#anti gw*nriel

[elrielmoments]

Reminder: Azriel’s bonus chapter doesn’t take place at the end of Silver flames. It takes place the night of Solstice in Silver flames which is the middle / towards the end of the book. His bonus chapter takes place before Nesta and her friends were taken into the blood rite. Before Nesta is taken into the blood rite, she see’s Azriel in training and comments about how upset he looks (because Rhys told him to stay away from Elain and he likes her). Then, Nesta and her friends are taken into the blood rite. Azriel doesn’t care enough to break the rules to save / help them. He only cared about finding / questioning Eris. (Yet when Elain was captured in Acowar, he risked his life to save her and no one or anything was going to stop him). Then, Nesta and her friends get out of the blood rite, the whole thing with Feyre happens, the sisters spend time together and the book is over.

[pastelpinkkadan]

If we look at it from a PURELY logical and text based standpoint (no theories, no opinions on ships, no “I feel like…”, JUST text), we can pretty much guarantee two things.

Elain is the next MC.

Azriel is also the next MC.

Why?

Because everything has been set up for BOTH of them.

Azriel has gotten a bonus chapter from his POV. The most important part of that BC, was the FACT that it was from his POV. Just like Cassian got his own POV to help set him up for ACOSF. If Az was not the next MC, there’d be NO reason to give him a POV chapter. Absolutely none.

Elain is connected to pretty much every remaining plot point that the ACOTAR series has. The Dread Trove, Koschei, and yes the Band of Exiles. She has some sort of connection to each of these things, whether it’s through her Seer powers, court politics, or connections to other people. She is also the ONLY Archeron sister without a book yet. And, if we’re going off the clear pattern that SJM has set, she is obviously next.

If Lucien was next, he would have gotten a POV chapter. Or at the VERY least been in ACOSF in some meaningful way. But he wasn’t, at all. In fact Eris was featured more than him! This was the time to set Lucien up and SJM didn’t do it. Where was HIS bonus chapter? Where was HIS scene with Elain? Nonexistent.

If Gwyn was next, she’d be connected to ANY of the remaining plot points I mentioned. Obviously connected, by the way, not far reaching theories. But she isn’t. Like, at all. Hell, SJM could have easily had Gwyn say she was ready to leave the library and go explore the world, try something new, go on an adventure, or ANYTHING related to having her get her own story. Literally anything. But Gwyn went back to the library at the end of ACOSF, and SJM made a point to mention that.

Two characters have obviously been set up to have their stories told . Only two.

If the next ACOTAR book was about Elain and Lucien, you’d have to COMPLETELY ignore Azriel’s POV chapter and everything SJM has been giving him.

If the next ACOTAR book was about Azriel and Gwyn, you’d have to COMPLETELY ignore major plot points that borderline REQUIRE Elain to be present in them in a big way. And add a character that has NEVER been apart of these plot lines before, and wasn’t added to them during ACOSF either.

It’s not about “what ship you think is better”. It’s about what is ACTUALLY and BLUNTLY there in the text. With text, it doesn’t require imagining a bunch of scenes that haven’t happened or how you THINK two characters would act as a couple. It’s already there.

If you have to ignore entire characters and plot points, if they can’t exist or be around to make your ship plausible, then it’s not as valid as you think.

Thank you and make sure to tip your waitress.

[acotar-taylorsversion]

Why don’t the gwynriels and eluciens understand that Az didn’t care who that necklace went to and that gwyn more than likely does not have it??

He literally did not care who Clotho, CLOTHO NOT HIM, gave it to. He just wanted to get rid of it because now it reminded him of a bad night.

AND THERE’S NO PROOF THAT CLOTHO GAVE IT TO GWYN! Absolutely none. I can almost guarantee you that either we will never see that necklace again or Clotho still has it in a desk drawer waiting to give back to Az for Elain to finally have.

Like this is what a red herring is. A distraction from the real thing.

It drives me crazy when I see them say “what would Elain do when she finds out that her endgame gave her necklace to another woman and it made his chest spark”. 🙄 like stop assuming she has it or is ever going to get it. Until it’s written by Sarah, it’s not canon. Right now, it’s canonically with Clotho.

[katsum50]

At this point I think gw*nriel is nothing but an elaborate prank. There is no way someone can read the whole series and come to the conclusion that there is more (if any) evidence for gw*nriel than elriel. It has to be a joke.

[kita98]

SJM when asked who the next book is about

Antis: "there's no foreshadowing between Elriel, their interactions are not romantic. Have you read the BC??!!"

the BC: there she was, Az had stayed by the door the whole time in case it became too much and needed to leave (his secret to tell never hers), they'd exhanged looks, the occasional brush of their fingers, Azriel wanting to get on his knees to taste Elain, Az and Elain about to kiss.

Antis: "elriel is too obvious, SJM wouldn't do that"

sjm setting up the forbidden romance for the spymaster who had lovers he kept secret and the seer who knows how to keep secrets and had her sister wondering if she took lessons in stealth by Azriel or her besties who are spies (and work with him).

[i-sneezed]

One thing I’ve noticed is how Gwynriels never give Gwyn her own story.

All theories I’ve seen involving her in future books revolve around her in relation to Azriel’s story. It’s always something like:

“Gwyn is going to help fix Illyria with Azriel”

“Gwyn is going to heal with Az”

There’s never a storyline that’s about HER.

I don’t think the reason is because they don’t want her to have her own story, I think it’s because they cannot connect her to the overarching plot without sticking her with Az.

Because that’s the thing: Gwyn has 0 connection to the plot. Any connections are only through her proximity to the IC. But that’s not enough for an independent story, and the fact that Gwynriels can’t come up with one for her proves that point.

Any MC in this series should be able to move the plot forward independent of their romantic relationship.

And this series, first and foremost, is about WOMEN. Women take the lead in this story.

They do not exist in relation to the men around them. They are active participants in the plot who also find love.

Gwyn, as it stands, doesn’t fulfill that. Could she? Sure, in theory. But we have no canon information to indicate she could carry her own book.

[elrielbaby]

The way antis only look at things in a vacuum absolutely needs to be studied.

We’re excited about Time Magazine shouting out Elain & Azriel (and only Elain & Azriel)

They say: ‘Well all elriels have is magazine articles, we have canon on our side!’

We’re excited about canon text that proves our ship, over and over and over again.

They say: Well, look at this Facebook comment from SJM in 2017, before ACOWAR came out!

We’re excited because SJM wears something extremely Elain coded in a HOFAS selfie

They say: Ugh, and that’s all they cling to! How ridiculous -

Meanwhile, they’re over here calling it confirmation because Azriel is involved in a bonus chapter, and shouting from the roof tops because it being called ‘House of Flame and Shadow’ must mean it includes G*ynriel! (To this day I do not know why. Shadows because of Azriel obviously but how G*yn relates to Flame I haven’t got a clue. Maybe because her hair is red?)

They’ll say Azriel was only interested in Elain sexually because of the bonus chapter, yet seem to skip how he describes her so beautifully as she comes from under the stairs, how they can read each other without the extra help of Azriels shadows - they seem to forget the previous four books of interactions the two have, or even more hilariously, they do remember them but pass them off as brother/sister vibes… to which I am usually speechless because I cannot fathom admitting that, particularly after the bonus chapter and then expecting me to come around to your way of thinking, apparently?

But yeah. We’re crazy and have nothing 🤪

[sapaul]

“DiD yOu ReAd ThE bOnUs ChApTEr?!?!l

Yeah, I did. Did you??

[kayla-2]

N.esta has never mentioned seeing anything between gleeriel. She is the only perspective that has spent the most time with Azriel and Gwen together and individually-and she’s given absolutely nothing unless you think him snorting and raising his eyebrows is romance. She is the perfect set up for them, just like feyre who caught everything between Nessian.

Unlike elriel…..

[highladyjane]

Disregarding the fact of how bad the pregnancy plot generally was handled and how much we hate the misogynistic arguments now surrrounding it...

Here's a take I don't see mentioned enough.

No, Nesta didn't change Elain's anatomy... Because we all know that should be Elain's choice after everything they've both been through. But remember how since the very first book and nearly through every book since, we were told how specific the magic is, especially regarding bargains? That you have to be specific with words?

What exactly did Nesta ask the Cauldron for in order to save Feyre and Nyx and Rhys?

The Cauldron/The Mother didn't change Nesta as it did to save Feyre - she was passed the knowledge and did it herself.

So if Nesta knew how to adjust herself, then she very well could pass that knowledge onto Cauldron-blessed Elain who still has her full powers if Elain ever should want or need the knowledge.

Sarah doesn't even need to "magical bean" her way through an Illyrian pregnancy. She just has to go with what 👏she's 👏actually 👏already 👏written👏 and use what Nesta now knows.

I don't want to hear about "pliant BONES" again, thank you very much.

[silverlinedeyes]

A Court of Dancing Shadows

As Recorded by Gwyneth Berdara

A potential summary and description of the Azriel Gwyn Nesta book idea* that is floating around, the plot of which I can’t stop thinking about and trying to imagine:

Follow Az and Gwyn in dual POV as Az and Nesta go on a journey to revive dusk and establish Valkyrie HQ with Gwyn as their sidekick.

Gwyn is there as an official scribe, making sure this gets recorded for Prythian history (I mean what else is her role?), but also I guess as Az’s girlfriend? (I am refraining from continuing down this path of thought before I say something bad.)

Gwyn’s POVs focus on Nesta, what she does, how she uses the Starborn power or whatever to revive dusk (I know I know Nesta’s power is death, how are she and Az, whose power is shadows, going to bring the land back to life? It’s not my job to answer these questions. This is their story. But I digress.), and also how obsessed Gwyn is with Az and his shadows.

Gwyn almost gets eaten by a Wyrm. Nesta saves her with a Trove weapon Gwyn can’t wield.

And while they travel the land, at night, Gwyn sings around the campfire and Az’s shadows dance. Az sometimes joins in the singing. Nesta watches. And then Gwyn and Az sneak away from Nesta once she’s asleep to f*ck. Hopefully she doesn’t hear.

One brother, one sister, and a bestie (and the shadows who love her).

Cassian is…nowhere to be found on this journey lol. Nesta could leave him behind (and he let her apparently).

And we get more Valkyrie training scenes and get to see them ride the Pegasi after they free Dusk and establish Valkyrie HQ.

Oh, and Gwyn somehow heals Az (even though I thought Az needed therapy first?) and makes him love Illyrians again.

The end!

I can’t 🤣🤣🤣

*this is a shitpost and a joke but also…..someone please help me understand what the actual plot and romance and storyline of this book would be because I’m at a loss.

[greatorangecat]

"Azriel is one horny bitch who only seeks out Elain for his own sexual pleasures. He shouldn't be with her! He's creepy, and he definitely needs therapy! But our girl Gwyn can be with him. Az and Gwyn will be a perfect couple despite them having zero attraction to each other. With Gwyn, Az will no longer need therapy. He's not creepy. He's perfectly okay." - every gwynriels out there

[pastelpinkkadan]

It is WILD to me that Azriel rescued Elain from Hybern (without being ordered too. He was determined to go even at the cost of his own life), found out that she was a Seer (which a Mate should have been able to do, supposedly…), has voluntarily spent hours with her in the garden, bought and received Solstice gifts for/from Elain, and has literally questioned the integrity of The Cauldron….

Yet he ONLY lusts for Elain???

That’s actually asinine.

If you truly believe that, you haven’t read the books. Or you think one bonus scene of him finally admitting that he ALSO (not only) feels lust for Elain somehow cancels out everything else he’s done…idk what to do tell you.

If it had only been about lust, he wouldn’t have done any of the above for Elain.

If he only wanted a mate, he would not go for a female who is already (unhappily) mated.

If he only wanted sex, there are PLENTY of females for him to choose from. And Mor has already stated that, while private about it, Azriel does not have a problem with getting laid.

It’s not just lust. Be so for real.

[acotar-taylorsversion]

In My Opinion

If Elain chooses Lucien, then it will not be for herself and nothing will ever convince me otherwise.

Elain choosing Lucien would ruin absolutely everything about her character arc. Elucien would ruin whatever is left of the acotar series. Because why make Elain's big thing all about choices if she chooses the one that is easiest?

Why talk about wanting to write about rejecting a mate and exploring the consequences if it's not about Elain and Lucien? Why write Elain and Lucien the way they are and how uncomfortable they are around each other when they would end up with each other anyways? Why write about the growing friendship and attraction between Elain and Az if it leads to nowhere?

I will never understand how people can read about how much Elain avoids Lucien, shrinks into herself, and becomes quiet and reserved around him and still think that she would ever be happy with him. It's not just the mating bond, it's him, too. He is a constant reminder of her trauma and what she has lost.

At least with Az, she was finding herself and becoming comfortable with her new life. She became comfortable enough to try and begin something with him. That bonus chapter confirmed that they both have mutual attraction towards each other and it had taken months to get them to that point. It wasn't just some random thing that happened.

Yeah, we don't know what Elain is thinking or what her thoughts are about what all has happened. But I go off by her actions, and they scream that she wants nothing to do with Lucien.

I'm gonna have to reread HOFAS again and try to better understand what was all said about the cauldron and Truth Teller. Because I bet that Elain and Lucien got one of those mating bonds that is solely based on having powerful children and not true love. And I bet the connection that Elain has with Truth Teller will mean something, too. And I've heard that Truth Teller can break bonds? Is that the connection? Will Elain be able to break her own bond and nullify it so it doesn't affect her and Lucien anymore? If they both reject it, does it nullify the bond? Like there are so many things about mating bonds that I think would be great to explore other than another couple accepting it. Talk about boring, repetitive, and predictable.

And don't give me that "Sarah is a fated mates author and that means Elucien is endgame" or "that bonus chapter ended with Gwyn so that means the series is all about her and Az" bullshit. That is complete bullshit.

[katsum50]

Everybody is on Twitter (or X or whatever you call it) asking for the Elain book under the Bloomsbury post promoting ACOTAR. Certain shippers of different couples are saying Elriels really only want an Azriel/Elain book, and we won’t read it if it’s Elain/Elucien because we don’t care about Elain.

I don’t think that’s true. I am an Elain fan first. I want her book regardless of who she ends up with as long as it’s a decent story.

I prefer her with Azriel because that is where the story has been leading. She wants him and he wants her. Honestly it’s also the most intriguing story. Ship who you want, but don’t act like Elriels don’t care about Elain. Especially when I’ve seen how she’s been treated as nothing but a prize to Lucien and an annoying obstacle to Gw*nriels.

[breaking-shadows]

So ready for an Elriel announcement in 2024!