#empathy for the devil

[marvelandponder]

See you Friday, Rainbooms...

[bevinbrand]

Just realized I haven't posted any of the official art for Empathy For the Devil. It's funny for me to look at the evolution of my art style over the course of the years I spent on it, especially the chapter title cards (all credit for the lettering goes to @marvelandponder ).

The difference two years can make, am I right? Anyway, just feeling nostalgic and realizing I should actually put some of this up here, probably. As always, no not copy, steal, edit, re-post, plagiarize, or otherwise use without permission. NO AI.

[themarvelhorse]

EftD Chapter 12 – Return of the She-Demon Part 1/4

Are we so back? Well not really since this thing has been in the works for around a year now and I've been chipping away at it. Of course, it's always nice getting back into it, cause I remember how much I still enjoy it, but... c'est la vie.

This is part 1 of 4! I've broken it up into 10 page increments according to the Word doc I've been writing this on. I've qeued them to release daily at 2:30 PM EST.

I’d like to preface this by saying that there are some other thoughts I want to keep in mind about Chapter 11.

Sunset’s refusal to talk about the relationships between her friends and girlfriend has might’ve actually saved them all. With Sombra listening to the whole thing, it makes him unaware of any specifics that could’ve been used against them.  

So, the lesson here is: DON’T TRAUMA DUMP! ESPECIALLY NOT TO YOUR THERAPIST.

Or don’t reveal everything about yourself at the first opportunity. Even therapists have their own thoughts, opinions, and ways of doing things. If you aren’t compatible with them, then you just need to move on and find a new one.

Return of the She-Demon

First off, these chapter titles have just been throwing me way off. I was expecting something totally different with each chapter and it subverts my expectations every time. Nope! It wasn’t really Sunset. And apparently also not the only she-demon around!

Also, it’s a mite harder to comment on these pics since discord took everything back. But now at least I got the books, including a colour copy!

Looking at the title card Bevin drew… whew! Very spooky. Love the font there for “Return”, gives it the feeling of those classic horror movies, or Martin Mystery TV show in my case cause I’m too easily spooked by regular horror movies most of the time. Also the use of the black and white is a nice touch. I like to think that, with the way the words flow, “Return” is white, but “of the”, was fried to a blackened crisp by the She-Demon (Shemon?)’s hair. And then of course “She-Demon” engraved on her… grave (is that where engrave came from?). It makes it feel like the conflict between the black and white, the yin and yang, the two sides of Sunset’s self where she is both a devil and an angel, full of possibilities! And yet… “She-demon” is what’s engraved. That’s how she’ll be remembered and judged. Or so we’re teased into believing. And everyone is faceless in the background. Mind-controlled teenage zombies, or simply the crowd that merges into a giant shadow, the true singular enemy of Sunset being the masses that she can’t individually explain herself to, or help en masse. That is of course, unless she gets rid of what’s causing all their problems – herself.

Sunset was able to convince Wallflower she wasn’t a bad person, but everyone at CH? Like what happened in the first chapter? Difficult to do so through a speech. And overwhelming to try with a series of one on ones, like Solstice was doing.

I also like what I see as the implication that, the she-demon was hiding behind the grave the whole time. Like Sunset’s been worried about being remembered as a She-demon. Once it’s finally time to reveal herself, the She-demon climbs up from the back and down the grave. She wasn’t buried there; she was lying in wait. And the demon climbing down from the top references Sunset’s descent into hell. The demon was always there, waiting for the opportunity to strike, to let Sunset’s fears take over. Demon Shimmer wanted power. And yet, is it not an exercise of power, to take the decision-making away the people who are most affected by those decisions? Is the decision to close the portal and abandon her friends without even partaking in even informing them of that intent – not an exercise of power over someone else? Is that not what the demon wanted, when she wanted to control an army of teenagers against their will? Both actions which hurt all parties in the end? A self-fulfilling prophecy. To love is to turn around, Orpheus. To love is to fear losing something. And to act out in such a way to avoid losing it, that you ultimately cause said loss. A tragedy of Shakespearean proportions. Or it would have been if Flash died.

Sunset Shimmer was a shadow of her former self. Her own grieving breathing filled her ears. Reedy. Gasping. She couldn’t see ahead of her, only as far as she could reach. Sunset staggered forward. She grabbed blindly. Reaching. Until she found the handle of the door to run, to stop King Sombra, to leave this dimension through the portal for the last time and to never look back.

Love this. I mean it’s the perfect use of the term “shadow of her former self” considering everything. She literally felt like she was dying (which, to my surprise, she’s actually dying. I thought she was just feeling like it when she endured this strange swap and had a close encounter with this evil demon!). And this shadow, it signals what we find out later – that it’s her soul (or whatever’s been swapped through different bodies).

Her breath is reedy – it’s thin, and fragile. And you can’t get much thinner than a shadow (or maybe even fragile, considering how easy it is for a shadow to break from what it is at any given time). And she cannot see, the shadows are all around her. And being unable to see in front of her is reminiscent of her life as of late. Whereas, before she could see her future decades ahead, with everything planned out. Now it’s culminating in that sense of missing purpose and being so uncertain of what the future holds. The only thing she could try to predict was that she would stop King Sombra and close the portal. Because it’s either that or the death of herself/her friends.

And the grieving in her breathing – she’s mourning the loss of herself. She can sense the impending doom.

And of course she doesn’t want to look back. She’s been having such trouble lately looking back at what her life was supposed to be with Celestia. She doesn’t want to look back at what her life could have been with Twilight and the other Rainbooms. But damn, that part about ‘never looking back’, those specific words cut so much deeper since that’s what pains Timber so much. That when everyone leaves for the summer, no matter how close they got to him, they just never look back.

She opened it. Sunset tried to run to the portal and tumbled off the edge. Plummeting, her mind raced to explain the wind whipping around her. Her vision cleared to see the counselling office door frame suspended in isolation above her dress shoes and shrinking up and away. Screaming in someone else’s voice, Sunset anticipated a crushing splatting pain unlike any she’d ever survived. She twisted and grasped at empty air. The fall lasted so much longer than she could stand and happened so much faster than she could think.

Love this too. It caught me so off guard, but then that description of it all made me visualize it so well. It reminds us that Sunset’s still in Solstice’s body. She didn’t go get changed at Rarity’s yet, and it’s someone else’s voice. But Bevin’s art here makes it so that we get to see Sunset enduring this. We get to see these two sides – the actual body she’s in and her real soul. We don’t see her face – we don’t’ see her identity, because she doesn’t know who she is. This whole story is very much a loss and regaining of identity, and all these title cards never show her without an identity crisis going on, so we never see just her, with her real face. And the way her hair is drawn, like a ball of fire with tongues of flame still reaching up. The Phoenix may yet rise again.

Her body hit the ground and the sound echoed in the high chambers around her. The closest comparison she could make was the sound of someone slamming the dumpster door in the alley outside her apartment.

A great comparison! Recognizable to most people, but in Sunset’s context, it’s relatable. She might be thinking of herself as trash, as negative self-talk often does to us. And since she’s trash, she’s just waiting for the garbage people to take her out. It also makes me realize that her beating the trashcans outside her apartment would also be a metaphor for how she beats herself up all the time. That and the realization that she probably vandalized those cans so bad they had to replace them with a dumpster lmao.

Where was the earth-shattering ka-boom?

This fuckin’ line. Just can’t help but smirk at that XD

Standing, Sunset screamed when she found two large, leathery, batlike wings extending from new holes in her leather jacket. Red, like they’d been badly burned.

Ayyy. The demon aspect of herself is now part of her ‘look’! The security blanket is now an insecurity blanket! And also red and burned, like they’d flown too close to the Sun.

A sense of doom pressed down on her. Equestria… my friends… they’re all in danger now. I put them in danger. I’m dangerous—No, stop it, that isn’t helping. I have to… I have to create a counter-spell to whatever fear magic he cursed on me. How do I do that from inside the curse?

Glad to know she’s catching herself in her catastrophizing and the negative self-talk.

Looking around, she was met with great rocky chambers. The cool, sealed-in air this far under the earth made her lungs feel snug in her chest, as if they’d gotten stuck in a narrow passageway. The most she could hear was the dripping of water from great hanging stalactites to their stalagmite brethren below: drool off the chops of a snaggle-toothed beast immortalized mid-bite Only the occasional far off echo reached her, and by the time it got to her, she couldn’t tell who or what could have made those noises. All else was lost to darkness.

We bring it back to that gaping maw from the last chapter. Previously ready to slam shut, now frozen here… for now.

Very much enjoying this prose here as well. The situation itself makes it feel like the traditional hell, being literally beneath the earth, and is probably among those notions of what Sunset imagines it to be, except there is no heat. Not yet I suppose. Sunset herself being filled with a fire, both figurative and literal in the magical sense. What would be hell for a fire creature? Someplace cold, where there is little oxygen to feed off of, where there’s water, and where she can be snuffed out in an instant when the maw slams shut. And of course, there’s those final bits. That unsettling feeling where the mind plays tricks on you. Who or what else could or would be down here? Is it worse to know you’re alone? Or to know that you’re not alone? And of course, the all-consuming darkness – where no light can penetrate.

She struggled, claustrophobia setting in. Don’t be scared! Stop! You’re letting him win!

Okay Ms. Only-Thing-To-Fear-is-Fear-Itself, ya got claustrophobia. No wonder she’s afraid of all these beasts able to clamp their jaws down shut on her.

The claustrophobia is also a symptom of her fear of being trapped and tied down. She likes the feeling of power, because with that comes freedom. That's the essence of what she wants, but she's afraid of it when it's within reach. Holding any sort of power in Equestria is complicated because it would be tied to your cutie mark and destiny and all that. Not necessarily freedom for Sunset, but perhaps as close to it as you’ll get with all those resources behind you. The freedom that she gets in the human world is different. It’s not attached to fate or power in the same way as in Equestria. The connection between freedom and power shows that she’s afraid of others having power over her, leading to this claustrophobia where she’s not strong or has power enough to free herself. She doesn’t want to give information about herself to Solstice, even for therapy, because it requires giving him the power to destroy her.

“Whisper a dangerous secret to someone you care about. Now they have the power to destroy you, but they won't. This is what love is.” – Welcome to Night Vale

Or at least, love by one person’s perspective.

And someone reminded me she didn’t like hospitals. Something about the power of life and death in the hands of some random person you don’t know? Yeesh.

Unrelated, but I was thinking about how Sunset carries the weight of the sun on her shoulders. At first I thought of it as a variation of her carrying the weight of the world, purely for that reason that it ponyfies it and makes it clear she's taking on a role to support Celestia (and take her place despite Sunny believing it was to rule next to her).

But calling it that - weight of the sun - led me to reconsider it as truly contextual and not just a saying.

Because ultimately, that's what Sunset is doing to Twilight.

It's her sun now, that she wants Twilight to carry the weight of. Sunset never told Twilight that she wanted her to carry on leadership of the Rainbooms in her stead. With Princess Celestia retiring, the very idea that her pupils were being groomed to actually take over the throne instead of leading beside her would lead SciTwi to undergo some of the same problems.

While for Princess Twilight, Princess Celestia has been there to help her understand her new role, still being available for guidance, Sunset didn't have that. She had an abrupt disruption to her upbringing, suddenly lacking a mentor when all her life she had mentors.

With SciTwi, it might go any direction. Sunset was going to leave when things weren't settled between SciTwi and Timber, and even though she has Principal Celestia and her friends. She has no one to consult on magic. So if Sunset’s belief that the magic would leave when she did was false, there’d be problems. Who is she to confide in when you're supposed to lead a team of magic superheroes? No one else has that expertise.

“There is no escape,” a new voice told her. “No solace or new worlds. No refuge. Nowhere left to run.”

Whoops! Those plans are down the drain. No emotional escape.

Princess Luna emerged in deep blue robes, just as much of a giantess as her sister beside her. Her eyes burned, too: a pale moonbeam glow. Sunset could hear inversions of the younger princess’s laugh bouncing from far-off rock, a nightmarish sound that haunted her dreams as a foal.

I suppose being raised to fear NMM really fucks you up, huh? Must be a part of it to truly believe you’ll need to wage war one with her one day.

My friends are in more danger the longer I’m here. Sunset gripped her hands into fists and assumed a battle-ready stance. “I know you’re not real. You can’t scare me. I’m not weak.

And here’s that bit about her claiming she’s not weak. To be weak is to lack power. And she’s afraid of lacking power enough to save her friends. But she’s afraid of it taking herself over too.

“Your strength has no bearing here. You have no fights left to win or lose, runaway,” Princess Twilight’s voice apologized. She, too, came out of the darkness with eyes lit by harmonic light, but unlike the others, she stood in mourning by a large hourglass engraved with Sunset’s full name. The sand had long since stopped its fall, still. At rest. “Your destiny ran its course. This is your destination. You’ve reached your Time’s End.”

That second sentence – it’s a noun of course. Princess Twi’s calling her a runaway. But having it preceded by the talk of fighting also makes it sound like an accusation. Sunset’s faced a fight she’s struggled to win, a fight against a lack of fate, and against her role in the world for having brought magic here. She’s a runaway for having run from Celestia, and a runaway for wanting to leave the human world again. She didn’t win or lose because she wasn’t going to stay and fight. She’d rather run than risk losing. Risk being seen as weak and powerless. Risk being trapped. Her power is also found in her friends, who aren’t here :c

Shaking her head took more effort than she thought it should. The energy she’d normally have in excess, renewed each night by sleep and each day by the joys of life with her friends, was running low. Rigor mortis stiffened her cold body. “No…”

And here, it describes how she literally found energy, which could become strength and power, in her friends. She found it in Celestia too, in some way or another, but she left and lost that feeling. And of course, it made her feel powerless in the human world.

“N-no, my body’s still up there,” Sunset said, choking, shivering. The heat in her bones drained. “A demon stole my body, he’s using it to⁠—” “Shhh…” Princess Celestia bent a wing down to cup Sunset’s cheek, almost cooing. “What you want to go back to doesn’t belong to you anymore. Your body is an instrument now, just not yours. The ruined coronation? The lost lives? The prison sentence in the castle dungeons? That, too, is destined.”

It really all works too well to have the Fates here ‘stealing’ the Princesses bodies, when earlier everyone was just accidentally swapping. And yet, Princess Fate Celestia here is outright telling her what does and doesn’t belong to her and everyone else. That sentence about ‘what you want to go back to doesn’t belong to you anymore’ is just the cherry on top. Of course she’s not talking about Sunset’s body entirely. She’s talking about everything else. Her role as heir, her choice to leave the human world thus resulting in her not having a say about anything that goes on there anyway.

Straightening, Princess Celestia smiled down at her. “Oh, little sun, no. Bodies are earthly things. Your soul’s time has ended.”

Body and soil are one, rather than body and soul. And that is evident here, as throughout the story.

Shaking her head, Sunset trembled in her refrigerated body. “... take me back. I want to go back.”

Throughout the text up to this point, Sunset’s inner fire has died out. The coldness of the cave slowly creeping in, her motivation, strength, and power slowly faded like the fireworks, and now she’s feeling refrigerated. Good shit.

“There is no turning back, it’s over now,” the Fate Luna said. “No return.” “No restart,” Fate Twilight said.

No rogue-like dungeon to traverse and keep trying. No extra lives. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200. Your body goes directly to jail. Your soul goes to Tartarus. How do manage to achieve double jail? Somehow, Sunset did it.

“I want my life back. I’m not done yet,” Sunset said, voice pinching her throat. The air was harder to draw.

What’s there to be done? Close the portal? You gave up that life anyway. Fluttershy’ll look after the pets it’ll be fine.

But then, Sunset Shimmer would never graduate with her friends. She’d never shake the principals’ and the counsellor’s hands at the podium, and dammit, what if she never got that second tattoo? What if she never made love to her girlfriend, or watched her win awards and go to college, and what if they would’ve gotten married?

She’d never get to meet who her friends would become. She’d never see the world or find her purpose in it. Or make a family. Or go back home, and call it that, and tell Princess Celestia everything that went without saying between them because what if it didn’t go without saying? What if she could’ve had a mom? What if she had a family?

Oh right, all that. All her dreams died too.

Being presented with something that takes away all this choice and opportunity, making you realize that you will no longer have that option, is sometimes the wake-up call you need to realize what you want, and that there’s other things holding you back from actually wanting it to be reality. I’m guilty of this. Nothing like the decision being made for you to make you feel like you lose agency and actually want it.

…

Goddamnit.

I just had a horrifying revelation.

I’m a fuckin’ cat.

Do you want to go out? YES!

Actually no I want to come back in.

NO WAIT I WANT TO GO OUTSIDE!

Oh right, we were talking about Sunset.

YEAH SO Sunset wanting to shake the principals’ and Solstice’s hand (you need to give that back first, silly!) solidifies her positive opinion of him! But also, how all her hopes and dreams grow from the near term to the far future. Those things that she actually wants to achieve and make happen – she wants to make Luna, Celestia, and Solstice proud. She wants to get a little something for herself that she can also be proud of in that tattoo, and make love to Twi. She has some immediate goals and goals she can reach with a little hard work and effort. And it snowballs from the former to the latter. How so much of it is rooted in those relationships she was just about to abandon.

And it admits all the things she never admitted she wanted. Because it went without saying, didn’t it? It was assumed. But if she couldn’t admit it to herself, could it have really gone without saying? Because it wasn’t clear until now, especially since she was willing to give it all up.

They saw everything. At first, slow and in order, then at a terrible speed, the noises blaring all at once in the caverns around her.

The sound of it reminded her of every voice she’d heard when Flash projected her feelings onto the school, and in return, she heard everyone’s thoughts. Loud, complex, and incomprehensible.

Funny that this particular memory is included here. I wonder what it means specifically to have it in this chapter and not anywhere else ;)

Also funny that she encountered this and was presented with such, even though it was incomprehensible. It’s an indication of what the Fates know. And she’s afraid of their judgement. Just as it was when this occurred at the beginning of the story. She was afraid of everyone’s judgement.

The only noise she could pick out beneath it all was a steady booming thud. A heartbeat.

She’s still alive. Her body’s still alive.

Then, a final memory: collapsing onto the floor of the counselling office in the body of Solstice Shiver, the snow and cold avalanching onto her until she shut her eyes and⁠— Darkness. Quiet.

Aaaand not anymore…

I can see this being part of her foalhood  fears that led her to Celestia – the loneliness and fear of being alone with her thoughts.

Luna’s nightmare laugh echoed around her and Sunset trembled out in the open.

And then bringing it all back with her Luna as Nightmare Moon, that which she feared as a child and growing up in order to actually win that war. The one who would not have been gentle in her judgement.

“Interesting...” the Fate Princess Celestia hummed, like a counsellor writing notes. “This was not the End designed for you.”

Just like her last living experience. It presents Celestia – the goodness projected onto her, and how she feels about Solstice being a good guy. Her attitude towards counselling has definitely changed. And also how delving deep into someone’s mind might feel. She did have the idea that going to counselling would mean being so judged by said counsellor that she’d be thrown in jail. And here it is manifesting, only worse.

The Fate masked as Princess Luna angled her head strangely. “Disturbing,” she agreed. “Unseen. Unknown.”

The unknown that follows darkness of the night~

“I see... many unknowns,” the Fate Princess Twilight gasped. “No future! No path! A destiny forsaken!”

Not reassuring for someone used to having a destiny. But at least a little bit reassuring to know that even the Fates themselves don’t know what the fuck is up with Sunset, and it’s not her fault if she doesn’t know either.

“No matter,” Princess Celestia told them, a wing raised. “Judgement has been passed. Sunset Shimmer, for your cruelty, pride, wrath, hunger for power and desire to rule the world, and the burdens wrought on those around you by your hand, your true nature is… wicked. You are sentenced to the Pits of Tartarus.”

And here, despite Celestia being the sorrowful good cop, is the one to list out her crimes and sentencing. Sunset’s true fear of letting down the one she looks up to the most.

Princess Luna bent her neck the other way, summoning more of that laughter. “I sense… an empathetic heart. Kindness, humility, understanding. Relinquished power. Burdens lifted. Intentions good and true. Love for others and self-sacrifice. Hero.” She righted her head. “Your true nature is… righteous. Elysium awaits your arrival.”

And then Fate!Luna here, having been the bad cop is saying that Sunset deserves paradise and has been redeemed. Not what you want, but really, its what you need – to hear from someone who’s also been through it all, to validate you and say you’re decent, from Redeemed Luna.

“So… which is it?” Sunset looked above and below her, at clouds and flames, her mind racing. “What am I?” All eyes cast towards Princess Twilight.

Asphodel for ye! Not great, not terrible.

The Fate stalked the ground, pacing. Her hoofsteps clacked and the caverns’ echoic acoustics spoke legends of their importance. Princess Twilight paced in one direction, then the other. “I see fear and... complexity. I sense a fate escaped, a mark forgotten. I see suffering caused, but also reform and healing. I see a world of undiscovered purpose. Young powder kegs, fuses lit by otherworldly magic. And I see… a world never meant for this. No fates written! No Sunset Shimmer! Invented portals! Invented lives!” Princess Twilight buried her head in her hooves. “I sense… no resolution.”

Regarding the ‘mark forgotten’… Sunset did get a tattoo of Celestia’s cutie mark, and not her own. Even though she may have considered getting a second tattoo. Could that be her own cutie mark? She has it on her clothes, but it’s part of her ‘look’. She could set that aside at any time. She can set aside ‘who she is’ at any time.

Funny how Fate!Celestia mentions hunger for power and desire to rule the world. Celestia was the one who led her on that path. And then Luna emphasizes power relinquished. Giving all that (and her later evil high school version) up. Fate!Twilight describes it as fate escaped. It was her fate to rule Equestria, and have all that power. It was her fate to do so because she continued to try to achieve it in the human world, but eventually abandoned that part of herself, and her desire for power and fate with it. It makes sense given that the Fates were essentially supposed to outline everyone’s fate, and that would have been weaved into a pony’s cutie mark. The fact that Sunset went into the human world where that isn’t a thing in the same way means they don’t have the bearing on Sunset’s ultimate fate as they believed they would. It’s just on her jacket. She can choose to put it on, or take it off. To take on that destiny, or not.

“I’m righteous and wicked. I’ve got the potential for both!” Sunset laughed in her chains. She let the sound of it fill the chambers at Time’s End. “I am both. An angel, a demon, a bad girl, a best friend—and I fuck up. A lot. I’m stubborn, I’m scared of the dark inside myself and people knowing it's there, and I don’t know how to deal with my feelings even after helping everyone else with theirs. And I also do a lot of good! I’m a little kinder, more empathetic, and more loving every day.” A smile pushed upon her lips. “But, my friends know all that already.”

*sob* YOU GO GIRL

Sunset smirked. “Yeah, but... that’s the life I chose. I’m not the pony destined to save Equestria and maybe... that’s… maybe that’s okay.” Floating in a chamber at the end of time never felt so wide open. Scarily empty, but also free. One of those maybe things. “I can go my own way. I’m a regular old unicorn not destined for anything anymore. I’m a mess of contradictions and accidents and choices I get to make! That’s what makes me so cool,” she said, letting them in on a secret. Her secret weapon. “I’m human, too.”

YEEAAAAAH

And now, the formerly claustrophobic cave, still a chamber (both a room and a place of judgment!), now feels open and free! And the secret weapon being that’s what it’s like being human, and she’s accepting that she has this human side, along with all that comes with it <3

Rebelling against the Fates, Sunset broke the chains holding her back. She flipped them off while she was at it. A very human thing to do, she decided. The Fates did not appreciate that very human gesture.

HEHEHE

[smallcrystals]

LOOK WHAT CAME IN THE MAILLLL

[loumandforyou]

proof that they were together in the past or... it could all mean nothing

[dragonymango]

[marvelandponder]

Romance exists in my story, but it's way more about friendship and mental health!

Body Swap™ movies would be SO much cooler of they didn't follow the same formulaic of "Oh no, I've fallen in love in this person's body oh nooooooooo"

if ANYONE, and I do mean ANYONE has any Body Swap™ story that isn't revolving around romance, lemme know!

[constantlyfeelsick]

It is ironic to me when people mischaracterise Dante as "abusive, mean, cold" (in the case of the 2007 anime) because even in DMC2 (which missed the mark on his character), the one thing that stayed true to Dante's character is his kindness. I will admit, the coin flipping is a bit odd, but it's the fact that it's double-sided because he'll accept the job no matter what.

This is basically all the say that even though I have very low expectations for the netflix DMC anime and no respect for adi shankar, it will hurt if they leave out his kindess and generosity. Especially because adi has supposedly played all the games and read the books, how are you going to immerse yourself that much into a character but completely miss the point of them???

[rouge-fauna]

Tommy says dream has no empathy or guilt and here dream is listening to all these sad songs about losing people and how he won't forget and he' said on stream about how he wants to talk to Tommy. How does Tommy not realize how much Dream cares. Dream wouldn't be this emotional if he didn't care

huh it's almost like Tommy is lying or something... crazy... lol XD. To be honestly, I don't think Tommy gives a shit. I mean I reiterate - the last time Dream was massively hated by the internet, him and his loved ones were put in serious danger and yet Tommy posted a video telling people Dream was a "proper movie villain" knowing exactly what could happen. Like how can you say you were ever Dream's friend, like what?! Course not too bad of a movie villain to still make profit off of all the vidoes Dream is in on his channel... honesty I don't get the impression Dream doesn't have empathy, he shows how much he cares about other people all the time, I more so wonder whether Tommy does. Because the way he just uses people to build his brand no matter how harmful or hurtful is wild to me…. In other words, I think Dream clocked it in his video that Tommy doesn’t actually feel the way he says. That he knows his fans hate Dream and is playing into that. I don’t think he can reasonably believe the things he says about Dream, unless he’s some delusional maniac, because ain’t no way you actually think Dream is unempathetic, or that he harassed your mom over a few polite messages or is a “proper movie villain.” That’s just insane…

[marvelandponder]

Since Sunset thought about marrying Twilight eventually in eftd, do you think that she'd be the one to propose?

Ooo, fun!! I'll caveat my answer by saying since they're in high school in EFTD, they're a long ways out from marriage or proposals. I think Sunset’s estimation that they'd have to wait a while into their 20s is probably fairly accurate

That said, if I'm thinking ahead, yeah, probably, but they both consider being the one to do it. Sunset beats Twilight to the punch. She's just more action-oriented, more fuck it we ball. Twilight is in her head for months, maybe years about it. While I think she makes a lot of strides with her anxiety, I do think she'd be prone to overthinking it to the point of perfectionistic procrastination. Thinking about it while cuddled up on the couch, or agonizing over locations and timing and what if this happened? What if she says no???

Sunset makes a plan that's good enough once she's got the funds for it and goes after what she wants. I can't see her not going for it

How exactly it happens, who's to say? I wanna say their friends are somehow involved though. They may also know that Twilight had plans in the works. Rarity may have been dying at the romance of it all, and bursting wanting to tell them both. Pinkie, as we know, does not do well with having to keep big secrets - but she's good with planning logistics in a way that Sunset just isn't

Sunset may have been nervous as hell but she played it off well. Her cool girl facade still comes in handy sometimes

P.S.

I don't think Sunset finds out that Twilight was intending to propose to her right away. I think she finds out later, and it delights her

"What were you going to do?"

Twilight blushes. "Oh, it's not important now, really. Your proposal was perfect."

"C'mon you can't just say that and expect me not to ask. If you had to propose to me, how would you do it? I wanna know!"

"... Well, um, I may have made a few different ways."

"You thought of multiple proposals? How long were you thinking about it?"

"It's nothing! You did such a good job!"

"No more holding out on me. That's the deal."

"Okay! I Twilight'ed! I Twilighted all over the place! For months! I was thinking about it two years ago and I made all these hypotheticals and plans, and some of them were really good, but I thought I'd only get one shot, a-and I didn't want to mess it up - how awful would that have been? Then you'd have to tell our grandchildren about the time I fumbled proposing to you - or worse, what if you said no and my entire plan for our lives was just--just gone! Poof!"

"You dork. I wouldn't have said no."

"I know, but... I wasn't certain."

"I would never have said no."

[themarvelhorse]

EftD Chapter 12 – Return of the She-Demon Part 4/4

This one has a few bonus thoughts at the end.

Sunset nodded, switching her gaze between the pin-pricks drowning in magic in her girlfriend’s eyes and the rings of fire surrounded by blackened, burnt out death in her best friend’s. “Whatever you need to do or say. We’ll be right here for you.”

Oh? Is this burnt out death also a reference to mental/emotional burnout? Trying to do too much for too many people?

Cinder shook his head. “Fuck,” he said, and, “I’m sorry.” and “It’s not your fault. I’m just so tired of everyone saying they’ll be there and then disappearing out of my life, but this really isn’t your fault.” His chest flared, but his eyes reached for hers. He shook his head. “I don’t blame you. I still think you’re a great person.” “I know, but… I’m sorry,” she said like she’d never meant anything more. Like it would kill her if she didn’t take care of his feelings one last time. “I’m so, so sorry. You deserve everything you have with Flash, and I’m so excited that you’ll both finally get to have that. Please let him take you to the mall.”

…

Midnight nodded, finally smiling like Cinder wanted. “Thanks.” She stood with him a moment longer. “It was good while it lasted, right? When we broke up, I tried really hard to focus on that. I wanted so desperately to be at peace with it all, in a wise beyond my years sort of way, I guess. I wanted my friends to be proud of me for moving on so well. I don’t know why I thought grieving properly was some life accomplishment I needed to check off. But I didn’t know how to just move on. I’ve never lost someone before.

Twilight’s always had people in her life. They grow farther apart but they also always come back. There’s a decent chance that she never saw them leave and not come back with the same relationship they had before. Or maybe it would have happened slowly. Cadence telling Twilight that she was now essentially going to be her sister-in-law changed the relationship, and Twilight didn’t see it coming or know how to react. With Timber, she didn’t know how to react when things ended. She didn’t know she had to grieve something that was lost.

“Sunset helped so much⁠—more than I can ever say, honestly. I really don’t want to know where I’d be now without her, so I guess that’s why it was so comforting to see you and Flash together. I need you to be okay without me,” Midnight told him…

Where the empathy falls short! Twilight has anxiety, even getting Spike as a service dog. Was Timber ever diagnosed with anything? Could he have been, being so far from the city? It was always about taking care of Camp Everfree and looking out for his sister. He had a similar sense of loneliness to Twilight and Sunset too, what with Twilight’s family always being away so often. But as mentioned before, they always came back. There’s definitely a risk of becoming a Weddings and Funerals family, but Twilight didn’t know that was a problem or see that happening. Despite a shared feeling of loneliness, Twilight couldn’t recognize it, or see the nuance in how it might be different from Timber’s situation. For Timber, hardly anyone ever came back. So, Twilight came into this with that sense that she would see Timber again because her family always did. Timber’s didn’t. And neither did his friends. There was no indication that it wouldn’t happen even again with Flash. Because, well… have you ever been in a relationship that didn’t end?

So Twilight is asking Timber to trust her, and give it a chance just one more time to believe that they can truly be friends again, that Twilight won’t go away.

And that’s just ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

…changing back into the girl he lost before his eyes. The magic swirled around her, fading into the stormy sky above until she was just Twilight. “Please, please promise you’ll try. I think it’s the best chance we have at being okay with each other again.”

Twilight changing back when she mentions how she recalls the feeling of peace she felt with Sunset at her side and Flash at Timbers. She remembers that there’s hope they’ll be okay.

“We stopped talking in our relationship, and more than anything, I really think that’s what drove us apart. It scared me. I didn’t feel like I could talk to you about anything anymore. So I didn’t.” Twilight wiped fumblingly underneath her glasses and tried to smirk. “But I don’t need us to talk about everything. I think space is healthy, boundaries are good. They don’t mean goodbye. Sometimes they just mean see you later.”

…. “Please just say goodbye if that’s what this is. I get it.” He grasped at the gaping scar in his chest. The flames ate at him. “This is me. It’s always going to be me. And anybody who gets close enough is bound to see it. Nobody else should have to deal with that, especially when they can’t. I don’t blame you for needing to go.”

HNNNNNNNNNNNGH

THE SCAR IN HIS HEART. THE PAIN DEEP INSIDE! IT CONSUMES AND OVERCOMES YOU AND PREVENTS YOU FROM FOCUSING ON ANYTHING ELSE. PEOPLE GETTING CLOSE AND SEEING WHAT’S INSIDE, THE DEMON INSIDE! THE SELF-SACRIFICE AND DESIRE TO SEE THOSE YOU LOVE JUST BE OKAY, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOU FEEL LIKE YOU’LL FALL APART WITHOUT THEM! THE REGRET FROM FEELING LIKE A BURDEN ON SOMEONE ALREADY SO BURDENED!!!

Twilight took his hands in hers. She considered the knuckles, passing a thumb over them before squeezing. And, even as tears stung at her eyes, she smiled. “Timber? I need to let you go. I do. And I will. That’s what space and time are for when you lose a boyfriend or girlfriend, if we communicate honestly.

Twilight choosing to take care of herself by setting boundaries despite what he’s going through!

“But then, eventually, maybe in a few months from now, when I can start to look at you and not see the boy I kissed at the observatory… I’d really like to see who you are as a friend. I’ve heard good things. I’ve gotta admit, you’ve got me curious.” She shrugged, laughing through her sniffles. “Absolutely tell me if it wouldn’t be okay for you, but for me, I think by then it’d be nice to see an old friend.” Timber’s eyes rose to meet his old best friend. The dark magic drained from his body in a swirling, skyward whirlwind. As soon as it was safe to do so, and he wouldn’t burn her alive, Timber collapsed into Twilight’s hug. Her hand sunk into his curls. His quiet sobs made her hold on tighter. Sunset never thought she’d be so glad to see Timber Spruce hugging her girlfriend.

Timber seeing his old best friend! He’s seeing someone who he never thought he’d have seen ever again, for the first time in a long time! He feels the hope of peace and it turns him back to normal!

Welp. These scenes fucked me up too. Way to go!

Sunset and Flash staggered forward to hug them, too. Sunset laid her head on one of Timber’s shoulders. She narrowly avoided a breakdown when she told him, “Welcome to the family.”

And then they redefine their complicated relationship! Because family can really be anything, and it’s reflective of Twilight’s family, and potentially Sunset’s! Sunset, earlier in this chapter, felt that there was so much potential left in her future, that she could’ve had a mom. At least, she could go back to Celestia and look at her differently, as a mom and not just a teacher. But even if it doesn’t work out, she’ll have had the chance to see her again, like Twilight still can see her own family while they also commit to seeing each other outside of Weddings and Funerals. And Timber gets a bigger family than what he has!

It's funny how family works, honestly. Like, “Ah yes this is my family and this is my boyfriend/girlfriend”

>Get married

“Ah yes this is my family now.”

And then of course there’s the extended family, and this found family right here, there’s the “This person is my elder and my parents value and respect them so they’re now also an auntie/uncle”

In these pictures with Midnight and Cinder finally talking it out, they’re not facing each other, they’re facing ahead. In the earlier picture with Cinder aligned with the direction the snow was falling, we can now see that they both have their backs towards that direction. Lots of y’all know snow makes it really fuckin hard to see shit. So, before this, they were snowblind. The snow, a product of the demon, was purposefully making it hard for them to see each other, to communicate with each other, etc. Just like how shadows and darkness are bad because it conceals the unknown. The snow has concealed Midnight and Cinder’s true feelings from each other. Even now, we see Cinder’s flame now aligned with the snow’s direction. He’s not fighting to hide those negative feelings from Midnight anymore, and instead of destructive expression of those feelings, it’s constructive. It’s accepting that they’re associated with this side of himself. It’s the same with Midnight. Hell, it’s the same for their body language as a whole. The way it’s all aligned with the snowfall. The placement of Midnight’s wings snows that that first line of light before her wings angle up again as is part of her design, the way both character’s body shapes are aligned with it. The way their heads are angled down, and their horns are also about as aligned with the snow as can be reasonably done with the design.

In a sense, it makes me feel that Solstice’s therapist side has rubbed off on Sombra’s magic. Or maybe this is Solstice’s magic. Really it’s both. But I’m wondering how much control each one has over it. But in this way, we can see that Solstice’s profession has influenced the snow – instead of these two fighting against it and using it destructively, they’re using it constructively. It’s bringing them closer together. It has to, because that’s the only way you can really see anything in this kind of storm – is to get close to the thing you’re seeing. And how you survive is by sharing warmth. You have to remove the barriers you’ve put on yourself, the armour, the clothes, and allow yourself to be naked in front of others. To be vulnerable.

We also see where the brightest parts of the picture come from. Midnight’s comes from her “glasses” and horn – her mind. Cinder’s comes from the scar across his chest – his heart. One is more driven by reason, and the other is driven by his heart. She called him both an idiot and a genius, but what drives his actions are his emotions and passion. What drives Midnight has been her rationality. It aligns with the whole science vs. nature thing too (science in this context referring to technological developments undertaken by humanity, nature referring to those baser instincts that drive our action and how we survive). Midnight was able to reason that Timber would have been okay since he had Flash. Cinder was driven by nature and emotion in the way that nature helps organisms evolve – learning from past experiences. And also you know, childhood development, etc. Years of the same thing happening over and over again leads the brain to adjust accordingly. If one only experiences rejection, that’s all they’ll know. Wild animals can get used to humans if they recognize that humans won’t harm them. But this becomes a problem – they become over-reliant and don’t know how to exist independent of people, but also can’t fully be tamed to be pets. Timber, getting used to people coming and going, knows that will happen again. A squirrel or raccoon who enjoys the company of people, but they one day just stop giving that company, will mess them up. And they don’t know how to survive outside that.

Midnight’s used rationality in a similar way. She had to reason that Timber was only going to get hurt, because he was new to all this, and had no experience. No magical defence. But that’s largely surface level. Even when he did get magic, she wanted him to stay away. She has anxiety, she’s afraid of what might happen, of the future. She wants to be able to understand it, know what to expect, maybe get some semblance of control out of that too, kind of like Sunset. Especially since she can’t control Timber. She couldn’t force him to start communicating again for one. And that little moment of Midnight talking about how magic is years of loneliness… deep down she’s also fuelled by emotion.

It's kinda the same with Timber too. It’s logical and rational to assume that the same thing will happen over and over again if nothing else changes.

As it was, Timber, Twilight, and Flash looked demonstrably battered. Cuts and bruises abound. Flash’s shoulder might have reset, but he still clung to it like he needed a splint. Timber’s clothes were all toasted and he’d lost his beanie. Or burnt it to ash. Twilight didn’t even have her bow-tie tied.

Oh my god is Timber naked.

Granted, that shit don’t matter in life/death situations. Unless you see a random wild-eyed naked man running at you without context.

But really, I think this also adds to the whole “Vulnerability thing”. They all no longer have their armour. And also they all have their identity-represented-through-clothes/security blanket, parts of themselves gone.

It hurt Sunset to have to think of her friends that way. It hurt to see them on death’s door and still trying so desperately, so valiantly to come back for round two.

It’s the other end of trying to set boundaries for yourself and taking care of yourself vs. helping out. At least with Sunset, her character’s developed enough to know that, in this moment, she has to push past that idea that she can do the rest of this on her own and not risk her friends’ lives. Gotta do a proper risk assessment first!

And here she is, also doing that leadership thing! Military style. I recall one piece of advice from a General, that he was so well-respected by the people under his command because they knew he never asked them to do something he himself wouldn’t do.

“Our friends,” Timber burbled happily, nodding. At the very least, he appeared to be a contented tired, as if he’d eaten a whole plate of Applejack’s cooking for Harvest Moon dinner. “Gonna take a while for that to sink in. Got you covered as long as my angel’s the wind beneath my wings…”

Emotional exhaustion is still exhaustion! But seems like it was worth it in the end :)

“Hey Timber?” Twilight hissed from the side of her mouth, “Why are you calling attention to yourself? You hardly have any magic left.”

She’s not miffed anymore about him joining the fight now! It’s just that he’s still doing that without being able to take a magic-hit.

Timber leaned over. “Lucky for you, my mouth has a magic of its own.”

You know, Sombra would have lost a lot of height becoming Sunset...

Timber casts Vicious Mockery!

Sunset remembered how it felt to hold the weight of the sun on her shoulders. The strain too heavy to scream for fear of snapping her vocal cords. But more than any sickening weight, the certainty of her own death came back to her. How many people here had Sunset doomed to that certainty? As the students of Canterlot High watched on in horror and Sunset’s friends huddled together, Sunset covered her mouth with a shivering hand.

Slaughterer of hope for a reason.

Yeah, the weight of the world is not a great feeling. Worse is the certainty of witnessing the world fall around you. Catastrophizing is bad, but how much of that is true? How much of that is simply unnecessary anxiety mixed with uncertainty?

But the feeling of the worst actually happening? Of your fears coming true before your eyes? But mixed in there is the belief that the worst is happening because of you? Horrible.

It’s not safe when I’m here. You think I want to leave the only family I’ve ever known?”

AH! And there’s that mention of family again!

The whole school had heard Sunset’s thoughts and felt her feelings not that long ago, and Sunset never realized until now that she’d been figuratively projecting how she thought about those thoughts and feelings onto them, too. She never thought… she never even let herself consider they loved her even with the darkness inside of her. But she was loved so much more than she could ever know.

Ahh yes! Feeling bad about feeling bad! The intent is what’s important right? Not wanting to feel that way signalling intent that you don’t want to be that way.

Sunset cried. She honest-to-Celestia cried in front of her friends and it felt so, so good.

Oh the catharsis. Sometimes the thing you think is so bad, really isn’t so bad after all.

(And then you realize what’s really bad is a core part of yourself that you wear on your sleeve. That represents villainy to others. You’re the villain but not for the reason you thought.)

“Sunset, darling,” Rarity said softly at the end of the world. “Are you alright?” “No,” she told them, laughing as the tears traced down her cheeks. “I’m really, really not.” She latched onto her friends as tightly as she could as the army of teenage shadows advanced.

SHE ADMITS IT!

As mentioned earlier in the chapter, there’s power in knowing something about someone that others don’t. Yet here, we remember how Sunset felt when that happened with the whole of the school. And then it happened again when Sombra told everyone she was going to leave. But Sombra actually alleviated Sunset’s worst fears. That she wouldn’t be accepted for that demon side of herself.

Specifically,

“... I’m stubborn, I’m scared of the dark inside myself and people knowing it's there, and I don’t know how to deal with my feelings even after helping everyone else with theirs.”

Her fears of being vulnerable and deemed evil if she were to ever let her demon self show again, didn’t manifest in reality. The opposite happened. And she would have left thinking otherwise if all this didn’t happen.

Still crying, Sunset focused everything she could on giving her demon self a big, dumb, stupid, Celestia-damned, existentially confusing hug. She was only a little mad that that was good advice. The world spun on the wrong axis. One moment Sunset was with her friends, the next she staggered, trying not to fall, as she stood ten feet tall above the portal. Flames from her hands scorched her alive. And, true to the Fate’s word, Sunset Shimmer died.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I said that before in previous chapters but still

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Something I’m theorizing with Midnight Sparkle – the fact that Rainbow was so pissed at Sunset and was subsequently attacked by Sombra – it was certainly an attack of opportunity. RD exposed herself, made herself vulnerable in a sense as she bared her emotions at their rawest. Uncontrolled, unlike Rarity. And of course, that gave an opening when she was going to give the wake-up punch. But seeing RD not able to pony up after… she suffered emotional damage from that. It’s the allegory, the metaphor of Sombra’s powers inflicting that and also just potentially PTSD. With that in mind though, Twilight and Sunset went to heal RD by trying to understand her pain. What if it went both ways? It did when Sunset was boosted in the first chapter. But what if their attempt to heal RD allowed the negative emotions to transfer from what Blue Fast was feeling to what Twilight was feeling? Maybe Twilight took the brunt of that part and Sunset didn’t. Twilight was probably already feeling that in the first place, but it made it manifest. Timber was also one to stick around, so maybe in some way, that also helped create Cinder.

Something else I’m theorizing… if we call back to Greek myths, we see the relationship between Hades, Persephone, and Demeter. When Persephone is with Hades, Demeter turns the season to winter. Here, we have the separation of one loved one to a different person – we see Twilight taking solace in Sunset, and seeing Timber with Flash. They’re separated, and they’ve been separate, and now everything’s turning to a wintery hellish wonderland where their own hellish forms fight each other. However, when Timber’s own winter ends will be when he can see Twilight as a genuine friend again… when he knows Twilight hasn’t truly left his life forever. It ends up just being another season. It’s just that this winter season is a lot longer than it should be because of this feeling they’ll never be part of each other’s lives again.

Global Comments

(Funny how Sunset’s demon form looks like it could be what would happen if Midnight and Cinder combined into one. The blazing inferno of Cinder, combined with the dark, demon-like and winged being that is Midnight. Them also being the combination of ‘best friend’ and ‘romantic partner’. And yet, Sunset was determined to leave and close the portal, submitting Timber to his fears of everyone leaving once more, and Twilight feeling like her partner closed herself off again when she could have made it better. Pile on another one that would hurt Twi the same way.

But we have Flash as the other side of Sunset without it being about her. They’re both rockers, but Flash gets his chance in the spotlight in this Chapter. He’s shares a lot of Sunset’s supportive side. Flash wants to help so bad and not just be a bystander, but Sunset has wanted to help because if she’s not helping, then she’s hurting - she’s the villain. Still, she thinks that she’s helping by leaving, and ends up she hurting everyone. Flash gets more of a blank slate, this good boy did nothing wrong, and continued to try and help regardless. A mix between bystander and hero. This also made it that much worse for Midnight and Cinder because they both know he did nothing wrong too, whereas both were charged with anger about Sunset’s decision to leave. Flash was the only one who could really have saved them, by showing them how the fighting they had between them actually hurt the people around them. There’s a lot of metaphors or similes I could use to compare it. A child under divorcing parents, war being worse than hell, because hell at least has all the sinners, and war has mostly innocents being the victims really, the brass making all the decisions aren’t even in the war. And of course, the classic “We were dating and we shared friends but now we broke up so who gets the friends?” The friends get caught in the middle and hurt.

Bonus Section:

Seeing Timber’s demon form. This trickster figure, with the Northway inspiration… it’s a funny feeling. Let’s go back to the beginning of Chapter 12 here. The Fates appear as the Princesses, as a Greek mythology reference. However, they do mention they also consider themselves the Norns. Timber showing up to Northway… makes me wonder why he went to Northway of all places. Was it what he was thinking about? What he may have heard about in passing recently? And yet, it’s also a great contrast for Sunset. Because as this story shows, these characters share experiences, they can empathize. But the point throughout the story is that even empathy has its limits. You cannot relate to a person’s entire experience and say you’ve truly been there, because there’s so much more uniqueness and context and differing factors that make it yours. So, we see this in the varied demon forms, and we can think back to how past mythologies are similar but unique. This is pointed out when the Parcae are also mentioned. Sunset coming from a place with heavy Greek inspiration and references, and then with those Fates mentioning the Parcae, further emphasizes the need to compare and contrast them – how similar they are. I’ve seen a lot of jokes about the Romans just taking the Greek legends for themselves, which I think is important to mentioning the Parcae. But having the Norns be mentioned is important to add that additional degree of separation while still understanding they’re similar. So, we see this trickster figure, this sort of Loki, as a contrast to Sunset’s Greek and Abrahamic history (which, her form seems inspired by Abrahamic religion’s perception of demons. WHICH ALSO adds to an illustration of Sunset’s inner conflict – she did not turn into a she-demon in Equestria. There aren’t really Abrahamic references in Equestria in the same way either. This form is human-influenced. This form is representative of Lucifer, of Sunset’s own Paradise Lost. Of the fall from heaven, humanity being cast from the Garden of Eden for having eaten the fruit, as influenced by Lucifer, etc. Sunset here went from Equestria – heaven, from the role of God/Celestia’s favourite, to her defiance, fleeing to the place where the humans were, and bringing them the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge – magic. It’s destructive tendencies that bring real suffering – for example the blood singled out and emphasized in this chapter with the art (and all the other things). But also good things! Trips to Northway! Superhero actions! Sunset was excited to see it come back with the geodes! While angels of heaven had their fates set out and designed, Sunset/Lucifer sought freedom through power – by reigning in hell rather than serving in heaven (and also trying to raise an army to destroy heaven/Equestria). But she fell in love with humanity too, and their own ability to find freedom, not through power necessarily, but by not having their fates set out for them, and having free will (even if it was because of eating from the fruit, but there’s many interpretations to that, and I don’t think eating the fruit gave free will, since they had the free will to choose not to eat the fruit etc.)

Going back to Loki-Timber – Cinder, for a moment. He’s a shapeshifter, like the Norse Loki, in the sense that before getting a demon form, his shape shifted to that of the Rainbooms. My Norse mythology knowledge is rusty, but I think this Wikipedia article is probably accurate for what I’m seeing in EftD here:

“With the onset of Ragnarök, Loki is foretold to slip free from his bonds and to fight against the gods among the forces of the jötnar”

So we have this other mythology not seen in Equestria, be seen and represented here in Timber, who lived separate (and probably north) of Canterlot High as well. We can continue to see this comparison and contrast between Lucifer and Loki – Sunset and Timber – as powerful and influential beings who ultimately fight against the pre-existing God/gods.

Sunset’s presence in the human world manifests as corruption when giving knowledge to humans. We especially see this with SciTwi’s desire for knowledge corrupting her to become Midnight (even if it wasn’t even offered – Sunset feels like it’s her fault anyway since she brought magic there). But if we go back to Sunset’s Greco-Equestrian origins, we can see her as Prometheus as well. Since Prometheus stole the fire from the gods (stole Twilight’s crown and brought magic to the human world), he was punished by having his liver ripped out by eagles. For the Ancient Greeks, the liver represents the source of human emotions. Sunset’s emotions are in turmoil, and she sees the reason it’s so as because she brought magic/fire/knowledge into this world. But Prometheus is still seen as a champion of humanity, for with fire he brought technology and civilization, etc. while Sunset brought it to her friends and later on, the technologically inclined SciTwi.

But tricksters are clever and… tricky. They inherently don’t communicate honestly because that’s what makes it a trick. But they trick the gods.

So Prometheus is also a trickster figure, like Loki - Sunset and Timber. They trick the gods. They’re imprisoned by the gods. They’re freed and go back to fight the gods. Timber’s moment of fighting the gods potentially being his fight with Midnight. Or maybe when he runs his mouth at Sombra. Or maybe we’ll yet see what more he’ll do.

Midnight is the terrifying product of humanity being given knowledge/fire. Sunset’s the reason Midnight came about, because of Twilight’s search for magic, knowledge, and power, but also now emotion. And then, Midnight came back because of another trickster-god – Timber. Midnight’s speeches about Cinder/Timber only hurting himself in his use of magic can be reflective of humanity’s own hubris. That thinking you’re capable of wielding power like that, but underestimating it. Without being able to control or express your emotions properly. And of thinking that, because you’re so scientifically rational, you’re quite capable of not letting your emotions getting the better of you and believing you’re capable, more capable than the gods themselves, of wielding technology, knowledge, power.

But we’re not Vulcans. We’re not driven by rationality all the time and with all things. We have emotional elephants that drive us. And so, managing emotions is essential in having and using power without succumbing to corruption.

And then of course we have rock-angel-god Flash. He’s an angel, but he also flash’s lightning. A servant of God, symbolically holy as Zeus’ thunderbolt (or maybe Apollo’s light). And of course, you know there’s an angelic choir in there somewhere. I’m sure there’s more to it with Norse mythology too but damn the rabbit hole here goes deep and I think y’all get the point.

It's also interesting to see Timber represented this way.  The theme of Light vs Dark can go with the whole original myths thing too. Twilight’s search for knowledge and science would commonly be associated with light - enlightenment and stuff. She also blasts destructive light beams. But she's got dark colours, like a raven.  Flash Sentry, in the form of Slash, shows off his light- his lightshow - that which truly does burn away the darkness and reveal the truth.  Darkness is associated with evil things, but I think it's largely because of uncertainty, which leads to fear.  Sunset Shimmer is pretty obvious in how that's represented - fire produces light, but it also produces heat in order to do so. It makes this damaging unless trying to utilize that fire. Utilizing those negative emotions, like anger, to fight back against monsters in the dark (Nightmare Moon). Timber himself is the fire of the gods, that Prometheus stole. What do we use to light fire? What's the fuel? Wood. Timber. But then it consumes it. So we see that represented literally in Timber. He has that other connection to the Greek myths despite having this Norse inspired figure.   So we see where knowledge, magic, emotion… is self-destructive once more.  And then with Midnight doing the damage she does, we see how it can be destructive to that which we love.  And of course, there's Sombra who represents darkness and shadows being evil. But again, is he evil, or just unknown? Unknown because of a lack of communication and thus, understanding? 

You know what else I realized? Sunset had the intent to kill back in the day. Before SciTwi showed up. But SciTwi is the only one she ended up getting romantically involved with. Despite everything, I think she could never have thought (until now perhaps) of getting into that kind of relationship with any of the other girls or even Princess Twi because of that. The guilt would be too much for her to even think of being able to have that kind of relationship.   If we go back to Sombra/Solstice as well... we can see he also has parental issues. The desire to overthrow the gods/father/mentor/ruling authority in your life continues!  It does get to me... the question of "Why that specifically?" Yes the door could be red because the author likes the colour red, but 'is' that why they did that? So you jot that down and continue on. And then you see the patterns start to emerge... Northway, because it relates to the Norse, because its an effective way of getting this message across.

“Yes all that came around from that badass pic of Cinder”

BUT NOT ONLY THAT

Something else I’m theorizing… if we call back to Greek myths, we see the relationship between Hades, Persephone, and Demeter. When Persephone is with Hades, Demeter turns the season to winter. Here, we have the separation of one loved one to a different person – we see Twilight taking solace in Sunset, and seeing Timber with Flash. They’re separated, and they’ve been separate, and now everything’s turning to a wintery hellish wonderland where their own hellish forms fight each other. However, when Timber’s own winter ends will be when he can see Twilight as a genuine friend again… when he knows Twilight hasn’t truly left his life forever. It ends up just being another season. It’s just that this winter season is a lot longer than it should be because of this feeling they’ll never be part of each other’s lives again.

It's also Interesting to see Timber represented this way.

[smallcrystals]

the way marvelandponder writes sunset and flash’s friendship is SO good it makes me want to punch a wall

[aq2003]

i saw a post saying boom was good bc it feels like it could be done with any doctor/companion duo and honestly that was one of the things i felt was wrong with it

[fangirlingtod3ath]

I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN POCHITA

[mad-hunts]

okay, but this has probably been done before, but i might be having thoughts about a version of the devil that mayyy be partially inspired by the mysterious stranger by mark twain (+ yes, i know that's technically a story about a cousin of satan under the same name, but SHH lolll) and that would be in the way that they're always seen wearing a full-set of armor or like. something that bears a striking resemblance to what they used to wear during the victorian times, but gives off like... gothic and vaguely religious / angelic vibes when they're not wearing armor.

and by that, i mean just imagine them wearing the most extra looking ruffled blouses / tail coats / almost robe-esque clothing. and imagine them having snake eyes too + having a quiet yet domineering presence — though possibly one that's fully hard to pin down because instead of being hot-headed and a misandrist like most iterations are, they are both a sadist and surprisingly empathetic at times + this is possible because to be a sadist, you have to feel some level of empathy.

IDK, i was just thinking about this for some reason today ahahhh. them actually having goat-like eyes when they're not disguised was also something i thought about because of how one of the main animals the devil is associated with is goats... BUT yeah

[marvelandponder]

My sister's asexual, so we have a lot of conversations about what the difference is between a close friendship and a romantic relationship when sex isn't a factor in either of them. And there's really not much of a difference at all, or the difference is a lot smaller than someone would think? So it's absolutely fascinating to see the other side of that - this quasi-aromantic dynamic between Twilight and Sunset in Eros. What's the difference between Twilight and Sunset having a friendship where they have sex, and a romantic relationship? There's not much of a difference - the love is still there either way, the sex is still there, the friendship is still there.

I absolutely adore this ask in so many ways. First of all, love that sisterly support and fascinating discussions!!! I think you'll be pleased with chapter 2 on Friday is all I can say there.

Bevin is aroace, happily single by choice after several years of not knowing aro or ace were thingd you could be, and I'm bisexual and demiromantic, happily partnered currently with a guy I love (and in the past, had experiences of going from friends to partners). Needless to say, Bevin and I have had some interesting discussions about what romantic love even is if you're not someone who devalues friendship for the sake of romance being the Most Important Thing!

I don't want to spoil the two chapters ahead, so I'll just speak to what you've already read: Sunset and Twilight have just entered some super ambiguous territory. I love that you're already thinking this way because I could imagine many readers assuming that because they kissed, it's simple from here, right? They're a couple! They both know what that means - and could only ever mean one thing, right???

I felt like Twilight's lack of confidence in her friendship and romance abilities combined with Sunset's personal hangups around pursuing Twilight when she's vulnerable made for a way to introduce that ambiguity in while hopefully still staying in character.

This is the world where friendship is magic. So, what does that mean for romance? What happens when two friends basically enter into what some people might call a situationship? What's the difference between them as partners, them as best friends, and them in this undefined in-between space?

The thing with Eros is that even if a reader isn't caught up with Empathy for the Devil, they know the answer to will they?/won't they?

Clearly, in the first scene of the story, they will. That's not where the narrative tension comes from when we're reading in the past! These characters have questions -- that I think the story wants to let the reader ask themselves too -- and the reasons why Sunset and Twilight in particular are asking these questions are the focus.

All that to say: I love where you're head's at and am so stoked to see your reaction to chapters 2 and 3 as they come out! (Still going to respond in full to your chapter 1 comment! Just got busier over the weekend than expected haha)