in multiple senses of the word. Lesbians are not tied to the patriarchal and heteronormative standard of male versus female in our relationships, lifestyles, or identities. We reject traditional standards of both masculinity and femininity to instead establish our own unique methods of presentation and identity that cannot be tied to a binary norm. It also rejects the notion that lesbian love is automatically dirtier and more lustful than heterosexual love. It is not a coincidence that the purity stripe also represents trans and nonbinary lesbians– this is rejecting the notion that the lesbianism of trans and nonbinary individuals is somehow invalid, lesser or diluted compared to the lesbianism of a cis woman. In the current political climate surrounding many lesbian circles today, I found it more necessary than ever to impress the fact that trans and nonbinary lesbians are just as representative of the lesbian community as cis lesbians, and their inclusion is critical in honoring and acknowledging the community at large.

Purple, the color of violets and lavender, for our history: our lesbian predecessors who dedicated their lives in making the achievements of today possible, our traditions and symbols that have been passed on, redefined, and expressed through every new generation. The purple stripe acknowledges the contributors to lesbian achievement of yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Black– resilience and certainty, grounding our identities and community in the foundation of knowing we are exactly where we are meant to be in life, and that our identities are an inherent, permanent, and powerful facet of who we are as human beings. It rejects the notion that lesbians are confused or unstable in their identity, or that they are wrong or broken for not loving men. It also rejects the notion that a “gay lifestyle” is inherently unstable or unsustainable– lesbians are just as capable of marrying, settling, and living comfortably and happily as a straight person is.

I really like this flag! What can I do to support it? 

Spread it any way you can! 

Reblog this post! Non-lesbians are absolutely welcome to– in order to make a pride flag universally known, it has to be seen by *all* members of the community!

Make the flag your profile picture! (I will make free edits of the flag with any character/icon/other pride flag upon request! Just send an ask! Examples of edits I’ve done previously will be posted on this blog soon!)

Go to the twitter and instagram for the flag! 

Like/retweet/repost the flag on your accounts!

Make irl pride art and show it off! 

Tell your friends! 

I hereby release this design of a new lesbian flag into the public domain. Anyone may reproduce, distribute, or use the flag design, including selling merchandise for profit! The last thing I want to happen is for the circulation of this flag to end up entirely based on one social media platform or occur strictly online. I intend for this flag to be able to be displayed and flown in online and real life spaces alike, by lesbians of all different backgrounds, experiences, cultures, locations, and ages. 

Finally, there is a website that goes even further into describing the design process behind the flag and the symbolism incorporated into it! All the information about the flag has been included on this website so all anyone needs to do to help spread the word is share this link!!!   

❤️❤️❤️ Lesbians deserve a flag that represents *all* of us and can be spread to be seen by the entire community! I need YOUR help in making this flag known! Thank you so much for your time in reading and your support! ❤️❤️❤️

[maneaterwithtail]

undefined

I disagree at least one aspect.

How about this I've been thinking about introducing a character who is male and uses a traditional form of Viking magic that was noted to make or require men to act or appear as women this is Even tied into certain myths about Odin and how he was presented.

This however would understandably change both the history presentation and what have you of the Asgard in Marvel Comics. This is very important because if we want ad and more gay characters then we by necessity add in the entire identity of being gay. And with that gay subculture, gay history, and gay politics. All of which is going to be relevant in one degree or another to their life. And some of this stuff isn't directly political just so much as it's so in congruous from common assumption that it's going to be in contrast and conflict to both the established narratives of the fiction and the expectations of the audience

This is going to be necessary point. A need for this Single Character to be a gateway to Gay Culture or gay lifestyle where previously none existed for the world.

But this isn't just a burden it's also an opportunity I mean how have or how do the Asgard and Marvel Comics handle people being gay? In fact because of how gay has been erased in our society and how it by its own existence undermines a lot of social narratives kind of requires a more nuanced and complex way of viewing the world just to bring up even if the basic idea is very simple to get across - the idea of someone preferring their own gender in terms of romantic Pursuits. But that often has a knock-on effect with the number of people who we know for one thing also actually being gay. And this isn't just surface-level sketches. I mean remember finding Mary Poppins? The author of that book was a lesbian but in a supposed true story biopic this wasn't depicted. Erasure is a phenom a gay character contends

This is kind of the problem with increased representation it by necessity means disturbing pre-established narratives. Unfortunately this likely means your character is going to be or highly defined by their own Identity or have to import a lot of pre under stood identity politics or social narratives just by being a focus of distinction.

Now personally I think superhero comics are not well suited for this because a core of their appeal is action as opposed to drama or Romance. Having a coming-of-age drama deal with the fact that one or two or all of your characters are not straight or cisgendered is completely easy. After all the change of identity as you come to yourself as a large part of coming-of-age drama, so learning that you have an attraction to the same gender or that you may have be different gender expression easily slots into the beats and expectations of that

Unfortunately action-based conflicts don't exactly allow or are not well suited for dealing with struggles with being a minority even if you're past the hardships that are so going to inform where your character ended up in life. Not every person who's gay has trouble with their parents. But it's at the very least a very common and unique circumstance. There's going to be history there.

there's going to be weight there and it's such a large part of the gay identity that a large part of gay identity literature and politics centers around this reality. For instance part of the reason why intersectionality in terms of social justice or socialism has such a gay bent is because the implication that you can rely on traditional support structures such as church or family is not something that can be safely assumed if you've been gay for the last 50 years. There have been active campaigns to get rid of support network and infrastructure for gay communities. Or just dismissal so subject to crime and abuse. And traditional mainstream ones have actively excluded them such as the conflicts with the Salvation Army or other homeless shelters.

This is despite the fact that if you were a teenager and homeless chances are it's because you are LGBT and you've been kicked out of your home. This is especially important as you try to tackle social issues as a means of conflict and superheroes have been doing that longer than we've been recasting this character or that character as gay or black.

Finally there's just the fun in world-building what kind of gay community exists in a world where Captain America has been real since World War II. Has there been for instance at Revival of pagan beliefs with the onset of Thor? What kind has there been in what relationship do the asgardians have with it? They started to address some of this in one of the reboots of Thor but admittedly that was how they conflicted with conservative Christians in the Midwest. How do the actual Pagan face revivals that have been happening in Scandinavian countries intersect with the arrival of the MCU asgardians not least of which they don't fit the traditions and faith but may have inspired them or rip them off

These are all interesting plot threads but they grow from drama and not action. So I think in some ways superhero comics are trying to transition from action to more alternative Fantastical dramas. And considering that's been a big draw in terms of television and movies from Game of Thrones to Supernatural to God knows what else such as the Hunger Games Twilight The Vampire Diaries

and finally yeah some traditions do need to be attacked. The idea that everyone is straight except for a few crazy people who are gay who we should ignore at all times... it's probably at the heart of a lot of abuse. Whereas assuming queer Theory as a foundational truth meaning that not everyone is straight and gender and sexuality don't work as they have been traditionally thought of it's probably an okay thing especially as it's something that's understood to be the reality of the current zeitgeist as well as the audience.

Even people who consider themselves straight likely have had one or two phases of bisexuality or experimenting with gender. At the very least it's easier because everyone can pick a female Avatar. Or activities that are associated with being feminine are thought of as more gender-neutral such as fashion makeup romance or what have you

at the very least tapping into this thing that the young which is a major part of comics, it can't always just be to old people and how they see the world, it's important to give that a chance. especially as sexuality and gender identity are actual character traits whereas race is a bit more superficial unless we're talking about Heritage or more along the lines of ethnicity. for instance take Kamala Khan, for the most part I think she's a good character. Now there are bit pieces where things feel a little on-the-nose but it is very much aimed at a younger audience that comes from an ethnically diverse neighborhood they probably want someone to address the racial tensions that they've grown up with not least of which have been the issues with how Muslims are perceived and how their own culture and traditions have a plurality under a dome that's often reacted to hostilely

Finally some of its just adjustment both for the fans and the authors. I mean how did you really feel about Miles Morales when he first started? how did people react to him? you needed time to adjust to the idea that Peter got killed off and replaced with this guy who was very deliberately something of a token hire. and Brian Michael Bendis needed time to actually write a distinct character with his own feel and interesting ideas

finally listen to the music that kids are listening to ,read the web comics that they follow, or the Twitter discussions that they do and especially the manga that they're following and how they discuss it. I really do think that if we want Comics to remain they're going to have to change and one of those changes are going to have to be how they can appeal more to modern audiences, females, and yes trans

And some of this is going to require the characters in the world that they inhabit change in terms of assumption and presentation. There need to be gay and trans people as a community in a society that's so obvious that it's something that you discussing kindergarten without it being treated as exposing them to porn