#but there’s no outrage from hybe fandoms about this

[bandzboy]

it’s boggling my mind that instead of putting this drama on a streaming platform or distributing it somewhere they put on app that is powered by nfts and that has a mlm/pyramid scheme type system in it like this company never seizes to amaze me in the worst ways

[irishhorse-blog]

I know that my pov diverge from most Jikookers here but I’m extremely wary about the debunking and the video being fake. For me, for now and until JK or Hybe say something (which they may not even do) I assume it’s real and it’s outrageous because someone must have been stalking him constantly. I don’t understand the drama some ppl are creating though because it doesn’t look like a romantic moment on the video, could totally be a friend. Anyway, I have my doubts about the Chinese and Korean fanbases because I’ve seen it happen many times before: to get rid of a leak Army say it’s fake even if it’s not because sometimes it’s the only way to go through the the storm and make fans move on to something else. I remember damn well the first time Jikook arch picture was making the rounds a few years ago for example. I knew it was legit but we were told to say it was fake and from cosplayers so I participated in the narrative so we could remove it from social media as much as possible. And most ppl wouldn’t believe it was real anyway so it worked and it became the official statement within the fandom. Personally I won’t let the fanbases dictate my judgement and my gut feeling, I’d rather listen to the members and official statement from the company. But I understand why bloggers are extremely careful about what they say and it’s not an easy position. All of this doesn’t affect my perception of Jikook at the end of the day so the outrage for me relies in the violation of privacy which has been increasing regarding a few members especially Jk.

The original poster who put the video up on Weibo has changed his story three times about where it was taken. First it was in JK's apartment, then in hers, then at a hotel. Then he said he didn't take it, but someone else did. Then the actor in the video came forward and said that these were scenes he was acting in and that it was never Jungkook. The original poster who put up the video has gone silent and his account, which was created exclusively to put up this vid, has no further posts.

I believe K-Army and the Chinese Army, because they're (a) closer to the source; (b) able to read the posts in the original language; and (c) more in the know about fandom culture in their respective nations.

The videos are fake. Nothing points toward them being true. I think it's safe to say that you won't be hearing anything from Hybe or JK, because the fakes are obvious and don't need to be addressed.

I think the heart arch photo was different, because it was VERY clear that those people were Jimin and JK, and again there was silence from the principals, but it was also a much smaller stir than this video has become.

I agree with you, though, that if it IS real (and I firmly believe it isn't), then there was an egregious violation of privacy, and that needs to be addressed. It bothers me that more fans are worried about JK maybe dating and maybe having a baby on the way than they are that someone has claimed to be able to get video from inside his home. Also, tell me how that would have happened - there's no logic to that claim at all. But if was somehow possible, that would be more worthy of outcry than any personal details ever would.

I think some people in this fandom need to get their priorities straight.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

BPP do you have a view on Taehyung saying he recorded a song in Jungkook's house? Tkkrs are using it as proof jikook isn't real.

***

I haven't actually seen Tae say this yet, but I've seen other people talk about it. My takeaway from that tidbit is that I suppose this means in addition to a karaoke bar, Jungkook has built a recording studio in his apartment, additional to the studio he has at HYBE. Which honestly sounds like JK looool. Moments like this make me love that guy a teeny bit more. He's really all about infusing his environment with music, sound equipment, and mood lighting.

Good for him, good for him.

Taehyung recording at JK's apartment sounds very on brand for taekook too. I wonder which song he worked on there and whether or not it'll be actually good. We'll find out soon hopefully.

As to taekookers weaponizing this against jikookers, and jikookers feeling either blindsided, outraged, or otherwise offended....

*

I don't know how many times I can say this tbh, but I frankly don't relate. I don't see taekook or Tae's mentions of Jungkook, the way it seems a lot of jokers do. I'm not even trying to be different lmao, it simply doesn't affect me the same way and I can't force outrage when I feel none. I genuinely like hearing about taekook's interactions.

Taekookers are borderline psychotic and quite moronic as a bonus, but that's also true of many other parts of the BTS fandom that I'm able to treat the same way, as well as wider k-pop fandom. Taekookers' views of jikook are irrelevant to me, what I think of jikook, and my overall fan experience. The moment they start going after Jimin (which is all they do anyway), then I report several of their accounts, multiple times if I've got time, and because they're so callously abusive, it's not too long before I get an update and the account is restricted etc. Of course because this is k-pop and they're guaranteed to get engagement, they never really leave. Extend the same logic to akgaes and their diet versions, all of whom form a pretty resilient symbiotic relationship with other abusive segments of fandom.

This means nothing for taekook who continue to have a close and cordial relationship, and certainly not for jikook who, we have established, are always jikooking.

[dearweirdme]

https://www.tumblr.com/dearweirdme/744229316524638208/httpswwwtumblrcomdearweirdme7441242442675322?source=share

I know you're a relatively new fan, Rain so this isn't aimed at you or anyone who wasn't here then or took a different stance than the one I'm calling out (including OP if it applies) but I wonder where all these voices where when we were calling for a boycott when Bang decided he was going to piss all over BTS work with the UN and take BTS to Saudi Arabia to help participate in the whitewashing of crimes there, especially those towards Yemeni people who BTS were campaigning for one minute and dancing for the benefit of princes and politicians committing atrocities against them the next.

Where have y'all been since then? What's keeping y'all from talking about and calling out that, even now?

If we're going to do this then can we at least expand the moral outrage to everywhere that it applies? Because the decision over Saudi would have been the prime time to cut the monsters head off before it got too greedy and gained too much power but it was near impossible to have our voices heard back then without facing vitriol, doxxing and abuse.

I really hope this boycott works, I do, although I fear it's too little too late at this point because this fandom in general already sent Bang PD a big fat message that anything goes when they shut down protest over Saudi Arabia.

HYBE doesn't give a flying fuck about our opinion because they know they don't have to. I don't judge anyone who feels like the machine is too big at this point or that protests and boycotts won't land where they should and hurt the people they should because its ARMY who have already long laid the foundation for that kind of perspective and not only built the sandpit for men like Bang PD but guarded the gates for him to play in it. Now I see a lot of blame shifting towards newer fans who came into this shit already jaded and knowing what kind of company they were dealing with and at a time when that company has already grown way out of control because fans who had a better chance of forcing a difference before HYBE got to big for their boots didn't want to act.

So if you're a fan reading this or responding to these asks who was in the fandom back then and weren't calling for the same response or are STILL not acknowledging what it meant for BTS to perform in Saudi Arabia then you're a hypocrite and you are in no place to be throwing stones at glass houses now about how people do or don't act. Not until you accept your own responsibility, at least.

And I know y'all hypocrites exist because I've seen some very familiar names on socials calling for action now who were very active in telling the rest of us to shut up and stop complaining then.

And if you were here for the Saudi controversy but are surprised now then I fail to see how because the writing has been clear on the wall since then that Bighit, HYBE and everyone behind the BTS machine were never willing to put their money where their mouth is and the charity work was performative, from the company perspective at least.

If you really got shocked and swerved over Palestine and HYBE getting into bed with the likes of Sc**ter B*aun then you haven't been paying attention to exactly who you've been giving your money to all these years since.

You've already been helping to expand HYBE's greed and influence and whitewash genocide in Saudia Arabia with every album or bit of merch you've bought since. Sc**ter didn't infect HYBE with some sort of 'not giving a shit' disease...birds of a feather flock together. That's how the entertainment industry works in general. If you're looking for clean hands or wholesome billionaires then you're looking in the wrong place. You might as well boycott everything you own and consume that isnt produced by a small or independent business. If you thought that's what you were getting with HYBE even before Sc**ter then...lol.

If y'all want to criticise, try accepting your own complicity and inaction in letting it get this far in the first place.

I personally haven't been buying BTS content for a while now because I don't agree with HYBE's corporate model but if you are one of those people reading this and seething on your Apple Iphone, writing a response from your Apple Mac Computer while sipping a Pepsi and wearing your fave sweatshop sweatshirt that you bought from Amazon who were telling us to sit down and shut up when it came to Saudi Arabia then I hope you are feeling pretty shitty right now because what HYBE has been allowed to grow into and is beating people with an even bigger stick is partly your own fault so who TF are you to criticise anyone from your perch when you had a much clearer perspective of their long game?

Hi anon!

Thanks for this contribution. Army has its own history aside from BTS, and it’s way harder to grasp that in its entirety because it’s not documented clearly (as opposed to BTS).

On this note I’ll leave this discussion for now.

[neo-shitty]

just a rant abt things i have been seeing in the few times i came across armys online. damn. i did not expect that fandom to be as crazy as they were mid-pandemic like??? fighting every rising group’s fandom?? saying the most outrageous shit as if the idols of the other groups aren’t human??? like, i thought that behavior was just a side effect of isolation but no??? we all get to touch grass now, breathe some fresh fucking air and y’all still think like this??????

earlier today, i saw a reel/tiktok about new jeans & bts/blackpink. the first part of the video shows headlines stating: a) “hybe has found its best answer, “the next bts” turns out to be newjeans” and, b) newjeans is now more popular than blackpink and it cuts to hybe labels losing subscribers and the caption “you should’ve picked a better way to promote your rookie girl group, hybe.” (no qualms abt hybe losing subscribers lol #saynotocapitalism) personally, i found nothing wrong with the headlines. these are just mere statements of what we see is already happening. i found the comments alarming bc it’s all ‘don’t mess with army’ and ‘no one can replace bts’ like??? well no one fucking said that? if you actually comprehend what you’re reading before you say shit, you’d know that the ‘the next bts’ was just used as a substitute for ‘the next big thing’ shouldn’t that be a great thing??? 

this crazy obsession of staying on top or being on top has to rest, kids. they were the best of their generation; consistently at the top FOR YEARS and they’ve proved themselves. they’re in a kpop artist hall of fame at this point, along with all the other kpop artists that have helped make kpop as big as it is today. PERIOD. no fucking upcoming/rising kpop artist will be able to take that away from them. why do many of these people think that just bc a new group is getting popular, they’re an instant threat to bts??? all the times they bashed upcoming idols for idolizing bts, covering bts, shouldn’t you be fucking happy that your faves became inspirations to other aspiring ones?????? i feel like if you’re an army and you’re focused on being competitive over this irrelevant shit, i don’t think your ideals are aligned with the ideals of your faves. i’m sure they’d be happy to know they inspire new idols knowing how they started and how big they are now. 

with how fast paced the kpop industry is, you should be at least glad with how long bts managed to remained at the peak. but it fucking happens, groups get old and new ones come and you can’t do anything about it. take it from a VIP lmao, your faves enlist and the popularity of course diminishes but nothing can really take away their impact and their relevance. it stays with their name, stays with their fandom, stays with every fucking person who listened and loved their music and you don’t have to fight every new group stan to prove that. come on, grow the fuck up. it’s not a damn competition!!! it’s all in your head. get out, touch some grass, throw your phone away. deactivate.

on that note, jungkook’s deactivation. i saw a post abt people being upset abt seeing a number 6 instead of 7 on the other boy’s following??? ‘i hate the number 6′ BE FUCKING FOR REAL RN. it’s ok to miss seeing his posts and what not but all this??? as if jk cut off the other boys just by deactivating. your chronically online ass should log off, sweetie <3 it’s not that deep. it’s just a social media account and you’ve lived before he had it, you will be fine. :)

disclaimer: anything i say here is not meant to generalize the entirety of the army fandom. i just found this a bit concerning bc what the fuck :D do smth better w/ your life it’s for ur own good

[struggle-but-its-all-ocean-floor]

"The way Big Hit lets BTS collab with problematic or not very well respected artists is insane. It's like they'll take anyone and don't even bother understanding what fans want."

This. I’m honestly quite baffled Hybe does not seem to bother doing a quick background check on the artists they collab with. Or they just don’t care? Jungkook doesn’t seem to mind so… Imo it doesn’t mesh very well with BTS’ message, the core values they stand for, and why so many of us fell in love with them. It was so nice to see artists setting an example, not behaving outrageously, acknowledging their past mistakes and trying not to repeat them. It felt sincere and a breath of fresh air in the pop music industry, as least for me. It’s really not that hard to find good artists out there who haven’t said crazy stuff and acting up in all kind of stupid ways, or is it? I have to admit I don’t really follow the US music scene now, it seems so full of narcissistic posers competing for popularity by behaving like total dumbasses and thinking they’re so edgy and rebellious and cool. I’m passed the age for that. I just quite don’t understand what’s the end goal exactly, apart from just making big $$$ on the moment. They’re trying to make a name for Jungkook himself on the western side, sure, I get this, but it feels desperate. It’s going all over the place, with the 4th collab for him coming, as if he could not do well on his own? Are they trying to built an audience for his first solo single on Golden? Does he really needed all this beforehand? It feels like a waste of time and talent to me, the industry moves extra fast and it’s always chasing for the next big name and next hit when Jungkook will be gone for 18 months soon anyway and 3D will be another mediocre song in the trashcans of the pop music history… As you said it’s like they’re accepting collabs after collabs without putting too much thoughts into it. It’s a good move for Latto, Harlow & co, is it really for Jungkook for the future? But if it’s what he wants… It doesn’t seem like a good strategy on the long term, but I’m no marketer so what do I even know. Maybe I’m just saying bs. What’s for sure is that this current strategy is not working on me and I’m far from being the only one it seems… Sorry my English is a bit rusty and I probably sound like a broken record as I know you have already talked about it a lot and many anons shared a similar opinion.

Also I was just thinking, about collabs: listening to Troye Sivan’s last song, I feel like a collab with him could have been one with potential for something a bit different and audacious. But I’m totally biased, I love his music and I think he’s such a sweet guy. And he expressed a few times a real interest in collaborating with Jungkook or Jimin, who both used to mention him a lot. He did collaborated with BTS before but still, it seems like a missed opportunity to me. But maybe they’re just simply not interested anymore

Yeah, tbh the industry doesn't much care for morals and neither does the majority of audiences, but Army isn't the GP. We take pride in BTS's values and expect them to be the exception to the rule. We take who they collab with seriously. When they collab with problematic people there's usually some push back from the fandom, even if most Armys roll with it. With 3D, I did see a lot of people complain about Jack Harlow, but most stayed quiet. Yet the lack of noise 3D made in the fandom compared to Seven speaks volumes.

I don't know Troye Sivan well but he makes indie-leaning music, right? That's not a style Jungkook has done a lot, so it would be more interesting for him than the kind of music Kid Laroi makes.

Thanks for the ask!

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

BTS and the Billboard Article

I am once again not surprised by the online behavior of I-Army when it comes to what is considered a so called negative perspective from journalists in regards to BTS, and the latest Billboard piece is a clear example of that. It seems that the main issue was the mention of Armys bulk buying and mass streaming, something that was not written as a shade, with no room to respond, as it was done transparently, by directly asking BTS and giving them a chance to respond to such allegations, which RM did:

“It’s a fair question,” says RM of allegations that ARMY’s work amounts to chart manipulation. “But if there is a conversation inside Billboard about what being No. 1 should represent, then it’s up to them to change the rules and make streaming weigh more on the ranking. Slamming us or our fans for getting to No.1 with physical sales and downloads, I don’t know if that’s right ... It just feels like we’re easy targets because we’re a boy band, a K-pop act, and we have this high fan loyalty.”

The interviewer mentioned a phenomenon that is prevalent in this band's fandom. And since Army has reached a global scale, their impact is much higher than those of other bands or solo artists. There is nothing wrong with trying to examine and understand the power, impact and involvement of a powerful fandom.

There are several problems with the online responses. No, BTS and consequently Army are not the only ones who are ''called out'' for such practices. This is not a vendetta towards a K-Pop band, as much as fans would like to spin it only in that way. And I guess people would know such things if they would only read other articles. With a simple google search, we can find several pieces, such as articles on the problems that come with streaming practices, as you can find here in a Rolling Stone piece and here in a Billboard article. Rolling Stone has also written about Payola and this Washington Post article on the Billboard Charts deserve an extensive reading, since it focuses on the questioning of Billboard charts as a barometer for success, mentioning practices in connection to Drake and Kanye West and what it means to give such a high importance to charts:

“If you’re looking at charts to understand music history, the best analogy is using statistics to understand sports history,” Klosterman said. “You’re looking at something that numerically seems simple but it’s completely impacted and changed by the era it comes from.”

Plus, he added, like all statistics, “charts can be used in any way you want them to be.”

“It does seem that as often as the charts are used to validate someone’s importance, they’re just as often used to show that temporary interest in any kind of art is ephemeral and kind of meaningless,” Klosterman said, pointing to Prince and Led Zeppelin as an example. One could easily point to Prince’s five No. 1 hits as proof of his pop dominance. Simultaneously, one could point to the fact that Led Zeppelin never had a No. 1 hit as proof that singles don’t matter, since they’ve become one of the most pervasive rock bands in American history.’’

Do people really think that when it comes to Western artists, they don't get negative reviews for their singles and albums? That everyone is held on a pedestal all the time? Or the fact that indie artists are ignored so many times? That the Western music industry is not held into question? Bigger bands throughout music history have gotten negative reviews written in Rolling Stone magazine, while their albums still sold, they packed stadiums and still had a loyal fanbase. Just as BTS. So if Army wants to go with this narrative, then they better do their research and not act like they know in depth how journalism works. A piece like the Billboard one was thoroughly researched, with multiple sources, something that the interviewer has done. He reached out to Hybe representatives, asked directly the BTS members and used twitter as a source, which is legitimate. That's the online space where Army and fans of other artists reside, especially since the issue in question happens on twitter. The posts are public which means they can be used as reference. This is not uncommon, since it's a more direct way to see what fans are thinking.

Another aspect that was considered problematic was bringing into discussion military enlistment. First of all, it's a reality and ignoring it won't make it disappear. Second of all, it makes sense that enlistment was mentioned in connection to the future of Hybe and their artists and its financial consequences. BTS brings money. The music industry it's not all about music artistry, but a business as well, and the focus of the article was very clear on that. Why this aspect is so important when it comes to BTS and the criticism was that it's not brought into attention with other K-Pop bands, is that BTS find themselves in a different situation, given their cultural/financial impact. If we hold BTS at a different standard, then it makes sense for such a discussion in an interview to take place.

Lastly, I would like to point out that one of the worst outcomes of this situation was to see the online reaction which, again, consisted of threats towards the interviewer, posts demanding people to not buy the magazine, which is ludicrous because I believe people should be allowed to think for themselves. This is where Army influence makes its presence and how powerful it can be in making other fans simply follow, without question, what others deem as a ''correct'' type of action.

I guess it's uncomfortable when a fandom is put on the spotlight and it's unfortunate that Army, as a global force cannot act in a way that doesn't have to resume to threats and outrage, instead of trying to actually understand what was written and really think about it. There were so many aspects brought up in that article beyond the Army issue, which indeed makes it valuable. From opening up on the disbandment issue in 2018, difficulties and reluctance to sing only in English, talks about legacy and the impact such a stardom has on them as individuals. BTS know how to defend themselves and it seems they do the same when it comes to their fans, as we have witnessed in the responses given to the questions. Army doesn't have to be this defender for 7 rich grown men and especially in such a shameful manner. Maybe a double down on the savior complex is needed sometimes.