#i know you brought up red goblin but i cant touch that arc with a ten foot pole it makes me irrationality angry

[lizallanosborn]

I don't how a writer would even pull off a redemption arc for Norman when he canonically sold his son's soul to Mesphiesto (aka the devil and the literal ebodoment of evil) to get his business booming at the price of his son's life becoming unlucky and for also teaming up with the carnage symbote to create chaos and caused Flash to die during that whole red goblin arc. Just. Like. How??

Well. Short answer: No, you can't. Lol

Longer answer: It's literally impossible to redeem Norman of all people, the fact that the method for his 'redemption' was getting shot by a magic gun that removed his sins (which has yet to be properly explained. Like what does that mean/entail in this context. Like so far he's been shown to have surface level guilt and feels hallow/empty like. Okay me too cry about it) says everything it needs to.

Norman has done far too much heinous shit to even entertain him getting a redemption arc, especially because writers themselves have RECENTLY brought up baby Mayday and the fact that he killed her. I don't like that plot point, it makes me extremely uncomfortable and I think it was very unnecessary but they've brought it up themselves in this arc so like... What.

I think in this case especially, that, obviously comics play in a very different ball park morality wise compared to real life, after all people don't have superpowers and in fiction it's fine to explore someone like a murderer changing for the better but given his. Everything and how Norman is, it's like. Why would you want to give him a redemption arc. I'm not going to list every awful thing he's ever done, it would turn into a novella but Norman is canonically 1) an abusive father 2) baby murderer as they've recently reminded us 3) has committed every form of murder possible and very much unapologetic about all of it and that's a very short list for my own sanity. Then you can include anything from 'every fucked up thing that he's done to Flash alone' 'selling his son's soul to the devil', I don't like that plot point either but unfortunately it is canon so it DOES count.

I literally cannot fathom why they're doing this because I've not seen one person who likes it. Especially because this arc has come at the cost of other characters. Peter of all people would never comfort Norman, especially about Harry of all things when Peter has told Norman that he cannot have Harry multiple times and told him to stay away from him, killed Peter's girlfriend, killed Peter's daughter, killed Flash, buried May alive, killed Peter's brother etc the list goes on forever. It's just... Not in character for Peter to even believe that Norman would be magically better and a changed man, Peter's paranoid on a good day let alone about Norman of all people. Like it's insane to me we don't need this

Also from a story telling perspective, it's not interesting! It's unnecessary and boring! Like okay Norman feels guilt and wants to atone but he doesn't seem to understand why his actions are bad and it all feels very surface level. Especially because they want to redeem him but have barely mentioned Harry, his own son who he abused and who is, for better or worse, a massive part of Norman's own character and vice versa AND who IF, you were going to have Norman become a better person, a lot of that would begin in realising what he did to his son, but that in general is very ooc for him just off the bat. Like he doesn't deserve one and it offers nothing of interest. And like! If he really meant that he wanted to change maybe he'd fuck off forever from the people he's irreplaceably hurt and wallow in his guilt on his fucking own lol. You can't have a character say they want to atone for their actions but do nothing of any real substance and arguably keep traumatising others just with their presence. Norman saying he's sorry and that he feels bad means nothing compared to literally everything he's ever done.

And again! Not interesting, I think when he's used right and written a certain way (the 60s and 70s goblin stories are my absolute favourites for example) Norman can work very well as the villain of the story but making him a better person spits in the face of any character who's even shared a room with him, ooc for a million reasons, has resulted in some of the worst Peter characterization in literal decades, is unnecessary and fucking horrible lol! Like it drives me insane that we're doing this but not even addressing EVERYTHING with Harry and that it's costing other characters of their actual selves.