#dt discourse

[alittledizzy]

helpful list of things that neither dream nor george have ever been accused of, for people trying to clear the twitter-brain from their perception:

kissing anyone underage having sex with anyone underage pressuring anyone for sex pressuring anyone to kiss them initiating any kissing or sex without consent trying to coerce anyone into kissing or sex touching anyone in a non-PG rated area touching anyone's breasts or genitals without consent not accepting no as a response to a consent request physically hurting or abusing any woman in any way

a lot of the language out there on twitter particularly is designed to emphasize them as monsters. a lot of people are conflating reality with personal opinions on them based on rumors or the telephone game of facts. a lot of people are using interpersonal relationship drama between people in their late teens/early twenties as proof of abuse when people that age are just messy and it's not a crime. especially considering all of this played out online because it was the pandemic and everyone was online.

form your own opinions on dream and george. but do it on the facts of the situation and not emotion or projection over things that didn't happen. and for fuck's sake don't let twitter be the determining factor in how you view a situation.

[jestbee]

okay back to misery. we lost ant too

Ant made a statement off twitter without mentioning George once, simply said to support victims and that that the fandom's extreme reactions to all things is harmful.

"I support Caiti" does not equal "I am no longer friends with George and think he's evil" there is nuance. As usual.

[alchemicalys]

Calling touching someone's WAIST after you've been flirting and cuddling with each other all night the same thing as rape or sexual assault just serves to water down those terms and give them less impact when they actually matter. Feeling uncomfortable after the fact is perfectly acceptable but saying it's SA is a reach, and the internet villainizing someone to this extent is just not it.

[faerygardens]

There are more tallulah & tommy fics on ao3 than there are pac & mike fics

[ingravinoveritas]

Someone shelving a DVD of Staged series 1 and 2 in the LGBTQ+ section of a shop is entirely too accurate and will never not be hilarious...

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

gotta love how people keep blaming glimmer for her attitude in s4 when part of the reason she was so irritated was because catra sent double trouble to manipulate and provoke glimmer, and start fights between her and adora. but we never talk about that, do we?

[comradeboyhalo]

the weird custody battle dttwt and qsmptwt have over bad is so irritating none of u regularly watch him anyway so just shut up 💀💀💀

[bisapnap]

honestly the thing that gets me the most is the infantilization of the younger UK ccs.

no one knows how to criticize these content creators because before they turned 18 they were basically considered untouchable so every discourse topic comes down to either "oh they're a terrible person they need to be deplatformed immediately" or "oh they didn't know it's ok :(( guys they're still a baby they didn't know better!"

and it makes it really hard to talk about when one of them actually does something shitty! it is OKAY to be critical of a content creator!

[sandsofdteam-moved]

yeah George is right at the end of the thread, giving attention to these kinds of clips constantly is just Not Constructive in any way, shape, or form. I get wanting apologies but people get their undies in a twist over things that were privated or deleted or just flat out old, essentially things people KNOW are bad and have taken the time to distance themselves from. I’ve literally watched dteam change their joke style and become better people in the last 2 years as fans have shown them that the shit they’ve learned from worse gaming spaces in the past are offensive at best and incendiary at worst for those already down the pipeline.

I think it’s stupid for anyone to delude themselves into thinking more shit isn’t going to come out, since the global elite rank we laud George for means he’s sat in 2014 cs:go lobbies for an unfathomable number of hours. If you’d grown up in gaming spaces before that, all those lobbies will do is solidify the shitty rhetoric and attitude more, and the mc pvp scene wasn’t (n honestly still isn’t) that pretty either, which is where we know most of the munchy crew comes from. More shit about them will come out, I’m sure of it, but George and Sap have been at the front lines of seeing Dream be publicly lambasted for every single wrong he’s ever committed, regardless of its actual weight, so they’ve in turn changed too. Nearly every actual controversy the dt have been in and apologized for recently have been for things that are not public because they know they were wrong, and have grown as people from it.

I understand that people are upset and it takes a hot sec to reflect on but the 2010s gaming space was not the comparatively utopian space we have now, even in the minecraft youtube community. The things we see show up about all of them were just things people said. Doesn’t make it right, doesn’t defend them from lacking the common sense to not say those things, but the average gamer gave much less of a shit about who they could be hurting when they’re going for maximum damage on an opponent’s psyche to win. If that means throwing around slurs and racism and misogyny no one gaf as long as they won. Unlearning that is difficult, considering how kneejerk of a reaction it is for people (just look at sap’s last ‘aids’ comment and his immediate apology and regret), but dnf who have seemingly distanced themselves from fps lobbies where this is more common have very obviously made conscious changes that show they’re better. (This isn’t to say it’s sap’s fault either, he just happens to like the mechanics of fps games where this behavior is unfortunately still prevalent in the player base)

All these public manhunts do is hurt more people, and the more attention we as a community bring to them the more likely they are to be spread around in bad faith aka hurting dt’s reputation instead of wanting clarification on them being better. I get wanting apologies, I do, but sometimes it’s better to leave things in the past and make a decision for yourself about if you think a content creator has changed. We don’t know them, but imo the things they present publicly nowadays simply don’t reflect the same person in those clips, same goes for someone like Phil who had 10+ year old clips dug up solely to add him to a cancel thread about sbi. The more attention we give to things like this the more frequently they’re likely to get dug up and the more people are going to get hurt from behavior that has changed.

Idk I think the proper mindset is to face the fact they were shitty people in the past, likely including their first few months as content creators under their current names. But their audience has taught them so much and their regard for what they say has changed substantially and for the better, so why drag them back to where they used to be? How can people be encouraged to change their beliefs if the only thing that they receive in exchange is the fact that they were a bad person hung over their head forever? If they’ve truly changed and learned, the guilt is already there. If you decree their actions were too much, leave of your own accord. Putting his foot down was the best possible thing to do in a situation like this, making sure that people are aware there’s more stuff likely out there, but discouraging using someone’s past, which is often deeply buried under privacy measures, to define them.

[alittledizzy]

Dream's activity yesterday makes me think that we're headed back to normality. Sapnap posted his first TikTok in ages, which I think is indicative of him actually trying to get back on the grind. Now we just need a sign of life from George... though to be honest I'm fine with him giving it a little more time. I am guessing the first step back will come through one of Sapnap's streams or if Dream actually posts a video. Maybe in Sapnap's snapchats if he actually goes through it it, considering he should be back in Florida soon. But I miss my cat so much and I'm trying to be patient but... I need to see him to know he's okay.

[jestbee]

At the end of the day that young girl is clearly very angry, and hurt, and wants to move on and I think going over and over the specifics isn't going to do anyone any favours. Everyone has said their piece now, the chips have fallen where they have, lets just let everyone rest.

[dodgebolts]

hannah saying people being negative and mean about her after the last event made her sad I’m literally going to kill everyone

[jonstarks]

found this on thg and whatever their prequel called parallel post and it remind me with one of my fave duo from that chair show

look at them dead eyes lol

[ingravinoveritas]

I just need to talk about this one little moment from the Ireland AM interview yesterday. It went by so quickly, but I had several folks DMing me about it, so I thought it was worth mentioning.

It was the "we looked like a Christmas card" and "Our Christmas card" that struck me so particularly here. It would've made sense if Michael had said "The set was so beautiful that it looked like a Christmas card," but he said "we" instead. As if David was a very specific, notable part of what gave the set the atmosphere it had. And with the "our Christmas card," I wasn't even sure if Michael realized what he said, at first, but if you watch the second gif, it looks like he said it without even thinking and then caught himself a few seconds later.

So could he and David be sending out Christmas cards together? Who knows. This could certainly just be me reading too much into things, but then you have the interview from today with Michael and David talking about Aziraphale and Crowley going onto a date and immediate shifting into talking in the first person ("I"/"we"), as if they are talking about themselves, and it's just the cumulative effect of them doing this over and over that really makes you wonder...

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

Double Trouble for the bingo thing.

of course!

[gailiag]

So excited for SMN in 7.0 Sure, they probably won't fix any of the issues the job actually has but they ARE giving us another BIG FUCKOFF DRAGON that looks COOL AS SHIT and I for one am so on board.