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supremechancellorrex · 9 months

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What are your thoughts on the Jedi’s no attachments rule?

Hello glorytoukraine. My, this is a complicated question but an interesting one. We can approach it a number of way, but let's break it down to core belief, how it is taught and applied, as well as individual needs versus the collective.

The core belief of non-attachment has always been subject to ethical debate. While it is also present in a number of our world religions, it varies between them on its exact meaning quite considerably, so I'm going to purely focus on the Jedi's teachings in it of itself. The idea of being compassionate but detached is not necessarily a wholly bad one. To care, but be aware of the fact that emotions can cloud judgement and get in the way of the best outcome, can be a logical solution especially considering their function was as diplomats in the Republic before the war.

However, when we see how it's taught, who it's taught to and how it's applied, problems arise.

For one, we see children taken in such as Anakin and Ahsoka who struggle to live the Jedi way of life while at the same time being raised in a Temple they consider their home from a young age. This is a conflict of interest, and these issues are continuously not dealt with with nuance even though the reality is that not everyone can live the life of the Jedi. Ethically, can children as young as toddlers consent to this strict, prohibitive way of life? To not grow up and find love and marry? To not have children? To not to seek out their parents and want to form attachments? They want to be Jedi Knights and Masters, of course they do, but part of that is because it is the only world they know. It is their world. We see Jedi react with horror when their temple is attacked such as the temple bombing case, because it's their home. That's not very detached, nor does it seem to be taken into account much as how that would cloud their vision when making decisions on being Jedi.

Ahsoka: "It's forbidden for a Jedi to form attachments, yet we're supposed to be compassionate."

Furthermore, with Anakin, we see someone whose needs during key developmental stages were not met. Like a number of children, Anakin had behavioural issues and he wasn't the first, however again and again instead of being taught coping strategies tailored to his individual needs, he is told to "let go" and deny himself his wants. This includes his mother, who everyone believes remains a slave on Tatooine, facing a brutal existence, this includes his feelings regarding other loved ones. The doctrine is inflexible, even when feelings are inevitable, and yet the code is repeated as if it is always the plausible solution.

We see this with Dooku, where he bitterly says to Master Yaddle "What choice have I?" in regards to letting go of Qui-Gon Jinn after his death. Ahsoka is left in Anakin's care as a very young mentee, yet his feelings of panic and urgency are not considered a valid reaction by Luminara when Ahsoka and Barriss are missing after the factory explosion on Geonosis. The code is continuously drummed into them as 'the solution' in spite of their individual needs, experiences and personalities.

Anakin: "Something's happening. I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more. And I know I shouldn't."

We see members of the Jedi who struggle but feel that they have to be Jedi, that they have no choice. Yet, again and again, we see Jedi form attachments despite it being forbidden, even when the code tells them not to because it is inevitable for most sentient beings. The Jedi themselves were attached to the galactic state of the Republic, they couldn't let its despotic state naturally collapse, showing an institutional bias quite at odds with their philosophy. We have also seen times when they as an institution have definitely not been very compassionate. Ultimately, the Jedi don't seem to provide proof they employ their code in a healthy way, and don't seem to have a support network for the reality of divergent individuals beyond a rhetoric and meditation techniques that don't seem to always work. That isn't truly teaching coping mechanisms to children.

So, either way, I... wouldn't trust them with any of my relations.

#star wars #the clone wars #jedi critical #anakin skywalker #ahsoka tano #yoda doesn't give good advice

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ambivalent-cosmos · 1 year

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hello! for the fanfic ask thing: what is the most controversial vader/anakin take that you've sublimated into your writing?

That he isn't a fucking fascist.

If anything he ends up being more socialist in his own private beliefs. The motivation for supporting and participating as an authoratative despot is that he keeps slamming his head against the wall thinking that if he ends all war then the government can finally provide food, blankets, clean water, and healthcare to everyone in the galaxy, that somehow if everyone STOPPED FIGHTING then the government can focus on redistributing resources to those who need it. But he's always been stuck in a position of War, not of Policy, and wouldn't know what to do with Policy even if he got it. It's almost naïvely incorrect, because the man is traumatized as hell and has latched on to "If I do This Then Everything Will Be Better For Everyone."

He for sure is represented and perceived as Major Fascist #2, but I have Anakin have a large gulf between his internal personal beliefs, and the beliefs he is perceived to have by others. If the action taken is identical either way, what does the motivation matter? It matters to me.

Additionally, I don't write him as a zealot for the Sith. As a follower of Fialleril's portrayal of Star Wars, I write Anakin as more of a Force agnostic, and his 'faith' in things like the Will of the Force and Destiny vary at different points in his life. If he has a religion, I'd say it's Amavikka, the faith of Tattooine's enslaved people and their diaspora.

#thanks for the ask!#the bat speaks

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cc-0420 · 3 years

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sometimes i feel like obi-wan was meant to fall

the emotional kid in the crèche and had a tough time controlling his anger

rejected by qui-gon

sent to bandomeer and ended up being a slave in the mines

finally becomes a padawan

then, the mission to melinda/daan

he leaves the jedi order (the place he tried so hard to belong) to help the young in the war

the amount of distrust that grows between him and qui-gon

when anakin comes along, obi-wan is basically disowned publicly by qui-gon so he could take on anakin as a padawan

(not that he blames anakin, because he is a kid who has no clue what’s going on)

yet when maul comes to fight, obi-wan is still willing to die for qui-gon because he is so loyal (and attached)

the fight with maul is the first time he touches that anger to use the dark side. there is no way a padawan can just beat a sith apprentice without the dark side

when the fight ends and he “kills” maul, i think he suppresses it enough because he wants to complete qui-gon’s final wish to train anakin

(wtf, why would you put that burden on him it’s basically a soon to graduate high school kid now having to raise an elementary student)

so obi-wan suppresses any darkness to become the perfect jedi to train anakin

when the war starts, things begin to change

when arriving at kamino, obi-wan feels the millions of lights, with different personalities

obi-wan is introduced to his commander, cc-2224, who, when asked a name, is hesitant due to pure fear of what happened to past troopers

he slowly learns of the horrors of kamino, the reconditioning and decommissioning of former troopers. the clones are afraid of the jedi due to stories heard from the kaminoans, i mean, they’re just products to be sold

obi-wan goes out of the way to make an effort to learn all of the 212st’s names. yet as the war goes on, he feels the lights blink out on the battlefield

then his ex-padawan gets his own padawan. now, ahsoka is bright, but her training is very different from past generations. instead of learning about cultures and preserving life, they are taught to fight separatists and serve the republic (and that is the exact reason he got kicked out in melinda/daan)

than umbara happens. right under obi-wan’s nose. he was on the planet, sending his troops into massacre

pong krell was a jedi, yet treated the clones like droids, not the life forms they were. while filing the report, obi-wan let himself truly grieve for the first time in the war

when before, obi-wan was rolling down a hill to the dark side, he begins to fall on kadavo

each action obi-wan did wrong became punishment for the tortugas. as they worked pointlessly for “training” the tortugas lost all hope on the jedi. they were the ones to blame for the punishment

the mission was to get the citizens of kiros back. any other action could be seen as an act of war for the republic

this is what the order has become is all obi wan can think, the republics slaves. jedi are supposed to protect the people, not whatever the republic demanded

his spirit begins breaking down. no physical torture can match the guilt of not being able to save others.

unlike bandomeer, he is not the one getting punished for his actions

when he and rex get free, obi-wan wants to kill agruss and his eyes flicker yellow for a moment. but, like canon, rex does it for him

afterwards, rex and obi-wan talk about the horrors of the facility and the lack of faith for the republic and what they are fighting for

rex points out that the clones are a slave to the republic anyway and that they have no other options with their lives (he would never say it straight out to a commanding officer, but this is a headcanon)

“what would you do if we weren’t fighting this war?” “i wouldn’t exist, but i sometimes think many of the vod would prefer that”

that’s when obi-wan snaps. the clones deserve rights more than anyone, yet they will never get it from the republic

the 212th join him with no questions asked cody would follow obi wan till the end of time

obi-wan offers the idea to anakin. he says he is betraying the republic and the chancellor. obi wan says anakin is betraying his troops, yet makes sure he knows that he and ahsoka would always have a place with him

“why?” “the jedi have lost their path. in zygarria, it was get in and out with the tortugas, yet so many remain in slavery.”

“what about my mom?” “what about your mom?” obi-wan was never told anakin was a slave

“i need to stay here. padmé, the chancellor, ahsoka. they need me.” “ok anakin. i am always here for you if you want to reach out about anything” ahsoka stays for anakin

rex wouldn’t leave anakin and ahsoka, but allows for the vod to make their own decision and half of the 501st leaves

so obi-wan, with a battalion and a half leaves the gar and the jedi unannounced. he travels the galaxy picking up clones (who want to join) as well as anyone in need

it is uncalled for and brings the senate and the order to chaos. how can the perfect jedi leave?

as a sith, he isn’t fighting for power or revenge. he is fighting for freedom and justice for the people in the galaxy

the only reason he would fall would be to help others

(he tried so hard to be the perfect jedi, which makes it impossible in his eyes to leave, but is also a great excuse for falling)

he wears armor b/c he wants cody to be happy (the only reason he wasn’t before was b/c it was unjedi-like and straying too far from his beliefs)

he keeps the blue saber, yet also uses blaster now because he became uncivilized

he does read about the powers of the sith and explores what he can do

obi-wan was always good at force suggesting people

while the senate and the public panics (how could they not, the great negotiator has deflected with the best battalion in the galaxy), the order uses the time to reflect. no one joins obi-wan, but there is an unspoken agreement to support his cause

he never explicitly fights against the republic, but doesn’t mind fighting separatists when ever he gets a chance

if a jedi was asked, they didn’t get mysterious help when they were previously losing. yeah, a bunch of clones disappeared, but we won. the senate doesn’t know the difference

falling is a disgrace, but that doesn’t mean plo koon and shaak ti doesn’t send some troopers kenobi’s way as the vod’s honorary buirs

palpatine’s plans begin falling apart

it allows windu and yoda to sooner recognize the flaws in the order and in the senate

barriss leaves the temple sooner, but goes to obi-wan instead of bombing the temple

anakin is now able to trust obi-wan with his and padmé’s relationship, in which he can voice his approval and anakin doesn’t have to feel guilty

when palpatine promises anakin a way to save padmé, he asks obi-wan if that’s true

obi-wan kills palpatine for being a pedo (or he lets fox a clone do it if they want ceaser style)

everyone lives happily with palpatine dead

anakin leaves the order to become a trophy husband (and learn more from obi-wan)

as does ahsoka

the clones get a vacation

i got this idea from @curioscurio ‘s sith!obi-wan fan art

#add on if you want #sith obi-wan is hot #even dooku wanted him to be a sith #sith obi wan #obi wan kenobi #obi wan #tcw obi wan #sw #sw tcw #justice for the clones #fanfic #codywan #anakin skywalker #tcw ahsoka #clones #clone wars #captain rex #qui-gon jinn

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bamf-jaskier · 3 years

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Fringilla’s Tragic Backstory

If we can talk about the tragic backstory for the villain of every piece of media I’m going to do it for Fringilla too. Because this woman has been THROUGH IT.

For @muslimyennefer, fellow Fringilla fan

TLDR: Fringilla has a classic corruption arc, comparable to the likes of Eve Polastri, Will Graham, Anakin Skywalker and Morgana Pendragon. She starts out quiet and caring and ends hardened and many might say cruel. Her treatment at Aretuza was terrible and definitely ties into her decision to cut off all ties and fully commit herself to Nilfgaard.

Let’s start out by talking about her personality when she first enters Aretuza. She is shown to be very caring and also very shy. When Tissaia states that Fringilla’s conduit moment was freezing a cat she immediately says she didn’t mean to and then later when they are working with lightning Fringilla is the first one to try and help Doralis.

She is also shown to be one of, if not the most talented mage in their class. However, she receives none of the praise that Sabrina does. In fact, Tissaia specifically sets up the first lesson so that the person who is the most successful at the spell is the one who suffers the consequences because she never tells her students about the dangers of the spell until Fringilla withers her hand.

The worst part of Fringilla’s hand? It isn’t fixed until her Ascension. FOUR YEARS LATER. Tissaia’s “lesson” (which wasn’t a lesson because the students didn’t have all the information) caused Fringilla pain and suffering for four years. Despite her hand, which must have been extremely painful judging by Fringilla’s cry when it happened, she remains the most powerful mage in her class.

You can see Fringilla’s hand both during the lightning scene and during the ascension scene.

It isn’t healed until the ball where Fringilla is dancing with King Virfuril and her left hand is no longer withered.

Once again, I ask, WHY did Tissaia have Fringilla spend four years in pain and suffering by something she directly caused and had the ability to fix?

On this same note, it’s important to note that Fringilla has a similar talent level to Sabrina, she never messes up and she always is at the top. Tissaia praises Sabrina but never does Fringilla to the same extent. In fact, Tissaia treats Fringilla similar to Yennefer where she degrades them both but there is one key difference: Tissaia wants to give Yennefer opportunities in court and wants her somewhere like Aedirn. Tissaia actively wanted to sabotage Fringilla.

When meeting with the council of mages, Tissaia pushes for Fringilla to be sent to Nilfgaard. As Fringilla is one of the most promising mages in her year, this is a very confusing choice. She outright says:

Vanielle of Brugge: King Fergus is proving to be an effective and excitable young king.

Stregobor: Horny, she means. Spending the kingdom’s money on women as his people starve to death.

Tissaia: Fringilla will be in Nilfgaard by week’s end. She will bring sanity and bread to the people.

Stregobor: Your girl is- With all due respect, [to Artorius] your niece is only capable of doing what she’s told.

Artorius: No ambitious mage wants to be assigned anywhere south of Sodden. But Nilfgaard needs correcting. Perhaps we consider sending someone there with a bit more… spine. Stregobor, did you have anyone in mind?

Tissaia chose to originally send Fringilla to Nilfgaard even though she expected Fringilla to basically rot there and have no upward mobility. Everyone agrees that Nilfgaard is a very bad place to be. When Yennefer thinks she is sent there she even tells Istredd:

Yennefer: Can your apology save me from Nilfgaard? Take me to Aedirn? Do they make me more than my blood?

Just to clarify: Yennefer should NOT have been sent to Nilfgaard and there is a whole other post to be made about elven macro and micro aggressions in the Witcher, but what’s important to understand here is that Tissaia specifically chose to send one of her most talented pupils to a kingdom with no mobility and a corrupt king.

As well, during the Ball when Fringilla sees Yennefer go with King Virfuril she looks terrified when she realizes that she is now being sent to Nilfgaard. Tissaia hands Fringilla off to her uncle Artorius Vigo and even though that shot clearly is meant to focus on Tissaia, shout-out to Mimi Ndiweni for going that hard on the acting.

So basically Fringilla was treated like shit for four years despite her talent, then used as a pawn in Tissaia and the overall Brotherhood’ schemes and she is a GREAT example of the characters that get left behind in the hero’s stories. Yes, it is an amazing thing that Yennefer gained autonomy and said fuck you to Tissaia by getting the Aedirn position but we dont often think about the characters that end up suffering becuase of these plot points such as Fringilla.

She was sent to Nilfgaard ill-prepared and we don’t know what happened there, but whatever occurred in the 50 years before Fringilla met the White Flame, it changed her enough that she was able to go from the sweet, quiet and caring girl we see in Aretuza to the hardened mage we see in Cintra.

While she was in Aretuza, Fringilla was belittled and cast aside at every turn. She was told that no matter how talented she was, she would never be supported or taken seriously. Is it any surprise that she turned away from the Brotherhood completely and rejected their beliefs? They rejected her first.

Fringilla has a classic corruption arc, comparable to the likes of Eve Polastri, Will Graham, Anakin Skywalker and Morgana Pendragon. We don’t know what caused her journey from hero to villain in canon because it hasn’t been shown on screen, but I hope they do, it would be very interesting to know!

In the meantime, I love coming up with various theories as to what Fringilla went through in Nilfgaard and have fallen deeper in love with her character than ever.

#So I am an unashamed Fringilla stan #I love her so much #Also if you can't tell I love eve will and Anakin too #I would include Jonathon Sims as a corruption arc but it was basically corruption without him knowing #and I like Morgana but I don't love her like the others and also I was never super into Merlin #I watched it once #pretty good show #the witcher #fringilla #meta #myposts #tissaia #nilfgaard #aretuza #mages #worldbuilding #fringilla vigo

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maaruin · 4 years

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The Institutional Problems of the Jedi Order

Preface

I think it is time to finally write this post. These ideas have been going through my head for some time after reading some Jedi discourse. But I should preface this with: even though the Jedi made mistakes, this does not mean Palpatine’s genocide of them was justified. It only means that he saw certain flaws in the Order that he could exploit. I suspect that without these flaws, he probably still would have managed to take over and persecute the Jedi, but much more of the Order would have survived.

For this post, I am mostly using the prequel movies with a bit of lore added from the old Expanded Universe. I’m not using The Clone Wars, because its depiction of Anakin’s fall to the dark side is different from the movies. And I’m not using the new Disney Canon, because I don’t know what has been retconned so far and what hasn’t.

Depending on how we count, I think there were either two or four major flaws. I’ll number them as four, but the first three could be grouped together.

1. The Jedi Order is a religion but isn’t organized like one

The Jedi are a religion. They are a group that believes certain things about the universe and practices a way of life that fits with these beliefs. But they are also entirely organized as “Jedi Knights” who are “guardians of peace and justice in the [old] republic”. This is… odd. The entire religion is basically made up of full-time professionals. Or rather, monastics.

If you want to study the Force and use it, you have to become a monk, basically. And more than that, to be accepted you need to already have a special talent in using the Force. Actually, you can’t even do that, they only take toddlers, so your parents have to decide if you should join this religion and become a monk. (Or maybe the Jedi Order just takes all Force sensitive children no matter what the parents think, it’s not entirely clear.)

A normal religion isn’t organized like that. Normally most members of a religion are normal people with normal jobs with varying levels of devotion. They participate in the practices of the religion in a way that fits into their daily life. Then there are religious professionals like priests who work to make it possible for the normal followers to practice this religion. And then, in some religions, there are monastics who dedicate their life to practicing the religion, generally apart from the normal believers. The Jedi only have the last group.

That alone would make them much easier to target and wipe out. But it is even more like that. The entire Jedi Order is integrated into the institutional framework of the Republic. All of the higher ranked Jedi (we will talk about the lower ranked later) basically work as special police and special diplomats for the Republic. “and” not “or”, all of them must fulfill both roles. And, when the Clone Wars start, they all become officers in the Republic military.

Now, in principle I don’t think religious institutions working closely with the state and fulfilling important roles for it is necessarily a problem. But if this is the only way this religion can be practiced, the practice of this religion will become poor in variety and closed off to most people who would be interested in participating.

2. Slavery in the Galaxy

There is slavery in the Galaxy Far Far Away. It is illegal in the Galactic Republic, but it is widely practiced in the planets of the Outer Rim, which might or might not be members of the Republic. The Jedi know that slavery is bad. What should they do?

Well, as much as a like the image of a hundred Jedi waltzing into the Hutt Cartel and killing/arresting them all, that probably wouldn’t be the best idea and cause much more chaos and harm than it solves, at least in the short run. But there are alternatives besides doing that and mostly ignoring it. For a start, here are two:

Establish underground railroads to smuggle slaves to freedom or assist on already established ones. Jedi mind-reading and precognition abilities will be very helpful in such endeavors.

Assist in organizing and fighting in slave revolts. One Jedi can turn the tide on the battlefield and if they are respected diplomats, the can help the slaves in finding supporters.

But this isn’t what the Jedi do because they are preoccupied with their role in the Republic. Qui-Gon says to Anakin that he didn’t come to Tatooine to free slaves. Which is true, he was sent to assist the government of Naboo against the Trade Federation, not the slaves on Tatooine against the Hutts. And why was he sent to Naboo and not Tatooine? Because Chancellor Valorum decided that resisting the Trade Federation was in the interest of the Republic, but freeing slaves wasn’t.

As mentioned in part 1 the number of members of the Jedi religion is smaller than it should be and integrated into the Republic in a way that leaves little room for it to act independently.

3. The Clone Army

Suddenly, an army for the Republic conveniently appears in time when the Republic is about to go to war after centuries of peace. This army is made up of, for all intents and purposes, slaves. Slaves that have been bred to be especially obedient. The Republic is expecting the Jedi to serve as officers in this army. What should the Jedi do?

Serve as officers, because the clones would suffer more without them?

Refuse to serve because that would mean supporting the introduction of slavery into the Republic?

Throw their political weight around and demand the clone troopers be freed and given Republic citizenship and in addition demand an end of the clone production in return for serving in the war?

Serve on both sides of the clone wars because the Republic obviously doesn’t have the moral high ground anymore and if their service in the Republic army leads to less suffering, their service in the Separatist army will do so as well?

There are probably more options. The Jedi decided to pick the one that reduced the suffering of the clones in the short term, but by doing that squandered the opportunity to take a stance against the creation of the clone army. And we don’t even see meaningful discussion within the order about this choice. This is, I suspect, because the Jedi are so used to their role as enforcers in the Galactic Republic that the alternatives weren’t really on the table.

(Palpatine’s plan was counting on the Jedi to behave this way when he planned Order 66.)

4. Dealing with emotions (the problem with Anakin)

While the Jedi Order may not demand it’s members to be emotionless, it does demand that they keep their emotions under very strict control. Nonetheless, almost all the Jedi we see do seem to be emotionally well adjusted. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, all of them seem to have little trouble with this demand.

Anakin, on the other hand, has a lot of trouble with it. He often has emotional outbursts through Episode II and III, then shortly afterwards walks back and apologizes. Curiously, this isn’t the case in Episode I. There he is actually quite good in dealing with his emotions. In other words, his time in the Jedi Order made his ability to handle his own emotions worse. Much worse, actually.

I think the reason for this is that whenever he feels something, other Jedi tell him that this is not right. It starts with Yoda in Episode I. “Afraid are you? […] Fear is the path to the dark side... fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate.. hate leads to suffering.” Criticisms like this no doubt continued all the way through his training until, by the time of Episode II, every time he feels an emotion he is angry at himself for feeling that emotion, which leads to more emotional instability, not less.

But why is this a problem Anakin has and not for the other Jedi we see. Maybe it is because he started his training later than is normal for a Jedi. But I suspect it is something slightly different: The Jedi who go through their training either find a way to handle their emotions in a way the order approves of, or they are sorted out. In the Expanded Universe there is a so called Jedi Service Corps where Jedi who fail their training go to work as farmers, explorers, educators or medical assistants. These jobs are, however, seen as lesser and going there is considered a failure. This is unfortunate, I think the Jedi could do much more good in the galaxy if the best of them were able to work in different fields instead of all being stuck with warrior-diplomat. Nonetheless, the Service Corps actually mitigates one of the flaws the Order has to some extend, if it works like I suspect. If the Jedi don’t have a way of dealing with emotions that works for everyone, the next best thing is to only pick the ones that can handle it and put the rest somewhere where they are useful and can’t do damage. Certainly not ideal, but an understandable adjustment.

But anyways, Anakin wasn’t sorted out. It is never confirmed in the movies, but I would suspect they made an exception for him. Yoda already made an exception for him when they decided to train him at all. And because he was the chosen one, I think they thought that his potential would be wasted if he only got to be in the Service Corps. If we ignore the Service Corps and only go off the movies, my criticism still stands: Yoda recognized that Anakin might not handle Jedi training well and he should have stuck to his guns and refuse Anakin to be trained within the Jedi Order.

Why are the Jedi like this?

Personally, I like to explain these flaws of the Jedi Order historically. Now, the EU doesn’t really fit with the theory I have. Because in games like KotOR and SWtOR the Order seems very similar to the Order in the Prequels. On the other hand, other sources say that this structure of the Jedi Order is a product of the Ruusan Reformation which happened after the end of the last Sith War a thousand years before Episode I.

To defeat the Sith at the end of that war, all Jedi were brought together as one army, no matter what they had done before. They didn’t really defeat the Sith (the Sith were deceived by Darth Bane to destroy themselves), but they thought they did. They thought they almost single-handedly saved the Republic from destruction.

Because of this, they rebuilt the Jedi Order in a way that was explicitly integrated into the institutions of the Republic. They built it in a way that made the fighting Jedi the core of the Order, other forms of being a Jedi were downgraded to the Service Corps. Because many Jedi had fallen to the dark side in that war, they taught a very strict form of emotional control and only trained force-sensitives from birth. And because they were so linked to their role as enforcers for the Republic, the neglected many other things Jedi should do, like helping slaves free themselves.

A better Jedi Order

No matter if this is how it happened, I do think the Jedi Order could be different (better). Here is how I would change it:

A Jedi Laity: Every living being is connected to the Force, so let them participate in practices that serve this connection like Jedi meditation. They may never be able to move things with their mind, but that’s not the point.

Jedi who serve the people should live among them: Jedi priests, Jedi healers, and yes, even Jedi knights should not form their own community but instead be in the same community as the Jedi laity.

Monasteries for the monks: Jedi who fully want to focus on their connection with the Force could still live in monastic communities.

Don’t completely integrate into the state: Working with the Galactic Republic could still be a thing, but the Republic should never depend on the Jedi and only a minority of Jedi should serve the Republic directly.

Help people everywhere: Because they are not completely bound to the Republic, many Jedi can decide how they will serve the people in the galaxy. Some might decide to help the slaves in the Outer Rim.

A Variety of Emotion: Not every Jedi will be as capable of controlling their emotions as the others. If there is a large variety of ways to be a Jedi, I suspect that most of them could still find their place to fit into the Order.

Allow adults to join: With adults it is much easier to determine if they would make a good Jedi and what way of being a Jedi would suit them. If there is a Jedi laity, they can be trained as children to some degree before they decide if they want to join.

Would this Jedi Order have fallen to Palpatine’s manipulation? I don’t know. But I think it would have been harder for him. If most Jedi didn’t serve in the Republic military and weren’t in a small number of Jedi temples, Order 66 would have claimed much less of the Order. (Probably 10%-20% instead of >90%.) Jedi would find it much more easy to hide in the population and the laity could help carry on the Jedi traditions in secret. Anakin might have been more emotionally well adjusted and not fall for Palpatine’s manipulations. (On the other hand, in a more open Jedi Order like this, there might be more people who could be turned, so who knows.)

Well, this is my contribution the Jedi discourse. The Jedi aren’t evil, and they certainly didn’t deserve genocide because of this. But as the Prequels depict them, they have certain tragic flaws in the way they are organized that Palpatine could exploit.

(Maybe I’ll make a shorter Part 2 about how Luke deals with this.)

#star wars #prequel trilogy #jedi #jedi order #order 66 #there is no emotion #jedi service corps #fictional slavery #jedi critical #galactic republic #anakin skywalker #palpatine

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gffa · 4 years

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Here’s the thing about Qui-Gon: His view of Anakin is very much influenced by how he sees him as the Chosen One. That this doesn’t negate that Qui-Gon is genuinely warm and kind towards Anakin, but that when push comes to shove, when Qui-Gon feels the need to object or ask a promise of someone, it’s not, “This boy needs our help.” but instead, “He is the Chosen One, you must see it.” and “Promise me you’ll train the boy. He is the Chosen One.” It’s even how he broaches the topic with the Council--he tries to demure about how he doesn’t presume to assume that Anakin actually is the Chosen One, but Yoda calls his bluff, oh, you totally do think that, and even Qui-Gon has to simmer down because, yeah, Yoda’s got him. He does think that and that is why he’s pushing for Anakin to be trained as a Jedi, despite he knows it’s going to be a hard sell. One thing I think gets overlooked a lot is that Qui-Gon is reasonably emphatic that Anakin be trained as a Jedi, I think it’s easy to assume that, because he argues with the Council, that he’s ready to turn his back on them, but honestly Qui-Gon seems to really, really love the Jedi. His friendship with Yoda in The Clone Wars and the Revenge of the Sith novelization (Legends, but I’m willing to allow it because George line-edited it) and From a Certain Point of View and the Age of Republic comics are all wonderfully touching. Qui-Gon loves the Jedi and he wants to help them. He wants Anakin to be trained as a Jedi. Qui-Gon may have disagreements with his family, but he is absolutely loyal to them, that’s why he works so hard to reach out to Yoda and Obi-Wan after his death, that’s why he works so hard to get Anakin to be a Jedi when we see that he could have just said, “Fine, I’ll take him and train him on my own then.” because that’s what Obi-Wan said he would do. But that also comes with how Qui-Gon very much saw Anakin as the Chosen One and that was his argument. That’s what it came down to for Qui-Gon, when everything else was peeled away. “He is the Chosen One, you must see it.” It’s particularly interesting because the narrative of the prequels movies and even The Clone Wars, aside from the Mortis arc, seem incredibly unconcerned with Anakin as the Chosen One, that none of the other Jedi ever say it to his face (until after he turns to the dark side) and express a lot of doubt. Their concern about him is wrapped up in who he is as Anakin Skywalker, not as the Chosen One. It’s barely even brought up the other movies and never to Anakin’s face. Qui-Gon, on the other hand, has many scenes that revolve around his belief that Anakin is the Chosen One and that’s pretty much the heart of why he’s so gung-ho about this. If you get into supplementary material, Qui-Gon is borderline obsessed with prophecies, they legitimately haunt him from the time he was 12 to even when he’s adult, he lets them go, but they always come back, which fits with his 100mph belief that Anakin must be the Chosen One. And it’s not that he’s wrong, because Anakin absolutely is the Chosen One, but that I feel like Qui-Gon was destined to find Anakin, but not necessarily the one who was best to train him. Because of Qui-Gon seeing him as the Chosen One rather than a kid who needed help and because their personalities were not great at meshing together. Even George Lucas says: “So here we’re having Qui-Gon wanting to skip the early training and jump right to taking him on as his Padawan learner, which is controversial, and ultimately, the source of much of the problems that develop later on.” –George Lucas, The Phantom Menace commentary Not “the Jedi didn’t want to help him” or “the Jedi didn’t love him enough”, etc. But “Qui-Gon wanted to skip the early training and jump ahead, which is ultimately the source of much of the problems that develop later on”, which fits with what George has said in other commentary: “If he’d have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn’t have this particular connection as strong as it is and he’d have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them.” --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary The problem is that Anakin needed to go through the proper Jedi training, not skip through it on fast forward--which is why I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Anakin wanting to be made a Master is in Revenge of the Sith, every movie somehow connects to how Anakin needed more time to devote himself to the Jedi Path, not that it was doing him dirty. Qui-Gon got wrapped up in the prophecy of the Chosen One and pushed things too fast, which left everyone else scrambling in his wake. And I can believe that this is entirely understandable, that Qui-Gon felt some great push for this and, honestly, I’m not sure he thought that he himself should be the one to train Anakin at first, because it’s not until the Jedi say no that he says, well, then I’ll train him, like he initially expected that someone else would. So, why did the Jedi make Anakin a Padawan so early, even after Qui-Gon died? We don’t know that, we never see that part of the story, we can make some guesses and we know that Obi-Wan was doing his best and that he had support from the community around him, but the specific details we aren’t sure of, only that George sources the problem back to Qui-Gon trying to push Anakin forward too quickly. (Which I maintain can be taken in a sympathetic light!) And that ties together with Qui-Gon’s view of him being the Chosen One, and he does try to balance it with Anakin being a young kid who is being thrown into these wild circumstances, he’s very warm with him, but we see so many Jedi being warm with younglings--look at Plo when he first picks up Ahsoka, look at Mace with the little Twi’lek girl who needed help, look at Yoda with the younglings in AOTC and “The Gathering”, so it’s not like Qui-Gon was the only one. And he does look at Anakin and see The Chosen One more than anyone else because, when everything else falls away, when he only has a few moments left to live, that’s what he says for his final words. He touches Obi-Wan’s face gently and says, “Train the boy. He is the Chosen One, he will bring balance.” And when he’s being denied training Anakin, it’s not about Anakin himself or what Anakin as a person needs. It’s about, “He is the Chosen One! You must see it!” Which isn’t at all what Anakin needed, imo. Rather, I think Qui-Gon would have been a much better grand-master to Anakin, the one who could spoil him when he came around, the one Anakin could commiserate with when he was mad at Obi-Wan, who would be able to temper Anakin’s need for someone to crab with versus that Qui-Gon would care about being kind to Obi-Wan at the same time. And it’d be nice for Anakin to feel like he could “gang up on” Obi-Wan with someone, since other Jedi were available, but I’m not sure Anakin would have had that kind of relationship with them. Ultimately, Anakin’s choices were his own more than they were anyone else’s, it can’t be about “if this or this had happened around him, he would have chosen differently!” because that strips Anakin of agency as a character. But this is why I don’t think Qui-Gon was some magic answer because, honestly, if it had been that easy to prevent Anakin from going dark side, of course Obi-Wan would have stepped into whatever role he felt Anakin needed. But the truth was that Anakin needed more self-reflection, not some external force that was missing in his life. Anakin’s choices were his own, based on his own inability to confront the fears within himself because he never really wanted to, and I don’t see the evidence where Qui-Gon would have succeeded in that, versus where others couldn’t convince Anakin to do it.

#anakin skywalker #qui gon jinn #meta

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itsclydebitches · 4 years

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Establishing an Ethical Dilemma: The Clone Wars’ “Downfall of a Droid” vs. RWBY’s “Gravity”

On today’s episode of Metas No One Asked For we’re going to talk about how The Clone Wars’ sixth episode “Downfall of a Droid” managed to do everything RWBY’s seventh season “Gravity” failed at.

(Apologies in advance for the very shitty picture quality.)

In each show we start off with an incredibly difficult situation: if Anakin and his troops leave then the Separatists will gain this area of space. If they stay and fight they’re likely all be killed. If Team RWBY leaves a good portion of a city will perish. If they stay and fight they (including that city) will most likely all be killed. Now, in comparing these episodes we need to acknowledge that RWBY is setting up immediate consequences whereas The Clone Wars is setting up long-term consequences. It feels like Team RWBY has less of an option to retreat because their immediate consequence is that a good portion of Mantle will die. It feels like Anakin has more of an option to retreat because the impact of letting the Separatists gain a foothold won’t be seen until later in the war. Those long-term, mostly invisible consequences simply don’t resonate with us in the same way that the deaths of large swaths of minor characters we’ve seen throughout the volume does. It feels worse for Team RWBY to retreat because we’ve seen the Mantle citizens on screen throughout the season. They feel more real to us than the nameless, faceless people who will die later on if the Separatists gain this advantage. But both situations require sacrifice in order to keep the war going and both situations require sacrifice in order to save the immediate people around you. Ironwood wants to save everyone in Atlas and the people he’s evacuated from Mantle. Obi-Wan wants to save Anakin, Ahsoka, and the who knows how many clones on these ships. Both situations ask the question, “Even if you’re personally willing to take a nonsensical, terrible, borderline impossible risk to save others, how can you doom those around you in the process? The people you’re speaking for - as civilians or as subordinates - do not get to make that choice for themselves. In the name of the unlikely possibility that you’ll save people in the future you’re taking the far more likely risk of killing others here and now.”

Despite taking up only six minutes of screen time (the real emphasis is on losing R2. This battle is just the setup for that) The Clone Wars manages to provide a more complex and balanced account of the ethics of this situation than RWBY managed in multiple episodes. It is made abundantly clear that, despite coming from a noble place, Anakin is in the wrong here. He’s trying to risk too much on the basis of nothing. He’s in the same position Team RWBY was in, just insisting loudly that they have to fight because it’s the right thing to do, and he’s called out for that by the story itself. Obi-Wan, Anakin’s Master and superior, tells him not to go through with this.

Ahsoka, his padawan, agrees. This is how you have a much younger, much less experienced character being better than their elders, by actually allowing them to act as the more mature party in a scene. If Ahsoka, who thus far has been characterized as equally reckless and desperate to push the war as far as she can as fast as she can, thinks this is a dumb move, you know it’s a very dumb move.

“Suicide is not the Jedi way.” We could also say that “Suicide is not the huntsmen way.” Doing the “right thing” means absolutely nothing in the face of your own death and the death of everyone following you. What have you achieved here? Satisfaction of some sort for being a Good Person? Congratulations, you can feel smug about that in the afterlife while ignoring the deaths/detriment to the war weighing on your conscious. Here Anakin’s superior and his subordinate call him out on this selfish behavior. He’s not a bad person for wanting to defend this sector but, as someone in a position of power, he does need to do better. He needs to make the harder choice here, prioritizing the lives he can realistically save over the Happy Ending he wants.

However, in the face of their criticism Anakin just digs in his heels and, to be frank, comes across as delusional at best, downright dangerous at worst. Again, despite this choice defending (some) others, he’s being selfish: “I can’t let them do that.” He’s prioritizing his own conscious over the logic of the situation and the lives of his men. And he’s appropriately called out for that too.

This is a flaw that Anakin needs to work on, not something heroic the audience is meant to praise. So far he’s in nearly an identical position to Team RWBY, insisting on a suicide mission despite everyone else around him laying out precisely why that’s a death wish and, therefore, a very bad move. Emotionally we understand why Anakin wants to fight, but the story reminds us that what we want is not necessarily what we (and everyone else) needs, even if it seems so at first glance. The generalized “defending this sector is a Good Thing” simply can’t hold up against the undeniable danger of choosing to fight. To him. To his men. To his padawan. To the war. Anakin’s noble desires mean nothing in the face of an impossible situation. He simply has no way to win.

The difference between this scene and RWBY’s - the key, crucial, AMAZING difference - is this line right here:

At the very end of the scene we establish that Anakin does have a plan. He’s not risking everyone’s lives on the illogical hope that they’ll win because they’re the good guys, he’s banking on an actual strategy he’s come up with. Now, in a show where this dilemma is more central to the story we’d want to hear precisely what this plan is and weigh it against the established dangers. However, as said this fight only takes up about 5 minutes of screen time in a 7 season show. This dilemma is only setup for the primary conflict of finding R2, so we’re able to skip the explanation and instead have the plan function as a fun reveal for the audience. How will Anakin get them out of this situation? We’ve already established that he can, now it’s just a matter of showing how. Unlike Team RWBY, Anakin is able to justify this choice to everyone around him. The people he’s asking to fight beside him and risk their lives. He’s able to prove that this battle isn’t as impossible as it seems.

Crucially though, even the audience isn’t investing blind trust in Anakin. Later on, his strategic nature is worked into the surrounding plot. We’re shown how good he is at coming up with plans, thus lending support to the audience’s belief that he’s truly come up with a way to beat Grievous here as well as providing in-world support for why others would trust him to this extent. Not only did Anakin provide a concrete, smart, doable plan to justify going on this “suicide mission,” he has a track record of using this sort of strategy successfully in almost every battle. In contrast, the last time Team RWBY implemented a plan was... volumes ago? They don’t use strategy to beat the Ace Ops. They don’t fight together at Haven. They kept hitting Tyrian head-on until they lost. The closest thing we’ve gotten to strategy lately is the Nuckelavee battle which amounted to “Hold him down so we can hit him as opposed to just hitting him.” There’s been very little lately to convince us that Team RWBY can get themselves out of tight situations via intellect like Anakin can. More significantly, Anakin didn’t just rely on his reputation as a smart guy. There was no, “Trust me because I’m just that good” which, again, is what Team RWBY demands of Ironwood: trust us despite our disloyalty and our lack of a plan. Trust us despite everything telling you you shouldn’t. Anakin has been faithful to his allies, proven his ability in the past, and - though it happens off screen - is able to lay out logical reasons for taking this risk. For all his playful arrogance, he knows he’s not going into that battle unless he can provide a persuasive reason as to why he’ll win.

Despite having a plan, despite successfully pulling it off, Anakin still makes mistakes and still needs a great deal of help from others throughout this episode. His impulsive move to go after Grievous means Rex has to rescue him and results in him losing R2, a MAJOR consequence for him. Later on, Anakin needs to be rescued by Ahsoka and Rex again. At no point does the story insist, “Anakin is capable of soloing everything because he’s one of the main characters.” Or worse, show us how much help he needs and then retconning it later (looking at you, “We don’t need adults” scene).

Anakin is not only shown to have flaws but exists in a story that continually calls him out on them, allowing him to grow. In his despair over losing R2 he starts threatening this ship captain. In a story like RWBY that behavior would be excused because the audience knows the captain is a bad guy. AKA, the sort of situation we got with Cordovin: it’s totally fine for Team RWBY to steal from her because she’s racist, attributing a connection between these two actions when, in reality, there is none. Here though, Ahsoka reminds Anakin that he can’t treat people this way simply because he’s upset/doesn’t like them. The captain acting like a slimy asshole does not justify threatening him with a lightsaber, in the same way that being a racist asshole doesn’t justify taking headshots at Cordovin and destroying her city’s primary means of defense. Here, The Clone Wars allows for even main characters to make mistakes and acknowledges those mistakes in a way that neither demonizes them nor acts like those mistakes don’t matter. Or tries to present them as heroic.

At the end of the episode we get to see precisely how much R2′s disappearance is still eating at Anakin,

but crucially he’s not risking his life, the life of his padawan, his subordinates, and the war efforts in order to search for him based on... nothing. Anakin has nothing here. Nothing to go on except his personal belief - “I know it” - that R2 survived and him hearing a droid beep on the ship. Which, as Ahsoka points out, sounded just like any other droid. Logically there’s no reason for anyone to believe that R2 survived and thus no basis for risking so much in order to find him. When Anakin is told to continue the war efforts, he does. He might not like it, but he follows orders. He recognizes that these orders are smart based on their current information. Up until there’s proof of R2′s survival, he can’t drop all his other responsibilities to go on an aimless search for him.

Why is Anakin heroic here? Because he has faith in R2 while likewise continuing his duties as a Jedi/war general. His conflict is that he wants to go looking for R2 yet knows that he can’t. He has a duty to those around him and he’s made promises he has to keep. A less responsible, less mature group - like Team RWBY - would ditch their superiors and follow that hunch of theirs, risking a great deal in the process, which the story would then reward them for by revealing that, of course, the character they assumed had to be alive actually was. But that doesn’t mean they were right to be reckless in the first place. Or that their faith was well-founded and not just denial. In the previous five episodes we have seen Anakin disobey orders, most notably in “Rising Malevolence” when he teaches Ahsoka how to do the things she believes in (like searching for survivors) without outright butting heads with her superiors. They find a middle ground. A compromise, searching for survivors in a pit-stop fashion and then agreeing to catch up with the rest of the fleet when they don’t find anything. It’s only Ahsoka suddenly sensing Plo Koon that changes their minds. Now, with evidence, they have a reason to continue their pursuit, disobeying orders in the process. Even then we end the episode with Anakin joking about how if he’s going to get in trouble for this, so is Ahsoka. Their easy-going banter implies that their superiors are level-headed people - they understand the emotional reasons why they searched for survivors in the first place and are no doubt persuaded by their reasons for staying - but they still disobeyed orders. That comes with consequences and everyone involved will shoulder those consequences together.

We get a similar situation regarding searching for R2 at all. Once again, Anakin’s personal feelings are at the forefront of his decision making. His emotional investment in R2 as an individual blinds him to the larger picture. Indeed, that investment is presented as both a flaw and a strength. Allowing R2 to keep his memory is a HUGE threat to the war effort and (again) Anakin is called out for risking so much. At the same time, Ahsoka establishes that this choice isn’t entirely selfish one - I personally want R2 to stay as he is because he’s my friend, no matter how many lives that risks - but a practical one as well. R2 having that information makes him a great asset, demonstrated beautifully when he’s chucking assassin droids out of airlocks (established as deadly a few minutes earlier) and R3, the newer model with faster computing, can’t even open a door. Admittedly, Goldie’s competence is complicated by him being a traitor. We don’t know how much was a mistake and how much deliberate sabotage. However, Ahsoka is still correct that R2 is far more competent than the average droid and that’s at least partly due to him developing via maintaining his memory. Ahsoka’s words invite Obi-Wan to weigh the pros and the cons here. Is R2′s assistance and his individuality worth more than the threat he poses if they lose him? Obi-Wan, who previously claimed he was “just” a replaceable droid, implies that it is because he doesn’t order Anakin to wipe his memory if he finds him. He may still order R2′s destruction later because, as established, they’re not on a rescue mission, but he is starting to see this droid as more than just a tool. The main take-away though is that the story skillfully creates a situation where, for a time, the same action feeds two different motivations. Obi-Wan wants to find R2 for the Republic’s safety. Anakin wants to find him because R2 is his friend. Here he’s allowed to follow orders while still doing what he feels is right and we get to see how happy that makes him.

Then when the situation changes and Anakin’s orders no longer align with his desires... he puts those desires aside. A least for a time. Because he’s a Jedi. He’s a general. He’s in the middle of a war that’s far bigger than himself. Obviously the story eventually rewards his faith/desires by returning R2 to him, but that’s not because Anakin immediately risked everything else in the process. He took no action until he had evidence that R2 was nearby, very conveniently held in the same place he was ordered to find. The end of “Duel of the Droids” is very explicit about both sides of this debate: Anakin did risk the lives of everyone under his command (indeed, two Clones died) and Ahsoka agrees that he was reckless in disobeying orders, even if it was done under the expectation that they’d finally found R2. Anakin pushes back that R2 is more than just a droid, he’s a friend, and he had faith that Ahsoka would carry the mission without him. We as the viewer can push back further with Ahsoka taking on Grievous alone and nearly dying: she never would have been put in that position if Anakin hadn’t left the mission to find R2. And on and on. They’re both right in regards to some aspects and wrong in regards to others, and still other parts have no “right” answer, providing a complex look at this highly debatable situation and allowing the viewer to draw their own conclusions. For all his (uh, rather massive lol) mistakes to come, here and now Anakin is a great protagonist, someone who is heroic while also allowed to be flawed. To me that’s far more compelling than giving us “heroes” who continually harm others in the name of “what’s right” and only get by via the grace of the plot.

TL;DR: I’ve only watched six episodes of this series and already, from a writing perspective, RWBY could only hope to be half of what The Clone Wars is

#RWBY #rwde #the clone wars #TCW #Star Wars #mymetas

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dettiot · 4 years

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Ceasefire

Some married people sexy-times ahead, FYI!

My Star Wars Fic Masterlist

XXX

As she stood waiting on the landing platform, Padme felt a rush of emotion. A two-month ceasefire had been agreed between the Republic and the CIS, and she couldn’t help hoping this was the first step towards peace. Even though Chancellor Palpatine had been rather truculent in agreeing to the ceasefire, Padme didn’t want to give up hope of this war coming to an end sooner, rather than later.

So that she could have Anakin home for good, instead of just two months.

Catching sight of the Twilight, Padme beamed and braced herself. Anakin’s ship seemed like it had barely touched down before he was striding down the landing ramp, an equally broad smile on his face.

“Padme,” he said as he picked her up, spinning her around.

“Ani,” she said before she kissed him deeply. He kissed her back, his arms strong and solid around her, supporting her weight easily.

“Two whole months,” he said, nuzzling her.

She kissed him quickly, smiling against his lips. “I know. I’m so excited.”

Pulling back to look at her, Anakin stroked her cheek. “Me, too. It’s going to be wonderful.”

XXX

“Padme,” Anakin whined as she got out of bed at seven-thirty. “I just got home, and you’re going to work?”

“I wish I could stay,” she said sincerely. “But there’s an important piece of legislation today, on clone rights, and--”

“And everyone knows isn’t going to pass because of the Trade Federation, the Business Guild, and the Kamino voting block are in opposition?”

Padme stared at her husband, blinking. “What?”

“The clones have been talking about nothing else for the last two weeks,” he said, running his flesh hand through his hair. “And they’re all disappointed the Senate can’t get something worked out.”

Sighing softly, Padme perched on the edge of the bed. “I am, too, Ani,” she said, cupping his face in her hand. “I think it’s despicable that we haven’t made provisions for the clones, and if I could, I would make it happen with a snap of my fingers.”

Anakin sighed, too, and turned his head to kiss her palm. “I know you would, angel. I’m sorry for whining.”

“I’m sorry for having to leave,” Padme said. She kissed his forehead. “I’ll be back later tonight. You probably have to go to the Temple soon, don’t you?”

He groaned and nodded. “Yeah. But . . . I could sneak over tonight.”

Padme smiled at him. “Yes, please.”

Suddenly, she was pulled down against his chest and Anakin’s lips were warm and soft and firm against hers. Padme half-gasped, half-laughed. “I would have thought such sneaky actions were beneath a Jedi?”

“Perhaps, but I’m also a general and I know how to press my advantage,” Anakin said with a grin before kissing her again.

“And your luck,” she said with a giggle as she broke the kiss and pushed away from him. “Later, love.”

He gave her a lazy grin as he leaned back, watching her as she moved around the room.

XXX

“Ani--oh, stars, don’t stop--oooooh,” Padme moaned before pressing her hand against her mouth, holding back the sounds trying to break free from her throat.

Under her desk and beneath her skirts, Anakin kept up his actions. Her hips arched and her other hand grasped the arm of her chair as she tried to reach her peak.

Then he twisted his fingers inside her and scraped his teeth against her clit and Padme came, pressing down against his face.

“I--I can’t believe--you did that--in my office,” Padme said between huge gulps of air.

Anakin came out from under her desk, smiling a Loth-cat who got the kiros-bird smile. “I’ve always wanted to.”

Smiling back, Padme pulled him down for a kiss.

XXX

Slowly, she woke up, wondering what was going on. Loud panting from the other side of the bed made her turn her head. The fog of sleep vanished as she realized the panting was coming from Anakin.

Crouched over his knees, he was breathing heavily and shivering in the cool air. When she tossed back the covers and moved to wrap her arms around him, she found his back and sides covered in sweat.

“Ani? Love?” she whispered, pressing a kiss to his shoulder.

“I’m fine,” he said, his voice raspy and hoarse. “Go back to sleep.”

She shook her head. “No. You need me.”

His head lowered, his shoulders slumping, before he rested his flesh hand over her joined hands on his chest. “I do. All the time, Padme.”

“I’m here, love,” Padme said, moving even closer to him. She stroked his hair. “Was it a nightmare?”

“Yes,” he said after a few moments.

“Do you want to talk about it?”

He moved his head in a slow shake, and Padme rested her face against his back. Her Anakin had the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders, and she wished there was a way she could lift his burdens from him.

But all she could do was hold him as he slowly banished the fears that she knew he had. Because Padme knew her husband wasn’t really the Man with No Fear. He was simply a man who was always trying to outrun those fears.

She worried what would happen when they finally caught up with him.

XXX

Anakin pressed a soft kiss against her temple. Padme smiled and looked up at him. He smiled back and wrapped his arms a bit tighter around her.

“This is nice,” he said with a sigh, shifting back a bit further into the depths of the sofa. From her position cuddled against him, Padme fully agreed.

“So what kind of holo-film would you like to watch?” she asked, using the controller to scroll through the options. “Ooh, I’ve been wanting to see this one,” she said, pausing on the listing for Argosy. “Have you heard about it? It’s all about this Jedi single-handedly rescuing a group of Coruscanti citizens when the planet they’re on falls under an evil dictator.”

His chest rumbled against her back. “Do we have to watch something so serious?” he asked. He plucked the controller from her hand and moved down a few listings. “What about We’re No Jedi? It’s an old comedy about three convicts escaping and helping a Wookie family have a happy Life Day.”

“Um . . .” Padme said slowly, looking up at him.

Anakin’s lips twisted into a smirk. “Are you trying to tell me I have lousy taste in holo-films, angel?”

“No, no, I didn’t say that,” she objected quickly. “I just fall asleep during black-and-white holo-films.”

“Don’t worry. I’ll keep you awake,” he said, leaning down to kiss her neck.

Somehow, they didn’t manage to watch a holo-film that evening.

XXX

“Whatcha doin’, angel?”

A bit harder than necessary, Padme scrolled through the document she was trying to read on her datapad. “Reading,” she said shortly.

Anakin huffed out a breath, flopping back on the couch. One foot kept tapping against the floor, a constant soft thump that made Padme want to throw the datapad at him.

“Maybe you should meditate,” Padme suggested, hoping for a half hour of peace and quiet.

“Nah,” Anakin said, folding his arms over his chest. Trying to hold back her sigh, Padme started reading the same paragraph over, again. Then suddenly, she couldn’t read, because a large mech hand was covering the screen of her datapad.

“Anakin!” she barked. “Stop that!”

He pulled his hand away and slumped back again. “I’m bored,” he said. “I’ve fixed everything in the apartment, I’ve meditated . . . there’s nothing for me to do. And you keep working.”

“Are you saying you think I work too much?” she asked, hearing the ice in her voice.

To his credit, Anakin frowned and then quickly shook his head. “No! No, that’s not what I’m saying, Padme. I just . . .”

His voice sounded so mournful that Padme couldn’t help putting aside her datapad. “You just what?”

“I . . .” he started, his eyes dropping to the floor. “I just . . . I don’t know what to do if there’s no battles going on. If I’m not being a general . . . I’m not much of a Jedi.”

“Ani,” Padme breathed out, reaching out and taking his shoulders, turning him to face her. “You know that’s not true. You are an amazing Jedi.”

He shrugged a little. “The Council only sees me as a soldier. A weapon. Not . . . not a person.”

“Obi-Wan doesn’t think of you like that,” Padme countered. “Nor does Ahsoka, or Master Plo Koon, or Master Fisto, or--”

“But that’s how Master Yoda and Master Mace see me,” he interrupted. “And they’re the ones that count on the Council.”

Shifting closer to him, Padme stroked his hair. “That might be how it seems, but I know that’s not how it is. And I don’t believe that the Council only thinks of you as a soldier. They know you’re more than that. And I know it, too. You are an amazing Jedi, Anakin Skywalker.”

For a long, endless moment, he didn’t look at her. Then, oh-so-slowly, he lifted his eyes to hers, and they were shining with love and hope and belief.

Love for her. Hope that she was right. Belief that she was right.

Padme leaned in and kissed Anakin slowly and deeply, pouring all of that love and hope and belief inside her into his mouth. Wishing, not for the first time, that she had the Force and could wrap him in a blanket of her love.

But she couldn’t, so she just had to content herself with showing her love to him in other ways.

XXX

The cool breezes of Coruscant whipped his robes around both of them, and Padme pressed herself deeper into Anakin’s arms.

“I’m going to miss you so much,” she said softly.

“Me, too, angel,” he said, pressing a soft kiss against her hair.

“I know this ceasefire hasn’t always been easy for you, but--but I’m so glad you came home to me,” she whispered.

Gently, he cupped the back of her head and pulled her face away from his shoulder so he could look at her. “Padme . . .”

“No, don’t say it,” she said quickly, sensing he was about to say something that would sound like “goodbye.”

She wasn’t ready for him to make his goodbyes to her. She would never be ready for that.

“I love you,” Padme said, going up on her toes and kissing him softly.

He kissed her back just as softly, breathing into her, and Padme clutched his shoulders tightly.

“I love you, too,” he said, pulling away from her.

It felt much colder on the landing platform now, without his robes wrapped around her.

Doing her best to smile, Padme gazed at him. “Don’t get into too much trouble, love. And be nice to Obi-Wan. Don’t give him more gray hairs.”

He grinned, just a little, even though his eyes were sad. “I’ll try, but he is getting old, you know.”

She let out a little laugh, and Anakin’s grin changed to a soft smile. “See you soon, angel.”

Padme nodded emphatically. “See you soon, Ani.”

And with that, her husband turned and walked away slowly towards the Twilight. But then, he stopped, and Padme took a step towards him, and--

And they were in each other’s arms, kissing and touching for just a little bit longer, before he pulled away again.

“When I come back, I’ll visit you in your office again,” he said with a grin, before hopping up onto the landing ramp.

Her shocked “Ani!” was lost in the sound of the Twilight’s engines starting, and Padme couldn’t help smiling as she watched him leave. Even as she felt that pinch between her shoulder blades, for the first time in two months, that meant she was worrying about Anakin.

It wouldn’t go away until he came back to her.

End.

#anidala #padme amidala #anakin skywalker #star wars

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radicalposture · 5 years

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Hi what do you mean by padmé being as flawed as anakin? I'm intrigued!

I feel like fans tend to put padme up on this pedestal like she’s this amazing flawless woman who never did anything wrong and anakin is the horrible man who destroyed her and if it wasn’t for him etc etc but really that’s not really what we get in the films

1. She’s super privileged and doesn’t ever really examine that. Ok she was elected queen and not born into royalty but she was still. A queen. On a planet that compared to some places in the galaxy is a utopia and she doesn’t work super hard at unlearning any of that. Like sure she’s kind and hates injustice and helps refugees and advocates for peace and democracy but for who! For the slaves on tattooine and in the outer rim? Because she sure took advantage of shmis hospitality and her son winning them the money to escape and free her planet and then spent the next ten years and all her political power and (one assumes) personal wealth uh, forgetting the woman existed. granted the politics in Star Wars are not very u know. Radical at the best of times but come ooonnn. and point b) did she care about the gungans until she needed them....... did she really...... corollary 2 this but she is super sheltered and naive and has spent her whole life in a political dream world of abstracts and ideas and anakin is a very needed antidote to this I think

2. she’s nuts about anakin and would literally do anything for him, like he would for her. They’re so besotted with each other and her judgement is so flawed when he’s in the picture. as the gifset I just reblogged points out obi wans all ‘padme would never betray her ideals for u anakin’ but she does that aaaalllll the time including a) MARRYING HIM and not only living a lie so they can have the best of both worlds but also can u imagine how politically dicey that is?? if it had come out that a prominent and originally opposition senator is married to a jedi general and they’ve presumably been swapping state and military secrets over brunch?? That’s bad! b) as we see in the clone wars constantly compromising her personal and political beliefs to keep him safe c) MUSTAFAR. like after hearing that her husband has gone off the rails and has allied himself with the dark forces that be and started murdering kids what’s her reaction?? to confront him? Trap him? Kill him? NAH she’s there to RUN AWAY WITH HIM. d) sorry just remembered their picnic where anakins like ‘well I think we should have a dictatorship really’ and she’s like ‘haha.... he’s cute tho...’ like ok! yes that’s not really the context of the line but REALLY.

3. I think on some points she’s just as guilty of misunderstanding anakin as obi wan is. She wants him to be happy but she’s projecting her own ideas of what that looks like into him and not listening to what he wants. What anakin really wants and expresses multiple times esp in Episode III is 1. To leave the jedi and 2. Be a stay at home dad and be happy with his wife and kid(s) but every time he expresses this she’s like ‘no the republic needs you you’re too important to the war, to the jedi’ and anakin just goes ‘ok :(‘ like anakin is deeply insecure I know he looks like a rebel on the outside but when has he ever done anything of his own volition. even in episode ii he wouldn’t go to his mother until padme told him to! he wouldn’t go rescue obi wan until padme told him to! He never does anything he wants he only does what he thinks other people want from him and instead of supporting him she’s playing into that (because she wants to keep her job and position even though she knows she’s kind of forfeited that.....?)

I think recognizing her flaws is important as well because it makes her relationship with anakin a lot less. Bad. There’s kind of this perception of her as a wise mature woman saddled with an emotionally inept man child when in some ways anakins more mature than her. They complement each other very well and the tragedy of their relationship is that outside forces exploit the fatal flaws in their relationship that a kinder universe would have allowed them to work on and heal. Like in a universe where anakin never fell but order 66 still happened they could have grown so much, padme having to live on the run and unlearning her privilege and realizing the lived daily reality for the majority of the galaxy, anakin learning to let go and having the kids to protect to ground him,,...... I’m too sad where was I..,

So yeah im not saying I don’t like her because I love her a lot and I’m not saying she’s not a good person because she is - but literally everyone in star wars and especially in the pt is so deeply flawed in different ways and that’s what makes them so compelling!! it’s so much more interesting this way and I like padme soooo much more after realizing how much more of an equal footing she and anakin are on and how human she is

#thank u im so in the modd to talk about star wars....#star wars

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thevagueambition · 4 years

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I was tagged by @antirococoreaction to talk about five male characters I love

(God, only five? However will I choose between my boys >_< ?!)

This is most certainly not going to be a literary as your offerings, lmao. When it comes to literary fiction I mostly like Kafka and Kafka, by the nature of his writing, writes thoroughly unlikable characters.

This got way too long bc I’m incapable of not gushing about my faves when given the chance lol

Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender

It is my enduring opinion that if you want to see a redemption arc done right, look at Zuko’s arc in The Last Airbender. He’s a scared, abused kid who managed to build up personal morals in a system that discouraged them, and was harshly punished for daring to voice them. He’s someone who always wanted to be good, but struggles with defining what good is, given that his culture and upbringing has taught him one thing, but his heart (and his uncle) tells him another, and his new experiences reinforces that. After he figures out what “good” looks like, he’s always held accountable for his past actions. He makes amends, and he accepts it, for the most part, when people aren’t ready to receive them. His anger issues, as well as how he sees himself as someone who had to be hardworking because he isn’t talented (however far from the truth that may or may not be in reality) are also aspects of him that appeal to me and indeed that I relate to.

Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars

My love for Anakin is not dissimilar to my love for Zuko, though the quality of the writing in question certainly is. I love an edgy boy, is what I’m getting at, I guess :’D More seriously, Anakin’s story is ultimately one about control, which is a subject that interests me quite a bit. Anakin is never, at any point, really in control of his own life. He’s never really truly free. He’s born a slave, he joins the Jedi Order and he becomes Palpatine’s apprentice. He always exists within rigid systems of control, until his very lasts moments with Luke before he dies. With how Palpatine essentially groomed him, thinking of Anakin as equally a victim of Palpatine and a perpetuator of his (metaphorically speaking) abuse is also interesting to me. Certainly his clearly distorted thinking (eg convincing himself he can’t trust Obi-Wan, for instance) is also hugely important to his appeal to me. Also? He’s SO EXTRA I can’t with him lol

(That’s your LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM you turned off, Anakin!!! I know you’re depressed and dissociated and also The Drama but damn!!!!!!)

Nicodemus Ravens from The Shamer Chronicles (Skammerens børn)

The Shamer Chronicles is a series of Danish fantasy books for kids, and probably the most popular books of that type (particularly the first book, The Shamer’s Daughter). Nico is a major character, though never a POV one.

Nico was, essentially, abused by his father for not living up to the male gender role. He didn’t want to learn to use a sword, he didn’t want to kill, and his father hated him for it. As a result, he’s a teenage alcoholic and profoundly at war with himself. He constantly have other people telling him narratives about who he is/should be: first, he’s the younger son who should bring his father glory, then he’s the heir unfit for the throne, then he’s, depending on the political position of the character in question, either a monstrous murderer who must be killed by the glorious leader or the rightful heir to throne, a hero ready to bring war to his enemy and liberate his people, then rule them in benevolence.

Nico doesn’t want to be any of those things. He knows who he is, is stubborn about it, but also can’t shake the belief that his relative pacifism is really just cowardice. I’m just going to quote one of my favourite scenes here (forgive the translation, it’s my own, I don’t have the official one at hand):

“[...] They want a hero, I think.”

“Is that so bad? It’s better than being a monster, at any rate.”

“You think? Have you noticed how often heroes die in battle? Of course everyone mourns them afterwards and write beautiful ballads about them, but the heroes remain dead. Stone-dead. And I’m in no hurry to get on my white steed and start slaughtering people until someone better or luckier than I sticks a sword in me. No, thank you.”

He looked both obstinate and shameful, as if he thought he really should get on his white steed and all of that. I could understand why he didn’t want to die, and yet… Well, I think I’d always expected him to return to the Lowlands to fight Drakan at some point.

“What do you want, then?” [...]

“I just want to be me,” he whispered. “Is that so terrible? I just want to be Nico and not a lot of other people’s hero or monster.”

Anyway there are Two Crimes when it comes to Nico: the fact he isn’t gay in canon and how so many adaptations turns him into the Generic Fantasy Hero he’s a very conscious subversion of in the books (the other principle male character is essentially someone who’s hurt by toxic masculinity as someone who buys into it, while Nico ofc is hurt by it because he doesn’t/can’t, so the series certainly had an opinion about it).

Albus Dumbledore from Harry Potter

Dumbledore is, to me, someone who chose what was good for the world over his own happiness. He chose to be the one to dirty his hands, the one two make the terrible decisions, do the terrible things, that were necessary in the battle against facism. There is something very brave and admirable about that to me. It’s not that he never did anything wrong, he certainly did, but again, I think he was very aware of the terrible things he was doing, and part of the reason he keeps everything so close to his chest is because he doesn’t want anyone else to have to make those decisions, to have to feel that blood stain their hands. Dumbledore loves the people in his care profoundly, he loves Harry profoundly. And it kills him to have, as Snape puts it, “brought him up like a pig for slaughter”.

Whether something is morally justified and whether it’s necessary to prevent evil are two different questions, and I don’t think Dumbledore feels particularly justified, but I do think he does what he perceives to be necessary to prevent facism. And hates himself for the decisions he takes along the way. And all of that comes back to, to some extent, his survivor’s guilt over the death of Arianna and the profound wake up call that was Grindelwald 1) turning on his family 2) being a very violent fascist, rather than just a theoretical one like teenage!Dumbledore was. In his mind, Dumbledore is already condemned for what happened when he was 18, so it’s better that it be he who takes the terrible things upon himself than an “innocent.” It’s better that he try to atone. Dumbledore is working towards a redemption he never (to his mind) arrives at.

In regards to his sexuality, Dumbledore was certainly written with the trope of a “tragic old closeted gay” in mind, but of course JKR never made anything much canon aside from his “flamboyant” sense of style (that the movies have ROBBED us of >:( ) and hobbies, so to a certain extent, I get to ignore that homophobic intent. In the books themselves, the only thing you can really read between the lines is that Dumbledore was in love with Grindelwald, not whether it was 1) reciprocated 2) acted upon, so with only the canon, we also get to mitigate some of the Implications of “Dumbledore dated Wizard Hitler for a while”....

I mean I do Love Mess(tm) so Dumbledore having that terrible wake up call is certainly also part of the appeal for me. Personally I enjoy the interpretation that Grindelwald deliberately manipulated Dumbledore’s feelings.

Captain Flint/James McGraw from Black Sails

BE GAY DO CRIME BE GAY DO CRIME BE GAY DO CRIME BE-- *coughs*

As you might guess from my description of Dumbledore, a lot of the reasons I love Flint are similar to why I love Dumbledore (and Solas, but we won’t go in to Solas rn lol). Flint is also someone who chooses to do the terrible, necessary things, who chooses the fight over his personal moral cleanliness. In a more obvious and extreme way than Dumbledore, certainly, but the principle is essentially the same. Of course, Flint’s fight is personal in a completely different way from how Dumbledore’s is. Flint’s fight is simoultaneously his revenge, a fight against the corrupt system that ruined his life and a fight for something better. Dumbledore is defensive, Flint is offensive.

The self-integrity he has is truly amazing. He’s cast aside by everyone but Miranda, and yet he never starts thinking he has anything to apologise for. To ask for a pardon would be to ask for forgiveness, and he doesn’t think he needs to be forgiven. Not for loving Thomas, not for anything he did while he was still English. He perceives the reality of the situation, he sees what is right and what is wrong, and he knows that he is the wronged party. He stares at the behemoth of the entire social structure of his world and says: No. You move. I am not in the wrong. England should apologise to me.

Flint is my angry gay dad and I love him.

I tag (as always, completely optional ^^ ): @teddy-stonehill @thebearmuse @andvaka @solitarelee @gallifreyanathearts @sinni-ok-sessi @melle93 @papanden @seimsisk

I feel a bit dishonest leaving Grantaire off of this list, lmao, but I talk about him enough as it is.

Other honorables mentions go to: Enjolras (Les Mis), Captain Jack Harkness (Doctor Who/Torchwood), Solas (Dragon Age), Fitzwilliam Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), Kim Kitsuragi (Disco Elysium), Harry Potter, Remus Lupin (Harry Potter) and my soap boys Robert Sugden (Emmerdale), Richard “Ringo” Beckmann (Unter Uns) and Ben Mitchell (Eastenders).

#someone: like a none edgy boy me: a what now #not that nico is that edgy #btw if i had been the type to name myself after fictional characters it would have 100% been nico #the movie adaptation does not deserve rights #also re dumbledore jkr is like ''he turned into a bit of a celibate after grindelwald'' and i'm like nah NAH fuck off #siggi rambles #tag meme #my meta

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starwarsforcestuff · 4 years

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10 for the star wars asks!!!

Thanks for the question! Question 10 is, “do you think the Jedi were right or wrong?”

Simply put, I do think they were right. Do I think they were perfect? No. Am I in the minority of people who believe this? I feel like it. I did a quick google search of that question to see what kind of responses are already out there in the world and the majority of results were overwhelmingly not in favor of the Jedi, even going as far as calling them the Saga’s true villains. Another reason I googled the question was that this is an extremely vague question, in what aspect are we talking about right and wrong. I will still try to break it down as specifically as possible. Go ahead and respond with more specific questions if you so choose!

Reason 1

One reason I wholly believe the Jedi are right and good is a quote from Master & Apprentice by Claudia Gray.

“It matters which side we choose. Even if there will never be more light than darkness. Even if there can be no more joy in the galaxy than there is pain. For every action we undertake, for every word we speak, for every life we touch—it matters. I don’t turn toward the light because it means someday I’ll ‘win’ some sort of cosmic game. I turn toward it because it is the light.”- Qui-Gon Jinn

The Force will always create events that balance each other out and if we all remember that iconic Freddie Prinze Jr rant he backs that up. If anyone hasn’t seen that rant here is Star Wars Theory’s reaction to it. You don’t have to watch his commentary I just couldn’t find an undoctored version and Star Wars Theory bleeps out the many many F-bombs Prinze drops.

youtube

“Luke’s skill doesn’t dictate whether he wins or loses. The Emperor doesn’t dictate whether he wins or loses. The Force dictates who wins or loses based on balance...[On the seduction of Anakin Skywalker] If the Emperor was the smartest dude in the universe and knows that the Force dictates this if he kills who he sees as a rival, Anakin, then he knows the Force is just going to f****** correct that. Because The Emperor knows this. These are George Lucas’ words, not mine...So the Emperor knows that. Instead of killing Anakin, what does he do? he seduces Anakin. To double the strength of the Dark Side. So what does the force do? It balances us. How? It gives us twins. Luke and Leia. Two and f****** two. Balance.”

While it was lengthy, somewhat redundant, and had multiple f-bombs, Prinze Jr arguments make a clear point. If the force will always course-correct itself it begs the question of why even choose? If every good action will always be met with an action of mal intention why does it matter? This is the very question Qui-Gon answers in that quote. What is the answer? Because even if doing good gets you nowhere you are still doing good. Good is good. Turn to the light because it is the light. I like to believe every Jedi had this mentality but considering Qui-Gon was speaking to another Jedi I can’t say that every Jedi believed this. Regardless, we do know that with this statement and Freddie Prinze Jr’s comments that the Jedi are supposed to be proponents of the light side. That is reason number 1, and probably the biggest reason I support the Jedi.

Reason two

Moral absolutism. There is the Light side and the Dark side. That is it. There is no in-between, a Jedi is either good or bad in which case they become a Sith. In Prinze Jr’s interview, he states, “There’s no such thing as a gray Jedi...There’s no gray! That’s pretend fan-fiction s***, which is cool but don’t try to canonize it because it doesn’t work and I’m never gonna buy it.” There are those, like Qui-Gon, who may interpret the code more loosely, but he is still a Jedi, not a “grey Jedi.”

In contrast to the Jedi though, in an interview with Alexander Freed, author of Alphabet Squadron, Battlefront: Twilight Company, and Rogue One, states that while you do have people like the Jedi and The Emperor, there are plenty of people in the Star Wars universe that lead mundane lives not really fighting one way or the other.

“It is a setting that has an absolute good and absolute evil...Yeah there is no moral ambiguity to Palpatine. Palpatine is a creature of pure darkness.”

In this interview, he mentions that the characters of Alphabet Squadron need to decide where their moral compass lies when they do live somewhere in the middle. It almost seems contradictory though because I would argue that if you are basing this argument on the metaphor of a compass, everyone who fights for the light would be good and everyone who fights for the dark side is bad, there would be no in-between like a spectrum where you would have “grey” areas. That also tarnishes the reputation of defectors like Yrica Quell, Finn, Archex (From Phasma and Black Spire), Iden Versio, Del Meeko, Jannah and the rest of company 77 who defected from the First Order or The Empire in Quell’s case. Using the spectrum argument, the fact that they even belonged to the dark side would tarnish them, give them “negative points” and never fully allow them to be absolutely good. They will always be held back by their past.

Here is the full Star Wars Show and interview.

youtube

The interview starts at 3:05 and ends at 6:32.

This is how we know The Empire was bad, The Imperials and the Sith are bad, The First Order was bad. They use the dark side and do unspeakable acts of horror even after the death of The Emperor with things like Operation Cinder. This is also how we know the Jedi are good and right. The Jedi fight against the dark side, they stand for truth and justice and peace. They may work outside the law, but I don’t see people having a problem with that when it comes to Batman or Superman or Captain America. The question though becomes do the means justify the end? I can’t answer that question because I think it should be situationally based i.e the destruction of the Death Star. The destruction killed thousands and thousands of people, but it could kill hundreds of millions more if not stopped. We know there was no other way, therefore I would argue that the means justified the end.

Reason 3

At the end of the day, Star Wars is a children’s story. It is a children’s story based on Greek Mythology and archetypes. In those stories, it is clear who is good and right and who is bad and wrong. We are the ones who have contorted this basic story to the point where we have questions like this. Am I mad that we have? Not in the slightest! discussing and analyzing works are really fun to do, but it is my belief that we as a fanbase have taken it too far that we ask questions like are the Jedi right or wrong, was the Empire actually good, are the rebels justified or were they just terrorists?

Not to deflect or belittle or suppress this question, but we know the Jedi are right because George Lucas says so. While I know a big criticism about my overall argument is “you can’t say the Jedi are right because they fight for the light and the Sith and the dark side are wrong,” all I have to ask is, if you have to justify genocide to prove your point (Order 66 and Operation Cinder) why in the world should I believe otherwise.

I am VERY open to FRIENDLY discussions about this. I even encourage more specific questions about the Jedi for better more in-depth answers if anyone is interested. Also, sorry I kind of rant in the middle about characters in general.

@fandom4fandom thank you very much for your ask! I hope you have a great day! May the Force Be With You!

Sidebar: I just finished Alphabet Squadron and I enjoyed it. I love reading about things that happen between the fall of The Empire and the rise of The New Republic and this gave me that. Battlefront II was really cool for me because that was my introduction to Operation Cinder and you had to play through it and Alphabet Squadron is a direct continuation of the wreckage and result of Operation Cinder.

#star wars #skywalker saga #jedi #lucasfilm #send me asks #ask me something #ask me literally anything #ask me

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letmetellyouaboutmyfeels · 5 years

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AND ANOTHER THING...

...I ranted about this to @extasiswings last night but nope nope I’m not over it so it goes here on my permanent record.

Garcia Flynn was a murderer and doesn’t deserve a happy ending!?

He was a villain!?

His relationship with Lucy was abusive!?

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ALL SMOKING YOU IGNORANT PEA-BRAINED MORONS WHO CLEARLY LACK THE SKILLS TO THINK CRITICALLY NEVER MIND PASS A FUCKING BASIC ENGLISH EXAM IN FRESHMAN YEAR AT A TWO-BIT COMMUNITY COLLEGE!?

Do you have any idea how many times a villain has been introduced and people just... woobify the fuck out of him?

I’m talking villains who threaten to rape the heroine, threaten to hurt her or torture her, torture her friends in front of her, deliberately hurt her or go out of their way to hurt her, gaslight her, manipulate her, lie to her, try to control her, and show no remorse for their actions and justify everything they’re doing?

I mean dear God look at the Phantom from Phantom of the Opera who starts his relationship with Christine by manipulating her through pretending to be her dead father and trying to control literally who she sees, when she sees them, how she spends her days, etc.

Meanwhile on the other hand we have Flynn who knew from the start what he was doing was wrong, never said that it wasn’t wrong and let it eat him up alive and hated himself for doing it but sacrificed his own morality and turned himself, by his own admission/words, into a “monster,” in order to defeat a greater evil. Flynn said he wasn’t worthy of seeing his family again after what he’d done and was doing, even though he was trying to only target y’know the members of an evil white supremacist cult who tried to control the world.

In regards to Lucy, Flynn a) never once lied to her b) grabbed her roughly by the arm twice c) never manipulated her or tried to gaslight her d) implored her to listen to him e) always let her rant at him--which she does several times, she’s never once scared of him and she lets him have it on quite a few occasions and he sits there and takes it--and f) whenever he lands her into trouble he always regrets it. In 1x04 and other instances where Flynn gets the time team into trouble he then always has an “oh shit” look on his face when he realizes just how much boiling water he’s dumped them into--it’s not so much a “mwahaha” moment as it is an, “I tried to put out this fire with water but I grabbed a bucket of gasoline instead.”

We could point out that he grabbed her by the throat and threw her out of the way to shoot Lincoln but even that isn’t “I’m deliberately trying to hurt you,” it’s “fuck shit get out of my way.” Flynn has several opportunities to hurt, torture, manipulate, lie to, and even kill Lucy and he never takes a single one of them, to the point where in 1x10 and 1x16 Lucy puts herself directly in front of his gun, knowing he won’t shoot her.

Even Wyatt, who Flynn ties up and uses as collateral--Flynn spends the whole time trying to get Wyatt on his side and honestly I highly doubt he would’ve really shot Wyatt. When Rufus is shot in 1x15, Flynn doesn’t even know that’s what’ll happen--he has no way of controlling that. And I’m sorry but y’all need to get over the whole shooting Lincoln thing. According to Lucy herself, Flynn was preserving history with that, and when we look at the fact that Lucy later does the exact same thing by shooting Jesse James to preserve history... yeah that doesn’t hold water anymore sorry.

Does Flynn have asshole moments where he’s total garbage? Um, yes. But he literally sacrifices his own humanity to save lives and fight an evil supremacist cult and spends his whole time trying to convince the heroes to help him. He struggles with it the whole time. He doesn’t sleep, he goes to churches to pray and ask for guidance, he feels alone and worthless.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Flynn is the tragic hero trope. The only reason he’s seen as a villain is that he’s not the POV character, Lucy is, and so we see things from her side. But if you look at the sequence of events objectively, Flynn’s the hero of the piece.

In fact, if Flynn was the main POV character, I can already hear in my head the misogyny that would be unleashed at Lucy. “How come she gave him the journal and now doesn’t believe him? Is she a double agent?” “Guys c’mon I don’t think she’s actively evil I think she’s just stupid.” “WHY ISN’T SHE LISTENING TO HIM GOD.” “Flynn has too much of a soft spot for Lucy bitch needs to go.” The Lucy wank would be epic. And I’m not saying that would be okay, God no--I’m saying that if you switch the POV characters, suddenly in everyone’s heads the positions of hero and villain are switched, too, and you know what that means?

It means Flynn was never a villain in the first place.

Anakin Skywalker is always the villain. The prequels show us how he became Vader but you don’t see anyone realizing his actions were okay or justified. It’s a tragic story because you see the humanity in him, but it’s still the story of a villain. How many Batman comics have there been that tell the Joker’s story? Dozens. But the Joker’s always still a villain in them. If a simple change in the POV is all it takes for an audience to switch allegiances, that should tell you a hell of a lot about the characters involved.

I’m going into all of this because it pisses me the fuck off that I’ve had to watch, on this very hellsite, people excusing villains left right and center. I mean look at your beloved Supernatural where the two main characters do so much questionable shit I can’t even bother to make a list. Look at OUAT... actually you know what let’s not do that, dear God. Look at Loki (as he was written by Whedon in the first Avengers film). I mean the list goes on and on and on. Fandom is wonderful but it also has a lot of problems and it’s willing to excuse every handsome white male villain or ambiguous or morally gray character no matter what the fuck they do...

...and then suddenly Flynn comes along and y’all have Puritan morality standards?

Maybe it’s subtle anti non-American, anti-Eastern European racism at work here. I don’t fucking know. But it pisses me off beyond belief that every villain on this fucking site gets an apology and a half and nobody has the critical thinking skills to support an actual Tragic Hero when he’s sitting right in front of your fucking faces.

#timeless #mads rants #timeless salt #I'm so done #y'all are fucking stupid ass hypocrites #I hate everything

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novakspector · 5 years

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Fans are allowed to feel let down and disappointed by something and vent about it. That isn’t what fan entitlement is. Fan entitlement is when fans start thinking that because they’ve invested in a story emotionally, purchased merchandise or otherwise supported something for years, that they’re entitled to have a say in the direction of the show and getting certain storylines, endings, ships or having personal headcanons validated. Nobody is entitled to any of that. But what I do feel everyone in the audience is entitled to is writing that is well done, intelligent, feels natural, is not out of character or jarring, and does justice to the rest of the show.

With Game of Thrones, I can accept the “Daenerys goes mad queen” plotline but they needed at least half of a regular season to let it play it out, if not a full season. Done right, it could have been great. The concept of getting so many characters and also part of the audience to root for a character who ultimately becomes the real villain of the story, is clever. If Star Wars had begun with Episode One instead of Episode Four, I think it would have been a similar journey with Anakin Skywalker. Having “Dany goes mad queen” take only 2 episodes and pointing to some past examples of her choosing violence as “foreshadowing” made it absurd. It just didn’t work. How the rest of the story wrapped up was just as bad.

Having the great houses of Westeros choose a new form of government just because Tyrion made a rather unconvincing and clichéd speech while he was in chains? Forced, fan service-y and idiotic. Having everyone instantly agree and not fight over it at all made it even worse. Everyone just accepting Northern independence for no reason? Stupid. All of that was completely out of character with the rest of the series. The houses that have been fighting for decades are not going to suddenly get along just because they faced an external threat, witnessed a genocide, and saw what a lust for power and a belief in one’s own righteousness can do to someone.

Having Jon go to the Wall even though a.) there’s no actual reason for the Night’s Watch to exist anymore & Westeros has jails, b.) they only agreed to this compromise with the Unsullied who are no longer in charge of the city, and c.) Dany’s army has disbanded and very few people in Westeros would view Jon negatively as a “Queenslayer” like Jaime, but see him a hero for what he did- so why has he been exiled to the Wall? Makes no sense.

I’m not that upset by the conclusion of the story, even though it was bland as fuck and made me feel absolutely nothing. What bothered me the most was the rushed, forced, and haphazard way they arrived at that conclusion. It did not feel like a natural progression of the story at all. George R.R. Martin told D&D how it ends and they had to reverse engineer the story to fit all it into 6 episodes, and that’s exactly what it felt like. As a viewer I shouldn’t be cognizant of the writing process while I’m watching something. It should be seamless. I felt about Season 8 and the finale, the same way I felt about how they handled the Dorne / Sandsnakes plotline. It just was not worthy compared to the rest of the show. Season 8 and the Dorne plot, was some clownworld dumbed down version of Game of Thrones, and the characters all deserved better.

#got spoilers #anti d&d #fandom #fan entitlement

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lj-writes · 6 years

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A reincarnation theory of Finn and Rey

I kind of subscribe to the idea that Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin. By this I don’t mean she’s a Skywalker or is Anakin himself, only that she has Anakin’s spirit returning to take care of unfinished business--and boy does that fucker have lots of it.

Maybe it’s my cultural background, but I was always confused when reincarnation was called a “parentage theory.” Reincarnated people, at least in the popularized version of Buddhism I grew up with, have their own parents and are not usually related by blood to their previous incarnation.

Heck, in this worldview reincarnation doesn’t even make Rey special, it’s just something everyone does until they throw off all worldly attachments and leave the cycle altogether. I would argue that Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and now Luke achieved this state but Anakin did not, for all his spirit appeared briefly next to Obi-Wan. I think Anakin still has too much to make up for, and this was a brief pit stop before he moved on. Between his death and rebirth as Rey I imagine he was reincarnated hundreds of times as, like, worms and lice that were painfully killed as a very small portion of the punishment he deserved for his actions as Anakin/Vader. Now that his spirit has advanced through these incarnations he was brought back as a human again because the galaxy needs his power and he can try and begin to make up for the harm he did.

Rey as Anakin’s reincarnation would explain a lot of things, like how she is so powerful in the Force and grasps new powers so quickly. It would also explain Kylo’s fascination with her, because as a Force user he can sense people’s souls and she is his actual idol brought back to life. Also like, her being forced to live for most of her life on a desert planet. If that’s not the universe playing a cosmic joke on Anakin Skywalker, noted sand-hater, idk what is.

On the same note, I imagine Finn as the reincarnation of Padmé. She probably had much better reincarnations between her death and being born as Finn, maybe she even took a break from corporeal life for a few decades or lived as a succession of beautiful flowering plants and beloved sad-eyed dogs while she tried to recover from the grief still in her soul. Maybe she was someone’s much-loved and short-lived child for a while because I have an evil imagination. When she was ready to come back as a sentient being she willingly took on more suffering than she deserved to try and make up for Anakin’s sins and her own perceived faults, and thus Finn’s kidnapping and long period of enslavement.

Like Padmé, Finn is a natural leader with firm conviction and unshakeable principles. He is a mean shot with a blaster, loyal to his friends, and inspires devotion in people. He was so sure that the galaxy would rise up against the First Order’s tyranny and rally around Leia, he was willing to give his life for that belief. It wasn’t just Leia that he so strongly believed in and supported--he also wanted to run out and help Luke against an entire army despite never having laid eyes on the man before in his life. Maybe not in his own life, but a previous one?

Much as Anakin’s soul seeks Padmé out, her spirit seeks him--and that’s why, in addition to Finn’s own goodness, he was drawn to help Rey at first sight, and why they hit it off so quickly despite a rocky start. The idea of being separated was unbearable to them after knowing each other only for a few hours, and when Finn saw Rey being carried off by a Dark Lord to face torture and a possible fall to the Dark Side, it shattered him and he moved heaven and earth to be by her side again.

Together they must succeed where their previous incarnations failed and save the galaxy from the fascist threat. They must also resolve what went wrong between them last time, and Rey already passed the first test by resisting Kylo’s temptation where Anakin had fallen to Palpatine’s wiles. Finn and Rey’s souls will always pull each other, yearning to find happiness together where they could not the last time around.

I’m not saying any of this is going to be some big dramatic reveal, it’s how I understand the dramatic motifs and characters. Stories of reincarnated romance are common in the culture I grew up in, and I find the idea of Finnrey as reincarnated Anidala terribly romantic and compelling.

#finnrey #meta #rey #rebelfinn #finn #anidala #padme amidala #anakin skywalker #space fights #the force awakens #the last jedi #reincarnation theory #first of all

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