#bc I always said I wouldn't get involved in fandom discourse

[userparamore]

bless you, paracunt and other lovely gifmakers for giving all of us paramore updates on tumblr. I hate going to twt and insta so much cause so many paramore fans there have a problem with everything 😭 I've seen so much discourse and arguments between paramore fans and swifties that the photo updates don’t show up on the timeline anymore

The band is full of 30 year old adults, why are fans babying them and acting like taylor swift forced them to be openers. They chose this and they seem to be enjoying it. The most logical thing I could think of is that their decision to open for Taylor is just a mix of both their longterm friendship with tswfit and also it’s much more convenient for an independent band that has their own very new record label to just join someone else’s tour rather than planning their own headlining one, especially since their last headline tour which was funded by Warner was their most successful one and it had the highest budget so it will be hard to try to top that

Idk why they didn’t make sure to include Europe and Asia while under Warner contract for tiw tour and will be forever bitter about that (I haven’t seen them in 7 years) but at this point there’s just no use in complaining constantly and acting like we’re better than swifties cause a lot of paramore fans are being as condescending and acting all high and mighty as those old rock fans that would make fun of hayley when she features on rock sound or rolling stones magazines

thank you for this lovely message! <3 i'm trying my best to keep up with updates and unfortunately need to go on twitter to find them. but luckily i use it so rarely and follow too few account to see much discourse.

but there is a reason why i'm still here on tumblr in the fandom, and that is bc it is the lovliest community here. i have expressed my criticism of the band and their decisions, and always appreciate that we can have an adult conversation about paramore without fighting or being nasty. i have always thought it is important to recognize that just bc you are a big fan of someone, that they are capable of making mistakes or do things you don't agree with– and that is okay.

the whole taylor swift tour is unfortunate and i think there wouldn't have been so much discourse around it if they had done their own solo tour in europe/asia, and completed this is why with a full world tour. i get that there are other factors involved aka the new label, and that they are in a little bit of an uncertain part of their career as it is the beginning of independent paramore. fandom "wars" have always been present on the internet, and honestly i try my best to stay out of it. it is easy to get sucked into it, wanting to defend your fave or whatever, and i can admit that i've been a condescending paramore fan lol

in the end i'm happy for the european paramore fans who also are swifties, and i hope they have a great time this summer. and it's not like swifties aren't welcome into the parafamily- i'm happy that paramore have the opportunity to grow their fanbase and that new people will be able to discover paramore.

i think, just for my own personal opinion on this, as a long-term european fan, it does feel a little like a betrayal. there is no secret that paramore are a very us-american-centric band, and all the stuff they do will always be with the us in mind. and like you said "i haven’t seen them in 7 years" while the us have had two full tours in 1 year feels.... well not great (and honestly i become a bad person when i see americans complaining that "they didn't come to my state" 😭 stfu). i do think that disappointment bleeds into this eras tour situation where a lot of the negativity we're seeing are just disappointment bubbling to the surface.

[rollercoasterwords]

do you ever regret writing atydsp, not cuz of the work itself but cuz of being part of that whole convo

hmmm. i dunno....wouldn't say i regret writing it but sometimes i do regret like. sharing it on the internet lol. but moreso bc of the way it went viral...although if it hadn't i wouldn't have ventured into fandom and made the friends i've made etc....but also would likely be free of the curse of hp involvement in 2023 lmao.

not really sure what "being part of that whole convo" entails here, bc like i said i don't use tiktok or twitter and here on tumblr i've curated my space so that i'm really only seeing posts from + interacting w beloved mutuals <3 so whatever discourse is going on w atyd at any given time if my (user)name is being brought into it then i am blissfully ignorant + do not care 2 get involved, and i haven't really had trouble avoiding it thus far. so i guess i haven't really had much reason 2 regret it....and like. if i ever did really regret it i could always orphan or delete the work or leave the fandom etc it's not like i'm trapped here lol

[wellknownwolf]

I want to move into a new phase in my relationship with fandom, as I mature with new experiences. I'm not sure what exactly that looks like though. What is your take on the parasocial affection inherent in an RPF like Rhett & Link? Or even the deep attachments that can form with fictional characters? Or a desire to emulate fantasy worlds? I'm sorry if I've made you uncomfortable with all this, it's just that it's been a long time coming, and once I got started I couldn't stop. - Natasha (5)

First, let me post the full question, since it came in 5 parts:

Hey, it's me again. Your 'mystery inquirer', as you so adorably dubbed me. You're right, I had forgotten I'd sent in that ask. Just now, I couldn't help but think about a scene from Life After, as I am wont to on a frightfully regular basis, which is what got me back here. When you said you pondered over my seemingly simple, banal question for a good while, and wrote out a beautifully thoughtful answer like you always do, it made me happy.

Your narrative voice is similar to my own, and it made my chest ache in a certain way to have gotten such a response to what felt like a random shout out into the abyss (though it obviously wasn't, I sent it directly to you, I guess it's more what it felt like taking a chance on a conversation with a random stranger online). And now I'm cringing a bit at how melodramatic all sounds. But I'm committing to it, anyway. That's the beauty of anon, eh?

Wolfie (is it presumptuous to call you that? Please do forgive me the liberty I'm taking), I must admit. I'm quite envious of this community you have with @missingparentheses, @lunar-winterlude, and other wonderful people. Since childhood, I've been head over heels in love with fandom. Not a specific fandom, I've been a traveller through dozens, but fandom in general. I've read probably thousands of fanfics, spent countless hours daydreaming about beloved characters and their stories.

To the point where, in my most recent and worst depressive episode, it may have been for the worse, if I'm honest. Escapism and yearning to the point of impairment, engendering a sense of constant bereavement. But it's taught me so much about life and its wonders, I can't write it off as just some damaging habit. It's such an integral part of who I am, a deeply curious soul (shout out to my Enneagram Type 5-ers out there!). But I don't anyone to share it with, and it can get quite lonely.

I want to move into a new phase in my relationship with fandom, as I mature with new experiences. I'm not sure what exactly that looks like though. What is your take on the parasocial affection inherent in an RPF like Rhett & Link? Or even the deep attachments that can form with fictional characters? Or a desire to emulate fantasy worlds? I'm sorry if I've made you uncomfortable with all this, it's just that it's been a long time coming, and once I got started I couldn't stop. - Natasha

.....................................................................

Thank you for giving me so much to respond to, Natasha.  Thank you for continuing to reach out.   I accidentally wrote something like a paper in response to your thoughtful question.  I even conducted a little research and cited a source.  ENGLISH TEACHER, ACTIVATE!

Also, for what it’s worth, I feel at times that I communicate exclusively through shouts into the abyss, so it’s a language with which I am at home.  In fact, it is this very technique, this experiment with intense vulnerability at the hands of a virtual stranger, that earned me one of my absolutely most-treasured friends: @missingparentheses.  I have poured out a great deal of my own melodrama to her, and she has received it and reciprocated it in a way that, three years later, continues to teach me how to be a better friend.  In short, I’m a firm believer in diving straight in when it comes to new friends.  Cringe not; I’m on board.

So let’s dive.

R&L is really only the second “fandom” with which I’ve been involved.  Third, if we count my preteen obsession with ‘N Sync (and considering how much wall space I dedicated to their posters and self-printed photos, we probably should).  My point is, while I don’t have much experience with the community facet of fandom, I do relate to your feeling of near-obsession.  Or clear obsession.  

I know the feeling of escapism you’re describing, and I know the yearning and melancholy that can come on our worst days, where we feel like “real life” will never measure up to the color and brilliance of the worlds we spend so much time considering. These worlds, these characters and their relationships, their challenges, victories, and defeats all seem so purposeful: they’re the plot points we use to craft the stories in our heads (regardless of whether we’re writers at all).  It can be much harder to view ourselves as protagonists worth analyzing, viewing and reviewing through new lenses, perhaps because we’re warned against navel-gazing, perhaps because our self-perception just won’t allow for it.  Maybe a little of both.

But yes!  It teaches us!  We DO learn about life, other people, love, risk, all kinds of things through what we consume in these fandoms, so I would never classify it as a “bad” thing.  We hone our imaginations and learn to pay attention to our own emotions as we recognize feelings from our favorite shows, games, books, and characters arising in ourselves.  

I used to be a little afraid of the fact that I was always telling myself stories, internally imagining myself as someone else, a player in the worlds I often loved more than my own.  I suspected that someday, somehow, I would be caught playing pretend all the time in my own little ways.  I was a bright and ambitious young woman, so why would I give so much of my mental energy to such frivolous pursuits?

In my first semester of graduate school, though, I learned from a Lit. Theory professor who intimidated the hell out of me that we all do this.  We’re all telling ourselves stories all the time, some of which are true and close to objective reality, some of which are more subjective to whatever fantastical (or fandom) material we last consumed.  I’ve whispered my own dialogue in the shower, but so have you whispered yours in your head (if not also out loud in your shower!).  And through this act, however it is performed, I have made those worlds part of my own.  So have you.  In this way, they are real, and I no longer feel fearful of being “found out.”  

When we have those moments of doubt, though, when we wonder whether we’re going too far, it probably stems, at least partially, from the “us v. them” divide between fandom and mainstream society.  We love our little worlds, but we also feel that twinge of anxiety that we might be bordering on obsession, that our guilty pleasure might be discovered and we will be socially punished for it, namely, as Joli Jensen writes in “Fandom as Pathology: The Consequences of Characterization,” because “the fan is characterized as (at least potentially) an obsessed loner, suffering from a disease of isolation, or a frenzied crowd member, suffering from a disease of contagion. In either case, the fan is seen as being irrational, out of control, and prey to a number of external forces” (13). According the consistent covert (and overt, at times) messages of the mainstream, “[f]andom is conceived of as a chronic attempt to compensate for a perceived personal lack of autonomy, absence of community, incomplete identity, lack of power and lack of recognition” (Jensen 17).  Yikes.  That doesn’t feel good to admit about ourselves, does it?  

Luckily, it’s bullshit.

Treating “fans” as others (outsiders, people who can’t form relationships or find fulfillment in the “real world”) “risks denigrating them in ways that are insulting and absurd” (Jensen 25).  Those who take this stance, who see fans as victims of hysteria or desperate loners, do so in order to “develop and defend a self-serving moral landscape.  That terrain cultivates in us a dishonorable moral stance of superiority, because it makes other into examples of extrinsic forces, while implying that we [members solely of the mainstream] somehow remain pure, autonomous, ad unafflicted” (Jensen 25).  In short, that us/them thinking just makes people feel better about themselves by pointing out an easily-identifiable “other.”

 I have also grappled with the concept of parasocial affection, particularly with R&L.  I was well into writing my first Rhink fic when the thought crossed my mind, “Oh my god, what if I actually met these people someday?  How would I look them in the eye?  I’d feel like a crazy person (again)!”  From the safety of the Midwest, I laughed off the thought.  And then a year or so later, they were announcing their first tour. And I was still writing, here and there, still deep in my affection for them, sometimes wrestling with the thought that I’ve devoted so much energy to people who would never know I exist.  

It doesn’t matter that the attachment was in the most obvious, tangible ways only one-sided.  As an adult who is ever-learning how to navigate the worlds of her own creation and the ones over which she has far less control, I view my intense attachment to characters both real and fictional with deep fondness.   And while I may not receive affection or attention directly from the sources (R&L, fictional characters, sports teams, who/whatever we build fandoms around), I am still earning some very real rewards for my involvement: Because of them, I found my way to a participatory culture in which I was supported and encouraged to express my creativity.  This gave me the push and interest that I needed to hone skills that have not only made me a better writer, but also a better teacher and mentor.  With fandom comes the ability to immediately strike up a conversation over shared interests. With fandom comes a sense of belonging in what we have proven is an awfully divisive world.  

Right now, I’m consuming far less fandom-related material than I did a few years ago.  I don’t really watch GMM anymore and I’m on a break from Ear Biscuits (though I still love it), Gotham ended over a year ago and I’m not in the habit of reading fics right now, and I can’t yet play the remade Final Fantasy 7, so that’s out for me, too (though I know I will fall deep into that well once the game is in my hot little hands).  This all happened by itself.  I never consciously moved away from these sources; I just floated on to other interests and other levels of interest, knowing that if and when I wanted to dig back in, I could always come back.  

I used to feel quite sad at the thought of someday “moving on” from these intense interests.  I couldn’t fathom somehow falling out of love with those bands, actors, or video games.  But for me, the transition into wherever I am now has not been painful in the least.  I’m glad I knew the intensity that I did, and I’m happy with the distance I have now. And there’s a good chance I’ll be fanatic about something else someday.  I’m looking forward to it!

 Here are some responses that I couldn’t organically fit into my essay:

Yes, you can call me Wolfie if you’d like.  That name started with @missingparentheses (her second appearance in this answer!), and quickly became a reminder to not take myself too seriously.  

Second, I don’t think I know any other Type 5s!  I’m a type 8. 

Also, here’s my MLA formatted citation for the Jensen source:

Jensen, Joli. “Fandom as Pathology: The Consequences of Characterization.”   The Adoring Audience: Fan Culture and Popular Media, Routledge, 1992, pp. 9-29.

[leeminholinoing]

Hi Chloe, this has nothing to do with the fandom discourse in the last few days but i was thinking about Pleasing and as you usually talk about it, I would like to ask if you think it will keep on being a nailpolish/skincare brand?

I haven't bought anything from Pleasing because the prices are too high and i also don't usually use nailpolish, so it really doesn't make much sense to me. And i also noticed especially in the last drop that people seem less interested on the brand than before. Like, i mostly heard people talk about the beach bag and not much about the nailpolishes.

Wouldn't it make sense if they expanded the brand to like clothes and acessories? Because i think that's what most fans are interested in. I think harries want to use something that connects them to Harry, and basic nailpolish just doesn't do that. And the fact that people don't really see Harry super involved with the brand doesn't seem to help either.

I just don't see harries keep on buying overpriced nailpolish every 3 moths for much longer. And they are also not even trying to expand the brand outside Harry's fandom. Pleasing doesn't really seem much susteinable to me. But what are your thoughts on it?

Hi! I actually looked on the website this morning and saw that only the beach bag was sold out from the latest drop 😬

I've also noticed that harries have been less into it and really only cared about the first drop when harry seemed to be more involved. I absolutely loooooove that they decided to be smart about their money and also calling out hshq members for trying to sell them stuff just by putting harry's name on it.

I think you're right by saying people are more interested in the apparels and accessories than the beauty products and wanting to wear something harry has worn seems to also be their main criteria to buy things and I tend to think like them.

If I liked the brand and the people behind it I would have maybe bought that first crewneck they sold just because harry had worn it and it was simple and pretty.

I'll be honest I really want this brand to flop because it really seems to me like harry's "friends" tried to capitalize on his fans without trying to actually do something the fans would like. I hate the tone of their campaigns and I hated the "giving back to fans" narrative.

I think having three drops in less than a year is asking too much out of fans and they also weirdly time the drops with other things harry releases so obviously fans will buy harry's music and merch before buying nail polish and skincare. I don't think they'll be able to keep this rhythm for long and you can already tell by the last drop that there was less budget than for shroom bloom (no celebrities as the face, no popup shop just caravans, no translator for the italian names). Them also using blue and green to try to get larries on board was so on the nose, it was ridiculous and frankly a good sign that they are getting desperate.

They kind of shot themselves in the foot by saying it was harry styles' genderless nail polish brand because they can't stop selling polish now which is the least appealing of their products (with the skincare stuff). If they were clever they'd try to sell candles too (which is something most of us have always wanted from harry) but like you I can't see this brand making a mark in the beauty world. They should try getting people outside of this fandom on board bc clearly they haven't gain many consumers within the fandom.

jeff once said "the metric is to exist" and he doesn't seem to have learned anything in the past 7 years so I don't think he has the endurance or the creativity to change course and find new ways to engage harry's fandom AND people interested in polish/skincare as a whole. Him, Molly and Harry L thought harries were stupid and would buy whatever shit they would sell with harry's name but they were wrong and I'm living for harries proving them (and me tbh) wrong!