#anti tobirama

[the-real-sasuke-uchiha]

Tobirama be like: "The Uchiha are so unstable, you kill them a brother and they go wildly mad, unbelievable. Nothing like me, I am completely sane. See, here I am experimenting with dead bodies so I can create a jutsu that summons a zombie army. Not an inch of crazy in me."

[bimgtt]

True Uchiha clan not that bulshite shown in the Boruto series so called fake Uchiha pathetic historically ignorant family( Sakura and Sarada who treat clan crest some sort of ornaments or achievements or trophy to brag about or show off for them without knowing its struggle and past history and how you get to wear it) or how the story tries to revise Uchiha tragedy and the oppression and racism against the Uchiha collectively.

[leportraitducadavre]

Tobirama might have been prejudiced toward Uchiha, but he drew the line on human experimentation...

Oh, well, he conducted undisclosed autopsies on Uchiha's bodies, but he drew the line on human sacrifices...

Oh, well, Edo-Tensei needs human sacrifices, but he drew the line on using innocent people...

Oh, well, who exactly is innocent when they all partake in a system based upon oppression and warfare, but he drew the line on using children...

Oh, well, he created the exams that sends children to warlike scenarios, but he drew the line on hurting allies...

Oh, well, Uchiha were their allies and he still created a system that harmed them specifically, but he drew the line in--

[nardo-headcanons]

About Shisui Uchiha

just some shower thoughts i had about him. this is very headcanon heavy and rather vague at times.

tw for talks about suicide, manipulation, trauma, abuse, etc

tagging: @uchihaharlot @pxssy-stuntin-for-itxchi @lalalover33-blog @burning-bubble @naruto-scribblings-j

Unlike Itachi, who was born during the last year of the great Shinobi war, it is safe to say that Shisui was born while it was still going on. So naturally, he was exposed to the worst side humanity had to offer, most likely traumatizing him in the process.

His mother is never mentioned, so I assume she must have died during his birth or in his early childhood. His father, most likely ravaged by illness before he even entered the battlefield, lost his left leg, leaving him with phantom pains and high medical bills. As a born shinobi, Shisui’s father lacked the funds and education to pursue any other path of career, leaving his child as the only breadwinner of his family. Shisui probably had to spend his entire childhood and youth slaving away just to keep his father and himself afloat. Additionally, he took care of a terminally i’ll man who didn’t even remember his son’s name. Of course, this would lead to Shisui being very perceptive of the psychology of the ones around him, how else could he search for a sign of his father’s state health changing?

Shisui often spent time wondering what it’s like to have a family, a family in which he is allowed to be what he is: a child. Someone who is cared for, someone who is looked after. Despite being an Uchiha, his relation to Kagami Uchiha - the Uchiha allied with Tobirama, the very person planting the seed for all the discrimination the Uchiha would face, up to a point of their genocide, would probably lead him to feel ostracized within his own clan. And like everyone of us, he is trying to find the balance between individuality and belonging - the latter being the one he lacked. His abilities as an Uchiha become a defining factor of identity for him, leading to him being willing to let a comrade via withholding aid - just on the basis of that comrade potentially being stronger than him. Once his comrade dies, the young Uchiha is ravaged by feelings of guilt, by the awareness that the blood of his friend is on his hand.

But nevertheless, he is blessed with a new Uchiha ability - the mangekyou sharingan. His entire life he had to enter a role he didn’t want to be in, robbing him of memories he could have had. So what better mangekyou ability to have than the one that alters memories, and, in extension, alters your role in the world?

Shisui’s resentment against his Uchiha identity starts bubbling up inside him again, and being a shinobi who frequents B- or even A-Rank missions as a literal teenager (how else would you pay for your father’s medical debt as a shinobi, eh?) he was closer to the village from the start. Hailed as the strong and talented Uchiha boy, taking on missions to serve his village, behind the facade a broken kid forced to grow up way too quickly. His first serious doubts begin when he is forced to kill Mukai Kohinata, a direct reflection of Shisui, just the other way around: a father wanting nothing but funds to care for his dying child.

Things don’t get better when the tension between the village and the Uchiha rise. His own brethren or the collective - who will you support? Getting into Shisui’s mind and twisting his perception of what’s right is an easy game for Danzo, almost too easy. A civil war breaking out in Konoha would be a repetition of his initial trauma - the one thing Shisui wants to prevent the most. Shisui starts feeling conflicted, until he finally stumbles upon THE miracle solution: forcefully keeping up the status quo by manipulating the leader of the revolution - an unpleasant reality, but better than the Uchiha clan’s extermination or a civil war breaking out, right? To Shisui, atleast. And honestly, who could blame him? As a ninja who graduated young, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that he lacks the methodical and critical thinking outside of the parameters of violence and manipulation he is used to from Danzo and the shinobi world.

And then it happens. He agrees to suppress the revolution of his own ethnic group just for the sake of keeping up a false sense of peace, and suddenly, his co conspirators, the man that is supposed to be guarding him, leading him, suddenly abandons him and steals his eye? Shisui’s entire identity as the Uchiha boy from Konoha collapses and he doesn’t know what to think or believe anymore. In his last moments, he becomes aware of the utter pointlessness of the killing and the brutality of the shinobi system, the sheer feeling of powerless overwhelming him. At this point, death seems like a sweeter option than continuing to live powerlessly in such a system.

Shisui is a skilled ninja, but not always in contact with his emotions. Therapy is a rarity in the leaf, with even the counselors themselves not being able to give advise outside of the parameters of what’s “acceptable” in the hidden leaf.

So, what better way to hide your agony than behind a -albeit manufactured- goofy smile?

[obitoslover]

I don't know if that's a well-known information here, but did you know it's canon Tobirama buried Madara's corpse just to study his sharingan? He was initially trying to destroy his corpse, but changed his mind about the subject

Who knows what kind of tests/experiments he did with Madara's corpse shadow clone (I mean, no way it disappeared, otherwise Tobirama would know Madara was faking his death and informed at least Hashirama)...

Also, he locked Madara's corpse and tied the coffin with ropes and stakes! That's a corpse, man, he should will not just stand up and kills you at night, chill... (and no one would find it, anyway, since Tobirama hid it deep in the mountains)

Adding: It seems like the Uchiha clan didn't seem to care enough about making a proper burial to Madara's corpse, since it's never told and/or showed what Tobirama did was common knowledge within the Uchiha or.. anyone who isn't Black Zetsu

Anyway Madara's a goat to refuse death, even though I dislike izanagi and izanami jutsus @lalalover33-blog

[the-real-sasuke-uchiha]

I can't get over the fact that the only one to ever tell off Tobirama for his racism was the deranged number-one-villain Orochimaru. Not a single one of Konoha's heroes seemed to have any problem with how he discriminated, excluded and segregated the Uchiha. Not a single one.

[theuchihalawyer]

who do you think is really to blame for the Uchiha genocide?

This is a little messy, sorry.

I blame Konoha government/system. The council along with Danzo, Hiruzen and Tobirama.

The Uchiha clan was opressed, discriminated, they went through a lot of injustice, they were even relocated to a corner of the village because of the "distrust", they faced xenophobia for decades..

Danzo learnt about the coup they were planning because of these reasons, that they couldn't take the discrimination anymore, but instead of looking for a better solution, what does he do? He suggests the extermination of the clan, and what does the council do? They agree. That was not fair, at all, it wasn't properly handled, at all. They ordered a ethnic genocide. Hiruzen, as the Hokage, didn't do anything to change what the Uchiha clan had to go through before the massacre and didn't do anything to stop Danzo either when they agreed to the massacre.

Tobirama never trusted the Uchiha clan, and before his "investigation" (about his so called curse of the hatred, which wouldn't exist without his extremist ideology of the will of the fire), he simply believed the "rumors" he heard about them, he believed they were unpredictable, so he began telling Hashirama to keep them out important matters regarding the village, because they were "dangerous" (in Tobirama point of view, based on rumors)

He saw them as a threat to the village, and so, his system starts the horrible conditions the Uchiha go through. He takes away their possibility to reach political power, he keeps them controlled and under the goverment supervision (Konoha police) and his distrust influences Konoha legacy, and.. then, the genocide happens, because..I repeat, the Uchiha couldn't take the discrimination anymore, the discrimination Tobirama system inflicted upon them, and Tobirama's student decided that the genocide was necessary, not. fair. at. all.

And you just have to read how he speaks about the Uchiha clan when he is summoned by the Edo Tensei, and you'll just understand why the genocide was his fault too.

And I won't get started on Itachi, or Shisui. Itachi didn't even regret what he did. Shisui was just another supporter of the fascist, extremist, and corrupted goverment. His statements about the civil war that the Uchiha would cause by carrying out a revolution were even proven wrong. Their clan wanted a revolution because of everything they went through, but no, Itachi? He followed Konoha orders, and.. doesn't regret a thing, doesn't regret what he did to Sasuke, and also continued believing Sasuke should be a tool to Konoha. The Uchiha were against the system that oppressed them. The system Tobirama left in Konoha legacy. The system Hiruzen and Danzo didn't change.

[leportraitducadavre]

“Sarada is the first Uchiha that awoke her MS out of a sense of pure love, unlike the rest of them that were rooted in hatred –she’s the first one to break the “Hatred Cycle” of the clan.”

*sighs* Listen, there’s nothing I’d like more than to leave Boruto and all of its byproducts behind for good, yet over and over again the rabid anti-Sasuke fandom comes back to trash on the original characters of the show for the sole purpose of chanting “old Uchiha bad, new Uchiha good” around a barely lit pit fire.

Allow me to quickly break this notion, as it doesn’t need much more inspection than a faint passing of our eyes through the original series to debunk it.

After hearing Naruto is sealed away alongside Hinata and everyone blames Boruto, Sarada starts crying and, in desperation, asks her dad to “help Boruto”, awakening her Mangekyou Sharingan.

[Contrary to what I initially believed as I thought she might be asking for help as she couldn’t move, she’s not injured, she appears to be (at most) in shock due to everything that Boruto has to face, so, in case you’re one of those Naruto fans that are used to have pretty plot-relevant, emotional moments after the initial awakening of an Uchiha’s MS, let me tell you: That’s not happening, at all.]

Regardless of the minuscule and for real, for real, not sarcastic at all, very-well thought and constructed attempt to empower a character whose relevance to the main plot lies in the fact that she is the only daughter of Boruto's mentor, many stans of the child saw this opportunity to trash on Sasuke’s power as an Uchiha (you know, the reincarnation of Indra itself), and to justify such an awakening of one of the most powerful forms of the Sharingan under the premise that “it’s a different type of awakening because it’s linked to love, not hatred.”

So, in order to fact-check such affirmation, let’s see how other characters achieved the Mangekyou:

Sasuke:

Sasuke awakes his MS originally from learning the truth behind his family’s genocide; before this (and I mean, chapters before this, as his MS is dedicated a total of three chapters) Obito explained that the Uchiha were planning a coup and that Itachi, to protect Konoha and his brother, committed the annihilation of his entire kin following the government’s orders. We see him crying before a new resolution is reached: destroy Konoha. His MS awakes due to his pain which turns to complete anger.

However, you wouldn’t believe how Sasuke has conscious access to both Mangekyou:

That’s right folks, he has conscious access over his right MS by thinking of those he wants to protect, Team Taka and Team 7. So this “hatred” cycle that powers up his Sharingan is fuelled by one thing and one thing only: love.

Furthermore,

Sasuke got conscious access over his left MS technique when trying to save Karin, as she’s a very dear comrade of his. Something similar happened when he awakened his Sharingan versus when he got conscious access to it when trying to save Naruto.

[Sasuke awoke the Sharingan when he was eight years old, so the idea that “haha, Sarada awoke her MS when she was younger than him so she’s better!” is stupid as he awoke it when he was at least four years younger when facing the genocide of his people, unlike her that got it from daddy issues. In fact, awakening MS or the Sharingan before or after has nothing to do with the person's capacity as a ninja as it solely depends on the traumatic events that said person experiences. It's safer to say that her emotional threshold is significantly lower than her father's given the "peaceful" times in which she grew up than to claim a "superiority" based upon the age they both experienced traumatically enough events to influence their chakra and develop or evolve their doujutsu.]

Obito:

Obito, somewhat similar to Sasuke (and this is due to their feelings, as they’re heartbroken and such pain triggers their raw hate), awakes his MS when he sees the girl he loves get killed by the boy he started to consider a friend when he was twelve/thirteen years old. His feelings are so strongly connected to his Sharingan that they also evolve the doujutsu that Kakashi possesses.

However, there’s a striking difference between how Obito awakened his Sharingan (basic form) and how Sasuke or even Sarada did as he achieved such power when trying to save his comrades.

[Sasuke awoke the Sharingan due to the pain he felt when seeing his parents get killed by his brother, which turned into hatred when Itachi "explained" his reasons. Meanwhile, Sarada got her Sharingans due to the pain she felt when her father didn't recognize her, which turned into fear when he threatened to kill her.]

Obito’s Sharingan was completely awakened by a sense of protectiveness over those dear to him, in other words, love. 

Every single Sharingan or evolution of the same doujutsu is driven by the same emotion. From there, it either derivates to different states (pain, hate, grief, and so on), or it doesn’t, but no Uchiha can access either form without feeling a strong positive connection with someone or something they are trying to protect.

P.S: Unrelated, but look how pretty Kishimoto's art is compared to Ikemoto's (who also sexualizes minors constantly, as this is the cover of the newest volume), Sasuke looks so ugly and Sarada's MS is the most awful thing I've ever seen. No wonder the manga is flopping. Yikes.

Edit to add: It’s devastatingly hilarious how the whole point of Sarada’s Mangekyou wasn’t even about her; nor her power, nor the relevance of her bonds, it was about making a powerful enough moment for Sasuke to believe her and help Boruto! Everything becomes, yet again, about Sasuke.

[sasukesun]

the villain the real villain

[mdr-reikas]

100% agreed on the whole way naruto shippers clearly do not actually care about or like madara and sasuke. for example fucking sasusaku shippers clearly do not notice or care about how sasuke is miserable fighting for some village that ruined his life and that no one knows the truth about the uchiha massacre they just see him as some strong skinny twink bishie boi who is only nice to their precious self insert sakura they see him as a thing for sakura. don't even get me started on fucking tobirama x madara or the toxic tobirama stans in general, i have seen horrific shit of madara being violently raped by tobirama on ao3 as a punishment of his crime for "being an uchiha who hasn't been humbled". the sad thing is that i have seen crossover romance shipping fanfic that actually respects both madara and sasuke as characters (making sure they ain't OOC or stripped of their nuance/personality) and they have more chemistry with characters from different anime/manga series. both madara and sasuke deserve better from this damn fandom than just being hashirama and naruto's cute little waifus who constantly get kidnapped like Princess Peach and get pregnant with uchiha babies like a fucking Uchiha baby factory.

So real!!! I think one of the reasons why this happens sometimes is because a lot of naruto fans/shippers are very pro konoha, so anything that Madara or Sasuke do is instantly a crime against humanity to them, so in order to make their ship work they have to take their morals and issues away from Madara and Sasuke, so they "aren't evil" anymore.

Also, that last part about t*birama/madara is so true. I mean, aside the fact that Madara would never be able to forgive him for killing Izuna, Tobirama also just had zero respect for him as a person. Tobirama felt no empathy for the Uchiha, and to pretend that he would set that aside for Madara is just insane to me. It's fine as a crack ship or if you write it to be intentionally toxic (which can be fun sometimes), but just taking away all the nuance these two characters have to make them fuck??? why?? Like, with hsmd I atleast understand where people are coming from, childhood friends trope and all, but what is the appeal of tobimada? No one who actually likes Madara would be able to ship tobimada, and no one who actually likes Sasuke would be able to ship sasusaku.

Madara and Sasuke definitely deserved sooo much better, they deserved loving people who actually respected them and their dreams (and no hsrm did not respect mdr's dreams while he was still in the village let's not play pretend).

[luna-blood]

I was debating on YouTube about Sasuke but YouTube deletes comments, especially those that have a link. It was also difficult for me to search for the publications. So I gave myself the task of collecting posts from all Sasuke fans and neutral critics of the work 'Naruto' that talk about Sasuke and his relationship with the other Naruto characters. I have also included my contributions, such as questions to other users and post responses. I hope this post helps you when you need support when you are debating in favor of Sasuke. Without anything else to say, I leave you the links:

Positive qualities of Sasuke.

Sasuke's chakra is extremely powerful, voluminous, and denser than Senjutsu chakra!

It is false that Bee could have killed Sasuke any time he wanted.

¡Sasuke has been shown to nullify mortal wounds with Raiton!

Sasuke is literally the first person to survive the Raikage's Liger Bomb.

All Sasuke received from Raikage was a small lip bleed, while Raikage lost an arm and another Kage, Gaara, had to intervene to save his leg and his life.

Orochimaru's "physical condition" has nothing to do with his ritual and Sasuke's victory.

Analysis Sasuke vs Deidara.

Sasuke killed Danzo; he did not commit suicide.

Are Itachi and Kakashi really prodigies at the level their fans believe them to be? No.

The only reason Naruto managed to hurt Kaguya was because Sasuke forced her to change dimensions more than once and she herself had changed dimensions about four times in total.

Because Sasuke haters say that Haku is simply more tragic and a better person than Sasuke; and Batman too!

What is it about Sasuke that provokes people so much, compared to all the other fictional characters (in and out of Naruto) who have done bad things? Gaara was killing people for fun in part 1, but no one ever complains about him not being punished. Zuko from ATLA burned down a village of civilians, sent a hitman after Team Avatar, and was just lucky that no civilian was injured/killed, but everyone adores him. But Sasuke is unredeemable for threatening to destroy the village?

A back and forth on why Sasuke is a much better realized character, with thematic and narrative depth, compared to Kurapika and Zuko.

Sasuke is the imperfect victim unlike the perfect victims of ATLA and Full Metal Alchemist.

Sasuke's character is too good for the Naruto universe.

Are people upset that Sasuke was going to let the Shinobi Alliance perish?

Sasuke as a feminist icon.

Sakura is a female incel.

Sakura is a narcissistic.

Sakura inserted herself because she wanted validations from people who were out of her league, that's why. She is perfect for self-insert.

The mere idea of turning over an entire manga in your head in which Sasuke hides a raging boner (at age 12) for Sakura is... repulsive. Don't you have anything better to do?

Sasuke never kissed Sakura.

The blow on the forehead is not the maximum expression of love.

Naruto Gaiden is a fucking masterpiece!

Sasuke retsuden is not canon.

Sasuke retsuden is not canon, Jun Esaka herself said it and if you are a fan of Sasuke it is normal that you hate Sakura because Sasuke is unhappy with her.

Sasuke still considers Sakura inferior.

Sasuke didn't push Sakura away because of the curse of hate.

Sasuke rejected Sakura, Ino and Karin, he didn't push them away because he was afraid.

Sasuke is not in love with Karin and did not have sex in part 2 with Karin.

Why Karin's fans say she had sex with Sasuke in part 2.

What does Kakashi know about the genocide and the physical and mental torture that would lead the child victim to a fatal coma, at the hands of a family member?

Naruto is a narcissistic.

Why Naruto is the worst character.

How can anyone read the two chapter panels showing two very different worlds the characters occupy and be surprised by the way it ended? They were not going to reconcile since the world where Sasuke exists is the antithesis of the world where his former team resides.

The Intellectual Dilemma of Rock Lee's Fanbase.

Shikamaru's revenge is meaningless unlike Sasuke's.

People who support Nagato but vilify Sasuke sound a lot more idiotic than they think.

In defense of Fugaku.

How does Sasuke's revolution develop?

Why didn't the narrative validate Sasuke's radical change from Konoha's Will of Fire to the Revolution?

Itachi massacred the clan out of conscience.

The difference between Kushina and Itachi is not that big.

The policies of Tobirama Senju and the Uchiha genocide.

At what point will people stop demanding Sasuke?

Tsunade was at the forefront of the Second Shinobi World War that massacred the people of Nagato, plundered their land's resources, and continued to use the land as a battlefield resulting in mass deaths, poverty, and suffering. A war that Konoha started.

Why do so many people still blame Sasuke for Sasuke's past?

Uchihas do not have mental illnesses.

Sasuke vs Readers without empathy.

Kishimoto canon vs Studio Pierrot fanservice.

The brilliant change of perspective and theme between Hebi and Taka Sasuke; and that there is no writing defect in the moment in which Sasuke stabs Karin to reach Danzō.

Tobirama never accepted the Uchiha as true allies like Hashirama did, never trusting them, something he admitted so openly that his brother had to warn him "not to continue pursuing the Uchiha." And the Uchiha weren't planning to kill innocent people, they were planning to take over the government itself.

Kishimoto is anti sasusaku and anti naruhina.

Kishimoto never wanted to write Boruto.

The real Sasuke fans.

[obitoslover]

but like what if madara did actually got pregnant with hashirama's baby?...how would tobirama react, how would fhe rest of senju and uchiha react? will the child have rinnegan and be the most op character in the entire naruto verse?

Anon, I honestly don't know...

Like, to begin with, we would have to think when and how this even happened. My "easiest" option would be making Madara trans, because there's no way they would have hormone therapy in their era😭 When that happened is tricky, because in canon they never were this close, but for the fanfic's sake let's just say it was after Konoha was founded (and iirc in canon Mito wasn't married to Hashirama yet)

I think Tobirama, like the rest of the Senju and the Uchiha, wouldn't be... accepting, because even if we consider there was no homophobia at the time (which I doubt), there's still the distrust against each other, but maybe they could accept taking it as a "guarantee" of the truce? That's how marriage kinda used to work anyway. But Tobirama wouldn't think like that, he would think of this child like a threat, like it's the child of two powerhouses, one of them being an Uchiha(!!), so he would want to keep an eye on them. If he would like his niece/nephew afterwards, I don't know, I guess it depends of which parent they would look like the most XD

About powers, I think the rinnegan needs the actual chakra, right? So this child wouldn't awake the rinnegan, even in an almost death situation, but they definitely would be op, maybe just not the strongest character of the verse, because both Madara and Hashirama don't have all their powers genetically determined, it also has the training component

Anyway, I hope my answer satisfied you, anon (wish I could know if you're a mutual or not)

[nartml]

"Itachi was a good brother"

"He did nothing wrong"

Sigh

CW: Entirely unorganized, I had thoughts to express and no order in which to do so.

What are some of y'all on? Respectfully, what are some of you guys talking about? Why is this even a debate? Some hardcore Itachi stans need to get their eyesight checked 😭

There are ways to acknowledge a character's tragedy, their impossible situation, the excruciating circumstances they're under, without justifying genocide and inhumane torture.

Itachi was a tool. Thoroughly manipulated by everyone, and exposed to horrifyingly gruesome sights at a young age. He was a tool, which did Konoha's bidding, followed instructions to a T. And yes, the stuff that he's done will forever haunt him. He possibly hasn't known a moment of true peace or happiness in his life. All very tragic.

That said, he still. Well, sucks. And fucked up badly. You can feel sympathy for him –you probably should– and I do too. But the fact that he didn't regret it makes me side eye him.

His clan was planning a revolution, because they were all alienated, discriminated against, victims of unbelievable prejudice and racism based on a bunch of nonsensical bullshit (fuck Konoha btw)

So naturally, when the government mysteriously found out, he was ordered to slaughter all his people –including pregnant women and little kids– mercilessly. And naturally, he did as they asked.

But he couldn't kill his little brother, because apparently "Konoha's orders were not more important than your life, Sasuke, doesn't he love you so much".

So instead of killing him, he makes him relive the massacre of his family a cool 500k times, then sets him up for a lifetime of hatred, pain, anger, bitterness, survivor's guilt and loneliness.

Manipulates Sasuke's worldview, makes him believe that in order to achieve his goal of killing him (something that Itachi set him up for as well btw), he needs to be entirely isolated without any sort of connection to other people. Shows up 5 years later, traumatizes Sasuke some more, tells him he needs to kill his best friend. Yk, all the stuff a good older brother does.

Then some years later Sasuke manages to kill him, just as Itachi wanted, and Itachi ofc pokes him on the forehead, even in death keeping his distance from Sasuke without ever clarifying what it means.

Isn't he just the loveliest?

He's a tragic character with an abundance of issues, who absolutely fucked Sasuke's life entirely, and no matter how much you kick your feet and scream, he's not a good older brother.

"But he loved Sasuke so much"

I'm sure he did; at least in a twisted sort of way. But holy shit, this might blow your mind to smithereens, just because you love someone doesn't mean you love them right, that you're good for them, or did good to them.

Itachi loved Sasuke, but he sure as fucking shit did not love him right, was not good for him, nor did good to him.

"But Itachi was so guilty, it's not like he was having fun when doing all this, he'll forever be traumatized by what he did"

This shouldn't even be up for debate. Feelings, intentions and actions are not of equal importance. The impact of an action you took is more important than your intentions and/or your feelings regarding that action. One is tangible and affects others, the other is internalized and all you.

Itachi's situation was complicated, and there was no realistic outcome where everyone is happy. He was cornered, more or less.

So he held his head down and did as he was told.

Regardless of how he felt about it before, during and afterwards, despite his intentions and reasoning for what he did to both his clan and Sasuke, despite the guilt he feels, it doesn't change the cold, hard reality of the negative impact he had on his little brother and his family's name. Sure, intentions/feelings/reasoning plays a role in feeling sympathy for him, but you gotta hold him fucking accountable for the atrocities he committed.

You could say that he did it for peace, because the revolution would've been bloody, that Konoha had to do what it did to avoid countless deaths, or whatever bullshit arguments y'all want to make. It's inconceivable to me how you can't even hear the wrong in those statements.

Konoha did not do it for peace, there was NOTHING peaceful about any of it, no justification for it. If you think genocide is the only solution to a rebellion that hasn't even been executed yet, then I guess y'all's mindsets are way too fucked up and you should look into it. Konoha most certainly used this coup as an excuse to rid itself of the thorn that were the Uchihas. Because you know what ended up happening?

Konoha, the very government who orchestrated this, ended up then writing Itachi off as living proof of "the curse of hatred", as someone who went insane because of the clan's innate ugliness, that damned, forsaken curse that no wretched member of that family can shake off. Entirely shoved this disgusting, fucked up situation under the mat.

In the end, when it's time to write the history books, Itachi and the Uchiha clan will be registered as vile creatures who were full of hatred and that's how they'll be remembered. No justice was served for them, and that is heartbreaking.

___________________________________________

TL;DR

Moral of the story: Konoha sucks, Itachi was not a good brother and did a lot of things wrong, and the Uchiha clan is a forever misunderstood tragedy.

Bonus: fuck Tobirama "curse of nonexistent wiener" Senju

___________________________________________

To clarify something:

I am not one of those haters who sit on their moral high horse, point fingers and go "They're such a horrible person, I would never do such a thing. Look at me, the angelic good person, I can't even fathom how someone could do this". Shut up, you're annoying, and what you're saying makes no sense, because you quite frankly can't know what you'd do if you were in that character's shoes, and moreover, it doesn't even matter because it's, guess what, not about you. Quit judging how much of a "scumbag" a character is based on your morality without showing any sort of empathy or understanding of a situation.

You can't relate in the slightest (which is good in this case, I wish nobody ever relates to Itachi's situation), therefore your judgement and morals are irrelevant

Specifically talking about Itachi, I don't can't know if I would've done what he did, because I'm 120% disconnected from the circumstances and laws of his reality. If I were in his shoes and in his universe, I would be an entirely different person with different ideals. Same goes for you.

All this being said, I personally feel iffy about Itachi. I have sympathy for him, but I still think he has objectively fucked up very, very badly.

Plus, I am a Sasuke defender to my core and from a purely pro-sasuke standpoint, he annoys me.

I think I rambled a bit off topic at some point, this is a mess

[lira456]

Rwandan Genocide parallels to Uchiha clan genocide

Hutu led country government discrimination towards minority Tutsi ethnic group of people

Senju led Konoha discrimination towards minority Uchiha clan

[misiuke]

how can you be THIS dumb and write a paragraph full of wrong shit. that game is not canon. also tobirama is a little racist bitch, he wasn't just on guard. this mf has the gall to say uchiha are animals. is this the kind of mentality people use to justify genocide? they were animals so they deserve to die! this side of fandom likes to use fillers to justify their points so it doesn't surprise me.

plus y'all need to stop acting like senju were saints. butsuma who thought his 7 year old son was a full-fledged shinobi, tobirama who created the academy and chunin exams encouraging children to become shinobi and kill each other like the village's purpose was to protect children, hashirama who turned a blind eye to tobirama's policies and distributed the tailed beasts and messed up the power imbalance between nations.

poor hikari, people want her to live with uzumaki sunshine family when in reality hinata's clan does the worse version of this shit and use their clansmen as slaves.

[the-real-sasuke-uchiha]

First Senju hokage: spreads mass destruction weapons and keeps the most powerful one for himself.

Second Senju hokage: excludes a whole clan from politics so his family and disciples can hoard all the power. Invents a zombie jutsu to use dead people for war. Makes children fight to the death for the enjoyment of powerful warmongers.

Konoha bootlickers: "The Uchiha Massacre was justified. The Uchiha were evil and power thirsty, the Senju are the clan of cooperation and love...."