#dni if you dont agree we're just musing

[alicentsgf]

here's the link lmk what u think about ithttps://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFgvfTV7/

okay so that was VERY interesting.

tl;dr for anyone that doesnt have time to watch - ryan says that the neck-grab was more about viserys. daemon really wanted to hurt viserys and hes always seen rhaneyra as just an extension of viserys. he basically implies it was always truly viserys that daemon wanted to attention and love of, to be the partner of.

I'm really trying to figure out what he means by this, and I'm wondering if you're right and he means that Daemon wanted to be to Viserys what Visenya was to Aegon, to give him everything, to be his sword and advisor and give him an heir (though perhaps in himself rather than through being a consort and birthing heirs ?). So yes, actually I see what he means about Daemon and it's something I've never considered before although I have always thought power is more important to him that Rhaenyra... but is it more important to him than Viserys? No, from what we've seen. Honestly I do think if Daemon had been born a woman but had still been very much Daemon in every other way then he would've probably been happier with his position, assuming he was allowed to be a Visenya-type of queen - I think Baelon as a father would have indulged that though, given the type of woman he married; Alyssa was much more a Visenya than a Rhaenys too.

Being born a second son definitely pushed Daemon further from power and further from his brother than if he'd been born a daughter, and likely married off to Viserys, and those are the things he desperately seeks; proximity to power and Viserys approval and love.

The comment about Rhaenyra being an extension of Viserys is funny because I just made a post about Alicent being perceived as an extension of Otto. These poor girls just cant shake off their dads. I don't think any of the men in this show see the women as entire people, (considering how they all certainly assign worths to them based on their claims and their ability to produce children.) So it doesn't surprise me that Daemon would see Rhaenyra as an extension of Viserys rather than as a whole person. Which leads me to believe it wasn't just desire that had him groom Rhaenyra and part of the reason he pursued her, especially after she was named heir, was because if he was her consort Viserys wouldn't be able to send him away anymore. His place would be with her, and her place would be by Viserys side. Of course, when he finally gets Rhaenyra he's been burnt so many times by Viserys that he's all but given up, as we see in his conversations with Laena, so he's happy to disappear of to dragonstone and try to use Rhaenyra to fill the Viserys-shaped hole. I think his misogyny will make him struggle to see Rhaenyra as a ruler, to see her making decisions, especially ones he disagrees with. He's going to realise she isn't Viserys, and he doesn't feel the same watching her rule as he felt watching Viserys rule, for whatever reason.

Ngl I know Ryan said it isn't sexual, and maybe it isn't at the point we meet them in hotd, but... it's not crazy to me that Daemon might have loved his brother that way when they were young, even if Daemon never fully understood those feelings. They are Targayens, and Daemon did have scenes that were cut of him having an interest in men. He certainly acts in ways to get his attention that speak to an obsessive level of love that often walks hand in hand with his approach to sexual interest. And I know he hates Alicent because he sees her as an extension of her father, but there could be another element to it. It could be partly jealousy, even if it's just over the place she has at Viserys side, rather than the fact she shares his bed...

But yeah... a lot to think about.

[speechbbls]

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