#especially barbara and Steve I think there’s so much missing potential with both of them to be interesting antagonists/friends to Diana

[cyanbeetle]

My Wonder Woman and friends

[tiecladartist]

Okay, spoilers beneath the cut because I have some issues with Rise of the Titans.

Tales of Arcadia is one of my favorite series ever. It handled the "Kid is the chosen one" situation brilliantly, every character had depth (even characters like Steve, Eli, the teachers, etc). Theme was expertly handled with each part of the series. Destiny, heroism and sacrifice for Trollhunters; Family, duty and home for 3-Below; Legacy, prejudice and family (again) for Wizards. Every season brought me to tears, made me laugh, made me fear for the safety of the characters and want good things for them after watching them sacrifice over and over again. It is a comfort show for me and always will be.

Now, the movie...

So, I don't think it was bad. I also don't think it was good, unfortunately. The animation took a bit of getting used to after bingeing everything else leading up to this, but I can't deny it was incredibly beautiful. It was especially nice to see places other than Arcadia and Akiridion-5. It started off strong with the train fight, and admittedly there were a lot of scenes I quite liked during the movie. But, just the scenes. I liked moments, but overall it didn't come together quite as well as the shows did.

The biggest factor is likely time. I doubt making this a movie was the initial plan since I know production companies enjoy snubbing out strong series for various reasons. Honestly, I was surprised we got an "ending" at all based on the trends of recent shows being forced to wrap things up prematurely. Even Wizards felt rushed compared to the others and as a result a lot of interesting concepts were brushed over quickly. I mean, I for one would've loved to see more Camelot "filler" shenanigans since those less plot-heavy episodes that we had throughout Trollhunters and 3-Below helped us explore the characters and grow to love them, and we didn't get quite as much of that with Douxie, Archie, Lancelot, Charlemagne, etc. But I digress, this post is supposed to be about the movie, not Wizards.

So yeah, I think Rise of the Titans should've been a show rather than a movie. We could have more time before Nari is captured, focusing on the "where are they now" of all the characters after the year we skipped. Jim gets to cook and eat human food after losing that passion when becoming a troll, adjusting to being human again! Maybe him and Toby talk about Barbara and Stickler being together and how it's kinda weird (Toby could compare it to having conflicting feelings over his Nana dating an alien). Krel and Aja have a call about how it is being the Queen and Steve interrupts because he misses Aja. Perhaps we hear Eli in the background doing something related to the "Secret weapon" and the call gets cut off quickly because this leads to a small disaster on Aja's end that she needs to go fix. Claire is practicing her magic with the help of Zoe while Douxie is off with Nari. NARI AND DOUXIE INTERACT WITH EACHOTHER AND WE ACTUALLY GET TO SEE IT! (Like, I know that they were travelling together for a year and that that is why Douxie is sad when Nari dies, but it didn't impact at all outside of empathy because there was no emotional investment on my end towards their friendship). But yeah, we get to see what's going on with everyone, and then perhaps this first episode ends with the reveal of them being ready for a plan of sorts (luring the arcane order and cutting off their magic. That wouldn't be revealed though). Cut to the Arcane Order in their super secret clubhouse saying they're close to finding Nari and you get a decent cliffhanger.

Episode 2 would start with the train fight and go fairly the same way. We see Jim struggling with fighting with no armor. Or perhaps he has akiridion armor, but it's too rigid or keeps malfunctioning (doesn't fit, so to speak). Only difference is that Jim's arc wouldn't be about whether or not he's still the trollhunter, because we've been through that already and he knows. I could get having moments of doubt, but his full on denial was kinda out of place after everything he went through. Instead, it could be that he feels useless due to now being a burden in a fight. Or perhaps instead he's wrestling with guilt. He's blaming himself since the arcane order got the seals due to them trying to rescue him. Maybe both? Maybe he even misses his troll body and feels that he's too weak now. Yes, he's still the trollhunter, amulet or not, but he's feeling less and less capable of answering this particular call, and that bothers him. He doesn't want to be a burden after all. Fight ends with the train crash, arrest, Douxie swapping with Nari, all the same.

Now, this is where things would go very very differently. Have more time before Douxie and Nari switch back. Let the Arcane order monologue a little more. They want to reset the world because the balance has been shifted? Cool! Tell me more! Did they used to try to get along with the humans? Did they try diplomacy in the past only to fail due to the stubborn humans, and that's why they've decided to take drastic measures? Or if not, explore why they believe they're the ones allowed to decide the balance is off. Is it because they're powerful? Or how long they've been on Earth? Did they reset it in the past and thus know through experience? I don't mind not knowing, since not everything needs to be spelled out for the audience, but there was potential to make them characters rather than obstacles, and it wasn't really utilized to its full potential. Allow Douxie to pick their brains a little instead of immediately swapping him and Nari back and only succeeding in delaying things a few more hours. Hell, if it was a TV show I honestly would've had one or two episodes before doing that while we address how that initial failure (and the fact that magical creatures/aliens were revealed to the world) affected everyone.

Maybe I'll go through and like, actually plot out episodes and stuff, but since I only just finished watching, here's just some various things I'd change:

-Get rid of that whole Steve pregnancy. That was just out of place and rather than the "comedy" breaking the tension, it shattered it completely and distracted from everything. If you wanna explore his father-based character arc, maybe have him and Aja discussing the fact that now that she's queen, she'll need heirs. And maybe Steve isn't sure he could be a good dad due to his history with paternal figures. You could even have it that he's taking care of Nari while her and Douxie are switched, and that leads to a situation where he helps her out and realizes he may be a better dad than expected. Or perhaps Blinky gives him paternal advice. Or Strickler. Or even BARBARA AND JIM like, Steve couldn't be worse than Jim's dad, and letting Steve and Jim bond over that would be nice. There was so much potential, but instead, Steve was reduced to an out of place running gag instead of getting a resolution to his character arc. And hey, if you wanna keep the whole male akiridions give birth thing that's cool, but it's gotta be done in moments where it won't distract. Or, you could even have it be that it means Aja and Steve need to adopt because uh... she's inorganic and he's organic? His body likely isn't actually built for akiridion childbirth despite the movie glossing over this fact? And maybe Steve has mixed feelings about someone else being the dad of his kids, but Coach and him talk about how Coach isn't his biological dad, but that doesn't mean he loves Steve any less.

-GIVE DOUXIE MORE SCREEN TIME! Seriously, had this been a show he would have the most potential for character growth out of everyone. His series was the shortest, so really all he got was a confidence boost and moving past needing Merlin's approval. But there was so much to explore with him still. What was up with that extreme burst of magic after Merlin's death that was never brought up again? How has he been mentally handling singlehandedly guarding Nari against the Arcane order for a year? Once he and Nari switch back, does he feel guilt over not being able to protect her? "Merlin wouldn't have failed like that. He kept her safe for thousands of years, I lasted a little over one". Perhaps, in his constant desire to prove himself to the people he cares about, he takes risky moves to try and save Nari again and make up for his mistakes, similar to how Jim was acting in the movie. Eventually, when he and Nari meet up again when trying to break her controlled state, Douxie is apologizing and talking about how he wants to make things right. He sees Nari as a friend; as family, just as much as Archie, and he doesn't want to lose her like he lost Merlin. He doesn't want to lose anyone else (which would make Archie getting stuck in the other Trollmarket, and Nari's sacrifice even more painful later on if that still happened).

-Krel, Eli and Stewart also needed more time. I get it was a movie, so time was short, but still. Krel's entire thing is that he grew to see Earth as his true home, and we didn't get to address the fact that he was immediately at risk of losing it at all. Not to mention the sheer amount of stuff he'd built for everyone. Like, could you imagine an episode where, to break up the tension (in a proper way, not a weird pregnancy way), in the midst of everyone trying to figure out how to stop the titans, Krel has overworked himself fixing and managing everyone's tech. He has to spend a day resting and disasters ensue as no one knows how to fix any of the stuff he usually manages. Like the tech keeping Camelot afloat, for example. Stewart and Eli could be the ones that end up stepping up to fill the Krel sized gap for the day.

-And I know that these fillers would lower the tension a bit, but like, having the titans need to charge up after awakening (like, absorbing elemental energy or something), or perhaps making the Arcane Order have to collect certain things to break the seals in the first place that they had on their fortress but lost when that was destroyed , or any other kinda obstacle to give time between the train fight and the Titans waking up would give time for less plot-heavy, more character focused episodes. And even after the titans wake up, they were moving super slowly and walking across the planet. It's not like they'd be short on time despite the movie making it seem like walking from china to america was a short jog at most.

-Don't give Toby the amulet. Don't get me wrong, I love Toby very much and literally bawled out loud at his sacrifice scene. But like, it made no sense to give him the amulet? Jim doing everything again with years of Trollhunter experience would help solve a lot of problems from his first go around (and I'm not fully on board with the whole time reset in the first place. Resetting to the start of the movie, or even just the fight with Bellroc would be better). Jim knows the burdens of being a trollhunter first hand, and you really think he'd be okay dumping all that on Tobes? Toby, the guy completely content with being the wingman and helping the people he cares about. Toby, the guy who never worried about not having a grand destiny up until the movie. The guy who in his biggest dreams was a Duke, not a king. I think Toby was well aware of how important moral support is and wouldn't see it as a lame superpower. But even if he did, in a tv show they could explore that in a way where he comes to learn just how much that moral support does for his friends. And if you still want his moment of glorious sacrifice (because I count that as one of the well done moments), then do that! But rather than going back in time to save everyone, make it so they sacrifice the stone to turn back time a bit. Risk their victory to try saving Toby. Have them fight Bellroc together instead of it being just Jim, because it's trollhunters, not trollhunter. It always has been, always will.

-And if you're like "But if they don't go back then Strickler and Nomura stay dead!" Then how about they don't kill them for shock factor in the first place? Have Strickler badly injured instead, because by god Barbara deserves some happiness. And think of the potential scene of her treating his wounds, and the two of them think about how things have changed since that visit to trollmarket when they were both hurt. About how Strickler stuck around, and when Barbara thought she'd lost him it scared her. How she's sick of almost losing everyone she cares about. She could talk a bit about Jim's dad then too, and it could be revealed that Jim was outside because he was going to check on them, but stopped when he realized they were talking. And then later on, he asks about his dad, admitting he overheard, and we get that conversation they had in the movie. And if you keep the Nomura sacrifice, give her more of a moment ffs. Like, she deserved better! Have the death be a sacrifice to save someone else instead of just "oops I got caught and I'm in the sun now". Make it deliberate. Make it her decision after a life of serving others. Finally, she got to be the one in control of her fate, and she chose to protect the people she cared about.

There's so much more I could say about this and the potential that was killed by the lack of time, but this is getting long and I should probably try actually doing the work I need to do today.

Edit (Because this just popped in my head and I need to add it).

THEY WERE LITERALLY AROUND THE ROUND TABLE! THE NINTH CONFIGURATION (which like, screw that there are more than 9 heroes here to save the day) WERE THE NEW KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND TABLE. They were there to protect the world, and like... did the bond between Lancelot and Steve just not exist anymore? Did that get timeline erased too? Could you imagine Steve fighting to protect the world, doing his best to protect the people he cared about so that he never loses someone like he lost Lance again? He gets to keep his promise to carry on the legacy of the Knights even after they died. THE POTENTIAL WAS THERE!!! THE SET UP WAS THERE!!! BUT NO! WE GET MPREG STEVE INSTEAD!!

[bluejaywriter]

okay okay okay

okay

WW84 spoilers below

EDIT: I just finished typing this, and it’s mostly complaining. Please don’t read this unless you’ve seen the movie. The movie is good. It is above average. I am just being really picky here.

EDIT 2: Okay, I’m watching again and I have to mention that the Amazons scene is very cool and I am probably complaining too much, and the opening scene is worth the price of the ticket/subscription alone. So there.

EDIT 3: Also Kristen Wiig is delightful, and I am so relieved that the CGI was actually okay, especially compared to Cats :P

Okay, so I have complaints, but not a single one matters because THAT MID-CREDITS SCENE IS EVERYTHING, I couldn’t stop smiling, it’s great.

Also, Themyscira is so BIG. Like, holy shit. Also everyone there is 100% gay.

Also, I wish for a well-written multi-season Wonder Woman TV series starring Gal Gadot where Diana falls in love with a woman and they have a grand o’ time together and neither of them permanently dies or turns evil, and if I got that, I would never renounce that wish, I would just sit in my bunker watching some damn good lesbian superheroing while the world burned.

Anyway...

Also Hippolyta smiles for the first time on camera, and I fainted. I wish there was less CGI, though. Could no one build a damn throne for their Queen? At least they gave her a horse to sit on last time.

Also, can we get an alternative movie where Diana wishes she could go home, if her being banned from Themyscira is still a thing? Or maybe that Antiope could come back to life? Or like... anything other than her dead boyfriend that she knew for a week coming back to life

ANYway

The tone was definitely different and not so much my taste, and it also seemed it was pushing a lot of nostalgia from an era that I wasn’t conscious for, so I think there was a lot that I missed.

Also, can someone write the WW84 version where Barbara Ann and Diana like... keep going out on dates and fall in love, because that’s the movie we deserve after 2020. We don’t deserve Steve Trevor, we deserve lovers to enemies to loving enemies. I will literally pay tens of dollars, and potentially sacrifice this good green earth for this.

I also renounce the story about the warrior who originally wore the golden armor because,

1. Hippolyta would have never let someone else do that, she would’ve kept those men back by herself, and she would’ve done it naked, and;

2. Don’t even think for a second that the Amazons didn’t kill their captors. They killed them. They’re dead. Every single one of them. Do you think Hippolyta freed them and they just marched down to the docks and left one woman to hold back an army? Who the fuck wrote this? Geoff Johns? I wish he would never touch a comic book again, especially after the Ray Fisher stuff.

Also, Hippolyta preaching to her daughter about building her character based on the truth rather than lies is pretty damn rich considering the whole Zeus lie thing, which I also renounce. Fuck Zeus, or rather DON’T fuck Zeus.

On one hand, I’m glad we didn’t get a Greek God popping in at the end, but on the other hand... like. It actually would’ve made sense this time for Diana to hunt down this guy and be like, cut it out. Like, humans are not good. And I highly doubt that EVERYONE would’ve reached into the goodness of their heart and renounced their wish. Maybe I’m just jaded by like, living in the USA for the last 9 months. And the world, in general.

Anyway, this is a lot of complaining, but it was entertaining, I don’t have that, OMG I need to buy another ticket to see it again tonight! feeling that I had with the first Wondy movie, but I probably will watch it 4 or 5 more times in full and then little scenes here and there until my HBO month runs out.

I wish it were darker though, but I guess we’ll get that with the Snyder Cut.

Also, DCEU Wonder Woman is now better at being both Batman AND Superman. For reals.

Anyway, decent movie. 7/10

.5 point taken out because Hans Zimmer really didn’t get much time to shine,

.5 point taken out because Diana didn’t get to kiss a woman. We didn’t even get the famous Cheetah spooning hug :(

1 point taken out for the cheesey-ass script,

1 point taken out because it just didn’t have the emotional oomph I was expecting (this is probably the most disappointing part). It wasn’t emotionless per se, but it just didn’t hit its targets for me.

Although, Barbara Ann’s “Thanks for talking to me” hit me like a sack of rocks, so thanks for that Patty Jenkins lol :P

BlueJay’s updated DCEU ranking:

1. Wonder Woman (2017)

2. Aquaman

3. BvS Ultimate Edition

4. Man of Steel

5. WW84

6. Birds of Prey

7. Shazam!

(I’m not even going to include Josstice League and Suicide Squad).

okbye