#comictary

[littledead-ridinghood]

Hey, are Nightwing fans okay? Because I keep seeing random screenshots from Tom Taylor’s run and what the fuck is going on? He has a secret half sister? Powers? A foster child? He called Bruce ‘dad’ for the first time to his face in his entire history or something? He’s making deals with legitimate devil? I keep seeing screenshots of the most out of pocket cliches every other month with no resolution what so ever

[geekcastradionetwork]

475 - Comictaries - TMNT III - Turtles In Time (1993)

475 – Comictaries – TMNT III – Turtles In Time (1993)

A NEW LIMITED series here inside The Pull Bag! TPB Comictaries. Join Joe Reed and TFG1Mike in EP 475 as they celebrate the 29th Anniversary of the 1993 TMNT Sequel Film! Joe and Mike realize as they are watching Turtles in Time, that it’s not as bad as either of them remembered. Join us as we reminisce on our youth! COWABUNGA DUDES AND DUDDETTES!!!! MAJOR LEAGUE PODCASTING IS BACK IN…

[graphicpolicy]

We all know someone who’s never seen Star Wars or doesn’t gets it when you say “We’re gonna need a bigger boat!,” it’s from Jaws by the way. Whenever I meet someone like that I let them know how they have a void in their life that needs filling. When it came to Frank Miller and Dave Gibbons Martha Washington I was the one who had a void to fill, but thanks to Dark Horse Comics for publishing The Life and Times of Martha Washington in the Twenty-First Century, this trade paperback collects every page of Our shero Martha Washington. My life is complete as I take a flashback to this visionary work from two of comics greatest storytellers.

The late 80’s- early 90’s saw a huge number of creators becoming so disenfranchised with the big comic companies that they struck of on their own or headed to smaller companies to form boutique labels. This new freedom allowed Miller the ability to further his critique on current events and society from the viewpoint of heroine Martha Washington.

Woman, soldier, leader, weapon, protector, explorer, Earth Mother all attributes and details that give you a very broad description of Washington. This black woman born in the slums of Chicago’s infamous Cabrini–Green Homes housing project, a maximum security “home” in this story, becomes the most influential person in history, saving the US and Earth from enemies foreign and domestic. Again the most basic, lay explanation of this book I could think of because Miller and Gibbons create a world that hits a little too close to home with a parody of US international and domestic politics, thankfully Washington is there to help them survive.

This edition collects every appearance of Martha, including the short black and white stories, now fully colored and remastering and has a great crossover with Miller’s other creation, Big Guy from Big Guy and Rusty. The trade is graced by a brief introduction from Miller but the true value is Gibbons insight for each stage of the various story arcs, backstory of the series publishing herstory in addition to pages of concept notes and design ideas.

Sadly the importance of this book is I feel more relevant in today’s world of 45*, ecological disasters on the horizon, Hydra-Cap, the seduction of artificial intelligence and America at a critical juncture for its collective soul. You won’t be able to not compare timelines and you’ll wonder if her version of the 21st century is better than ours, if only Millers crystal ball of social comictary could comfort us in knowing that we’ll make it through the next four years with only minor bumps and bruises.

If you’ve never read it go fill that void in your life like I did.

  George Carmona 3rd is an Artist/Writer, former Milestone Media Intern, former DC Comics paper pusher, current book lover, and lifelong comic geek. You can find his work at FistFullofArt.com or follow him on twitter at GCarmona3.

The Life and Times of Martha Washington in the 21st Century is more relevant today #comics #flashbackfriday We all know someone who's never seen Star Wars or doesn't gets it when you say “We’re gonna need a bigger boat!,” it's from…

[littledead-ridinghood]

Ollie Queen and Jefferson Pierce are in fact what batfans pretend Bruce is and both of them should be much more popular than they are now

They should be more popular! I haven’t read Jefferson Pierce yet but he (and tatsu) is on my really long reading list of character to get to, so I won’t speak on him yet but he seems really cool

Anyway: I just…I keep seeing “Ollie is so mean and hates his kids thank god Batman is here to save them and also yelling and berate Ollie for being such a horrible dad” content. And man…thank god I’m so good at keeping to my “just keep scrolling” philosophy

Like Bruce????

The man that continuously hits his kids with no repercussions, manipulates them, calls them “his soldiers in his war on crime”, never lets his kids think they’re doing good enough, projects all his insecurities, traumas, & prejudices on to them—

Without ever a “sorry” or working to be better? Like people love to flaunt Snowbirds but do you know how many years of effort Ollie put into his relationship with Roy to make it better again? So many. And he let Roy make the decision rather than forcing him back into the folds.

Furthermore. ollie is usually the one that tells Bruce to shape up (in politics and as a family man):

Infamously about Dick:

(Which Bruce follows up with “he’s more than that. He fights by my side…” but like it really just reads as bruce parentifing the hell outta him [Dick] and, by extension, the rest of the children he’s brought into his home)

And also infamously Jason:

(I’ll do an analysis on this story one day…one day)

Here you can see their differences as people and how they view theirs and the other’s family by how they differentiate between Jason and Mia. Where Ollie considers Bruce Jason’s father because Ollie sees himself a father as he took these kids under his responsibility, Bruce denies Ollie’s role of being a father because he doesn’t take responsibility for the role of bringing children into this life (especially because he very often does not see his children as children).

If you want a super politically outspoken man, someone who continuously gives back to his community, someone who actually hates cops…guys! Ollie’s right there!

Frankly, I don’t like playing into the “this is the character people should be liking rather than who they think they like” because it’s been done to me so many times and I Hate It. But when the character who is actually like this (Ollie) is given the role Bruce canonically fulfills (usually specifically to be used as a prop to uplift “good dad Bruce”) I lose it. I think I lose it specifically because in other aspect it’s about more so trivial things, differences on how the media was consumed and interpreted, or just haven’t read as much as the character as the fan has, but I’m Bruce’s case, so few people want to acknowledge the abuse he enacts on his kids (and co-workers) in lieu of playing happy family at the expense of the children’s characters

[littledead-ridinghood]

Yes sorry Ollie is a cop. He is a cop in the way nearly every DC hero is a cop and part of copaganda. We have multiple articles on how all super heroes are cops but that you can enjoy them and find catharsis anyway. Ollie gives people justice who are ignored by the system and Ollie is a cop are both true that's ok. You can look up super heroes and copaganda on youtube and find multiple nuanced videos.

okay, I wasn't going to respond to this at first, but this is my opinion on cops in the dc universe. It's not fully fleshed out yet, I feel, but I've been mulling it over in my head for months, and is something I've wanted to talk about for a while now.

Plainly speaking, I think cops who work with vigilantes are inherently bad cops. Vigilantism is illegal and when cops team up with vigilantes, they are adhering to their moral code rather than the law ie copaganda.

It's a play on dramatic irony where we as the audience know more than the characters in the story. We can see Detective Jim Gordan, for example, working with Batman (who were told is a good guy) because he knows the GCPD is corrupted and he can't trust his fellow officers. Therefore, because Batman is headlined as "the good guy" in these storylines that reflects on Jim Gordan making him, in turn, "a good guy." We're told to view him as such because Jim's morals are "clean," "see he also wants to clean up Gotham City, so he's partnering with the people who are actually trying to do that."

The problem is that in these instances, Gordan is adhering to his morals over the law where his morals are to protect the people where the law says to protect property. We can say that it's for the greater good, but that doesn't change the fact that it's illegal, argo, making him "dirty". And that is copaganda! Upholding Gordan for breaking the law because "he knows better than the institute" is literally some of the most common copaganda in media. It's right next to writing cops as if they're your friends so that people will instill trust in the institution (think B99).

Cops and vigilantes should inherently not get along because vigilantes would not exist if the system--if cops--worked. But the system doesn't work, so these individuals take justice into their own hands via criminal action. Now, we look at these heroes and say "yes, they're criminals on a legal basis, but we understand that morally speaking, they're doing good work." Jim Gordan doesn't have the luxury of that grayness. He can try to clean up Gotham, but once he starts doing so outside the law, he, himself, is also a criminal and an accomplice.

Personally, I don't think your moral compass should start and stop with the law because the law isn't always morally correct. Many laws throughout history have been created by those in power to stay in power. And if you can't recognize how the law can be used to impede on others' natural rights then you have an unholy amount of privilege. Having said that, most fiction where cops are allowed to uphold their morals over the law is written as them protecting the people (as stated with Jim) rather than the real-world equivalent where upholding "morals" is usually off-the-rail abuse of power. This is where cops use the excuse "I thought they had a gun!" and jump straight to brutality rather than assessing the situation and attempting to talk a person down. Because it's not actually about morals like portrayed on t.v. but, again, that idea that laws exist to keep the top on top.

I disagree with your statement: "[Ollie] is a cop in the way nearly every DC hero is a cop and part of copaganda." Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but this is a very "a square is a rectangle, so a rectangle should also be a square" kind of argument.

I think characters can have instances of copaganda (any story that has cops in it is inherently copaganda, even if portrayed in the worst light possible, for the simple fact that cops are present) but, that doesn't make them a cop.

By saying Oliver is a cop, I presume you mean because he goes after criminals, which completely undermines what a cop is. That's like saying an attorney of law is a cop because they work in the legal system to prosecute the accused i.e. going after criminals. Cops exist to protect property, uphold the law (but they have no legal obligation to protect the public a la DeShaney vs. Winnebago(1989), Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales(2005) and re-enforced after Uvalde in spring '22), and was created to control weaker groups of people.

That's just not how Ollie's portrayed. Oliver is portrayed as an anti-fascist, social justice, cop-hating, criminal. He's literally juxtaposed with cops. Holding himself accountable in law is not an endorsement of the legal system but rather a stance in his morals that no one is above accountability which is how the law should work. You can say all of his writing, just by including cops, makes his comics copaganda, but that doesn't reflect on Ollie as a character endorsing the police nor does it "make him a cop". Copaganda reflects on cops as an institution and how writers want us to view them. Oliver is literally one of the characters whose stories actively revolve around him sticking up for those who are victimized by the police. You said it yourself, anon, "Nearly every DC hero is a cop." You just happened to pick one of the ones who falls into the small minority of non-cop abiding.

Furthermore, though I assume you mean Oliver metaphorically embodies what role cops fill, in the literal sense as well, your claim is fundamentally wrong because Oliver Queen has never been an actual cop before either. Someone who would fit your sentiment would be Dick Grayson who has been written in the role of an officer before (literal) as well as upholds the system as best he can (metaphorical).

The difference between Bruce, Oliver, and Dick in their inherent "all stories that have cops are" copaganda is that Dick and Bruce both constantly get aligned with cops by others including the police whereas the Police actively hunt Ollie down because they see him as a threat to their power. Ollie actively hates cops. Bruce and Dick (usually) actively don't. Ollie works against the Police whereas the other two work with the police so much so that, again, citizens relate their brutality to that of cops.

I was reading Hal and Ollie's road trip arc a good handful of months ago (of which is about the dichotomized relationship between Ollie "loud and proud leftist" Queen and Hal "before his rebellious phase" Jordan), and one of the issues was made up of two stories. The second one is of Hal and Ollie at odds over the best way to solve something via the authorities or good ol' fashion revolution, but I want to focus on the first half of the issue. It takes place in Gotham where Officer Bullocks literally commits an act of heavy Police Brutality against a gang of older teens and young adults who wronged him(they trashed his entire apartment) and he gets away with it because he "felt bad." It was horrifying to read; there was no accountability.

So I agree with you, there is a wild amount of copaganda in comic books both because of writers' political beliefs and views on the world (bullocks getting away with it because the writer thought it was fine) but also in the context of the stories. An example of in-story writing would be the first thing Jason ever said to Bruce in rebirth: "You want to beat up on a kid, go enlist in the G.C.P.D. like every other bully in this city." So in the context of the batman universe, Jason and people like Jason (i.e. the weak and vulnerable) do relate vigilantes to cops because they constantly see them working with each other. Dick Grayson was a cop for a period of time joining the Blud. police department because "those were the morals his father instilled in him." And I could go on and on about the faith comic characters constantly put in law and order.

Oliver holding himself accountable under the law, though, is not endorsing the system like Bruce and Dick do, he does not place his faith in law and order. That is him actively taking a stance saying he is not above the law. Where on most cases, Bruce does view himself as being above. And even when Bruce admits to going too far, he will never fess up to the public that he, Bruce Wayne, did it, whereas Ollie doesn't allow himself to hide behind his persona. A big difference between the two men is that Oliver being Green Arrow is very public knowledge and Bruce tries to hide his life as batman as best as he can. It all comes down to accountability.

Now, you sent this about Ollie, so why am I talking so much about him in relation to Bruce. That's because Ollie and Bruce are constantly being related to as the same, usually in the vein of "well, they're both hella rich with no powers who play dress up, right?" But this is a complete misunderstanding of Ollie's character (for one, he's not rich, or at least he's not supposed to be).

I think this constant water-downed view of Ollie is what allows people to project Bruce's less-than-iron beliefs onto Ollie.

There are decades worth of canon where a core of Ollie's is the fact that he can't stand cops and doesn't believe the system that's used now can be saved, only mitigated as something better replaces it. He holds himself accountable for his actions as Green Arrow because he knows that just complaining isn't enough. He needs to step up as a leader and not just help overthrow a discriminatory institution but actually actively help rebuild it. Whereas Bruce actively believes the system can be saved. Most notable that comes to mind right now is the new Batman movie where Bruce, in his final monologue, just saw how the cops failed to protect Gotham from the riddler, but states how, just like the bat symbol is now established with hope, he now has hope that the police can do the right thing. He doesn't learn that the current system will never truly work and instead now believes that it could work (when we know it can't).

If you want to focus on copaganda in DC comics, Arrows just aren't going to be your strongest contestants. Because Copaganda does exist, but your best bet is going to lie within most bat-adjacent characters who literally try to uphold that system. Or you can look at lanterns whose stories not only are about literal space cops but have also deviated from Hal Jordan rebuilding his moral compass and calling out the guardians for their fascist tendencies to turning Guy Gardener, a man previously written as to be a notorious cop hater, into working in the Baltimore P.D. as an actual cop. Those groups have the basis for talking how police are glorified. Arrows just don't have that historical canon for a strong argument.

[littledead-ridinghood]

Maybe I’m a loser with no sense of fun in some aspects of comics (very true) BUT, god, some of you are So Lame

I don’t think I can stand another post or comment like “Ollie’s goatee is so stupid. It’s too identifiable” “give the robins pants. The costume is horrible otherwise” “that uniform would not stop actual harm” “stop giving Jason a white streak. People will be able to find him otherwise.”

First of all: iconic and he looks terrible without the goatee. That is not Mr. Oliver Queen thank you

Second of all: Do not want characters to look…cool over functional in your fiction. I’d rather have fun with spandex than 15 layers of the same military grade combat suits we’d be stuck with then (also that’d be way too complex for an artist to draw over and over and over again for months) (yes, women are objectified more than men with their superhero outfits. No, this is not what that is about)

Like….Sure…in the real world….yes, you would, when protesting, committing illicit activities, etc, cover up identifiables and wear “proper uniforms” but this isn’t the real world. Do…do you want the costumes to all being boring black face masks??? Do you not want to be able to tell the characters apart *points at every black haired, blue eyed male DC owns*??? DO YOU NOT WANT THEM TO HAVE FUN LITTLE CHARACTER QUIRKS THAT MAKE THEM FUN TO DRAW??!??

Why are all of you so boring? These are comic books and you’re mad about a tattoo because it can identify a vigilante rather than just appreciating the aesthetic of a look. I don’t get it. I really Don’t Get It! Like these quirks are there so, yes, their noticeable in the real-world public for profit, but also because That’s. How. Character. Design. Works. Little things that makes a character their own person. Brings them to life or what have you.

Like I get if you don’t Like a design choice. Sure, their are many character design choices I don’t like. But you don’t need a weird reason like “the cops would be able to notice them!1!” when that’s not even an actual plot point. Just say you don’t like it. It’s fine! It’s Good, even! But trying to strip characters of physical traits by applying real world logic is so boring

[littledead-ridinghood]

I get to update my “how many days since Jason’s died (sans elseworlds)” post apparently

Gleefully rubbing my hands together

[littledead-ridinghood]

wait when did tom taylor make jason a cop?

So this is such a basic simple question which is why the response is going to be a nice 1.5k word long post like a normal reasonable person would do!

So Tom Taylor wrote the 2021 Nightwing Annual with Dick and Jason being all brother-y. Overall, it's pretty cute and I could totally nitpick* if I so desired but also bby robin jay and Discowing Dick as well as Adult Dick and Jason getting along, absolutely precious. Anyway, Tom Taylor didn't make Jason a cop but he still has Jason endorsing the Justice system.

He wrote Jason saying to Dick: "You were right. Sometimes seeing them get justice, Seeing their power and freedom get taken away, is better than dealing out violence." This is in relation to Jason sending one of his mom's main drug dealers to be tried.

In the context of looping, the statement isn’t 100% bad. It's supposed to loop back to Jason as a child, in the flashback scene of the annual, saying "you want to hit a kid? Hit me." in relation to a kidnapper and how dick says Jason went too far when dealing with the man.

The problem isn't Jason saying "[violence isn't always the answer]" but it's him trusting the system. Jason's foundations, even when his backstory was him as a blond circus boy, has him questioning the police and their actual motives. Jason staunchly believes that the system doesn't work. So him saying it's better seeing justice in a situation where he doesn't actually know if justice will be served properly is OOC. Jason knows that the rich can get off much easier due to money and the connections they may have. (circa lost days: that child sex trafficker that Jason murked because he found out bringing him to the authorities wouldn't do any good as the man had connections within the police that would keep him free). Jason is the kind of person who knows that vigilantes (in comics) only exist because the system does not work. One of his most major driving motivations is the fact that he understands intimately that most people do not care for victims. He gets deeply invested in cases because he knows what's it's like to be on the bottom and for the powerful above him to get of easier just because they have more power.

Jason calling Arkham a revolving door highlights his belief that no one is actually doing anything to help stop the violence in Gotham, but instead perpetuating a cycle. Fuck, in BftC, Jason criticizes Bruce for always teaming up with Jim Gordan and the police in B's search for "validation".

Jason has been heavily implied to be a victim of police brutality as a child. He has seen them do fuck things which readers can infer by Jason's first street rat appearance and how he doesn't trust cops. Furthermore, he believes the police and vigilantes should not mix because they are directly in opposition to each other. If the cops were "good" they would be trying to stop the bats because the bats are literal criminals taking action into their own hands, violently. So, even if we all understand that, for example, Gordan being on the side of the bats is morally good as he understands the system is broken and that the bats do good work, he is going against the legal system he is supposed to uphold to keep the collective safe. The legal system should not be your compass for morality as the legal system was created and always changing to, most usually, keep the powerful in power and the marginalized, marginalized. Alas, Jim still needs to uphold the law so he doesn't jeopardize having other officers following their personal morals over the law leading to what would probably lead to higher rates of police brutality. If the police partner with Batman and see Bruce being so violent towards perpetrators, and he's on their side, endorsing what they, as cops, do, that opens up the doorway to make it okay for cops to be as equally violent as the Bat towards people they take into custody. Jason is one of the vigilantes who understand this exemplified in his staunch avoidance of Cops

Future State on the other hand (which, for transparency, I never finished bc A. I'm terrible at finishing runs, whether they're ongoing (which is even harder for me then) or not, and B. It just wasn't really my cup of tea), DC had Jason undercover in the magistrate (i.e.the authoritarian police state enforcers) for Bruce....? (i heard some people say it wasn't actually Bruce but Clayface? idk. he was undercover for who he thought was Bruce) which was pretty obv he was undercover, yet, in the end, I'm pretty sure, Jason stays willingly in the magistrate to bring it down further? I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but that's where they made Jason a cop and, even if he was undercover, I couldn't bare to read it.

Literally one of my least favorite tropes: where the kid from the messy background who distrusted the system for good reason grows up and ends up joining the system. The only time I could except cop!Jason is that one fanfic where after B slits his throat so Jason joins the force and makes the bats obsolete by being the cop Park Rowians trusted while also still backgrounding as RH therefore he can be untouchable when he finally kills the Joker. I'll link it:

Best Served Cold 3k oneshot by Balrog_Roike

*This is where I'm going to nitpick for my own sense of peace. All in all, the annual isn't bad, personally, I liked it. It’s only if you think about it too much and dwell over it all. But the subtleties are where the biases are able to sneak in so this is like way to much for like 6 panels total....

Jason being mad at the kidnapper isn't bad nor do I think Jason getting so violent with someone for hitting children is OOC(actually Jason getting in between beatings for others is a very common theme of Jason's. Not just defusing, but legit just taking the beatings so someone else doesn't have to). It actually falls in line with OG Jason slamming that pimp for hitting a woman in broad daylight and him saying "How do you like being on the receiving end, for a change?!" compared to "Hit me. Go on. Hit me!" Both situations are Jason pissed the hell off that people think they can just push around others weaker than them. I just really want a modern story with a happy Jason. Like, we get it. In situations like this, Jason gets super emotionally invested, but I think DC has ingrained in the audience enough that Jason is angry over the concept of injustice. I see enough "Jason was the angry robin" takes. I just want my baby to be sweet for me!!! If every story we get of Robin Jason is him being angry, whether he's in the "right" or "not", it's just further pushing the idea that he was angry over everything all the time if that's all we see, and he wasn't.

As with most every story with Jason and the other bats, there's always that underlying theme of Jason "giving up" for the other bats and him being rewarded with being allowed to be family with the rest of them because he finally fell into Bruce and their's wishes. It's super subtle but with the "Bruce and I are proud of you for putting down the guns" and the "you were right..." Idk. it's just can be read as a ‘you're doing stuff how we want you to rather than how you want to’ superiority complex thing. It's 'i understand everything I did and thought was actually wrong, but now I see the light.' But the 'i'm proud you're doing what I want" pothole is kinda inescapable when writing Jason with the other bats

The crowbar joke goes without saying. Again, Jason never gets to properly address his murder but everyone gets to poke fun at him for it. I just wish one bat cared enough to ask Jason if he's okay rather than also beating him down about it. It comes across tackless.

When other bats call adult Jason “robin”, it rubs me wrong. Like in WFA, Jason's tracker symbol is apparently his robin symbol. It just seems like a lack of acceptance that Jason is alive again and now is the red hood. In the annual, if it’s supposed to be Dick having a minor flashback to when Jason was robin, I think that’s fair (for example: if Bruce saw Jason hurt and called him “robin” bc he was reminded of dead!Jay I wouldn’t fault him either, PTSD and memories and all that). On the flip side, if Dick is trying to get Jason to stop, the effect comes across as disrespectful to Jason's actual existence now by constantly relaying him back to what he used to be. Living in the past and all that with no ounce of respect present Jason. Some people think it's cute, all the power to them, it just rubs me wrong. I just mention this cause to me it seems like just Dick trying to get Jason to stop, but it’s unclear by Jason’s body language if he’s shocked out of the moment(it doesn’t look like he was).

Again: Those four things are pretty nitpicky in, overall, a story I liked. Especially compared to my main issue, the justice system thing. T.Taylor’s has a habit of being super performative in his social commentary(think how people think that can write a character as a man or white person and then just switch the pronouns or descriptions like that doesn't completely change the character’s outlook on life). 99% of the time he has super shallow takes that are incredibly harmful and tries to use characters as mouthpieces rather than following through on already established beliefs(i.e. Jason not trusting nor liking cops). 

The annual's art is so goddamn pretty. I can't stress enough how much I love the composition and inking. We get pretty Dick and pretty Jason, we get flippy Jason, we get shirtless Jason. We get both bby and discowing as well as adult Dick and Jason getting along, have fun, smiling and laughing and cracking jokes. We get Dick trusting Jason. Their relationship doesn’t come across as fan-servicing which T.T also has a problem with so I’ve heard in the current run of Nightwing. 

Ya, anyway...Big brother Dick grayson and Baby brother Jason Todd soothed my soul at least

[littledead-ridinghood]

I love reading comic wikis because every other paragraph starts with “unfortunately…”

just really hammering it into us that these characters never catch a fricken break

[littledead-ridinghood]

Had a wonderful conversation 30 minutes to midnight last night, in the middle of Safeway, with the guy at the register

He agrees that if you able real world logic to superhero comics, someone would have clocked the clown with a gun by now.

“IF HE [the Joker] WAS ANYONE ELSE, HE’D BE DEAD BY NOW!” Hello, sir? You are Soooooooo Coooooooool and Soooooooo Correct!

[littledead-ridinghood]

Came out as a Cheer hater and believer that even BftC and Morrison!Jason were better than Zadarsky’s version to my comic friends today and I got unanimous support

[littledead-ridinghood]

Today my friends and I talked about the worst way Batman’s no kill rule could be perceived

[littledead-ridinghood]

Reading through GL comics and literally the only word I can think of to describe bruce is “monstrous”