#i need to make it clear that jaehaerys DOES basically want to marry his daughters in terms of keeping them in his personal control forever

[visenyaism]

ASOIAF terrible fathers bracket FINAL FOUR: Jaehaerys Targaryen vs. Craster

Jaehaerys: I fully recognize this is probably my last chance to deliver unto y’all my anti-jaehaerys sermon, so I am gonna leave it all on the fucking field for you people today. Between passing over daenerys for his son against his wife’s wishes, making his wife carry 13 of his children against her wishes, forcing his terrified likely cognitively disabled 13 year old daughter to get married against her will (resulting in her violent death), exiling his 16 year old daughter to another continent for having premarital sex after holding her down and making her watch as he chopped her boyfriend in half with a sword and then saying it’s fine she had to resort to sex work because she was always a whore anyways, forcing his other 16 year old daughter to get married to an old man thousands of miles away from her home (resulting in her death), locking his final teenage daughter away from public view during her pregnancy and miscarriage (resulting in her suicide), making his 12 year old granddaughter marry his sixteen year old grandson and start trying for kids (resulting in her death) and passing over Rhaenys for Viserys (resulting in the dance of the dragons, which caused the downfall of house targaryen), Jaehaerys was a MENACE to each and every woman in his life, way too personally invested in his teen daughters’ sex lives in a way that does carry sinister implications, and ultimately laid the seeds for the cataclysm that would swallow his whole family forever. Looked at his daughters and all he could see was a wife (whether for himself, his sons, or another old man he needed to gain power from) and a future incubator he would exchange the life of for a grandson. see you in hell

craster: marries his daughters and sacrifices his sons to the white walkers

[gameofthronesrenlyxlorasforever]

Jon's Targaryen name

Potential *****SPOILERS *****

There's a rumor floating around that Jon has a Targaryen name and that's what Lyanna whispered to Ned. I never particularly liked that notion. Lyanna wouldn't chose a Targaryen name. As for Rhaegar, I'm convinced by the theory that, by the time Lyanna was pregnant, he thought the third child would be a girl. He already had an Aegon and a Rhaenys. He needed a Visenya to complete the set. So he wouldn't have thought of a male name.

The worst rumor regarding this mess is that Lyanna whispered the name Aegon. If that happens, then d&d are truly despicable. Or if it's somehow GRRM's idea, (I seriously can't imagine it would be) then he's either not the amazing storyteller we know him to be, or he's writing Rhaegar as mad like his father. Why would someone give the name of his son to his new child? Why would Lyanna agree? If she didn't find the idea revolting, she was either a horrible person or dumb. From what we know about them, Lyanna and Rhaegar were not stupid. Reckless, perhaps, but that's not quite the same thing. Naming Jon Aegon would be a horrible move personally and politically.

It's a blatant replacement of the heir of the crown prince. It's snubbing Elia and her children in the worst way possible. I've seen the disgusting argument that Elia and her children don't matter. That it's ok to replace them because Rhaegar didn't love Elia and Rhaegar and Lyanna were True Love™. Whoever said that is super insensitive and completely misunderstood the world of the story. It's a medieval-ish world. Powerful people don't marry for love. The ones who do, like Robb on the show, ruin things with the decision not to marry for an alliance. Yes, there can be an overlap between romance and a marriage for a suitable alliance, such as Ned and Catelyn and Jon and Dany, but it's not how the nobles of Westeros view marriage. If there's love, that's very lucky, but it's not a prerequisite. Or a requirement. It's not necessary for a marriage at all. By modern standards, we know this arrangement makes people unhappy. That has nothing to do with the world the characters in this story inhabit. Applying modern views to fantasy worlds is a ridiculous way of looking at them.

I'd like to believe Rhaegar and Lyanna weren't evil, but if they named Jon Aegon, they were horrible people. I used to kinda root for Lyanna and Rhaegar. I still kinda like the book version of them, but I find it hard to like their show counterparts and we haven't even properly spent time with them. If only Gilly read that the archmaester married Prince Raggar to someone, in spite of the fact he already had a wife. They could have just as easily gone the polygamy route. That makes way more sense. Or better yet, leave Jon as a bastard. He's struggled too much with his bastard identity for the issue to magically disappear by making him a legitimate son of Lyanna and Rhaegar.

The better rumor is that Lyanna whispered the name Jaehaerys. That's way better, but not simply because it doesn't ruin the child's, Lyanna's and Rhaegar's relationship with Rhaegar's family (Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon).

Side note - Dorne and basically every noble would hate the idea of Jon being named Aegon. It's a feudal society. Peace hinges on clear inheritance. Naming the new child the same as the heir signals that succession doesn't matter. That the wives and heirs can be thrown aside without repercussion. This would mean that a marriage treaty does not guarantee anything.

Naming him Jaehaerys works better because it gives Jon yet another parallel to his true love, Daenerys. Rhaella named Dany what she did because she wanted her daughter to represent the same thing the first Daenerys did. Peace after a difficult war. The name was meant to signal to Viserys and Dany, and all their supporters, that Rhaella had a clear idea of what she wanted them to stand for: unity and peace. A just rule under a Targaryen monarch, restored to the dynasty's rightful throne.

Second side note - the first Daenerys was the wife of the ruling Prince of Dorne. Naming her baby after a Targaryen consort of Dorne implies that she wanted Viserys and Dany to be friendly with Dorne and have Sunspear's support. Rhaella must have adored Elia and Rhaenys and Aegon. She would want Dorne to always be an ally to her House.

Lyanna's husband Rhaegar and her brothers fought against each other in a war. If anyone wanted peace, it was our she-wolf. Why wouldn't she fight for peace with her dying breath? If she said Jaehaerys, it implies exactly what Dany's name implies. Peace and a brighter future. There was a well-loved Targaryen king by the name Jaehaerys. Lyanna would want her child to stand for peace. Naming him Aegon would only cause contention. Why would any Stark give her child enemies simply by giving him a name that would anger everyone in the realm? That's not the kind of people the Starks are. If Lyanna whispered a Targaryen name, Jaehaerys is the one which makes her look better. Aegon is the one which makes her and Rhaegar seem vile. But whatever the outcome, Jon will always be Jon Snow. He will always be a Stark. He will be Ice and Dany will be Fire.