#i think az needs an arc like nesta's

[acourtofthought]

@2ndsofseven is extremely clever.

This has nothing to do whether whether Lucien and Elain are mates:

We already knew they're mates, it's confirmed time and again. By Elain, by Mor, by Feyre when she slips into his mind.

Lucien already proved he knew what was wrong with Elain when he demanded they get her outside after officially meeting her the first time ever and she herself later said she needed sunshine. He proved he already knew how to help when she began drinking, sleeping, and eating after he did so.

Her powers were never something wrong with her or something amiss, nothing for him to find in her soul, they're simply her powers. A part of her that's now supposed to be there. Every single character knew Elain was talking in riddles, all Az did was name them and then Mor confirmed it. Only Lucien knew she needed to get outside to help pull her from her catatonic state. His not naming her power doesn't disprove their bond, mates don't suddenly have all the knowledge of the world simply because they're mated.

Sarah often writes lines that seem to be a discussion between two characters but are referencing other.

Take the Suriel. Feyre thought they were discussing Tamlin but their answer was later revealed to be referring to Rhys.

Or Ruhns prophecy. He thought it meant he'd die but it meant he'd destroy the royal line by killing the Autumn King.

Az's story of Nephellle was being discussed with Feyre but it ended up being meaningful for Elain's arc.

Just like Feysand discussing poorly matched bonds while talking of Elain and Lucien's bond is most likely not SJM telling us Elucien's bond will be poorly matched but someone else.

The above scene with the healer was providing us information about bonds unknown at that point. We know that Elain and Lucien are mates, there's no debating it. It's confirmed, it's scented, Mor used her truth on Lucien. In ACOWAR, however, Nessian's bond was not confirmed. Therefore when you get to this scene:

You realize Majda's words were foreshadowing for the Nessian bond.

When Sarah talks about how she likes careful, clever readers, it's her being excited when others pick up on clues (not something directly written in the text). Feyre saying "do you think Elain and Lucien match well" only for some to say "see?! It's proof Elucien aren't matched because Feyre specifically mentioned it" is not careful, clever reading. Az and Elain almost kissing and using it as proof of an e/riel endgame is not careful, clever reading. Those are examples of referencing the text directly as it applies to the exact scene in question. I think what Sarah means when she talks of careful, clever reading is picking up on things like the stars painted on Feyre's dresser and theorizing early on that she'd end up with Rhys. It's applying information learned at one point and connecting it to something elsewhere.

@2ndsofseven pulled off the sort of careful, clever reading when they realized that Majda's words were not there to make you question Elucien's bond (which has already been confirmed as being a legitimate bond) but to help you realize before SF that Nesta and Cassian were going to be mates.

Not everything in these books is about Elain and Az, information learned is meant to also be applied to the other characters in the series.

[acourtofquietdreamers]

“Elriels think Elain is perfectly okay in the NC and fully healed. They think Elain and Azriel are already in love. They think Elain is already trained to be a spy. There’s no story/conflict there.”

🙃

(Let’s ignore the fact that antis purposely misunderstand and exaggerate things Elriels say and play along with this line of thinking.)

Elain doesn’t have to be at rock bottom to have an engaging character arc. She still has room to grow, regardless of where she is in her journey. All of these characters have more room for healing. She can both enjoy her life in the Night Court and have some trauma she needs to address. Elain’s character arc doesn’t need to be focused on climbing out of a hole of self loathing and trauma like ACOSF. Her arc will likely be more focused on asserting herself, proving her capabilities, and making her own choices, regardless of other’s opinions. Elain being in a good head space in her book is necessary for this arc to occur.

Elain and Azriel can already have strong feelings for each other and still have a beautiful love story in their book where they learn more about each other and their feelings grow even deeper (please see Nessian willing to die together in ACOWAR and then having a whole book together). Elain and Azriel have the tension, chemistry, conflict, and obstacles necessary for a compelling romance. It is perfectly okay that her and Az have history and pre existing feelings.

Elain can be secretly training in stealth in ACOSF and still have more to learn in her book. There are many characters in the SJM universe that have learned skills off page and it didn’t at all take away from their story.

Elain’s story has endless potential between exploring her powers, the foreshadowed stealth lessons, the Koschei visions and potentially the visions about the Dusk Court, learning more about her friendship with Nuala and Cerridwen, learning about this other side of Elain that has been foreshadowed, seeing her navigate the mating bond with Lucien and her feelings for Azriel, mending her relationship with Nesta and Feyre, exploring if she activated Truth Teller when she stepped out of a shadow, her connection with the Cauldron etc. There is sooo much left to explore with Elain Archeron and none of it is reliant on her being knee deep in trauma. The things Elain has done behind the scenes, the progress she’s made, and the relationships she’s built thus far don’t take away from the story that will be told in her book. If anything, this backstory will only add to her book.

I will never understand this fandom’s want to repeat the same premise again and again. Elain doesn’t have to be at rock bottom, hating her life, and drowning in trauma to be worthy of a book. She doesn’t have to end up with her mate. Her story has the potential to be something new and fresh and I’m sooo excited to see where SJM takes it. The set up has the potential to produce my favorite ACOTAR book yet and I just want everyone to be excited about it 🥲

[thisisnovelty]

Do these people hear themselves?

‘Gwyn has been developed too much to be a plot device’

Wait, so was she in more than just half of the last book?? Because I must be missing something. Because it seems to me that much like Elain, we don’t know everything yet regarding her powers but we know her trauma … much like how we know elains trauma, but we also know more than that if you pay attention to the actual text in the now 3 books and a novella where we’ve been told little things about her … hinting … setting up… foreshadowing for her.

and ‘Elain hasn’t been developed enough to be the partner of the main character’ ???

BECAUSE ELAIN IS GOING TO BE THE MAIN CHARACTER IN HER BOOK.

SJM couldn’t give us everything about Elain in other people’s books since that would ruin the experience and character arc in her own book.

Also, ‘Elain hasn’t been developed enough’ you know… beyond what we know of her trauma and powers so far, and her friendships and her sense of humour and her ability to befriend anyone because she’s so lovely and warm and yet her ability to fight back and stand up for herself when it’s needed, buuuuut in half a book Gwyn is fleshed out enough to be with a main character as if HE would be the main MC anyway? When SJM herself said her books will always focus on the females journey? Ya okay

Not to mention, since ACOMAF (when Gwyn didn’t exist) SJM said she always knew there would be a nesta book and an Elain book… and then recently she said she knows who the couple is for this coming book, but the last one she doesn’t yet know and has 5 options. So since for Az it’s either Elain or Gwyn, and Gwyn didn’t exist then, and since ACOMAF Sarah wrote all those moments for Az and Elain.. it’s pretty obvious she’s intending it to be their book. And then the last book could be anyone.

If it was Elain and Lucien, SJM wouldn’t have given so many sweet moments AND a near kiss to Az and Elain if her plan had always been to stick with Lucien and Elain. And then how would there be 5 different couples to choose from in the last book as if she would leave Azriel either without an endgame or up to chance?

It’s so clearly going to be Elriel. She has done a similar foreshadowing pattern with Nesta and Cass.

Elains book was always going to be next, since she said her plan hadn’t changed since ACOMAF, AND…. Az had a bonus POV setting up for next book… kind of like wings and ember?? So since it must be elains book next and based on the BC and him being significant in the CC3 crossover (*cough* corrupted cauldron *cough*) then we could also say it’s clear the next book is Azriel.

HENCE ITS ELAIN AND AZRIELS BOOK.

And it will be a beautiful one.

(I think Elain and Lucien could maybe build a friendship and choose to have their bond be that, while they be with other people better for them, which will be beautiful also)

[violetasteracademic]

I mean, I love Lucien so much but it’s obvious that he’s not that excited about the mating bond. It feels like it was something that was imposed on him, not something that makes him happy (as it was the case for Rhys and Cassian). He even used the world “shackled”. What can be worse than that? After a while, he didn’t even care about living someplace else and not seeing her often. He knows they’re a bad match and it’s possibly questioning the Cauldron.

I love both of them and they deserve better. Sometimes I wonder if the people that believe that Elain has to be with Lucien because he’s her mate, also believe that women should stay in unhappy, miserable marriages because they see divorce as a “sin”

Hello lovely anon!

Looooong post ahead, we are gonna get into it! I agree with you completely on this. I am a pro L/cien Elriel, and always have been. My first Tumblr post was a dissertation about Vassien for goodness sake, and my excitement for their story is genuinely second to Elriel! The secret Spell-Cleaver's son and the cursed queen, the bird of flame and lord of fire, there is so much I love about them. I did an entire breakdown on the possibilities of Vassien's story using Sarah's usual book structures and all of the information we have on them, because there is so much driving them plot wise and thematically it's actually crazy.

I think that sometimes it can be really easy to miss theme while reading these books, but it is something SJM puts a lot of work into and threads throughout her stories.

I spend a LOT of time talking about my girl Elain, and even though I love the boys they are just kinda there for me as cute little accessories for our ladies. So I appreciate this opportunity to talk more about who is right for whom from the mens perspective based on the themes woven throughout the books with a focus on L/ucien and Azriel, and whether or not Elain fits into those themes. In my opinion, these are the strongest indicators of what ultimately is being subliminally pushed by authors on the road to happiness for our characters.

I'm gonna nerd out about writing for a sec, but good writing has clean character arcs. Good romance shows the blind spots or flaws of the lead characters, and how their romantic interest will balance or push the character to growth. If there are multiple love interests, one of the love interests will undoubtedly leave the main character stagnant, or perhaps fulfill some external ideals rather than following their own heart.

Here are some examples of themes when it comes to Elain and Azriel, and I'm pushing myself to focus on Azriel here and not my girlie 🌸

Here we are being introduced to the areas where Azriel has blind spots to his own personal happiness. It is nearly impossible to get Azriel to take any time for himself that doesn't't involve work or training. He rips himself to shreds for mistakes, his perfectionism bordering on sadistic.

The time he spends with Elain is a direct foil to Azriel's inability to do anything other than work or train without being pushed to the extreme by his loved ones. He chooses to sit with Elain in the garden. He chooses to stay up until three am listening to her design plans. He chooses to rest in the sunlight with her. This is a direct tie of the author stating what this character needs, and then blatantly showing who is giving it to him.

G/wyn also trains hard and is competitive and perfectionistic. It makes total sense to me that people think this is cute, however, theme wise, it is a representation of a stagnant arc. The idea that training is a foundational element to an Az and G's potential relationship actually directly parallels Azriel's greatest obstacle to happiness- which is that he cannot allow himself to rest and *not* train.

Feyre and Rhys had to teach each other to share burdens, though it was extremely difficult. Cassian had to teach Nesta how to forgive herself and believe she was worthy of love. What Azriel needs is someone to help him believe he is worthy of rest and mistakes. These themes are tied to Elain.

There is also the issue of his hands and physical touch, and his feelings of worthiness.

Again, we discover that even if Morrigan, the woman he has supposedly been madly in love with for 500 years, stripped naked in front of Azriel, he still wouldn't touch her. We've also seen Morrigan cringe away from his hands. Meanwhile, Elain called his scarred hands beautiful. Elain initiated every act of touch in the bonus chapter. Elain moved so that his hand was covering her neck, and she wanted it.

Azriel fought against his feelings of disgust over his hands. He experienced intrusive thoughts about how he shouldn't be touching her with the things he has done. And yet, his feelings for her, and the feeling of touching her, was powerful enough to override the loop of self hate that tells him he is unworthy of being wanted.

So if Azriel's two themes that need to be challenged in his romantic relationship is lack of rest and lack of touch, Elain has already been pushing growth in those areas over multiple books. With G/wyn, whom he has not touched because of the strict line of professionalism with the priestesses and the only time they spent together training (which is also the thing Azriel uses to distract himself and push himself to the brink of exhaustion) thematically, for Azriel's specific needs in romantic growth, we are stagnant.

Moving on to L/cien, because there is a lot here for him as well and I believe we are being shown how Elain is also thematically the opposite of what L/cien needs.

Unlike Azriel, L/cien has experienced true, authentic, deep, consensual love. And the first thing he does when he meets Elain is compare her to the woman he loves, and frankly, he's not really understanding how someone like Elain could be his mate because she is so different from Jesminda.

L/cien is attracted to wildness, mischief and laughter. Someone who loved him not because of his status or stature, but choosing him for who he was. This is never going to be possible with Elain. L/cien's status as a High Lord's son plays a huge role in Rhys not wanting Azriel to interfere with their relationship. At this point, even if Azriel never pursues Elain again, that is the reason why. The Blood Duel, and L/ucien's status as a High Lord's son. If L/ucien were not these things, Rhys never would have interrupted their kiss. So even if Elain *chooses* L/cien in the end, it will never have been without question. It will never be untangled with this status as a High Lord's son, and it will never be because they weren't mates first before falling in love. In Lucien's monologue about Jesminda, we learn that the mating bond is not the ideal way for L/cien to fall in love either. With all his trauma and abuse and lack of choice in his own life, he both wants and deserves to be loved without question. This will absolutely never be true with Elain, no matter how their story develops.

Lucien desires to be chosen away from High Fae culture and societal expectations. We also see how he is drawn to things wild and free, who says to hell with all of it. I'm choosing who I love and how I show up in this world.

And then we meet the human queen Vassa.

A foul mouthed, foul tempered queen who Lucien warns Feyre of right away that she will corner her to ask for help breaking her curse (which she absolutely does 🤣)

In the same book where Lucien can't help but compare Elain to the fiery love of his life, and feel Elain was thrown at him, he winds up on an adventure with a literal firebird queen with the attitude and energy to match. Perhaps someone who could taunt and tease Lucien within an inch of his life?

Thematically, Lucien has also struggled with the concept of home. He has bounced from court to court, facing different forms of abuse and control. He has never been truly free or comfortable anywhere he has lived. And he doesn't feel truly free or comfortable in Velaris. In fact, he can't stand it.

This is similar to what happened with Jesminda and the Autumn court. Her people no longer welcome Lucien because they believe he is responsible for what happened to her. Lucien doesn't want to return to Tamlin, but Spring was his home, and now he can't return there either because those outside of the high lords manor hate him for believing him being complicit.

Lucien and Vassa are also tied thematically through themes of manipulation and two faced people selling them out.

Which again, brings us full circle to L/ucien's theme of passivity. He believes he did not protect Jesminda. That her death was a betrayal of trust. This is a deep wound that needs healing.

Meanwhile, when it comes to Elain, he has maintained a passive stance. He is always telling others to get her back, or take her here, or do this. But if something were to happen to her, he never would have been the one to step in and stop it. He is repeating his passive behavior with Elain, beyond simply staying away from her. The theme is rooted much more deeply than that. It is tied to his past traumas and failures.

Meanwhile, when it comes to Vassa, he stares out to sea and sets a target on Koschei.

Elain is not going to be the one to shake L/ucien out of passivity and into action. Vassa is. And my understanding is that even E/ucien's believe this is true, they just assume Elain will be required for some reason. But what the E/ucien version of saving Vassa lacks is thematic resolution. Character arc and growth. L/cien's love interest being the foil to his passivity. Forcing Elain into the saving Vassa storyline makes it less of an emotional growth arc for all characters involved.

So no, I don't think Elain is right for L/cien, and I don't think L/cien thinks she is either. He is going to have to step up and fight for his woman. He has to face ghosts haunting him, and the fact that he didn't protect the woman he loves in the past. He is showing no protective, proactive behavior towards Elain. He *is* showing protective, proactive behavior with Vassa.

Azriel is not showing the ability to find peace and rest and breaks from work and training with G/wyn. He *is* showing the ability to find peace and rest and breaks from training with Elain. He is not showing an ability to let his hands touch someone's skin and work through the traumatic feelings that can bring up with G/wyn. He *is* experiencing that with Elain.

Obviously Elain's choice is theme, and we all know where that is headed. But it IS worthwhile to (occasionally 😝) pay attention to the men and their deeper traumas, threads and themes, and look at where the work of storytelling is already healing those things as opposed to putting the emotional labor on the women of the story to magically fix their men in their future books.

Phew, this wound up being a lot longer than I intended for it to be! I also agree that there are a lot of women projecting an incredible amount of internalized misogyny and frankly the least woman first takes I have ever seen in this fandom. It's disheartening and bizarre, especially when there is so much fantasy written by men where women solely exist to get r/aped or fill the needs of men. We should be celebrating stories written by women and for women, and appreciate authors who push against the societal norms of the roles women play in fantasy books and in real life.

[unhealthyfanobsession]

I have my complaints about SJM but one thing she KNOWS how to do is write pining between side characters that makes your heart clench.

She knows how to write a bonus chapter where a man wants a woman he isn’t supposed to have and make that sexy rather than weird as hell, entitled and creepy.

She is not a master of subtlety when it comes to symbolism or the use of the phrase “for whatever reason”

Genuinely not trying to crush anyone’s dreams but if Elriel was happening that bonus chapter would have been so, so different.

You’re telling me that Az is told to stay away and not ONCE does he say or even think, “I can’t.” Not once does he think “damn the consequences.” Since when has Azriel, of all people, listened to Rhys? What happened to chain me to a tree?

Boy just flies right off to help a different woman achieve her main objective in the book and think about glowing light and singing and secret lovely beauty?

Also Elain hasn’t been fleshed out enough to get a main character arc yet - she needs at least one more book in the background, we saw the first sparks in ACOSF but just like Nesta taking on a bigger plot role in ACOWAR and then ACOFAS revolving around more or less what would become the plot of ACOSF … there needs to be more there.

I’m not tagging this Elriel so don’t come for me just an honest opinion

[emmitaaa4]

Addressing some fandom BS inconsistencies

Gwyn was shadow mommy, Az was shadow daddy, they were gonna have shadow babies with her extra super pliable bones.

I audibly chocked when I read this @nikethestatue (btw everything said in this post was on point). No but seriously this is how they sound, too many of them insisting that there is nothing wrong with basing the likelihood of a ship on who has the more suitable uterus to be with a man... cause supposedly they're just picking up on the hints SJM wrote for them? She likes babies for HEAs so ofc children are the end all be all of a relationship, plus there's absolutely no way that she could ever write an adoption plot SJM is literally adopted and has done it in other series. Selective reading strikes again.

A minimum amount of critical thinking would tell you that 1) the infamous *magical uterus change* scene was about nessian (& feysand), not about any ship; 2) if SJM had written Nesta changing Elain's uterus, it would have given too much away, not to mention 3) how disturbing/violating it would have been for Nesta to change her sister's reproductive anatomy WITHOUT HER CONSENT?! None of it makes sense narratively; my girl Nes would never, especially given the trauma they both suffered from having their bodily autonomy--and so much more--ripped away by the Cauldron.

This argument is so trivialized that I see it every other day on reddit/tiktok/*insert media app*, and yet elriels are the toxic side of the fandom? The ones whom people are allowed to insult, to ridicule for theories all made in good fun, the women that are villainized over a difference of opinion? Don't get me wrong, there's assholes on both sides and people keep calling one another variations of delulu (and the nastier personal attacks). But by painting this fandom-wide villain there is such a lack of accountability for the plethora of harmful talking points spread by other portions of the fandom. (I've been silently reading the anti-elain & anti-elriel tags for like a year, and I'm on tiktok. Yes, I have self-destructive tendencies).

Anyways.

I never understood either how people ever actually thought (or well still think) that gwynriel would happen BEFORE elucien?? It makes no sense logically, narratively, or in terms of characterization & the arc she's set up for Elain, Azriel, and Lucien. Yet it took one controversial bonus chapter for people to decenter Elain in her own story, that is make her choice of romantic partner--which SJM spent 3+ books setting up--Azriel's. It took one bonus chapter that soo many readers are still unaware of, to brush Elain off as a "sexual object" Az is using to distract himself until his therapist-extraordinaire Gwyn comes in and heals him all up. Because ofc she will: she's badass and not the "passive and weak and boring" Eplain (aka "Plant" or "brain dead gardener"), she fits the YA archetype of the spunky warrior-girl so she can handle his darkness, and SJM supposedly spent time fleshing her out because she wrote her as a LI for Azriel; she's made for him, she is what he needs to grow (I actually enjoyed Gwyn's character btw, just pointing out how silly it all sounds). “Next book is a love triangle between Elain/Az/Gwyn” “Elain will turn evil or is secretly evil”. So you're telling me that SJM would pit Elain & Gwyn against each other in a love triangle over a man... all because of a necklace that was not even mentioned once in the actual books? Please, let's be logical for a second.

All this because instead of reading the bonus chapter in the context of the books, some people are reading the books in the context of the bonus chapter. Which now that I think of it is probably why so many people mischaracterize Az the way they do--because yes we know enough of his character to know half of the stuff the fandom diagnoses him with is questionable. Azriel? Entitled incel x fuckboy hybrid (gotta be the first of his kind, minute slay ig)? Interesting tell me more. No joke I saw a semi-popular post on here where a gwynriel said they read the bonus WITHOUT HAVING READ ANY OF THE BOOKS. I'm sorry, ship wars are silly and believe it or not idc who ppl ship, but it makes it hard to take some of the things they say seriously.

All this to say that the fandom isn't even debating the right thing. If you consider everything SJM has said in her interviews:

(she's been planting seeds for Nesta & Elain's book since acomaf; she knows who she is writing the first 2 books about + is keeping things open for the 3rd one--with 5 different ship options--which automatically rules out "Elain will close the series"; she said she's doing research for Elain's book in the ACOFAS bonus & there's seeds for future bookS in acofas; all she said recently about her beloved *heroines* and the themes of fate/true love/choice she finds *very* interesting & wants to discuss)

and if you also consider all she's written in the actual books (elain's characterization + the overarching plot in general & how she fits into it), then it's pretty evident that Elain's book is next.

The question then would be who is the MMC / 2nd PoV in her book, aka would acotar 5 be an elucien or an elriel story? Because logically, gwynriel was always a consequence of elucien. I honestly do not understand how people don't see that.

Oh and they always think they're gagging elriels with the "obviously Azriel is the next MC" as if elriels aren't saying the same thing? And we're the ones twisting info and not making sense. It's just funny at this point.

---sidenote: I realize that this post generalizes some things, and I just wanted to say that I have interacted with lovely eluciens / people on either side of this headache of a ship war. My hard limit is Elain haters though... back off I say 🤺 BACK OFF 🤺

---sidenote 2: I would have written this as a reblog except im not entirely sure how tumblr works and I get no visibility from them rip.

[valentiinexo]

I feel like Azriels bonus chapter was so misunderstood by most of the fandom. Especially with Az shadows disappearing with Elain but singing with Gwyn and the fact that people say he only lust for her makes me extremely confused because HOW? I dont really vibe with az and gwyn, like they would be cute but itll just be the same as acosf now that I realize it. and I dont really think Elain is boring, we barely know about her yet and I feel like not all girls have to be warriors, we need something different than what we always get.

welcome to the elain lovers safe space 🫶🏼

as someone who has never been able to relate to the feyres and nestas of fantasy, elain is the ultimate comfort character. and i sincerely don’t mean that in a negative way towards either of them! i’ve just always been a passive, appeasing, non confrontational, people pleaser. in a fight or flight situation im literally always going to pick freeze and fawn. my point in all that is, those are characteristics we so rarely see in fantasy fmcs, elains pov is going to be a breath of fresh air. her arc has such incredible potential to really resonate with and empower the softer girls of the world. like sarah has said, her strength is so different from her sisters in that it comes from always choosing to be kind and loving no matter the challenges she’s facing. i can’t wait to see her in full bloom ✨

as for the bonus chapter, it’s incredibly misunderstood. there are so many things i could say about it, but there are elriels out there who have voiced those same thoughts much more eloquently than i ever could. it’s so clear that he has feelings for elain, but isn’t allowing himself to process those feelings becuase of the whole… everything. it’s been said before that he’s got too many issues with self loathing to be with elain, but you don’t need to be perfect to be loved. and i think despite how much everyone insists he’s obsessed with having a bond, there’s nothing he would cherish more than being told fuck the cauldron, fuck fate, i choose you becuase i love you. and that just brings tears to my eyes 🥹

anyway thank you for listening to my very long ramble, there’s nothing i love more than getting to discuss those two!

[edanmaia]

hofas spoilers below; my random thoughts based on my shoddy translation (very acotar-centric)

lidia having kids is WILD. and ruhn's character really pivoted from frat boy to adult man...

the book was 800+ pages and yet so little happened

character motivations, character arcs, and whatnot were very surface level

I dont think nesta actually lost her ability to wield the trove?

azriel azriel azriel wow what an observant man 😊 we've never seen him talk this much

the one elain and gwyn mention made me giggle

DUSK COURT / PRISON !!! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR BOOK 5

language translation pill is weird...

rhysand's sister mention?????? so fucking random

i need to think about how this ties into the next acotar book

The ending wasn't satisfying but it wasn't unsatisfying

i'm guessing the bryce / az / nesta bonus scene is about cellphones and them taking pictures

ember / randall bonus scene will be feysand and some nessian & azriel

the ruhn lidia bonus chapter was just an extended HEA.

sexual assault... there's a decent amount... and it's kinda brushed over

where tf is mor LMAO

the cauldron was wrong... it's also corrupt... mmm m mating bonds chosen by the mother vs by the cauldron????

no rhys/ruhn look alike explanation 😭

that ending made it seem like there wouldn't be a cc4 but maybe a novella similar to acofas?

i feel like she really toned down the sex scenes, which i am so grateful for. it gives me hope that acotar 5 will have a good plot.

high king plot wont happen. bryce abolished the monarchy... so will rhysand if he became high king

will elain use the orb Bryce used to share her visions?

[theshadowsingersraven]

Analyzing Blodeuwedd and What it May Mean for Elain's Character Arc/Romantic Journey (mainly Elucien)

Many people have attributed Blodeuwedd to Elain’s arc, as SJM had supposedly pinned it to her Pinterest before it was taken down and labeled it "Elain." And, generally speaking, it does seem to fit her.

Flower face? Elain is known to be beautiful and associated with flowers. Additionally, she's tied to a man by forces of magic beyond her control and is shown to want a man different than the one the magic forces designated for her. Lleu also means "light," similar to how Lucien means light. I've also seen people cite that the name Lleu itself translates to Lucien.

Now, here's what it gets interesting and parallels to Elain-Lucien-Azriel really come into play.

So, many people assume that Gronw Pebr is Azriel in this situation. Especially because of the whole Blood Duel debacle being a possible outcome. But I want to pose something different. Because here's what's said about Gronw on his own page.

An antagonist.

Now, to be clear, this isn't really a grand love story between Blodeuwedd and Gronw. It's almost comparable to Romeo and Juliet, but the main difference is that the antagonists in Romeo and Juliet are the families. The families are the ones who the narrative blames for them taking their lives. But thar doesn't appear to be the case with Blodeuwedd. Because here's what happens next:

Blodeuwedd and Gronw are blamed by the narrative. Gwydion (notice something familiar about that name? The ancient sword of Fionn? The Starsword?) punishes Blodeuwedd and turns her into an owl. (I don't anticipate this to be literal in the retelling.)

And then the last of the tale is below:

So, what does this all mean?

Incorporating SJM's hint that the next book will feature a betrayal, I think it's very possible that the traitor is Elain, but under specific circumstances. Again, assuming that SJM does maintain her statement about there being a betrayal. Especially because I personally don't see SJM killing off Azriel for trying to kill Lucien. As much as I want Az to get his desperately needed reality check, I definitely don't want him to die.

Hear me out:

What if "Gronw" is an emissary/ally of Koschei instead of Azriel?

Thinking of it this way, it's possible that SJM's adaptation would also tie in Swan Lake and the Death of Koschei the Deathless all in one.

In ACOSF, Cassian notes that no one really knows where Elain goes and that he believes her to be lying at one point when she says she's going to help an elderly faerie with her garden.

Given that the Suriel was aware of Elain scrying for him in WAR, I wonder if something similar could occur with her seeing Koschei? Or perhaps she scries in either the early part of her book or the novella should SJM decide to put a break between SF and the next novel, and that might be how we can get a more direct tie between them.

Either way, I don't think it's a coincidence that Gwydion from this tale is also the same origin name of the Starsword. Perhaps if Elain is magically manipulated in some way, Gwydion could be wielded to destroy that manipulation. Or Gwydion might be used to reveal "Gronw" as an owl/emissary of Koschei instead of "Blodeuwedd"/Elain being turned into an owl. Perhaps this "owl" could also be a reference to Maeve?

Maybe Lucien and Nesta work together to free Elain from this manipulation, thus how Gwydion as a sword could come into play. I also wouldn't be surprised that if this is the direction SJM takes, it could result in Elain being "punished"/monitored to ensure that there's no further manipulations still affecting her.

And since Madja even says that a mate will know what's wrong, maybe Lucien is included in that monitoring (especially if there was an attempt on his life)? Maybe she's put with him in a forced proximity way, like at the Band of Exiles' manor, and she spends time around humans and starts to heal the part of her that grieves her humanity. Maybe her "monitoring" is also focused on healing, and since Elain would have access to the world around her, unlike in the House of Wind, she might make her way to Spring as many have expected her to end up.

And maybe this might be where Vassa is called back to Koschei’s lake, though maybe not necessarily resolved fully in this book? Or maybe it could be, who knows!

I know very well that SJM doesn't do entirely faithful/one-to-one retellings, so who knows how it'll play out. However, I do find it interesting that this isn't the love story a lot of people seemed to expect for E/riel both on here and on Reddit. I don't see her turning Elain and/or Azriel into truly malicious antagonists. But that's also just me!

Let me know your thoughts. I'm also heavily biased towards Elucien, so def keep that in mind!

[divinerivals]

I don’t think Nesta will have another book of her own, but I do think that if Azriel’s book is next, then it would make complete sense for her to feature heavily in it! I think Az’s book – based on SF & HOFAS – will involve Illyria, and Ramiel, and the Valkyries, so Nesta would definitely be in it a lot! Idk if it’ll involve Autumn Court or the mortal queens, to set up Elucien’s book, but who knows. I’m still excited and a little nervous!

Oh same nonnie! I was talking to a friend about this and think that it could be an Az book with a Gwyn romance and still have Nesta’s journey in it. Especially since Truth Teller and Gwydion/starsword go in hand and hand. Nesta could absolutely have a side plot in his book and it make sense.

I think Az's book will deal overcoming his Illyrain hatred, learning more of Enalius, Illyria, and find out exactly what he can do with Truth Teller. It can also connect to the Valkyries by extension of training them, Nesta and Gwyn. Speaking of Gwyn he'd have his romance with her. I think a goodway of them getting together is by researching and using the library to find information on Illyria and Enalius.

Ramiel I'm conflicted on. I can see it dealing with Az. But at the same time each Archeron sister had a mountain to deal with it. With one sister left and one mountain left...

And the Autumn Court is another thing I think is up in the air. On one hand, we think Autumn Court and immediately think of a Lucien connection with Eris and Beron. Cause Lucien is thought of Elain is. I've been thinking alot about the Autumn Court plot because the last moment we see Eris and Cassian in acosf seems like this is a precedent and needs to be addressed quickly. Just as this could fit into an Elucien book. Plotwise I think it could work in an Az book.

Hear me out: Eris has been working with the IC, he's been working with Az (😏) and Cassian. Getting Beron out and Eris in as High Lord is a deal made with Rhys. There's also whatever went down with Mor. Alot of the Autumn Court stuff is attached to Eris not Lucien. It would make sense if this arc is continued and possibly solved in an Az centric book.

For Elain and Lucien, I too think their story will revolve around the Mortal Queens, Koschei, but also the theme of choice, Vassa's curse and perhaps the Spring Court. Oh and that little thing Lucien doesn't know about his parentage. I do think that if Koschei is to be the big bad then Elain next would make sense too because we don't know anything really about him and for him being the big bad seems strange. What are we gonna learn about and defeat him in one book? Possible but not sjms M.O.

It's always, always possible to have Az's book next and find that Koschei is somehow connected to Enalius/Illyrians that would bring us back to Elain and the final book. There's just so many possibilities

[romanticatheartt]

I’m pretty new to the fandom but am I the only one who doesn’t think Feyre’s been sidelined? We had 4 books of her as the only or main POV where the series very obviously resolved around her then one spinoff book where she’s not the main character but feysand are clearly the next most prominent characters in the book after nessian and even though the pregnancy plot isn’t well liked, it doesn’t change the fact that so much of nesta’s healing arc and the kickoff of her journey, the rock bottom, and climax of it in book revolve around her relationship with feyre. We even see feyre having so high lady moments even though nesta is avoiding her for parts.

And then I thought given the story that sjm ended up writing for CC3, it’s obvious why feyre isn’t there- she wanted Bryce to use the mask and needed nesta to give it to her and for Bryce to be skeptical of prythian. Feyre is not born fae, ruler of NC, and less prickly then both Az and Nesta (and Amren and Rhys even), she’d hurt the distrusting conflict and wouldn’t give the mask like nesta without getting more involved (at least involving Rhys). I suspect sjm wanted a different plot at first but decided to change it and maybe it’s because she didn’t want the acotar side to take over (Bryce even considers asking Rhys for help because he’s so strong but decides against it because she can’t trust him not to become a conqueror). I thought it was purposeful that the friendliest members of the IC were basically absent. She may even be saving aspects of that original plot for a larger team up later, maybe in an acotar book since prythian’s (and Feyre/Rhys/the high lord’s) power is given such focus. It’s not even an acotar book, like should Az’s greater presence in it be seen as a sign that he’s more important than Rhys in acotar?

If the next book comes out and feyre is just not a factor, I’d get it more. But I just don’t see what’s got everyone convinced sjm isn’t interested in feyre or whatever.

People talking about Feyre being sidelined in acosf are just looking for something to hate lol because even I knew Feyre wasn't going to be the main character when sjm made pretty clear this is Nesta's/Nessian's book. Feyre doesn't even have a pov in acosf ffs (except that bonus chapter) and still, she has an important role in Nesta's book because she's the biggest part of Nesta's guilt and self-hatred. And yes in my recent semi-reread of acosf there are so many times that we see Feyre as High Lady (and I absolutely love those!!)

Like you said I'm not too fond of Feyre's pregnancy plot either and I think it shouldn't have been in Nesta's book and it definitely shouldn't have been used as a redemption arc for Nesta. In other words, both Nesta and Feyre deserved better than this. Feyre deserved a beautiful pregnancy after all she's been through and Nesta deserved a better journey where other characters weren't used for her, the focus should've been on her and her relationship with others.

Now about CC I was one of those people who wanted to see more Feyre and were disappointed. Not because I think she was sidelined, no. But because I expected to see her at least in one scene? I mean it could be totally because of my love Feyre that I wanted to see her again, that's my only disappointment and not because I think she should've had a big role or something.

I expected Nesta to have some major role in CC (not this much tho) and for Azriel, I fully anticipated him to be an important character because of Truthteller and Bryce bringing Starsword with her. I still think sjm focused on these two a lot because even after CC people are more focused on acotar characters than the CC characters. And if Feyre had joined the focus of readers would've completely been on acotar so now after 7 months I think sjm did the right thing. Feyre being a mother is a nasty way for the fandom to talk about their displeasure and bring down Feyre for being a mother which isn't surprising at all since everyone thinks she's now "less cool" because of it.

Now about Azriel, I don't think he's more important than Rhys (call me biased idc lmao😭 and my beef with him) I think the reason why he's so focused on, is because he's going to have the next book. We're going to see his back story and how he's possessing TT and who is going to possess Starsword (and as I said before I think it's going to be Gwyn and she's going to be a Starborn because we have no idea who her father is so sjm can put anyone as her father) and I know some think Azriel is the Starborn and I THINK NOT!!! Idk how to explain it, I just know he's not hehe :D

I think Feyre is still going to be in the next books because she's the main character of the series and she's still a high lady after all, but it will be something like acosf. And I think she's going to have a same amount of page time (lol) in Elucien book like she had in acosf.

[acourtofthought]

To me, Nesta's story was focused on her learning to love, to let go of the anger she had in order to let others in and to love herself.

I feel like Elain's story is the opposite of that. Her entire arc so far has been love above all else. Where she chose not to want anything for herself outside of falling in love and becoming someone's wife and when that failed she once again focused on a guy as a distraction rather than focusing on her growth and needs.

After Graysen and Az's rejections, I think the start of Elain's story will be her showing that she's now focused on putting the lands and people first (we had glimpses of her doing exactly that in SF). Where she finally wants to devote her energy to learning her powers and helping others. Nesta started SF having removed herself from the IC and the duties she once agreed to but I could see Elain's book beginning with her taking charge and telling them she wants to go to Spring to see the state of things, go to Day to research Seers and washing her hands of men / males.

Of course these are romance books with a dual POV so there is going to be a love story with a HEA. However, I think it would be an exciting way for Sarah to kick off her story, where Elain is a bit jaded by the previous romantic interests she's had and puts her focus on what she can accomplish on her own but the longer she spends time around Lucien the less she's able to hold on to that anger. Where in the end we'll see her admitting that he's the only one who never let her down and believed in her all along.

[nikethestatue]

I've been trying to make sense of the Az-Mor-Cassian situation (now also involving Nesta and Elain) for ages and I can't comprehend it. But I think you're right on the money with sjm giving some of Mor's attributes to Nesta as Cassian's LI. Changing Nesta's mate from Lucien to Cassian probably made Mor a bit redundant to the romance aspect and overall plot.

I think what had happened with ACOTAR in general is that SJM had a story in mind, up through ACOMAF. I feel like what she planned to do was write ACOTAR, then ACOMAF and ACOWAR might have been part of ACOMAF. Once the sisters' books were signed for, then she needed to integrate them way more into the storylines.

I think there are two characters she doesn't know what to do with and that's Mor and Lucien. They were supposed to have played different roles--that's obvious. Funny that she retconned BOTH in ACOWAR, and then sent them both on their merry way, because they weren't interesting to her anymore. Like Mor barely exists outside of Cassian/Az dynamic.

what she should've done, honestly, was she should've killed Mor in ACOWAR. Instead of the whole messy 'coming out' to Feyre and the nonsense with the guys, plus Helion, she should've given her a heroic ending a la The Thirteen. Instead, now Mor is one of the most hated characters in the series for no fault of her own really. OR, since SJM is unable to kill anyone, she should've paired Mor and Helion romantically.

Furthermore, instead of making Mor bi, and then doing nothing with it, SJM should've paired up Lucien and Tamlin romantically. They'd both get their redemption arcs, fix up Spring and live HEA.

But, we are 5.5 books in and Cassian is still pining for Mor and willing to play buffer....WTF

[pellucid-constellations]

To be fair, I don't think anyone can imagine themselves in Nesta's position even if they have siblings. Everyone says they can't imagine not going and giving everything to their siblings, but that's because there's always an abundance to give and in this modern time until there's an apocalypse, there's no need to hunt for food/water with the chance of dying. People have sympathsize and emphasize, but unless you're in actual poverty, there's no way for anyone to 'imagine' what it's truly like.

Anyway, I thought Nesta was a b*tch too and none of her behaviour is excused, even after reading ACOSF. But I think the point of the book was not to excuse her behaviour but to get context of her thoughts/motivations and her perspective of the environment she was raised in to understand her behaviour. The bonus was watching her character arc come to a peak where she wants to adone and be better. I'm hoping your degree and aspirations as a psychologist will have more insights if you decide to finish reading it!

To me, she's coded as those terrible characters who have or could have a redemption arc (zuko, draco, etc).

But I also attribute some of these problems to SJM's writing. I heard somewhere she hadn't really planned on making Nesta such a big character but then changed her direction. I kind of feel like for the ACOTAR series, SJM doesn't plan as far ahead and just does what she wants as it goes 😭 i don't like the direction she's taking with Azriel and would like to respectfully ignore it.

Yes, I completely agree! I also can’t imagine myself getting thrown into a cauldron and turned into fae so all of my opinions are with a grain of salt!! I think where I have some discrepancies is just in the difficulties in my upbringing and how that made me more protective of my siblings. But this is a work of fiction! And fantasy no less.

But I’m very glad silver flames gave insight and showed growth in Nesta!! I think her wanting to be better is the one thing that doesn’t make me completely give up on the book (and I’ve picked it up about 10 times at the point 😅). I know I need to actually read it to see that change, but as you mentioned I think this is a sjm problem.

It would honestly make so much sense for sjm to not have had this planned out 😭 I feel like if Nesta had been her plan from the start, maybe it would be easier for me to read!! Maybe she would have done a little bit to explain her motives more so that I could get excited for her book!! Because going into it is tough.

But yeah agree with Az 😔😔

[velarisvalkyrie]

HOFAS Spoilers: What I Liked vs What I Didn't

Disclaimer: I just need someone to process this with. Usually, I enjoy my entertainment quietly and don't feel the need to make public posts but I need someone to process this book with lol. Anything you disagree with me about is 100% okay!!! I'm not one to argue or put down opinions in fandoms. I'm just curious if anyone else is sharing similiar feelings as me.

What I Did Enjoy:

Bryce flicking peas down to the beasts below her holding cell. It was so on brand of her and funny to me.

Bryce having to explain what a cell phone was.

Nesta and Azriel's friendship. I know this is a CC book and I won't dwell too much on the ACOTAR crossover. However, Nesta and Azriel's friendship has always been one of my favorites and there were sooo many cute moments between them. That hug after she uses the mask??? That hug and him stroking her hair broke something in me then hit the repair button.

Bryce really snatched Az's favorite kitchen knife and jumped in a crystal coffin back home. Iconic.

Hunt, Baxian and Ruhn holding onto their brotherhood in the dungeons through humor. Trying to keep one another from breaking. Acknowledging one another in the darkest of times they endured together. They really tried so hard to keep each other from losing all hope.

Hunt thinking of Bryce to keep moving onward. Thinking of how she brought him so much joy. Calling her his mate and his wife and his princess (I love terms of endearment so personally stuff like this sends me melting).

Hunt calling Bryce his best friend :c

Lidia saving the boys like the badass that she is and doing it with a well thought out plan coordinated with Dec and Flynn and all those lovely sprites.

Confirmation that Lidia is related to Aelin. I sobbed. I already expected it but when I got to that chapter of the book I started sobbing uncontrolllably. Aelin would be so proud of Lidia for working to bring the Asteri down by any means necessary and protecting who she loves and cares for so deeply.

Sprites. No explanation needed.

I really liked Flynn this book!!! I saw a side of him that I did not get to see much of in HOEAB or HOSAB. Flynn was really considerate, protective, and remained mindful of circumstances and adapted to them.

Dec deserves several awards for his hacking skills.

Hunt's Daddies lol what a fascinating concept of Hunt also essentially being "Made" and coming from Hel

JESIBA 😭 Jesiba and her love for Bryce and her respect and just - I cried so much because Jesiba always knew what Bryce needed. She was tough love and really kept Bryce moving forward after Danika died. So for Jesiba to step up and finally be at peace while also saving Bryce was so emotional to me.

Ruhn and Lidia finally having that beer together.

Baxian in a panic cuz flying horses lol

Bryce getting to see her real life JJ - I would also be thrilled to see flying horses.

What I Did Not Enjoy:

Tharion's entire storyline irritated me. I'm sorry to Tharion fans but I just could not find it in myself to connect to his storyline in this book. His inability to make a decision and face the consequences had me grinding my teeth especially if his actions put other people in danger.

Bryce vs Nesta and Azriel. While I love all three of these characters, I did not love all of them together when it became very apparent nothing good was coming from their meeting. Both sides were valid in not fully trusting one another but it really felt as though Bryce was written as the excuse to expose Az and Nesta to new information. Like it all felt very strange.

Ithan and Sigrid. Why introduce Sigrid at all only for her to be killed so quickly??? She was built up to be this key role that would change everything for the wolf shifters but ends up dead by the end of Part 1. Also Ithan didn't truly have a well rounded character arc to me. It was very much: Ithan makes poorly thought out choice. Ithan doesn't like the outcome. Ithan feels heavy guilt. Ithan tries to fix it. Ithan makes a larger mess. Ithan makes poorly thought out choice - like it was the same loop until somehow he is the new Prime ????? How is he going to make wise choices and assert leadership over an entire pack when he can't even do so for himself.

Bryce dismissing Hunt's trauma. I understand a lot was going on and she needed him focused but like Hunt, Baxian and Ruhn were put through a lot of pain. The physical torture was brutal. The mental exhaustion of trying not to let your mind shatter from such torment had to be hard. Trying to keep your emotions from getting the best of you. And yet Bryce wanted him to just move on and do what she needed asap. She could have at least told him that she knows he is hurting and she wants to provide her support and proper attention when they are in the right circumstances that she can offer it. When they aren't being chased down or fighting enemies or surrounded by their friends.

Everyone moving on way too quickly from Hunt, Baxian and Ruhn being in those dungeons. They siffered a lot and everyone moved on so fast as if they weren't carrying some heavy shit on their shoulders and in their thoughts.

Characters thinking about sex so often amongst all the stress, battle, and life altering decision making. Like ? We are in a very important part of this journey. A huge battle is on the rise and lives are at risks and somehow all of you are thinking this much about being with your partners? That is so unrealistic. There is a time and place for that type of intimacy and connection with your special person and SJM wrote those moments in the strangest circumstances and places that it became annoying.

Bryce and her attitude toward the Fae. I was very disappointed im the way Bryce generalized all of the Fae and was considering not doing anything for them after defeating the Asteri. It took away from some of her potential character growth and as much as she hates the Fae she is half Fae herself and there are others like her who need someone in their corner. Her whole conversation with Flynn's sister where she goes on and on about how awful Fae are and they don't deserve to be united really turned me off. I know Bryce had terrible experiences but to generalize everyone because of those experiences and consider doing nothing when she could start the chain reaction toward positive change for the Fae who want to do better and be better was a turn off. I found myself not liking her a lot through the story which is sad cuz I liked Bryce in the previous 2 books so much but in HOFAS she kept disappointing me with some of her thoughts and emotions. It was like she was stunting her own character growth.

Lidia having kids. Why? Why does everyone need children? I don't say that hatefully either! Personally, I love children and I also support anyone's choice to have kids or not to have kids. However, there was no real reason to throw in twins to Lidia's storyline. I don't see how that progresses the plot and it almost felt like writing that she is a mother is a security blanket to make others feel more comfortable with the choices she made when she was The Hind. I'll be so honest, if Lidia just flat out admitted she always intended to be a double agent or she just realized how bad the system was I would have accepted that. Having this plot twist of having twins had me tilting my head.

Did anyone else feel like Lidia became more withdrawn and started leaning into stereotypical traits? Am I the only one who felt like her character in HOFAS was vastly different than how we saw her as Daybright in HOSAB?

Autumn King. I didn't need him to have redemption but it is strange to have scattered a few hints in HOEAB and in HOSAB and even in HOFAS that perhaps the Autumn King cared about his kids at some level and that he had some regrets with Bryce and Ember only for him to be the absolute worst. Personally, just keep him a consistent villian. I already didn't like him for how he abused Ruhn and Bryce, but there were small moments where SJM had me thinking: ... maybe this is an act? Maybe he cares and thinks he is preparing them for the way they may be treated by enemies in the only way he knows how? No! Nope! He was just as awful as I initially thought.

Tharion's marriage. Sooooooo out of nowhere. I couldn't even root for them because the whole time I was thinking about how Tharion had the River Queen, Ocean Queen and Viper Queen all wanting his ass handed to them on a silver tray, fins and all. Like ??? And you just married this girl without considering your enemies might hear the news and snatch her up as a way to play on your guilt, hero complex, and impulse. Like I'll root for this couple when Tharion is less foolish.

[kuno-chan]

Clotho is One of the Fates - Another Case for Gwynriel

I know a lot of people think Elriel is endgame, but I don't think people realize that Azriel gives the necklace to Clotho. Who is, in our real world, one of the 3 fates. She is the spinner of the thread of life.

Azriel gives the necklace to Clotho to give to Gwyn whose shadows relax and sing with and Clotho asks Azriel if he wants her to tell Gwyn it's from him. He doesn't, but Clotho aka THE SPINNER OF LIFE, decides to tell Gwyn it's from a friend.

Azriel also is adamant that he more or less deserves (effectively, this is his mindset) Elain because Cassian and Rhysand got the other two Archeron sisters. Azriel also wanted Mor.

Azrial always pines after what he can't have.

Narratively speaking, Azriel isn't going to be rewarded with what he wants so bad the same way because he actually thinks she might have been meant for him due to an idea of fate. Which is not dissimilar to the idea that Elain being with Lucien would be obeying fate. Plus, he's not really over Mor. Azriel doesn't answer Rhysand when Rhys asks Az about that.

If anything, Elain is something to pursue (genuinely, he likes her, no doubt about that) besides Mor who does not return his feelings. Mor isn't an option. Elain is an option. One he genuinely likes, cares for and lusts over, but an option nonetheless.

Being with Elain doesn't teach Azriel anything. It doesn't actually help his arc in any way. Because he gets what he pines after for. He gets what he wants. Not what he needs.

Nesta and Cassian had to learn to love themselves enough and heal enough to let them have what they each wanted: each other, something they resisted. Feyre and Rhysand had to help each other in a similar way. Neither pairing thought it was really fate (except Rhys who knew she was his mate but acted against it so Feyre could choose).

Azriel genuinely thinks it could be fate that Elain is meant for him. Meanwhile, Clotho, the literal spinner of fate, is trying to get Azriel to be intentional about gifting something to Gwyn non-anonymously.