#because i'm sure arya's skills helped her to survive

[winterprince601]

tired dad, ned stark: oh gee, bran's wolf saved him from an assassin. i should have let the girls keep the wolves... i suppose if it will keep her safe, arya can study the blade.

arya, immediately covered in cat scratches and suspicious bruises, balancing blindfolded at the top of the highest set of stairs she could possibly find in the red keep: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

I'm curious, what is your take on Sansa and Sansa's ending? What is the message of her arc in the show? I love that she is QitN and I believe she will be a good queen. She is a competent administrator, just, politically skilled, and will work to restore the North. It will take years to rebuild. I however, HATE that she had no one left in Winterfell. (My head canon is that Jon gets a rest, then a pardon, and comes home to help Sansa rebuild in peace.)

Hey, Nonnie! =)

Oh wow, you know, I have to absolutely agree with you. I was very sad that Sansa had no one there with her in the end. I mean, I get that Arya needed to go off and do her own thing, to be free, but out of every pack member, I expected her to be there and have Sansa's back like she did the whole time she had been in Winterfell once they reconciled. I certainly didn't expect Jon's ending but at the same time, I wasn't sure if they would allow Jon to stay with Sansa or in Winterfell at all. So I was counting on my girl, Arya, to be the one that stayed. (though I will admit I did not see Bran's ending coming because who the hell could have? that whole arc progression made no narrative sense to me tbh)

I think that's one of the things that bothers me most when people say about Sansa 'well, at least your fave character survived. not only that, but she got to be Queen, you should be happy with that' and it's like, yeah...but at what cost? That coronation scene always makes me sad because even though she's looking out into the room at all of her people gathered, there's no one there that loves her like her family loves her, looking back. And many of the GA vastly misunderstood her character and her motivations, and why this would be a very bittersweet ending for her. All she ever wanted was to be safe within the walls of her home, and to have the pack safe and back home with her. So while, yes, she is safe, and in power so they are never at anyone's mercy again, the pack has scattered to the four winds. And that just breaks my heart when I think how hard she worked to ensure not only their independence but also her family's safety. A lot of people say 'oh, Sansa was power hungry and wanted to be Queen' but completely dismiss how tirelessly she worked to keep Jon's crown for him, until he definitely wasn't able to ever take it back. It's interesting, people are more likely to examine Dany and Cersei's motivations and characters (which, they should, no character in this universe is single-faceted) but when it comes to the third part of that equation, who has been paralleled to both women throughout the series, the examination and desire to look beneath the surface stops and instead she's relegated to 'Sansafinger' and 'jealous and power hungry' and 'Dany's death is all her fault' instead. It's quite disturbing actually. She wasn't any of these things. She only did the best she could with what she had, and her desire had always been for safety and for the safety of her family. She wanted to be taken seriously, to be able to help and become a valued contributor (when Jon was King), but ultimately safety was her main goal. And what better way to attain that than by the North becoming independent (so they and the North are never at the South's mercy ever again or anyone else's), the Starks remaining in power and within Winterfell (the seat of power of the North), and keeping the pack together (so they and Sansa can remain safe and they never experience the tragedy and loss that they did throughout the series)? I just want to shake these people by the shoulders sometimes lol. The ones that say these things about Sansa's character without truly understanding what makes her tick and who she really is.

I agree with you, she is a very competent ruler, and she is definitely just and fair. I think all along, in the show, they had been hinting at Sansa being a queen that people would love rather than fear or feel indifferent towards. Just the bells ringing from sunrise to sunset on the day she was born was a big flashing neon sign, I think. Especially when compared to the story of Dany's birth. And I am super grateful they actually showed us Sansa in action in season 7 and then season 8, all of the steps she was taking to ensure that the North kept working together to prepare for the upcoming battle with the NK, that she kept Jon's men still there while also offering shelter and sanctuary to those who would flee to Winterfell, and rationing out food and supplies to make sure every last person was taken care of. Even right down to the very valid point she makes to Dany about the men in 8x04 that all Dany stans immediately disregard and accuse her of hating on their fave. (its like no, actually, that's a pretty solid point, let the men rest up so they can be at full strength and then take KL, they literally just fought an undead army, I think they deserved a weekend's leave for crying out loud) I'm just really glad we got to see all of it. In my mind, I was like, 'yass Queen, you rule' when watching it LOL. But I also felt vindicated in a way, like 'yes, this is exactly who Sansa is, people', especially when she saw Arya and Bran again for the first time, saying how much she missed Jon, and even when she and Arya argued before reconciling. But of course, somehow some people still missed all of these things. 🙄

Her ending was actually very interesting to me. As soon as I saw her walk, I was like, 'oh they're going for an Elizabethian ending, right.' From the calculated walk, to the people falling on their knees as she passed, right down to the hair. But to me, I also saw that they kept her hair unbound and flowing freely as a sign to the audience that she is no longer echoing or channeling anyone she has learned from, and that in this moment she is just Sansa, and this is a new beginning for her. The only influence she had right then was her family, being channeled through her crown and dress. But ultimately, she is Sansa Stark and a new era is beginning. Just like it did when Elizabeth was crowned. A golden age, if you will. I think the show gave her this ending (I have no idea where GRRM is going in the books, tbh) because not only was it important for her story that they had told thus far, but to also show that she was a survivor and the best candidate to lead the North. Just for a second, I'm going to use Tudor history to explain why I think this is why they chose this particular imagery for Sansa's ending scene (outside of the obvious reasons and the ones I just mentioned). Sansa was Regent when Jon left Winterfell to go to Dragonstone. She literally performed the same duties that Katherine of Aragon did when Henry VIII went off to war. Just as almost nearly every Queen has done in history (when they were Queen Consort). When Elizabeth becomes Queen, we all know she infamously became the Virgin Queen, refusing to take a King Consort, and her rule lasted for years without her ever taking one. Imho, they purposely chose this imagery to show us that not only had Sansa transcended her original Lady Of Winterfell and "key to the North" title, but also that this was a transcendent moment for her where she could stand alone on her own two feet. She is no longer a key for someone to try to grasp or acquire to gain the North, she is the North. Just as Elizabeth became England and the royal "We." That's what I personally think they were trying to show when it came to her ending.

As for them leaving Sansa all alone there (which I just absolutely hate, I'll keep saying it LOL), I think they did that because they were aiming for "bittersweet" and also to subvert people's expectations. (if there was ever a word I hated with a passion for the past 3 years, it's 'subvert', thanks D&D) I think they purposely played up the Ned and Cat come-again framing, the unresolved romantic tension between Jon and Sansa, the return of Arya and Bran, in order to get everyone thinking 'well, if the Starks survive, obviously it will be the wolves come again, the pack stays together' and then to completely turn it all on its head. So there would be shock and awe and unpredictability, that no audience member would have ever seen that coming. (they sort of succeeded, I never saw Bran's ending or even Arya's coming) I think that's why they did it, while also showing that Sansa had become Queen in the end, but at a cost. She was strong, could stand on her own, but hey, she doesn't get to have everything. Which is what I feel they did with everyone else. Dany got to have the IT but at a terrible cost. Jon got to protect Sansa (and by extension, keep his family and the North safe) but at a terrible cost. Tyrion got to live and even become Hand again but at a terrible cost (though they try to make it about his not being mentioned in the story, I think the cost was actually losing Jaime and Cersei, as well as what happened with Dany). Brienne got to live and serve Bran, remain a knight, and finish Jaime's story, but at a terrible cost. So, that's why I think they did it that way. Very multi-layered, but ultimately, Sansa got to live and become Queen, she was able to achieve independence for the North and guarantee all of their safety, but at a terrible cost. Not only the family they lost over the series, but also losing Jon, Arya, and Bran. Again. Even though Sansa paid enough throughout the show (and in my opinion, she deserved way better), to get that crown, to get that independence, to get that safety, she had to pay something else. Bittersweet, indeed.

So, as far as her message goes, I'm not sure what the exact message is that they were aiming for. Like I think Dany's is pretty clear, Cersei's, Jon's, etc. But Sansa, I'm not sure. To me, I think the lesson she learned over the show (besides the many obvious political ones) is to be careful what you wish for, that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. And I think that's summed up by that line she has from 6x10: "Back then I only thought about what I wanted, never about what I had." But after everything she's been through, especially in season 5, I don't quite feel comfortable sticking to that message? If that makes sense. So I'm not really sure what her definitive message really is tbh. I'm sure it will be a little clearer to me once I read the other books.

I love your headcanon, Nonnie, and I whole-heartedly agree with it. That's what I think, too. Jon gets to take a nap (let the man have a nap 2021), a rest, and eventually he goes back home. I think there's very good evidence for that sequence of events to be a little more than just a headcanon. There's certainly an air of unfinished that surrounds Jon's and Sansa's stories separately and together. I would even venture to say Arya's, but her story was closed up just a fraction more than Jon's and Sansa's were. Everything was left open-ended and I do believe that had the show continued past this point, we would have seen Jon and Sansa reunite at some point, and that she absolutely would not be alone for the rest of her life. I think she definitely would have welcomed a visit and even Jon's help to rebuild, like you said. And I can see them working together, utilizing their strengths and complementing each other in only a way that they can. Jon's style of ruling was very similar to Sansa's, despite their disagreements. We saw that in season 5 when Jon was Lord Commander. He absolutely knew how vital the food supply was and he had similar experiences of ruling to Sansa. From the armor to the food to the dealing with someone who needs to be executed to listening to their people's complaints. Very similar. So it would only make sense if Jon came back and helped her to take up that burden and they did it together. I know Michele Clapton said the second wolf in Sansa's crown is Robb but I like to think that eventually it will be Jon, and he will be the wolf holding the other wolf's head up (Sansa's) and they will rule together.

I hope I answered your question, Nonnie. I rambled on a bit like I always do, sorry about that LOL. I hope some of it kind of made some semblance of sense lol. I just love talking about GoT and especially Sansa. I love her character dearly and I have so many thoughts when it comes to her and Jon, separately and together. Thank you for the ask! I hope you have a wonderful rest of your weekend. <3

[yeniayofnymeria]

A Song of Ice and Fire "Champions" (Theory)

Hello everone, i want to share my own theory about long night and it's champions. It’s about Arya and Dany.

First, I'm sorry for my poor English, i helped from google translate, hope you can understand what i mean.

Introduction

The legend of the Long Night and AA has been discussed many times, but I want to approach it from a different topic. As you know, there are two fundamental forces in the universe of asoiaf, and we are reading the war of these two forces; ice and fire.

Power representing the ice side; It's called the Great Other. He is the god of death, of terror, of night. The Spirit of Ice.

Power representing the fire side; It's called R'hllor. He is the god of light, of life, of fire.

"...The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." Melisandre

And this...

"The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war." Melisandre 

Of cource from Melisandre's perspective "Great Other... dead... is pure evil" But if we could ask it to ice side, they will said same thing for fire side, yeah? So do not mind the words of good and evil. Just focus the sides... I always say "the war between ice and fire" is like same as Stark and Lannister war. We saw both sides did bad things(Arya POVs), and both sides had good reason for battle. Who can say Starks are pure good but Lannisters are pure evil? I'm a Stark fan and i cannot say this.

So let's return our battle. Ice side wants eternal winter and fire side wants eternal summer. Well, i can say both of this are not good something, this is not a balance. Imagine living in the heat of desert or cold waether of north pole. Just one season, nothing more. Wildings live in north and they doesn't want to live there because life is so hard in there.

Prophecies

And I know, AA sound like a hero but who knows this? Really, we should trust the prophecises? I do not think so.

GRRM: " Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy... "

and Marwyn

"Born amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. I know the prophecy." Marwyn turned his head and spat a gob of red phlegm onto the floor. "Not that I would trust it. Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is . . . and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time." He chewed a bit. "Still . . ."

and Tyrion

"Prophecy is like a half-trained mule," he complained to Jorah Mormont. "It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head."

So guys, do not trust prophecy so much. :)

It doesn't mean AA is evil, forget evil word or good, ok? Both sides want to win this war this why they need a campion, and this champions are hero for their sides, that's all. Yeah but not for everyone, special not for common folk. You know, always common folk gets hurt in somebody's war.

Also AA prophecy comes from Asshai, a hero, a savior... That place so close to Yi Ti, Dawn Empire. Who caused the Long Night? Blood Stone Emperor. The Long Night was a punishmed for them(Dawn people and their emperor)which it was sent by Night's Lion. Some kind of revenge(ice is revenge). Who was Night's Lion? God of Night, God of Dead! So this why AA is against to ice, Great Other(Night's Lion).

But at Westeros, there is no AA or savior, a hero against Great Other... Yeah, there is a Last Hero, true but his story and mission are little different from aa's story.

According to Asshai, AA finished the Long Night but according to North, Last Hero found Childiren of Forest and get put together them and Night's Watch and First Men and fought against Others and won somehow.

The Champions

Actually, I want to focus on this word. R’hllor's warrior is also known as the “champion"

In the ASOIAF universe, in battles, sometimes there are champions both sides. They fight each other for win, In this way, sometimes armies do not have to fight... You need a champion if you want a trial by combat at Westeros. Of course, the other side has a champion too. Of your champion wins, you survive.

In summary, if there is a champion, it has to be valid for both sides.

Champions of Ice and Fire

Is there champion of ice? Well at least, we know Melisandre think so.

But beyond the Wall, the enemy grows stronger, and should he win the dawn will never come again. She wondered if it had been his face that she had seen, staring out at her from the flames. No. Surely not. His visage would be more frightening than that, cold and black and too terrible for any man to gaze upon and live. The wooden man she had glimpsed, though, and the boy with the wolf's face … they were his servants, surely … his champions, as Stannis was hers.

We might think that the ice side will have a champion. Like fire side.

Well we assume fire side's champion is Dany. Yeah, some people thinks Jon is AA but AA must be full fire but he is ice and fire by his parents. Dany suits more than him and looks she fulfilled the prophecy.

Also i belive Jon is a balance; he is ice and fire; dark and light; dead and life. First Dawn Emperor was son of Maiden of Light(fire) and Night's Lion(ice) and in his reign there was wealth and peace. Why? Because he was half ice, half fire; half light, half night; half dead, hald life... He was balance. If you realize Jon also dead now and when he comes back he will literally be dead and life, a ghost, neither literally dead nor alive, but both. There is a darkness inside him (especially after resurrection) and also there is light. I belive you got it. :)

So ok, Jon is balance... Dany is AA... then who is Ice's champion?

R'hllor's champion was full fire. Great Other's champion must be full ice? A Stark. A First Men, Daughter of North. Someone who smells death. Someone serving the god of death. Arya Stark.

She says the names of the people she wants to die in her prayer. Death accepts it. Why is that? Because she is messenger of dead, champion of Great Other.

Women are in a strong position in this book. Usually we are used to seeing men in the foreground in everything. That's why we're waiting for the hero or anything like that to turn out to be men. But not in this book. 5000 years ago, The Others's leader(or something like that) was a women; Night's Queen. We do not know what was it but she had a plan and used for this a NW member, Lord Commander, probably a Stark. Night's King.

If AA ise Dany, then it makes sense that Great Other's champion is a woman. It would be fun to watch two women's war. Dragon Queen and Wolf Queen, ice and fire. Also Arya's skills for what? Just for kill her list? No! He is one of the big five of GRRM. Like the other four, she should have a big impact on this war.

“If a twelve-year old has to conquer the world, then so be it.”

I believe FM is connected Great Other. God of Dead is Great Other. And Arya with them. Jaqen was around Arya and lead her to FM. Why? Too young to be FM. The Kind Man said her training would take years. But she's only been there for a few months, but she took a face. They taught her. They know exactly what she wants, but they keep her with them. They're giving her an accelerated course.

Ghost of High Heart saw what was inside her and her future

The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. "I see you," she whispered. "I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . ." She began to sob, her little body shaking. "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

Arya hears some whisper. Sounds like someone's talking to him.

Calm as still water, a small voice whispered in her ear. Arya was so startled she almost dropped her bundle. She looked around wildly, but there was no one in the stable but her, and the horses, and the dead men. Quiet as a shadow, she heard. Was it her own voice, or Syrio's? She could not tell, yet somehow it calmed her fears.

And this.

"But there is no pack," she whispered to the weirwood. Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall. "I'm not even me now, I'm Nan." "You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you." “Wolf blood,” Arya now remembered.

So what do you think?

[isagrimorie]

Yes thank you on your post on post Westerosi politics. I know the last season has been lambasted for the writing but I'm really interested in what comes after. What economic policies will Sansa I be exploring. I want the nitty gritty of running a whole kingdom. I also like to think that she's going to be introducing some form of the magna carta to protect the smallfolk or women from further abuse

I also surprised myself with my interest in the post-GoT Westerosi politics. It might also be the influence of Dune where the Atreides family had to deal with winning an Empire and eventually their descendants turning into a God Emperor. (’Every revolution brings with it the seeds of their own destruction’). 

But also the rebuilding of a kingdom is also pretty damned fascinating too!

Think about it with  all the debt Lannister and Baratheon Houses have and how much the other Houses owe the Iron Bank, plus all the rebuilding the Six Kingdoms, particularly Highgarden and Kings Landing has to do? The Iron Bank will be looming over the Six Kingdoms. 

The Iron Bank has lost pretty significant amounts of gold from supporting various failed causes. 

Also, looking back on the scene where Ned Stark was pretty shock at the Kingdom’s debt I think both Ned and Catelyn were pretty good money managers. Winterfell was powerful and rich but they were not super rich like the Lannisters. 

Catelyn is also a Tully so managing and budgeting finances is a skill every Tully would be born with, especially since they always have to balance between all the kingdoms arrayed on all sides. 

TLDR Bronn doesn’t know anything about business or money management, he spent money as soon as he comes to it. 

Then again, maybe an upstart bank will rise and push Iron Bank from it’s superior position. My meager (and wiki gained) knowledge of Venetian and Florence banks also pointed out that the War of Five Roses eventually wiped out the Medici’s coffers contributing to the eventual fall of the Medici. 

Because despite Cersei paying off their debts Cersei immediately took out a loan to get the Golden Company, as the planning meeting addressed in 8x05, King’s Landing was falling deeper into debt day by day. 

The Iron Bank won’t be getting any payment back from that loan and most likely, in a desperate bid to get some return of investment the Iron Bank will probably pressure the only remaining Lannister  who also happens to be the new Hand. (Seriously, way to fail up there. Keep giving terrible strategic advice and still get the second most powerful position in the land). 

Little Finger might be a terrible person but he knows how to increase revenue and invest. This is something Sansa would surely pick up too, and from my research Winterfell never borrowed anything from the Iron Bank so, yeah, stretched treasury but nothing that won’t be fixed come Spring. 

The way things are now in the United Kingdoms of Westeros (does this make the Northern Kingdom Scotland or Ireland then?) they are in a far more precarious place and it makes me curious how the regular citizen, er, small folk are taking this. Probably doesn’t care and hope the royals would stop their damned wars. 

I really think that another competing bank can emerge from this, where it would come from and which lands will be the mystery. 

As for the magna carta thing…. hmm, I know that Sansa does care and I know she’s seen what it’s like when a sovereign doesn’t care for their people but I’m not sure if she would make that leap. 

It would be interesting if someone would confront Sansa on this issue and keep pushing Sansa to her better angels as Toby Zieglar of West Wing would push Bartlet. 

Also, I would like for Sansa to have a full council back please, Stark way of governance is to have a full council with Lords and Ladies of their respective houses representing their people.

I want someone to Sansa Sansa, the way she did with Jon. Challenging and pushing him until he comes to a better decision or a better debate for his decisions, which unfortunately he never did. His one debate tactic seemed to be to repeat his position until someone roared in approval or he out stubborned them.

I want a Toby for Sansa.

Can you imagine the awesome and well, the level of grumpy and snark that would come out of this? Better if her version of Toby is a CJ too. or genderswapped Toby. 

(Yes, we have come to my dream team wish list for Team Good North Government. They won’t be perfect but they will give it a good ol’ Winterfell try. 

Again, it’s a dream team so… shhhh….). 

Also, I bet Sansa’s gonna fully implement the rule that surviving leaders of Houses or children heirs will not be permitted to fight until they are of age or have appointed other people to take over in the tragic event of their death. (Looking at you Lady Mormont. This is why, while it’s cool to have you on the field, kids eventually end up dead on a battlefield). 

Um. Did any of that rambling help or answer… 

*jazz hands* Look a three headed monkey!

Also will Arya’s journey West be the first Establishment of the… West Winterfell Trading Company? Let’s all wallow at the uncomfortable implications of that. 

(I love Arya but the implications of that traveling kind of does shade a few things into uncomfortable light).