#grey jedi philosophy

[revanknightwoman]

[antianakin]

Since people like throwing out "Gray Jedi" as some kind-of gotcha with a made-up definition to lift up their faves as better than all of the other Jedi, I think it's within the rules to make up my own definition of Gray Jedi to reduce my least faves as worse than all of the other Jedi.

"Gray Jedi" now means a person who is technically still a member of the Jedi Order, but is choosing not to follow their teachings or practices out of arrogance whenever it suits their selfish agendas. In other words, a Jedi in name only, but not in character or behavior.

So. Anakin. Anakin is a Gray Jedi. Say hello to Gray Jedi Anakin Skywalker, the Jedi Order's worst Jedi in history!

[kingofchaos777]

I’m a Gray Jedi And Proud

THERE IS NO LIGHT WITHOUT THE DARK, NOR DARK WITHOUT LIGHT.

THROUGH PASSION BOUND WITH PATIENCE, THERE IS KNOWLEDGE.

THROUGH KNOWLEDGE FORGED IN STRENGTH, THERE IS POWER.

THROUGH POWER ENTWINED WITH SERENITY, THERE IS HARMONY.

THROUGH HARMONY UNIFIED WITH CHAOS, THERE IS BALANCE.

THROUGH BALANCE, THERE IS THE FORCE.

THE FORCE SHALL SET US FREE.

[menaceborn]

ok so I'm seeing a ton of posts about the force / grey jedi on twt so this is just a reminder that regardless of what canon-canon, legends, lucas etc. says, personally I don't view the force as having any alignment or sentience or anything like that, and without extensive plotting it's not considered canon to my portrayal.

I don't really like the idea of midichlorians either (or even that people can be completely non-force sensitive) and I generally just lean on obi-wan's explanation of the force in a new hope ("It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together.").

I don't personally see there being a "right" and a "wrong" way to use the force (which is what I've seen some imply on twitter re. the jedi and the sith) or even a true light or dark side. I think using the force in certain ways can take a toll or otherwise show on your physical body, which is true for many things even in our world, and that's what we generally know as dark side corruption (the "sith" eyes, pale skin, etc.), but there is no true dark side, there is just the force.

[david-talks-sw]

George Lucas & Karen Traviss' visions of Star Wars are NOT the same...

So whenever I come across this image:

I keep in mind that it's from a book written by Karen Traviss, who is a brilliant author (I adored Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines and Sacrifice) but whose stance on Anakin, Yoda & the Jedi and Star Wars morality is this:

As opposed to George Lucas' stance on Anakin, Yoda & the Jedi and Star Wars' morality, which is this:

In a children's story about Light and Dark, good and evil, selflessness vs selfishness, George Lucas marks the Empire as absolutely evil and the Rebels as absolutely good, in the Original Trilogy.

In the Prequels, the situation is more complex (the Jedi are drafted into a war and forced to do things they know they shouldn't be doing, but have to for the greater good; the Sith bring about order to a corrupt government) but the morality stays the same... the selfish, greedy Sith are absolutely evil and the selfless, compassionate Jedi are absolutely good.

That's George's thesis.

And, as a character, Yoda's function is to deliver that thesis. It's no wonder why Lucas treats Yoda's words as absolutely correct:

Yoda is Lucas' mouthpiece in the Prequels, his self-insert.

George Lucas' narrative frames Yoda as objectively right.

So when Karen Traviss questions the Jedi, particularly Yoda's character and wisdom, she's disagreeing with George Lucas' thesis.

Which is fair. Traviss, is a different person than Lucas, she's an ex-journalist with a more "grey" view of the world and a different philosophy re: fiction aimed at children. "Death of the author" and all that. Again, fair enough.

And if you like Travis' interpretation and philosophy more than George's, if her read resonates with you more... also fair enough.

But the EU is not a reliable source on Lucas' vision.

I've talked about this in MUCH more detail here, but if you do care about George Lucas' vision, then maybe don't draw from the Expanded Universe, which includes content written by authors who expressly disagree with him, like Traviss.

Sounds logical, but for some reason people will read the above-posted Dooku quote and treat it as reflective of Lucas' vision, when it's not the case.

George Lucas' Dooku doesn't have an issue with Yoda or the Jedi (at least not openly, as Darth Tyranus, the Sith Lord he wants them all dead). Dooku's issue is with the Senate and the Republic.

George Lucas specifically added that most Jedi share Dooku's concerns. Before he's revealed to be a mass-murdering, Sith who enslaves neutral systems, the Jedi think he makes a good point and are even reluctant to consider him a murder suspect.

But let's not start saying that Lucas' Prequels are meant to be about "the Jedi's failure" and "Dooku being right that the Jedi are corrupt.

Because that's not the case.

If that's how you see them, great. It's certainly how Traviss saw them. To each their own, authorial intent be damned.

But it's not what they were about, to Lucas. Stating the contrary is... I dunno, lying? Rewriting history?

It's as if I got hired to write a Lord of the Rings prequel seen from Gandalf's POV. And y'know what, maybe I don't like Gandalf. So I write him as a scheming asshole going “myahahahah, fuck hobbits! I’m gonna let them keep the One Ring so a bunch Nazgûl will swoop through the Shire and murder them!” and suddenly, everyone starts writing posts about the notion that “Growing up is realizing that Tolkien always intended for Gandalf to be the secret villain of LOTR!” as if that had always been the case and I didn't just reframe him that way retroactively.

Finally, I'd also encourage you to read @rendar-writes' well-made point here about the fact that, while claiming she "doesn't give the answers", Traviss nonetheless shows a clear anti-Jedi bias.

[dalekofchaos]

I loved Baylan's character and I love Ray Stevenson's performance.

But I honestly think that role could've gone to Barriss Offee.

Barriss could've been the dark reflection of Ahsoka. Someone in the grey, but with something more dark with more of a philosophy than Jedi or Sith.

And Shin could've EASILY have been Barriss' apprentice.

The dark reflection of Ahsoka and Sabine, like it writes itself.

Nalini Krishan could've returned to play Barriss or Sheila Vand could be good as Barriss

I strongly feel like it was a mistake to just forget that Barriss even exists at all. Filoni did NOTHING with her. Now there is no role for her in this story.

[annaofaza]

This reminds me of this scene from TriStamp, where Legato's telling Wolfwood that in order to become the perfect tool for Knives and the Eye of Michael:

Wolfwood doesn't need love and connections; those need to die to be the best soldier. Chapel's espoused it, too. It's a fairly common theme for others (mostly elders but that's another meta) to call heroes to not be tethered to earthly attachments. (We see it in Avatar, for instance, and Star Wars... And look how well that ended up for the Jedi and Anakin.)

Evangelicals especially believe that perfect faith means living to go to heaven. To be a true believer means to commit yourself wholly to worship. You're not an individual. I think of Jane Grey's last letter to her sister, Katherine, before she was beheaded after refusing Queen Mary's offer to convert to Catholicism to save her life:

"[This Bible that she sent Katherine] will teach you to live and learn you to die ... Now as touching on my death, rejoice as I do, my dearest sister, that I shall for losing of a mortal life, win one that is immortal, joyful, and everlasting..."

Legato believes himself the perfect soldier for Knives, to whom he's devoted his life. And we all know how pretty obsessed and rabid he is to the mission. (You didn't need to invent the killing game, buddy.)

But emotions and connections are what makes us human! Legato and Chapel's philosophies are what Vash rejects! That's what his friends, both alive and deceased, have come to believe, who are arguably richer for having those things in their lives.

And Legato himself isn't immune to petty, earthly desires:

See also: Legato sobbing as he sees nearly-dead Knives post-July:

What does Legato get for his tears, his (pretty much) life-long devotion? Disgust, Knives telling him that it's "annoying," and to basically shut up. SPOILER: And ultimately, his own death.

What does Wolfwood get?

Still death—but genuine peace, knowing he's loved by his old home and his friend. Who buries him, who mourns him, who (figuratively—in '98, this is quite literal) carries him as a talisman to the end. I'd argue that Wolfwood is more fulfilled by his relationship with one of two so-called angels—in all his doubt, fear, anger, and cutting arguments.

And afterwards? SPOILER: Knives doesn't get a mourning panel for Legato or even a simple complaint of "you killed my best servant." Wolfwood is beloved. Wolfwood is remembered by Vash, by Livio, by the people of No Man's Land (so says "Les Enfants"). Wolfwood is the one who's immortal.

I mean, at the end of the day, you can argue: Who cares? Both of them are dead. That's fair enough. But I think Nightow is conveying much, much more than that.

Side note: In terms of full individual sacrifice, the Bible says different things. (What else is new?) Via Jesus: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.” and also “Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’” So fuck if I know.

[val-aquenta]

The series is called tales of the Jedi. And yet it’s about Ahsoka and Dooku. Two ex-Jedi. Whyyyyyyy????? (It’s because Filoni thinks Ahsoka is what a Jedi should be huh………ugh)

Give me actual Jedi content not bullshit that is called tales of the Jedi but misinterprets what a Jedi is and what they do. No more special grey Jedi oc bullshit Filoni keeps putting out. I want to see Jedi being Jedi in a show which is named after them. Maybe this even gets to explore the Force and Jedi philosophy, something no one producing this stuff seems to know. Not two ex Jedi mucking about while you build a story which low-key says the Jedi are to blame for their genocide and the rise of the empire.

[unleashthegoats]

Hey y'all! Loved the new episode, and wanted to chip in on one of the later points - videogames, especially in relation to the "Grey" Jedi concept. Knights of the Old Republic II really did some irreversible damage in that regard, as much as I love the game (though I prefer the first one). Kreia is one of the most central characters in regard to shifting morality debates in Star Wars (in universe and from fans alike) imo, and I'd honestly be super interested in hearing you three cover either or both of the games in the podcast, although I understand that's highly unlikely since none of you have played them. But she is extremely relevant to this topic because she preaches about neutrality and that there's more than just ~dogmatic thinkings of light and dark~, and your relationship with her suffers if you are kind and altruistic and get too rooted in the light side and she's like...one of *the* characters that kind of gets credited with developing a "grey" philosophy in-universe? But people always bring her up as if she's this great point of sensible consideration and not actually, as it turns out, a master manipulator trying to purge the Force from the galaxy (or something like that at least? It's been a while since my last playthrough lol) that lies to you all the time to get you to do what she wants (because she was so crazy bananas both the Jedi and the Sith said "no thank u :)" - well, with a bit more nuance but you get the gist). Really, it's a bit like people falling for Palpatine's anti-Jedi points all over how they talk about her philosophic arguments without bringing that up. But yeah, I thought you might be interested in that. Also, I think KotOR might be what people meant with being able to unlock Dark Side powers as a Light sider but you are absolutely correct that it's a mechanics vs story issue (especially since some powers are indeed alignment-locked AND making dark side choices does impact the character (apart from story, ending and relationships to your party members). It's a bit of a simplistic gimmick, of course, but the further you get into the Dark Side on the alignment, the more it's visible - sickly skin colour, cracks in the skin and flesh, your eyes change...stuff like that. I don't think using Dark Side powers actually pushes you further down the alignment, but the intent is obviously not for Light Siders to mix and match however they like).

Anyway, I'm so sorry for rambling on for so long, but I thought you (or someone, at least :D ) might appreciate that additional info. Keep up the good podcasting! :)

OUR FIRST ASK! I'm so glad you're enjoying the podcast, thank-you so much for listening to us ramble on for an hour once a month!

This is all really interesting! I've read a few metas about the Star Wars video games and the characters within them which is partly why I chose to briefly include them in the episode (and also because I am familiar with Jedi: Survivor which has its own "dark side" mechanic for the main character that was relevant to the discussion). Aside from Jedi: Survivor, I wasn't necessarily referencing any one specific video game, I assume it's probably a thing that's come up more than once.

As far as my reaction to Kreia goes, just based on your description of her, the idea of there being "too much light" just isn't how Lucas's own worldbuilding worked. It's clearly trying to hit on the idea of "balance" being equal amounts of light and dark usage, as opposed to balance being acknowledging darkness EXISTS (in yourself and in the universe) in order to keep yourself from acting on it. There just isn't a way to be "too light" or something like that, there's never "too much" kindness and compassion and selflessness in the world. In this sense, the video games are just going to fall into the same category as the rest of legends and EU stuff, in that they often just do their own thing based on their own interpretations of Star Wars, but it doesn't mean it actually fits with what Lucas himself was trying to get across about the philosophy of the Force and the Jedi in his own stories, and that's primarily what we're using as a base to discuss Star Wars from.

If any of us ends up playing KOTOR, we can certainly try to bring it up more often. I don't think we have any plans of doing more video game stuff currently, but if the KOTOR remake ever comes to pass, maybe I will!

-Mod Sugar

[questforgalas]

You call that a plan??

Summary: Rex and Anakin meet for the first time

Notes: This is so self indulgent. I HC that Rex and Anakin both thought they had to be super serious with each other and were nervous about their first meeting, but soon realized they're both the same brand of crazy so anyway, here's my self indulgent tale of that

Word count: 2.4k

Warnings: None

Tay's Masterlist

On AO3

10 years had led to this moment. 10 years of simulations. Of strategy training. Of honing his playbook to near perfection. 10 years of hearing, “You’re soldiers. You will protect the people of the republic.” 10 years of hearing about the jedi, the best warriors in the galaxy - according to everyone except the Mandalorians. Force wielders who’ve never heard a call they can’t answer. 10 years of listening to legends as a young cadet who called stark white walls, rain slicked platforms, and a dark grey battle simulator home.

Rex felt this odd twisting in his gut as he waited on the landing platform of the GAR base on Coruscant. The time had finally come to meet his general, and he was surprised to find himself nervous. He’d never met a jedi, and his knowledge came from the few stories the trainers on Kamino told them. These beings that could manipulate the energy around them to do everything from lift small objects to influence the mind. Not to mention their skill with an ancient weapon powered by kyber. One trainer in particular, Kal Skirata, was fond of filling their time with vivid tales of jedi warriors he’d encountered through the galaxy. They were blurs of light. Still as statues. As Ferocious as a Gundark. Gentle as a loth cat. Never expect a direct answer from them since they only spoke in riddles and philosophy, but they could cut you down with their words as swiftly as they could with their lightsabers. In Rex’s mind, they were magnificent.

That strange twisting feeling in his gut kept gnawing at him. He didn’t want to acknowledge it – he was captain of the 501st legion for Maker’s sake. Not once in all his years of training could he remember feeling this way, but ten minutes on this platform waiting to meet his general had his stomach in knots. He wasn’t suddenly questioning his skill or if he was up for the job. Not at all. Cocky wasn’t an adjective used to describe Rex, but confident certainly was, and he was confident in his ability as a captain, a tactician, and a brother. It was humbling, but he knew he was up for the task. No, that nagging knot was coming from another of Rex’s traits.

One of the reasons why Rex’s playbook was undefeated was because he thought outside of the box. The Kaminoans caught it early on, around when he was 5 and first started strategy simulations. They’d give him orders, and he’d follow them, but as he did, he’d identify weaknesses and holes that could cost unnecessary lives. At first, he brought this up to the trainers. Surely, they’d want to know where a plan could be fortified. To his surprise though, Rex was told to run the order again, no changes. So, instead of going through the strategy like last time, he’d quietly add his tweaks as the simulation ran. Soon, Rex’s outcome numbers were surpassing his brother’s three years ahead of him. The Kaminoans couldn’t ignore that.

Then came the battle simulators. Orders would come through, and Rex would have the weakest points identified within 7 seconds of the alarm sounding. So, he’d make his adjustments. Would it be the strategy the Mandalorians told them to run? Not exactly, but it got the job done in record time. When questioned why he made the changes, Rex simply answered, “The plan was flawed. I found an alternative that saved time and lives.”

As he grew older, Rex developed a reputation as the free-thinking clone who could change a strategy flawlessly in a second. So, it wasn’t a surprise to anyone when he was tapped for ARC training and then again for command training. Rex wasn’t a fool – he knew the only reason he wasn’t disciplined or even decommissioned was because his plans worked so well, but that didn’t stop him from giving the Mandalorian and Kaminoan strategists subtle headaches now and again.

None of that seemed like a problem to Rex until now. Of course, it would take facing a jedi for him to question his very nature. He wouldn’t call himself rebellious per se, and certainly not a slacker. He just refused to be constrained by protocol if it meant better results for his men. But for 10 years he heard about the strict jedi who adhered to their code like it was imprinted on their souls. If anyone was going to expect him to follow protocol, it’d be his code living general. The more Rex thought about it, the more that knot in his stomach twisted as he counted down the minutes.

“I can do this. I can support my general’s strategies without modifications. Nothing to it,” Rex repeated to himself like a mantra. It was exactly 0859 – his general should be here any minute. Something in the corner of Rex’s eye caught his attention, and he turned his head to see Commander Cody walking towards him from the base.

“Cody, what brings you here?” Rex greeted as he clasped his brother’s forearm. Cody copied the gesture.

“Thought I’d try to catch you before your meeting. Finished up with mine a few minutes ago,” Cody answered.

“How’d it go? The jedi live up to everything we’ve heard?” Rex eagerly asked.

Cody didn’t answer right away. Instead, he stared out at the Coruscant skyline as if pondering Rex’s question.

“Yeah. They’re uh, they’re something that’s for sure,” Cody responded in time. “You and I will probably see a lot of each other. My general, General Kenobi, is your general’s old master. Word on the street is the two of them are inseparable. Apparently, your general, General Skywalker, just went through their graduation ceremony the other day, so he’s young. About 19 I think. General Kenobi talked about him with a smirk but also a fondness in his eyes, so I don’t know what to make of that.”

Rex groaned, “I’m not a babysitter Cody. I’m leading a battalion. I can’t keep our brothers alive if I’m also watching over a kid.”

“Rex, you’re 10,” Cody quipped back not holding back his smirk.

 Rex rolled his eyes. He had a retort on the tip of his tongue but it was stopped by the distant groan of a ship approaching the platform. They both watched a ship touch down just under the cover of the hangar ceiling. Rex wasn’t sure what to expect regarding jedi transportation, but it certainly wasn’t a Corellian G9 light-freighter that looked like it was one bumpy landing from completely disintegrating.

Before the gangway lowered, Rex shot a look to Cody who took the hint and made his way back to the GAR base, shoulders shaking with laughter knowing Rex’s need for good impressions. One last glare thrown at Cody’s back, Rex quickly put his bucket on and swiftly stood to attention as a figure made its way down the ramp. He was taller than Rex expected, even at this distance. The person, General Skywalker apparently, strolled over to where Rex had been waiting with no sense of hurry in his gait. Rex didn’t need the force to feel the smug energy radiating off of this one.

“Oh great,” Rex groaned inwardly. “A kid and an ego.” Kid or not, Rex still felt the knot of nerves in his gut twist as the jedi got closer. When they were within 4 steps of him, Rex shot into a salute.

“Sir! It is a pleaure to meet you, sir. I’m CT-7567, captain of the 501st, and it is an honor to be serving under you,” Rex rattled off when the jedi came to a stop in front of him. This close it was easy to take in the details of the person he was about to go into battle with. Short, shaggy soft-brown hair topped a long, soft face. Blue eyes took in the clone, and a smirk seemed to live on the general’s lips like he was in on a secret no one else knew. Rex hoped for Skywalker’s sake that the short stub of hair tied in the back was a jedi requirement and not a personal choice. Hidden behind his helmet, he took in the rest of the general as he eyed him up and down, and that’s when he caught it. Slightly concealed by the long, dark sleeve of a tunic was a cybernetic hand.

Groan number three made its way through Rex as he realized he was looking at the jedi padawan who lost his hand to Count Dooku. Rex heard the reports. Impulsive. Reckless. Those are the conclusions Rex came to about the jedi in front of him before today. Taking in the permanent smirk on Skywalker’s lips, Rex felt fairly confident with his conclusions.

“What do I do to get you to stop doing that?” Skywalker’s odd question jerked Rex out of his thoughts.

“To stop doing what, sir?” Rex slowly answered.

“Stop standing like a statue. Not even Obi-Wan is that stiff when he’s meditating,” the jedi answered. Again, at a loss for words, Rex didn’t know exactly how to respond. Was he simply looking for Rex to go at ease? Did he know nothing about standard procedure? Was Rex expected to go to into battle and keep his brothers alive with someone who didn’t even know protocol? Maker, save him.

“Uh, you can tell me to go at ease, sir. Then I can address you more casually,” Rex suggested.

“Ah ok. Then, at ease CT-7567. Any chance that also means you can remove your helmet? Figured I should know what my second in command looks like.”

Rex couldn’t tell if that was an attempt at a joke. He was a clone. They all looked alike. The general just simply had to walk into the base behind him, and he’d see what he needed to. Granted, Rex’s blonde mutation made him stand out a little easier, but the face was all the same. Rex stayed silent as he took in the general. That smirk had softened a bit, and his eyes held a genuine curiosity that had Rex reaching for his helmet.

“Not much to look at, sir. A base full of me just behind us,” Rex attempted to joke back. He must have delivered it wrong though, because Skywalker’s eyebrows suddenly furrowed and he looked insulted at Rex’s statement.

“Not to me, captain. You’re not just clones. Neither of you are the same in the force, and each one of you is a man I’m responsible for. I don’t take that lightly,” Skywalker said sincerely. “CT-7567 is a bit of a mouthful. Any chance the Kaminoans were fans of names?”

A light laugh passed Rex’s lips, “Not the Kaminoans, sir, no. But my brothers and I took it upon ourselves to gives us some identity. The name’s Rex.”

“Rex. I’m Anakin Skywalker. I guess I’m your general,” Anakin stretched out his cybernetic hand in front of him. Rex grabbed it with a strong grip before giving a brief shake and letting go. “I’ll be honest Rex, I’m a little out of my depth here. General of an army isn’t exactly part of jedi training, but I already have a few tricks up my sleeves I think you’ll be impressed with.”

“Eager to hear them, general. We’re to report in the hangar at 1400 to make our way to Christophsis,’ Rex supplied.

“Plenty of time for us to go over my plan. Here’s what I was thinking.” For the next five minutes, Anakin didn’t take a breath as he rattled off the mess that he was calling a plan. Rex was in disbelief. When Anakin had started, he’d let out a soft chuckle because he thought the jedi was joking, but Rex realized Skywalker wasn’t stopping. This was genuinely Anakin’s idea of a plan. He could appreciate out of the box, but this. Rex didn’t have words to describe what he just listened to. The words “impulsive” and ”reckless” made their way back to the front of his mind as the minutes passed. It was easy to tell Anakin was eager and dedicated to his men, but it was also clear he didn’t possess a tactical bone in his body.

“My general’s worse than a shiny,” Rex thought.

Granted, Anakin may be rough around the edges, but he had the raw potential to become a great leader. He just needed some polishing here and there. Lost in his thoughts, Rex hadn’t realized that Anakin stopped talking and was now looking at him with eyes similar to those of an eager Loth pup awaiting praise. Rex kept his face neutral as he responded.

“Well sir, I understand better how you lost your hand if that’s what you call a plan.”

Of all the moments to not have a camera. Anakin’s mouth fell and his eyes went wide. Rex did his best to keep his face straight, but the longer he looked at Anakin, the harder it was to keep his laughter in. Eventually, the laughter won. Anakin blinked once, then twice, and then joined his captain. Maker, Rex couldn’t remember the last time he laughed this hard, and he felt the formal tension between him and the general fade into the Coruscant air.

“If I may speak freely sir, that plan leaves a lot to be desired. I see the overall picture you’re trying to put together. If you’d like, I could make some adjustments to fortify the weak points and add in some surprises the clankers may like,” Rex offered.

“Sounds like a deal, Rex. Could you do me one favor though? If Obi-Wan asks, tell him you thought it was a good plan. He’d never let me hear the end of it if my captain ripped apart my first ever battle strategy,” Anakin asked with a sheepish smile taking over his usual smug smirk.

“Not a problem, sir. Wouldn’t want the 212th getting cocky now. I’m happy to go over some strategy basics with you once we’re onboard, too. This stuff I’ve been learning since I came out of the tube. Could say it comes naturally.”

That softness from earlier returned to Anakin’s eyes as he rested a hand on Rex’s shoulder, smug smirk back in place. “Well, let’s go then. We have a war to win.”

[queeruscant]

Name: Cohmac Vitus Pronouns: he/him Era: High Republic Appears in: Into the Dark, Out of the Shadows, Midnight Horizon

Jedi Master Cohmac Vitus was a well-respected scholar and mystic during the High Republic era. He was the master of Padawan Reath Silas, and was good friends with the Wayseeker Jedi Orla Jareni. Cohmac had a very strong connection to the Force, and he was more affected by disturbances than other Jedi were. While Cohmac was rational and steady, he had unresolved issues with how the Jedi Order dealt with grief and emotions, which intensified during the Nihil conflict.

Check out Cohmac's video profile here!

Full profile under the cut:

Cohmac Vitus was a Jedi Master in the High Republic Era. In the Jedi Order, he was a well-respected scholar and mystic, particularly in the fields of folklore and ancient cultures. He was highly sensitive to the Force – moreso than most Jedi – and generally preferred reason and logic to acting on emotion. Cohmac was considered by many to be very handsome: he had light brown skin, greying black hair almost to his shoulders, and an angular build. In phase one of the High Republic, he’s probably in his 40’s or early 50’s. Nevertheless, Cohmac was “more resolute in his vows” than many other Jedi, although there were rumours he had once been in love. In any case, Vernestra Rwoh still caught Cohmac admiring Xylan Graf’s chest when he thought no one was watching.

While Cohmac considered himself to bring steadiness and rationality to the Jedi Order, that in itself came from a place of repressed emotions. Cohmac’s master, Simmix, died on a mission while Cohmac was still a Padawan. Not only did Cohmac feel responsible for his Master’s death, he was angry at the Jedi Order for not allowing him to grieve. He bottled up that anger within himself, but after the Great Disaster and the rise of the Nihil, it came to the surface. Cohmac began to question the Jedi philosophy and their approach to fighting the Nihil. Why were they expected to hide their feelings? Why did they ignore the Dark side of the Force instead of examining it?

While Cohmac often appeared to be unshakable, the Nihil conflict spurred his inner turmoil. He went from thinking like a scholar to believing that the Jedi could not flinch while facing the Nihil – and he started to fight like it.

Cohmac was the master of Padawan Reath Silas, another Jedi who preferred scholarly pursuits before his path led him elsewhere. Cohmac said that Reath would be his greatest instructor in the force, and they both pushed themselves to the edge of their comfort zones. He was also good friends with the Wayseeker Jedi Orla Jareni, who he had grown up with as younglings and who was with him on the mission that Master Simmix died. Orla was Cohmac’s opposite in temperament, but also one of the people he trusted the most. 

🚨 Spoilers for The Fallen Star and Midnight Horizon: 🚨

While Cohmac hoped teaching Reath would help him find balance within the Order, Cohmac couldn’t get past his grief, anxiety, anger, and doubt. Orla’s death during the fall of Starlight Beacon was the last straw. That night, he officially named Reath a Jedi Knight and gave him his lightsaber. Cohmac said that he was no longer a Jedi, and disappeared into the night. 

[revanknightwoman]

Darth Revan & Bastila (accepting both sides of the Force)

I love this story

Fanfiction net. Dark Destyny

Revan was silent for a minute, then said, "You have been misled by your so-called teachers. Light Side, Dark Side, you see them only as good and evil. In truth, they are so much more."

"Oh? Then what are they?" Bastila asked incredulously.

Revan began to explain his philosophy. "The Light Side is the, shall we say, wider area of the Force. It consists of the, for lack of a better word, 'higher' emotions. Selflessness, self-sacrifice, compassion. All of them are very positive things. But the Light Side ignores the more human emotions. If you limit oneself to the Light Side, you lose touch with your natural emotions."

Bastia had to interrupt. "Even if I believe you, which I don't, isn't that a good thing? Human emotions, selfish emotions; they only bring down a Jedi in the end. That's why we keep them under control, so our judgement is not clouded."

Revan shook his head. "You misunderstand. Many more basic emotions are not selfish. Personal love and happiness are not, but they form part of the Dark Side. You have been raised, Bastila, to see the Light and Dark Sides to firmly represent good and evil, but you are wrong. Yes, anger and rage are part of the Dark Side, but so are love and passion. No, the Dark Side is not evil, it only comes from natural, human emotions."

Bastila considered his words. It was an interesting philosophy, but she knew Revan was either lying, or deluded.

"I am not deluded, Bastila. In fact, I will be your first Master who is not. The Jedi have it all wrong, Bastila. The danger is not using the Dark Side. No, the danger is becoming too limited on one side of the Force. Only focusing on the Dark Side can lead to your anger and greed consuming you. That is what happened to Malak."

For the first time, there was a hint of regret in Revan's voice. Did he feel remorseful for what had become of his friend? Maybe he...no, Sith felt no remorse. Whatever Revan said, they were evil, and Bastila knew that.

"On the other hand, becoming blind to all but the Light Side is also very dangerous. Over time, you lose touch with your humanity. In the end, you become nothing more than an emotionless puppet. Eventually, you stop truly caring about those you protect. You start to help others only out of a sense of duty, and deep down, you don't actually care anymore."

[antianakin]

I'm starting to see some very funny (and by funny I mean infuriating) takes on what Andor was actually ABOUT and the way it utilized its more adult narrative within the context of Star Wars. Andor as a show followed Lucas's themes BRILLIANTLY even while choosing to look at them a little differently.

One of the primary themes in Star Wars is that there really isn't much of a "middle ground" in life. You are either choosing to be selfless and compassionate, or you aren't. Trying to stay in the middle or run from making this choice inevitably ends up badly for the people who try. And one of the other primary themes of Star Wars is that being selfless and compassionate often requires LETTING GO, most often letting go of the people you love and accepting that change happens in life.

I've seen people argue that Andor is able to be a morally grey story because its characters aren't Jedi or Sith who tend to be more bound by these cosmic themes or good vs evil, but I'd argue that Andor actually represents that theme JUST FINE.

Despite many of its characters living in a "morally ambiguous" area, we still have to see them make the choice to be selfless and compassionate or selfish and greedy. One of the primary themes for the characters is how well they can LET GO or not. Cassian is constantly having to figure out how to let go of his plans for his future, let go of his mother, let go of his dreams of a normal life. Cassian is ruled by fear for much of the first season and it's only once he is pushed into a situation where there's no longer any way to run, he starts finally fighting back and refusing to bow to the oppressive force that wants nothing more than to see him discarded like so much refuse. The people of Ferrix have to let go of their desire to stick their heads in the sand and simply hope the Empire won't notice them.

And on the other end of the spectrum you have Syril Karn and Dedra Meero absolutely fixated on their respective goals to the point that they're willing to kill and betray innocent people to reach them. They've convinced themselves their goals are selfless, but their motivations are in fact actually SELFISH, they serve nobody but their own ambitions. And both of them end up paying for it.

So Andor ABSOLUTELY gets the central theme of Star Wars, it isn't actually trying to change that. What it DOES do is take that theme and just digs slightly deeper, looking at this theme from a slightly different angel even when it ultimately comes to the same conclusion. Andor asks if selflessness and compassion always looks like "I'm Luke Skywalker, I'm here to rescue you!" Or if maybe sometimes making the selfless choice means burning yourself to light a fire to lead someone else to safety. Are all people who make the selfless and compassionate choice considered heroes, or are some of them having to make those choices down in the dirt and destined to be forgotten by history? Andor asks how many variations of selflessness might exist and then explores them in its wide, colorful ensemble.

Andor also is looking at what selflessness might look like in characters who are forced into making a choice between standing back when they see evil happening and dirtying their hands just to make the smallest difference because forces of evil outside of their control are making the purer options impossible.

And that is the EXACT SAME THEME explored with the Prequels Jedi. The Jedi who want so badly to be selfless and compassionate, whose philosophies and ideologies lead them to use violence only as a last resort and love everyone and everything in the galaxy equally. The Jedi who are thrust into a war where there's no way to win because the Sith are running both sides of it and the Jedi can't just NOT FIGHT because that will get innocent people killed and will help no one but themselves, but they have to compromise their morals as a result. The Jedi who see a politician slowly amassing unreasonable amounts of power he's unwilling to let go of and a Senate too controlled by fear and greed to see the danger, so their only option is to commit treason to try to remove the corruption personally.

The Jedi LOOK the hero part a lot more than the characters in Andor do. They're strong, confident, powerful, and wield swords of light. They fight out in the open rather than from the shadows. Cassian, Luthen, Saw, Mon Mothma, Vel, and Cinta all manipulate things and threaten people and lie and cheat their way towards victory. Both Mon Mothma and Luthen fully admit to choosing to act like their enemy in order to defeat them. And it's not that the Jedi's way of fighting is any worse than the way the people of Andor have learned to fight. The people of Andor would LOVE to be able to fight like the Jedi used to do. But they can't. Palpatine has created a world in which being heroes that way is NO LONGER POSSIBLE. He started with the Jedi, by forcing the Jedi into a situation where fighting the way they once did was the wrong choice to make. There were no longer any right choices, just better choices. The only choice.

The Jedi stood as a bulwark between the darkness and the people of the galaxy. For years they chose to dirty their hands in order to fight the battles no one else WANTED to fight because it was the ONLY CHOICE TO MAKE. So what happens when the Jedi are gone?

The rest of the galaxy is now faced with the same choice. Do you stand by and let darkness grow? Or do you dirty your hands a little because it's the only choice you CAN make?

The people in Andor are picking up the torch that fell out of the Jedi's hands when they were murdered and persecuted by the Sith. Only the people who are left don't have magic powers or swords of light, so they use the resources they have at their disposal, which mostly amounts to manipulation and trickery and striking from shadows. The fight looks a little different now, but it's still the same fight the Jedi were fighting for years.

So Andor is taking those bigger cosmic themes from the Jedi/Sith conflicts that permeate the rest of the Skywalker saga and asks what those themes might look like when applied to the little people. What kind of choices might THEY make, what kind of things might they have to let go of in order to make those selfless choices? What kind of consequences might happen when they DON'T make the selfless choice? It's the exact same theme Lucas has ALWAYS had in his stories, just viewed from a different angle or through a different lens.

But the stories we've been getting recently that are trying to argue that being selfish is actually totally fine so long as you're doing it For Love, that the Jedi were in fact the source of everything that went wrong in the galaxy, that the Jedi were DESTINED to be destroyed, those all go completely against Lucas's themes. They're the direct OPPOSITE of his intended message. It is in fact entirely possible to write a more adult story with grittier content that STILL SENDS THE SAME FUCKING MESSAGE AND FOLLOWS THE SAME THEMES and doesn't try to get edgy in its interpretation of the source material.

[mischievouschan4]

Ok I just want to send a hug and an apology for ever leaving you and Transference, it's amazing!!! I just read it, some of it again, and I am wordless with admiration, feeling like I have a thousand questions but am unable to articulate them. Alone the grey Jedi teachings... Please can we talk about that, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Omg dude, DOOOD!!! Srsly no need to apologize ever! Hahaha I am so easy, like, I'm just happy you're enjoying the fic! 😭🥰💕💕💕 (But your compliments are super nice!!!!!!!)

As for Grey Jedi lore (a hot topic for some people, I know), I have LOTS of thoughts! I've watched so many video essays about this on YouTube and have become heavily influenced by this one lol. It has a few main points I really want to incorporate into Transference:

The video talks about how the Jedi live this ascetic lifestyle where they deny themselves everything (pleasure, strong emotions, love, etc), which is the exact opposite of Sith's "life in the fast lane" mentality - the video has a great quote "the Sith are willing to exchange suffering for life affirming experiences...[to get the full spectrum of life]". This includes embracing all of those ugly emotions that the Jedi swear off. Realistically, I strongly believe moderation is the way to go. If I think about my own life, I'd get bored in one situation and burnt out in the other, so Grey Jedi philosophy represents that middle ground when it comes to using the Force in a healthy, sustainable, "happy" way. From a character perspective, I think the story of Star Wars told in the Prequels (and maybe the Clone Wars show?) just really showcases how hard it was to actually follow the Jedi Code? Our main characters were so miserable because they had to keep fighting against their natural inclinations to care/love/think. Obviously, there are characters who uphold the stereotypical Jedi lifestyle impeccably (Yoda, Mace, the rest of the Council, etc.), but not every Force user feels that way (Dooku, Qui-Gon, Anakin, and especially Obi-Wan - all of his characterizations in the books are of him struggling with his feelings)! Why should they continue to deny themselves? It's like being subjugated to a school of thought that was only imposed on them just because they were born a certain way (if they weren't Force users, they would be free to love and marry and have kids without judgement).

Obviously, I do think full Sith mentality isn't healthy either, if you're constantly seeking more power, more strength, more more more, it's like an addiction that spirals. The Sith see power as the path to freedom so they can bulldoze through anything and anyone that challenges them, but in that pursuit they actually lose their rational thought sometimes to the pull of greed. On the other hand, Jedi see freedom as freedom of the mind. If you can completely separate your decisions from your desires, you've conquered the possibility of making "bad" or "wrong" choices. But emmm... yeah, who does this? I think this is a great example that shows that neither side in isolation is sustainable.

Additionally, the Sith believe that constant conflict/strife make you stronger, so they are constantly testing and pushing their limits to the extremes to ensure they are as powerful as possible (a lot of it coming from strong emotions like hate and anger, which are TOTALLY HEALTHY to express). I think it ties really nicely with this famous video about the quote that goes, “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times” (G. Michael Hopf). I feel like the Jedi Order was kind of just going through this degenerative process during the Prequels Era - the long peace had allowed them to become kind of complacent in their use of their Force. Basically, they had established a "safe zone" of Force use with this HUGE buffer away from anything Dark Side related that kept anyone from Falling accidentally, but also restricted people from reaching their full potential. So in Transference, Obi-Wan needs to break through the "norms" established by the Jedi in order, he needs to push himself to the point of struggle, in order to prepare to train Anakin (who is just Boss level skilled). But I don't think the struggle is purely physical for Obi-Wan (as I portray it for Maul), it's more mental and spiritual for him? Specifically, how deeply he explores the Dark Side and how uncomfortable that makes him based on everything he's been taught.

This video also delves into Nietzsche's Master Slave morality (with religious themes), which is SUPER interesting. Idk if it'll make it into Transference because it's a bit sophisticated for my brain to comprehend, but essentially, the Sith align with Master morality and the Jedi align with Slave morality. Master morality being that it is the duty of the strong to rule over the weak because they need that "guidance". We can see this embodied in the structure of the Empire. On the other hand, Slave morality values things like kindness, self-sacrifice, obedience, etc., which Nietzsche argues is just what those who are not strong enough to rule have tricked themselves into thinking are good traits. AKA that the Jedi are so focused on dogma only because if people deviate or question the Code, then it'll become clear that they don't actually have control over anything. The Jedi Order according to Nietzsche would be full of conformity and suppressing talent for the sake of maintaining equilibrium within the pack (that buffer previously mentioned). Transference is about Obi-Wan showing the Council that it IS possible to step outside that established boundary and not Fall because Jedi with strong convictions are able to stick to their principles even with temptation all around them. I don't think I'm explaining it very well, but the video is great!

ANYWAYS, just my two cents on this topic in another essay for you, Wibz 😅 Hope it wasn't too much! My take is that if you incorporate ideas from both sides, life is balanced and you're not miserable. Obi-Wan will finally allow himself to be pissed about everything that happened before 😌 I'd love to shout at you anytime about Grey Jedi!!!!

[swtorramblings]

I don’t necessarily mind the idea of Grey Jedi, I just don’t think they fit into Lucas’ vision for what the Force is like. To him, the Dark Side is a corruption of the Force, that’s why the people who practice it are or eventually become monsters. Unless that’s changed, the Dark Side is not a legitimate source of power that can be “balanced” with the Light.

I mean, I’m not sure he ever intended there to be a Light. There was the Force, and the Dark Side of the Force, a twisting of what the energy was meant to be. And the Sith are clearly monsters. The Jedi, whatever their flaws, are just as clearly not intended to be, even if I dispute some of their behavior.

But, let’s face it, while Lucas did give us this universe, and at significant risk, he’s not perfect. He also gave us such gems as “your bra would strangle you” and the Trade Federation. And a Dark Side that not only is a profound misunderstanding of the philosophies he claims to have drawn from, but increasingly seem like they might be a stand-in for some kind of “mental illness means you’re evil” deal.

I think you can do both: Keep Lucas’ idea that the Dark Side is corrupt, but say that’s not its only form. Maybe it’s been damaged in some way, possibly by the activity of the Sith. So, where once it might have been something legitimate you might be able to pursue, now it’s a monster making factory. Then, the Grey Jedi would be using it in its “pure” state, so that they can use it without becoming monsters.

I think that’s what the one scene in TLJ was getting at, that Rey was seeing a Dark Side that maybe could be approached or something. Whatever the intent, it was never touched on again, so we’ll never know, but it had serious “the Dark Side is important too and not JUST evil” vibes for a brief moment.

I dunno. The galaxy far, far away has a lot of problems as Lucas envisioned it. Maybe this is one that could actually be solved.

[ospreyeamon]

sith colour symbolism

Black is the colour of the Force. More specifically the Dark-Side of the Force, but Sith philosophies and most Korribani Force practices predating the arrival of the twelve Jedi Exiles consider the Dark-Side to be a) the default, and b) consisting of a broader spectrum of the Force than the Jedi do. Kissai paradigms understand ‘darkness’ as a product of saturation rather than as one end of a binary light-dark spectrum. So as a piece of cloth can be coloured with dye, dirt, or blood, the Force is imbued with emotion, memory, and life presence. Black fabrics are traditionally achieved using intense blues, greys, etc. rather than with a true black dye.

True black, the absence of light, is associated with the void of space rather than the Force. It’s difficult to create in artwork – especially using fabric which needs to be washed – so it is often implied using contrast.

Wearing full black is restricted by Imperial law to Sith who have passed their Trials or are in the process of undertaking them.

Imperial Red single colour outfits may only be worn by those in direct service to the Emperor; the Hand, the Wrath, the Imperial Guard. It is the particular shade used in the Emperor’s personal crest that also serves as the symbol of his Empire.

White is the colour of death without remembrance. It implies bleaching rather than natural emptiness; dead bone, colours faded, the Force cleansed of feeling and memory.

After the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi are depicted in full white, even though the Jedi’s go-to robe palette of brown and beige was already well established. This symbolises their role as the destroyers of libraries and tombs and languages, as well as having the pleasing effect of creating a dramatic visual contrast with the Sith. In depictions of the joint taskforce to Yavin IV made after the destruction of Ziost Grandmaster Satele and the other Jedi are shown in browns and tans; it is the former Emperor, Vitiate, who is cloaked in white.

Death with remembrance is symbolised by the shades of blue described by those who can see Force Ghosts; pale and electric. Blue and white together is traditional funerary dress – while their legacy is preserved some things are inevitably lost with their death – unless the spirit of the deceased is in attendance, in which case the white is unnecessary. Showing up to a funeral wearing all white or close to it communicates something to the effect of either "I lost this person without having the chance to know them and have feelings about that; please tell me your stories about them" or "I killed them and now I will kill all of you too".

Green, unsurprisingly, symbolises plants. From plants, it is linked with biosciences and, because medical research and public health fall under the purview of the Sphere of Biotic Science, medicine and pharmaceuticals.

In Kissai traditions predating the founding of the Sith Order green is associated with what the Jedi consider to be the Light-Side of the Force, or a form of it – the Force reflecting the life and growth and death of plants, algae, fungi, and non-sentient animals free from the intelligible thoughts and feelings of sentient beings.