#considering she's the POV character with the most connections there and it's likely she'll return to the riverlands

[fromtheseventhhell]

I’ve seen a lot of people theorizing that Arya’s ending could be that she becomes Lady of Harrenhal. I like that theory, but do you think that Arya would willingly go back to a place where she suffered so much trauma?

Hmmmmmm I haven't really seen a lot of people theorizing this but I do think it has a basis in the books. I don't personally see it as an endgame position for her, although she does have plot connections to Harrenhal. As for her willingly returning there, that could either be a decision she's forced to make or something she chooses to bear for the " greater good". If Arya is in a position where she believes she is able to do some good in that role, I can see her prioritizing that over her own trauma. Either way, I think she will return to Harrenhal/the Riverlands at some point so it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

[agentrouka-blog]

I always thought Melisandre would be at least partially wrong about her vision beyond it being Sansa rather than Arya. The marriage part in particular; while Sansa is (set to be) betrothed to Harry Hardyng, she has no reason to flee the wedding, and assuming he dies, Littlefinger making his move so soon?

I think it may be correlation instead of causation (Littlefinger is preparing a wedding to either Harry, Robin or himself, while Sansa is leaving independently after learning about 'Arya' to the one person she knows for sure would help her rescue her sister, that being Jon - and Melisandre assumed it was the reason for her departure), the error compounded by Melisandre's knowledge of 'Arya' and her own interpretation.

Certainly she will not be even half right. A conflict is being set up and Melisandre will most likely end up near Dany (making her a one-off POV just to kill her in half a book seems odd) but GRRM has been careful to make a point about her fanaticism and free, mistake-riddled interpretation while leaving a true-enough core to serve as foreshadowing device.

Your post about Melisandre's use to manipulate Jon into trusting her was incredibly on point, but we also shouldn't forget her "daggers in the dark" vision. She is invested in Jon's survival for the reasons you laid out, but she can see what's about to happen, and it runs counter to her goals. So she needs to persuade him to trust her ASAP, to make him listen to her warnings, except it fails. The mutiny takes place, like she warned.

Which means Jon post-resurrection would take Melisandre's visions more seriously - and that can't be in this story, so she'll immediately be wrong about something that drove Jon for the second half of the book. Sansa, not Arya. Not a marriage, maybe not even fleeing (though I do think the Mountain Clan attack theory has merit). Either Melisandre's messed with him and maliciously lied to gain his trust (as far as Jon'll be concerned) or she is much too unreliable to make decisions on basis of her visions.

All of that will probably be revealed before Shireen burns and totally ruins any goodwill Jon would have for her, which in turn means he cannot possibly be Azor Ahai in Melisandre's eyes [I don't think Jon is AA, but Melisandre's clearly considering him subconsciously due to Jon obviously having SOME role to play while she's also clinging to her Stannis interpretation] - and in the meantime, dragon rumors reach Melisandre's ears...

Hi there!

Given all the uncertainties about the exact timing of the Northern plotlines coming up, I find it difficult to make concrete predictions about what will happen when.

But I do suspect that Melisandre will not go on as she has been up until now, especially not the same way as she did in the show.

For one, her plotline has been intensely intertwined with Stannis and how own choices relating to the prophecy and the power Melisandre was willing to invest on his behalf, as well as the things he was willing to let her do for his own gain. It's basically led to a destructive religious fanaticism that is bound to take on a life of its own very soon.

I don't necessarily think that GRRM intends to keep around Melisandre as an essentially unchanged character and simply aim her at a different target this time. The horror that is Shireen's murder - something GRRM has been building up to all this time since their introduction - is bound to have consequences for everyone involved, not just Stannis.

And she isn't needed to connect Dany to the story and prophecy of Azor Ahai. There's a basis for that in Essos already:

Haldon nodded. "Benerro has sent forth the word from Volantis. Her coming is the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt was she born to make the world anew. She is Azor Ahai returned … and her triumph over darkness will bring a summer that will never end … death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn …" (ADWD, Tyrion VI)

Where Mel hailed from, others already wait in the wings.

Plus, the other angle on the prophecy:

 "No one ever looked for a girl," he said. It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger." (AFFC, Samwell IV)

...and...

He was not a man to be refused. Sam hesitated a moment, then told his tale again as Marywn, Alleras, and the other novice listened. "Maester Aemon believed that Daenerys Targaryen was the fulfillment of a prophecy . . . her, not Stannis, nor Prince Rhaegar, nor the princeling whose head was dashed against the wall." "Born amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. I know the prophecy." Marwyn turned his head and spat a gob of red phlegm onto the floor.  (AFFC, Samwell V)

Melisandre's role in Westeros was, I think, intended to introduce the prophecy and see its destructive potential and the subversion through to the bitter end with Stannis. This provides important context for when this prophecy is brought up with other people, specifically Dany but potentially also Jon. But that doesn't have to and likely won't be happening through Melisandre.

If she walks away from the murder of Shireen essentially unchanged, GRRM would severely undercut his own message about the prophecy.

"An ant who hears the words of a king may not comprehend what he is saying," Melisandre said, "and all men are ants before the fiery face of god. If sometimes I have mistaken a warning for a prophecy or a prophecy for a warning, the fault lies in the reader, not the book.  (ASOS, Davos V)

GRRM chose to focus much of his energy in Melisandre's single POV chapter on showing how a) wrong she is about a lot of things, and b) how much she is trying to compensate for a deeply traumatic past. Melony, lot seven. Much like Daenerys, she is avoiding a confrontation with the past, with her own choices and her immense pain, and focusing on what she believes she has achieved and will achieve. She ignores her own mistakes to a fault. If I look back I am lost. But look back she must in order for her character to have a cohesive arc.

Melisandre is likely to finish her story before ever encountering Dany, and it is likely to involve a harsh reckoning with her own path and failings and false certainties.

If GRRM has all of Team Stannis collapse in the wake of the prophecy, instead of sending Mel on as a straight continuation, he challenges the reader much more openly into questioning the worth and purpose of the prophecy entirely. The issue isn't Mel, its agent, it is the prophecy and how people react to it.

If Dany encounters the prophecy with Melisandre, the blame could be placed on Mel for leading her astray like she did Stannis.

If Dany encounters the prophecy independently, we will be watching a mirror to Stannis unfold, and it will open up a clearer invitation to compare the patterns of how this exact prophecy has influenced different people throughout the centuries of Targaryen rule all in the same destructive way.

It's a warning that is mistaken for a promise, and in this way, it became self-fulfilling.

[acourtofthought]

I take it you saw that Bryce x Azriel theory too, and you’re not a fan? Lol

Was I that obvious? 😂

This is yet another theory where people are pushing too hard for something that logically makes no sense.

First off, Bryce and Az together would be AWFUL. What about their two personalities seems like a fit to people? She dislikes "alphaholes" which Az kind of is, was a party girl and social while Az likes his space. What do either of them have in common? They are literally from different worlds and don't have anything that connects them on a deeper level.

Also, SJM has confirmed that Bryce and Hunt's story is a trilogy, that if she were to move forward with additional CC books it would be from other characters POV of which there are many she wants to tell.

No that doesn't mean Bryce and Hunt's love story will be three books at which time they'll end their relationship and Bryce's journey will continue on where she'll end up having an entirely new POV in an entirely new storyline with an entirely new love interest. That's like saying Feysands trilogy ended with ACOWAR and Feyre was going to get a new POV with a new romantic interest after that. SJM might love Bryce but I highly doubt she's so special that she'll be the star of two different series, knocking the ACOTAR characters out of the way of the heroes and heroines of their own world.

SJM has said that these series, while crossing over in HOSAB / HOFAS will need to stand alone. Meaning ACOTAR only readers aren't going to have to know anything about the CC world in order for ACOTAR to still make sense. That means Bryce is not going to suddenly be living in Prythian, a land where she doesn't speak the language, falling in love with Az, becoming BFFs with Nesta, kicking it with the IC as her new found family, ruling over the people of Prythian who could give a shit over what blood runs through her veins considering she has not lived in their world and has not fought with them in the last however many centuries. It's all good and exciting that the power of Theia runs through her veins but there's a bit more to earning someone's loyalty than that. Can you really see the High Lords deferring to a newcomer who did nothing to save their people during Amarantha? Hybern? Not to mention it already looks like they've got another of Theia's descendants in their midst (Rhysand, through the unnamed daughter).

People are taking that sword and dagger prophecy way too literally. Just like the Suriel saying, "stay with the High Lord" didn't mean stay with Tamlin, it meant something else. Just like Ruhn's bloodline ending with him most likely does not mean he's going to die. "When sword and dagger are reunited, so too shall our people" could simply mean that because the dagger is probably what drew Bryce to Prythian, it's going to be the reason she learns about their history, how they're all connected and how she can use that information to save her world. It could mean they were the ones meant to lead her to a portal to Hel to get the help she needs. Or maybe SJM will eventually do one major battle scene down the road (Avengers Endgame style) where everyone joins in to defeat a major threat then they all return to their own worlds).

In the Discovery of Witches trilogy there's a prophecy that says something like, "the witch with the blood of the lion and the wolf will end the children of the night" and everyone figured it meant she'd end the vampire race but what actually happened was so far from that. Prophecy's in books are never what you think, the end result is always some twisted version but initially delivered in a way that gets you looking in one direction. With Bryce's prophecy, it doesn't mean that whoever holds the sword and dagger are destined to be lovers, causing them to completely forsake the rest of their lives to be together and it doesn't mean that SJM is going to take two completely different worlds in two different series and smash them together, turning Prythian into an unrecognizable place full of merpeople, seaotters, wolf shifters, angels, etc. who bring with them the knowledge of guns and drugs and cellphones and sneakers. It doesn't mean that Bryce is going to take over as the new star of the ACOTAR world and it doesn't mean they're going to take over as the new main characters of Midgard. Each series already has their FMCs and MMCs.

Bryce's loyalty is still going to be to her brother, to her friends on Midgard, to her parents, to her people there, to her chosen mate who is currently being tortured (meaning if she were to fall in love with someone else while Hunt's future is unknown it would come off as completely heartless). People need to respect that these are series that stand alone, no matter how SJM connected them, rather than trying to constantly combine them. Do you know how many Arrow and Flash crossovers / cameos there were? Yet they never merged and became "The Adventures of the Arrow and the Flash!" They remained as two different series with their own stories to tell.

It makes me LAUGH when people call Gwyn and Az a crackship yet go hard on Bryce and Az considering Bryce and Az can't even communicate, Bryce lives on an entirely different planet, is in love with someone else who she calls her mate, and Az felt something spark in his chest for Gwyn then Gwyn flirted with him.

Bryce / Az as mates is yet another example of someone showing off their knowledge of lore and mythology, pulling random excerpts from the book to support their ideas while ignoring the canon that discredits them rather than actually focusing on who SJM is as a writer.