#and with orym it's like yes the care is there we can talk abt the care. but lets not ignore how opposed they are on so many things

[caeslxys]

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but it feels relevant again in light of the most recent episode. Something that’s really fascinating to me about Orym’s grief in comparison to the rest of the hells’ grief is that his is the youngest/most fresh and because of that tends to be the most volatile when it is triggered (aside from FCG, who was two and obviously The Most volatile when triggered.)

As in: prior to the attack on Zephrah, Orym was leading a normal, happy, casual life! with family who loved him and still do! Grief was something that was inflicted upon him via Ludinus’ machinations, whereas with characters like Imogen or Ashton, grief has been the background tapestry of their entire lives. And I think that shows in how the rest of them are largely able to, if not see past completely (Imogen/Laudna/Chetney) then at least temper/direct their vitriol or grief (Ashton/Fearne/Chetney again) to where it is most effective. (There is a glaring reason, for example, that Imogen scolded Orym for the way he reacted to Liliana and not Ashton. Because Ashton’s anger was directed in a way that was ultimately protective of Imogen—most effective—and Orym’s was founded solely in his personal grief.)

He wants Imogen to have her mom and he wants Lilliana to be salvageable for Imogen because he loves Imogen. But his love for the people in his present actively and consistently tend to conflict with the love he has for the people in his past. They are in a constant battle and Orym—he cannot fathom losing either of them.

(Or, to that point, recognize that allowing empathy to take root in him for the enemy isn't losing one of them.)

It is deeply poignant, then, that Orym’s grief is symbolized by both a sword and shield. It is something he wields as a blade when he feels his philosophy being threatened by certain conversational threads (as he believes it is one of the only things he has left of Will and Derrig, and is therefore desperately clinging onto with both bloody hands even if it makes him, occasionally, a hypocrite), but also something he can use in defense of the people he presently loves—if that provocative, blade-grief side of him does not push them—or himself—away first.

(it won’t—he is as loved by the hells as he loves them. he just needs to—as laudna so beautifully said—say and hear it more often.)

[astralleywright]

ngl i think ashton is treated the same as beau was. people laud their character development of becoming nicer when it's really a cover for "finally, they're not a hysterical angry bitch anymore!" which you can tell because a vast swath of post-campaign content assigns beau the role of "background lesbian". obviously ashton is not a woman nor a lesbian but i do remember people more or less ignored them until they started to be nicer, and thus more palatable and shippable with laudna or orym

yeah lol i mean i remember seeing so many "oh i like Ashton now???" posts in the tag in the last 15 or so eps, especially after their post-reunion sea change. which like on one hand, fine! i cannot blame anyone for not vibing with someone clearly meant to be caustic and offputting, both on a character creation level and also as an intentional front in-character, even if Ashton and i are similar enough that it's like, i do not think you'd like me in real life, or at least me from 5 years ago. and i think it's based and epic to like characters who suck so bad, and i think some people just refuse to engage further with a character who is unlikeable or overtly flawed, which is how we get people who stan the Only Sane Man Moral Compass Hero's Journey version of Orym. but i also get that there’s a difference between a character being unlikeable in a way that's appealing and a character being unlikeable in a way that one personally finds fucking unbearable. it's a noble and difficult goal to enjoy and analyze a character in the latter category (this is a grand experiment i'm trying with FCG), so like if ppl can't do it i prefer them not saying anything until they have something nice to say, i guess.

But with all that being said, there are still big obvious chunks of Ashton's story that ppl mostly ignore or brush over. Namely their recent antipathy towards the gods, interest in the primordials not just for backstory reasons but as a source of identity and meaning, and reclaiming of Hishari imagery. i think there's this assumption that the ideas and beliefs Ashton is embracing right now are a temporary stop to his real destination as like, Champion of the Luxon Who Thinks The Gods Are Alright? or at least, if not a response to where they think he's going, then one to where they want him to go, because they think the persepctives he's currently embracing are Inherently Bad and Incorrect and that the narrative should/will correct him. (shoutout to the post i saw that suggested Ashton's hero arc was a reaction to them realizing they did the wrong thing in Hearthdell but not wanting to admit it lol. amazingly bad post)