#anthy leaving at the end is not because she realizes that she doesn't love akio anymore

[transmascutena]

not a fan of when people claim that akio and anthy don't "really" love each other. like idk man have you considered that love and abuse are not mutually exclusive polar opposites and that this may be a pretty significant part of the show's themes. you can abuse someone because you love them, and you can love someone despite their abuse. this in fact happens often. would be nice if it was as simple as "bad people don't feel love because love is inherently good" like some people make it out to be but it's not

[continentaltheater]

Something many ppl could ask themselves is why is touga alive if he's dead and many ppl could go the easy route of saying that he's only dead in the movie.

The thing is, he's not, he's not only dead in the movie, he has always been dead in all Utena media. Touga saved Utena from drowning by drowning himself in the first chapter in the manga, in the anime Juri tells the story of the boy that drowned trying to save a girl, to which the camera focuses on Touga, and in the movie we see it.

So why is Touga 'alive' if he's dead? For the same reason Akio is, he's the ideal of a prince, he's alive because there's people in this world that clinger to that idealized version of him.

Anthy and Utena cling to Akio. Utena, Saionji and Nanami cling to Touga.

Anthy clinged to his brother for when they were kids, her prince and tried to save him, failed and now that same prince is dead and has been for a long time. That dead prince walks among the living now corrupted and trying to fill the role of a prince that cannot be filled.

Utena clings to the ideal of the prince who saved her and the same role she would imitate. And on the other side of the coin, Utenas ideal of the prince is at conflict with Touga, mixing in her memory two different people that made the first moves so that she could leave her first coffin, thinking now that Touga could have been her prince and gifting him that role too.

Saionji clings to the memories of Touga, his best friend, the one above him, better than him, the one that's better at kendo, more popular, braver, smarter, the one who he shared his childhood with.

And Nanami, oh Nanami, she clings to a fake constructed memory of a perfect brother, the one and only perfect man in her life, the brother who played with her, the one that cared about her, unlike her parents, and clings to the one thing that made her special, family bonds.

She's also the only one that remembers a short haired Touga, no other character remembers Touga like that, whether he ever had short hair before arriving to his adoptive parents house or if it's a reminder on how distorted Nanami's memories are I can't say for sure.

But that ideal is fake and it gets destroyed completely as we progress in the story. Utenas rejects Tough as his prince and fights for herself, Saionji realizes that Touga wasn't the top of the chain, he too could be overpowered, he could act irrationally too, he wasn't perfect, he could love.

And Nanami gets the worse, first thinking the only thing that made her special was fake, she wasn't her sister and as such then she's nothing to him, that it was their parents that urged Touga to treat her like a brother, realizing what her relationship could have become that went far from a familiar bond and of course, thanks to Akio, crossing that same boundary in the Chairman's Car.

In the end, in a world when only Utena was clinging to him he seemed more like a ghost than him. Nanami doesn't exist as we know her, Saionji and the rest of the Council doesn't seem to remember him and in the end, once Utena let go, he disappeared.

Once the ideal memory died he finally died too.

[cafeleningrad]

Shout out for Fuchizaki Yuriko's voice acting always nailing Anthy's tone on the head. Especially in the last conversation with Akio.

Anthy has finally a glimpse of a world without and outside of Akio's grasp. A 14 year old girl who was blindsided and mislead could still see through all the deceptions, and opened the Rose Gate at the first try where Akio failed since countless years. Proving how Akio's endeavors and methods failed over and over again without changing a bit. That means that his inability to change made her suffering pointless, how he deliberately fooled around with inexperienced, manipulated girls, fancy sports cars whereas she had to shallow up all her anger, rage, and grief. All the time Akio made her feel guilty for his innocence lost, he'd rather be dead than question himself like a sulking child. All the time Anthy knew that things were wrong, she was deeply miserable, she was made guilty, as if this was her rightful punishment for taking the Prince of the world, ironically she knows that the existence of the prince in the world means misery, the death of kindness in boys, the end of happiness and freedom for girls, but maybe, maybe, maybe if Akio got the power of Dios back, would that suffering have had a reason? And maybe that toll of suffering is the only bit of affection left from the only person who once loved her... With the final confirmation that it was all pointless, now Anthy realizes she has a right to feel anger, actually yes she was right the existence of the Prince was wrong, things wouldn't get better if Dios reawakened, Dios was wrong all along. Love isn't how Akio treats her like but love is Utena's smile, them laughing together about Chuchu's antics, spending uneventful days under a tree, being able to utter wishes for more friends, learning how to cook (even if Utena is clumsy she's happy if Anthy can be happy), believing again that families and support should not be hurtful but a source of safety and comfort. Love is Utena and her baring their most vulnerable, ugliest, hurt, and beautiful selves, still none backs away, the love doesn't fade. All this misery is now anger for all the time Anthy got wronged, guilttripped, and denied of her personhood.

But Akio is also so pathetic. All of that suffering comes from an adult man who actually can't grow up. He confined himself to his childhood self, is unable to imagine anything else but his boyhood, his own ego has more priority than appreciating the deep connection to another person, he can neither understand not appreciate the experience of comradery and comfort in not being alone. Akio can't answer a simple question what all the big words he uses means; actually he uses big words because they sound ethereal without understanding them. His entire world is the limited space of a school campus, that's all the world is? Plays with sports cars like a little boy's idea of what is a cool adult. And that was the person Anthy had to endure multiple circles of hell for? That pathetic excuse of a person?

In these few lines nail down the tone of liberating realization, anger, deep anger, wrestling down her own hurt of leaving the brother she once loved because Anthy herself has a right to happiness, and disdain for someone so immature all at the same time: "By all means stay in your cozy coffin." Burn!

[gamesception]

lets read rgu, chapter 22

Just kissed, eh? I wasn't sure if the next chapter would imply that more had happened between Utena and Akio that night. And here's Utena dreaming fitfully about it, while Anthy just sits up awake in bed watching her. I don't have much to say about it other than the whole situations just kind of sad.

But Anthy doesn't just sit up and watch utena, she gets out of bed and goes to her while utena is sleeping, lying with her and crying quietly. It's a very tender, intimate moment.

And in that moment, Utena stops thinking about Akio, and instead only thinks about how she wants to protect Anthy.

Which calls to mind the anime's version of young Utena meeting the prince. First we see that she was grieving her parents death, and the prince appeared to her and made her feel better and inspired her to become a prince herself so that she could help others the way he had helped her. But then later on we get the further reveal that she hadn't just been grieving her parents, she was experiencing an existential crisis in the face of their death, that if everything ends and everyone dies then she couldn't see the value of living at all, and that young Saionji and Touga had found her and tried to cheer her up, as the prince had in the earlier version, but they had failed because they couldn't show her something 'eternal', so the prince can't have just comforted her, he must have shown her something as well. And finally we get the reveal that the eternal thing that Akio/Dios had shown Utena was Anthy herself, as the rose bride, suffering eternally. Utena had shaken off her grief and committed to becoming a prince not just to save girls in general, but to save Anthy specifically. Retroactively everything anime Utena had done was for Anthy's sake, even before she met her at the school, that her inspiration had never really been Akio/Dios, but rather Anthy the whole time, even if she had forgotten.

Kind of a funny case because this is the 90s, so the show can't be too overtly gay - sad tragic lesbians like Juri, sure, but not main protagonists who get the girl and the happy ending. Utena could never just say flat out "I love you, I want to be your girlfriend, lets go make out about it", so instead it's "You are everything to me, I have literally lived my entire life for your sake," which is way, way more gay.

The manga can't do the same reveal, due to the change to the childhood story. There's too much detail in the manga version to go back and retcon everything with new details the same way, but this moment, showing how Anthy's presence drives all thoughts of Akio from Utena's head, leaving her with just the desire to save Anthy, or the earlier bit from when Utena told Wakaba that being around Anthy made her feel calm & at peace, it goes a long way towards conveying that feeling & motivation, it gets across the idea that for all the attention put on Utena and Touga or Utena and Akio, the person she really wants to be with is Anthy, even if she hasn't fully realized that herself yet, & even if the story isn't allowed to say that in as many words.

The next day Anthy's mask is back on, but Utena is blushing just looking at her. Look how cute they are. Akio needs to go to jail so they can just be happy together.

Imagine if he had been caught on security camera setting the fire at Wakaba's dorm. Akio goes to jail, the whole Dios ritual just... doesn't happen. Utena and Anthy move in together, Touga becomes their butler, happy endings for everybody.

But inevitably Utena's thoughts drift back to Akio. I do kind of love how all her previous antagonists in the Student Council just sort of follow her around like ducklings now. Have I mentioned that already? Probably, but it's still funny. The anime couldn't really do that, because they had to stay at arms length in order to repeat and deepen their conflicts with Utena for the second and third arcs of the show, but it would have been fun to see.

The SC kind of gossip about Utena a bit, and Juri mentions that she had been spending time with Akio, which Touga reacts to. Does Touga know who Akio is? That seems like the kind of information that a good butler/squire/servant/acolyte would have shared earlier if he did know.

Utena catches sight of Akio's car but before she can run off looking for him Touga grabs her aside, demanding to know if Akio has 'done something' to her.

I'm sorry, but... what about this situation called for a forced kiss? What was that even supposed to accomplish? Like, it feels like such a non-sequitur that I'm not even questioning the character here, I'm questioning the author. What was the point of this?

And after that, he just tells her about Akio? Which, like, I still don't get why he thought it was a good idea to forcibly kiss her first, and also why he didn't tell her this, like, a while ago.

And Utena has this big crashing realization, as Touga talks about how he was manipulated, and Utena realizes her feelings for Akio were probably just manipulation too, but then her thoughts again turn to Anthy.

We haven't had the chance to see Anthy's motivations and feelings so much yet, but I do appreciate the repeated emphasis on Utenas feelings for Anthy.

That night Akio & Anthy show up in his car...

Akio invites Utena to get in, and tells Anthy to leave. Utena tells Anthy to stay, but Akio drives off without her.

So Akio admits to being world's end, and organizing the duels, manipulating everyone, even flat out being evil.

But he insists that he hasn't forced Anthy to do anything, that she wants to be the Rose Bride.

Utena knows he's lying, but he just keeps talking, and driving, and...

And you'd think all of this would put Utena off, like convince her that he's a monster and she needs to get away from him, or fight him. That she needs to save Anthy specifically from Akio and stop furthering his plans, but....

I guess grooming is a hell of a drug.

Kind of feels awkward for Utena to be going along with Akio after finding out he's the self-admitted villain, but that's what we're doing.

[bonni]

maybe this is nitpicky of me but i feel like "in the end, all girls are like the rose bride" has been too far removed from its original context. it's not that it's not a good quote in isolation or that it doesn't represent the themes of the series regarding sexism (it totally does, and everything in utena has layers to it) but part of the reason the scene itself is so meaningful is because anthy isn't trying to make some blanket statement about sexism, she's betraying akio to send utena a clear message about what he's doing to her. utena comes to anthy for advice regarding how akio is encouraging her to be more feminine and anthy takes her hand and says this in response. the actual meaning of what she's saying is very clear: "you are being groomed. he's trying to make you a rose bride, like me. you need to get out while you still can." it just drives me insane that anthy betrayed akio, the only person she thought could ever love her, with a smile on her face, just to try and protect utena. and of course, when anthy realizes that utena is staying for her sake, she tries to kill herself; i firmly believe that anthy's suicide attempt was an attempt at self-sacrifice, and that she only felt like she was able to kill herself because she had already communicated to utena that akio was using her. she thought that if she was dead, utena would be able to leave.

[monstersqueen]

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My Top Posts in 2021

#5

oh! I wondered what akio’s seduction of utena was about - besides making us all uncomfortable - since it seems counterproductive to try and corrupt her when he needs the noblest sword he can get, and basically wrote it out to akio being akio and just not being able not to be a creep - or, simply wanting to have a control hand pn any of the duelist - or anyone in school, see wakaba.

but maybe it’s about anthy more than utena? he’s taunting her - they’re all the same, even utena - the right words, the right acts, and even utena will betray her principles. AND he assess his control over anthy by making her complicit. what he’s doing is making sure that HE is still anthy’s first loyalty, by sabotaging what utena and anthy are building.

that and he’s a creep and he can’t stand that someone is outside of his control and needs to bring her in

because he’s the worst

33 notes • Posted 2021-04-04 18:52:09 GMT

#4

So! at the end, jon was still recognizably jon, and that’s all i wanted. bonuses: whatever happened to them, jon and martin are still together and together and in love. the admiral and rosie are fine. georgie, melanie and basira are fine.

also that last statement was good. i did love it.

and! i adore simon fairchild and i am also very glad for whatever was done to him. he deserved it.

34 notes • Posted 2021-03-25 21:28:05 GMT

#3

also i ALWAYS forget - every rewatch - that utena looking at her ring and thinking of her prince is not really her thinking about dios|akio - she’s nottrying to be loyal to a shared promise with him - it’s made explicit! it’s basically said! but her ring is not a symbol of her being ‘engaged’ to the prince, nor of the promise of staying noble, or of becoming a prince herslef - it’s a symbol fo the promise she forgot, sicne she can’t remember clearly. when she looks at her ring and wonder if she can love akio/someone otehr than her prince, she’s not wondering about betraying her prince or the nobility of ebign a pricne herself, she subconsciously realizes that there’s a much more important promise linked to that ring, a much mroe important purpose she swore herself too.

how do i, EVERY TIME I REWATCH, forget that her ring is not about akio or dios, but about anthy? despite very much remembering WHAT SHE SAW THAT MADE HER LEAVE THE COFFIN

37 notes • Posted 2021-04-04 19:10:27 GMT

#2

thinking about ‘ I always wanted my friends to call me Gerry. ‘ like. they’ve known each other. half an hour? max? they’ll never meet again on account of one of them being dead? but gods.

gerry who never had friends? despite being. such a good person? the fucking loneliness of those two men meeting up and ! ok we’re friends now! jon who was. in fact looking up to gerry for a good part of the show?the whole thing

damn AUs where gerry and jon get to be the brest friends they were MEANT TO BE are so good

47 notes • Posted 2021-05-09 11:45:29 GMT

#1

yeah but the beginning of tgcf is hilarious.

--SPOILERS--

so xie lian ascended for the third time! he broke a bell who landed on Mu Qing! and Feng Xin's palace!!!! what kind of awful coincidence. it's not like he could have planned it! but wow!!!

And then! he goes quietly to the communication array, mu qing talks to him, and xl doesn't recognize him! which mu qing doesn't know! xl doesn't know either he's talking to the peson the bell landed on! mu qing doesn't know that either!

and the xie lian learn about the bell, apologizes - ok good, mu qing - AND THEN ASKS FOR HIS NAME. no wonder mu qing thought he could get away with the whole fu yao thing, btw. so, while that truly awkward moment is going on, for once in his life, feng xin coming in is making the situation much, much better for mu qing. Because he knows what feng xin doesn't, ie the identity of the person responsible for his palace's destruction. and, there, he does know feng xin doesn't.

so yeah of fucking course he's snickeringwhen feng xin starts yelling about his palace. because he knows who feng xin just screamed at, and probably knows tha if fx knew, well. he wouldn't be screaming.

after that absolute disaster of XIE LIAN NOT RECOGNIZING HIM, at least he gets to see feng xin make an ass of himself.

what a reunion. amazing. unsurpassed. awful for everyone involved. very much not what any of them would have wanted it to be like.

solution? COME UP WITH THE MOST TRANSPARENT DISGUISES AND START AGAIN.

and it keeps being hilarious. xie lian strats getting busy keeping the narration away from the realization of fu yao and nan feng's true identity,a s well as from the fact THAT YES, HE KNOWS.

one of the best things i've ever read, honest.

185 notes • Posted 2021-08-08 18:23:15 GMT

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