#but there is a level of interpretation there??

[seventeendeer]

as a fat person who's always clamoring for more interesting fat characters in media, I honestly think one of my all-time favorite depictions of a fat character is Jumba from the original Lilo and Stitch - both visually and personality wise

from a design perspective, even though he's an alien, he has so many little anatomy quirks that make him a more believable fat character than many fat human designs in other media. I love the realistic sag and layering of the fat on his arms, the lack of neck definition, the rim of chub around his face and upper back, the way his back is rounded. his clothes pull taut and pinch in anatomically accurate places (e.g. shoulders are firmer = smoother outlines, the sides and back are squishier = bumpier outlines).

and he's stylized so well! all these great details boiled down to some simple shapes and pen strokes. IMO the Lilo and Stitch art style is extremely appealing - it's warm and clean and visually pleasing, but every character is super unique. Jumba isn't supposed to be pretty, but even though he's a very large, very fat, bald older guy who spends most of the movie in crop tops, the way he's stylized and staged makes it clear the audience is supposed to find him interesting to look at, and variably intimidating/cool/powerful/capable. he's often funny, but the physical aspect of his comedy is derived from being so hefty the other characters struggle to prevent him from barreling ahead and doing whatever he wants; being fat makes him come off more in control of the funny situations he gets into, not less. also, because the art style is what it is, a lot of his character acting also just makes him look kind of cute ... though that's universal across the cast

I also really like the fact that his size clearly gives him both realistic advantages and realistic disadvantages. along with having a stronger sense of agency in the comedic scenes, his size in combination with his impulsivity also makes him a more intimidating antagonist. you never know what he's going to do, and his size makes it difficult for other characters to stop him when he's made up his mind. at the same time, it seems to take him longer to catch his breath, he sometimes grunts when moving around a lot to imply it takes more effort, and he clearly struggled to find clothes that fit him when putting together his disguise. I think it's awesome that the character's size impacts how he interacts with the world so much, and again, in relatable ways

and personality wise, it is ALWAYS great to see fat characters portrayed as intelligent - not only is Jumba an accomplished scientist, he's also crafty and witty! a few quiet scenes imply a philosophical side, as he ponders on Stitch's existence and feelings as a living weapon. with Stitch explicitly being made in his own image to an extent, I'd argue there's even room to interpret some of the things he says about Stitch being hints to how he sees himself; we never learn much about Jumba's past, but it's clear he's a social misfit and strongly defiant. I don't think it's a stretch to assume some of what he said to Stitch about being a monster who can never belong anywhere was intended to read as projection (which makes it all the more heartwarming when both of them find a place to belong on Earth)

it's also a nice twist that toward the end, Jumba is the one who is unexpectedly compassionate toward Nani, while Pleakley tries to urge him to ignore her. again alluding to a level of emotional depth and intelligence that is often missing from even well-intentioned depictions of fat people. his character isn't even fully explored, and yet he's one of the most dynamic and interesting supporting characters in a movie full of fantastic characters. the audience is expected to find him fascinating and even sort of mysterious, and he is!

the sequels and spinoffs were more merchandise-driven franchise fluff for kids than the artsy direction of the original movie, but even so, I remember Jumba went on to become Lilo's lovable, amoral uncle figure, which I also thought was so fun as a kid. I love that they committed to the fact that he was more caring and compassionate than he seemed. not only was he a cool evil mad scientist character, but he was also eventually ... a friend ...

and he was even gay

[thedinoknowsall]

It’s probably already linked in the replies to this post somewhere, but the recent MIT study on arXiv ( https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.08872 ) was very relevant to these points.

The article is very long (like over 150 pages in the main section), so I’ll summarize here: the study put three different groups (LLM with Chat GPT, search engine with Google [with “-ai” to remove AI results], and Brain-only) up to writing SAT essay prompts for about 20 min (which is a pretty typical SAT time for these kinds of essays). They monitored the participants with EEG for brain activity (lots of discussions of alpha and theta waves) then had a set of questions for the participants. Each participant returned for three sessions with different prompts, and there was an optional fourth session that allowed participants to rewrite a previous essay and (though they didn’t know this when they signed up for the fourth session) switch tools.

I don’t know how much I trust the interpreted EEG results (I’m not a neuroscientist) and everything in the article should be taken with a grain of salt because stuff on the arXiv is NOT necessarily peer reviewed* but the questions did bring up very relevant-to-this-posting points about:

Recall of what the participants had literally just written. They were asked to quote from their essay. LLM group consistently failed at this task, even when they knew it was coming in later sessions, Brain-only group consistently passed often with 100% for later sessions. Brain only group also had higher quote accuracy.

Feeling of ownership over the essay. I’m not sure that the LLM group, if they were using the LLM to do most of the writing, should feel ownership over the work, but the authors didn’t do any breakdown of what was written by the participants or copy pasted from elsewhere. The LLM group consistently scored their sense of ownership lower than 100%, while the other groups naturally had higher or near 100% feelings of ownership.

Look, not saying that cheating by using spark notes is fully 100% moral and the right thing to do, but the search engine group were also able to recall quotes from their essays. They (seemingly) used the search engine as a tool for their writing, to find sources and information, not to write it whole-cloth. The study does note, however, that ideas did seem to be biased by the search results, but incorporating external sources into an essay framework is also a skill that requires you to use your brain.

The crazy thing to me is that in the fourth session, the remaining participants were asked to pick a previous prompt to write another essay about (most chose to do one that they had already done before) and a lot of the LLM group didn’t remember all of the previous prompts, while the Brain-only group tended to recall most or all of them.

As an aside anecdote, a colleague had an issue last semester with a student using LLM’s for large chunks of writing a class research paper, and the student was not engaging in critically examining the LLM output at all. Like excitedly asking my colleague about an “new institute” at my university that the LLM had fully hallucinated to justify a claim in the paper level of no critical examination. And. I think that’s partially related to that sense of ownership and engagement in the writing process. This student was treating the LLM output like a fellow student, accepting the claims made by the LLM as if it was truly well thought out work that they didn’t have to scrutinize, and not the most statistically likely combination of terms to relate to a prompt.

And both of these cases (the article and the anecdote) demonstrate a fucking terrifying level of disengagement with writing from these students.

Writing being a tool to communicate thoughts.

Writing being a way to engage in critical thinking.

Writing being the primary way that ideas are recorded and shared everywhere, as it has been for the last 6000-odd years.

Guys, I’m not so sure the kids are alright.

*I’m not sure what the path forward is for that article, as I’m not familiar with the field. Personally, if it is destined for a journal, it’s likely to be trimmed down significantly (it’s like, master thesis length right now). I hope that it does undergo some kind of peer review process: I’m not super familiar with the field and a peer reviewer is likely more familiar with the field, and if there were any logically leaps that I missed (like in the EEG interpretation). I think their explanations of the limitations of the study covered most of my issues with the set up of the study (mainly the small population, and the limited skill of SAT essay writing that the paper explores). I hope that they get to explore this further, and longer term.

Also, a lot of the plots were clearly made in excel and that offends my paper aesthetic sensibilities. But I know and acknowledge that’s a me problem.

Whenever I think about students using AI, I think about an essay I did in high school. Now see, we were reading The Grapes of Wrath, and I just couldn't do it. I got 25 pages in and my brain refused to read any more. I hated it. And its not like I hate the classics, I loved English class and I loved reading. I had even enjoyed Of Mice and Men, which I had read for fun. For some reason though, I absolutely could NOT read The Grapes of Wrath.

And it turned out I also couldn't watch the movie. I fell asleep in class both days we were watching it.

This, of course, meant I had to cheat on my essay.

And I got an A.

The essay was to compare the book and the movie and discuss the changes and how that affected the story.

Well it turned out Sparknotes had an entire section devoted to comparing and contrasting the book and the movie. Using that, and flipping to pages mentioned in Sparknotes to read sections of the book, I was able to bullshit an A paper.

But see the thing is, that this kind of 'cheating' still takes skills, you still learn things.

I had to know how to find the information I needed, I needed to be able to comprehend what sparknotes was saying and the analysis they did, I needed to know how to USE the information I read there to write an essay, I needed to know how to make sure none of it was marked as plagerized. I had to form an opinion on the sparknotes analysis so I could express my own opinions in the essay.

Was it cheating? Yeah, I didn't read the book or watch the movie. I used Sparknotes. It was a lot less work than if I had read the book and watched the movie and done it all myself.

The thing is though, I still had to use my fucking brain. Being able to bullshit an essay like that is a skill in and of itself that is useful. I exercised important skills, and even if it wasnt the intended way I still learned.

ChatGTP and other AI do not give that experience to people, people have to do nothing and gain nothing from it.

Using AI is absolutely different from other ways students have cheated in the past, and I stand by my opinion that its making students dumber, more helpless, and less capable.

However you feel about higher education, I think its undeniable that students using chatgtp is to their detriment. And by extension a detriment to anyone they work with or anyone who has to rely on them for something.

[roquog]

Thinking about it a bit more, maybe Pomni being an urban explorer is fitting. Something that jumped out at me in the first episode was Pomni going through the exit door when it reappeared because it wasn't something I would've done. I would have been too scared to go through on my own and I'd rather potentially miss my chance to escape than get stuck somewhere alone. I imagine urban exploration being a hobby where if you see something weird you just get out. Earlier, when she entered the circus, the first thing she did was run towards an exit. When an abstracted Kaufmo attacked Ragatha, she got out of the way and stood back to watch. I think she had such a big freeze response because she was fighting every instinct in order to not leave someone behind. The way she looked around the circus in search of Caine made her seem like a natural too.

In episode two, she fell into an out-of-bounds area and she was level-headed enough to grab onto one of the floating objects. When she landed, she seemed mostly uneasy because of Gummigoo's panicking. After talking to him, she got right to work in finding a way out. In episode 3, while being pretty freaked out, she kept her goal set on finding a way out. She tried to walk through a cloud of souls even though she was warned twice.

So Pomni has a reserved personality but is brave enough to explore abandoned buildings? It feels contradictory. It's possible we misunderstood her behavior during the initial shock as social anxiety when she might have acted differently in real-life. Or the fear of people and the fear of a dangerous environment could be completely separate for her. Maybe Ponmi finds reassurance in being able to navigate an unknown place. Reassurance that would be hard to get in social interaction.

I also want to point out how she looked when she shared she was an urban explorer.

[ID: Pomni speaking at the bar scene. She's looking to the side and has her hand on her other arm. The subtitles read "-and I would seek out mild thrills." End ID]

She seemed ashamed which was a little weird. I wouldn't know but in a casual group I thought these kinds of hobbies would be looked at with intrigue despite their danger and legality. It does seem out of character, so maybe she was embarrassed because of that?

[ID: Pomni in the same scene looking down into her drink where her face is reflected. She has a finger on the rim of the glass. She says, "It was just something I did for me." End ID]

It feels significant, but there are many ways to interpret her reaction. What I thought was that she was lying with a partial truth about her reasons for going into the C&A building.

[toriaaniin]

A Blob and a Synchronicity

Decoding the Stroller Photo, June 17 energy, and the truth that refuses to stay hidden.

When I made the case the other day that last week’s loud social media activity was a deliberate misdirection — a strategy to pull eyes away from Luke, Nicola, et al. — I briefly mentioned the Stroller Photo. I assumed the image, which had just started circulating the night before (June 19), was already familiar to most of my readers. As it turns out, it wasn’t. I received many comments asking, “What stroller photo?” (link to my June 20 post is below).

Since I initially planned to not write about it, I directed readers to a few other blogs where I understood some thoughtful commentary and analysis could be found.

But after reflecting on the interest — and in response to your questions — I’ve decided to publish the photo here, along with some macro-level thoughts from me. Be aware that what I think might differ from others who are also analyzing this image. And yet, there will likely be overlaps too. Take what resonates. This is a photo that invites multiple interpretations — and that’s part of what makes it so compelling.

A perfect example of a differing viewpoint can be found in my friend ZombieGirl’s excellent post McGuffin or Chekhov’s Smoking Gun?, where she suggests that Nicola’s stylist Aimee is pictured. Me? I don’t see it. Hmmmm??? Let me think on that.

It's always a good idea to read multiple opinions before forming your own!

Here’s the original photo, which was posted as part of a carousel by Mariead Tyers on June 7, 2025. We know that Nicola liked the carousel of images, however we don't know when. While we can only assume that she saw this particular images (second in the carousel), I personally believe that she did.

Our group chat — led fearlessly by ZG — discovered the image on June 17, ten days after it was originally posted. We were honestly amazed that the Lukola FBI hadn’t picked it up and circulated it earlier! As a group, we chose to hold onto it, take our time analyzing and researching, and allow the photo to surface organically within the fandom. That’s also why I didn’t write about it at first — I wanted it to breathe without my take influencing people’s initial reactions.

But here’s something I absolutely love: we discovered the stroller photo on June 17! You might recall that I wrote a post last Thursday about Luke’s new Instagram profile photo — which originally appeared on his grid on June 17, 2024. Why is that date special? Because Nicola’s current profile photo also comes from a grid post she shared on June 17, 2024. How incredible is that synchronicity?! Never — and I mean never — ignore patterns like this. They are not coincidences. There is meaning here, especially for Luke and Nicola. I just know it. 💙��

Here's my blog post about June 17 💙💙

Zooming into the photo reveals why we call this the Stroller Photo. A few elements to note:

Location: This was taken in Dún Laoghaire, Dublin.

Louisa Harland was tagged in the image, and I believe that’s her on the right side of Nicola, partially hidden by Alice. I could be wrong; she could be the person taking the photo. The depth perception in this image is tricky (likely due to distance and zoom), which makes the man bending over and the woman on the far right holding a phone appear closer than they are. It's very possible they aren’t part of Nicola and Louisa’s group. As for the woman to Nicola’s left — her gaze seems directed at the phone-holder, but again, hard to say. Nicola is looking toward Louisa. You don’t have to agree with me.

Alice is the woman in the green swimsuit. Other blogs have identified who she is relative to the group (primarily Mairead & Louisa) — I recommend visiting those blogs for details. They’ve done the work and deserve the credit.

The photo (bottom-right) is from Alice’s IG account and suggests this photo was taken on March 18. Personally, I’m not planting a flag in the sand here, but Alice’s post compellingly supports that date.

Jake was busy with his play in Sheffield on March 18, which fits with him not being in the photo. Works for me!

There’s also been some speculation that this setting was too public for Luke to have been present. I’m open to that theory, too.

And then there’s the photo directly above. The pink outline shows where an edit was made: before (or as) Mairead posted the image, she selected an edit tool and created a black blob directly over the stroller — effectively masking the baby inside. The blob even overlaps a portion of Nicola’s hair. To me, this wasn’t accidental. It was a purposeful choice to hide what was there.

I’ve seen some say the child might belong to Louisa, or perhaps Nicola’s sister Clodagh (who wasn't even present in this image). As I’ve said multiple times: take in what you find here — and elsewhere — and draw your own conclusions. That said, I’ll add this: if the photo was taken on March 18, then BN would have been around 1.5 months old. At that age, a stroller is usually in the cot position, facing the parent — in this case, Nicola. Louisa and Clodagh’s children, by contrast, are older and would face forward in a seated position. If this was their child, a black blob to mask the stroller’s contents wouldn’t have been necessary because the contents wouldn't have been facing Nicola.

So that’s what I’ve got for you.

A photo found ten days late. A synchronicity tied to June 17. A black blob where a baby might be. Whether you call it a breadcrumb, a quiet reveal, Chekhov's Smoking Gun, or heck... even a McGuffin, one thing is clear: this story isn’t over — and neither is the truth waiting beneath the surface.

Aaniin Xxx

[gay-dorito-dust]

Hello! I want to say I love your fics- I've been here for a while- I followed you because of your gravity falls fic and now you write for DC- I love your writing so much ❤️ I just love it how you write for most fandoms I'm in 🥹

I haven't really had the guts to send you an ask or anything- this is my first 🥹

But if you are open to it,

May I request the Batboys + Bruce Reacting to Reader being insecure because of having a plushie they had since birth, it has been with them since childhood and hasn't left their side ever since they were a child, it was old dirty and they didn't like washing it because it was sentimental to them-

I have one exactly like It and I'm a bit insecure about it- I never really dated before because I think people will think it as a childish thing-

My friends told me it's fine and normal and it's human but it's still an insecurity-

I like to blab a lot my bad- I love your works again! Please keep writing ❤️ it's okay if you can't write this too no pressure! Sending love!! ❤️❤️❤️

sweetheart, there is nothing wrong with having a childhood plush. you have your reasons for having them and that is all that should matter. It shouldn't be something you're insecure about just becuase of how other people might interpret it, that's their problem, not yours to figure out. you've got a childhood toy, so what? i have one if i looked deep enough in my house for it and it has been with me since i could remember, so don't ever feel ashamed of having something that means so much to you on a level some narrow minded people won't understand.

It's special to you, holds alot of value to you and your friends are correct, it's perfectly normal human thing to have, i promise you it's nothing to be insecure over at all and it's not childish in the slightest. And if anyone says anything, i'll fight them for you!

Jason isn't one to judge himself as he still had that paperback of the first book he had nicked when he was under Bruce's tutilage, sitting on the bookshelf amongst the other books that he has lying in wait to be read again, yet also perfectly showing the framed familiar photo of his younger self and Bruce.

So Jason knows a thing or two about having things that have sentimental values that you just can't be apart from, even if the memories connecting to that thing aren't exactly ones that he wants to ever go back, instead keeping them in memorium of the boy he used to be and knowing that he'd hate the man he had to become against his will.

Jason could never hold it against you for possessing something that helps you and means so much to you. So seeing you look so small as he sees the plushy on your bed made his heart ache, thinking that he had proven himself as someone who would welcome every part of you, much like you have welcomed every part of him.

'Oh sweetheart.' Jason says softly as he holds your face, caressing your cheeks as he gently tilts your head up from looking at the floor and look into his eyes. 'Don't ever be ashamed of having something linked to your childhood, i don't ever want you to feel as if it's something to be ashamed of, not with me as that's not how i want our relationship to be.' He adds as he kisses your forehead, casting away those negative thoughts as far away from you as he can.

'it's not throwing you off?' you asked, looking at him for any lies you may find that he tried to hide, only to find none as he laughs and brings you in close to his chest, rubbing his hands up and down your back.

'Absolutely not.' Jason replied without hesitation. 'i'm staying here for the long wrong sweetheart so i hope your plush is okay with another person to share a bed with.' He adds as he looks over at the plush that flops onto the bed, almost as if it was giving Jason it's consent and approval for him to take care of you now.

Dick will find it sweet that you've got such a plush, he doesn't care about it's condition and would never make it an issue either, it's not his style.

He would want to know how ans when you got it and why it -above the other plushies you might've gotten in your childhood- was your most precious possesion. He'd love to listen to your stories and love the plushy as much as you did, for he didn't see it as just a plushy he only saw it as an extension of you, and he would treat the plushy with the respect it deserved for keeping you grounded and calm for all this time.

Yet when he saw how much you wanted to seemingly leave the second he saw your plush propped up on your desk, greeting you both with it's button eyes and stitched smile that you've been accostomed to for a long time, Dick can't help but feel as though he had done something wrong or didn't do enough to prove that he didn't care about the fact that you had a plush.

'who's this cutie?' He'd ask, wanting to ease you up again, 'they're not my replacement are they?' he adds jokingly as you began to find humour in the idea that Dick was comparing himself to the worn plush you've had since you were little.

'no, they're my childhood toy, hope that's not weird or embrassing.' you tell him.

Dick moves towards your plush and gently grabs their paw as though greeting it as though it was a sentient thing. 'it's actually an honour to see the plush that has kept you protected and secure for a long time, keeping you grounded and providing you a sense of calm when things get too much.' Dick then lets go of it's paw ans looks at you with a warm smile and even warmer gaze. 'it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's perfectly normal and shouldn't have to be hidden to make others comfortable at your own expense.' He finishes as he makes his way towards you and hold your hands in his.

'you're not freaked out? or disgusted?' you asked, still not certain of the whole thing.

'no. my opinion shouldn't matter becuase it doesn't, only yours and if having a childhood plush helps you, then that's all that matters.' Dick tells you as he kisses the tip of your nose.

Damian is going to ask questions but they are purely for learning purposes only.

He would never ever insult you for the fact that you carry something ever since you could speak your first words, so when he is satisfied with the awnsers given to him, Damian finds it honourable that you have something that keeps you grounded and reminds you of home.

He does his research on the pychology behind having a plushy, followed up by the benifits of having one are in order to fully understand why some people would keep their childhood stuffed toys, and making sure that Ace and Titus stay away from your plush at all times in case they mistake it as something they can play with.

He might make a face when he first sees it but it's mainly one of curiosity, tilting his head to the side as he tries to figure out the conection between you and this worn out but heavily loved plush, wheras you were regretting putting it away and out of sight and were about to when Damian keeps you from doing so by putting his hand on yours. 'why are you trying to hide it?' he would ask.

'It's weird of an adult to have an toy from their childhood, it's not soemthing that i should have anyways.' you tell him, pulling your hand from his grip as the empty feeling within you seemed to only worsen as your throat tightned with emotion that you'd let out when you were alone.

Damian furrows his brows as he looks at you and realises that his reaction was taken a you thinking he believes your weird for having a plush, and he was quick to correct this misunderstanding by holding your hand, intertwining your fingers together to prevent you from running away. 'There are research behind this sort of thing, you shouldn't feel regret or shame for having something that helps you and offers support with it's weighed attributes for a more grounding affect.' He begins as he tugs you to his side as he sits you both down on the bed, his thumbs caressing the back of your hand in silence reassurance.

'If anyone choses to raise their voice agaisnt you. Let me know and i shall have them delt with swiftly, for no one should ever spout words of venom at you, not for something that makes you feel safe and secure and in such cases allow me to be another source of reassurance and safety.' Damian continues in the way he knows how, defending your honour by using the methods he was raised to use to his advantage against those who claim it's childish.

For to him they were simply too childish if they couldn't understand themselves.

Bruce will find the plush cute as well, fully understanding the whole sentimentality that comes with having something from a young age, so he's not going to hold it agaisnt you for having a plush as an adult.

He knows the benifits of having a childhood plush and how it can reduce stress and or anxiety and bring a sense of comfort for you that he might not be able to give himself. He recagnises your childhoos plush as a source of calm in your hectic life, something that brings you back to better memories and moments that are attached to the plushy you kept.

So when he does first see the plush he doesn't show much of a reaction, acting like it's the most normal thing he's ever come across in his life, but he could see the hunch in your shoulders and the clench in your jaw that his lack of a reaction was only making your intenal thoughts even worse then before.

'If you think i'm going to shame you for having a keepsake from your childhood, then i haven't done enough on my part to do what your plush has been doing for twice as long.' He says as he looks at the plush and could easily envision you cudiling it agaisnt your chest, easily envison how it brought you down from the most stressful moments of your life thus far. 'You shouldn't have to stress about what i think about it for it doesn't matter, there's psychology and science that backs up the reason for keeping ahold of something from your past, so please don't think i'm against it when i'm actually all for it.' He adds with a small smile.

'you're not wierded out or find it silly?' you asked, still a little unsure of his acceptance of your childhood plush, thinking it to be too good to be true.

Bruce brings you into his side, kissing your temple once, twice as he squeezes your side. 'of course not, this is your anchor, your friend who has been a constant in your ever changing life, something you can always rely on to never change when it seems like eveything is moving at a faster pace for you.' He kisses your temple a third time, pratically cuddiling you to his chest now as he felt you burry into his chest.

'I would never ask you to give up your comfort for me, to put you to in a constant state of discomfort. So please don't feel as though you have to change yourself to appease others for no one is ever appeased, so you're best to staying true to yourself against it all.' Bruce finishes as the plush on your bed seemingly watched you both, happy that you had found someone that was more then accepting of you and everything you come with.

[thunder-nugs]

This is such an interesting phenomena that relates biology and geometry, and is the reason for a gnarly adaptation found in owls! When most animals hear a sound, they are able to determine the general direction of its origin with some degree of accuracy, but the distance is harder to guess. This is due to the way brains interpret sound! Facing a sound with your ears at the same level will make it so that there is only a line connecting the sound and how it is heard by you. Tilting your head when you hear a sound causes the ears to hear the sound slightly differently, and allows you to calculate where the sound is coming from. This tilt makes the line into a triangle, and thus gives you the ability to triangulate its location.

How does this relate to owls? They have asymmetrical ears!! Owls are expert hunters a night, and rely heavily upon their hearing to locate prey in the dark. And since having your ears at different levels allows animals to more accurately pinpoint the locations of sounds, they evolved to have their ears at different heights, leaving their eyes at the same level, which both increases their hearing AND sight accuracy!!!

I love animals!

[ao3commentoftheday]

i'm sort of struggling dealing with jealousy in my fandom.

there is a character i'm very fond of in the source material. we don't know a lot about them, they never directly appear in the story and we only have a handful of information that we know is canon for sure. so that means a lot about this character is left up to audience interpretation, down to something as surface-level as their physical appearance. it's already a very niche fandom, and i write and draw for this character.

for about three years, i have been subject to vagueposting by some big name fans who are very invested in discussing canon lore. they have never mentioned me by name, and in their vagueposts they act as though there are multiple artists or authors who portray this version of the character the way i do... when i know it's just me. i have never spoken to them directly. i wish them no ill will. but they have said some truly hurtful, nasty things about my version of this character behind my back without mentioning me by name.

this is where the jealousy comes in. i never got a huge amount of attention when i started writing and drawing art for this fandom, but i suspect that because in these bnfs' vagueposting people know they're talking about me specifically, they stay away from my work because these bnfs talk about how my interpretation is bad. this is, to be fair, kind of far-fetched.

really, what makes me upset is that i was never an artist or writer who got a lot of attention in the first place when these bnfs have been into this source material for a few years more than i have, and have a significantly larger following and circle of friends than i do. yet they choose to go after me and say some truly rude things about my characterization work behind my back when they're also making things up... just that their work is more popular.

i have blocked and muted these people, and continue to do so when i run into others who speak rudely of me behind my back. when i write fic, i link to my social medias (not ko-fi. i understand ao3's policies about that) to my social media page - call it shallow, but i really do want to spend more time with other people and chat with other fans about my interpretation. but i'm not sure what more i can do to healthily manage my jealousy and upset at these people for saying rude things behind my back. part of me wants to confront them about it, but i'm a very short-tempered person and i don't want to end up making things worse.

I'm so sorry anon *hugs* This situation sucks, and I wish you weren't in it.

From everything you've written here, it doesn't sound like you're experiencing jealousy? Like, everything you're describing is hurt feelings due to people maligning your work and your character.

The part that you might be interpreting as jealousy, I'm reading as loneliness or feelings of isolation in your fandom. You want to have people to talk to and share ideas with. That's totally understandable, and it's actually something that most of us want too.

I'm glad that you've already blocked and muted those folks. That was 100% a smart move to make. Keep that kind of negative energy as far away as possible, and you're much more likely to find peace.

When it comes to finding people to talk with, you might have to take a more active role. Sharing your social media is one step, but it relies on the other person reaching out in order for that to be successful. You might have better luck if you're the one who sends the first message.

I know that can feel intimidating, especially in a space where you know people are talking shit about you. Try starting with just one person. If someone leaves a like on your artwork or a kudos/comment on your fic, try sending them an ask or replying to their comment with a question for them to respond to. By starting with someone who has already given you a positive response, you might have less to worry about?

There isn't really anything you can do to stop mean people from being mean to you. Keep doing what you're doing on that front, and focus your energy on finding people who are actually nice. I hope you find them ❤️

[twilightofthesandwiches]

…Actually, I think Deltarune Chapter 4 answered a very important question mark in my understanding of how Dark Worlds work.

So from the way Darkners in Chapters 1-3 talk about their past, it mostly seemed like Dark Worlds operate on what I labeled as ‘Neverending Story Logic’. Dark Worlds only come into existence when the Dark Fountains are opened, but they are created with histories and memories as if they always existed.

That seems consistent with how most Darkners operate and think. Since they always acknowledge the Dark Fountain created the world they live in, but they also remember a past that clearly stretches long before it was opened. But... there is one problem... the main wrinkle in this interpretation has always been what happens when the Dark Worlds interact with one another... before one of them was even created. Like Jevil’s knowledge of Queen

And Spamton’s connection to Tenna and Mike.

These mentions happen before the Cyber World and TV World Dark Fountains have opened. These people aren’t even supposed to exist yet, right? And if you say they did exist on some level of reality… that would create its own set of questions, considering how much the Dark Worlds we’ve seen have been affected by the minds of the Lightners who venture into them. How could Queen exist before Noelle and Berdly got into the library considering she’s very much a representation of Noelle’s mommy issues?

The explanation I went with until now is that Darkners can have memories based on interactions with other objects from outside their Dark Worlds and remember these objects as Darkners, but these memories are not as… defined. People in Card Castle remember that there was a Queen because of past contact between the Serial Number Q5U4EX7YY2E9N Laptop with objects from the Abandoned Classroom, but most of the details about her were undefined and hazy. Until Queen was actually created by Cyber World’s Dark Fountain, at which point her goofy and wonderful personality was retconned into the past and memories of everyone in Card Castle as well.

Obviously that theory wasn’t perfect either (Spamton’s beef with who we now know is Tenna seemed rather specific to be just a vague blank-space to-be-filled with the TV Darkner’s true personality later), but that’s the best way I could make sense of the way Dark Worlds worked at the time.

Now, Chapter 4 gave me the puzzle piece I’ve been missing, because every Dark World we’ve seen has been part of the Prophecy…

… there seems to be an element of predestination involved.

We see a very clear small example of this with the different Dark Sanctuaries. The Darkners that populate Susie’s Second Sanctuary…

First appear petrified in the First Sanctuary.

Petrified because they’re from a different Dark World and don’t ‘belong’ in the First Sanctuary… Even though the World they are ‘from’ doesn’t even exist yet. Because Susie’s creation of the Second Sanctuary was preordained by the Prophecy. Just like the creation of every other Dark World we've seen. So preordained that when the Darkners that would come to populate it were brought to life by the first Fountain, the metaphysical laws of the universe already knew they belonged in another, future Dark World and they ended up petrified.

A... sorta similar thing is happening with the memories of every Darkner who has interacted with a Darkner from a different World. When the Card Castle Dark World was created, Cyber World’s Dark Fountain has not yet been opened and Queen was still an inanimate laptop. But since Cyber World is destined to be created in the Prophecy, King and Jevil and anyone else who has interacted with Queen through Kris’ games already had their memories of Queen, exactly the way she would come to be created that night.

Queen was formed from the Computer Room’s Dark Fountain and the minds of Noelle and Berdly once they got stuck in there… but these events were so predestinated to happen that Card Castle’s Dark Fountain could just… create everyone’s memories of Queen before she was truly ‘real’.

Same thing with Tenna’s and Spamton’s whole thing. Tenna was just an inanimate TV when Cyber World’s Dark Fountain was still flowing, but Kris creating TV World was already preordained by fate. So Tenna’s part of Spamton’s backstory was written into everyone’s memories as if Tenna had always existed too.

It’s a pretty trippy thing to think about, but then so is pretty much everything about the Dark Worlds…

[the-jason-todd-murder-weapon]

details I noticed after rewatching episode five of tadc

0:40 disappearing man watches the gang come back from an adventure

caine is getting darker and darker with his adventure ideas- possibly slowly beginning to downwards spiral because none of the circus members like his adventures (I imagine because he literally cannot perceive what they want because well. he isn't human)

jax is genuinely excited gangle plays along as an "extremist" (although this could be argued that he was just excited to see her blow up)

Bubbles is slowly getting weirder and weirder, to the point even caine is weirded out

It's implied jax also watches anime (he knows the genre they're in based off the first few seconds, and says that it's the worst kind of anime)

jax seems genuinely upset at gangle either 1. hanging out primarily with zooble or (the one I'm personally more inclined to) that she literally can't keep her comedy mask on

It's implied jax tried reaching out to ragatha about how the circus was affecting him, but ended up thinking she was being fake because she was constantly nice and basically refused to show that she was also affected

11:14 we see disappearing man's door, implying that he is, infact, not an npc like the characters seem to think. a second after we see an abstracted character's door with jax running to it, then stopping and just. staring for a moment instead of trying to open the door (which, in my own interpretation, because of the abstraction eyes all around, makes me think jax might've watched his friend abstract, and then possibly tried to talk to ragatha about it but she wouldn't reach to him with any "real" emotion, so he saw her as fake and trying to take advantage of him)

zooble pauses when she hears kinger request something with corn in it- which, while possible that it's just not a real drink, makes me think she knew jax was afraid of corn

Jax doesn't know what the vote is. he votes no because pomni votes no, he has no reason to think it's anything to do with him aside from the fact that he wasn't included in talking about it

jax starts genuinely spiraling about the maid dress, in a way that reminds me almost of dysphoria (ftm jax headcanon go brr)

I think most people already assumed this, but zooble is the one to place the corn

ragatha has genuine problems with pomni being friends with jax, to the point she's almost spiraling, I assume because she's slowly realizing the people pleaser way that worked in real life is causing everybody in the circus to only like her on the surface level, but not want to hang out with her

[eklmrlos]

i’m honestly blushing?? 😭 i had no idea someone would look at my silly apple-and-teacup doodles and write something so thoughtful and insightful. it’s incredibly meaningful to hear you look at my work and respond to it on this level, not just as art, but as something worth analyzing, interpreting, feeling through. thank you for taking the time to look at it that deeply. i feel very seen and very grateful 💔 this is the kind of thing that makes me want to go draw ten more panels right now

the apple sketch

[ask-the-rag-dolly]

this is going to be long . but at this point what else do you expect from me .

i've always had a Feeling that ragatha might've gone through abuse since the pilot , and the feeling got stronger with each new episode . her lines employed a lot of passive voice ; which speaks to how astronomically Low her self-esteem is without actually saying it . on top of that , her behavior blared those alarms for me . constantly blaming herself ? people-pleasing ? emotional repression ? they're hallmarks of the fawn response . you know ... one of the four f's of Trauma Responses .

now knowing that aspect of her backstory it ... Sadly makes sense . did i see it coming ? yes . do i still find it sad how it puts so much of her behavior into perspective ? also yeah .

just taking notes from her present behavior and the tiny hints given of her home life , i imagine she grew up in an overly-controlling , repressive environment deprived of love and affection . the perfect incubation chamber for one , fully fucked-up child , basically . it's no wonder that ragatha's desperate for companionship and validation — because it's something that was never given to her all her life . there's a pit where a mother's love should've filled .

with no mention of her father or any other relative , it paints ... a very bleak and isolating picture . like , no wonder she misses her horses , i think the animals were the Only thing that brought her joy in that farm . either her dad is absent OR if we consider how traditionally feminine ragatha is ( being demure , modest and passive ) , it could be a conservative household that's patriarchal ... or maybe she's a child of divorce . idk which one i prefer lol .

either way , she Might've had ... Zero Support ! i can't believe we've gotten to a point that i could confidently say i was a lot Nicer to ragatha than gooseworx was . like the implications here are Not pretty . it could explain why she's desperately grasping for Any strand of companionship she could have in the circus .

obviously , fawning comes from appeasing to The Threat , and you can make an argument that by appeasing to a non-existent threat in the circus , she thinks she's avoiding The Scenario™ .

but something is telling me that she was taught all her life that love is to be Earned . that you have to Prove that you are worthy of being Loved . and of course , not being able to meet her mother's impossible expectations , she didn't really ... get it . and now being in an environment where there's people that actually Cares for her , she's Grasping . she's keeping them Pleased because It's All She Has . seeking warmth in a dwindling fire kind of thing .

BUT THAT'S JUST MY INTERPRETATION . i'm not really completely with it but ! it's what i came up with . whatever interpretation you can come up with , it adds a level of tragedy into ragatha's increasing distance from the others . her pleasing works for Avoiding Conflict , not for Creating A Deep Connection . which is why i like that one line where gangle thanks ragatha for teaching her softball . ragatha sharing her interest instead of giving empty praise made them bond , yay !

so yeah ragatha needs to be spoiled and pampered lovingly this post is already long enough i'm going to drink water

[starleska]

go.d. falling asleep around tenna when its just the two of you. hes sitting with you doing something- idk maybe that video game he had the kids play?? and hes play testing a level or w/e with you and your character jsut. gradually stops. hes p1 so its not that big a deal- or maybe the conversation just lulls to a stop, but when he looks over at you youre just curled up against his leg or his side and he just gets backhanded with affection because hes only ever been Witness to this happening with kris and asriel. he (thankfully) doesnt have to get up to dim the lights, and the soft glow of the tv in front of you both just makes you look even more stunning and jsut. him silently working while you're crashed up against his leg. quiet moments between the two of you where he doesnt have to preform for anyone. thanks for coming to my ted talk gsdsjgkmdss

Maple i think you exclusively come into my inbox just to give us feels, oh my gosh 😭💖💖 this is such a lovely and soft interpretation of Tenna and it's one i TOTALLY agree with!!! the poor guy has such severe abandonment issues that he's almost physically incapable of shedding the showman persona, and even in moments of intimacy, it's so hard for him to be vulnerable 🥺🥺🥺 that thing you said about him only ever witnessing affection but never experiencing it himself...just punch me in the face why don't you 😭😭😭😭😭

[unsolicited-opinions]

Identifying and Coping with Cults

Most people seem to believe cults are about religion, robes, and/or UFOs, but cults aren't about theology or cosmology - they're about mental, social, emotional control. A cult doesn't need a compound, robes, or cosmology - just a belief so total and consuming that it swallows the rest of your identity.

We tend to think that cults draw other people.

Dumb people.

Weak-minded people.

People who aren't as smart or educated or skeptical as we are.

The truth is that cults don't rely on stupidity, they rely on conviction and the need to belong.

Conviction makes people feel important, righteous, elite, and part of something bigger than themselves.

That kind of thinking isn't rare. It's everywhere.

Features of All Cults

The Leader/Doctrine Is Infallible

It doesn't have to be a person. It can be an ideology, a set of principles, or a revolutionary narrative. What matters is that it's never wrong. Any mistake, contradiction, or moral failing is either denied, excused, or reframed as proof of how right the group is.

Outsiders Are Enemies

There are no legitimate opponents, only evil ones. If you're not with us, you're corrupt. The world is divided into us (good, awakened) and them (bad, brainwashed, oppressive). The possibility of good-faith disagreement is off the table.

Doubt = Betrayal

Skepticism isn't healthy, it's treason. Asking questions means you've already failed a loyalty test. You either accept the whole package or you're a danger to the group.

The Cause Justifies Everything

Because the group is always right, its behavior is always justified. Harassment, threats, violence, lying, and dehumanization are all fair game if they serve the mission.

Truth Is Monopolized

They have The Truth. Everyone else is misled or malicious. Any source that contradicts the group is propaganda. Any evidence that complicates the narrative is ignored or dismissed.

Purity Is Mandatory

You don't get to agree with parts and question others. There is no cafeteria plan. You believe it all, or you're compromised.

There Is No Exit Without Punishment

Try leaving. Try expressing doubt. You will be humiliated, discredited, and demonized. The group will claim you were never a real believer anyway.

These Features in Famous Cults

Jonestown (People's Temple - Jim Jones)

A political-religious movement that ended in the mass murder-suicide of over 900 people in Guyana in 1978.

Infallible Leader - Jim Jones was treated as a prophet and god-like figure.

Outsiders = Enemies - The US government and defectors were seen as existential threats.

Doubt = Betrayal - Defectors were labeled traitors, dissent was suppressed.

Cause Justifies Everything - Abuse, mind control, and ultimately mass death were rationalized.

Truth Is Monopolized - Only Jones' interpretation of the world was accepted.

Purity Is Mandatory - Members were forced to adopt strict ideological conformity.

No Exit Without Punishment - Defectors were hunted, threatened, or killed.

Heaven's Gate (Marshall Applewhite & Bonnie Nettles)

A UFO-doomsday cult whose members believed they would ascend to a spaceship by shedding their bodies. Ended in 39 suicides in 1997.

Infallible Leader - Applewhite was seen as the only conduit to salvation.

Outsiders = Enemies - Non-believers were seen as "Luciferians" and corrupt.

Doubt = Betrayal - Questioning the teachings endangered the "exit plan."

Cause Justifies Everything - Suicide was framed as liberation from Earth.

Truth Is Monopolized - All external sources were rejected and only the leaders had access to "The Next Level."

Purity Is Mandatory - Strict celibacy, dress codes, and detachment from the world were enforced.

No Exit Without Punishment - Psychological control and isolation made leaving nearly impossible.

Scientology (L. Ron Hubbard / David Miscavige)

A pseudo-religious organization founded by a science fiction writer, known for aggressive legal tactics, secrecy, and abuse allegations.

Infallible Leader - Hubbard's writings are treated as scripture and Miscavige is treated as his anointed executor.

Outsiders = Enemies - "Suppressive persons" are vilified, critics are targets.

Doubt = Betrayal - Internal questioning is punished with auditing, isolation, or expulsion.

Cause Justifies Everything - Surveillance, harassment, and lawsuits justified to protect the church.

Truth Is Monopolized - Members are discouraged from consuming outside media or criticism.

Purity Is Mandatory - Advancement requires complete adherence to doctrine and lifestyle.

No Exit Without Punishment - Defectors face smear campaigns, disconnection from family, and threats.

NXIVM (Keith Raniere)

A self-help organization that devolved into a coercive sex cult with branding, blackmail, and criminal convictions.

Infallible Leader - Raniere was marketed as a genius and moral authority.

Outsiders = Enemies - Critics were dismissed or targeted with lawsuits.

Doubt = Betrayal - Members were pressured to ignore red flags or risk expulsion.

Cause Justifies Everything - Abuse and manipulation were reframed as empowerment.

Truth Is Monopolized - Raniere's teachings overrode conventional ethics or science.

Purity Is Mandatory - Members were ranked and groomed for obedience.

No Exit Without Punishment - Those who left were harassed, blackmailed, and/or publicly discredited.

The same seven features are always there in every cult.

These, of course, are all in the past.

Here in 2025, we have two popular cults which are doing all of us extraordinary amounts of harm.

MAGA

Infallible Leader

Donald Trump isn't just a politician to his followers, he's a symbol. When he lies, it's not a flaw. It's strategy. When he fails, it's sabotage by the deep state. He is the center of the movement's gravity, and his word overrides observable reality. The courts, the media, even physics, meteorology, and basic math are all wrong if they contradict him.

Outsiders = Enemies

The MAGA worldview is binary. You're either a patriot or a traitor. Democrats, immigrants, journalists, academics, scientists, and election officials are all suspect. Ther are no disagreements, there's only war. Opponents aren't wrong, they're evil.

Doubt = Betrayal

MAGA has no tolerance for internal dissent. Most of the Republicans who acknowledged Biden's win were branded as RINOs and purged. The rest got in line and kissed the ring. Asking for evidence about election fraud is seen as disloyal. Even silence can be suspect.

The Cause Justifies Everything

Storming the Capitol? Justified. Threatening election workers? Patriotic. Spreading conspiracy theories? Necessary. There are no rules if the mission is to save America from the leftist cabal.

Truth Is Monopolized

Only certain sources are trusted and even Fox News has often been smacked down for insufficient loyalty. So the cult faithful turn to right-wing echo chambers, YouTube prophets, and meme accounts. Anything mainstream is automatically suspect, but in a world of liars, only the Dear Leader is always telling you the truth.

Purity Is Mandatory

You can't just support tighter borders or lower taxes. You have to accept the whole package: the stolen election, the culture war, the personality worship, the persecution narrative, the attacks on immigrants, the assault on higher education...Moderation or nuance are weakness.

No Exit Without Punishment

Look at Liz Cheney or Mike Pence. Look at anyone who tried to steer the movement or the GOP back toward reality. They didn't just lose support, they were cast out. Once you're disloyal, you're dead to the group.

And on the other end of the horseshoe:

The Western "Pro-Palestinian" Movement

Infallible Doctrine

This movement isn't about support for Palestinian rights (a legitimate cause we should all support). This is a movement which treats anti-Zionism, the belief that Israel must cease to exist, as sacred law.

No amount of evidence, history, or context can challenge the idea that Israel is uniquely evil, that Palestinians are uniquely innocent, and that the only moral position is total condemnation and elimination of the Jewish state.

Outsiders = Enemies

Anyone who supports Israel's right to exist is an enemy. Jewish students are enemies. Palestinian peace advocates who reject Hamas are enemies. You don't need to hold extreme views to be treated as an enemy, you just have to diverge from the orthodoxy.

Doubt = Betrayal

Say you're uncomfortable with chants like "from the river to the sea" or that you believe in both Israeli and Palestinian national self-determination...or say you oppose Hamas' methods and violent suppression of the people of Gaza...?

That's enough to get you labeled a Zionist apologist, a traitor, a colonizer. There's no space for complexity. No room for nuance.

The Cause Justifies Everything

Celebrating the October 7 massacre? "Context."

Ripping down posters of kidnapped civilians? "Resistance."

Harassing Jewish students? "Solidarity."

The cruelty is framed as necessary, desirable, even virtuous.

Truth Is Monopolized

Official sources are dismissed as biased. Only certain accounts (often anonymous, hyper-partisan, and unchecked) are treated as legitimate.

If a Palestinian criticizes Hamas, they're ignored or attacked as a Zionist (ask Hamza Howidy or Ahmed Fouad Alkahatib).

If a Jew defends Israel's right to exist, they're a propagandist. HASBARA!

Purity Is Mandatory

You can't be selectively critical. You can't say "I support human rights but also think Hamas is a terrorist group." That's impure. You must affirm the full narrative or you're compromised. You must chant the slogans, share the posts, and avoid any hint of nuance. If you don't strictly follow the purity guidelines, anything you say on any topic is deemed false.

No Exit Without Punishment

Try saying you no longer support the movement because of extremism and antisemitism. You'll be attacked, disowned, doxxed, called a Zio or other slurs. There's no graceful exit.

Once you're out, you're not just wrong. You're the enemy.

Coping

So what do we do when people we care about fall into cults draped in flags and slogans?

First, understand that logic won't pry them out. Cults aren't built on facts, they're built on identity, emotion, and a deep need to belong. 

If it's someone close to you, your best move is to stay connected without indulging the dogma. Ask questions, not to debate, but to remind them there's a world beyond the script. Don't play their game of moral purity, just show them what it looks like to think freely and still care deeply.

With strangers, it's different.

You owe them less, and it's okay to disengage when the cost is too high. Not every argument is winnable, and not every person wants to come back.

But when you do engage, go for clarity, not conversion. Speak plainly, factually, and with spine. Cults thrive in echo chambers. Every time you speak outside the script, you widen the crack that might let someone else out. 

Not today, maybe. But eventually. That's the long game. 

That's how you fight a cult without joining one.

(This post inspired by tags of @tapdancingmutantboy - thanks!)

Further Information:

Two-hour playlist of excellent videos on cults

Singer, M. T., & Lalich, J. (1995). Cults in our midst: The hidden menace in our everyday lives. San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass.

Hassan, S. (2015). Combating cult mind control: The #1 bestselling guide to protection, rescue, and recovery from destructive cults. Freedom of Mind Press.

[morganmnemonic]

Sure, it's an allegory for escapism. I'm not willing to commit to that as my final assessment of what the story's about, but it's definitely a reasonable lens to view the story through, and even then, saying that it's an allegory for escapism is the start of conversation, not the end of one. What's it trying to say with that allegory?

The labyrinth 1986 is an allegory for escapism. It touches on a person is ultimately in control of their own imagination, and as they grow older, they can't allow fantasy to rule their life, even though properly managed fantasy is a valuable thing to have.

Gregor the overlander is subtextually about escapism, taking the format of a lot of children's fantasy books (A hidden world, and prophesized hero) and playing them to their extreme as a thing that would suck to live through, all while affirming the agency of the child characters who star as the protagonists. On a meta level, it's saying that for children to be the one's going on a quest to save the world, so many adults must have failed them at some point or another, and not every child who exists in reality will find comfort in a world like that.

Paranoia agent is an allegory for escapism. It's about how the comforting lies we tell ourselves can grow out of control and take on a life of their own, potentially causing so much more harm than simply facing the truth would have.

Deltarune is a story at least partially about play, but at this point it could just as easily be about growing up and out of the coping mechanisms you used to need (The idea that the dark worlds are based on games kris and asriel used to play, and the idea that deltarune will end with us having to close the closet dark fountain for good), as it it could be about fantasy being necessary for personal growth (susie making genuine human connections through the dark world, the possibility that the key to changing the prophecy is having a firm conviction that it's even possible to subvert the prophecy) or that it's about how interacting with the world like it's a game cuts you off from connecting to other people (berdly would be oddly relevant for this one).

And the real struggle is finding an interpretation that weaves in nicely with the other themes that have been creeping up into deltarune (Hurting people you care about on accident, whether or not your choices matter, feelings of abandonment, the difference between being nice and being kind

jackenstein being the tutorial for the titan fight because play/pretend can help prepare you for actual hard/difficult times… and jackenstein is a Halloween decoration… the holiday entirely based on playing with scary/uncomforting things… runs into a wall and leaves a me shaped impression

[everythingisamazing]

Listen, this could mean nothing, but I do wonder if it’s really a coincidence that the concept of Yin and Yang was used in relation to Jayvik — especially combined with Harry Lloyd’s old comment about how their relationship is needed to keep society together.

It just sticks out to me because I don’t think either idea — not the cosmic symbolism, not the structural importance — is something you’d come up with solely from what’s in the show. Yes, there is a timeline where Piltover is destroyed, but there’s also one where it isn’t. So both of those statements feel like they’re reaching beyond the present plot — like they’re hinting at a greater, long-term significance to Jayce and Viktor’s dynamic. And if that’s the case, I think we all moved on from that way too quickly. Because what do you mean, the relationship of those two nerds in their thirties is the embodiment of the polar yet complementary cosmic principle?? What do you mean they represent light and dark, logic and intuition, feminine and masculine, movement and stillness, warmth and detachment, chaos and order — and somehow it only works because they do it together? I don’t know much about League lore, but I do know there are literal gods in this universe. So choosing to associate Jayce and Viktor — two guys who just really loved doing science together — with that level of universal importance is kind of wild.

And it’s even weirder because usually it’s the fandom that leans into the grand, fantastical interpretations. Comparing them to Yin and Yang adds a symbolic weight to their bond that’s not even necessary to explain the events of the finale. If anything, it elevates it far beyond what any fanfiction I have seen has tried to do - implying that their “fusion” is more than just personal — it’s structural. It’s symbolic of opposite forces becoming inseparable.

But maybe it’s nothing. Maybe it’s just poetic language. Maybe it was just a throwaway thought — a coincidence that both Harry Lloyd and whoever wrote that little exhibition blurb happened to share. Still. Just some food for thought, I guess.

[lynxgriffin]

While I know there's got to be something going on with the save slots, I don't know that that's something that the Fun Gang would be able to grasp onto from the prophecy. Like, sacrifice yourself so that a slightly alternate version of you gets saved? That might be a bit outside the range of what they're conceiving of right now.

Yeah, we honestly aren't even sure if the acronyms like LV and LOVE and all that even apply between Undertale and Deltarune. There's been no mention of them as such, anyway! Susie is definitely interpreting it as romantic love rather than, say, level of violence. But we'll have to see if that gets expanded upon more!

I think I'd have to go back and see what Biscia said there, since that might be a bit of a misremembering? At the very least, the tragedy of Chara and Asriel's deaths is NOT what saved the monster world, it was Frisk's determination and Asriel finally letting go of his grief. Unless you want to count Asriel saying "it took a long time" as the line between that tragedy and Frisk's/our arrival into the world as things being saved.

THAT SAID, I do have this feeling that we're going to wind up in a situation where Susie has to take the soul from Kris, and that will supposedly sacrifice/kill them. But, I also get this feeling that even if that parallels some of what happens between Chara and Asriel in Undertale, things won't play out exactly the same way...

Possibly, but there's still some other questions on how it then acts in other places...seeing the light world version of a place while in the dark world and then vice versa, the glass not working at all in Castle Town, and the glass changing nothing with the prophecy.

Another possibility? I'll admit the wording is a little weird on that, but I can understand folks trying to fit stuff into the rhyming scheme the prophecy seems to have going on. At the very least, it seems "the girl" is at the center of it somehow!